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booksandpaperss · 11 months

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How Stranger Things (poorly) handles racism as a topic compared other heavy topics it successfully tackles

before we get started, I would to direct you all to some other accounts who have already discussed this that you should check out either before or after reading this post: @wewebaggit @googoogagaeyes @elekinetic and anyone else please feel free to tag yourself or another account that’s discussed this and I’ll happily boost it

Content Warning for in show examples of racism and discussions of racism, as well as mentions of homophobia and the AIDES epidemic

. While we're discussing historical accuracy in stranger things and homophobia + ignorance being present even in well meaning characters, I want to point out that if the writers of the show weren't so squeamish about addressing racism in any in depth way, than this type of historical accuracy would be for racism too.

what I mean by this: in this sense, the show is not consistent. It's clear that the writers have done their research on 80s homophobia and how openly prevalent it was, if the AIDES allegory in season 2 and the way homophobia was very clearly present in seasons 1 and 2 (it still is in seasons 3 and 4 but the first 2 seasons showed it in the scope of the entire town), but racism was just as overtly prevalent, and yet the writers have neglected to address it in the same thoughtful and coded way. if the show was just as consistent about racism as it is about homophobia, than the white characters would be at the very least shown as ignorant just like the straight characters are.

and I'm not going to say that it's completely ignored, because that's not true:

-in season 2; mike makes an ignorant comment that implies Lucas should have been Winston because he's black, and Lucas calls him on it. There's also the very racist undertones (that are practically overtones) of Billy's treatment of Lucas. -There is almost nothing in season 3 except for a jokey joke when Nancy says the whole party is her family and the receptionist, who is a black woman, gives Lucas a skeptical look.

-Season 4 is a little better, with the implications (key word: implications, I'll come back to that in a moment) of Lucas's season 4 arc being that he was trying to fit in because he didn't want to be racially targeted and bullied for being a nerd at the same time anymore, that he felt like even more of an outsider compared to the rest of his otherwise all white friend group who, as far as he knows, are all cishet and giving him shit for wanting to lessen how much he's perceived as an outsider because he's automatically seen as even more of a "freak", and his friends just weren't getting it because they were white and ignorant. So the writers aren't blind to race and racism.

However. None of the examples that I've just listed are addressed later in any in depth way; not like the homophobia is. The only one that's even remotely delved into instead of simply being glossed over is Lucas's s4 arc, and even that is still very flitted around and left up to interpretation of the audience.

The writers seem to have a very "hit and run" sort of policy with addressing racism. They clearly know they should, and they at least seem to know that having a black character in an 80s setting with a cast of mostly white characters inherently creates a lot of racial subtext-

-for example, the very loud subtext of Jason (a white boy much older than Lucas) seeing Max (a white girl) in a trance alone with Lucas (a black boy) and immediately assuming the worst + Jason's white friends tackling an 11 year old black girl to the ground: subtext that I'm still not sure if the writers and directors were even aware of bc they never addressed it and their track record isn't great-

-but they hardly do anything about it.

I'm not surprised, considering this show is headed by two white men, but what really gets me is that they all truly could have tried harder. Like I said earlier, it's clear they've done research and put thought into addressing homophobia (it still could've been handled better but that's an entirely different conversation), and it's evident from Max's s4 arc that they also did research on Depression, PTSD, and the impacts on someone of their abusive family member dying. So the lack of care and thought put into addressing racism in the same way is clearly more than ignorance (which would still be bad, when you're writing a show this big in 2023 with topics like this you're actually, shocker, responsible for making sure they're addressed properly, ignorance is a choice at that point), its just fucking lazy. they don't care. And this not caring is inherently harmful on a show this big and frankly, I'm tired of so many viewers and people in this fandom straight up ignoring this fact, just like the show runners.

And I haven't even covered the complete lack of effort put into Patrick's backstory, or the fact that Erica is very much the sassy, mature for her age black girl stereotype (she deserves so much better). Oh, And we can’t forget the copaganda.

I'm glad that season 4 started to explore the dynamic between Lucas and Erica and expand on both their characters, and from the looks of things that will continue in season 5, so the writers have a chance to do their research, actually put effort more effort into the sinclair sibling’s characters, and improve, and I'm hoping they will but as of right now I don't trust them to, and won't unless they prove me wrong.

TDLR; the main issue is that Stranger Things is clearly a show that addresses topics like depression, abuse, homophobia, and racism, but the racism part is neglected compared to the others, just like how Lucas and Erica's characters are handled poorly compared to the white characters,. it's lazy, horribly insensitive, and racist in and of itself. There's a clear bias, and even if it improves in season 5 we still should be talking about it, and more white people (yes white queer people included, we are not exempt from this discussion, if anything we should care just as much about it as when we’re talking about homophobia) in this fandom need to start listening when black and brown people do talk about it instead of just waltzing through and ignoring it for your own peace of mind.

also I should clarify that I myself am white, I made sure I did research before making this post in order to talk about this accurately and consciously, but if I made any mistakes or said something insensitive or used an incorrect term or anything else, feel free to correct me and I will readily fix it

as a final note: please check my rebligs of this for links to more posts that talk abt this issue

#also I know this is a lot of text I’m sorry I tried my best to format it but it’ll be way easier to read on desktop than on ur phone #stranger things #stranger things analysis #stranger things fandom #tw racsim #elli talks stranger things

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heyitspersephone · 7 months

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Thinking about stranger things again now that the strikes are over and how, narratively, it would be way, WAY cooler to have Mike get Vecna’d instead of Will in s5

It’s just something about the way Mike’s trauma is never addressed or handled in any way?? Like, he hugs his mom twice and then when he was depressed in season 2 and 4 nobody did anything (his parents scolded him for his behavior in s2 ig but that’s not support). His best friend went missing leaving from his house, he watched his body get pulled from the quarry, watched El (in his eyes) kill herself stopping the demogorgon, watched Will be possessed, saw Bob die, was in Star Court when everything went down, saw Billy die, had his best friend move away, was SHOT AT (and really too few people talk about the shooting in Cali bc omg??), buried a body, and watched the apocalypse start. And that’s just off the top of my head.

(And yes I’m aware that the other characters (especially Will) are traumatized too but I will get to my point in a second just hold on)

The plot is geared towards this idea that Will and Henry have to have some big face off (and they should, in my opinion, but I don’t think it should be in a possession, or at least not the the Vecna kind of possession, yk?) but that makes it all the better, writing wise, to have mike be the one in danger. Will was helpless and hiding in s1, I think Will should get his big strong moments in s5 where he gets to be the hero of the story.

It would just be a lot more fun to work with Mike being Vecna’d than Will, because what are we going to bring up with Will’s visions? His dad? His sexuality? The events of s1 from his perspective? It would be cool to see, for sure, but we already know most of that. Mike, on the other hand, has a number of untapped things, like jumping off the quarry, why he’s so hesitant to tell El he loves her, how someone who was smart and kind enough to take El in in s1 and come up with the spy and sauna plans in s2 and s3 could turn into the oblivious asshole that he was in s3 and s4 (he needs therapy, ik, I still love his character but I want to explore the reasons he went from his s2 characterization to his s3 one)

It would be a very interesting parallel, I think, to explore Mike’s thought processes in this way, especially with all of Mike’s repression business (bc whether you ship byler or milkvan he is repressing his feelings HARD. Like, beyond his inability to say I love you there’s the fact that he doesn’t bring up the apparent many times he called pre-s4 during the Rink O Mania fight?? That literally would’ve absolved him of guilt in that argument since he WAS reaching out to Will the whole time? Hellooooo????).

Anyways, this all brings me to my main point: Vecna targets isolation as much as he targets trauma and guilt. The whole party was traumatized by the events in s1, s2, and s3, but Max was the one targeted. Plus, Henry went for Fred, Chrissy, and Patrick (I think his name was Patrick) instead of going for the perceivably easy targets that the mcs would make (ik narratively that would’ve made it more boring but shhh), so why Max and those three specifically? They were isolated. Lucas and Erica have each other, Dustin goes to Steve and Robin, Will and El have each other and Jonathan and Joyce, Nancy probably goes to Jonathan, and who does Mike go to?

No one. And don’t say Nancy because if those two have heart to hearts then I’m the next coming of Christ. Max separated herself from the Party in the aftermath of her grief and guilt over Billy, and it feels quite obvious that Mike was doing the same (like I said, he has repression issues). So Mike is traumatized, alone, and guilty (be it Will getting taken from Mike’s house, losing El in front of him multiple times, the many deaths he has witnessed, or the internalized homophobia angle), which makes him more of a target than Will, in my opinion (or at least an easier one, especially given his tendency to put himself on the line during fights (quarry, most of s2, s3 mindflayer fight), which would set him up on the suicidal ideation path)

Furthermore, as I’ve seen a few other people point out (and I can’t find the posts but one of them had eight screenshots of the various moments), Mike is always the one getting in the way, so it would be a strategic move for Henry to target him to get him out of the picture. Mike was the one that found El and got her involved in saving Will s1, he was the one who came up with the spy plan and called out the ambush in s2, he was the one to monologue Will out of his possession s2, he was the one with the sauna plan for Billy in s3, he was the one trying to help El get the strength to fight s4 (even if the monologue sucked ass it’s the intention that counts). As much as people like to hate on Mike, he is in the leader position most of the time when the party is grouped up (barring his mental health struggles slowing that down beginning of s3 and throughout s4, but he’s still capable of it). He’s the idea man, and he’s the one whose character’s foundations were built on the desire to keep his friends safe, so it would be a very fun plot line to watch him be the one targeted in s5. Like Will said, as lovestruck and cheesy as he was, Mike is the heart of the party when he’s on his A-game, so Henry should 100% be trying to keep him in the issues he’s been struggling with.

Obviously, Will and El are the Targets with a capital T for Henry since they’re the ones that got away or whatever, but I think Mike is a weakness of Will’s (and El’s tbh but also I think they need to have separate character arcs and I don’t exactly ship milkvan) that should be exploited.

TL;DR: Mike should get Vecna’d instead of Will in s5 because it would make sense in lore and be a very cool way to resolve his character arc

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hargrove-mayfields · 2 years

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Anyone else starting to wonder if the reason the Duffers gave Jason a black friend (and immediately killed him off. RIP Patrick, you deserved better) was so that they could argue that his intentions with the mob hunt on Lucas and Erica weren’t racist? Because um.. he was. He singled them out. He practically gave up on looking for Dustin and Eddie after Patrick died. It was all about the Sinclairs. He logically shouldn’t know Mike is on a trip to California, he could’ve even been looking for him but he never even tried that once he talked to Erica. He decided who he wanted to hurt the moment she opened the door to him.

Jason’s gang also assaulted Jeff (the other black character in THFC) at that garage with no hesitation, but let Gareth (a white kid) speak and defend himself first. Jason specifically and repeatedly targeted the black members of The Hellfire Club. Are we supposed to buy into the excuse that it’s okay because his best friend is black, so obviously he can’t be racist? Because that’s just bullshit and we all know it.

But it seems that the majority of the mainstream fandom seem to think it’s fine? The sheer number of people arguing that Jason was just some misguided soul who wanted to save people when he bought a gun with the intention to murder multiple people is not a good look. It’s always blaming Billy for being racist even though there are genuinely other reasons he went after Lucas specifically. Like, it’s not acceptable the way he chose to handle it, but he saw Lucas yelling at Max and making her upset, and Lucas literally was the one that snuck Max out and Billy knew that bc of the Mormons lie at the door. Like, it’s pretty possible his actions weren’t even racially motivated. Meanwhile Jason sends out a lynch mob with weapons after two black children because of a grudge on somebody else. The Sinclairs aren’t even his target and he can’t help but attack them viciously, with zero further questioning into where the actual target is. Why can’t anybody see that for what it is?

If Jason isn’t racist, then the duffers are, but I guess we already knew that.

#discourse #not tagging as anything #y’all on my dash can reblog this but I really am not in the mood for a fight #Jason ‘but my friend is black so I get a pass’ Carver #Patrick ‘done with his shit but stays friends with him bc he’s fucking insane’ McKinney

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deanismysavior · 2 years

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My hot take is that the show undermines the Party's friendship quite a bit at times. Dustin's leaving the party sucked because he was feeling left out (which, he was right about btw) and now he prefers to hang out with ''big guys'' like steve and eddie which is okay i like their dynamic but when you think about it it is kinda sad that he doesnt spend that much of time with the kids at his age and his friends anymore tbh.

I also think the show sometimes undermines Lucas's bullying which is related to his race. Kinda seemed like he was hated on bc he wanted to play basketball to stop the bullying. Mike did the same bullshit with stopping being 'nerd' in S3 and no one basically bathed an eye. But Lucas wants to stop being a nerd in S4 WITH A GOOD reason which is him not wanting to be bullied and now he's the bad guy??? Lucas had a better reason for his actions in comparison to Mike's.

Idk sometimes seems like the party just are being terrible friends for each other for no reason.

I think the division of the party was really to illustrate that they don't fully understand what each other are going through.

Dustin invests in Steve and Eddie so much because he never really had someone who was taking care of him like that. His father is absent in his life, and if you look at the way he interacts with his mom, it seems like he's often the one having to comfort and reassure her and not the other way around. But Mike and Lucas don't really understand that, especially Mike who prioritizes loyalty to the party over everything.

Lucas joins the basketball team so that he can gain a sense of normalcy and to attempt to mitigate some of the intense bullying he goes through. Will and Lucas are the members of the group that get the most intense and targeted bullying (and beyond just bullying, but hatecriming), as we see Billy threatening Lucas's life for dating Max, but Dustin and Mike don't fully understand the difference in severity of the bullying they've faced and the bullying Lucas has faced, so they again see this as a slight to the loyalty of the party.

Mike grows more closed off and kind of doubles down on Hellfire and being a freak because he's experiencing this huge sense of loss with the Byers moving to California and Eddie is the first person to really show Mike a sense of guidance after thst occurs. He feels like he lost the one person who truly understood him, and he's mourning that loss, but Lucas and Dustin don't really see that, so they just believe he's becoming an asshole.

While I agree that I miss the old dynamic of the party, I think it's an important narrative piece that needed to happen in order to signify to us in season 5 that unity is the key to defeating Vecna.

#mike wheeler #dustin henderson #lucas sinclair #will byers #eddie munson #steve harrington #the party #stranger things #st #ask #byler

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andiwriteordie · 1 year

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did someone ask u abt lucas and bloodbending and max yet bc i am dying to know your thoughts

my ask box is a mess right now and i will return to firebending mike and some airbending will after work (ok. that's a lie bc i have dinner plans tonight) but before work... let me talk about lucas saving max :)

so so so, we've talked a little bit about lucas's relationship to his waterbending. he's definitely not bad at it, per se, but lucas has always been a headstrong person and most definitely more of a fighter than he is a healer by nature. when he's growing up though, for some damn reason, combat fighting doesn't come as easily to him as healing does. he has to work 10x harder to learn combat waterbending, but healing? easy. (side note and not where i was going, but lucas ends up being the one who heals all the cuts and bruises and burns and stuff from when his friends get pushed around by bullies at school—creating an interesting relationship between lucas and his healing. sure, it's useful, especially when they don't want their parents finding out, but what good is his bending if it can only help in the aftermath? he's not strong enough to defend himself or any of his friends. all he can do is patch up their wounds. and that SUCKS.)

by the time book 3 rolls around, we're sitting in the aftermath of now two attempts on will's life by this airbender guy who has a connection with spirits, as well as now two years in a row where the spirits have come and attacked hawkins, leaving people lucas and the others know (like bob and billy) dead. and lucas decides enough is enough. he has to learn how to waterbend better. he's gotta be a fighter, not a healer. so he pushes himself and pushes himself and pushes himself. he's training every day and exhausting himself, but he makes progress.

and during those months in between is when he meets jason, a fellow waterbender who is excellent at combat bending. maybe jason's a probender too, so he sees lucas at the gym and sees his potential and starts to help him learn more. they become good friends, and lucas joins jason's probending team as an alternate. he feels like he's finally beginning to do what he should've been doing all along with his waterbending.

it's right near the beginning of book 3 (probably as jason is going a bit crazy with chrissy's death) that jason presents him with an opportunity. the full moon's coming up, and jason believes in lucas. he thinks he's great at probending, great at combat waterbending, and just great overall. so... does lucas want to learn how to bloodbend? they're going to need it if they're going to hunt own the person who did this to chrissy.

and initially, lucas completely rejects this. he hates the idea of bloodbending—of taking another person's control away from them. he hates it. he refuses to do it, and he and jason have a fight that leads lucas to leave and find the others.

when the time comes, then, and max begins getting targeted by this mysterious airbender with the deep connection to the spirits—that same one who nearly killed will—lucas feels ready. he and max aren't dating anymore, but that doesn't mean he doesn't love her and that doesn't mean he won't do anything to protect her. some way or another (that isn't fully planned in my brain because ah i haven't entirely thought out book 3 on the hawkins side), the group splits up to go fight this airbender and lucas stays with max.

and lucas is there when it starts happening.

will has never described what happened to him before, and they only know what this airbender's techniques are because eddie witnessed chrissy's death. but nothing could prepare lucas for this, and he's trying his damnedest to fight off the spirits keeping him from max, and jason is there too, and sure things are strained right now because they really don't see eye to eye right now, but they have a common enemy. they have to stop the spirits, and they have to stop this airbender.

but the airbender succeeds. lucas can hardly grasp what he's doing, but max is choking, and she can't breathe, and lucas can't get to her. everyone in the hawkins team is overwhelmed by the spirit attack, and it hits lucas that he's going to lose max.

then suddenly, the airbender crumples to the ground. and max does too.

lucas has no idea how. but that airbender isn't his concern right now. somehow, he manages to get to max, and he pulls her to safety, and he realizes she's not breathing. she's not breathing, and she's unconscious, and lucas panics, looking around for any of the airbenders that they're friends with—but will and el are missing, jonathan went to look for them, and robin is nowhere to be found, probably off fighting spirits closer to portal.

and all of lucas's healing training comes back to him. he starts trying to resuscitate max and getting her to breathe at first, but it's not working. and lucas isn't an airbender, and he's switching back and forth between doing compressions and giving her mouth to mouth and just desperately trying to use his waterbending to heal her...

and none of it works. she still won't come back.

it's then that lucas catches a glimpse of jason still fighting, and their chilling conversation from a couple nights before comes to his mind. lucas feels the full moon shining down on him and on max, and he knows what he can do. he knows what he has to do.

he just has to buy max some more time.

so, lucas, acting on instinct and on his healing knowledge, essentially uses his bloodbending to keep max's heart pumping. if he can get her heart to start again and keep it beating, he can buy her a little bit more time. so he does that, and it's the worst feeling in the world because this feels so wrong to reach into someone else's body and force it to do something. but it's also a powerful feeling. the moon shines down on them, imbuing lucas with its spiritual power and energy, and spirits help him, with max's near lifeless body in his arms, how is it that he has never felt more alive as a waterbender? isn't that awful? he didn't want this. he just wants to save max.

as the spirits begin to retreat, lucas yells at jason to find an airbender and to get help because max isn't breathing, and jason looks up and sees what lucas is doing. there's a shared understanding there. lucas did what he had to do for the girl he loves. and jason respects him a lot more for that, something which lucas hates in the aftermath.

in the end, lucas does buy max enough time. robin comes back, and she helps max to breathe, and together, the two of them get max stabilized. once she's stable enough, lucas immediately jumps in with his waterbending and tries to heal her, lest there be any longterm damage, and while the others go search for someone to help get max to a doctor, erica sits beside her older brother. they'd been separated in the battle, but she's here now. and she's never really cared much for healing, but watching lucas restore the damage that's happened to max and do everything he can to protect her from the long-term damage of this near-death experience? it gives erica a newfound respect of her older brother.

anyways. more on ethics and lucas and bloodbending and how he reclaims all this when i answer another ask on this!

#andi's asks #atlagate #stranger things/avatar au #you guys it's finally friday #and the friday before my vacation #everyone cheered

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lesbianrobin · 2 years

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Ahh so while we're on the topic of Nancy rarely/never facing any consequences or repercussions of her mistreatment of other characters, I genuinely think that if anyone should call her out it should be Mike. I have had this particular gripe with Nancy and Mike's relationship since the end of season 1 because at the end of season 1 before they all split up to save Will, Nancy hugs Mike and makes him promise her that there will be no more secrets between the two of them and that they'll always talk from now on. Then in the following episode she ditches him without a word to go fight the demogorgon, and then in season 2 instead of telling him where she's going or what she's doing when she goes to get Justice for Barb. she just leaves without a word again and remains basically unreachable for the duration of the season. We only see her with Mike once that entire season and it's right before she then ditches him for Jonathan. then in season 3 she's chasing after the story of the rats and he's looking for her or anyone to help with the whole Billy situation and can't find them leaving the majority of the kids to come up with a plan yet again on their own because they also can't reach Joyce or Hopper, (also during this time he's having relationship troubles with both El and Will - which if I was him. it would probably feel nice to have his sister around a just talk about what's going on in his life). And then at the end of season 3 when they're all together at the mall, she leaves him at the mall (with the target of the mindflayer) and it's Jonathan who decides to turn back and go save them. And then finally at the beginning of season 4 when he asks her to fill in for D&D (which I don't agree with him asking her bc he should have been there for Lucas but lets ignore that for the time being) She doesn't even let him state his case she just gives him a dirty look and shoos him away. And the thing is she kind of acts like it's his fault every season for any miscommunication between the two of them, but she is always literally impossible for him to reach except for in season 4 which honestly good on him because she's never around to help him anyway.

But yeah I think that if any character should be a character to like, finally call Nancy out. Mike would be the one best suited for it.

this is a rly great point!! i've been missing the mike + nancy dynamic and it's honestly like sometimes the show forgets they're siblings (like on your s3 example). i'm hoping beyond hope that we get Something decent with the two of them in s5

#asks

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luwuley · 2 years

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max’s graveyard scene is great. Showing her mourning the loss of what could of been instead of pretending they had a good relationship.

He wasn’t good to her. In season 2 it was clear max did not like him. Less than siblings, maybe allys, but she got to know if maybe they could been like brother & sister bc his sacrifice showed her he cared and that could’ve been something.

#st4 spoilers #stranger things spoilers #i never liked billy bc he targeted Lucas #and I didn’t like his pseudo redemption #but this scene #was good #not a redemption in her eyes but a possibility #max mayfield #maxine mayfield

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okaybutlikeimagine · 5 years

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I absolutely love your Dad Hopper adopting Billy headcanons! I eat that shit upppppp. I was wondering where in that whole family dynamic Max fits in? She’s still Billy’s sister right even if they’re not blood-related or legally-bound, right???

I’M GLAD YOU ASKED!! (also you’re so damn sweet ohmygod you’re too sweet thanks dear ♥♥♥ you’re always so damn sweet and any time you like and reblog my stuff i cry, it means so much)

She is 1000% still Billy’s sister. Pretty sure you sent this in before I answered all those other things about Max. i thought about adding this into the other asks i did w/ Max but i really just wanted to write more about Max w/ the Hopper family bc i can nEVER GET ENOUGH. I just love Max ♥

Also for those of you who may not know I’ve written it/want to read some more Max and Billy and the Hoppers, I’ve talked quite a bit about it! I’ll link a bunch of stuff here: x x x x x x

oKAY so I’ve talked before about how Max is super duper fucking jealous of El’s relationship w/ Billy. He’s so nice w/ her and soft w/ her and friendly w/ her and it makes her upset bc she feels like she lost her brother. I c r y thinking about Max leaving the Hopper home and going back home to no one. Just her draining mother and her dickish step-father and a new guest room that she knows no one is ever going to use bc she really can’t imagine anyone coming to visit them out in Hawkins fucking Indiana.

So she spends a LOT of time at the Hopper residence. Like, you know how in sitcoms there’s always that one friend that is over at the other friend’s house all. the. time. And the parents are always like: “Don’t you have a home to go back to?” as the friend flops themselves on the couch and burns through a bag of chips??? That’s Max at the Hopper home.

Except, and I’m gonna say it: Hop really likes Max. She might be his favorite kid of the group (except for his own daughter but she doesn’t really count, y’know??) bc Max is basically Billy (snarky, sarcastic, sharp) just w/o all of the aggression and destruction and teen-boy horniness. She’s really chilled out and she’s only slightly disrespectful sometimes but overall she’s fun to talk to and she seems to be a good influence on El. Any influence on El that steers her away from stupid boys is a good influence in Hop’s eyes. Hop knows her favorite TV shows and what her favorite subject is in school and the fact that she prefers the strawberry ice cream to the chocolate when he buys Neapolitan ice cream.

So she’s over allll the time. She’s always doing El’s hair or vice versa. They’re having fashion shows in El’s room. They’re dancing around to music on El’s stereo. They’re reading comic books or magazines on El’s bed or on the ground, laying around in funny positions and always touching be it their feet or their arms or their legs. They’re just always together. Joined at the hip. Pulling each other around hand in hand or arm in arm. Whispering and giggling and laughing.

And sometimes Max comes over to see Billy. Bc she’s hanging around her room missing hearing the stupid sound of his weights hitting the ground or of the heavy rock playing from across the hall or the way he pulls her hair when they pass each other. Even in their house where he would frequently shrink away in fear of being targeted, his presence was larger than life. Now the house is empty and she hates it.

But Hop said she’s always welcome and El is always excited for her to come over and Billy always gives her a smile before shifting into a smirk and asking: “Here again, shitbird?”

He doesn’t give her too much shit, though. He’s always very, very soft about teasing her about it. Bc she would never admit it to him, but he knows she misses him. He misses her too. He lived w/ her for years, they’re siblings, she’s fun to annoy bc she annoys him right back and it’s just what they do.

Max stays over just about every weekend for extended sleepovers with El. The first few nights she stays over, Hop doesn’t let her even help cook, but eventually Billy makes her help him so that Hop can sit down and relax. Max pouts about it a little that first time, but she’s actually happy about it bc it reminds her of when she would cook dinner w/ Billy when they were home alone and their parents hadn’t left them anything to eat. El likes it too bc she thinks it’s fun to watch people cook. Plus, Max lets her eat little things like pinchfuls of cheese or a nearly cooked pasta noodle, whereas Billy and Hop always make her wait.

Sometimes, when Max and Lucas are dating and on good terms, she’ll invite Lucas over to the cabin to hang out and watch TV or something. Hop likes the kid, El thinks he’s fun, and Billy thinks he’s one of the lesser annoying ones (Mike and Dustin are definitely way more annoying in Billy’s eyes)(plus, Lucas drinks New Coke w/ him and laughs w/ him while everyone else gags in their direction)

Except…

“Why does she get to bring her boyfriend over and I can’t?” Billy asks one day, gesturing to Lucas and Max on the sofa watching reruns. Max sticks her middle finger up at Billy w/o turning to look at him. Billy swats it out of the air w/o looking at her.

“Because she’s not my kid.” Hop says, but his jaw is tight.

And it screws into Max’s heart. It solidifies to her that she isn’t really part of the family. They’ve kind of adopted her, but more as the pestering friend than the 2nd daughter.

Except… the more she does it, the more she comes over, the more she sits under Lucas’ arm, the more it gets into Hop’s skin.

To the point where Hop is taking Lucas’ arm off of Max’s shoulder and pulling him towards the door, telling him: “Your dad called, he needs you home.”

“I didn’t hear the phone ring-” Lucas whines but Hop silences him with a look.

“He called. Get home.”

And when he closes the door and turns around, he sees Max turned around on the couch, looking at him like she’s waiting for an explanation. He just shrugs.

“I didn’t like how he was looking at you.” He grumbles.

And let me tell you, it warms her heart. She’s not even that irritated at all. She turns back to the TV and huffs, but there’s a smile on her face that’s hidden from Hop. Not from Billy though, as he flops on the couch and shoves her head away gently and chuckles.

“Welcome to the family.” He mumbles, before he reaches for the remote and the two of them argue over it.

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thorsthot · 5 years

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Billy being racist is never confirmed and the actor himself doesn't see billy that way. He's an awful, abusive prick, but he was only targeting lucas bc of how many times he saw him with max, who hes reluctantly protective of. He treated all the kids like shit. He's not a good person but and you can interpret his actions however you want but its not canon so.

y’all love defending racism and abuse to cover up your lust huh. i don’t wanna talk about this bye

don’t tell me what the fuck is and isn’t racist

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fyrbol · 7 years

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ok but talk about lucas' reaction to b*lly coming in and throwing him against the wall and then steve coming in to defend him bc it's Important

it IS hugely important and not a situation i take lightly. billy is literally the most disconcerting character on the show for me, and he fucking targeted lucas from the get-go solely for talking to max. the implications were obvious : billy’s a straight up racist and likes taking his anger out not only on minors but on the black boy who’s literally never said a fucking word to him jdlkfjdf

i want to make it very clear that lucas is not scared of billy. particularly in the 80s, this sort of hostility was sadly normal ( and it still fuckin is, i don’t want to hear any of this it’s 2017, racism doesn’t exist horseshit ) and racist remarks have been made toward lucas since season one. but he is still a child, and he was in over his head with someone a good few years older than him. for that, i think he respects steve for stepping in with a kinda pick on someone your own size mentality, but if u don’t think lucas won’t hesitate to tell billy to eat shit lmao......

i personally would lov s3 to have some sort of resolution in that sense like just grab your wristrocket and catapult a rock straight into his face is2g he deserves that before he gets killed off ( bc he Better be i get so fuckin sick whenever he’s on screen ) but i don’t rly want lucas to be hounded any more than he has been like........ give my boi more screentime that Doesn’t surround 1) a love interest or 2) billy fuckin hargrove kill billy and replace all his screentime with lucas thanks x

again i want to reiterate that i will not interact with billy hargrove blogs under any circumstances. he’s a racist abuser who literally targeted my boi and makes Me as a viewer personally nervous and i don’t want to explore any ‘au’ or ‘redemption arc’ or worse yet canon interactions between them bc i don’t believe in using very important issues such as racism for the sole purpose of angst. it needs to be talked about and i’m happy to oblige on that front, but fuck outta here with actually writing that shit, u kno

#leaderist #racism mention /#; honesli i jus want billy dead #; i hope this ! came across as i meant i'm rly jus adamant and stressed KLDFK #( * CODE RED. / ask message. )

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