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vaguely-concerned · 2 years

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I have seen people question whether dios apate minor really needed to happen the way it did. it's the 'this could have been an email' of htn. 'augustine this did not have to be a threesome', I hear people saying. and boy do I have an obnoxious amount of things to say to protest this perfectly sensible assertion so here we go haha

1) yes it absolutely had to be like that. It says so on this piece of paper *hands you a piece of paper that says "because I said so and also it's narratively and thematically Sexy"* in my half-legible handwriting. seeing tamsyn muir describe harrow the ninth as a book about being a kid and realizing your parents probably had sex has given me such validation, I am unstoppable now. (to be serious for a moment, harrow the ninth is essentially a bildungsroman, and the threesome scene does a whole lot of thematic heavy lifting around harrow glimpsing elements of adulthood, relationships, and sexuality she clearly finds at the same time repulsive, bewildering and fascinating, and around opening her and especially our eyes to how much john is just a man with human longings still, under the god stuff. dios apate is crucial plot- and character-wise too -- it's a loadbearing threesome in terms of delivering the clues you need to piece together the mystery plot of the book, which is simply delightful -- but even more so thematically. and then the scene at the end where they confront john gives gideon some of that same opportunity to peek into adulthood and go '...well shit I guess', as a sort of mirror, just without the french kissing that time and more murder. the things magnus and abigail model for the girls about love and adulthood? mercy and augustine are providing the opposite-day batshit insane version of that fhdskjfa, you know, for contrast and spice)

2) listen... it gets lonely out there in deep space with your 'legendary unamorous' brother, two infant pathetic baby kitten sisters who you'll probably have to kill one day when you take another stab at god if they don't manage to get themselves killed along the way on their own, and the two people you've spent the last ten thousand years having separate yet connected married & divorced arcs with and also btw one of them is god... honestly a threesome over the dinner table is probably The most well-adjusted reaction one might hope for under those circumstances

3) on a characterization level I think Augustine is actually doing something incredibly deliberate with it: he's presenting John with yet another chance to admit what he did. which is notable especially since the deal he and mercy agree on as a condition for the threesome to happen at all seems to be that they're going to give the ol' godslaying another game try sooner rather than later. (I get the sense that it's not so much that he disagrees with her ultimate goal so much as that he thinks she's being dangerously indiscreet and hasty going about it, before. “though I think it will be the death of us,” huh.)

notice how he's structuring the whole thing: he's invoking the intimacy and love in their strange little threeway relationship and how long it's been by truly playing along with john's 'we're a happy family really when we're at home! :)' delusion (helped along by lowered inhibitions via enormous amounts of alcohol and what I've previously described as a joint mercy/augustine leyendecker themed thirst trap. ah, a classic). he brings up alecto and what happened to her -- or rather, he is clever enough to make john bring up alecto and how she is totally dead, right?? by seeming to make a careless statement that leads there and then acting contrite about it after. he (helped along by mercy, who I think realizes exactly what he's doing -- this is very much a two-man con) brings up how much they all loved their cavaliers, and wow funny how that's been haunting us for ten thousand years now huh :) wow, a lot of our other lyctor friends slash family sure are super dead in the name of some unknowable greater reason neither of us quite grasp and that you won't fucking tell us, aren't they. these are all the main grievances he and mercy confront john about at the end of the book, but put forth much more subtly and not phrased as an accusation -- he's baring his and mercy's vulnerabilities as bait, essentially. if john had, say, a conscience where his conscience should be instead of a black hole, it probably should have stirred something in him.

(also let me just say... the way augustine just takes a pneumatic drill to the TWO tender spots g1deon seems to have and then has the audacity to be like 'oh dear. did that upset him. ooof my bad *loooong dead-eyed slurp of his wine*' is just sooo... he's such a bitch!!! he's the only person who could ever have held their own in a ten-thousand-year bitch-off with mercy and I love him so much. well even if it wasn't all to get g1deon into murder range for harrow I think he wouldn't enjoy sticking around for the 'getting our tongues on god' part of the evening so maybe it's a kindness, really, and totally not pent-up aggression from the last twenty years or so breaking through)

he is all but shaking john by the lapels begging him to just... come clean about it already, to stop thinking he's still kidding everyone else along with himself. it's clear throughout the book that augustine knows exactly what john is at this point -- and all of the most cynical things he does say about it turn out to be distressingly right. john is always less sentimental than you'd think. john wouldn't forgive mercy, he will abandon in a heartbeat anything that isn’t necessary to him anymore, whether emotionally or in some other way. and still he seems to hold out some desperate absurd hope that the man he wants, the man he thought was there, is in there, somewhere deep deep down, if he just gives him the chance to show himself.

(mercy definitely has her own side of this whole thing, I'm just focusing more on augustine because this evening was like. his idea in the first place and I feel like we can Read Some Things into that fact lol. now that we have both ntn and htn to go from I sort of have this sense that the things augustine wants from john are more... personal? more interpersonal? they both love him equally, but mercy's love seems tinged slightly more towards the religious (augustine accuses her of knowing 'only worship without adoration', which like... also the eight house's entire Vibe lol) -- mercy at the end of that book is totally a person breaking up with GOD, not just with john -- while augustine's vibe is more like a man in the last not-with-a-bang-but-a-whimper days of a marriage that sort of felt like it could have been something real and good once but all your illusions about it have since been taken from you and trampled underfoot into the mud and you've had the divorce papers signed and ready in a drawer for over a year now, hell, as it turns out, is other people etc. lmao)

having a threesome over the dinner table with god is one thing, having a threesome over the dinner table centered on the one man and god who has yet again let you down in a way so fundamental it can barely fit into words and who you both still love in a way anyway, miserably, and also just reaffirmed your joint resolution to murder (all under the pretense that it gives your baby sisters the chance to murder your brother of ten thousand years yeah that's why this is happening no other underlying aching emotional motivations here haha)... listen mercy and augustine are simply on a different level, theologically. they've added horny shrimp colours to the religious spectrum. who else does it like them

#the locked tomb #harrow the ninth #augustine the first #mercymorn the first #john gaius #dios apate minor #bad cop worse cop and sorry cop #augustine 'when I die I want john to lower my casket #not so he can let me down one last time that's honestly a given at this point #if at all possible I just want to pull him down into the grave with me' quinque #first saint to serve the king undying #nona the ninth spoilers #nominally? in that I am saying there's relevant information to this polycule clusterfuck in it? eh let's just be safe lol #just when you thought I had no more thoughts about the terrible old people to unleash upon you... here I am again hahaha #the locked tomb meta #also yeah I mean I guess they didn't actually have to get their tongues on god on-page for all this to still be true #but I'm glad they did let them have some lyctor enrichment #hate fucking is actually lyctor love language hashtag did u kno

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artheresy · 4 months

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My dynamic for Dan Feng & Yingxing

Hi hello, I said I would finally post this after long debating over if I show it here first or in my fic first, but fuck it. That’s a long ways away and I need to rant about them because they take up too much space in my brain.

So this post, isn’t me claiming that this is the canon dynamic between Dan Feng and Yingxing or that this is the only right one or whatever. This is purely my own view of what I think their dynamic would be based upon how I see their individual characters with the little bits and crumbs we’ve been given so far in HSR. I can’t go over every single aspect of them here because I just purely can’t think of every single thing so this is primarily going to be talking about the fundamental key parts of my interpretation of their dynamic! If that makes sense, I’ll hop right in

Be warned, this is pretty fucking long, I think so much about them it actually hurts me physically, like it’s painful. This is me just letting my autism run while talking about two of my favorites, so be cautious… sorry in advance if some areas turn into tangents, again I think about them so much its actually too much I think about them too much

AGAIN, THIS IS MY VIEW OF THEM!! Based on the characterization we have so far which isn’t a whole bunch, this is my interpretation of their relationship based on how I view the bits of characterization we have and what we know about them

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Okay so one of the biggest and most fundamental parts that influences how I view their dynamic and the course of their relationship is looking at how exactly and why exactly I think they became close. Jingliu in her companion quest says:

I think this statement she makes “to see someone so arrogant get along with someone so proud” is actually the foundation of why they get close and their dynamic works rather than an obstacle that they somehow overcome. Specifically, I think that it was Yingxing’s arrogance (partially genuine and partially a habit born for the sake of his own survival) that allowed the two of them to get close. When we see lines from Yingxing via Dan Heng’s memories or via the Mirage Echo, though he uses Dan Feng’s proper title, he seems to talk rather casually to him. Even in a tense situation as secretly being in Scalegorge Waterscape for research would seem, Yingxing still is very lighthearted and in some languages, even laughs a little as he banters with Dan Feng. I have my own headcanons for why he has this casualness to him, but either way it’s a genuine part of him and a part of his canon characterization. I think that casualness, a product of his confidence/arrogance and maybe a little of his obliviousness as well, allows for them to get close. It evens the playing field, Yingxing sees Dan Feng as his equal, as a person, as Dan Feng rather than as his position of Imbibitor Lunae High Elder of the Vidyadhara. I could speculate all day whether or not other people had treated him similarly before and he shot it down (there’s a lot of the actual evolution of the dynamic that I will write I swear), but I think there was something very unique in that casualness that Dan Feng might not have experienced before, not from anyone else, not from the other members of the HCQ he had met before. Perhaps even Yingxing’s background would play a part in how shocked by his behavior DF is. Either way, it is that casualness, that equalness unlike he had ever experienced before, mixed with all of Yingxing’s other characteristics such as his cheeky nature that manages to quickly break down Dan Feng’s walls and make him feel compelled to grow closer to YX. Whether their first meeting was via Baiheng and Jingliu or a chance encounter before they eventually join the HCQ, Dan Feng is coming away from that shell shocked by the sheer audacity of this short life species, feelings he first interprets as offense before he realizes he’s actually amused/interest in him, and Yingxing walking away like “Huh? That was the High Elder I guess. Seems nice, a bit stiff tho!” There is no worship of Dan Feng from his side for any reason, not for his skills, not for his position, not even as an unattainable ethereal beauty situation. He views him as just another person, an equal, and no part of him views DF in this cocky “he’s not unattainable bc I already have him” kind of way because…

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Another fundamental in my personal interpretation of their relationship is that Yingxing doesn’t truly seek anything from Dan Feng nor does he ever necessarily try to pursue him. And all of this isn’t in an insecure “We’d never work” kind of product of overthinking way of choosing not to pursue him. Rather, it’s primarily because Yingxing doesn’t feel the need to. He doesn’t need his romantic feelinhs to be satisfied or fulfilled especially with the difference in their lifespans. As long as he can be by his side and stay close with him until his time comes to an end, Yingxing is truly perfectly content with that. A lot of this additionally stems from a certain place. That being that after he gets to know Dan Feng better and learns of the sheer pressure he endures due to his position, the choices he feels he’s forced into, the level of restriction, even with all of the influence Dan Feng still has, he doesn’t want to be an added source of pressuring or discomfort. To sum it up, Yingxing leaves the ball in Dan Feng’s court so he can act as he sees fit when he feels like it. There’s an added layer to this also of Yingxing not wanting to ruin the current state of their dynamic (a topic I’ll get into more). In the end, this is just yet another part of Yingxing that utterly pulls Dan Feng in. He is very used to being distrusting of others and refusing to get close to many people, primarily out of wariness of the potential ulterior motives people may have when befriending him. Contrastly, Yingxing doesn’t expect or even want anything from Dan Feng even the closer they get. Dan Feng can see that, and it makes him trust in Yingxing. Makes him trust to the point that he feels comfortable enough to make attempts pursuing Yingxing himself rather than meeting at a stalemate, refusing to go after a man Dan Feng knows won’t chase him as to not risk pressuring him and bc he’s fine with how things are. That isn’t to say though that Yingxing won’t respond to any attempts Dan Feng makes first though, because he absolutely will. Well… that is if he can recognize any attempts from Dan Feng at all because he can be rather oblivious in the face of people making advances at him-

An added part to all of this is that Yingxing with the way he acts, both in general and in this specific regard, ends up being part of what helps influence and encourage Dan Feng to do more to take what he wants, actually follow his desires in certain aspects rather than keeping up his stiff outer image and denying himself of everything for that sake of his position. The HCQ in general all have influence helping Dan Feng open up more like this, seizing things instead of either waiting for things on a platter or never having them. However, Yingxing's bold nature is definitely the strongest factor as he ends up helping Dan Feng learn to identify what he wants for himself. Whether that want is something as complex as moving forward in a relationship when not only has Dan Feng had very little experience with close connections to others, but also is so accustomed to the stillness of long life, or something as simple as taking breaks and time to himself to live and breathe and experience life moving around him. It's through Yingxing (and the rest of the HCQ) that Dan Feng learns to be more selfish. It's through all of their care and kindness and love that Dan Feng learns that he too is not merely a pillar to stand tall for his people. That he is a person with needs and wants, and it is perfectly fine to be selfish and prioritize yourself at times.

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So that previous section got into a little bit of Dan Feng’s trust in Yingxing, but what about Yingxing’s side of things? What about his trust in Dan Feng? I dunno what it is about him, but I feel like Dan Feng is the kind of person who can hear some of the deepest confessions and see the barest parts of the heart of someone he cares about and not treat them any differently like as if they are fragile y’know. Like Dan Feng is the person who Yingxing, out of all the HCQ, can truly confide in because he knows he won’t be seen different or treated in a drastically different way. Ultimately, Jingliu isn’t someone he feels he can go to for super emotional things which she likely herself knows she wouldn’t be able to help much with, Jing Yuan and him have a very light hearted joking dynamic that makes changing the tone and breaking the mood for a deep heart to heart much harder so he doesn’t often do it, and Baiheng… well, deep down Baiheng still sees Yingxing as that disheartened little boy, who had lost everything and was being told that there’s nothing he could do about it given his lifespan, that he couldn’t avenge what he had lost. If Yingxing were to tell her how he honestly truly feels about everything in his life, the traumas he still hadn’t overcome or the thoughts that plague him every day, he knows she would end up fretting over him, mother hen style. Being overly cautious as if his mind is made of glass, and as much as he loves her, he hates the idea of her changing how she treats him because of just how much she cares for him in turn.

(It’s a trait I see Baiheng having as to it being an obstacle in her other relationships like with Yingxing but works well in her relationship with Jingliu, caring for her and treating her softly, not underestimating her, in a way that others are too afraid to treat the unwavering, ice cold Sword champion! Matching DF and YX’s whole situation with his arrogance and casualness)

In the end, Yingxing feels like Dan Feng is the only one he can truly trust with the deepest corners of his heart and mind without worrying of Dan Feng either judging him or suddenly treating him like a fragile piece of porcelain. Even if he were to take note of something Yingxing told him and do something in response perhaps to ease his worries or heart ache, it would never be something out of pity or thinking Yingxing to be unable to take care of himself. Because ultimately, that’s where this all stems for Yingxing. He has lived so much of his life underestimated, whether having his skills and abilities questioned for being a short life species or sometimes intentionally sometimes unintentionally having his ability to take care of himself questioned like he needs a caretaker. Something that again is partially due to again to being a short life species. What Yingxing likes about Dan Feng is from the moment he met him, he doesn’t feel as if he is being questioned or underestimated. Dan Feng makes him feel as if he is truly seen as an equal, even with their distinct difference in power. It’s a treatment from Dan Feng that serves as a response to Yingxing’s own treatment of Dan Feng, his casualness to the other man making it clear he sees him as an equal as well.

And that? Well that is perhaps the most important part of the dynamic. In canon, they both have struggles with how they are seen and treated by others based on preconceived notions about their status. Dan Feng being in a way dehumanized as he is put up on a pedestal for being an incarnation of Imbibitor Lunae, for being the High Elder of the Vidyadhara, a position that he wants to escape because of the sheer loss of identity just a role brings. Yingxing being underestimated from the moment he stepped onto the Xianzhou because he wasn’t a long life species to the point that the other celestial masters on the Zhuming borderline bullied him into doubting himself, thinking a lot about his own death, and as a young boy (not even a teen yet), literally saying “Maybe I’ll never live to see the day my parents are avenged.” In my view of them, for them to truly be as close as they are established in canon, I think that from the start of their dynamic they make it very clear they see the other as a genuine and true equal in a way that other people haven’t or perhaps, can’t fully.

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I said this before my in Aurizzm Yingxing post, but yeah, I don’t think Dan Feng or Yingxing would have come into a romantic relationship with each other with any experience at all. I know Dan Feng with no experience is a very accepted idea, and I agree with it very much given his isolated position and his proud attitude and that 100% plays into my view of their dynamic. I also however, firmly believe Yingxing came in without any romantic relationship experience too. The difference here ends up being in how inexperienced each of them are. Yingxing has had a lot more friendship experience, and he’s experienced crushes before which is how he can identify his own romantic feelings better than Dan Feng. But he’s never actually been in any relationship. He’s never had the time, he’s got his own goals in mind while being painfully aware he’s on a time limit, and let’s be real like I said before, This Man is married to his Forge. Meanwhile, Dan Feng truly hasn’t had any friendships prior to the HCQ. Knowing him and her too, I firmly believe Dan Feng and Jingliu’s relationship for example, was for maybe a few decades, maybe a literal century, just them sparring without words from time to time. So Dan Feng not only going in with no friendship experience, but I think that man also is having to recognize some new emotions and feelings he’s never experienced nor can put words to. So Dan Feng’s disaster comes in being painful aware of the presence and intensity of his own feelings… he just doesn’t have the words nor experience to recognize exactly what those feelings are. It’s an absolute disaster on all fronts, somebody pray for the HCQ who unfortunately have to experience all of this.

There’s an added layer I want to go more into looking back at the first part of why their relationship works and the thing I said about the Baiheng trait. As we saw with Jingliu admitting to her feelings towards his attitude as a child, she wasn’t… she wasn’t really a fan so to say of his arrogance. And given y’know, what we see of the people of the Luofu, I don’t doubt many people have similar reactions. Part of Yingxing’s limited experience comes not only from his own decision to not pursue anything, I think part of it comes from being for whatever reason feeling distaste for him. Whether it’s their own prejudices against Outworlders, or his bold attitude and lack of formality that makes any interest they had in him end up flying away. Which ugh, makes it even more special that this attitude of his, born out of necessity for his own survival on the Xianzhou and for his ability to move forward in his craftsmanship after all he went through, which has pushed so many people away, ends up being the exact thing that allows him to get close to Dan Feng. IT’s UGGGHHH Sorry, but I just need to scream. I NEED TO SCREAM ABOUT THEM OKAY?? THEY TAKE UP TOO MUCH SPACE IN MY BRAIN, I CAN’T HAVE A SINGLE MOMENT OF REST BECAUSE OF THEM

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Again, this is my view of them and their dynamic based upon what we have been given in game so far, the crumbs of characterization we have. God I hope we get more. This isn’t me saying this view of them is canon or anything, this is just how I view them. This is the dynamic and thoughts that have grown like mold in my head from thinking about them WAY too much.

I have so much more I could talk about, certain specific things or things that don’t even immediately come to mind right now. If you want to ask more about how I view them or have some topic or aspect of them in mind, please hit me up. Either send something to my inbox or bust your way into my dms to talk about them. I love them so much. They mean the world to me.

And honestly? I could just make two whole separate posts also just about how I specifically characterize each of them, but I think I need to let my brain rest a bit.

And don’t think about this dynamic specifically in reference to how it could reflect on their current selves because you might just end up hurting yourself like I have. GOD I HATE THEM

#okay so I have so much more to say about df/yx but i wanted to take the tags to talk about rh #i want to make a separate post about them as well mostly bc of smth ill rant about here #the arguing between rh antis vs rh shippers has devolved into such a lack of nuance from both sides that its HURTING MY BRAIN #rh anti: ‘Blade HATES Dan Heng’#yeah he does #but also its not a shallow kind of hatred #it’s a multilayer complicated hatred built on past feelings of regret betrayal and fundamentally a past love from yingxing #that is what the hatred we see (mostly amplified outwardly by the mara) is all built upon that is PART of the appeal its tragedy its doomed #it’s a loss of what was and how that influences its own unique dynamic different from df & yx #rh anti: ‘DH hates Blade’ also true but again #its become a complicated kind of dislike mixed with the shock and realization of who Blade USED to be and past memories coming back #additionally there’s a little something called character and relationship development where dynamics and characters change over the story…#rh shipper: ‘You’re saying Blade hates DH lol are we reading the same game’ YES WE ARE #YES HE DOES #He does hate him yes its a complicated kind of hatred as I already said but that doesnt erase that he does hold resentment towards Dan Heng #did none of you?? read the relic lore??#if you believe that dan heng is destined to die with blade then you believe hes apart of that ‘final funeral to the unnamed’s life and #to everything he ever hated.’ …like guys why are we saying he doesnt hate him at all #it outright flies in the face of blade’s character to say he doesn’t hate him like HELLO? it’s just a complicated hatred #not nonexistent and like seriously the hatred again adds to the appeal of their dynamic #their tragedy lies in how their past forms were once close and through a shared sin plus some stuff to inspire Blade’s vengeance that #that relationship has been completely destroyed beyond repair under the weight of their sin #love replaced with an eternal hatred and remorse a betrayal grave enough to spark such violent revenge #is what makes rh appealing! makes their dynamic interesting and that dynamic developing further as threads of their past still linger but #alas arent the same as before fundamentally changed and unique to them again MAKES IT INTERESTING AND TRAGIC!! esp knowing blade will die #yingxing #dan feng #xingyue #renheng #honkai star rail

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