#and why. too bad this game is rancid imo | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

waywardsalt · 7 months

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Hey, thanks for the response on the post where I asked about what people dislike ab totk! I genuinely appreciate it a lot, and you summarized most of my thoughts about this beautifully!

Here's something you might find interesting: something about this game's pacing REALLY bothered me from the start, and I think I know what it is. Totk, despite being an open world game that you can pour a ton of time into, feels short. It's a really weird feeling, and I think it can be explained in that Nintendo is trying to use the linear storytelling format for a nonlinear game, which is also why the ability to see the tears in a random order was disorienting, and why the stories from the ancient sages felt so repetitive.

The gameplay is long, but the story isn't! If you compare it to Skyward Sword, for example! In sksw, you go through each of the areas once, and then again with some changes, and then again with more. There's several clear acts, and even if the game is super super linear and recieves criticism for that, it works really well in that context. Additionally, the characters more than make up for the linearity of the story. Totk tries to take that same format, but doesn't seem to understand that this format is for a linear story. It only has a very brief story, and the story to gameplay ratio is so dragged out that unless you get invested in the world, it all starts to feel really stupid and pointless. Unfortunately, totk fails at getting us invested, too.

I really hope this made ANY sense at all, ty again for the input!! I love the responses I'm getting on that post djbdjsndns :D

Hi, you're welcome for my uh... totk rant, I guess? I covered a lot of stuff in it but I wouldn't say I covered everything bc there is... a lot abt that game that rubs me the wrong way in one way or another.

totk is definitely an odd case, it being an open world game that does try to adhere to linear game rules, you’re right- and i’d say the story is severely kneecapped by that attempt on the game’s part to have its cake and eat it too. it tries to mix what botw brought to the table with what was done in the past, but because botw is vastly different in what it does than past zelda games, the result is a messily paced, poorly-told, gameplay-focused with piss-easy mandatory puzzle segments result, failing to capture the advantages of linear games and instead making those specific parts considerably weaker.

people give linear games shit for… honestly, im not totally sure, as someone who really enjoys linear games. they allow for a good focus on story and character, mostly because you can have a set pace and passing of time and order of events. totk tries to implement linear style elements into a game where you can do anything out of order, so in the end the story is surprisingly brief but slow paced because you have to travel so far for everything and they have to account for you doing everything in any order, hence... repeating the same fucking information as a reward for four of the dungeons (which, i don't care how you feel about this game, is an awful fucking choice i mean holy SHIT), and is probably why the interactions with the new sages include very brief character arcs or something, they wanted to include some kind of linear character stories but it all just got stuffed in between a bunch of mini-main quests.

the fact that effectively half of the main story happens ages in the past and is communicated through brief cutscenes that can easily be encountered out of order, too, is kind of a pitiful way to tell the story. they're all basically glorified exposition dumps since nothing about them will change, they're all events that have already happened and have nothing to do with the player except hyping them up i guess.

the dungeons themselves are awkwardly transposed from a more linear game style with them relying on a specific skill to some degree, but they just fall so flat compared to past linear zelda dungeons. in botw the divine beasts honestly worked because the mechanic of manipulating the beasts themselves and the activating of switches fit perfectly with the setup of the dungeons being huge machines, while there isn't as good of a story example as to why totk's dungeons have the same switch mechanic. botw's divine beasts work pretty well in an open world setting. totk's just fall to pieces in an open with setting, even discounting how ascend could just snap them in half entirely. you just... can't have the same kind of dungeons as past zelda games in an open world format. once you take out the array of specific-use progressively-earned items, you're just left with this tiny little gmod ass toolbox to do what felt like baby's first loz-style dungeon. go to the clearly marked waypoint, do one (1) simple puzzle, get reward.

i miss mini bosses, rooms with puzzles that had to be solved to unlock a door or a doorkey, and even the experience of wandering around just trying to figure out what to do next. honestly, the first half of the lightning temple was the best part of all of the dungeons put together, and then we're back to 'go to four different rooms to do four different easy puzzles'. linear games have genuine advantages over open world games, and open world games have their own advantages. in the story segments, totk just ignores the advantages inherent to it's game's basic style in favor of trying and failing to emulate the advantages of a very different game style.

totk is so paradoxically unable to tear itself away from the series' past while at the same time disregarding series staples and even big parts of its own goddamn prequel.

in my experience with the game, as far as i can remember, i believe i went around and opened all of the towers, did some shrines and the depths, got the master sword, did the main quests with some side quests, then sped through getting all of the memories in order, then did the final boss. in between all of that, i managed to get all of the armor, do every single shrine, and open the entirety of the depths. i did not give a single damn about the story by the end. for me, with my playstyle, everything was just... spread out over such a long period of time so there was barely any urgency at all, i experienced the memories all in quick succession while already knowing the big twist (which. btw. i didnt care about. i wasnt really endeared to zelda and link's lack of visual interest during cutscenes just brought up the question of if he doesnt care why should i), and since this game's story is more linear, it just felt so disjointed and strange and... not important.

with botw it makes pretty good sense why link may take ages, why you could get the memories however you want, all of that. zelda is keeping things with ganon on pause for you. all of the big stuff happened in the past. you are here in the present, in the ruins of the past, a blank slate come to eventually complete the mission that you had failed, at the same time discovering this new world and becoming re-acquainted to it with this strange second chance you've been given. totk doesn't have this excuse. at least in past zelda games, you did things in a specific order, so when you wanted to fuck around, it was usually something related to or based on your progress. if you want to fuck around in oot what you can do is based on where you are in the game and even then it all ends up wrapping back around to bolstering link for the end. getting hearts, better items... like every side quest in every other loz game did. in totk you can do a sidequest for like. one flower. and what does that even do for you. it doesn't have the excuse of the honestly pretty well crafted setup and world state of botw.

i really don't know what happened during the development of totk, and i can't imagine it was the smoothest thing in the world, esp considering the pandemic hitting in the middle of it. but just... it just feels like it failed in so many regards and was just... so disappointing, and yet people are heralding it as the best zelda game and- this is not what i want a zelda game to be! i want a zelda game to have those wonderful puzzle-filled dungeons with well-written main characters and music that fits the setting and feels supported by the game's events and a unique setting with unique little nooks and crannies and good pacing and act structure and like. some kind of heart to it. not just another big open-world game created to be the big open world game where you can do this one amazing specific cool thing that TOTALLY is worth the $70 or whatever else it may be priced around the world.

idk. to me what makes zelda games zelda games is the linear storytelling and those complex dungeons and specific method of progression, and botw's new open-world emulation of the sense that loz 1 gave does not and probably will not ever be able to mix with that linear style unless you have massive in game game style shifts to allow for it. either return to the old format or just commit to the series becoming Triple A Open World Game Series Number 34

#asks #salty talks #bitching abt totk #wind-awoken #ty for the ask i love tearing into this game bc its at least helped me understand some stuff abt game design and what kinds of games i like #and why. too bad this game is rancid imo #dude i fucking love skyward sword. the linearity lends itself to a sense of progression and time passing and just. ugh. its so good #totk critical #totk neg #totk salt #covering my bases :)#i just. yeah gamedev is hard but if this is the mess we got after 6 YEARS what the fuck happened??? what was scrapped????#they had SIX FUCKING YEARS and having the ancient sages regurgitate the same info 4 times made it to the final release #what in the fuck happened in there #i dont really like the idea of there being a permanent move to open world bc its clearly just following the crowd on this one #its just such a massive departure from all other loz games (including loz 1 tbh) that that has to be part of it i feel. it makes sense #botw + totk dont feel unique like the other loz games do. they just. feel really similar to shit like elden ring and fenyx bc like.#thats just how open world action adventure games are ig. ironically theres not a ton of wiggle room with the open world formula #cant really get away from what makes them all feel interchangeable bc its so core to what an open world game is #best you can do is add some standout aspect like the general. Being A Souls Game in elden ring #totk adding dumbass glue doesnt even feel unique bc like. its just what every other sandbox game lets you do with some added jank #progression feels meaningless when it has no impact on what you can do in the game and thats the only kinda progression in totk #get more health make armor numbers bigger make better food fuse better weapons. you cant even upgrade the abilities this time #yeah botw has similar pitfalls but it at least owns being an open world game. it utilized and embraced the format #idk. totk before release was increasingly overwhelming to me and post release it was just such a massive letdown #i remember trying in earnest to pull a wagon using a horse and just. having the worst time. ultrahand sucks unless you make death machines #or one of like five specific traversal things

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icharchivist · 1 year

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was having banri thoughts lately just bc like. why not right. and then i suddenly remember u mentioning that some ppl... did not like banri at the start? which is wild to me bc in my mind ive always been ride or die for him. like i love juza so much but i feel like. that doesnt rly oppose liking banris character as well? banri is such fun character drama at the beginning of autumn and then his and itarus dynamic is fun from the start... gosh and the acting in the final bits of the autumn troupe between him and juza! suchhh fun tension. like. idk. it just started making me think like wow. digging thru a3 on my own with mostly the influence of like, just you has probably skewed my opinion of what the common perception of a3 is like. for example in my head winter is the most popular troupe which... it maybe isnt? i feel like recently i saw u mention summer might be the most popular(? this couldve been a dream) and i didnt realize itaru was super popular until like. last month. i mean if i had to pick a character i thought was the most popular i'd pick. misumi.

LKFJDLKFJD god what an ask

yeah i doubt i'm exactly the "common a3 experience" but to be perfectly honest i haven’t really kept tabs on the fandom per se since hh mid-2020 when i started to dig into some tags and saw so much negativity i was just :/ and stopped doing so (the curse to liking rascals </3).

Nowadays my knowledge of the a3 fandom is mostly the people interreacting with me, which already generally means that they vibe with what i post, so it gives me a skewed vision of the fandom like, are we all like that? or are the loud voices that made me go avoid the tag still here yaknow?

More stuff under cut

For Banri, i'll admit i wasn't too hot about him when i started the game, which now i regret so bad because he's my precious little meow meow hands down. He has such a good arc!!!! I know in my case i just had a hard time because i cared for Juza right away and i was still so high on Summer's development i kept comparing Banri to Tenma and going "here's why Tenma is amazing and Banri is cringefail". But it lasted me until a bit before Banri sees the portraits, when he starts to be conflicted, after that i was all, oh wait i like that guy. And then the more content i saw of him the more i loved him and he became my fav Autumn Chara. (so if you want to ramble about him more you’re free to do so because i’m team i adore this guy. please do. you’re so right in what you say of him.)

But so i did expect people to have my experience - hard time in the beginning, then mellowing on him before the end of the Autumn Chapter. And it wasn't the case 😭😭😭😭 At least at the time, the Banri's takes were rancid. Like it was genuinely annoying at a point, you couldn't go anywhere without some Banri bashing fuckery, even after his initial arc, people just. really hated him. My most hated takes were that i saw so many people say Banri would bully Yuki or stuff implying they would have an antagonistic relationship and it's probably why i cling to Into the Night so much, like HELL you're going to twist one of my fav crosstroupe dynamic!!! I legit saw so many things reducing Banri to a menace and a bully, and if not that, talking about how much everyone in the dorm hated him, and it was really driving me insane then.

I remember once making a post about how i was so close to blacklist "Banri" because people didn't filter this bashing with tags so i was just ready to just, not see Banri anymore, but it was breaking my heart. But somehow after this post i got a few people coming back at me about how it annoyed them too and i saw some of those people make their own posts in a more. direct way. and after that i never saw Banri bashing again. My power (< absolutely not, coincidence at best i'm sure).

A lot of Banri bashing i saw back then were from "newcomers" in the sense that it was after the anime aired, and a lot of people were just coming in without knowing about the events. imo i think the events do help giving a better feel to Banri in general so the fact people were fresh from the anime might have skewed things. I remember a friend who was in that case, newcomer and all, only read the main story, didn't like Banri after reading the main story. Then, Main story act 2 came out and while they didn't read the events, they read the main story and they started liking Banri there (because he did develop so much since then)

And as a whole i'd say, by act 2 it must have died out a bit.

There's another chara who gets bashed a lot but. Act 2 stuff 😔. Unfortunately a chara i like a lot so this was my breaking point of "i'm not checking the tags anymore none of you know how to behave". I think it mellowed since then? and i know the chara is popular in the JPN fandom meanwhile.

else i've seen like, Tasuku having very little content from fans and a few people being mean to him when they talked about him, but it was a long time ago and i sure hope it died out. I don't think i'd say he's bashed, more that most folks don't have strong feelings about him and stopped just with a bitter taste over his anger toward Tsumugi in the first winter chap.

Now. About popularity, Winter is DEF NOT the most popular troupe. Pretty sure it plays between Autumn and Summer in term of popularity. That said it's not like any of the troupes are unpopular so any ramblings about each Troupe would be meet with pleased reactions from the fandom, so it is harder to gauge that but yeah.

Troupewise something i noticed is that i think Summer is the most popular in term of GROUP, while Autumn is the most popular in term of Individuals. So a lot of people liked Summer specifically for their dynamic and how each of those charas played out each other more than individually liking each of them, while for Autumn it was, they liked all of them strongly! not specifically for their dynamic, though of course it plays a part, but as individuals. I mention it because i think it was the key difference in rank up in why i think Summer plays were okay to rank up to while Autumn were a nightmare. (that said that can also be "blamed" on "fans gravitate around characters that have elements they have as well" or something which means Autumn fans were more likely to be competitive and stubborn in a way Summer were more mellow.)

Itaru is definitely the most popular character of the whole game, period. It's not even a competition at this point it's so funny. when the EN server was live, anytime Itaru had a rank up card was a bloodbath (< survivor of Kniroun ranking up at 0.2%. Didn't sleep normally for the whole duration of the event it was so much.).

By the end of the server things were dying out a bit but still in general you could get a vague idea of popularity by how wild the rankings could be. For instance the fact Tasuku's ranking was a breeze without even trying was indicative of how he's not that popular.

In general i've noticed, at the time at least, that Winter ranks up were rather easy. I've ranked up for a few of Summer and i didn't see much of a problem otherwise*. Spring was really chill unless Itaru was in rank up. Autumn was THE Bloodbath. There were Autumn Stans organziation all over, the appp SYSTEMATICALLY broke EVERYTIME Autumn was around, it was always much more challenging, so yeah man.

Misumi* is probably the one i'd consider the second most popular character of the game, pretty much.

(*The funny thing is that Misumi got his lead play very early in the server's history, and i know i ranked up for him then and i didn't think it was too hard. In retrospect i'm sure it has more to do with the fact the game didn't have as many people playing it, than it had to do with popularity, so my word on Summer not being a problem is based on weird stats)

A while ago, for the Taiwanese server, there was a special set of cards in term of popularity on this server. Itaru got a SSR, Masumi got a SR, and Misumi got a R.

Masumi is in a weird position because i'd say he's fairly unpopular in the EN server, while he's popular in the JPN and Taiwanese server. Honestly i'm assuming he's especially popular with the teen audience.

AND THE MOST TELLING PART:

The first Cross-troupe's play was involving the most popular character of each troupe, by a poll being made by the JPN server. The leads were Itaru and Banri, then Misumi as a secondary character and Tsumugi as a more support character.

Meaning at the time, this was the order of the 4 most popular characters of the game.

When the mixed troupe event came to the English server, i remember a poll circulating on tumblr and likely twitter as well, trying to see if the EN Server had different favorites. Itaru still came on top, Misumi followed closely afterward. For Autumn, it was Juza and Taichi that were on the top of the Autumn poll, not Banri, and for Winter, i think it was still Tsumugi but Homare was very close behind.

So that was the popularity at least back then, god knows opinions now.

I've seen Homare be extremely popular on tumblr for sure. I have no doubt in Juza's popularity as well.

I saw a lot of Taichi fan going "Taichi is underappreciated" but i saw so many of them i was kinda just thinking "bro i'm pretty sure Taichi is in the popular character squad by now" But i'm also on the other hand as i've once seen a post saying Hisoka was popular and it stunned me a moment going ????? because as a huge Hisoka stan i don't see it???? There's a few devoted fans, and he has a better fanbase in JPN server, but in EN server??? (I'm comparing the last rank up for Hisoka VS the last rank up for Taichi in my mind and i genuinely don't see it for instance) so i also think it's likely i have a "fav blindspot" where i just don't think people are vibing with the charas the way i'm vibing, just. exactly like what i'm talking about with the Taichi stans so.... (that said i also once was tagged in a post that was going "i don't think i've ever seen a Hisoka or Tasuku stan" and a friend just went @ icha come here. Schrodinger Hisoka who's both popular and unpopular depending on who you're asking. And Tasuku IS MY UNDERRATED MEOW MEOW)

I think i recall Tenma being popular for a time, and Yuki is well appreciated by everyone around here. Kazunari has a loud fanbase but i'm pretty sure the seiyuu thing was a huge blow to them and a lot of them got more quiet at the time.

And for what it's worth i do think there's a sizeable portion of the fandom that really like Tsuzuru, but i think it's just, something you get to see a lot when a huge part of the fandom is creatives. And to be completely fair, Clockwork Heart is the one event i had a massive burn out at and didn't pay attention to the rankings at all, so i can't tell if people went really wild about it. And the next Tsuzuru rank up event was literally the last event of the EN server and i'm sure it's not indicative of anything since a lot of folks just didn't want to bother. So unlike the others were i'm using rank up as a gauge of popularity i can't tell how Tsuzuru's might influence his.

SO YEAH that's for what i could pick up BACK THEN, as i remind, i didn't really look deeply into the fandom itself. I'm really good in my corner so it might not actually be indicative of the fandom trends and i'm maybe completely off base.

Then about how, i, personally, don't represent the fandom, unless the fandom changed since then: When i first liveblogged a3, it was when the server was new and no one was on tumblr about it, so i was a little unfiltered from people's opinions. when i came back about a year later to comment on act 2, getting all worked up, and running then into the growing fanbase on this website, is when i started to run into fan takes and everything.

And, let's be clear, i came back because i was crying very hard over Hisoka and Azuma and the full Winter Troupe, and Chikage, so i really came here with my Big Winter Boots only talking about Winter and then Spring.

I ended up getting a feel of what people were talking about a lot at that time, and kinda ended up talking more about what i considered my Underrated Gems.

For instance, i absolutely adore Itaru. I ranked up for him, i've bleed for him, i love the dude. But he's so popular i figured i legit had nothing to say about him that a hundred people wouldn't have been able to say before. So i've mostly didn't really talk about him much despite loving him a LOT because i just didn't think i had anything to say. (now in my current reread i'm doing it so disconnected from what i know of the fandom that i indulged in talking more about how much i like him LMAO)

Meanwhile, there's characters i love that i know the fandom don't talk about much so i end up talking about them more, and it's the case of Tasuku. I wouldn't be surprised Tasuku is really low on most people's popular list. I'm just Not Most People and you're going to hear me ramble about that hunk of a man every few days or so.

I've made my niche in the Winter Troupe appreciation gang and i'm pretty sure by now a lot of other Winter people follow me as a result because i couldn't shut the fuck up, so then my perception of the fanbase gets skewed because i just think of Them ahah.

And there is the fact i adore the rookies, mainly Chikage and Guy, but don't talk about them so much mostly because they came out later in the main story and i've been rereading act 1 so many times instead,,, and didn't talk much about act 2 in case some people managed to save themselves from being spoiled (like you!!)

So my personal perception of a3 is probably not reflecting the whole a3 fanbase really much. God the amount of times i talked my friends's ears off about Winter, that they kinda just humored me without thinking much about it, until they found out one of the More Popular Chara (Itaru, Tenma and the whole Autumn Troupe mostly) and suddenly they're like *twirls hair* heeyy Icha tell us more about a3. It's genuinely so funny to me.

and again i don't know perhaps i'm full of shit, and it's not like i've kept tabs on the fandom recently either!

But that is at least a bit of what i remember in term of popularity and what i can say is that i shouldn't be taken as an example of the fanbase's views in general.

I'm vibing in my corner, and by experience, it usually meant i ended up talking about more niche things, but since i'm disconnected from the fandom i'm pretty sure i still have opinions that are popular opinions. So who knows! not me!

So yeah that's all i can say about the popularity of the a3 fandom. Def not an indication of it by me.

and it must be funny for you since you only really have me as your fandom gateaway because well. *waves at post* yeah.

The more you know!

#ichareply #ichafantalks a3 #aranarumei #post that got ways too long ways too stupidly

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