#asoiaf fandom critical

[cyrankaa]

Asoiaf fandom after making every canonically fat character skinny in fanwork

#asoiaf #a song of ice and fire #grrm #asoiaf fandom critical

[throwawayasoiafaccount]

rhaenyra, rhaegar, and daenerys aren’t perfect victims so they sadly don’t get the sansa/elia/alicent treatment by delusional stans.

#i love you my complex and interesting and beautiful targaryens #they could never make me hate my silver haired beauties #anti sansa stans #anti alicent stans #anti elia stans #i’m very annoyed today and the targ hate i’m seeing on my feed is making me see red #i must’ve blocked over twenty accounts istg they’re termites infecting this whole fandom #asoiaf fandom critical

[artcinemas]

asoiaf fandom post 2018 is so wild like if i say something like "i love arya/sansa" this three word sentence will get misinterpreted as "oh so you hate sansa/arya then why do you hate feminine/non confirming women?" like hold up?!? when did i say that?

#arya stans vs sansa stans beef is wild i cannot block any more people to scour through edits and fics #like ha ha bhai yeh karlo pehle #smh #asoiaf fandom critical #anti asoiaf fandom #asoiaf #anti toxicity #anti toxic fandom #THE BLAME SOLELY GOES TO D&D THOUGH #as a stark sister enjoyer seeing these two get pit each other like regina sucks bhai #already these two children have so much on their plate aur saas bahu esque drama add karna hai tum logo ko #smh smh #that's why i hate fandomposting with irls they have the most deadass dumb takes

[watcherintheweyr]

Literally never been misgendered as often as the asoiaf and acotar fandom misgenders me lmao

#wild shit man #acotar fandom critical #asoiaf fandom critical

[bibiundtinaundzombies]

watching people like and reblog my stuff like they wouldn’t skin me ramsay snow style if my english was good enough to channel my thoughts about their faves into something other than violently unfunny shitposts.

#asoiaf #asoiaf fandom critical #you should see how much of a hater i am in german

[aifsaath]

Sigh.

It's 2023 A.D. and my beef with Houses Stark and Blackwood continues.

Is it too much to wish for all houses to be treated the same in the terms of the narrative impact ? Why are only some houses called out for the despicable/dishonorable/downright stupid choices, while these two get away with anything? Alright, the main novel series have Starks fuck around and find out, but still... the fandom!starks are a bunch of insufferable Mary sues and you can't really change my impression

#house stark critical #house blackwood critical #mary sue in asoiaf #grrm critical #asoiaf fandom critical

[witheredoffherwitch]

Y'ALL CAN EXCUSE RACISM?

Let's get one thing straight: I have no part in this chaotic mess (infact, I have blocked all the accounts mentioned below), but it's grinding my gears how it's devolving into another petty fanfic drama: case 607. I know this drama is getting the attention for certain individuals who are demonstrating mean girl behaviour and gossiping about other writers behind their backs. However, I am solely focused on addressing the racist and discriminatory remarks made by these individuals in the leaked text messages.

For those not in the loop, there's been a huge drama in the fanfic community involving leaked text messages from a group chat of four prominent members. In these messages, two users - Fae and Bel - have admitted to sending hate anons and talking smack about other writers behind their backs. Two other members left the group after it was revealed that B tried to make amends with someone who these two, Em and Ange, don't particularly care for. As a move to clear their names, Em exposed all the texts, trying to prove that Fae and Bel are the real villains here.

But wait, there's more! In these same chats, Bel not only mocked fellow non-English speakers but also bragged about sending rat emojis to an 18-year-old Pakistani writer who was already receiving racist anons. While everyone is focused on getting back at these two women for being shady af, it's mind-boggling how Em and Ange are suddenly jumping on the anti-racism train.

These two ladies stayed in the same chat as a fellow Pakistani writer was driven away because of racism, knowing full well that one of their own was contributing to it, and said NOTHING! Zero discouragement, no condemnation - they only hopped off when things got personal.

So here it is… I've had it with all of you hypocrites. You praise and encourage these women at every turn, feeding their egos like they're the second coming of Beyonce. But let's not forget who's always stirring up drama in this fandom - hint: it's these same people with a sense of entitlement the size of a planet. The issue is groupthink and y'all have all jumped on the bandwagon. You're worse than HBO's marketing department because just like their shitty teams, everyone involved here SUCKS ASS. You don't have to pick a side because they are all petty, mean losers. Bel and Fae are facing the consequences of their actions, which they rightfully deserve.

However, Em's exposé on Bel's racism seems more like an opportunistic move and it's disappointing that so many of you are supporting it. It's a predictable cycle now; there will be a half-hearted apology, an announcement of a hiatus, and then tons of people will flock to their inboxes to shower them with praise and excuses. It's ridiculous! I know there are many who feel the same way as me but are afraid to speak up because they don't want to upset the "village elders" and risk losing their connections and engagements. It's a joke atp!

Instead of taking responsibility for their own wrongdoings, they will come up with a list of 10 different cyber crimes by others to divert attention from their own nonsense. These very same women have confessed to creating multiple fake accounts, secretly stalking servers without mods noticing, and constantly harassing individuals through anon messages.

Yet, we are supposed to consider them as examples of moral integrity and ethical behavior? 😒

#fandom racism #fandom critical #house of the dragon #aemond targaryen #hotd #asoiaf #anti hotd #anti hotd fandom #fandom drama #racism #daemon targaryen #hotd fandom #fandom bs

[rhaenin-time]

Gotta love how GRRM wrote the Dance to say, "This is how a raging, xenophobic misogynist produced by an intolerant patriarchal institution would write about a woman in Rhaenyra's position. I've based it on how real raging xenophobic misogynists produced by intolerant patriarchal institutions have written about real women in Rhaenyra's position. Because as we all know, I love to show how people are trapped by the narratives society crafts around them."

Only for so many people to proceed to say, "Yeah, Rhaenyra's such a selfish whore. The raging xenophobic misogynist clearly went too easy on her."

#asoiaf #hotd #fire and blood #hotd critical #team black #asoiaf fandom #anti team green #hotd sexism #rhaenyra targaryen #house of the dragon

[bohemian-nights]

People really are missing the point of a character like Nettles. Being the a non-Valyrian dragonrider is what makes her different(in every positive definition of that word) and helps to serve a larger purpose in this story.

Valyrian blood is not special. It’s not needed to do great things. No one is special because of what family they happen to be born into.

A non-Valyrian Nettles shows that we are more than the circumstances which we are born into. Our birth, our names, and our very blood does not define us. Our actions are what do. We can overcome so much and rise to become absolutely extraordinary with a little bit of determination, patience, and a dash of help along the way. Nettles exemplifies that to the fullest extent.

She's more than a Black Valryian. She doesn’t have to be Valyrian. She shouldn’t have to be Valyrian.

She’s a survivor. She’s a final girl. She’s a Black low-born girl likely without a drop of dragons blood that tames a wild dragon with patience that killed countless others who had dragons blood. She survived the Dance where others high and low alike fell and perished to become a firewitch to the Burned Men.

Her legacy is immortalized in the history books(and by the Burned Men cause they still worship her) as one of the last(if not the last) dragonrider(s) before Dany all without having any known Valyrian ancestry.

#nettles doesn’t need Valyrian blood to be great #nettles #hotd #hotd spoilers #nettles asoiaf #nettles f&b #hotd fandom critical #bncommentary #hotd commentary #nettles characterization #🐑🐉 #house of the dragon #netty #she’s not daemons kid guys #the dates don’t align for that but keep trying it #surprise surprise most of the ones cheering this crap on aren’t black themselves 🤦🏽‍♀️ #I see what’s happening here which is ironic because any other time she isn’t Black #but now she is because you can use that #how does having valyrian blood benefit nettles at all #how does it add to the story GRRM is trying to tell #she can be valyrian but it shouldn’t be requirement #that thinking is backwards #what did tyrion say? never forget who you are wear it proudly #nettles likely isn’t valyrian let’s be proud of her claiming a dragon without dragons blood #nettles is great because she’s nettles #no dragon blood required and I love that 🙌🏽

[throwawayasoiafaccount]

question: how can you adore elia when she’s barely a character?

we do not know enough about this character for her to even have stans.

stanning elia is illogical at best, completely delusional and very concerning at worst.

because what even is it that is being stanned and adored? your self insert?

#her biggest contribution to the story was her death #sorry to say it #but it really is odd that people so fervently stan this character who’s barely a character #at least rhaegar and lyanna have more narrative importance #elia is another character who’s been ruined for me by the fandom #she’s a walking victim aesthetic at this point #i wouldn’t be so annoyed by elia stans if their stanning ended with adoring this barely a character character #but it doesn’t #it’s simply dany hate disguised as rhaegar hate by attempting to take a morally defensible position #stanning elia the not a character character that has no faults because she’s not important and we know nothing about her #is the position elia stans have decided to take in order to cleverly hate on dany #you people are obvious and it’s simply annoying like seriosuly go read a different book series #dany is not a monster and never will be and rhaegar was never even remotely close to being the scumbag you make him out to be #you people don’t like george’s books you like your self inserts. go read twilight please #asoiaf fandom critical #anti elia stans #asoiaf

[pessimisticpigeonsworld]

People in the ASOIAF fandom are very obsessed with passive women they can project onto. The obsessions with the characters of show!Alicent, Sansa, Elia, and Helaena are perfect examples of this.

In the show, Alicent is changed from a woman who actively seeks power and heads the scheming of the green faction into a passive victim who watches and reacts to the men around her. And yet, despite this being a much more boring characterization, the show version is vastly more preferred by her stans. They condemn her book character as simply an "evil stepmother trope" while completely ignoring how their fav is just as blank and tropey as they accuse her book counterpart to be. Alicent stans want her to be the show's blank victimized canvas.

Helaena is someone who the show changed very little in the adaptation, because both book and show Helaena have little impact on the plot other than to be victims of their surroundings. Both women are forced to marry Aegon at thirteen and have his children, go through B&C, and are the least active members of the green faction. The show only added elements to make her more tragic: her dreaming and autistic behaviors. Helaena's character makes her the perfect canvas for certain fans to project themselves onto as she simply exists to be victimized and play the dutiful wife/daughter despite her circumstances, just like the show version of her mother.

Elia Martell is a woman who we know very little about. She died thirteen years before the events of ASOIAF and, unlike characters like Rhaegar and Lyanna, she has no pov characters who think about her enough for us to learn anything about her. The only things we know are that she was loved by her family, was in an arranged marriage to Rhaegar, had his two (confirmed) children, and was brutally raped and murdered by Lannister men. She is an unknown character and, again unlike Rhaegar and Lyanna, has no known active role in the events surrounding the Rebellion. Because of these things, she is, again, the perfect blank canvas for people to project on.

Sansa is, despite being a prominent pov character in ASOIAF, a very passive character. She rarely takes action in her circumstances and simply reacts to them while trying to survive. There's nothing wrong with this, she's a young girl who has never had to fight for anything in her life, it's not unexpected or condemnable for her reaction to her circumstances to be this way. However, her passivity is something her stans obsess over. She is praised for being the "perfect lady" and they project their desires to see her rule onto her and how they view her story.

These women have been chosen by these fans because of their passivity and tragedy. They love that the women have suffered in the name of the "duty" they believe is higher than them. Because they love passivity, they hate the women of ASOIAF who are active in their own lives and fight to better their circumstances. Characters like Rhaenyra, Arya, Daenerys, and Lyanna are all massive influences on the world and purposely chose to challenge the patriarchy. Since they did not take their suffering silently, theses certain fans view them as wrong and hate them. They only love the women they can project on and who simply refuse to fight for better lives.

#anti sansa stans #anti alicent stans #elia martell #anti team green stans #asoiaf #asoiaf fandom #fandom critical #anti alicent hightower

[babybells123]

So I came across this post on reddit from seven years ago regarding a (brilliant) Jon x Sansa theory and I’m genuinely surprised by the reception on it , which is mostly positive !! Isn’t it interesting how people were more open to Jonsa theories in the past but now it’s shunned, vilified and called crack? What’s up with that? It’s really odd fandom behaviour. I mean this post even talks about Sansa’a flowering following Jon hearing the Blue Rose story, and commenters were pointing out what a good catch that was. Speak it now and you’ll be told you’re stealing from other characters and making connections where there aren’t any.

Anyway I just thought it was very telling that the fandom seemed more open to discussing Jonsa theories in the past, but have this major aversion to it now. It’s unfortunate - because the metas are so well thought out, logical, and concise and track well with the themes, characters, and GRRM’s subversive foreshadowing style.

If I were to say, post a theory on reddit today though? Oh god help me.

#jonsa #jon x sansa #fandom nonsense #anti asoiaf fandom #I’m gonna take a wild guess as to why this is and assume it’s because of fandom wars during S8 #so everyone just jumped on the bandwagon lmao #ahhh these silly delusional Jonsas - did they even read the text ???🙄🙄 #yes. very closely. and critically. unlike the ppl who take things at face value and don’t consider subtext

[venusintheblindspots-blog]

And to add more on my previous post, all of the main female characters (with the exception of Arianne Martell) in the main series of ASOIAF are representations of white femininity.

Every single one.

And that is because they are literally white. It doesn’t make them bad characters or anything.

I’ve talked about it before hand, but anytime George is writing a character of color, especially a black woman, he uses racist stereotypes and imagery. Every time.

There’s a reason why Dorne and the Summer Isles are sexually liberated, and why the Dothraki are portrayed as vicious ‘savages’ with hardly any redeeming values to their culture.

There’s a reason why Arianne’s exposure to sex and intimacy at ten years old is not framed the same way as say, Sansa’s.

There’s a reason why Chataya and her daughter are brutalized and reminiscent of the Jezebel trope.

#asoiaf #a song of ice and fire #game of thrones #house of the dragon #hotd #nettles asoiaf #nettles #anti fandom #sansa stark #fandom racism #arianne martell #house martell #Chataya #dorne #summer isles #anti grrm #grrm critical #arya stark #brienne of tarth #daenerys targeryan

[lagosbratzdoll]

I get that you guys hate Daenerys. I don't understand it but I get it. What I don't get is why so many of you have these misogynistic fantasies about her death.

"She's villain-coded."

That's all well and good but there are tens of men in the books who have done worse and continue to do worse in pursuit of far less noble causes. I don't see people posting rape fantasies about them. I have never seen a single post where Gregor Clegane, Jamie Lannister, Petyr Baelish, Tywin Lannister or his odious brother Kevan are subjected to sexual violence before being murdered ignobly.

If anything people often blorbo-fy them. Jamie Lannister is apparently on a redemption arc even though there is little evidence of this in the books. Gregor Clegane has blinding headaches so we can't really judge him for how he chooses to destress. Tywin might be a monstrous person in canon but at least he loved his wife and that apparently forgives a multitude of sins. As for Petyr and Kevan, little is said of them but that's the point isn't it.

Aegon II the rapist without a single redeeming quality has fans who arduously defend him. "He's only a rapist because mummy and daddy didn't love him." "He's only a rapist because he doesn't know what rape is." It's fascinating stuff because many of those fans who arduously defend him are staunch Daenerys haters.

Funny how that works.

#fandom critical #fandom misogyny #asoiaf #game of thrones #house of the dragon #daenerys targaryen

[horizon-verizon]

Honestly as a neutral party I would prefer Jaehaera living to Daenaera being introduced. Jaehaera is an innocent, mentally disabled child and her death is needlessly cruel. Her death is the least plot relevant of all of the child deaths that have happened in the dance and it's reasonable for people to want that changed since it comes off as pointlessly cruel. Killing Alicent or even just focusing on her imprisonment more is enough to show that the greens have paid for their betrayal. At least Daenaera can still be introduced and do something else in the narrative even if she doesn't marry Aegon.

I've already explained why Jaehaera's death was plot relevant HERE and HERE.

A)

Daenaera's entire narrative purpose was to marry Aegon and have his children to propagate the Targ line AND to become part of Aegon's mental rehabilitation from the effects of the civil war and watching his own mother get eaten burned/alive by a dragon. This is also reason why she's a fan fav in the first place; it's seen as a noble undertaking to some and a way for the Targs to move away from the greens finally. What other narrative use would you have her have?!

We can't bring up how after the War of the Roses the two fighting houses (Yorks and Lancasters) were successfully brought together in marriage to justify Jaehaera marrying and having a family with Aegon. Because:

Elizabeth of York wasn't disabled like Jaehaera

neither her nor Henry Tudor were little kids when they married

this is a fictional tale that, while modeled after some real events and people, is using them as springboards for a specific, purposefully created "message" unique to the author's

and imagine what it would being pregnant several times really be like for a very mentally incapacitated and traumatized girl like her?!!

Much less the other traumatized boy who's to be her husband? What the consummation and all the...impregnating times looked like?! Then, imagine what the family life would have been like, with these parents unable to ever connect thus the resentment is worse and their kids seeing that?

This doesn't justify Unwin Peake murdering Jaehaera, but no she never should have been married off to Aegon or anyone in the first place and that was not Unwin's doing but a larger group's--Aegon's council/patriarchal feudalism. This is what GRRM's trying to tell you, stop resisting it.

B)

I can believe that it is the way she died and the other context of so much violence men and adults perform against women and girls in this world is what really offends people enough for them to say that somehow, this a narratively irrelevant death. Because they're just that horrified.

The feelings are valid. But the action to erase the significance of the death is not valid. You definitely can wish for a much less violent one, like a poisoning that puts her to sleep or something. The death is supposed to be tragic and make you feel that it wasn't deserved, was horrible, etc. Because it was all those things.

And to say such an untrue thing as "not narratively relevant" also leads me to suspect that some people don't like Jaehaera's death either bc they just:

wanted the greens to win in some way bc they favor them and their cause (my second linked post)

you--knowing that Daenaera will likely be black in the show IF they ever get to the Maiden's Ball--go so hard for Jaehaera bc she at least is a white girl in the universe of HotD

want excessively centrist politics to sway the story at the expense of actual understanding of why we should change and upend the status quo entirely (here the feudal entrapment of girls and women); deny a reality, discourage learning to the oppressive status quo can prevail [on this trend of neutrality]...the truth is the villains/antagonists were always the greens

AND/OR, are avoidant of facing ugly, sordid truths of oppression because they are close to it in real life and haven't found ways of separating that from collective understanding of oppressive systems/coping mechanism

Look anon, Alicent's imprisonment doesn't make up for mass death. Because it's not even just about Alicent as the individual, the grandmother, the mother, etc. It's the effect of her actions on a population. Jaehaera was one of many girls Otto AND Alicent endangered (another being Halaena). Though her actions became something much bigger than her & things went out of her control, that doesn't stop them from being hers AND having affected thousands of lives. Her main aim was to accrue power through her kids and grandkids--who she chose to risk by usurping Rhaenyra and beginning the war--the consequence is she loses said kids and grandkids through other's similar ambition. Again, bc even though those kids were noble and were supposed to be relatively safe, because they are all technically heirs or adults around them can use them accrue power (whether by killing them or through marriages or whatever), they were also targets. We could say similar for Rhaenyra's children, as what happens to her youngest 2; all of them in one way or another die because they were or could be used. however, they AND the greens' kids were all safer if the greens had not usurped Rhaenyra.

The greens were the aggressors and transgressors. The ones who started this war and looked for something out of it. They tried to act worse against Rhaenrya before/during the war AND the whole of Westeros before/during/after, thus they get the worse punishment and lose more than she did.

The entire point is that the greens lose everything, because they went after "everything". They lose everything, including their kids bc they relentlessly and hypocritically ran to obtain more power for themselves by attempting to exclude a woman from the position she never would have had without the will of a man.

They went on the basis that a girl/woman should not rule or become an heir before any direct male relatives...so Jaehaera was cut out of the line of succession by her own side of the family, thus she was also less prioritized, thus she was made into a baby factory for Aegon III. She became their last chance to get their blood to at least be part of the future line, but even that's dashed by a man who had similar ambitions as Otto and Alicent.

In trying to go against the king's word/an actual law, the greens also made it much more justified for someone to not care much for Aegon II's claim or authority...bc if you can so easily flout a king's word, why should you care about the guy you're trying to make king?! And using people who themselves are willing to be so dishonest creates a higher likelihood that they'd betray you, as similar to Ulf and Hugh betraying Rhaenyra. (And somehow, Rhaenyra is the only naive one when she expects people to follow through with their oaths 🙄)

Have you ever thought, anon, about those other girls who were maimed or terrorized into not appearing before Aegon III in the Maiden's Ball? Sure, most of them weren't disabled (Priscella Hogg was, I think), but what happens to Jaehaera is because she was girl in the way of a man's ambitions and not because she was disabled. What about all those Tumbleton folk, Bitterbridge refugees (the raped septas and girls as young as 8!), and riverland peasants--most of them children! Undoubtedly, you will have disabled children in those populations, anon. Why is Jaehaera's death so much more valuable than these mass deaths of also children? Remember that Alicent raised her kids to easier justify committing these atrocities. Maelor and Jaehaerys' deaths also reflect these events. Jaehaera's death was markedly different in meaning from theirs (to open up space for another girls who's being used) because she was female. In the first linked post, I talk about why and how people used Jaehaera's marriage to Aegon and how that reflects on her death being unique from her brothers' because of her gender.

GRRM comments, through Jaehaera and these girls and Rhaenyra what one pattern of F&B has: being female is dangerous because it is to be more of an object or property in lieu of self-concerned ambitious men to the point where the most vulnerable and those who cannot practice some of the same sort of agency can experience gruesome consequences--sometimes to become terrors themselves in their attempts to gain denied agency or defend themselves.

#jaehaera targaryen #daenaera velaryon #asoiaf asks to me #jaehaera's death #fire and blood writing #the greens vs the blacks #fandom critical #hotd fandom #green stan nonsense #fandom nonsense #jaehaera's characterization

[greenqueenhightower]

Quick question if you perhaps know, after the Alicole sex scene leaks (real or not) I saw the rumour going around that this would happen during b&c. Do you know where this rumour comes from? I saw it mentioned in one of the asks you received.

Personally the sex scene I would be fine with, but to place it during b&c would not make sense to me, especially since this is one of the few mentions of Alicent during this period in f&b as having been present for b&c. I do feel being present for that would shape her character a lot more than having guilt over having sex when she wasn't there. It would make more sense if these scenes were not connected and I would dislike it if they were. What's your opinion?

Yes, I saw the rumor that Alicent and Criston will have sex while B&C happens, and then feel terribly penitent for it. As far as I could tell, it came from a TikToker who saw the episode. I do not have TikTok though, so if anyone does find where that leak came from, please share.

Placing the sex scene during B&C is an abomination because it would condescendingly downplay the significance of the events. First of all, Alicent, as you said, was present and saw with her own eyes what B&C did to her daughter and grandbabies. The shock she suffers witnessing that moment cannot be equated to that of only posthumously learning about it.

Then think about paralleling the scenes in the editing to depict the synchronous acts. It is horrible and coarsely offputting and it would be a disgrace in my eyes.

#i hope the fandom is wrong about this one #thanks for the ask! #blood and cheese #b&c #hotd #hotd s2 #hotd season 2 #hotd spoilers #hotd speculation #hotd leaks #hotd thoughts #house of the dragon #alicent hightower #alicole #ser criston cole #criston cole #greenqueenasks #greenqueenhightower #team green #hotd critical #asoiaf #a song of ice and fire #hotd meta