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vanveronicango · 4 years

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if you don't mind me asking, what aspects of s2 did you dislike? bc for me, although i liked it a lot better than s1 (mainly for the increased focus on sibling dynamic scenes). i also kind of realized that it had kind of a Lot going on, that although i appreciated, didn't get enough equal attention? idk

i agree that the dynamic scenes this season were pretty great. we got some great interactions between characters that didn’t have much last season (personal fave being klaus/allison/vanya and every individual combo in that trio).

i personally love reading other peoples’ opinions on shows/movies, even if they don’t match my own, because a lot of the time they open my eyes to some stuff i haven’t seen, and i love to see work affecting others the same way it does me, even if it has a different outcome.

so, i know i said i wouldn’t, but since you asked, under the cut i’m going list out some of the stuff i wasn’t a huge fan of, and some of the stuff i really liked.

(edit warning: this shit is LONG. but please don’t take this as me absolutely hating the season - I didn’t. there was some genuinely enjoyable stuff. but, in my opinion, it didn’t have the spark and intent that s1 did. it wasn’t the caliber of the season i fell in love with. i think it’s still rewatchable though, unlike a certain godawful season of a certain hit netflix show...... coughstrangerthings3cough)

WHAT I DIDN’T LIKE

1. not enough characterization/development in most of the characters (this will be the longest point, so I’ll get it out of the way first) - for one, the siblings - save maybe vanya & allison - really... did not develop much this season, and weren’t explored as heavily as in the first season. hell, even in vanya and allison’s cases, i still think s1 did a better job at delving into their characters and psyche, even though they still had a bit of it in s2. but especially in the other siblings cases, i feel like SO MUCH of this season leaned into trivial things the fans liked, that it either (at least) took time away from or (at worst) was an active detriment to the characters’ development and plots. they said oh you like banter? we’ll give you unnecessary arguing and jokes that go on for 20 minutes too long when we could be delving deeper into these interesting situations we saw on the surface. here’s some fart jokes and forgettable music when we could be seeing more of how these characters are coping with the literal end of the world/being sent back in time/facing the prospect of never seeing their families again.

in s1, we got luther’s immense internal struggles in living up to his “name” and only existing to please his father... diego finding his relationships through his jaded nature towards his siblings and himself, and grappling with feelings of inferiority... allison’s coping with the effects her powers have had on her life, and trying to become someone without rumoring everything into existence, which is a new feeling altogether that she isn’t quite sure how to cope with... klaus going through intense development as a simultaneously self-obsessed and self-destructive drug addict that gets thrown into a gruesome war for a year, only to watch the person he loves most die, grappling with his ptsd from war & his abusive childhood, and discovering new powers... five coming back home after decades of solitude and then being used as a weapon, trying to reestablish himself within the group while dealing with an eating feeling that he doesn’t belong in his body or in this group.... vanya, oh vanya, with her depression, anxiety, feelings of loneliness and betrayal, feeling invisible and utterly ordinary, gripping to whoever makes her feel special (and dealing with that fallout) before suddenly being slammed with unbelievably powerful abilities that she can’t control.

in s2... yes, we get lesbian!vanya who becomes truer to herself, and - through intense struggle - finds a way to harness her abilities so she isn’t so out of control and can finally feel extraordinary herself. but much of the latter was given up for a vast majority of the season bc she literally didn’t know who she was (there was a positive in that though, which i’ll list in my positives list), and so we lost a LOT of potential coping and learning time, which easily could have mingled with her sissy storyline! allison’s storyline i actually dug, i don’t have too much gripe with it except that i wish her throat injury didn’t just kind of magically heal, and they could’ve addressed it more. the end of ben’s story was interesting, but still lacked depth imo. as for the other siblings.... it all just felt like a TON of jokes that were funny at first, but quickly became stale and had me wishing they would take the story a bit deeper. that said, a lot of the gags, jokes, and quips were great, but they could’ve been incorporated WAY more intelligently, and allowed for characterization at the same time. loads and loads of banter, not being balanced with poignancy like s1 did very well.

we could have seen luther’s descent into the criminal underworld, and why he felt the draw and obligation to go that route. a more detailed look at klaus’ beginnings and relationship with the cult, his motivations (which s2 kept super shallow), more of diego’s life inside the asylum and even beforehand. but no, we got five and old five farting.

2. the music - man, the s1 soundtrack was iconic, was it not? effortlessly cool scene/music combos, countless iconic music moments, brilliantly and thoughtfully done. this season felt like they said “music? oh ok throw music EVERYWHERE” and it was just. not. good. instead of music that intertwined with each scene like it was a character itself, amplifying the tone and adding a new layer (like in s1), the music this season was mostly just distracting, forgettable, and felt like they were this close to just making a bunch of music videos. i even found myself hating a couple of their choices (the rest i just kinda... forgot). i did like the vanya/allison/klaus dance scene, but other than that.... eugh.

3. the handler - I HATE. HATE HATE HATE. when shows/movie franchises do shit like make a big deal of killing off a villain or lead and then just being like “hehe jk uwu” and bringing them back with some totally bs reason that they lived. a metal plate? really? and she magically awoke... how long after? not to mention how unbelievably lazy and lame it is. they could’ve done so much more with carmichael and the swedes, but they had to bring back... the villain we already had? don’t get me wrong, i LOVEEE kate walsh, but come on. it’s season 2. give us something fresh.

4. the swedes - in s1, cha cha and hazel had personalities, wants, desires that were all explored. we knew their motivations, their doubts, their fears. we liked to watch them. then the writers threw in the swedes... who were completely devoid of any and all characterization (they could’ve gone in my #1 point too heyo), personality, backstory, anything. it was so painful that when each one died, it was clear that we were supposed to feel something for the others, but did any of you really feel anything? no. because we didn’t know these characters at all. they were walking guns, pretty much. nothing substantial.

5. ben & klaus - being someone who loves these two characters so, so much (hellloooo, my old url?), this one breaks my heart. i was so unbelievably disappointed with them this season. all either of them were was horrible to the other. in klaus’ case, he just decided to keep ben’s presence a secret, not even telling the group ben loved them, or that he was there. he called him his ghost bitch, he used him as a personal pet, he lacked sympathy or compassion. we saw a glimmer of hope when he allowed ben to possess him, but that’s where ben’s issues start. seriously, possessing your brother past his breaking point, fighting him out of his own bodily autonomy, until he is in a state of complete exhaution? then saying he “regrets nothing”? and then the show playing it off as ~comedy~ bc that’s almost all they cared about this season... no... there was nothing in their relationship this season that compared to last’s. no moments of tough brotherly love, where ben tries to help klaus through his drug/alcohol desires or ptsd flashbacks, no moments of teamwork (besides the brief moments of consenting possession before that was ruined), no tender moments between brothers in general. all just REALLY FUCKING LOUD “comedy”, anger, resentment, bickering, and cruelty, all played for laughs. not about it son

6. “we’re not blood related!” - and, once again, getting played for laughs... for a show that became uncomfortably self-aware with trivial fan desires (but not the deeper stuff...), they sure do lack a lot of common sense of realizing what we don’t want

7. hazel (& agnes) - they went through the trouble of saving hazel and agnes just to have agnes die off-screen before the season started, and for hazel to die five minutes into his only appearance? lame. lame lame lame.

8. plot pace - i don’t really recall any moments in s1 that i thought “this scene doesn’t need to be here”, “this is moving so slowly”, or “this is being really rushed”. there was plenty of all three of those in s2. s1 was constant, everything was either towards the main goal or was filled with private and fascinating character moments. i love just watching characters live and do their thing if it’s done properly... but those scenes this season really weren’t very entertaining (save one or two), didn’t really seem to serve a purpose or hold weight, and didn’t give us any character insight.

9. klaus - the reason he’s listed specifically even after i mentioned him in the first point, was because of how personally saddened i was by his “arc”, if you could call it that. i know, him being my favorite (along with vanya) in s1 isn’t an original thought. but the writers, directors, and robert created a character so entertaining, charming, layered, and multi-faceted that it was hard not to fall in love with him. for all his goofiness, he then got a shit ton of characterization and development in the war, in dave, in his ptsd and discovering his power. his poignant moments were so powerful because of how different it was from his typical outward appearance. and fuck if he didn’t develop! this season, klaus felt... shallow. the cult stuff had no depth, no real reason to be there at all (the show really wouldn’t be much different without it, besides it being how five and allison found klaus), and it was kind of a throwaway point anyway, just another tool to get - shocker - more laughs. those touching, serious klaus scenes were completely absent in s2... he was just the ~quirky~ and/or ~high/drunk~ guy. there was literally no depth to his character at all this season. yeah, he crawled from behind the desk in e9.... and what else? nothing. robert did all he could this season, but something tells me even he was probably disappointed by just how one-dimensional klaus was. he was really no different at the end than he was at the beginning of the season, which is a no-no.

10. klave - this is kind of an expansion of #9, but i was so disappointed by it that it needed its own spot. the only stuff that was supposed to be serious in klaus’ story - the klaus/dave stuff - was really not good. the moment the shopkeeper said “david?” in the store, i literally gasped bc i was so excited... but that was the last of any excitement i felt for the two, which, if you know me, is BONKERS considering how much i adore s1 klave. but this new young actor had ZERO chemistry with robert (fuck if rob wasn’t trying, though. it looked painful for him, but this guy really was just not well casted) (cody and rob were phenomenal together and had a fraction of the screentime this new actor had), and klaus being 30 and this actor/character being a kid was just... weird to watch. plus... so many white actors look the same, they really couldn’t find someone who looked like cody ray thompson? c’mon now ...... also, was there any point to it? at all? dave just wound up going anyway and there was literally no differences made in that situation. i think the writers thought they were catering to the audience by adding dave, but you need actors with chemistry (cody! cody!!!) and a good plot to do so.

11. s1 fallout - there really was none. that’s it. you’d think there’d be more after the explosions in the relationships of these siblings, but everything was just kind of glossed over.

12. sparrow academy - mostly here because... does this mean 7 more characters? meaning MORE time taken away from our og siblings, who already (mostly) didn’t develop well this season? i’m not gonna lie, i’m worried/

WHAT I LIKED

1. the chestnuts - i absolutely loved ray, loved allison, and loved their and their group’s work this season. the issue of race is so important all the time, but in the 60′s the tensions were so high and it would’ve been a joke if the show hadn’t addressed it or just kind of went with little racist remarks. these two had some of the most touching scenes of the season, and the sit-in scenes/every police scene had me incredibly anxious. that was well done, imo. which is proof that they still know how to do a good storyline, which makes me even more upset that the show was overall lacking that this season. i’m also so glad they didn’t go the “oh sry ray i still love luther’ route bc i literally don’t know if i would’ve kept watching. ANYWAYS im gonna miss ray sm :(

2. vanya & sissy - lesbian!vanya is all i want and more. vanya/sissy was all i want and more. these two, much like the chestnuts, breathed so much life into an often-dull season. so in love!!! vanya connecting with harlan even in just the most human ways!!! sissy finally standing up to carl (and carl d*ing god bless).... little found family oh my GOD!!! super devastated that sissy didn’t come back to the future with vanya, but because of harlan’s ending, something tells me we haven’t seen the last of them. oh and i am so conflicted about vanya’s amnesia, bc while i think so much more development could’ve happened without it, i also don’t think a lot of what happened with her and sissy could have happened, at least as quickly, if vanya was bogged down by guilt, anger, and lingering feelings of self-hatred and anxiety.

3. sibling dynamics - okay, this one is a contradiction, kinda sorta. i know i said the ben/klaus relationship was horrid. and i didn’t dig absolutely everything with all the siblings.... but they had some REALLY strong stuff this season. i know i’ve already mentioned it multiple times, but vanya/allison/klaus was everything to me this season. i knew i wanted klaus/vanya stuff happening, but adding allison to the mix gave it a whole new layer and they all just worked SO. DAMN. WELL. i just kind of wish it was vanya with her memories getting that bonding time, because i feel like the trio really could’ve gone in with how they all related to each other, their struggles, etc. but still, just some Happy Time was much appreciated. in addition to them, i really did dig a lot of almost every sibling dynamic this season. not every relationship got the attention it deserved, but it wasn’t too bad, it would be really hard to get all of that into 10 eps. plus, the fact that almost all of them grew so much closer was everyyyything. it’s odd, because good dynamics usually come with good development but uh..... nvm im keepin this section positive

4. the humor - another kind of contradiction, maybe. for some of the humor, i thought it went too long, was extremely heavy-handed, often took away from the plot, and some of it even degraded certain characters and situations (see examples throughout my points above). however, the stuff that didn’t fall into these categories was so, so good. some favorites: olga foroga, “think of batman, then aim lower”, “you look like antonio banderas with that hair” “thanks man”, i’m t h e d a d d y h e r e, “not everyone here likes you” “sounds ridiculous but go on”, klaus’ little pop culture quips to his cult, “being smart doesn’t make you interesting” “neither does that beard”, klaus calling ben to manifest and ben being like ”...nah”... there are plenty more, but these were the first i could think of in 60 seconds off the top of my head. some of it really was laugh out loud funny, which can be hard to do, especially consistently. if only they didn’t lean into it so damn hard, and put in WAY too much heavy-handed humor that it dampened the experience

5. old five - although i don’t love all of the stuff in the five/old five scenes, old five’s actor was fantastic! he got aidan’s mannerisms down really, really well. it’s always cool to see actors do that kind of thing when they play a character at a different age, or a character’s sibling, etc.

6. time period bigotry - i’m really, really glad they didn’t gloss over the intense racism and homophobia of the era. it was mostly brought up with allison, vanya, and klaus, and all three actors did a great job in their respective roles when expressing their reactions to the hatred. the scenes were really hard to watch, but well done.

7. pogo/grace/reggie - don’t get me wrong, i still hate reggie with a burning passion. but i actually found his scenes with these two really interesting, and it gave us great insight as to why pogo was always so loyal to reggie, and how grace was more than just a face on a robot to hargreeves. (which actually makes lack of development in our mains even more infuriating... they clearly knew to put some in there, where is it for the rest of the sibs who got nothing this season!!!)

alright, i’m gonna stop here. i’m sure i can think of more for each section, but i’ve been thinking this out and typing for an hour (holy shit) and it’s 2am and i need sleep xoxo

#anon #ask #tua2 #this is the most i've really sat and analyzed the season since it came out #feels good

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okaybutlikeimagine · 5 years

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What if Joyce and her kids and Hop and his (including Max if you want cus I can’t get enough how you write her and Billy’s relationship) all went on a road trip together?!

(okay i know i have other asks before this that i need to respond to but) I LOVE THIS SO MUCH AND I’M!!!! CRYIN!! (also thanks so much for the lovely compliment ohmydear♥i love writing them too it’s so fun)

Okay so i read this and i was like: ohman they’d have to take 2 cars or something bc there’s Joyce + Will and Jonathan and then Hop + El and Billy and then Max?? That’s 7 of them! But tHEN

IMAGINE THEM ALL IN A VW BUS!!!

Joyce is a hippie in my headcanon bc I love that shit and she could show the boys hippie music and help them through life w/ it and so anyway I’d like to think she’s aLWAYS wanted a VW bus. they’re just… cute as hell and so damn cool and she could decorate the inside w/ cute curtains and i just love that so much. so now imagine Billy and Jonathan knowing she’s always wanted one and Jonathan never having seen one but Billy having seen them everywhere in Cali and knowing exactly what Joyce is talking about and they both save up a SHIT. TON. of money (bc i dunno how expensive they were back then but they’re pretty cool cars that a lot of people wanted and they’re big, so) and Will and El even help out by mowing lawns for people or picking up a paper route (Jonathan doesn’t like the idea of them working but they insist) and they buy a used 1968 Kombi VW bus and Billy fixes it up a bit and it’s a faded light blue color and it’s definitely not pristine, it definitely looks a little loved, but it’s perfect and they all help fix up the interior and it’s??? The most beautiful thing. And they give it to her for her birthday or Christmas or something and Joyce cries an absolute RIVER and would hug them all for hours if Hop hadn’t torn her away to let them breathe

So anyway, when Billy and Jonathan graduate from high school in 1986 (i don’t wanna do all the math on when Billy’s birthday would have to be and when school cut offs are but Jonathan and Billy were both born in ‘67 sooooo) Joyce wants to go on a road trip w/ everyone!!!!! Bc how exciting!! and really it’s Joyce’s idea bc Jim doesn’t really like dealing w/ lots of people in one place but Joyce knows all the kids love Disney movies and she’s also always wanted to go to Disney World so they go! And they bring Max along bc El begs and pleads and Billy thinks it’d be good for her to get out of the house and Joyce 100% agrees bc even though Neil hasn’t done anything, the energy is negative and that shit affects a kid, y’know?? Plus they all love Max and would so adopt her if they could so she’s able to convince her mom and she goes w/ them and! just!

Imagine them all packed into a big VW bus w/ little floral curtains and funky retro seat covers, on the road at 7:30am and Joyce agreeing to drive the first few hours bc Hop is useless in the morning and conks out immediately once they get in. El and Will do too, El on Max’s shoulder and Will on Jonathan’s as Jonathan and Billy and Max start arguing for like, a good half hour about what music they should listen to on the trip down until there’s a lull in the fight and Joyce says she only brought her tapes of 60s and 70s music. so they all get educated on good hippie music.

and Billy and Max love each other, they do. they had a bumpy relationship when Billy was living at home before but they’re a lot closer now and they’ve been siblings for years now. but they’re just both such fiery personalities that they bicker more than half the time down. It’s a 16 hour drive (maybe even more??? If there are more roads now than in 1986) so it takes them 2 days and they’re so bratty towards each other.

So they’re all trying to explain what Disney World is to El who is still rather confused.

“We’re going to…. Another world?”

“What’s a… roller… coaster?”

“You mean Mickey Mouse is real??”

And that one makes Max giggle and shake her head.

“It’s like… Santa. People dress up as him and other characters and you can take pictures and stuff.” she gives a dangerous smirk then, turning around to look at Billy. “Billy’s afraid of them.”

“I am not.” He growls, kicking at her seat but trying not to kick too hard bc they worked too hard to get this van looking nice.

“You totally used to cry at anyone in a costume. We barely got to go trick or treating that one year because you were so freaked out.”

“Because our asshole neighbor was dressed as Jason and chased me down the fucking street!”

“Language!” Hop yells at the same time as Jonathan snorts. Billy reaches over Will to pinch Jonathan hard.

“Is that why you were shaking when we saw Mickey Mouse that one time?”

“That was on the Walk of Fame. Everyone is afraid of those guys because they’re all a bunch of coke addicts!”

“Coke… addicts?” El asks and everyone pauses, Jonathan letting out another snort.

“Like Coke and Pepsi?” El asks, and everyone immediately agrees while Jonathan laughs a bit.

“Yeah! Coke and Pepsi!” Joyce agrees, while Hop turns and gives them a harsh look to stop this conversation.

Joyce asks what character El is most excited to see. Joyce says that she herself hopes that they have Winnie the Pooh bc he’s her absolute favorite.

“I like Alice.” she says with a smile. It had kind of scared El when she first saw it, but she thought the colors were cool and Alice is just as curious as El is.

“I hope they have Peter Pan.” Max says a little dreamily.

“You just like him because he’s a ginger like you.” Billy snarks, to which Max sends him a harsh look.

“You like him too! We used to watch that movie all the time when we were little.”

And she’s right, they did. It makes him smile. Maybe there’s some psychological reason- the idea of a cute boy coming by to take him away from his terrible life and whisk him away to a magical world is pretty fucking nice -but he’s not about to overanalyze himself. And if anyone were to ask what he’s most excited for, he definitely wouldn’t admit that it’s Peter Pan.

“I like Peter Pan too.” Will admits, to which Max turns to look at him.

“Isn’t he cute?”

Will nods with a slight blush.

“Who’s Peter Pan?”

Max is distraught at El’s question.

“You haven’t seen Peter Pan???” She turns to Jonathan. “What are you guys doing depriving her of Peter Pan?”

“She’s with you more often than us!” Billy is indignant. “What have you been doing, not showing her Peter Pan?”

Max sticks her tongue out. Jonathan says he’s looking forward to Tomorrow Land and all of the parade floats. When Billy is asked, he mumbles something about wanting to ride all the big rides like Space Mountain and Thunder Mountain.

“What about you, Dad?” El asks happily.

“I’m just excited for the food.” Hopper grunts.

So yes, lots of bickering with the occasional break to listen to whatever song is playing. And you fuckin bet they bicker over where to stop to eat, too, until Hop decides for them all.

And i was trying to look up different, more obscure theme parks or attractions for them to go to but I just… couldn’t get over the idea of all of them getting matching Mickey Mouse ears. bc just… think about it. Think about a picture of all of them gathered in front of the castle wearing their Mickey Mouse hats, Hop and Joyce w/ an arm around the other, Joyce leaning up against Hop, El and Will smiling the biggest and cheesiest smiles with El’s arm around Will’s shoulder, Jonathan giving a little shy smile bc he feels pretty dumb, Max getting the biggest kick out of Billy freaking out over ruining his hair but giving him an expectant look until he puts the hat on, Billy yanking a strand of her hair out right before the photo is taken and Max shrieking so they have to take another one and when they do Billy rests his arm on Max’s head and max is stepping on Billy’s foot but they chuckle about it afterwards, giving irritated looks that break into smiles.

And i just?????? Jonathan buys Nancy a little bracelet with a Minnie Mouse charm on it and a stuffed version of Piglet from Winnie the Pooh and Billy gets Steve a little stuffed Bambi and a shirt that says “Princess” in big letters and gets himself a matching one that says “Prince Charming”. Steve pretends to be less than impressed but he blushes when Billy mumbles something about how he couldn’t stop looking at the castle and thinking of his princess back home and i just??? I have so many ideas about this Hopper Family Vacation to Disney World AUGH i love this.

(and if you want their Road Trip Playlist just ask me bc i just?? imagine their little van driving back up to Indiana on a calm road through a little patch of tall trees while Harvest Moon plays and its golden hour and Jim is driving and Joyce has her head leaning back against the seat, humming along and the sun is making it look like she’s glowing and Jim is a little worried about swerving bc he just wants to look at her. And Billy is leaning back in his seat all the way in the back, arm out the open window next to him as he waves it around in the soft air. Will and Jonathan are asleep on each other next to him and Max turns around from where she’s sitting in front of Billy to ask him something and sees her brother looking so damn calm. Just so serene and happy, a content smile on his face and golden sun hitting his blond hair gracefully as he blinks slowly. And she can’t think of what she was going to say bc it feels surreal to have this kind of moment w/ a family that feels so oddly whole. And Billy notices her staring and turns to her and she just sticks her tongue out and makes a funny face. Billy swipes gently at the air in front of her a few times w/ his left hand, chuckling a bit. She tries to kick him but she can’t reach and he just huffs a big, sharp breath in her face and she reaches to smack him as they both start giggling. then a soft click comes from their left and they see El has taken a picture of them on her little disposable camera she got on the way there and Max turns back around to talk to El and ask about how many pictures she thinks she’s taken and Billy turns back to look out the window, watching farms pass by in a haze, colored by the soft orange light of the sun, as he hugs the little Bambi plushie he bought for Steve and thinks about how comfortable happiness feels.)

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