#also i really wanted to read the iliad but idk if there is a good prose translation/adaptation of it???

[ash-and-starlight]

thank you @mafaldinablabla for the tag!! the game is to share 9 of my favourite books from the last 12 months, or 9 books on my tbr list for this year.

Here is what i’m looking forward to read this year! (my hunt for beautiful covers never ends. in this house books Shall be judged by their cover)

tagging uhh @erisenyo, @chitsangenthusiast, @ranilla-bean, @poikilotherm, @kyoshialone and whoever else wants to do it u.u

#also i really wanted to read the iliad but idk if there is a good prose translation/adaptation of it??? #if any of italian moots has come across one… #blease tell me... blease hmu #ive also been meaning to get more into uhh #social theory books? #if that’s the word? #but idk where to begin #esp bc i read on a short commute and i usually don’t have the brain space to engage with academy level texts #again if someone know a version of this for tired dummies lmk #ALSO cheating a bit bc i already started the seven moons of maali almeida and i’m loving it sooooo much #plus jorjus cover #so rlly the perfect book #realizing i should prolly start a book tag hmm #anyway #send post #oh I'm also looking forward to finish the murderbot diaries it's slow going but I'm halfway through and they're so good

[your-local-granny]

winter break is a dangerous time because ill spend the entire semester going "if only i had a few days off then i could get glasses and see a hemotologist and an ENT and maybe even the dentist and get a credit card and—" and then winter break hits and instead im gaslighting myself into thinking i should read multiple translations of beowulf so i can compare the translations and use it to support an essay on tolkien that i outlined FOUR YEARS AGO AND NEVER WROTE

#RARRGHHHH!!!! #i reread the outline and intro and BRO I WAS COOKING #tragically i was writing this paper in MARCH 2020 so i never wrote it for obvious reasons #its just so UGH!!! i love LOTR as a piece of literature obv i think its great fun but its also so good to research from a historic angle??? #just because tolkien's life impacted his work so overtly so its really easy to trace connections from his diaries and academic pursuits #to his fictional writing #and there's so many good papers already written on tolkien its just nice having an excuse to read it all #and in some ways i like the history surrounding LOTR more than the actual content just because LOTR itself is uhm. white men crusade yknow #so it hits harder when you link it to the actual generation that fought in WWI #idk the history itself is good to explore in how that colored his views especially on xenophobia and industrialization and the end of an ag #anyways. want to read his translation of beowulf but i think itd behoove me to read a more modernized translation first #cause that really helped me w the iliad #I ALSO SHOULD READ A POETIC TRANSLATION OF THE ILIAD #now that ive read a prose version and understand the plot and themes lmao #CHRIST #anyways #portal of rambling #lotr

[finelythreadedsky]

I know this is a very broad question and I apologize in advance for it, but do you have any recs for someone who wants to get into Greco-roman classics? Both in terms of literary works (and specific translations I guess? Like I've seen ppl talk wonders about Emily Wilson's translation of the Odyssey so maybe I could start there?) and perhaps more uuuh non-fiction readings I guess? Anything you think it's interesting/basic reading I guess. I know the easy answer would be to just pick one classic and start reading, but I sometimes fear I'd be missing a lot of info/depth since I don't really have any knowledge of this kind of lit, nor its cultural background, but idk if that's something that actually matters or just me drowning in a glass of water :')

my best advice would be to read the introductions to translations actually! often the translators provide a pretty good broad overview of what's going on with the text, some of the reasons it's interesting or unusual, and some of the major issues that scholarship has been concerned with. translators' notes also can often give you some insight into what the translator has done in order to get the text to you. emily wilson and richmond lattimore, for example, have really good and extensive introductions to the odyssey and the iliad respectively (although i would not recommend lattimore's actual translation of the iliad-- maybe wait for emily wilson's translation to drop or check out my thoughts on iliad translations here). and of the two homeric epics i do think the odyssey is a lot more friendly to newcomers to ancient literature.

i would also highly recommend the greek tragedy in new translations series for great introductions as well as great translations of the greek tragedies. i think aeschylus' oresteia (agamemnon, the libation bearers, and the eumenides), sophocles' oedipus rex and antigone, and euripides' medea and bacchae are probably some of the best plays to start with. i've found that reading a good introduction before starting the play sort of shows you how to read it and primes you to pay attention to certain aspects that you might not necessarily pick up on as a modern reader of a work from such a different culture so long ago.

and i do think that adaptation/reception is a great way to get more into ancient literature and the ancient world. i've recommended a bunch of things here but i'm also loving mary renault's historical fiction at the moment for what it does to really immerse you in the realities of life and politics in the ancient world.

but honestly reading and missing a lot of info/depth is totally okay! a lot of ancient literature works on many levels. whether you know nothing about it or have have a ton of background, there's always some new angle to see, and the things you pick up on or find weird as a first-time reader with minimal background knowledge are also super important.

#mine #ask #anonymous #recommendations

[nikoisme]

Heyo!!! :D Some questions for you!

What are some of your fave parts of the Iliad and Odyssey? And then do you have a favorite by Euripides?

How long have you been drawing?

Since your "lovable little bastard" is a lil calico, does she have any neat patches/spots that are cute? Example, Teddy has a big stripe that curves across her neck, so I like imagining her having "necklace" haha. Does your lil lady have any spots that are cutely shaped? 🥺

(Good luck in school! :D Know I'm rooting for you!)

hello hello :DD this is a much needed break from studying oh god thank you.

For The Iliad,, BOOK 6, THE HECTOR, ANDROMACHE AND ASTYANAX SCENE. Book 10 also slaps obviously, night raid my beloved. The laments over Hector in book 24 too :')) It never fails to make me cry. But there's a tiny little specific part of The Iliad that is my absolute favorite - when Menelaus tells Antilochus that Patroclus was killed:

Idk man it feels so real and raw and hngngng. And Antilochus my man.

Now for The Odyssey i'm basic af but it's the reunion wih Telemachus, Penelope and Laertes :') hits right in the feels. The marriage bed story. The orchard. God fuck. Also the several little moments when Telemachus and Odysseus just,, exchange knowing smiles or glances with each other (when Odysseus is disguised as a beggar). It's just so neat i don't know why. Telemachus doesn't even know Odysseus and Odysseus doesn't know who his son is (yet!!), but they just kind of clicked together (when it came to scheming and plotting ofc. It's in their genes).

Tbh I haven't read too much of Euripides, I have quite a few plays sitting on my bookshelf waiting to be read. So i should probably, yknow, do that hahaa. But my favorite so far is Iphigenia at Aulis! It's just so heartbreaking and tragic and painful and ahdbagshjj. mannn.

I started drawing since I could hold a colored pencil lmaoo. i just did it sometimes as a kid, i liked it and was seen as the "art kid" in school (now that I think of it, I was actually more the "a pleasure to have in class" kid,, but hey i was the one people ran to during art projects lmaoo). It was 2020 when I really wanted to get into it - especially digital art, since I've been drawing on my phone and the family computer with a mouse in godforsaken Gimp up to that point - and I got my first drawing tablet the same year! Funnily enough I started drawing humans about... 1,5 years ago?? I was actually, lo and behold, a warrior cats artist for a few years :'DD

NOW. SHE HAS SO MANY SPOTS THAT I ABSOLUTELY ADORE. For example, all her paws are white - but only one is black with a single white toe:

And she has some incredible markings on her face if i can say so myself:

Especially since the orange marking goes in a straight line across her face, it's so neat. And her fluffy white neck/throat marking :D

And thank you for school AGJSJSDHHH. I have my last test on Monday so I should be finally free next week! The worst tests are over now, thankfully. This is hell :')

#asks #actually i have no idea if my cat is a tortoiseshell or a calico. #since in order to be a calico a cat needs to have white markings i think?? #and a tortoiseshell has only black and ginger. #i know my fur color names okay it's the warrior cats effect.

[otrtbs]

Hiiii how are you??

I wanted to ask if you were inspired by the Goldfinch when you were writing AHB? Maybe inspired is a big word but yk, did it leave a mark on your work? Because recently I read the Goldfinch and I couldn't stop thinking about you and your work. Maybe it's just because of the paintings idk but I wanted to know. Also, what did inspire AHB? Like when did you first have the idea? How much time did you take to actually start writing? Did you do a lot of research?

Anyway, hope you have a great day!!!

hello my friend!!! i'm good how are you??

first of all, how did you like tgf??? did you love it or did you love it?? to me there is only one book ever. screw shakespeare, the bible? idk her. the iliad?? that's NOTHING. there is only the goldfinch by donna tartt. and it absolutely inspired so SO much of ahb! welty's death in tgf heavily inspired regulus' death in ahb! the amsterdam of it all inspired ahb! the way donna tartt writes about art and love and death!!!!!!>>>>>>>> the art swaps were also very heavily goldfinch inspired. yeah. that book is in my bone marrow. absolutely

also super inspired by money heist on netflix and the documentary 'this is a robbery' i would say those are the big three that went into ahb!

but as for inspiration, i was an undergrad art history major looking for more outlets to express my love of the subject and someone becoming rapidly obsessed with the marauders with each passing day. originally, i just looked for art heist jegulus fics on ao3 to read, or just art fics w jegulus in general, and then took a stab at writing one. i would say that planning-wise i just thought really hard about writing the fic for a solid month and then actually opened a google doc one day haha. research-wise, i mainly pulled from experience. i had been in art galleries and museums spaces as a student, a volunteer, and an employee since i was 16. and additionally, i was in university studying the subject so most of the research came from class readings/discussions/assignments or experiences i had working in art galleries/museum spaces!! so while there was some research done for the fic (art-wise) it was mainly information pulled from what i was already learning for school! <3

i hope this made semi-sense!! and i hope you have a great day as well!!<3

#asks #art heist baby! #tgf

[johaerys-writes]

15 questions for 15 friends

I was tagged by my dear @elveny, thank you so much!! 💙

ARE YOU NAMED AFTER ANYONE?: No! Well, yes, after a character in Greek mythology, but not after a parent or grandparent or anything like that.

WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU CRIED?: Yesterday. I was reading the Iliad again for an anon ask and was going through the part where Achilles kills Hector and oooh that scene got hands 🥲 I cry a lot though, I'm a crier, and a lot of the time it's about patrochilles so it's par for the course really lol

DO YOU HAVE KIDS?: Nope.

WHAT SPORTS DO YOU PLAY/HAVE YOU PLAYED?: I'm fairly active generally but I don't play sports at all because I don't like them. I tried several sports while in school before accepting that I simply don't like team sports and I'm not good at them, but I had much more fun with solo sports. I swam for several years somewhat competitively, and I also did track for a while. 

DO YOU USE SARCASM?: I think so? But usually only with people I'm very comfortable with, because I can never know what would go down well or not with a person I don’t know. 

WHAT IS THE FIRST THING YOU NOTICE ABOUT PEOPLE?: That’s hard to answer because I feel like it depends on the situation. Most of the time, it's body language and their general vibe. Meeting new people can be nerve wracking so I try to "read" them and act accordingly, if that makes sense? I don't want to step on any toes or say the wrong thing so figuring out what the other person's mood or interests might be usually helps. But that often means I miss out on other things on first encounter, like... their eyes or smile or something?? Lol idk man, socialising while on the spectrum is hard 🥲

WHAT'S YOUR EYE COLOUR?: Brown.

SCARY MOVIES OR HAPPY ENDINGS?: I think I'll pick scary movies because I do like horror and dark stuff and I don't care if the ending is happy or not as long the story is interesting. 

ANY TALENTS?: it took me so long to think of something for this and I honestly don't know? I'm assuming by 'talents' we mean something you're born with, not something you've worked hard at like some kind of craft, right? In that case, I think I have pretty good visual memory, especially when it comes to books and articles and such, or the written word in general. Oh and I'm weirdly good at orientation, I can usually find my way no matter where I am. Which isn't such a huge deal now in the era of google maps, but back when there was no gps it was a pretty useful skill to have haha. 

WHERE WERE YOU BORN?: Greece.

WHAT ARE YOUR HOBBIES?: Writing, reading, gaming, crocheting, drawing, going to museums! I'm constantly on the look out for new exhibitions and stuff, it's my favourite thing in the world to do. 

DO YOU HAVE ANY PETS?: A darling and dastardly cat, aka my extension when I'm at home. 

HOW TALL ARE YOU?: 1,68m

FAVOURITE SUBJECT IN SCHOOL?: Oh god I freaking hated school, absolutely hated it LOL I can't think of one thing I liked in it. I guess I only enjoyed the very last year of high school when I was preparing for the Panhellenic exams because like... it felt like there was finally some kind of purpose or reason to be there at all, even though there was a lot of pressure. I loved Ancient Greek, Latin, History and Philosophy. 

DREAM JOB?: I don't have one, I don’t dream of labour 🙃 I don't think there's any sort of job anyone could do in this capitalist hellscape we're all currently living in that would be enjoyable enough to make up for, well... living in a capitalist hellscape lol. If I could, I'd just go back to uni, probably. That was my happy place and I miss it. And I'd also write a bunch and read a bunch and take up all sorts of creative hobbies, and probably travel more. 

Tagging forth to a bit more than 15 friends lol sorry (and I know I'm forgetting ppl): @baejax-the-great @thiefylilelf @vimlos @mogwaei @gloriesunsung @aymayzing @cordelia---rose @knicknocknick @aristi-achaion @peachandfig @heypax @darlingpoppet @tevivinter @mary-aries @tragediegh @pikapeppa @figsandphiltatos always with love and without any pressure 💕

#tag meme

[wrongcaitlyn]

I'm sure you've mentioned this before in previous chapters, and I just don't remember, but Will doesn't speak Greek, right?? So does that mean that Apollo never taught him, or was his greek just not good enough to teach him? 😭😭 (ignoring the fact that Apollo had neither the mentality nor the will to teach his son a foreign language at the time)

Orrr, I feel like it's very possible that Apollo just isn't very fluent in Greek anymore bc he doesn't have anyone to talk to. Also, bc he hasn't actually been in Greece in years but like idk

This is probably such a stupid question, but I was just thinking about how Nico's first language is Italian and how overtime he might lose one of the little things that connect him to Bianca 😭😭

Then ofc, my mind drifted to Apollo and about him being fluent in Greek- IDK MAN ANYWAYS I THINK I RAMBLED ENOUGH HAVE A GOOD DAY‼️🫶🫶

ahshhd omg i love this question!! i don’t think ive ever talked about it so the short answer is that no, will doesn’t know greek, he only knows a high school level spanish in this au😭

i actually imagine that apollo didn’t grow up in greece, but in the us (specifically la/hollywood)

his mom probably tried to teach it to him (bc leto is the literal best) but with everything else that he had going on, he just didn’t have the time to ever learn it - his dad always focused more on all of his other hobbies/jobs and his schedule was overloaded enough as it was

but i do imagine that in those years when raising will, he tried to learn it again, just to get in touch with his roots. this is also probably when he first read like the iliad and the odyssey bc i doubt that he read it when he was younger (once again, schedule overload) and generally just tried to learn more abt his heritage and stuff, bc his dad never really brought it up to him

he had been to greece a few times, once for the olympics and a few times for concerts, but he was never really around much to sight see (which, if you noticed, is why i had him going to tourist attractions with nico in athens, when most of the time he tends to stay in the venue or the hotel or tour bus to avoid attention/paparazzi)

but back to the main question - apollo didn’t try to teach will greek bc he was just barely learning it himself, but im sure he’d definitely want will to learn it one day - especially when he would see leo fluent in spanish and nico fluent in italian and thinking how it would be nice to connect will to his culture as well

as for nico, i promise he definitely holds on to italian as a connection to bianca - the last remaining one, too. i think that sometimes he gets scared that he’s abt to forget it, or sometimes his mind will blank on a word and he’ll be terrified (which, tbf, happens in all languages, im bilingual (or trilingual if u count my ap french class which i don’t😭) and forgetting words happens no matter how much u practice) - and so he’ll just talk to himself in italian a bit

i ALSO imagine that whenever he’s talking solely to chiara, they speak in italian. he probably was very excited to hire her for the tour when finding out she was also from italy, and they’re able to sort of keep that going even when traveling the world!

i think by this point, apollo is nearly fluent in greek, but like, the textbook sort of knowing a language. like, he’s memorized all the vocab and grammar and stuff but he’d be a bit clueless in an actual conversation. him attempting to practice his greek in athens would def be hilarious and now i’m sort of upset i didn’t write that💀💀

thank u for the askshkdjs i absolutely love rambling abt apollo and nico likeee ahdksj. so many things i hadn’t even thought abt!!

oh ALSO. ONE OF MY FAV HC’S ABT NICO is that he absolutely loves studying languages. despite being dyslexic, he picks the speaking and understanding part of languages up super easily

so i’m just imagining nico and apollo on the tour bus learning new languages together and nico picking up greek as well so they’ll sometimes try to have conversations in that as well just to practice

they both definitely have duolingo downloaded and are constantly trying to beat each other on the leaderboards

#wrongcaitlyn #talk ur talk asks

[f0xgl0v3]

Talking about Characters from the Iliad/Odyssey that I liked a lot :3

(Alternative: I just talk about people who were on the page for like. A minute and then nothing because I really just wanted to talk about characters who weren’t like. As well known as others?)

Every day I fight the urge to talk about how much I dislike Song Of Achilles-

Okay anyways I wanna talk about characters from the like Iliad-Odyssey (sadly not Aeneid because I haven’t read that yet) that I really like because they always balance out the anger I feel when thinking about the artificial divide that had to happen between Pat and Achilles over Breisis is TSOA because-

Okay, okay aaa that’s not what this is about. If anyone wants to hear my thoughts feel free to tell me because I’d gladly give my take as someone who just kinda knows the myths and vibes with them (there’s a reason the Iliad is my favorite book)

Anyways characters/probably historical figures(??) from the Iliad/trojan war era and the odyssey that I really liked beyond like. The main crew. While I ramble note that I am just someone that likes these guys. I’m not giving amazing riveting new information. I just don’t really want to write out the SoN re-imagining nor do I want to try and revisit the Machaon and Podalirius concept work I was doing (or potentially mess around with some Ulysses dies at dawn concepts because aaa-) okay- okay,

I (obviously) like Machaon and Podalirius. Like I said I have some concept sketches of them buried in my Ibis paint somewhere. I really liked seeing them mentioned in the Iliad when they were, and the two of them just feel like an interesting concept to explore if I ever do more like. Actual mythology not just Pjo stuff here on the blog. Also this is devoid of anything but they have good character to bounce off each other and they live in my brain.

Palamedes! He’s not actually in the Iliad but was a prince who was in the Trojan war. He was the dude that had to fetch Odysseus and he’s also really interesting and I like thinking of him as the ‘straight-man’ to all of Agamemnon’s stuff before Odysseus took over the roll. I also really like his story :3

Is Sarpedon one of the more well known characters? Idk. I talk about Hector on here too so really I break my own rules but I like Sarpedon as a concept (you can tell I like a lot of these characters for the ideas they give the brain.) He’s an interesting fellow. Maybe one day I’ll actually have something insightful to say about him.

Okay Hector. I really like Hector, I like seeing him in conflict with his brother. I like the ideas and how Hector acts and how he like does stuff narratively. I like him for the same reason I like Demetrius in Midsummer nights dream. They’re both kinda just guys who have to put up with everyone around them and it’s silly. He also has the whole really big stone thing during the siege(?) of the Achaeans camps that was fun.

Now are the Odyssey guys and it’s literally just two people who caught my attention in the Odyssey.

Antinous. He was really like ahfiakfbsjjs in my mind. Between getting off the high that was reading the Iliad and being like gently laid down in the Odyssey I really liked him? He sucked don’t get me wrong, but I liked that he sucked. He was a little trash guy and I liked that, hand him over.

Peisistratus. For anyone who forgot him or doesn’t know who he is this is Telemachus’s friend and traveling buddy from Pylos. He just kinda appears at some point and I really like him. He feels scruffy in my head and I think he’s a really interesting character! Also I like the friendship between Telemachus and Peisistratus.

Also shoutout to Antilochus who I didn’t put down but he was also really fun.

Okay wow! I said literally nothing this entire post. But uh. Maybe I’ll actually post things more often about stuff like the Iliad and Odyssey? I’m obviously no like classics expert but hey. I like random people that are in my stories. Also Antinous. I genuinely didn’t think I liked him that much but now that I’m thinking about him he’s really silly- haha funny scruffy man. If anyone asks he is synonymous with the like-

This cat right there. Make it have an ego and boom. Antinous deserves like everything that’s coming to him in the Odyssey and it’s really fun to just watch him rampage

Okay I’m really tired goodnight

#idk how to tag this #hehe :3 #the iliad #the odyssey #no substance post #I’ve only done tags for Pjo what do I use-??? #oh well #okay bye

[dootznbootz]

My turn now... hehe.

Favorite animal? What about a favorite flower? This is very random, but how was your day? I hope it was good! How did you find out about Epic?

Thank you so much! :D You're so sweet!

Ohhhh, I have a LOT of animals I really love! But boiling it down, it's cliche but I will probably have to say cats. Like I don't ever want to live without one by my side. They have such a gentle, soft, and quiet love. As a "busybody" who gets overwhelmed sometimes, it's really nice to have tha calming, soft presence. :D

I also love a lot of flowers but I really love Iris' :D mostly the purple/blue ones as Blue is my favorite color. They bloom around my house and idk if this is normal for them but they smell REALLY sweet. almost like sugar or something! I also like "bleeding hearts" and peonies!

Words from a country bumpkin! Some people know this already but I learned that a lot of folks who grew up in cities don't know this so I thought I'd share! :D Also knowing that some y'all don't live in places where these thrive but either way still fun to learn about!

Also, don't just grab ANY pink clover and do this (some people spray these with pesticides) but I used to do this as a kid (still do honestly) as it's a sweet treat!

If you gently pull out the little "pink stalks", there will be the little "white ends". Don't EAT these but bite down on the white ends and you'll get some honey! :D

And my day is going pretty okay! :D Currently sitting with "Pumpkin", the lil stray kitty that we've semi adopted (we already have cats. and since she hasn't been to the vet yet (saving up) we're keeping them separate. so I just sit and play with her often so she doesn't get lonely.) And she sat in my lap for the first time yesterday! 😭 pretty excited as she was always too "anxious" to really relax in my lap before (mostly just walking across my lap) So I'm happy with that! :D Hope to get some writing today too!

And I got into Epic through seeing "The Horse and the Infant" a lot on youtube and I finally decided to check it out and fell in love with the music already but the "Penelopeeee~" was what made me know that "okay this will be a new obsession" and then fell down the Odyssey rabbit hole SO quick (first read a couple parts of Odyssey, then fully read Iliad, then fully read Odyssey...have read 6 translations at this point(I REALLY like this book, okay??? ))

And really opened up on tumblr. :D was really fucking shy with my ideas before but it's been really nice finding such a fun community

#I mean ofc there's some assholes in the community like with any fandom but I've found a wonderful crowd and it's been so much fun! :D #ask #iroissleepdeprived

[no-cinnamon-for-synonym]

Weird asks: 15, 21, 58!

15. favorite book you read as a school assignment?

My 10th/11th grade literature teacher (I had her twice) gave us the BEST assignments. I love her so so much! I think my fave was Mythology by Edith Hamilton, who apparently did such a good job in her works that she was made an honorary citizen of Athens by the mayor himself.

I loved every assignment and reading she gave us, such as the Iliad, Beowulf, different Greek plays, different Shakespearean plays, a mixture of stories from our textbooks, poems, and a couple other things.

21. obsession from childhood?

Paris. I remember wanting to learn French really bad, but I never got the chance. I was also obsessed with China and Chinese, which thankfully I got to visit when I was little and learned the language to near fluency. I'm still obsessed with Paris, China, languages, and travelling.

58. four talents you’re proud of having?

I do a pretty good job with learning languages and perfecting their accents, I'm able to make my voice sound really funny (idk how to explain it), I have good long term memory (is that a talent?), uhhhhh.... idk what else. 😅

Send me an ask!

[menelaiad]

hi, once I read something like Agamamemnon wasn't sure about the war or didn't even want to start it, and it was more likely that Menelaus encouraged or asked him? are there sources on this or is just a wrong stuff? thx so much!

eHHHHHH 50/50 i think is a safe way to go with this.

it's not explicitly said 'he did this for menelaus. he never wanted it' etc. but you can certainly infer that he's not as war hungry (at least at the start!) as people make him out to be.

even in the iliad there's an element of aga Not Wanting To Be There, but like most hcu things, it's open to interpretation! i'll throw some quotes and stuff here and what I think they infer, but you're welcome to do with them as you will:

PRE-ILIAD

APOLLODORUS: [E.3.6] When Menelaus was aware of the rape, he came to Agamemnon at Mycenae, and begged him to muster an army against Troy and to raise levies in Greece

DARES OF PHRYGIA: Menelaus, having learned what had happened, left Pylos accompanied by Nestor, and returned to Sparta whither he summoned his brother Agamemnon from Argos ... Agamemnon upon his arrival in Sparta, consoled his brother. They decided to send men throughout Greece to gather an army for war against Troy. 

So. here we've got menelaus asking for help. apollodorus even says 'begging' and dares mentions the comfort he provides to menelaus. now. we have NO IDEA how much convincing it took BUT. he's clearly comforting menelaus. there's an element straight away he's doing this for menelaus. to make him feel better. to HELP him. the war never seems to be HIS idea alone (yes lots of sources say he and menelaus came up with it etc. i mean it's never like aga rocks up to sparta like HAVE I GOT AN IDEA FOR YOU, BABY BRO) menelaus has an input. whether it's because he's really sad?? or angry?? idk. but it wouldn't be WRONG to say that he's not doing it for menelaus at all. like to say menelaus isn't a factor in aga's choice??? that's a bold take.

IPHIGENIA IN AULIS

the biggie ...........

AGAMEMNON: I, being Menelaos’ brother and for his own good, was chosen by them to be their leader... How I wish this honour were given to someone else, my old friend! ... This got me so angry that the very next moment I ordered Talthybius to use his powerful voice and call the army to disband. I was not going to slaughter my own daughter, old man! That I could never do! But my brother, using all sorts of arguments, finally persuaded me to commit this dreadful deed!

p. clear. aga didn't want to lead. doesn't want to be here. ESPECIALLY not because of what it entails. it was, again, MENELAUS that pushes him to keep going (i have thoughts on the menelaus stuff but we're just gonn stick to aga for this ask). he was telling the army to fuck off. they hadn't even GOT to troy. so.

AGAMEMNON:  Can you not see him standing in the midst of all the Greeks, telling them all about Calchas’ prophesies and all about how I’ve promised to sacrifice my daughter to Artemis but then went back on my word? He’ll have the whole army eating out of his hand and then make them kill us and sacrifice the girl anyway! And if I tried to run off to Argos, the whole lot of them will come over and destroy the place, raze the whole city to the ground...

'so why does he do it huh?!' .... odysseus. agamemnon is scared of odysseus. the influence odysseus has over the other men is NUTS and aga knows this. now here's where we need to listen: THIS IS HOMERIC GREECE. choosing your daughter over your reputation/kingdom was NOT an easy choice as it is now. DEFYING the gods was NOT an easy choice as it is now. it wouldn't have been so simple for aga. ESPECIALLY the house he comes from.

for risk of this getting too long: aga also believes the greek army will KILL him and his family (who are now at aulis) if they disobey them. whether that's true or not?? we'll never know but it's. genuine fear he has.

why all this? it just shows that like ... going to troy wasn't the 100% endgame for aga. it was not the front of his mind always and forever. he fought with the idea. he had conflicts with the idea. which brings us to:

THE ILIAD

ODYSSEUS TO AGAMEMNON: “Therefore, I do not blame the Achaeans for chafing beside their curved ships; but for all that, it is shameful to tarry a long time and also return empty-handed.”

AGAMEMNON: They took their seat in the assembly, stricken; and Agamemnon stood up, streaming tears like a dark-water spring, which down sheer rock streams somber water; so groaning deeply he addressed words to the Argives: … “Now he has devised an evil deceit and bids me go back to Argos dishonored, since I have destroyed a multitude of men. This, it seems, must please Zeus, supreme in might, who has brought to ruin the citadels of many cities, and will destroy yet more; for his is the greatest power. But come—let us all be persuaded to do as I say; let us flee with our ships to our beloved homeland, for we will not ever take Troy of the wide ways.”

basically here and a few other parts of the iliad - aga. wants. to. go. home. everyone else odysseus always makes him stay or come up with some speech to make aga feel BAD for leaving. what this says to me is .... aga aint that arsed about troy??? do i think there's an element of 'i've gotta see this through my daughter died for this. she cant die for nothing' YES absolutely. he's not completely against taking troy. but i think his motives are different to what people thing.

aga also says if he goes back to argos/greece w/e without taking troy/getting helen back/accomplishing the goal - he would be shamed. people have died for him and WHAT does he have to show for it? he needs something!!

now, im not tryna absolve blame from aga. nope. but again with a lot of things aga-related, it's not as black and white as people think. there are other interpretations, other things to explore other than 'he lead at troy. it was all his idea. crazy hungry war man who wanted troy to burn' like ..... no??? not REALLY???

so to say those ideas are WRONG is unfair. cause i personally can see where they're coming from (menelaus also makes a lot of references to the sacrifices people have made/are making for him and how he hates it. its not too far to say that he's referring to aga in one of those speeches). again. it's not clear. but the opposite ALSO isn't clear.

i hope this helps???????

#long post #long post for ts /// #holds aga in my arms. babygirl #ive missed some i know but this was gettig SUPER long. #but i hope u get my vibe friend <333 #all the best xxxx

[edenfenixblogs]

Thoughts on Natalie Haynes? Ancient Historical Fiction and Medieval Historical Fic Lit Recs?

This isn’t a hate post but it does talk about stuff I haven’t liked in some Natalie Haynes books. Idk if she has a huge following or not, so I hope I’m not incurring the wrath of a fandom here.

I wanted to like A Thousand Ships so much. I really did. But I actually hated it. Especially Penelope’s chapters. A chance to get insight into her whole life while Odysseus was away, and all we got was letters to Odysseus that mostly recounted stuff we already knew from the Odyssey. Like, yes. It is valuable to know how her feelings toward him evolved over the time he was away. But we know she was smart and beautiful and talented. That she raised their son herself. That she managed to keep suitors at bay for nearly two full decades while still maintaining power.

Every time I would read one of her chapters I was so annoyed that we didn’t get insight into anything we didn’t know already about her. There was such a great opportunity to really explore her daily realities and inner life and instead all her chapters were just her being hopeful or bitter about a man. And given that the book is supposed to highlight the stories of the women at the periphery of these classics, it felt like such a missed opportunity. Also, her writing style meandered a little too much for me.

So, with that in mind, are her other books any better? She write about subjects I’m interested in through a lens I would supposedly enjoy, but if they’re all like A Thousand Ships I really don’t want to waste my time. Maybe it was just that particular book that wasn’t for me, though.

I have LOVED all of Pat Barker’s and Madeline Miller’s books. For Pat Barker, I really love her nuanced take on the inner lives of women in Troy/Trojan custody. It’s a truly earnest effort to describe the horrors of the time and the strength of women in a time before feminism was a defined idea. It doesn’t try to apply modern ideas of strength and fragility to the women, and it’s so fascinating and moving. She’s very good at carving out a place for women within the constraints of existing narrative.

For Madeline Miller, I really love how she touched on things we know from ancient sources and, without contradicting them, builds entirely new lore that feels like it fits right in with ancient ideas but still feels remarkably relatable to modern readers.

In terms of translations, I really enjoyed Emily Wilson’s translation of the Odyssey and Stanley Lombardo’s of the Iliad.

I’m also super into medieval (especially British) historical fiction but tend to prefer stuff that is more accurate to historical details we do actually know. I think I’d get kinda pulled out out of the narrative when reading Philippa Gregory books (even though I did enjoy the White Queen/White Princess TV miniseries).

How does Alison Weir compare?

What are people’s thoughts on Claire North? Claire Heywood? Jennifer Saint? Susanna Clarke? Any hidden gems out there for either of these eras of historical fiction/mythological fiction?

I can only check out or buy so many books at a time so I want to avoid getting like 5 on a whim and being meh on all of them.

So, y’all, who are your faves in these genres?

#bookblr #books and reading #ancient historical fiction #historical fiction #mythological fiction #book recs #lit #literature #help #a thousand ships #natalie haynes #pat barker #madeline miller #philippa gregory #alison weir #fiction #Ancient Greece #Trojan war #British history

[cosettepontmercys]

hey love! i just wanted to hop in and see how you’re doing 💜

i heard you’re in a bit of a book slump rn, and my sincerest sympathies, those always suck. i don’t really have any advice on how to get out of it, but i really want you to know that you don’t have to feel stressed or guilty over it. you’ve read an insane amount of books this year!!! i’m so immensely amazed and proud of you. idk early this year i hit a major tv slump, so i just paused and didn’t force myself to watch something if it didn’t intrigue me (that actually led to me reading a ton more!) annotations seem like a fun project, so maybe like making yourself a goal to annotate x amount of chapters per day could help? that way it’s more of a hobby and craft than just entertainment? idk just a thought!

i’m kind of in the middle of a slump right now? my reading pace has just slowed exponentially. i’m reading the all souls trilogy (a discovery of witches) and while i really do enjoy the story, something about it just makes me take ages to read it. i know i will reach my reading goal by the end of the year, but it still kind of stresses me out (also i want to finish the new septembers readathon by the end of the month - i know, i know, i’m still doing it. it was basically just a fun way for me to knock off books that are already on my tbr).

something fun that i want to do next year is read and reread a bunch of shakespeare and watch the adaptions (since someone posted a masterlist on here). i would also love to buddy read the odyssey (or was it the iliad?) with you! i’m planning on getting both on thursday when i go to the bookstore. i’ve never buddy read, so you’ll have to be patient with me, plus it’s kind of a daunting book ngl, but i think it would be fun 🥰 another book i would love to annotate would be the starless sea, i think it would be fun to mark down the different literary references and motifs (though honestly i didn’t understand half of the plot. i was just there for vibes)

lindsay!!! hi friend 🤍 i am in a book slump for sure; part of it is just that i have been very very very busy but i also just haven't really been enjoying a lot of things i've been reading so even if i have time i'm like "i don't reallllly want to read now". i had such a spectacularly phenomenal reading year last year so this year has just been like :( in comparison haha! i was doing that with les mis for a bit and then got super busy and stopped doing that! i think my problem is also that i've been trying to annotate fantasy (the night circus — and i'd started starless sea at the beginning of the year, but then got in the largest fantasy slump ever and now i'm just trying to crawl my way out.

how are you enjoying the all souls trilogy? i've never read it! you've got lots of time to reach your goal — and it really is just a silly number! you can also always pack it with poetry, plays, webcomics, graphic novels, etc! and i'm glad — that's what the readathon was intended to do! 🤍

i think this is the masterpost you're talking about! i've been audiobooking some shakespeares this year and have been having a blast with that! and i would be down to do either; i already own the odyssey, but can always obtain a copy of the iliad! i hope you have the best time at the bookstore! and we can definitely take our time with it — we can set goals / checkpoints, discuss, etc. if you want! and yes the starless sea is SO fun to annotate (i just haven't ... been able to read fantasy lately :( )

hope you're having a good monday!! 🤍 🤍 ily!

#post: answered #mutual: lindsay

[honeyblockm]

I absolutely NEED your takes on tsoa I think I may die if I don't hear someone else talk about it

well they're kind of /neg so if you don't want to hear me complain about it for a little while then probably scroll away sfjdkj

so like i don't think madeline miller is a bad writer. i think her writing is pretty banging actually. I just think some of the ways she took her book was a little. hmm. WELL. it wasn't for me ^_^. Also i didn't read the whole thing bc i did not have interest in finishing it but i have skimmed most of it. The way Patroclus is characterized irks me especially like bro... he got defanged (in service of playing into, in my personal opinion, some :| mlm dynamics). i really do prefer more the patroclus in the iliad where his relationship with achilles was on more even footing. and he was a warrior! a damn good one! and not at all immune to getting caught up in the bloodlust and violence of the war! the trojans literally have to have apollo kill him because he was going on a huge murder spree, achilles' armor or no! i can see what miller was going for w the stuff about portraying the brutality and cruelty of war ig but to me that's a really odd leap to make for the characterization of a main character. Patroclus is nice, ofc. i love that guy. but mannnn let him kill people let him be affected by culture of his time let him folly!

also i feel like the book wouldn't have gained mainstream popularity with the. ........... crowd if patrochilles' characters hadn't been warped into something that could be crammed into easily digestible weird gay tropes. (though i don't think this was the intention of madeline miller.)

next thing. ehehem once again the (sort of) sanitation of shitty aspects of the iliad like... briseis. idk. i don't always want to read the silence of the girls type bare and brutal recounts of all the shit that happened to women. sure. and i guess it mightve been a precipice point for a lot of people who want to enjoy the protagonists? but it also feels weird how it's glossed over like the book's going wink nudge don't worry guys patrochilles are one of the good ones unlike all the other greeks. there's nuance to be had, though tsoa just seems to skate around it instead.

and oh this is an interesting one kind of related to the previous point but the way most of the women are portrayed is a little.. well why are they all set up as antagonists of a sort (except briseis). why are women like deidameia and thetis set up as obstacles between the two protagonist's epic gay love story or whatever, with only the barest of sympathy for their positions in the world?

+ every time i go into the iliad tag i have to scroll past 294020 tsoa posts where everyone acts like a marvel character and honestly, things have earned my undeserved scorn for less. lol

sighs deeply. anyways. it's a fine book. it's literally fine. whatever man there's way worse books and i am speaking from experience. it was kind of fun i liked the odydio snippets. i don't think it's ruining greek mythology or killing people or whatever, I'm just too bitchy to set my differing opinions aside about it. i would know him by touch or whatever that one went is a pretty epic quote. i have another line from it in a tentative webweave document rn. it's pretty cool but i hope queer retellings of greek myths get better from here on out. grits teeth. whatever man

#and obligatory im not upset if other people like it etc. like you do you #i went through the book to double check some things lol. if i want to get pissy and complain abt something at least im gonna get it right #heyyyy it could be worse! it could be worse #asks #tsoa crit

[iworshipsappho]

aaah tack for the tag!! @rosetintedgreyspaces :D <33

Favourite colour and why? ooh red and honestly idk i think i was like 4 or smth when i went oooh blood = cool and blood is red therefore red=cool and i love that for me

Five comfort movies: oof uhh red white and royal blue for sure yeah, maan karate,vip and remo are some really feel good tamil movies for me and uhh badhaai do :33

Favourite season and why? oof definitely has to be whatever we have from october to january here. literally all the other months are hot humid pressure cookers :')

Favourite book(s): YOU CAN'T MAKE ME PICKKKKK. but like the obvious answers here are RWRB, the song of achilles, one last stop, ooh room on the roof by ruskin bond one of my comfort books for sure, oh and this one book i read called my life as a book, changed my life as a kid honestly. other than that we have the toa series and uhh the iliad and odyssey which i havent gotten to yet but do love

favourite aesthetic(s)and why? mmmm im a big fan of dark academia but tbf i do love most aesthetics in varying multitudes, never really got much into it

Favourite genre and why? genre as in music or media?? idk in media it is definitely queer romance atm used to be mystery and mythology. and for music i more or less listen to anything and everything thats vibey

Favourite clothes style: baggy tshirts and shorts >>>>> but thats usually for at home. when i head out ive been layering a baggy tshirt over a white shirt paired with brown pants/jeans off late. layering is one of my favourite styles for sure, the whole academia vibes or the 'teenage dirtbag' style is what i usually go for ig

Favourite music genres: ohhh music here, yeah as i said if its good me likey

Favourite artists: oof long list coming up :]] uhh taylor swift, omar rudberg, the front bottoms, wilbur soot as well as lovejoy>>>, jeff satur my beloved bottom, cavetownnnnnn, conan gray ofc, queen and then uhh mitski

Favourite song(s): i for the life of me cant possibly pick now can i???? BUT rn ive been obsessed with theseee

Favourite fandoms: young royals fandom my beloved, closely followed by mcyt bc that was my firstever proper fandom and fuck yeah for that!!! (still very much into that so les gooo qsmp and tommyinnit my beloved) and well im not really part of any fandoms save for these and rwrb tbf? oh how could i forget!!!! KINNPORSCHE!!!! love that for us

Hobbies: oof uhh reading, writing and playing minecraft or watching cubitos on minecraft probably lmao

Care language you give: i think i usually show my care in the form of words i think? pretty sure yeah

Care language you like to receive: mmmm physical touch <333

Are you an introvert/extrovert/ambivert: ehhh its pretty fluctuating. used to be introverted, getting more and more out of my shell off late. so ambivert it is ig

Morning or night person? again idfk at this point man what even is time anymore fjdksgksfg uhh night person probably tho i like satying up faaar more than i like waking up early

City, country or suburbs and why? uhhhh never really thought about it? idk on one hand i do want the quiet of the country but idk if ill survive with the constant bustle of a city ykn. and never really experienced to much of suburban life except for when i lived in australia for a few months so yeah idk

Favourite time of day and why? that time between like 5-8. the hours go by so quick and hte fucking sunset etc etc

Do you have any religious beliefs(don’t have to answer if not comfortable)? mmm vaguely religious from time to time

What does your ideal family look like to you? again its faaar too much in the future for me to have given it a thought but but ik for sure that ive always wanted kids, so thats the only definitive there

Dream future: mmm im an author lving in a little cottage just surrounded by overflowing love and creativity and nature etc etc. very ruskin bond-esque

Dream place to visit: greece and rome for sureeee. and thenn uh nyc just for the vibes of it ykn also uhh sweden for reasons ;)

Favourite type of nature: mmmm rainforests my beloved. absolutely love the earthy smell and just how fucking alive it is man like >>>>> oh also the fucking hills of north east india. lomls would drop everything and go there again no questions asked. and ofc beaches. be aches are just based

Favourite habitat (eg jungle, desert, tundra etc): mmm i have a special place in my heart for tundras and the savannah idk why. i just love that life fucking THRIVES despite ykn the harsh(er) conditions

How would you describe yourself in 4 words: dumb, enthusiastic, creative and uhhhh complicated

If you could be another thing on earth what would it be: oooo idfkkkk theres just sooooo many options i could literally be a fucking manatee!!!! or a vampire or or a mudskipper!!!!! wait can i be food?!?!?! id be garlic man ajskdsfl the fucking irony of wanting to be both a vampire and a garlic clove oooh id love to be a grapefruit ngl. omg i could be an actual monkey???? id be one of those spider monkeys man so fucking cool. gosh i could just oughhhh creatures and inanimate shit man. so cool

Favourite type of weather: i loveeeee thunderstorms. top tier weather. as long as its not during deepavali. if it rains when im trying to burst my crackers? im sorry but earth can perish /j

If you could travel anywhere right now we here would it be: is my girlfriend's house a valid answer? bc thats where i wanna be right now baksdflsd. uhh idk tbh maybe like oooh i wanna go to puducherry ngl i miss the beachhhh even tho i literally just went like a week ago man. its right here-

Do you have any fears (serious or otherwise): ehhh not as far as im aware. not materialistic ones atleast. ive always had a fear of being forgotten or left behind

Dream job: uhh a writer for sure

Would you be a pirate/vampire/cowboy/astronaut/werewolf/wizard/witch/knight/cryptid and why? VAMPIREVAMPIREVAMPIREVAMPIRE!!!!! i literally get to suck blood in the most homoerotic way possible- what more could i literally ask for ahfjdsflk pirates/knights are a close second tho fucking love them could go on a whole tirade if i wasnt to tired for it

tagging uhh @elblorbo @stygianirondiangelo @foxtriestobiteandmaimandkilland @daylightsimon @desi-yearning @altruistic-meme @spaghett-onaplate @mirabel-on-a-bicycle

💜

#tag game #methinks mesays.

[bladling]

Tag Game To Better Know You!

Send this to people you’d like to know better!

tagged by @anakincito ily bestie <333

What book are you currently reading? lord of the flies by William Golding, and the Iliad

What’s your favorite movie you saw in theaters this year? I literally only went to one movie this year and it was Pearl. 6/10?

What do you usually wear? sweater top with a cardigan, and black skinny jeans

How tall are you? 5'5" (165 cm)

What’s your Star Sign? Do you share a birthday with a celebrity or a historical event? capricorn and idk any celebs i celebrate it with but i share it with my forever boy, kageyama tobio <3

Do you go by your name or a nick-name? cant really nickname my name! ppl think my name is a nickname to something else lol

Did you grow up to become what you wanted to be when you were a child? no but im working hard to get there!!

Are you in a relationship? If not, who is your crush if you have one? yesssirrr (sorry to break the news to my heartbroken followers </3)

What’s something you’re good at vs. something you’re bad at? im good at everything ever in the whole world and can totally interact normally with people

but fr im good at visual arts, and bad at remembering where i put my mf glasses every morning

Dogs or cats? CATS!!!! im so soooo picky on dogs

If you draw/write, or create in any way, what’s your favorite picture/favorite line/favorite etc. from something you created this year? my favorite piece ive made this year has been my obi-wan oil painting!

What’s something you would like to create content for? whatever is my hyperfixation at the moment. It's been nothing but Star Wars for over a year now LOL... i make content for ME!!! (i also hate the term content... i am not creating content i am creating art)

What’s something you’re currently obsessed with? obi-wan and anakin having boy pussies

What’s something you were excited about that turned out to be disappointing this year? i was excited for the "2022 will be my year!" and girl it was NOT!

What’s a hidden talent of yours? not hidden but im very talented at being funny and like myself for that

Are you religious? yes, im a very proud jew. im very close with two jewish communities with my family

What’s something you wish to have at this moment? 5 bagillion dollars and a house in the middle of nowhere

i think anakincito got most of u guys but tagging @jedibongrip @kyberkenobi @unspuncreature @secretsolarsystem @lilredghost @circusvet @inkspottedtea @gent and whoever else is hot and sexy

#tag game