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eldritchships · 8 months

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Thoughts on I.D.W. Flatline post Dark Cybertron

First of all, assume that I know almost nothing about Shockwave in IDW pre-Dark Cybertron (because apart from Senator and his Spotlight comic, I don't)

Some backstory: After Flatline was ressucitated/rebuilt by Shockwave*, he spent most of his time hanging around Shockers as his lab colleague, all the way up to and during the events of D.C.

(*This Flatline's jailbreak didn't succeed, and he appeared to have died during the attempt. His body was salvaged and brought to Shockwave as spare material, who discovered the still-clinging spark and brought Flatline back from the brink)

Flatline was an accomplice to Shockwave's plan (similarly to Waspinator or Dreadwing), and he stuck around as long as he did through it for a simple reason: He was blinded by love. Love for Shockwave, but more importantly, love for Cybertron. He wanted to return to the perfect home he once knew, and Shockwave convinced him this plan would do that.

Doubt slowly creeps in over the course of D.C.'s run. There were a couple times Flatline did question the plan as it unfolded, but Shockwave assured him everything was going fine. His concern reached its peak when the time drive was activated and the singularity started to form. He still fought the Autobots and Decepticons that broke in to stop Shockwave, but his mind was preoccupied for most of it.

After Shockwave's defeat, Flatline is left grappling with his possible-future-conjunx dying, and with the discovery that Optimus knew him so closely. Not responding particularly well to either, to be honest.

The aftermath and Megatron's trial give a perfect opportunity for Flatline to cross paths again with Blurr - I wish it had been in better circumstances (what with the aforementioned grief), but I can't deny the large stretch of free time presented. They catch up, it's not the happiest reunion but because their seperation was on good terms, Blurr does manage to get conversation and even a smile out of him.

Somebody, maybe even Blurr, said "This guy is a danger to himself and others right now" so Flatline was put on the Lost Light along with Megatron, like a package deal.

In the beginning stretch aboard the ship, Flatline is grumpy and anti-social. He isn't catching as much heat from the rest of the crew, because obviously Megatron is far worse and more pressing in Autobot eyes. Flatline is very much keeping to himself and not engaging with other people - he spends a lot of time in his quarters, or in a far corner of Swerve's bar when his own room starts to feel too much like a cell.

Eventually somebody's going to convince him to start engaging again, and I have some ideas on who it could be, but this just covers everything during Dark Cybertron & Dawn of the Autobots

#Flatline (OC)#ShockLine #BlurrLine #(both are mentioned/inferred briefly)#I never know how much information people are interesting in hearing so if there's anything anyone would like me to expand on #feel free to ask

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ergativeabsolutive · 1 year

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i think for me the problem isnt so much that I lack purpose in life per se. like yes i suffer from alexithymia but if anything, and not to be cringe, but i'm more of a tragic figure if anything. what i mean is, i usually know exactly what things i want out of my life, and i'm quite capable of choosing between them when they conflict. the problem is, i feel like as i develop purpose for myself, life keeps putting up ethical and practical barriers between me and the things I want, such that I can't find an ethical path to what I want that doesn't involve an inadvisable amount of risk or expending some kind of resource i lack, if any. and personally, ethically, i'm not the kind of person to gamble my life away or step on other people when I can just live on and find a different way to spend my life, since there's so many things i could do. so i can never actually do half the things that might lead towards my ideal. and my justification for this, that there's more than one ideal out there, while true, falls somewhat flat when i struggle to find another ideal that's actually not only achievable but close enough in quality to my old ideal that I can actually feel like I'm living my best life one day without deluding myself. it's one thing to say i struggle with attachment or desire, it's another to understand that there's a reason i'm attached to the things I'm attached to, and that's the underlying problem, not the desire itself. sometimes the impossible appears more possible than the possible itself, and that makes the possible invisible. also there are a lot of unknown unknowns involved in discovering more possibilities, so it's really hard to have faith that i will find a substitute for whatever thing in an acceptable timeframe, and the fear that I might suffer in the future because of that, also causes suffering in the present. so i think the problem isn't that i struggle with finding purpose in life, it's that i struggle with consenting to turn away from those purposes and deliberately choosing different ones, and lose a piece of myself in the process. i can do it sometimes. it's just hard for me sometimes to see what little opportunities i have access to, like i can imagine whatever different lives for myself, but not any that are better enough from the ones i already want for me to actually do the work of changing my mind. i'm a person desperate for control and stability, who instead receives nothing but chaos imposition and constant reinvention, where possibilities usually disappear in the blink of an eye. so it's naturally hard for me to actually consent to fate and choose reinvention. idk my mind is like, built on so many layers of different kinds of grief and i guess it's just hard for me to do the acceptance thing because one of the most fundamental things i believe is that bad things are inherently a problem and problems exist to be solved. i can't integrate it into my worldview that bad things are ok, those things are mutually exclusive. i can accept that i can't do anything about it and i just have to mitigate, sure. but i'm aware of the problem and that drags down the value of any timeline where it goes unsolved. and it's not every day you come across things that make up for that. idk how to overcome that. if that makes sense.

#💚.txt #vent.txt #txt

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kishimotomasashi · 2 years

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I was thinking about Team Minato/Team 7 parallels all day yesterday and came to the conclusion that none of them have just a single member they share a connection to, and parallels can be drawn between all of them somewhat? So here's some disorganized rambling about that under the cut:

Naruto as a parallel to Obito

Most obviously the loser/deabeat of the team, the "idiot", the one who's always being chided for his lack of responsibility

Also just as obvious, they share the same dream of becoming Hokage, though I don't remember the exact reason Obito wanted to. I'll assume it's for similar reasons Naruto wants to.

The show already draws the obvious parallels between them, but one they haven't mentioned and that I find interesting is:

They both share an obsessive focus on the person that is their first friend (Rin for Obito, Sasuke for Naruto). That friend is one of, if not their main motivator. Though Rin is more of a motivator to Obito in a supportive way while Sasuke is Naruto's rival, I think we can still count this. Their goals when it comes to those friends also share the point of "safety": "keep Rin safe/create a world where she's safe and alive", "save Sasuke". In terms of a "precious person", Sasuke is to Naruto what Rin is to Obito.

Sasuke as a parallel to Obito

Most obviously, they literally come from the same bloodline. They are relatives.

They have a similar "descent into darkness": the person they cared most for in the world was killed/wronged by the world they live in, and their rage and grief was violently turned against that world in an incredibly destructive manner. They want the world destroyed/radically changed so as to ensure the suffering ends, and they'll abandon all they had before (namely bonds) in order to reach that goal.

The past (old friends, teammates) try to reach them throughout what happens in the previous point, which they respond to by trying to cut them down

They both have a bond with their rival/friend/narrative-foil character that was established through a personal sacrifice on their part. Sasuke sacrificing himself for Naruto in their fight against Haku, Obito putting his fears aside to keep Kakashi safe and letting Kakashi and Rin live by pushing them away from the boulder so he takes the full impact on his own.

Sakura as a parallel to Obito

While Sakura doesn't obviously look or fill the obvious role of the "deadbeat" in her group, she certainly feels like she does. She feels like she's lagging behind her team, similarly to how Obito feels about his. They're walking in front, and she's stuck at the back.

Which means they both want to be recognized by their teammates in a way that not only makes them equal, but in some ways having greater skill and strength than both of them. When wanting to catch up to Naruto and Sasuke, Sakura's specific wording is that now they will watch her back, she wants the opportunity to walk in front of them. And while Obito probably doesn't feel this for Rin as much as he feels for Kakashi, announcing to her that he intends to become the strongest shinobi in the village and its leader doesn't really scream "I'll humbly stay by your side as a true equal": it says "watch me go, watch my back, watch me succeed".

Naruto as a parallel to Kakashi

They feel a personal responsibility and a personal guilt for the friends they've lost, even if for different reasons, and they hinge a lot of their worth on it. Kakashi is trash because as Obito's friend and teammate, he was unable to save him, unable to even keep his promise towards him. Naruto cannot hope to be Hokage, cannot hope to even live with himself if he can't bring Sasuke back. Kakashi with Obito is a broken promise and a relationship too late to fix, Naruto with Sasuke is an ongoing promise he intends to keep and a relationship he intends to repair, which is what the show was going for; where the past generation failed (Kakashi/Obito), the future generation will surpass them and succeed (Naruto/Sasuke).

Both, eventually, despite recognizing the mess of a world they live in, despite recognizing the flaws of their village and even having been personally hurt by it, just fall back onto defending it again, refusing the radical change it truly needs. Naruto gets Sasuke back and while he prevents him from executing a plan that is Bad, there is no change or justice given to him or his family, with Naruto prioritizing his promise to a dead Itachi rather than Sasuke's lived experience. Kakashi does similarly, in the case of Sasuke rather than Obito, given that an honour to Obito's memory to him would look more like an end to the wars like the one that shattered their team apart, and he got that one down apparently.

Said this one in the Sasuke/Obito point but I'll reiterate: both of them were profoundly affected by sacrifices done by their friends. In Naruto's case I could be stretching since his worldview wasn't shattered in the way Kakashi's was (I mean it was, but not through Sasuke's actions alone, there was also especially Haku and Zabuza's deaths to do that for him), but it was definitely a defining moment in his relationship with Sasuke as Obito's sacrifice was defining in his and Kakashi's, so I'm counting it.

Sasuke as a parallel to Kakashi

Most obviously, being the "genius/capable" person on the team

Having experienced a traumatic loss as a child that affects the way he interacts with others and his team eventually when he gets put with them (Kakashi being ready to discard them because that is how it works in the ninja world, he must follow the rules, he will not be like his father. Sasuke doing everything in his power to make sure they all make it out alive because he will not see another person he loves die in front of him again)

Both being seen as capable prodigies by most adults around them, they were often put in situations most adults could not handle and yet were expected to handle themselves in. Minato thinking Kakashi would be able to move on if he worked in ANBU as his guard, Hiruzen insisting Sasuke continue to participate in the Chunin Exams despite having one of the most dangerous ninja in the world targetting him the whole time.

Sakura as a parallel to Kakashi

While this is more of an act she puts on since Inner Sakura reacts differently, she is definitely the person in the team most concerned with keeping to the rules and being a walking guidebook. Obviously she won't be as insistent of them as Kakashi was since Kakashi himself tells them the rules don't matter as much as people, but she is going to nag at Naruto for not following protocol or being a bit too dangerous in his unpredictability during missions. The more I think of it the more this one is superficial.

A bit more superficial, but they're both the Smart One on their team. The Strategist.

Less superficial, but Sakura does seem to share the idea of "Village Safe Above All, and this Despite..." that both Naruto and Kakashi share. I would chalk it up to her simply not knowing things, like why Sasuke lost his family, but she knows Sai, she knows Tsunade and certainly must know she has a grudge against the village elders, and Sakura's not dumb. Though honestly, I mostly say this because of her determination to kill Sasuke. While she didn't go through with it, somewhere in her head clicked that she agreed, despite her own grief, that there were times where she would need to put down a friend because he was becoming more dangerous, and she went through incredible lengths to make sure to do it herself (poisoning her team, lying to Naruto to ensure he wouldn't be hurt). Reminded me of Kakashi deciding to kill Obito during the war, knowing he wasn't the person he used to known and that he needed to be rid of in order to save everyone.

Sasuke as a parallel to Rin

I see both of them as being the "connecting person" of the team, of sorts. The pillar. The common interest. No team would feel complete with any person missing, but as the series events go, Rin and Sasuke are the "missing pieces" that make their respective teams whole, and the other two members of their teams feel a responsibility towards them remaining in the puzzle: in Kakashi and Obito's case it was keeping her there, safe, in the puzzle (which they failed at), for Naruto and Sakura it was bringing him back into the puzzle (which they succeeded at). Back to that "surpassing the previous generation" theme that this manga loves, y'know? Also, less seriously, think about how often Naruto and Sakura flashback to Sasuke and also how Kakashi and Obito flashback to Rin.

Sakura as a parallel to Rin

Even if she started out disliking him, Sakura did end up becoming Naruto's biggest supporter, having his back (though... a bit more aggressively) as Rin was with Obito, defending him against attacks she thought was unjust against his person, admiring his courage and determination. Sakura is definitely more the Rin to Naruto's Obito once part 2 rolls around.

I cannot find something connecting Naruto and Rin, for the life of me, aside from being Jinchuriki.

Very messy thoughts but I hope y'all get the gist of it?

#send post #7 #WOW this is long and I do think I stretched for some of these but! Let me know what you think!#These aren't permanently set ideas in my brain yet I'm still brainstorming and I would like to have others thoughts #Because even I'm looking at some of what I wrote and was like 'hmm yeah these are draft thoughts'#The ground is soft and I'm ready to dig

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guardianspirits13 · 3 years

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I wanna talk about Natsuo Todoroki for a second here.

tw// mentions of abuse, self harm, and suicide

Natsuo visibly has the most emotional trauma out of anyone else in his family (Touya not included), and I really wanna talk about why that is.

For starters, we haven't seen him really smile since he was introduced in chapter 187. He's introduced as having a friendly, easygoing persona and it's easy to imagine this is how most people outside of his family know him. However, every time we see him appear since then, another layer of his trauma is revealed and expanded upon, and it cuts DEEP.

I think the main reason that Natsuo still seems so vulnerable compared to the rest of his family is different than what you'd assume. Fuyumi and Shouto both spend a lot of time around Endeavor, and have been in close proximity to his (relatively recent) decision to atone. They have seen his growth firsthand and come to terms with it. Rei has obviously taken a very different path to healing- not entirely voluntarily- but she has been working with doctors and therapists for years to change and recover and reconnect with herself and her children. Natsuo is off at college, and takes every opportunity he can to avoid Endeavor. He (understandably) wants nothing to do with him, and shows stagnant resistance to his attempts to atone.

The reason why Natsuo can't move on from the past is because his trauma didn't come from Endeavor. It came from Touya.

Now initially we were led to believe that it was simply Touya's untimely death that still bothers Natsuo, and it makes sense seeing how Endeavor drove him to the edge. Losing his best friend and brother as a young kid without parents to support him or any therapist to speak of can absolutely been the source of persistent emotional damage, but the more and more we learn about Touya's situation, the more evident it becomes that Natsuo's trauma is much much deeper than even grief.

Touya, as we know, was driven by an ambition instilled in him by his father and experienced extreme rejection sensitivity when those ambitions were no longer realistic. Touya's relationship with his parents could be described as insecure attachment, a psychological term primarily regarding how kids react and respond to their parents and other close relationships. As he was raised, Touya learned to equate his potential to be a hero with his personal worth and similarly confounded attention with love. The difference being, of course, that love is unconditional, but even attention was being continually directed away from him as a punishment for continuing to train and burn himself so he could once again become worthy in his fathers' eyes.

This is where Natsuo comes in. At first it was assumed that all of the Todoroki children were born out of Endeavor's strong-willed desire to have a child that could surpass All Might, but we learned that this isn't exactly the case. I'd argue that it was narratively poetic on Horikoshi's part once this was expanded upon. Fuyumi was born to support and encourage her brother, and that is the exact role she plays 23 years later, keeping her family together.

Natsuo's case is even more intersting.

It was bad enough if Natsuo was only born for the potential of his quirk, but it's even more sinister that the sole intent behind his birth was to discourage Touya from his ambitions. I'd say it was to replace him, but it was more to promote the idea that Touya was expendable than to raise aonther kid with the same ideals but the potential to actually achieve it, although that was definitely a secondary motivation.

The parallelism in this is how much Natsuo's life revolves around Touya. He was born because of Touya, he looked up to and took care of Touya as a kid, and the absence of Touya in the present continues to drive him and his decisions in life (but more on that later).

I continue to pray that we will eventually get more solid backstory on Natsuo and Touya's relationship as kids and where it cut off, wether on a bad note or not, but there are a few things we know for certain. One, Touya was mentally ill. Yes, he was rejected by his parents but he seems to have been particularly vulnerable to this compared to any of his siblings since he was the first of them and thus relied only on his parents for validation in his early years. He shows early signs of a variety of different mental disorders, particularly BPD, which I have previously written a whole analysis for on its own. Touya is shown self-harming both by the very nature of his quirk and even by very directly ripping his hair out. He was incredibly self-destructive.

This is why it is so much more concerning to me that Natsuo, who was AT LEAST four years younger than him, was his primary source of comfort. Natsuo was too young to have known anything more than 'my big brother is sad that daddy won't train him anymore' and he obviously wasn't equipped in any way to handle Touya's severe mental illness. Touya most definitely needed professional treaatment as his forms of coping were abnormal even for the neglect and rejection that he experienced. Natsuo comforted Touya through breakdown after breakdown, and more than that Touya relied on him and came to him voluntarily for support. Natsuo was the best option he had, and he took full advantage of that. The main source of Natsuo's trauma was Touya's reliance on him.

Not to say at all that this was in any way Touya's fault- he was mentally ill and desperately in need of some form of comfort to keep him sane; it was almost a survival method at this point since neither of his parents really acknowleged him at all anymore. Touya's instability hurt Natsuo more than parental neglect ever did, but it was the neglect that enabled it and striped Touya of the supportive atmosphere he would have needed at this point not only to prevent but to heal from the mental damage he had already suffered.

Natsuo dealt with this for years and you can see how much it hurt him to see Touya in so much pain, not only from Endeavor's rejection but from his own self harm as well. For Natuso to know that his brotherly love would never be the same as having loving parents; would neve be enough- but at least it was something so he continued to love and care about his brother for little in return- is indicative of the kind of character he is.

(Edit: After the events of chapter 302 we know that Natsuo's relationship with Touya wasn't perfect. I will elaborate more on this in a different post, but I just wanted to clarify that although we were shown a very high-tension scene between them, it is implied that this was a regular occurrence that Natsuo was usually more receptive too but tired out of, in addition to Touya's spiraling mental health. It fit with the natrative to show the tension Touya was feeling with his family from all directions, but Natsu and Touya clearly had a stronger relationship up to and before this point, evidenced by their sharing a room and playing together regularly.)

He is incredibly selfless, and it's interesting to note how many of his positive qualities as an adult stem from negative experiences as a kid. He never really felt love from his parents, so he relied on Touya (and likely also Fuyumi) for that as well. If he grew up learning he had to give love in order to recieve it back, it absolutely influenced who he became in the future, a solid example of this being the responsibility he feels to reach out and have a relationship with Shouto and further regrets that he wasn't able to help his abuse in the past either. Another aspect of his character that intruigues me is how gentle he is. Personality-wise he seems about as opposite as he could be from the awkward, stoic, emotionally-stunted person that is Endeavor.

There are a couple of reasons for this, beyond what I've already discussed.

One, he had little to no contact with elements of toxic masculinity growing up, especially not from Endeavor.

Two, most of the influence he did have growing up was from Fuyumi, who is established to have endlessly cared for him since he was a literal baby.

Three, he grew up in a household where almost everyone around him was in much more literal, immediate pain than he was so he developed a very strong sense of empathy that might also have been tied to early survivor's guilt.

Now I have one important distinction to make, and that's the temptation to label him as a 'softboy' or something of the like after seeing him caring for his family and more pointedly, watching him break down in tears during chapter 252. While there is absolutely nothing wrong with men being soft or vulnerable (on the contrary it's actually so so important and relevant that Hori is writing characters like this in a mainstream shounen manga but that's an essay for another time), it is unfair to label him as such based on a moment when his trauma is being exposed.

Because his truama stems from such a young age, there is a blurry line between just being born with more emotional intelligence and the situation he was in fostering those traits. You know, the classic nature/nurture thing. My point being, it's important to tread carefully when discussing the nature of his personality to avoid invalidating his trauma; I have no doubt that he is very strong for having survived these things, and the moments we see of him onscreen are definitely among his most vulnerable.

Another thing that people less familiar with Natsuo's character might assume is that he is hot-headed and argumentative. I thought that at first too- after all, he doesn't seem to shy away from yelling at Endeavor when given the opportunity. However, this doesn't seem to be the case at all.

The first real scene we see him in with Endeavor, the man walks into the room and Natsuo decides he can't handle it and goes to leave. However, Endeavor happens to be blocking the doorway. Endeavor physically stops him and provokes him to his face, asking him to say whatever is on him mind. While Natsuo is notably not confrontational, Endeavor is. I think it's fair to say that he felt at least uneasy at this gesture. Natsuo is very honest with his feelings, and it's obvious that he's pissed at the audacity of Endeavor to be so oblivious to his own son. This is presumably one of the first real interactions they've ever really had, and at this point Natsuo has been dealing with trauma (caused by Endeavor!) on his own for years, and Endeavor seems completely oblivious to his pain and dismmisive to the rest of the family's as well.

Again during the internship arc Natsuo tries to get along with Endeavor and this time he actually gives it a fleeting chance. Tensions are high, however, and the conversation very quickly becomes uncomfortable, at which point he leaves. It is continually implied that Natsuo is uncomfortable being around Endeavor because his very presence brings up painful thoughts and memories of a time when sharing the same space as him was a warning to run and hide. This is later directly confirmed by Natsuo as he says that every time he looks at Endeavor's face he remembers Touya and the pain he was in.

I feel like an important side note is that we have never seen Natsuo outside the context of his family, which is understandable, as the role he plays in the story directly relates to them. However, if you take a look at Shouto, even though his experiences have shaped him to become who he is, he definitely acts differently when Endeavor's not in the vicinity.

Back to Touya's death, it would be very rare that someone would mourn a death for an entire decade without finding closure unless there are other factors preventing it, and uncomfortably this seems to be the same thing for both Natsuo and Endeavor: guilt.

This is getting incredibly long already, but it's important to note that Natsuo probably felt an incredible responsibility to take care of Touya and protect him because of his empathetic nature. His love was never going to be the same as having loving parents. His encouragement was never going to be the same as having support from Endeavor. Even further than then neglect and abandonement, it was not being able to save Touya that really made Natsuo feel worthless.

He seems to try and remedy this inability to save Touya and diminish his guilt by doing everything he can to be better. He reaches out to Shouto to be a better brother, he consistently pushes his limits to entertain Fuyumi's notion of a happy family, and he's working hard towards a degree rhat will allow him to help people like Touya (and Rei) because he failed to do so in the past.

His bio mildly implies that he didn't have much of a direction he was heading in after high school, but Fuyumi's encouragement led him to seek out his current college career. This goes back to Natsuo's 'purpose' in a sense revolving arount Touya, from his birth to his relationship with him to his death, after which he lost his direction. They were always rather inseperable, so naturally their seperation hit Natsuo hard. He lost his direction in life so when Fuyumi encouraged him to rediscover it, he thought of helping people, because that's ultimately what he was born to do.

Thank you so, so much for reading this if you made it to the end! I clearly have a lot of thoughts on this. Let me know what you think about it as well, and hopefully we'll get more info on this soon in the manga :)

#bnha 203 #bnha spoilers #long post #natsuo todoroki #todoroki natsuo #bnha meta #mymeta #todoroki touya

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purpledragonrp · 3 years

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How do you get over grief over losing bad rp partners who turned out to be fake friends? I’ve lost two and I feel devastated beyond words and feel like it’s my fault. I can’t trust people anymore and feel like they’re all the same. I tend to be clingy and it gets the better of me every time. I really worked hard on taking things slowly with this person and managed my clingy tendencies and they still rejected my friendship. I don’t know what to do anymore. I still love writing. But I don’t love fake people.

I'm so sorry you're feeling this way, Anon! Losing people you trusted and cared about is never easy regardless of how it happens. When this last happened to me I did a lot to get through it - but it basically consisted of doing things that made me happy.

Watching funny movies

Sending people positivity

Drawing/Sketching

Making gifs

Reading/Listening to good books

Listening to good music

Enjoying my favorite sweet treats

Re-reading my favorite fan fictions

Playing games on Steam

Playing with my pets

And the list goes on. :)

I'm not going to come out and say that what's happened isn't your fault because I don't have enough details. But I think I can safely say that no matter how much you think your own actions caused whatever happened, chances are you're not as much to blame as you think you are. I think you may already know that on some level because you refer to them as 'fake friends.' And if you really thought this was all on you, then there'd be no reason to label them that way. In other words, regardless of what you may or may not have done, these people weren't genuine with you in some way.

You admit that you tend to be 'clingy,' but that word can mean different things to different people. Without examples of what you see as 'clingy' tendencies, I can't offer much advice on that or give examples as to how you might work on holding back/resisting those tendencies.

I'm also not clear on what you mean by 'rejected my friendship.' You asked if you could be friends and they said no? They stopped RPing with you? They blocked you? Again, perceptions around terminology are everything, and without a clearer picture of what happened, it's difficult for me to talk about why they might've done what they did, and offer suggestions on how to avoid something similar in the future.

An option you might want to try is keeping things strictly 'professional,' so to speak. Only chat about the RP and your muses and the fandom as they apply to the RP. Be open and friendly and available, but try not to overshare (especially in regards to your personal life) or ask too many non-RP-related questions, unless your partner offers the opportunity by volunteering information.

Ex.

Partner: Man, my dogs are crazy! You: Oh! You've got dogs? Cool! What kind?

The professional approach my not even apply to your situation, but I thought I'd suggest it. This is how I handle most of my partners in the beginning. Mostly because it makes things easier. Cultivating a new friendship takes time and effort and willpower that I can't offer to every new partner - especially if I don't know if they're going to stick around. Doing things this way allows me to get to know them and get a feel for them before making the attempt to treat them like a friend rather than a casual acquaintance.

I'm sorry, Anon, I know this probably isn't overly useful to you. :( With more information I might be able to offer more. But you absolutely aren't obligated to share any more of your story unless you're comfortable doing so. :) At the very least, I hope my rambling managed to help you a little. Take care of yourself, okay? ^_^

#Anonymous #Answered #Losing Partners

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rubyvroom · 6 years

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with his hindsight of having brought someone as consumed by evil deeds like Darth Vader back to the light. Does it really make sense that he would not think he could do the same for his nephew? This is the issue most people have. Its not that people can't change but given Luke's experiences, that scene makes no sense except that Rian couldn't think of any other reason to try and shift blame away from Kylo.

I think it makes sense, actually. Forget Rian Johnson for a minute and think about the time that has elapsed since the original trilogy. Bear in mind that I’m not in the fandom and have no desire to be, this is just my uninfluenced read.

Anyway, take it back to just after ROTJ. Luke watched the Empire slaughter literally millions of people. He watched the Galaxy rebuild from this for decades. His sister’s home planet was destroyed and he probably dealt with her grief over that. His father’s shadow has lingered over the entire galaxy for years and years. A certain subset of people are lionizing his evil deeds and talking about bringing back the empire. They want to literally undo everything Luke and the Rebels originally did and make all of those deaths meaningless.

When you get older, here’s a couple things that happen. You start thinking about the choices you made when you were young. You start really feeling the losses you have witnessed in your life and wondering if they could have been prevented. You think a lot less about individual heroics and more about how to plan for the future and protect as many people as possible (a big theme of TLJ overall). The purpose of the original rebellion was not to save Darth Vader, it was to overthrow the evil Empire. Yes, Luke made it a personal mission to save his father. He did save him, in the end. But what did that do for all the dead people? What did that do to prevent the empire from coming back? Apparently nothing, because it’s all happening again. Was one soul really worth the death of millions? Even your father’s? Even your own?

Now Luke’s been tasked as the sole custodian of the entire Jedi legacy and surely one of his main goals is to keep these young students from turning to the dark side of the force. And here’s his nephew worshipping Darth Vader. Asking all these questions about him and the empire and was-it-really-so-bad and yada yada. All the while growing immensely powerful and showing every evidence of actually wanting to bring back Vader’s genociding ways. He’s not just an average kid who reads about serial killers or whatever. He’s Darth Vader’s grandson with means, motive, and opportunity.

We don’t get a lot of specific details about what Ben was doing that alarmed Luke so much, or how long Luke tried to work with him before things came to this point (it could have been years for all we know) but my read is that this is basically a Hitler As A Baby premise. Luke has the opportunity to potentially prevent many, many deaths by stopping an extremely powerful Sith from joining a bunch of Empire wanna-bes. If someone had killed Anakin before he became Darth Vader, how many lives might have been saved? And if Ben Solo went on to kill even one person, isn’t that a death Luke might have prevented, that he would blame himself for if he sat back and did nothing? Now think of the number of people we watched Kylo Ren kill in the movies alone, including his own father. Just hold that in your mind while you think this out.

Whether it’s the right or wrong decision to kill Ben Solo at that point, do I believe that Luke Skywalker would be tempted? Absolutely. To prevent more deaths, to prevent Ben going the way that Anakin did, to stop the Jedi ways from being used as a force for evil in the universe again, he was tempted. It makes sense to me that he would be tempted to do it after what he saw became of his father. You can even think of it as his own Dark Side temptation moment, depending on how you think of the Force and the whole Light/Dark thing.

But Luke passed the temptation. He didn’t do it. He was ashamed of the impulse and if Ben hadn’t woken up and seen him he would have gone on trying to teach the kid and turn him to the light.

(This is why Luke later wants to end the Jedi altogether - because people with access to that kind of power will be tempted to misuse it, the Jedi training doesn’t effectively train people not to misuse that power and if preventative murder is not an option (and it really shouldn’t be) then maybe the Jedi way is not the best way to use the Force.) ****

Now, did Ben Solo pass that same temptation moment? At the same turning point? Because he is totally justified in feeling betrayed there, and would even have been justified in killing Luke in self-defense. But he did a lot more than that. He slaughtered all the other innocent students, burned down the temple, and went on to join the Space Nazis. So fuck him. Luke didn’t force Ben Solo to become Kylo Ren. “Fuck it, I’m gonna be evil” is not not something he can blame on Luke. Every single thing he did from there on out is on him, and he proved to be an evil little shit.

This gets reinforced when we get another turning point for Kylo Ren in the throne room. He could have done a Vader there. The movie fakes us out that this is what he’s doing. He kills the emperor/Snoke and it looks like he’s doing it to save Luke/Rey. This is where the movie could have gone, oh, he just needed somebody to BELIEVE in him because he’s just MISUNDERSTOOD and that will turn him good! But the movie doesn’t do that. He doesn’t then embrace the light. He does the opposite. Vader didn’t try to convince Luke to turn Dark Side and take up the Emperor’s throne and keep going. And Kylo didn’t kill Snoke to save Rey. He wants the throne himself, and he can use Rey’s power to keep it. He tells Rey to rule the galaxy with him as fascist overlords and goes about trying to murder absolutely everyone, including Rey, for the rest of the movie. And Rey thoroughly rejects him, turns her back on him, and shuts the door on him. It’s done. He’s not redeemable, he doesn’t want to be redeemed, he blames his mistakes on everyone else and wants to go on endlessly revenging himself on innocent people because he’s sad or something. He’s a monster. A pathetic monster. He doesn’t get any more heroic shots or moments after that because it’s been proved he doesn’t deserve them.

I guess where I part ways with your interpretation the most is that I don’t think this movie favors Kylo Ren at all. Rey in the Throne Room scene is doing exactly what Luke originally did - but this time it doesn’t work. And Old!Luke knew that would happen because of the hindsight of his years and because he saw Kylo fail at the Jedi temple. All of the lives and bloodshed he has caused are his own doing, and he needs to be stopped, not saved. If anything, the movie repudiates what Luke originally did, which is what people are *really* mad about, I think, even if they don’t exactly know it. The actual question that nobody’s asking yet is whether Darth Vader was worth saving in the original trilogy if it endangered the rebellion to do it. Much more interesting question imo.

But anyway - to your last point about shifting blame, Luke also gets the last word on this in the movie. Face to face with Kylo Ren, Luke explicitly apologizes for the mistake he made - the moment he was tempted to kill Ben Solo before he had actually done anything evil. That is always treated as a tragic mistake. But he also says, explicitly, that he is not trying to save Kylo Ren, and he rightly does not blame himself for the evil things Kylo has done. The movie ends on this beat, that every single evil choice Kylo made was his own doing, and he needs to be stopped, not saved. Then he doesn’t physically beat Kylo Ren in a lightsaber battle, he uses his Force powers in a way Kylo never imagined doing and could not detect to distract him long enough for the rebels to get away, and also, to humiliate Kylo Ren in front of the entire First Order. He proved he was an immensely more powerful Jedi with greater control over his emotions who doesn’t even have to kill or even physically face his enemy to defeat him. He says he knows Rey will carry on the Jedi legacy and she is stronger than Kylo Ren. The next generation of heroes – Finn, Poe, Rose, and Rey – will use the lessons of the previous generation to defeat the first Order.

The next movie’s almost pointless after this except we get the pleasure of watching that play out.

… I did not intend to write so much about The Last Jedi and I think I’ll stop there. I hope that at least explains how someone could plausibly read the opposite intentions out of that scene, when taking the movie as a whole. As an aside, I was also upset when that plot point was raised until I saw how it played out later in the movie, which made me feel differently. The movie doesn’t excuse Kylo or have Rey redeem him with her goodness or whatever like I was afraid it would, it does the opposite. And in the end I thought it humanized Luke a lot for me, although I certainly understand how making him more flawed would upset some fans of the character. But I don’t think it’s an impossible character progression at all.

**** this little bit is another thing they did in the movie that I loved - Luke’s explanation of the Force implies that maybe it could be open for anyone to use, and the Jedi way of limiting its use to select special people is wrong. This interpretation is supported by the revelation that Rey isn’t descended from Jedis, as well as the little boy at the end of the movie. There isn’t a secret special bloodline that makes the superest force users, maybe this was all a Jedi construct to keep a monopoly on use of the Force as a Jedi thing. Maybe they’re the DeBeers cartel of this universe. This interpretation probably violates fandom lore of some kind and let me reemphasize that I do not care about that at all.

#the last jedi spoilers #star wars spoilers #spoilers #the last jedi #star wars #sorry that asks go up without tags initially and I hope nobody saw anything they didn't want to

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