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tuktukpodfics · 1 year

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The Problem With "Dao Swords": My love-hate relationship with pleonastic translations

An essay that no one asked for.

A lot of fanfics call Zuko’s broadswords “dao swords.” As a Chinese to English translator, this phrase makes me pause every time. Here is my humble opinion on “dao swords” and other pleonastic translations:

What the heck is a pleonastic translation?

I’m so glad you asked! “Pleonasm” is a fancy term for a redundant phrase, like “black darkness” or “burning fire.”

A pleonastic translation is a phrase that puts the source language and the translation back-to-back. A common example is “chai tea” which literally means “tea tea.”

“Dao swords” is a pleonastic translation. “Dao” 刀 is the Chinese blanket term for blade. The phrase basically means “sword swords.” Sounds pretty silly, right?

Pleonastic translations are bad?

I think it depends on your audience, the text purpose, and how special the word is.

In advertising, pleonastic translations can help increase a product’s searchability. Ex: “Longjing Dragonwell tea” would appear in a Google search for either “longjing” or “dragonwell.”

Tourist destinations often use pleonastic translations to help foreigners navigate. Ex: “Nanzhan South Station” on a map helps foreigners know what the place is, but also gives them the Chinese pronunciation so that they can communicate with their taxi driver.

In literature, a pleonastic translation is a succinct way to introduce a culturally significant term without a footnote or distracting tangent. A lot of translators will sneak in a pleonastic translation the first time the word appears in a text, and then use the untranslated term alone every time after. Ex: "He slouched on the kang bed-stove. His grandmother sighed and took a seat on the kang too.”

Is "dao" a culturally significant word?

No.

Dao is a super mundane word used to describe any kind of single-edged blade, from butter knives to ice skates. It feels weird to keep such a normal word untranslated. Using the Chinese word emphasizes its foreignness. They’re not just swords, they’re special, Chinese swords.

Yes, words take on different meanings as they pass from culture to culture. That’s how language works. But English is also a unique case. Because of imperialism. I think English speakers have an obligation to avoid exotifying every-day words.

Also, English is a global language. Chinese speakers are reading your translation, and…I dunno...“sword swords” feels off putting. Disruptive.

But I want to acknowledge the real-life culture behind the swords

Giving credit to the cultures that you're borrowing from is an A+ idea.

...I don't know how to do this in a fantasy setting.

Zuko’s swords and fighting style is based on oxtail sabers (牛尾刀）and Shaolin dual broadswords (少林双刀). @atlaculture has a very cool post on oxtail sabers. But calling his swords "oxtail sabers" doesn't work because cows don't exist in atla. Shaolin is a type of martial arts that originates from Shaolin temple in Henan, China (Shaolin itself literally means “young forest”). But you can’t call them “Shaolin broadswords," since Shaolin does not exist in the Fire Nation.

It’s quite a pickle.

Maybe just use a footnote?

So what should I call Zuko’s swords?

I don’t know.

I think you can just call them broadswords. That’s what the TV show calls them.

Dao by itself could work too if you need to differentiate Zuko's dao from Sokka's jian (double-edged blade). Readers can probably figure out what dao means from context.

If it’s not clear from context what dao means? *sigh* ..."Dao swords" it is, I guess.

To end on a happier note, here is a video of Chang Zhizhao busting some sweet moves.

youtube

#atla #dao swords #shaolin #zuko #transaltion #dual broadswords #thank you for coming to my tedtalk #Youtube

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mochipong · 1 month

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Some nightmare

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Knight of swords card design for the Song of Clarity tarot project on Twitter⚔️

#mdzs #my art #wei wuxian #digital art #procreate #fanart #mdzs fanart #digital illustration #mxtx #魔道祖师 #grandmaster of demonic cultivation #mo dao zu shi #魏无羡 #knight of swords

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ivorysodapop · 4 months

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(Suibian is also amused)

AU Masterlist

#it's the baby lans but even babier!#Suibian sealed itself bc WWX wasn't around. I'm sure it doesn't mind temporarily being named smth for his protection #also we can pretend Suibian wasn't in that famous swords texts thing. they hate WWX anyway fuck his sword #digital #mdzs #mo dao zu shi #mo xuanyu #wei wuxian #lan jingyi #lan sizhui #ghostdadxian au #edit: the sword has now been changed from Meishi to Bieti :) find the conversation in the reblogs!#I also kinda like that it sounds closer to suibian... bieti... also bichen! all the bs in this family

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colinarcartperson · 1 year

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I had the absolute pleasure of working on some more Dragon Age themed commissions for the always wonderful @ohmyarda

This was the first one of her lovely Tabris character!

As always please check out their art if you haven’t already~

#art #art commission #illustration #blood #sword #dragon age #dao #dragon age orgins #tabris #figure #portrait #wedding #fantasy art #da

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adriancatrin · 6 months

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there’s actually no threat they’re just posing

#my art #i tried to color this traditionally and then twice digitally and i disliked all of it so whatever here’s the lines #if anyone wants to color it feel free #zukka #atla #avatar the last airbender #sokka #zuko #i scribbled that bg down so fast. felt illegal tbh #i didn’t use references so their anatomy is a bit weird #also? i hate drawing swords. esp dao #u can imagine how much that sucks when you’re zukka nation

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arkvra · 4 months

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You should let them meet and discuss "Demonic Cultivation"

Or you can choose them

Another reminder it's Guidao (Ghost Path) for wei wuxian

#i think it would be 'fun' to let them meet #i need to see two geniuses have a talk #one spicy food #one sweet food #return of mount hua sect #return of the blossoming blade #화산귀환 #mo dao zu shi #mdzs #魔道祖師 #the grandmaster of demonic cultivation #wei wuxian #wei ying #yilling laozu #yilling patriarch #cheong myeong #chung myung #plum blossom sword saint

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badass-queer-couples-battle · 3 months

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Sword gays showdown, round 2, bracket three

Propaganda:

For Lan Wangji:

Peak "while-you-were-being-heterosexual-I-studied-the-blade" energy. He canonically falls in love with & marries another man (the protagonist) who he sticks with and believes in the entire time, even wielding his sword against the elders of his cultivation Sect. He also wields a guqin (a large stringed Chinese instrument), but I think he uses Bichen, his sword, more often / as a primary weapon.

For Amaya:

Badass super strong disabled lesbian general who can and will take you out. Doesn't need a sword to punch you into next week, but will use one anyway.

She’s married to another sword gay and she’s also disabled so I love her very much

First deaf character I saw in any cartoon, she's very badass and protects her kingdom's border, later falls in love with an elf warrior princess she once fought. In the new season, they're planning their wedding while trying to navigate political tensions between the elf society and humans. Some of the elves aren't super into the idea of a human marrying one of them, which isn't for homophobic reasons but still (I believe) meant to mirror real world conservatives (really liked a scene with Janai's brother telling Amaya she's fine as a girlfriend for Janai but actually *marrying* her is too controversial and political. Whoever wrote this did a really good job).

She’s currently engaged to another lady, she uses a sword, is a general badass.

General Amaya is a standard sword lesbian with a cool shield and some funny "lines" example: "This bread is...." *bashes bread on table with no damage to the bread* "Weapons grade"

#sword gays showdown #lan wangji #general amaya #the dragon prince #mo dao zu shi #mdzs #tdp #the untamed

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yingandzhan · 4 months

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Something just got me thinking...

Suibian is a truly loyal sword, it refused to let anyone else use it and did what was only ever heard of in legends and sealed itself away when its master died!

The sword is monogamous. It only connected with one person and no one else would do. No one else could compare.

Spiritual weapons have a deep connection with their wielders, they are constantly permeated with their owner's spiritual energy. They are, in a way, an extension of their master.

So, it makes perfect sense that Suibian is monogamous. Because it's quite obvious that WWX is as well. WWX only ever had eyes for one person, he only ever connected to one other person in such a deep, life changing way. No one else would do, no one else could ever compare to that boy that stole his undivided attention on the Cloud Recesses rooftop the first night they met.

It was always LWJ for him, just as it was always WWX for Suibian.

Like master, like sword.

#mdzs #mo dao zu shi #wei wuxian #lan wangji #wangxian #mdzs novel #suibian #so loyal #and before some stans jump on this #suibian recognised WWX's golden core when it was JC #that's all #the sword is tricked into think he is WWX #what's really sweet is that suibian is able to recognise it's true owner even in a new body #with new (very low) spiritual energy #it just shows the deep connection WWX has with his sword #suibian recognised his beautiful soul ❤️

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twistedappletree · 10 months

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Can I just scream about these two for a minute??

Lan Sizhui and Lan Jingyi are so capable, so strong, so fluid and in harmony together as cultivators. Even Wei Wuxian himself is impressed by how skilled they are at such a young age.

And really, who would expect any less from Lan Clan disciples who’ve learned from the Twin Jades of Lan? But these two go so far beyond that. They are, in every sense of the phrase, core disciples. Trusted enough to handle situations like Mo Manor on their own, skilled enough to subdue something as resentful as the arm—something they’ve probably never come across in their short years of training, and determined enough to not give up even when the situation becomes dire and seems impossible.

You can give most of the credit to their seniors if you want but their level of cultivation wouldn’t be this high if they themselves didn’t put in the work, dedication and self-discipline to supersede all expectations and harness their full potential.

My boys deserve some goddamn respect on their names and that’s final. ⚔️

{ Footage from S1/EP1 of the MDZS Donghua }

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