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i-turned-the-emperor-to-dust · 10 months

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EMILIE VS AMELIE DEBATE

I know this is a hot topic at the moment, leaning heavily in Amelie’s favor, but I'm still convinced it's Emilie, and that a lot of people are going to have a rude awakening once Season 6 hits.

So, just to clarify.

I know the leaks aren't "canon" and that they should be disregarded, but in all fairness, how? It's impossible to pretend we didn't see something when we obviously did, and these leaks were EVERYWHERE. Most of us didn't seek them out; we stumbled across them when we didn't want to.

But even if you disregard the leaks, there are enough context clues to support the Emilie argument anyway. So we'll get back to that.

First of all, WHY would Gabriel be okay leaving Adrien an orphan? In Emilie's video, she spoke as if Gabriel would be there to raise him in her place . . . but after getting cataclysmed, he knew that was no longer an option.

So if he really had a "change of heart" wouldn't it make more sense not to make a wish at all? Why is it okay to sacrifice himself to save Natalie but not Emilie? Yes, Natalie cares for Adrien, but she's not his mother. I refuse to believe that after everything he sacrificed, Gabriel would just shrug and decide, "Oh well. Adrien will be fine without us. I'll respect Emilie's decision and save Natalie instead."

…Natalie. Who ignored the video too and helped him terrorize Paris for nearly nine months? Who used the peacock miraculous willingly even after knowing what it would do? Who eventually defied him at every turn and even put him in a headlock?

He’s okay saving her because she didn’t request it in a video? 🤨🧐

And if he can only "theoretically" save one, why would he EVER choose his secretary over the love of his life? Over Adrien's own mother?!

I mean, I know Natalie was a good secretary, but damn! 😅

So just to recap: This is a video he had already seen, a video that failed to prevent him from becoming Hawkmoth in the first place. Yet now, right on the cusp of having his wish granted, he suddenly chooses to respect her last wishes??

A wish that would leave their “miracle” without a parent??

Doesn’t it make more sense if his epiphany was actually this: Emilie doesn’t want him to sacrifice someone in order to bring her back to life—

“No one should have their life stolen from them because of a mistake that we made.”

—so he finally hears her, and resolves that no one else will take her place?

After all, Gabriel’s life is already forfeit, so he doesn’t need to trade someone’s life for hers. So by choosing to sacrifice himself instead of an innocent, he’s respecting Emilie’s wishes, ensuring Adrien won’t be alone, and fulfilling his goal to bring his beloved wife back to life.

It’s not like he wanted to live without her anyway. 🤷‍♀️

And that decision IS huge because it means Gabriel is finally giving up on his ultimate goal: To reunite all three of them as a family. That’s the big "wake-up" call he gets, not that he shouldn't make a wish at all or that Natalie deserves it more.

Like he told Ladybug . . . originally, he was willing to sacrifice anyone:

“In order to bring Emilie back, someone else will have to disappear! In order to heal the wound that Cat Noir inflicted on me, someone else will have to be wounded!”

“Someone else. But who?”

“Anyone. No one matters except us.”

That's why he asked Marinette to keep his secret. He really was making a sacrifice by giving his son the parent he deserves, rather than damning an innocent so they could both be in his life.

He could have been selfish. He could have made the decision to save himself anyway.

But he saw his wife’s video.

But what about balance?! How could he bring two people back?!

This show retcons like no other. Trust me, they'll find some BS reason to explain how it was possible. They'll either use Gabriel's lines about the "heart and soul" to explain it away; or they'll claim he wished the peacock miraculous was never broken, so neither woman was technically ever ill.

The possibilities are endless. They'll think of something, or pretend they never said it. 🤭

Either way, again - why would he choose Natalie over Emilie??

Then there's the other context clues.

If Gabriel used his wish to cure Natalie, then why is "Amelie" the main focus in this shot? Shouldn't she be in the background so there's no confusion?

I've read: "But Amelie should be at that party!"

Why? Not every significant adult was there. Tom and Sabine weren’t? And there’s one very obvious reason why Amelie isn’t: If she's there and that's Emilie, then the jig is up. If both twins attended, then the mystery would be solved, there'd be no debate, and we'd all know that Adrien's mother is back. It's the same reason crucial shots were cut from the storyboards.

They're trying to create buzz, mystery, and anticipation for season 6. It's simple marketing. They really don't need another reason, guys.

But let's listen to Astruc and look at the final scene closer.

Why is Emilie's memorial statue removed? Symbolism? No, it's because she's alive. Why did the mansion suddenly get a flowery, idyllic update? Is Amelie helping Adrien process his grief by installing a swimming pool? No, it's probably because Emilie is back. Why is Adrien smiling and happy, and free to make out with his girlfriend so soon after losing his father? Because he hated Gabriel? No, it’s because his sadness is mitigated by his mother's miraculous return.

Adrien loved his father. Even after everything he put him through, he never stopped caring. So even if he did die for a good cause, it’s normal that he’d be sad and depressed. The fact that he isn’t absolutely traumatized is yet another reason why that has to be Emilie.

For me, nothing makes sense otherwise.

These kids are celebrating something, and it can't just be Monarch's defeat, not when the cost was Adrien's father and they're having this party at his house. There are a million other places they could've gathered to commemorate the end of Monarch terrorizing Paris.

But it makes perfect sense if it was Emilie's idea. If Emilie is trying to cheer her son up following the “martyrdom” of his father. It's not like Natalie or Amelie would've suggested it, and I doubt it was Adrien or Marinette's idea or any of their friends. They know Adrien's grieving, so I doubt "let's throw a party" would've entered any of their minds.

But Emilie . . . planting flowers, bringing life back into the house. It fits.

And if a Tibetan temple can suddenly reappear after being destroyed 172 years ago and nobody bats an eye, then why can't a fashion mogul's wife? For her, it's only been a year 🙄. And as an explorer/adventurer, there are soooo many ways they could explain her return. The only thing limiting them is imagination.

And let's be real, most of us had a gut reaction at her appearance and it was "OMG, is that Emilie?!" It wasn't until Thomas Astruc baited us and this theory started making its rounds that we suddenly started second-guessing ourselves.

Apparently what we "need" is to be gaslit constantly?

Because story and character-wise, if that's not Emilie, then what did Hawkmoth/Shadow Moth/Monarch even die for? He literally wasted nine months terrorizing Paris for what? A commemorative statue? 😅 I mean, I knew he was incompetent, but that takes serious skill.

And finally, back to the leaks.

Now that the finale has aired, and spoilers are less of an issue, here's a friendly reminder that yes, leaked scenes do exist that seem to hint heavily at an answer. If you're trying to pretend they don't or are claiming the moral high ground, then by all means, don’t look. However, I still think it’s only fair to include ALL the evidence, not only what’s convenient or Astruc-approved. And since these leaks are already out there (by no fault of our own), it’s too late to shove them back into their box and pretend they don’t exist.

So if you’re curious and want to know all the facts as they currently stand, then click below.

(⚠️ There ARE leaks below ⚠️)

Here's that lingering shot everyone was demanding from the finale: It exists in limbo as a deleted scene on the cutting room floor.

And I know some people are claiming the writers simply "changed their minds" but they can't just suddenly decide that's not Emilie. A change THAT significant can't be made on a whim. It would've shaped the ENTIRE story moving forward. This had to be something they had planned from very early on in the season, if not sooner. Not a choice that was made during last minute editing.

Plus, there's the following scene to consider: In the script, Adrien says his mother gave him the rings, but in the storyboard, you can clearly tell that the line was dubbed over and suddenly changed to Ladybug.

So why remove these scenes at all?

Again, to keep the outcome of the wish a mystery. It's to drum up interest for Season 6, that's all. Anything they lost by omitting them can be rectified in the next season: This show LOVES to backtrack.

Lastly, there's this. The 3D model is even marked Emilie:

I’m sure there are things I’m forgetting, but I think that covers most of it.

So in conclusion: Even though the internet has done a fine job trying to convince us it’s Amelie in that final scene, I still think there's much better reason to believe it really is Emilie.

You're not required to agree, but I had to throw this out there because I'm seeing a lot of people getting vocal and loud about one side of the argument, and seeing relatively little on the other side. So if you've read this far, consider this a friendly way of preparing you in case season 6 does end up going in this direction.

It's better than convincing yourselves otherwise and being blindsided later on.

#miraculous ladybug #ml recreation #ml recreation spoilers #ml season 5 spoilers #ml season 5 finale #emilie agreste #ml season 5 #emilie vs amelie theories #ml confrontation #amelie graham de vanily #enjoy this while you can #I wouldn't be shocked if it got pulled #gabriel is still an ass #don't be mistaken #what kind of arc ends with a pointless self-sacrifice?#let Adrien be happy #(that final scene was the ONLY thing I was spoiled on)#although I really thought it was a dream #stupid twitter

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fellhellion · 9 months

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Granted, the Doylist reason for this is likely just that PAD doesn’t often develop/have characters speak on how they conceptualise their cultural identity, but from a Watsonian perspective idk. I think a lot about the stuff that goes unsaid when it comes to 90s run Miguel’s relationship with his heritage. In that, it seems like it's something he has an emotional investment in even if he doesn't really speak on it.

Like, buying such an expensive thing as a costume for dia de los muertos made from unstable molecular fabric, but just claiming you only did so because your clothes would get totalled otherwise. Idk, to me that implies more investment and interest than the casual front Miguel projects about it, especially when like, there are less costly solutions to that issue.

Or the way Miguel openly rebuffs people anglicising his name, leading me to think at least that him (as the character lmao) not speaking a lot to his relationship to his heritage doesn't come from a place of not wanting to be associated with it.

And like, given the context of this being a guy who has enough trouble fumbling general emotional vulernability with his family and friends (and in general is pretty emotionally isolated), I think it's plausible that for all that he may want/consider reconnecting with his roots, he wouldn't really be someone to seek out a community to facilitate that.

#idk. i find it interesting to consider.#especially when you have little details like no evidence of conchata speaking to boys in spanish when they were kids (and george being #someone who would plausibly forbid that BECAUSE he was such a controlling abusive ass who wouldnt want his wife to be able to 'hide' things #from him) but gabriel and miguel will speak a little spanish to one another occassionally.#VERY occasionally haha. but still. interesting tidbits.#idk id be interested to hear/read perspectives from people on the idea who have that similar #lived experience.#tunes talks 2099 #christ i never shut up abt this guy #long post

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