#hope you don't mind me going on and on about rini

[homemade-ghosts]

why do you think some people are saying ricky's feelings came out of nowhere? because i don't really see that (i got into the show for them so i don't get it)

Do you want the nice answer or the mean one? (trick question, I’ll give you both.)

If I were being nice and giving them the benefit of the doubt, I’d say that, prior to this season, it had been a long time since Ricky & Gina interacted. & If they’ve been watching the show as it airs, then it’s been over a year in real time and roughly half a season (which was maybe a few months in the show’s universe?) since we saw them speak to one another -- so, I can understand how seeing their dynamic for the first time in so long could be jarring to the casual viewer.  

& I would say that, even though Ricky’s feelings don’t come out of nowhere, I get how it could feel that way because, up until this point, we’ve only really seen their relationship from Gina’s perspective. We saw her confess to Ricky on opening night, saw the tears spilling down her face when she told Ricky she wouldn’t quit on them if she wasn’t moving away. We saw her deflate when Ricky sang with Nini at that New Years Eve party. We watched as she fled Ricky’s apartment after telling him that he should sing that song he wrote to Nini over the phone because “every girl loves a sweet gesture”, knowing that she was thinking of that day he serenaded her with "When There Was Me & You" last fall. We watched as she smiled at the thought of Ricky having gotten her those chocolates on Valentine’s Day and then tried to hide her discomfort and heartbreak when she found out he didn’t (at least as far as we know right now, but I’m still a little bit of a chocolates theory truther lol). My point is, Gina’s feelings for Ricky have always been front and center, until now. Now, finally, we are getting Ricky’s perspective on things. I can only hope that the people who want to claim his feelings came out of nowhere will change their minds as more of Ricky’s POV is revealed this season. Ricky himself said it best, “you don’t know the full story.”

Okay, that was my attempt at a nice, calm and understanding answer. If you want my more...honest opinion, then here's where I start to get a little mean.

If someone says Ricky’s feelings came out of the blue it’s because they lack any media literacy or comprehension skills. They can’t grasp a story until it is explicitly spelled out for them or spoon fed to them. Now that it has been spelled out (via Jet picking up on Ricky’s feelings and calling him out on them & now, by Ricky literally telling Carlos he wasn’t pretending to “crush on” Gina during WDYKAL) they want to cry “bad writing” because they specifically didn’t see it coming. That’s not the show’s fault. The writing, if they paid attention and actually thought about it, has been building up to this for a long time. If they didn’t see it, that’s on them. 

I also have to point out that, anytime there’s wildly incorrect criticism like this, it usually comes from pws or Rinis (though I really shouldn’t bother adding the “or” because the venn diagram of people who ship pw and people who ship Rini is a circle) and they actively ignore the story this show is trying to tell in favor of their own misguided narrative. Last season, they claimed that Gina was a homewrecker because she was trying to “steal” Ricky away from Nini, despite the fact that Gina quite literally said she would never “step on what he has with Nini.” and she never did. Same thing is happening this season, except now it’s “Ricky is trying to steal Gina away from EJ.” when we’ve seen Ricky actively go out of his way not to do that because he’s prioritizing Gina and her happiness over his own feelings. They invent plot points and motives that fundamentally don't exist within the show.

I’ve heard it all. “Ricky doesn’t have any feelings for Gina.” *next season* “Okay, so he does, but they came out of nowhere.” *one episode later* “Okay, they didn’t come out of nowhere, but Gina doesn’t like him back. She’s moved on to EJ.” *watches their WDYKAL performance* “...so maybe Gina does have feelings for Ricky...b-but she shouldn’t break up with poor EJ because that’ll break his wittle heart!!” (as if I’m supposed to care about his feelings during their inevitable breakup when he’s the one actively ruining his own relationship by being selfish, non-communicative, insecure + keeping secrets from and not spending time with his girlfriend). 

They’re scrambling for a reason, any reason, for Ricky & Gina not to end up together and I’ve yet to hear a single one that wasn’t nonsensical and completely disproven by the show. Just loud and wrong, every single one of them. 

#i could've just said 'because they're bitter and dumb' but apparently i'm incapable of writing a short post so you got this instead lol #ricky x gina #rina #hsmtmts #hsmtmts s3 #asks

[starrrbakerrr]

i KNOW narratively it wouldn't make any sense for gina to go back to ej (since there's no way their problems would vanish just like that/ej can't fix his mistakes in one episode/it would be a disservice to gina's character and the way she stood up for herself) but i will never trust a man named tim federle. i'm really trying to stay optimistic but it's kinda hard after watching the promo + the KL sneak peek. i need to breathe.

It really would make no sense for her to go back to EJ. It can't believe that it will happen because it's that ridiculous. Like you said, it negates everything Gina said during their breakup.

Maybe I'm a little trusting of Tim because this is the first time I'm watching the show in real time. But I just think every week Rinas go in scared and we make it through. Things are what's expected or even better. I'm manifesting good things. 😌

With the KL sneak peak, first with regarding Rini. I don't think Nini was looking at him in a longing way at all. I haven't seen a bunch of people claim that but still, she looks like a proud friend/ex who has settled their differences. It looks most like closure to me.

Now Portwell, it's completely valid for them to look at each other. They just broke up, it doesn't mean they are getting back together or that Gina will change her mind about EJ. Same with Rini, yes they may share a moment, but it's because they have a history, not because they are still in love.

I just think that there's no way we got all this build up of Rina all season for there to be no payoff, no inkling of hope. It would be such a cruel thing to do 😭. I'm on edge too and it's only getting work but worst case if that things are left open for EJ and Gina, but that doesn't mean that the door is closed for Rina.

#well I hope that's what it means #ask #rina

[gracestone]

1/3 I say this as a former Rina stan now major PW convert, I just dont see how Ricky and Gina can be good romantic partners in the long run. I honestly believe they could have worked in s1 but if s2 showed us anything its that they cant provide what the o/ needs as a romantic partner. Rickys whole arc has been about his aversion to change. Meanwhile Gina needs less change & more stability in her life. Each character needs to learn at least one lesson per season & I just dont see how their...

2/3 character arcs can cross paths romantically. I do believe they can be a great support to one another as friends. I truly believe s3 should end with Ricky single and learning to be ok/happy with that. Not Rina endgame as they claim b/c then he wouldnt really be learning anything and growing as a character. Maybe over time he realizes he has feelings for G but that honestly wouldnt make any sense if the show wants him to really grow and develop as a more well rounded character... 3/3 If theres anything that he learns from his relation/friendship w/ Lily, it should be that he needs to take some time for himself. I just think it would be poor storytelling for him to realize that he has feelings for G by the end of the season esp. when she already moved on. Doesnt seem fair to drag her back to that state of pining after Ricky. Rina have great chemistry but it would be a regression of their characters to be romantic at this point. Also Nini & Gs friendship would be at risk..

I completely agree that Ricky and Gina's individual arcs can't cross paths romantically. They go in opposing directions instead of complementing each other, and so in order for them to get the individual growth they need, they can't be together. Because one of them would always be holding the other back. I've talked about it quite extensively in this post, so I'll try not to repeat myself too much here and instead say something new.

This answer kinda got away from me, so I'm putting it under a read more and dividing it into a Ricky section and a Gina one.

Ricky

I think the mindset that most R*nas have that Ricky needs to let go from Nini romantically stems from a very superficial reading of the show and Ricky's character arc. The show has established that Ricky hates change and that he clings to the past because he feels safe. That much is true. But R*nas wrongly apply that to his relationship with Nini. They argue that because they've known each other for a long time and because he feels safe with her, his love for her is therefore holding him back from growing as a person. So they think that Rini is what's holding Ricky back.

On top of that, the fandom coddles Ricky too much. They feel bad for him when he feels down, so they have this tendency to want to wrap him in a blanket and keep him safe from hurt forever. It's understandable to feel that way about a character you love. But that's essentially what Ricky is already doing to himself, and it's what's keeping him back.

Ricky has a fear of commitment, but it's not because he has "abandonment issues". The only person who has ever "left" him is his mother, and she didn't abandon him. Yes, her going to Chicago was difficult for him (and for her), and at first they didn't talk much. But she did try to talk to Ricky. It's not like she just up and left him and his dad without saying a word. So no, Ricky doesn't have "abandonment issues". His commitment issues stem from a fear of change and, most importantly, rejection.

Ricky coasts instead of committing because he's terrified that he's not actually good at anything. He literally tells us this in 1x09 through the Troy quote he chooses:

Ricky is so afraid of failure that he'd rather not try new things at all. Because caring about something really deeply and then finding out that you're not good at it or messing it up? That hurts. Deeply.

He was terrified to tell Nini that he loves her, because he watched his parents tell each other that same thing all his life until they eventually stopped doing so and their relationship fell apart. In Ricky's eyes, his parents failed at their relationship. And not just that: he saw how much it hurt his father when his mother stopped loving him and ended their relationship. If Ricky admits that he loves Nini, their relationship potentially falling apart would only hurt him more, and he'd be left devastated like his father was. So he shuts down and tells Nini he wants a break instead. He'd rather put things on pause now than risk getting hurt even more after admitting how much he cares. But once he realises that by doing so he drove Nini further away from him and ended their relationship, he realises that he does need to show how deeply he cares sometimes.

His love for Nini has never been a problem. In fact, it's the one thing that drives Ricky's character arc in a positive direction. Because his love for Nini is intrinsically tied to his love for music.

I don't think it's a coincidence that Nini confessed her feelings to him through song. It wasn't just her way of putting herself and her talent out there for all the world to see while saying "I love you" in a way that felt safe and fitting for her. I think she knew that Ricky would secretly love it if she wrote a song for him. Because at the end of the day, no one knows him like she does. She's the only girl who knows what he's about (his words). That's why Ricky feels so safe with Nini and why he's braver when she's around to encourage him and believe in him. Like when she wanted him to come back on stage with her to sing Breaking Free. He felt he wasn't at his best, but she told him to just look at her, and it worked. He gave an incredible performance.

The thing about Ricky's "relationships" with Gina and Lily is that they are his safe options. Because neither are asking Ricky to commit to anything. Gina's "just fly, dude" comment summed it up pretty well. Just go with the flow and see where they land. Ricky and Gina "worked" as a flirtation in season 1 because they were both terrified to admit how much they cared about both the people in their lives and the show. Neither of them wanted that snatched away from them. But while Gina was afraid to admit that she cared because she feared she could never get the stability she needed to keep the things she cared about, Ricky was afraid to dream bigger and take more risks to get the things he wanted. He needed to put himself out there for all the world to see, but he was afraid that would lead to rejection and failure.

In addition to Gina and Lily not asking Ricky to commit to anything, they also don't challenge or inspire him to grow. They only compliment him on the things he does right, but they never call him out on the things he does wrong, let alone demand he does better. He never has to face any hard truths with them. He craves validation so badly, but the downside of him getting that validation too much is that he starts taking the things he has for granted and stops working as much for them as he should. He stops trying to be better. Because if he keeps reaching higher and higher, he keeps risking failure and rejection. So if he just keeps doing the same thing that he gets complimented on, surely he'll be safe and happy, right? He would never have to try new things or show how deeply he cares by committing to something, right?

Nini, unlike Gina and Lily, isn't afraid to speak the hard truth to Ricky. And as much as he doesn't like that, he needs to hear it in order to grow. Because as long as people only talk to him about the things he's good at, he can allow himself to coast and not commit to anything. But once he's hit with the hard truth? That's when he changes. Nini is angry with him for not saying "I love you" back, kinda dumping her and making fun of the theater? He joins the theater and puts himself out there by 1) auditioning and 2) declaring his love for her in song. Nini is angry that he's coasting through dance rehearsals and not fully committed to his role as Troy? Ricky stays up all night to practice the dance and gets it right. Nini tells him that he should talk to his mom because talking to her always makes him feel better? He calls his mom and, surprise surprise, he feels better. We see something similar when Mazzara calls Ricky out for being unreliable. Nini had already encouraged Ricky to audition for himself, not for her, but it wasn't until Mazzara essentially said that it didn't suprise him Ricky was giving up that Ricky felt the need to prove him wrong and go to the audition. Ricky needs to be challenged in order to grow.

The people who don't make Ricky face the hard truths make it too easy for him to put off trying to find out who he is. Deep down, Ricky knows who he is and who he wants to be, but because he's so terrified of failure and rejection, he doesn't want to admit it. That's why we get the contradiction in 1x01 of a skater rat who hates musicals and the theater yet for some reason knows how to play guitar. He's terrified of admitting how much he loves music, because what if he's no good at it? So he'd rather hate on musicals and theater people than admit that he's secretly jealous of their talent and their courage to put themselves out there.

The thing about Ricky and Nini is that their character arcs complement each other. Remember the Troy line that Ricky quotes that I mentioned above? Compare that with the Gabriella line Nini chose:

Sounds familiar? Both Ricky and Nini feel like there's a whole other person inside of them just looking for a way to come out. Only Nini finally has the courage to let that person come out, because she spent a summer at theater camp and had EJ to see her talent and encourage her to put herself out there. Ricky still doesn't believe in himself and his talent, so he needs a lot more growth before he can be on the same path as Nini. That's why they didn't work in season 2. Instead of being the person who gives up the role of Troy when Nini needs a solid performer next to her on stage, he needs to become the person who steps up his game and gives her his all, because she deserves a great scene partner.

I think the point of Ricky's relationship with Lily in season 3 will be to get him to a point where he no longer has a choice but to admit what the things in his life are that he deeply cares about and that define who he is. I find it really likely that Ricky will once again try to coast his way through the auditions, only this time he won't magically get the lead. And his relationship with Lily will likely lead to him drifting apart from the other Wildcats. Potentially even Big Red and Nini. Once he reaches a point where he's lost Nini, Big Red, the Wildcats, and the lead (bonus points if the role he lost is Troy), he will no longer be able to pretend like he didn't actually care about any of those things, or like losing them don't hurt him. And once he feels that hurt of rejection, it's up to him to then find a way to deserve the things he wants again. He wasn't able to call the Wildcats his family in season 1, but I wouldn't be surprised if he gets to that point at the end of season 3.

And similarly, I think his relationship with Lily will make him realise that he needs to stop equating romantic relationship with personal happiness and that he shouldn't use girls who validate his talents as a way to put off defining who he is and who he wants to be. He needs to stop playing it safe, and he needs to stop trying to get a romantic relationship "right". Love will find him when he's ready. There's no ticking clock on getting it right, which is what Ricky seems to think.

I know he says that it's "weird", but I think he voices it like a question because he wants Big Red to agree with him and assure him that no, you don't just have until you're 21 to find true love. But Big Red doesn't catch on to that, and so Ricky is still left feeling that way. I think that's another mindset he'll grow out of next season, or at least won't be driven by as much anymore going forward.

Essentially, I agree that Ricky will end season 3 having made the choice to be single and to learn how to find happiness outside of a romantic relationship. He'll need to find out who he is before he's ready to commit to anyone. And I think once he becomes confident in the person he is and wants to be, Nini will be there waiting for him. Because at that point their paths will intersect and they'll be able to go forward together. They'll be able to reach for the stars together.

Gina

As for the Gina aspect of your ask, I agree that her ever pining for Ricky again would be character regression. His non-committal attitude with her made it all the easier for her to not really commit to him in return. She kept giving him outs when it came to talking about feelings and she let him get away with taking those outs (as I just talked about in this post). What Ricky did do for her is that he gave her a (false) sense of security. Once she started falling for him and spending more time with him, she started thinking that maybe things wouldn't change this time. That she could start caring about her role, the show, and the Wildcats. And that if things did start to change, she could fight it. Because that's what they did when Miss Jenn was almost fired, and it worked!

But just as Gina is finally ready to admit how much she cares about the Wildcats by excitedly telling her mom about how much fun she's having with them, the rug gets pulled out from under her and her life changes again. In a way that makes her once again feel powerless. It's in that moment and in the following days that Gina needs someone to fight for her. To show her that her life doesn't have to change and that she can have a choice. Just like Ricky voiced his fear that there's a ticking clock on finding true love as a question to Big Red, so does Gina voice this as a question:

Gina is used to not having any control over change, but, as I went into in the post I mentioned two paragraphs above, Ricky is really resistant to change and will fight it and find solutions if he cares enough. However, over the course of 1x08 and 1x09, Gina learns that Ricky didn't fight for her to stay, or at the very least come back. He tells her in 1x09 that he thought he'd never see her again. He accepted that. He's not trying to find ways to get Gina the stability she needs. He thinks that if she wants it, she'll fight for it herself.

The people that do see what Gina wants and needs and find ways to solve her problems and give her what she wants are EJ and Ashlyn. EJ buys her a plane ticket because it wouldn't be fair for her to miss opening night, and Ashlyn offers to let her stay with her for as long as she wants. Gina has always been very independent and hates admitting that she needs help, let alone asking for it, but secretly she wants people to look after her and give her a hand when she needs it. That's why EJ's sweet gestures matter so much to her, and why she's so touched by Ashlyn and Carlos constantly reaching out to her and trying to include her.

She needs people in her life who help her get the stability she craves and who encourage her to let her walls down and let people in. Ashlyn, Carlos and Nini are the people who keep doing that for her platonically (they've been given most of the focus, but that doesn't make the smaller moments with the other Wildcats doing the same thing less important), and EJ does that for her romantically. He's the one who consistently inspires Gina to grow and become a better version of herself, and the one who makes Gina feel seen and understood, instead of feeling invisible or judged. He doesn't project his own insecurities onto her, unlike Ricky (he came at her for having too much ambition, even though he's secretly jealous of her). And in turn, Gina makes EJ feel seen and understood too. Together, they've come to realise that happiness is about other people, not their achievements, and that they're not ready to leave those people behind. And they've inspired each other to become braver and more emotionally honest people. That's huge for both of them, and I don't see them ever regressing back to the people they were before they got together.

Gina needs someone who can match her ambition but who will also show up for her and can give her the stability she needs. That will never be Ricky, because he needs to learn to be brave enough to reach for the stars and come to see change as an inevitable part of life that is neither good or bad. It just is, and he needs to learn to make the best of it. That's why Ricky and Nini are a perfect fit, and why EJ and Gina work so well too. Their character arcs complement each other. And that's essential for a romantic relationship to work in fictional stories. If they can't walk the same path in life, their relationship can never work.

#hsmtmts #ricky bowen #nini salazar roberts #rini #gina porter #ej caswell #portwell #hsmtmts meta #rini meta #portwell meta #anti rina #ask #the lead up to getting all three parts of this ask was quite suspenseful #but i hope i managed to make the pay off worth it #i certainly put a lot of effort into this answer #hope you don't mind me going on and on about rini #given your shipping history you may not like them #but i think they're going to be endgame and that understanding their arc together helps you understand their individual arcs really well #anouk rambles

[leabethchase]

Now that Rini is over, this is my headcanon for a potential male love interest for Ricky if they were to make his character Bi

In my head he looks like Sam Holland (Tom Holland's brother)

He'd be the new kid in school, a foreign transfer student from England (because british accents 🤤)

He's charming with an easy going smile. He doesn't take anything too seriously. He's kind of a lone wolf, liking the quiet that comes with being by himself, though he does get along with people easily. He's also a shameless flirt when he likes someone, and that someone just happens to be one Ricky Bowen.

Ricky first sees him at the skate park. He notices almost immediately because he knows everyone at the skate park, except this dude.

He's chilling in the corner, no skateboard in sight. Instead he has a BOOK and he's READING.

Who reads at the skatepark?

Their eyes would meet and the boy would slowly give Ricky a charming grin while looking him up and down.

Ricky would freeze, suddenly unable to move, unsure why he just got nervous butterflies in his stomach. Then he'd quickly turn away and start skateboarding, hoping to get away from the new kid and his smile that caused that weird feeling

He'd feel the other boy's gaze on him the entire time and try to avoid making eye contact. He had no clue what this kid's deal was with the staring but it was starting to frenzy his nerves to the point that he almost stumbled off his board three times.

Eventually he decides to go home. On the way out he can't resist looking over, and to his confusion the boy is still watching him. The boy shoots him another smile on his way out and Ricky practically bolts out of there, wondering why the hell there were wild butterflies in his stomach

Ricky runs into him, literally, while rushing to get to class on time because of course he's running late.

When they slam into each other hands grasp his arms to make sure neither of them fall

"Oi mate, be careful there."

When Ricky meets the boys eyes his own widen in surprise and he almost curses.

Because of course it was the boy from the park. And of course he was much better looking up close. And of course he was freaking british.

Why did Ricky notice he was handsome? Why did it feel like Ricky's heart was in his throat? What was happening?

Ricky stutters out an apology and explains that he was running late for his class.

The boy just gives another one of his charming, easy going grins that Ricky has come to love hate and reassures him its alright.

The boy can probably tell that he's about to rush off again and quickly asks if he knows where room 204 is.

And Ricky could've sworn his heart stopped.

That was his chemistry class he was currently late for.

And when he tells the boy so his grin gets wider and Ricky could swear his eyes almost glitter with hidden mischief

So together they make their way to chemisty class, rushing but not nearly as frantically as Ricky had been

"I'm Jesse by the way." (Don't come for me, I love that name)

"Ricky."

And when they enter the class Ricky is met with knowing looks from his peers and a usual glare from Mr. Boden.

"Of course you're late, Bowen. New school year, same you."

Ricky cringes and kept help but be a bit hurt

"Actually it's my fault, sir. I was lost trying to find my way here and clumsy me ran into him in the hallway. We had to pick up all his stuff and then he offered to show me the way here after finding out we had the same class. I'm Jesse, by the way. Foreign transfer student."

Ricky could practically hear the girls, and even some boys, in his class swoon over the easy charm he oozed. Ricky felt a tightening in his gut as the girls all made googoo eyes at him.

Was he jealous? The fuck was that?

Mr. Boden luckily buys his story and shoos them off to the only available table in the back of the room, meaning that they would be partners for the rest of the year.

That feeling of his heart being in his throat suddenly came back.

Jesse on the other hand looked extremely pleased.

And as the class went on, soon enough Ricky was pleased as well. His nerves slowly went away, though they always idled right at the surface.

Turns out Jesse was extremely intelligent and was happy to help Ricky as much as he could

Ricky found Jesse extremely easy to talk to. He was funny and great at keeping the conversation going. They talked about the school and about themselves.

Well, actually mostly about Ricky. Jesse seemed to want to know everything about the other boy while only sparing a few details about himself.

It also turns out that Jesse knew absolutely nothing about personal space because even though they had the whole bench to sit at Jesse's stool was placed directly next to his with only an inch of space between them

Everytime their knees or arms bumped into each other Ricky could swear his heart was trying to come out of his throat, and the whole thing was very confusing

But from that class on they had four more classes together. And in each class they'd sit together and joke and get to know one another more.

And from that day on they were friends. Jesse would always be waiting at Ricky's locker in the morning with a smile that seemed to be just for him.

And usually Ricky would arrive with some kind of breakfast treat because a few days into their friendship he noticed that Jesse never ate lunch and always grew uncomfortable whenever asked. So Ricky would bring him breakfast and buy him lunch or pack him a lunch, no matter how much Jesse had originally argued against it

And Jesse helped Ricky with his homework and because of that Ricky so far has not missed a single assignment yet.

Ricky learned that Jesse lives with his grandmother, and she doesn't like loud noises, which is why after school they'll either hang out at Ricky's house, the skatepark, or Big Red's pizza place

Ricky's dad likes Jesse and is very happy Ricky is making more friends. Especially since Jesse seems to bring back the old Ricky before Nini broke his heart

And Ricky would introduce Jesse to his friends but they'd rarely hang out with them. Selfishly, Ricky knew deep down he wanted to keep Jesse to himself. And luckily Jesse seemed to not mind only having him around

But one night at Ricky's house he catches Jesse singing to himself when the brit thought Ricky was in the bathroom. And he was good.

So Ricky takes it upon himself to drag Jesse kicking and screaming to try out for the school play, something Jesse vows to get him back for. But they sing a song together and Ricky can't help but see that their voices just fit. And when they both get roles in the play Jesse can't help but be a little proud

And throughout their relationship Ricky becomes an expert at bi-panic. Any time they touch or look at each other too long his heart races. When Jesse unashamedly flirts with him he can't help but stutter. Or how his heart will completely stop whenever Jesse shoots him his smile. And during the nights Jesse spends at his house, which are becoming quite frequent because he hates being at home, Ricky can't help but admire the sleeping brit in the bed beside him, and it takes all his effort not to touch the curls falling over his forehead.

And all of it is very confusing to Ricky who had never in his life thought of a boy like that before. As cute and lovely. The same way he used to think about Nini....

And the thought is utterly terrifying

But then Jesse will smile at him and he'll calm down and suddenly he's just not that scared of the thought anymore.....

Should I write this into a fic? Or at least do a part two? Let me know!

#hsmtmts #high school musical the musical the series #ricky bowen #bi ricky bowen #joshua bassett #rini #sam holland #bisexual

[rinisbowen]

I am sending you this ask bc I know that you try to make objective analyses of the show. I just wanted to point out something that I keep seeing in many tv shows, including hsmtmts. I don't like how they romanticise the idea of someone homewrecking a relationship bc of love. What Ricky did was wrong. At least in Descendants Mal and Ben apologised to Audrey. I really hope that the show will address this in the future seasons and teach the viewers to "never put passion in front of principle".

i do try to do like- some decent analysis on this show, so I'm kinda excited to see this ask and such :) thank you for sending it!

i will note really quickly that i don't want to claim to be like- entirely objective in any whole sense of the word. no one is. our opinions are clouded by our own perceptions of what we see. it's also been like- a fairly solid amount of time since i've seen a vast majority of season 1.

another quick note: with some of this i do defend ricky as a character, because i see him get hated on quite a large amount, but this answer is critical of the actions he takes. i'm just not going to sit here condemning him wholeheartedly for being flawed, all of the characters are. we don't have to throw the baby out with the bathwater. (btw this note isn't for you specifically anon, i love talking about these types of things, just- a caveat of sorts for people who may read this).

--

there's a lot of media that does use this sort of trope, and tbh cheating which comes to mind for me here, is a lot worse for me than the homewrecking thing, i truly hate the cheating trope with a passion, but it is definitely not the greatest thing morally to actively pursue someone you know is seeing someone else.

i will say the mal, ben, and audrey triangle in descendants which i've also seen is definitely a bit complicated compared to the hsmtmts triangle, given there's like- love potions involved bc this is a fantasy universe. tbh it's a huge red flag that that's how things started between them in the first place, even if he's supposedly just properly into her regardless after the spell has been broken. idk- i don't like it. like i know there are nuances, and it's disney, so it's not that deep, but- i still really don't appreciate it. i think mal 100% owed audrey an apology though, honestly she owed an apology to ben too for controlling and manipulating him.

you're right that ricky shouldn't have tried to get between ej and nini. it wasn't fair to nini to continue pursuing her this way and ignoring that she was with ej (nor was it fair to ej, but obviously ricky has no loyalties to ej, so that doesn't necessarily matter to the same extent).

to the writing's credit- i think it's SO important that a) we see that nini does still love ricky, particularly when she sings all i want in 1.04 "this song's still for you", which is then reinforced obviously when she initiates their second almost kiss in 1.08 (meaning we're not supposed to be against him in wanting her back), and b) that nini and ej don't end things because of ricky's pursuit of nini.

we can argue the nuances of that whole voicemail situation all day, and ricky was probably overstepping by sending it, but it's not his actions that cause the breakup. it's ej's own reckless choices that do. ej was right to be jealous about ricky in a way, because we find out that nini does like ricky, but at the same time, it is a trust thing. ej should be able to trust his girlfriend. that was going to be an issue regardless.

ej and nini weren't right for each other, and it's obvious this was just a stepping stone for rini to get back together, but you're absolutely right, that ricky wasn't being a good friend to nini in his pursuit of her, which is- arguably, what she needed at the time. they were best friends before they dated, and while it wasn't going to go right back to that, i think that's kind of what would've been her own best case scenario, just friendship of some kind. after their breakup in the hallway, he was definitely hurt, and that's okay, but while bettering himself to be worthy of nini's eye is positive behavior and isn't inherently an issue, actively trying to get between her and ej (which is where this gets complicated), is a problem.

it's a complicated situation, with a less complicated framing, where we sort of see ricky going after nini who's ej's girlfriend and it's like at first we see nini and we're like oh she's happy what's this idiot who broke her heart trying to do now... but then we see that it's not that simple. but then it is that simple at the same time.

even if nini isn't necessarily 100% satisfied with her relationship with ej, that doesn't make it more morally right to get between them. how much of his actions were to put a wedge between nini and ej versus how much was to prove himself to her, is where the morality kinda balances for me, and honestly- i don't know how much falls on either side.

i do want to note that i don't find what he does here any more morally reprehensible than any of the other characters' actions that we're also supposed to more or less brush over, but you're absolutely right that he's not exactly mr. perfect. in the same way we learn ej isn't, even though that's how ej is introduced. (which is funny bc we sorta meet ricky more through how he broke nini's heart, but then we learn that he is a really good guy who really does care for her.)

ricky does give up trying to pursue nini after some time, because he realizes that well- it's not fair to her. i love that ricky can't have nini's eye until he's sort of decided he probably can't have her. it's the same sort of thing as how gina was never going to get a lead until she stopped feeling entitled to one. (tbh in my mind this is the first season she's actively in contention for a lead role and i'm excited for her). as long as ricky thought that he could have nini back and continued on that assumption, he was never going to be able to, but he learned, and he grew, and he was able to deserve her again.

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as to the show addressing this in the future, given there's been no real like- ej / nini / ricky related issue since season 1, beyond i suppose you could say the conversation in 2.10 about "letting her go", i doubt we're going to have much chance at a conversation about this whole ordeal. they could prove me wrong, because if season 3 is, as i suspect, at the same camp nini and ej went to pre-season 1, they might take the opportunity for ricky to be like hey, ej, i'm sorry for trying to break you and nini up, that wasn't fair. and ej'll be like hey it's fine, we weren't exactly right for each other anyway. if they do it, it'll probably be very quick and dismissive.

i say this because the way the whole narrative was framed, the ej and nini relationship would've ended anyway, even if not for ricky's interferences, and then also because we're so far past that point now. heck ricky and nini aren't even together anymore. if we were going to get any kind of real conversation between ricky and ej about this, it would've had to happen early season 2. especially given ej and ricky seem pretty much chill in season 2 by and large. they're not like- particularly close, but they're not cold to one another by any means. ej being completely over nini (2.10) kinda closes off any real reason the show has to feel the need to address it.

i want to see the callbacks to the ej/nini relationship go on with the summer camp season, i think it's a waste not to use it in some way, but that's another post for sure. not because of ej and nini's relationship, but because of the vibes. i love a good parallel moment.

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lowkey i very much love the phrasing there, "passion in front of principle", because that's what the situation is at its core.

it's what i hate about the cheating trope. i think the person in the relationship is obviously the most at fault when there's cheating involved, but knowingly getting involved with someone you're aware is in a relationship isn't great either.

i don't think that's necessarily a lesson this show plans on teaching, because to me so much of the show is about following your heart even when that's not the easiest thing. that theme plays out in a lot of ways across the narrative, but i think leading with your heart is why nini ends up with ricky necessarily instead of ej, and why that oh so heavily promoted triangle is so easily decided between for viewers of season 1. nini's heart is with ricky even if ej is the smart choice maybe, he's "perfect on paper". it's why nini comes home from yac even though her moms have had to do so much to be able to afford it and even though it's what she thought she wanted.

i think it's a good lesson, for like- real people, that you should behave in a more moral way and not let your own feelings get in the way of how you treat other people, but in terms of this show, i just- wouldn't anticipate it.

#hsmtmts #hsmtmts: analysis #hsmtmts: ricky bowen #hsmtmts: meta #answered #anonymous #descendants #anti bal #(not necessarily anti but... not friendly) #ship: ej x nini ( hsmtmts ) #ship: ricky x nini ( hsmtmts ) #//it's not really containing a ton about either ship but- i think for categorization of posts it's worth tagging

[gracestone]

I saw your tags on the photoset of Nini introducing herself to her followers as Nini where you point out that when she called Jamie, she introduced herself as Nini. Do you think that might be a hint that there's still hope for Rini is s3?

Define what you mean by "hope for Rini in s3". Cause if we're specifically talking about them getting back together, then my answer would be: no, it's too soon. But if we're talking about their love story continuing, then I'd say: yes, of course.

I don't really look at Rini's story on a season by season basis, because I don't think that's how the writers are approaching this story either. I think they have an arc for Rini in mind that consists of them having to grow as individuals before growing back together, and that arc needs time to play out. Right now, Ricky is still mostly clinging to what he knows in order to try and make himself feel safe and happy. And he hates change more than ever because he still sees it as inherently negative.

Meanwhile, Nini essentially did the opposite of him in season 2. In season 1, she wrote Out Of The Old, in which she was wondering if she needed to leave Salt Lake ("I wish these streets were still enough for me, I wish this town could give me everything") and her name ("If no one knew my name, would my wildest dreams feel like home?") behind in order to pursue her dreams and become who she wants to be. Nini wanted to go "out of the old, into the new". And she did in season 2. First she went to Denver, and she eventually realised that she felt more creative freedom and more happy back at East High. She couldn't truly be herself at YAC. And then she tried leaving her past with Ricky behind when she went by Nina online. Nini had always been so tied to Ricky and since Nini has a tendency to define herself by who she is to him instead of who she is, period, she thought she needed to leave her past behind entirely in order to feel like herself. But the fact that she never told her friends to call her Nina already told us that it never truly felt right to her. And ultimately, when she was given this huge opportunity to break through in the industry in the finale, she called herself Nini. Because she's come to realise that her past makes her just as much who she is as what she does now. She doesn't need to leave it all behind to feel like herself.

Nini realised that she could still hold onto her past while moving forward, because that's a part of herself. Now, Ricky needs to realise that he has to keep moving forward and that he can't just cling to what he already knows just because he's scared of change. Ricky and Nini need to eventually meet in the middle, and I'm confident they will eventually.

Ricky is a few steps behind Nini in his development, so I think season 3 will be focussed on him making those steps and getting to a point by the end of the season where he's less scared to try new things that he's passionate about and open to defining himself in new ways. He has quite the journey to go on, and I don't think he'll be thinking about getting back with Nini. Mostly because I don't think he'll feel like he deserves her or that she'd want to get back together.

If anything, I can see season 3 ending with Nini being the one who is left behind in the dressing room after opening night, just like Ricky was in season 2, and her being the one wanting to get back together but holding herself back from saying anything. Especially if Ricky finally has come to the realisation that he's been seeing romantic relationships (mostly Gina and Lily) as the only way to be truly happy, and he's now realising that he needs to learn to be happily single in order to ever truly be happy, and he voices all of that to Nini. She'll likely be able to get to a point in season 3 where she's fully capable of not letting herself be defined by who she is to the boy she loves, and that in turn would allow her to fully be herself in a relationship. And since she obviously still loves Ricky as much as he loves her, I can see her starting to show that again once Ricky starts growing in a more permanent way. But she wouldn't say that to him if he's not in a place where he can be with anyone.

If I had to guess how Rini's story is gonna play out, I'd say that season 3 could end with Nini paralleling Ricky in their 2x12 opening night scene, season 4 with Nini paralleling Ricky's love confession in 1x10, and season 5 with the two of them realising they're going to the same college and going out into the world together. But that's just a wild guess, based on how much these writers love giving Rini parallels and where I think their story is going.

Also, keep in mind that this is all written based on the canon story. I don't feel comfortable talking about and speculating on how BTS issues could potentially influence the story because it's not my place to do so. Especially since I don't personally know any of these people and will never have a full picture of the situation. So any speculation of mine is purely based on the story of the show itself.

#hsmtmts #ricky bowen #nini salazar roberts #rini #rini meta #hsmtmts speculation #rini speculation #ask

[rinisbowen]

As a rina, we do get stereotyped as delusional which I think can be unfair at times. Like you said, there’s not a lot off the table for us so we can make inferences and theorize more than other ships can. I also think some people take harmless fun theories from our end too seriously. All shipping comes with a fun amount of delusion, headcanons, theories so why shame people for enjoying that aspect (not you)?

Something that I do find funny is even though we do get that stereotype, rina’s are really good at interpreting the show as it’s being told. We may not agree with it or like it, but we do see what is being given to us and hinted at. I remember a lot of people thought we were crazy for calling out that rini wouldn’t last after seeing the last two episodes of season 1 but alas. Some people was caught up in the emotional confession and them getting back together, but decided to ignore the subtext and foreshadowing that we got from ricky’s conversation with his mom, his charcter arc the whole season when it came to change, and nini’s arc when it came to her independence and confidence. We look at what Tim says in interviews and what we’re shown in the show to try make sense of what we have seen and will see in future seasons. I don’t what to generalize other people in the fandom as I know firsthand how it feels, but SOME people take what we get literally and at face value rather than looking at what the narrative is trying to lead to. So yeah, I guess we can be called delusional for having hope for all these years and making theories that may or not happen, but no one can say that we have never been right.

hi anon! thanks for the ask.

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it's sorta funny in a way, because rina doesn't have a ton that is concretely on the table, but there's also not a lot that's explicitly off the table as of right now. so as i said before- there's a lot more room for like- coming up with different theories about stuff.

and that's sort of the thing isn't it- fan theories and headcanons and the like are harmless. there's just got to be a better word than just "delusional"... bc i may not agree with someone's understanding of something, and i may even be right about the way the story is being told, but calling people delusional isn't really- the nicest.

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i don't know if the rina fandom specifically is necessarily better at interpreting the show, so much as that you've been forced to read between the lines more, because that's where your hopes lie. that means that you're maybe capturing some of the smaller details that others maybe don't so much because you're paying more attention to them.

ricky goes all in with nini at the end of season 1, despite his mom's words to him. i usually try to keep my rini hat locked away for the most part because i'm not going to change anyone's mind and my asks aren't ever about them... so i try not to get too into the rini related aspects of these questions that are mostly being used as examples. but i'll note this quickly: do lynne's words open that up as a possible plotline for season 2? yes. had ricky and nini already outgrown each other when they get back together in season 1? i truly don't think so, and i'd be willing to explain if anyone wanted me to. (ngl if anyone's curious about anything related to ricky and nini's relationship and respective trajectories in general i'd be happy to talk about it.)

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your point about people taking the narrative at face value is an interesting one, because on one hand i agree, it's really neat to look at trajectory down the line. but then at least for general audiences, which is who these sorts of projects are at least to some extent written for... the point is to just enjoy what you're getting in real time as you get it, with a few hanging threads in between episodes to keep you interested. so i really don't think there's actually anything wrong with watching the show and taking what we get literally. i'd argue that's the idea in some ways.

like in season 1, regardless of what any individual's actual personal feelings were, by the end, we were supposed to root for ricky and nini to get back together, and that's how the general audience viewed the show. that remains true even if there was a passionate rina fanbase that grew over the course of the season, like- tim was taken by surprise by all of that, to my understanding.

like yes, there's absolutely a positive side to getting invested to what might happen down the line, that's a lot of what fandom is rooted in imo- things that might be rather than what is. but i don't think anyone who takes things at face value is actually misinterpreting the show. they're just interpreting what we have, rather than what might be. neither is an inherently better way to consume content.

now to cap that off real quick though because i don't want to come off as saying speculating a lot is bad at all, it really isn't. i mean a lot of what this blog that i'm posting on right now is me speculating about stuff, and working off of what we've seen so far to try to do so. i just don't think that there is actually one concrete future laid out even when including the subtext, which is what i'm trying to explore here. by having these sort of conversations, i'm just looking at ideas of a whole lot of maybes. for me it all sorta comes back to those few words i repeat a lot in these answers:

"we just don't know"

#hsmtmts #discourse #fandom #answered #anonymous #//btw anon none of the last section is directed at you i promise i just- you got me thinking and then i rambled for a bit haha #queue