#and then that deleted scene of them in the church's mind palace | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

k-s-morgan · 2 years

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ty for sharing your stories with us (both fics and updates from ukraine). you are a brilliant writer and i love your hannigram stories and meta. it helped me understand hannigram better on my rewatch! sorry you're going through this, hope you and your family are safe, and there are better days ahead for you. *hugs* 💖 ps: i'd love to know what your thoughts are on their mind palace. why it exists, how it functions, the dynamics of sharing/visiting rooms in each other's palaces etc.

Thank you so much for your wonderful ask! I’m really glad you’ve been enjoying my posts and stories, this means a lot to me.

The question about Will and Hannibal’s mind palace is very interesting. Let’s start with them both describing how their palaces look through the seasons.

Hannibal: My palace is vast, even by medieval standards. The foyer is the Norman chapel in Palermo, severe and beautiful and timeless, with a single reminder of mortality: a skull graven in the floor ... All the palace chambers are not lovely, light and high. In the vaults of our hearts and brains, danger waits. There are holes in the floor of the mind.

[My childhood home is] at the center of my mind. And here you are, feeling for the latch.

[My Baltimore office] holds sound and motion, great snakes wrestling and heaving in the dark. Other rooms are static scenes, fragmentary... like painted shards of glass. Screams fill some of those places. But the corridors do not echo screaming... because I hear music.

We also have this addition from Will:

[The Norman chapel isn't Hannibal, it's just where he begins. Beyond this, far and complex, light and dark, is the vast structure of his mind. A thousand rooms, miles of corridors. Everything he remembers, wonderfully and fearfully reconstructed. Hannibal is well armed against the physical world, but there are places within himself he can't safely go. But [I] can. If [I] find them.

For Will, we have one line + many images.

Will: All I need is a stream.

From what we see in S2, he prefers to stand in the middle of the stream, which changes its depths depending on the situation. The greenery is around, hiding mystery and potential danger.

The quotes indicate that in S3, Will decides to enter Hannibal’s Mind Palace, and from then on, their rooms begin to merge.

Hannibal: Your memory palace is building. It's full of new things. It shares some rooms with my own. I've discovered you there. Victorious.

This whole quote is precious. Hannibal not only acknowledges that he and Will have begun to blur in terms of their mental spaces, but he also admits that he discovered a triumphant Will in his mind - Will has conquered parts of it, and now Hannibal submits to him. He fully accepts the power Will holds over him.

Why their mind palaces exist: separately, they give them a chance to retreat from a hostile environment or just immerse themselves into something deep, relaxing and intimate. Will and Hannibal both hide from prison in their minds: Will is fishing, Hannibal is enjoying the music. Their specific memories make up some of the rooms: some are good, some are bad, and they revisit the good ones & avoid the bad ones.

Since they had such a profound impact on each other, it was inevitable that they made life-changing memories together and their palaces merged. They both saw the church in Palermo and it began to mean something to them as a couple: we see them both sitting there in the deleted epilogue to the show. They are quiet and peaceful, enjoying the calmness and each other.

Some rooms will forever belong to Will and Hannibal separately, like the stream and the childhood rooms, but I think the more years they spend together, the more areas will appear that belong to them both. So even if they are ever separated, they will be able to visit each other there, in their minds - their unique mental connection will allow them to reconstruct the images of each other with perfect clarity.

#hannibal #hannigram #will graham #hannibal lecter #meta #mind palace

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sammysamstuff · 3 years

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I’m a Hannigram shipper and I really like the show but I still have doubts that Hannigram was canon and sometimes I feel like we were queerbaiting because we never saw a kiss or a verbal or text confirmation of Will’s feelings. We know how Hannibal feels but how come Bryan didn’t add a line about how Will feels and that he loves hannibal too. I don’t get it. Also we got Margot and Alana having sex but we couldn’t see a gay kiss in a beautiful moment between Hannibal and Will? 1/2

The kiss on the cliff would make sense as that’s when they finally got together and became murder husbands. Idk sometimes I feel like Bryan queerbaited but kept making comments about how Hannibal was a gay love story, saying Hannigram was canon like his personal comments are irrelevant if the show didn’t put that on the screen. Like how come you have to confirm those things? Why can’t we see it on the screen? (2/2)

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Hiya! I agree with some of your points and I wanted to make sure I addressed all of them so this took me some time to respond:

1- I understand your frustration about not seeing the “confirmation” or “consolidation” of the murder husbands with a kiss or a love/sex scene. There were several things at play here though: when Bryan wrote S3 and when production had actually started, NBC cancelled Hannibal. So at that point it was too late to change anything and, budget was cut, so not much to do there. Mads said that if Bryan knew Hannibal was being cancelled, he would have written something different, like a time jump, a few years in the future. My guess is that Bryan wanted the kiss/love scene to happen in S4, and not at that point by the cliff. IMO he still plans to use the “Kiss alts” footage they have at some point, maybe as a flashback or something, that’s why he doesn’t release it. Or maybe he will release it at some point.

I agree that a “Cliff Kiss” would have been perfect - it could have been chaste, sweet, not overdoing it, but confirming that now, the murder husbands are indeed together and love (romantically and possibly sexually) each other. We did get the confirmation in the deleted scene, though, that Hannibal and Will are at peace and harmony with each other in their Mind Palaces and/or in Italy, in that church deleted scene. And hunting together (poor Bedelia 😂) like murder husbands would.

2- We did get confirmation of Will’s feelings for Hannibal many times throughout the show- he fixes a boat and travels alone to Europe to find and understand Hannibal and his past. He touches and looks at Hannibal as if he is his whole world (S2, seriously)... as soon as Bedelia tells Will Hannibal is in love with him, Will sets his plan in motion to fake Hannibal’s escape from prison. And then saves him from the Dragon and then helps Hannibal kill the Dragon. Not to mention, Will’s extreme jealousy of Bedelia (for being with Hannibal in Florence and taking his place) and of the Dragon, whom Hannibal admired. To me, Will’s jealousy and his insatiable need for Hannibal and Hannibal’s attention are also proof that he loves and reciprocates Hannibal’s feelings. He simply can’t live without Hannibal and we see that expressed in his unhappiness with Molly and Walter, his inability to connect with them, and how he had to break Hannibal free, killed a bunch of people in the process and didn’t even care. Will is in love with Hannibal and is insatiably attracted to him. Also, Bedelia says as much 😂

What I’m trying to say is that, with everything we saw in 3 seasons, it is clear Will and Hannibal love each other and chose each other over and over again, despite many conflicts and issues. That’s all in the story - this is a show about Will and Hannibal’s love relationship, all the other characters are pawns, players, in Will and Hannibal’s game. Bryan explicitly said that. I understand that a kiss or love scene would have been amazing and it would make sense with the story, but we don’t need it in order to be able to say that Hannigram is canon. The show expressed that it is canon, in 3 seasons of their relationship.

3- I see where you’re coming from in regard to Queerbaiting and I partially agree with it. I personally give Bryan the benefit of the doubt because he actually did deliver a show about a GAY LOVE STORY, but he rather play in the suggestive and leave things to interpretation of the audience, which is simply his style. Also, we don’t know (but we can guess) the role that NBC must have played in removing that kiss scene or not allowing it in the first place.

But I do think that, if a S4 was made and no romantic scene, sex scene, kiss scene between Will and Hannibal happened, then it would definitely be queerbaiting. After all, if this is a gay love story and they are together, as murder husbands, there is an exploration that needs to happen, just like in any other romantic relationship, queer or not. Pushing back the consummation of their romantic relationship by not bringing the physical aspects into it falls into dangerous queerbaiting territory and I don’t like it. @k-s-morgan once said to me that maybe Bryan invented a new type of Queerbaiting, and that can also be true... I agree.

Anyway, this got super long, but I hope I answered your ask fully, anon!

#hannigram #hannibal #ask #ask response #anonymous ask #anon response #anon ask #k s morgan #hannibal s4 #hannibal season 4 #hannibal deserves more #bryan fuller #nbc hannibal

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abumblebeeat221b · 7 years

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A List of Everything that is Odd about ‘The Six Thatchers’

I watched it again.

And I have to say I’ve read better fan fics on ao3. Gosh, if this had been something on ao3, I’d have stopped reading by the time they made John cheat on Mary. My comment would have been something like: John is hopelessly OOC. Mary’s characterisation is great, but why would you kill her off?

But since, by some unfortunate events, this happens to be the first episode of series 4, here are a few things which were referenced/out of place/ or just plain odd.

Our doctor said you were clean.

A few hours ago, Sherlock was having a Vicotrian Mind Palace trip. We worried for a year that he might have OD-ed. How does this qualify as clean? Or rather did Sherlock Holmes tip some poor government doctor off to fake his results? Is this some weird AU?

Only those within this room, code names Antarctica, Langdale, Porlock and Love, will ever know the whole truth

Antarctica: no idea.

Langdale is a reference to Langdale Pike from ‘Three Gables’. In the story he is a curator of scandals for some paper, and gives Sherlock Holmes the real name of a rich, famous, beautiful and industrious woman whose actions happen to affect one of Holmes clients. He lets her off the hook after making sure she’d come up for the travel expenses for his client, whose biggest dream is to see the world.

Porlock. Fred Porlock. ‘The Valley of Fear’. First, Porlock warns Holmes in an encrypted message about one of Moriarty’s plans (against a Mr Douglas), but then becomes too afraid of his master. Aaaaaand. On top of it, the story has Douglas faking his own death, who back in America, had brought a gang (the Valley of Fear) to justice, and is busy trying to save his life once the criminals get released again. Douglas dies in the end, even though Holmes warned him. And good old Holmes blames Moriarty once more. (Although who knows. Maybe Douglas just faked his death again?)

There was once a merchant, in the famous market at Baghdad.

The fable of the Appointment in Samarra, a.k.a “You can’t cheat death”. But then Mycroft lets us know that Sherlock wrote an AU where the merchant flees to Sumatra and escapes death. If we are talking about symbolism, then what does that stand for? (Also, don’t forget Sherlock’s vow, his promise he’d help Mary to escape. Maybe he did. Maybe he did not and Mary still escaped?)

But when they opened up his lungs…sand.

The drown man whose lungs were full of sand: no idea what that might be about. I can’t even come up with a scenario where that would be a possible cause of death. Maybe he inhaled water mixed with (river?) sand?

Come back! It’s the wrong thumb.

The severed thumb aka ‘The Engineer’s Thumb’. The only interesting thing about this story is that the criminals manage to flee and a house burns down. I’m not sure if this qualifies as foreshadowing (the burning house from the trailer, anyone?)

It’s never twins.

The case is called The Duplicate Man on John’s blog. We already had a reference to A Case of Identity last series (man plays the suitor for his step-daughter), so I’m not sure what this could be.

Dimmock, look in the lymph nodes.

And the above also goes for the guy with ink in his lymph nodes. What?

The canary trainer?

There is a ACD but extended canon story with the title of 'The Canary Trainer’, which is basically an early Adlock fan fic set after Holmes fakes his death at the Reichenbach falls.

The heart medication you’re taking is known to cause bouts of amnesia.

Not a clue. But since in the episode the case features on John’s blog: why have they really stopped updating the real one? Or why haven’t they at least deleted the Six Thatchers from it?

You can’t arrest a jellyfish.

The one with the jellyfish aka The Adventure of the Lion’s Mane. It was the jellyfish. What a surprise.

Sherlock’s phone. I couldn’t help noticing that Sherlock works a LOT during the first part of the story. We have him solving cases for Dimmock, Hopkins, Lestrade. On top of his private ones. Maybe he is anxious to give whatever Moriarty has set up for him to come his way. Maybe Mofftiss are trying to mirror the ‘That just sort of happened.’ bit with the Sydney opera house serviettes from The Sign of Three.

The really uncomfortable bit with John and the woman on the bus. To everyone who say John is not wearing his wedding ring when we see his right hand combing though his hair: it’s because it’s on his left. When we get the whole bit later in the story, it is there (or just look at the 2 days promo pic). Of course, why they couldn’t flip the shot so that we see his left hand (Martin Freeman is left handed, I’m sure he could have done the shot with his left hand) is beyond me.

The Thatcher case and the explosion. If you hit a car, usually, there is no explosion. Unless you want there to be an explosion. But even then, staging the whole thing can be difficult. Besides, who came up with the idea that cars are airtight, or that corpses don’t smell? Although, I have the feeling the latter one might be an honest mistake.

Mrs H. Since when are we calling Mrs Hudson Mrs H? I know it’s in the books. But that seems like a rather deliberate change in the show…

The client with the badly removed tattoo. I’m not sure what this was supposed to be about. The Red-Headed League. How did I miss this? Also there is a far-fetched parallel to John, maybe (the tattoo man’s wife left him, just like Mary leaves John, in a way).

And then we get this:

- So, what’s this all about, then? - Having fun. - Fun? - While I can.

And I’m tempted to say that’s foreshadowing. Sherlock honestly thinks something is coming, and he is not sure he’ll be able to have fun afterwards.

Toby the dog. The Sign of Four. Mary Morstan’s origin story. In the book Toby is not a bloodhound.

The hacker. It really happened. Twice, I know of. Last year a British teenager was accused of getting is hands on some CIA e-mails. And they speculated he wouldn’t get charged in the end, because of the case of Gary McKinnon who had hacked US military computers back in 2002. But thanks to the British government, his actions didn’t have any major consequences.

Ajay. Last series, we were made to believe Sherlock spent one and a half years as some sort of agent fighting Moriarty’s network. He is supposed to be a professional. I get finding the memory stick in the bust makes him emotional. But why would he tell that stranger Mary’s real name? And later, why would he tell Lestrade of all people that the guy who almost shot him used to work with Mary?

The memory stick. Even a memory stick with a metal case has plastic parts. And those busts had to be put into an oven to harden. Do you know what happens to a memory stick in an oven? And if for some reason physical rules do not apply in the Sherlockverse, then what happened to the chain the memory stick was attached to? That seems like a bit of an unnecessary mistake.

I also don’t get how that memory stick insurance is supposed to work. There were four of them, i.e. four memory sticks. One of them could have easily fallen into the wrong hands.

The hideout below the church. Before Sherlock meets Mary in that church, he already told John. Who told him to plant a tracer inside it.

The American passport. It says it was issued mid October 2014. Do you know what happened mid October 2014? According to John’s blog, that was a few weeks (maybe a month?) after Sherlock got shot in HLV. Maybe Mary thought she’d need to be on the run again. Maybe Mofftiss just f*cked up.

The Culverton Smith poster at the bus stop.

E at the bus stop. I really don’t trust her. John meeting her is not a coincidence, I think.

The question of all questions: Did John cheat on Mary? I don’t know. I do think he was slightly tempted to, but odds are he didn’t in the end. Because a) as half the fandom has already pointed out before me, it would be ooc. Also, if you are married to an ex-super agent, and your best friend can read you date going by your clothing, then I don’t think you’d really go through with it. Or else Sherlock and Mary would have noticed (of course, them knowing about it would give the story a slightly different turn).

Mary takes the bullet. And Lestrade finally learns who really shot Sherlock Holmes a few months ago (was that supposed to happen?).

Sherinford. What does Sherinford have to do with “13th”?

Norbury. That is a reference to The Man with the Twisted Lip, which is basically a case of a man having the day job of a professional beggar to make money for his family.

Mary’s message. “When I’m gone. If I’m gone”. Mary makes that correction every time. Does it matter? The latter one could be read as a condition. Of not necessarily being dead. I don’t know.

Death waits for us all in Samarra. But can Samarra be avoided?

Why does the episode close with Sherlock asking if Samarra can be avoided? He is not talking about himself. Maybe he isn’t even talking about John.

Go to hell, Sherlock.

Of course, the post credit snippet is on this list. We have Mary swearing eternal friendship to him a few scenes earlier. She is asking him to ‘save John’ in her message she recorded on the run. Before she knew Sherlock would find her. So why the sudden change in tone?

Some have noted that Hell is an actual place in Norway. I think that wasn’t quite what Mary had in mind. But there is not much I can offer as an alternative. At least, Hell would give us a glimmer of hope (and yes, I want that on a T-shirt).

If anything, re-watching that mess of an episode made me realise how much I want Mary to be alive again.

#iwant2believe

#sherlock #sherlock bbc #bbc sherlock #the six thatchers #meta #sherlock meta #references #sherlock canon #bringherback #i want to believe

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