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tobiasdrake · 25 days

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Do you have any thoughts on the Red ribbon army?

The RRA will left a mark on the history of Dragon Ball and will forever be a cornerstone of this entire series.

The Red Ribbon Army serves the purpose of bridging the gap between the silly and lighthearted antics of the first two arcs and the gradually more serious fare to come.

They offer Goku some interesting and creative challenges to overcome, while rarely being too threatening. For the most part, Goku bulldozes through everything they have to offer.

Hey, remember that time Goku sodomized a ninja? Good times.

But this goofy fare is juxtaposed against the real, serious menace of what the RRA is doing to the people around them.

Despite the ease with which Goku handles most problems that come his way, this feels tonally different from the first arc. There, the villains were local problems like a mountain on fire or a rabbit gangster. The closest thing to a serious villain was Pilaf of all people, and he just showed up with his Empire of Two Minions at the very end; Less a serious villain and more the last of the local problems.

Now Goku's fighting a geopolitical entity whose tendrils reach out across the world. The scope of this conflict isn't about what they can do to Goku. It's about what they are doing to other people.

These guys suck. Like. Professionally.

Also if you know who that child at knifepoint is then you know exactly how bad this is about to go for General Blue.

Hey, remember that time when Arale from Dr. Slump showed up for some reason to headbutt a Nazi in the balls with planet-splitting force? Good times.

I cannot stress enough that the Dr. Slump crossover is not anime filler. I just. I cannot stress that enough. This is an actual thing that happened in manga canon.

The RRA rarely pushes Goku, but that's not to say they're completely harmless either. General White gets a good shot in on Goku with his hyper-gun.

We've already seen that Goku isn't completely bulletproof; He takes some damage from getting shot with a gun.

So it's not clear how much stronger the hyper-gun is than a regular gun. Obviously not enough to penetrate Goku's skull. But I digress. Meanwhile, General Blue's paralyzing stare gives him an edge, since even he can't take Goku in a straight fight.

As an aside, I love how he menacingly approaches Goku while giggling and grasping the rock he was about to crush Krillin's skull with a moment ago. With the implication that he's going to bash Goku's skull with it instead.

But at the start of next chapter, the rock is nowhere to be seen.

So. I guess he had no malicious plans for that rock. He was just holding it and giggling for funsies. He's a rock fondler. We all have our quirks.

Now is probably a good time to mention that the anime added a scene to the Dr. Slump crossover in which General Blue is revealed to be a pedophile. That's it. That's the whole scene. He just stops off momentarily to hit on a little boy. That was something they felt the arc needed.

This does not mix well with Blue's shameless gay-coding in both the manga and anime alike.

So. Yeah. This was already weird and then Toei was like, "He should also be a pedophile. That's a good thing to spend our screentime on."

Thanks. I hate it.

Anyways.

This arc has been milked to death by future Dragon Ball material, and for good reason. The myriad adventures along each sub-arc of RRA has enough things going on that it's easy to hone in on any individual thing and make a story out of it.

This one guy who showed up during the General White portion inspired the entire Cell arc.

The whole-ass characters of Tenshinhan and Chiaotzu spun out of the legendary assassin Taopaipai.

(Who, and I cannot stress this enough, is holding a 20 Years of Assassination half-off sale. Oh my god. Hahahahahaha.)

The Saiyans weren't even a thought in Toriyama's head at the time he wrote this. But the way Goku steamrolls through Red Ribbon is incredible the second time through, with the added context of his heritage.

Later arcs are going to tell us that Goku is from a race of planet-killers, the greatest warriors in the universe, who shatter armies and planetary defenses, slaughtering entire worlds. And you can feel every ounce of that Saiyan heritage on display as Goku rips through the RRA like a force of nature.

There are even still some hooks left hanging, that the series never revisited.

Colonel Violet and General Copper are still out there somewhere. This is all we ever hear from either of them - Though the anime adds a subplot where Violet loots the fucking vault after seeing which way the wind was blowing during Goku's assault. XD

So. Yeah. There's a lot going on in this arc and a lot for future arcs to draw from. Taopaipai himself has the distinguished honor of being the first Serious Threat villain despite his goofier antics like tonguing General Blue to death.

I like how he notes that if you're going to put a professional assassin through the "Kill this man and prove your mettle" test, you gotta pay for that. Even if it's a test of his ability, it's still a hit.

But at least they still got the half-price bargain for Blue's humiliating demise. This is the best time for the discerning shopper to consider adding a few extra murders to their shopping cart.

Taopaipai straddles the line between comical shenanigans and deathly serious threat. This moment is where Serious Dragon Ball is born.

Because again, that is the scope of this arc. Not what the RRA can do to Goku, but what they are doing to people.

Though, for the first time in history, Taopaipai is someone who can fuck up Goku pretty bad too.

We've seen Goku lose fights before but we'd never seen someone body him like this. At least, not without an excuse like a sucker punch or Goku being super hungry or a paralyzing stare or something.

This was a game-changer for Dragon Ball. For the first time, Goku got to go at an opponent with everything he had and got wrecked. Taopaipai took him down with a killshot he only survived because the Dodonpa struck a Dragon Ball he was carrying rather than impacting his flesh.

There's just. So much about this whole arc to gush about. Even Goku's friends get a piece of the action.

Well, most of them do. There is one notable exception who doesn't get the opportunity to show off and unleash his true power. The mightiest of all Goku's allies, and an underrated powerhouse waiting for his day in the sun.

Some day, Turtle. Some day they will all know your might and tremble.

So. Yeah. There's a lot to love here, and it caps off with one of the greatest shocking swerves in the history of Dragon Ball.

Ho. Ly. Shit. The comical pettiness of Commander Red mixed with the serious outrage from Adjutant Black here is such a phenomenal blend of Dragon Ball Goofy and Dragon Ball Serious. And. I. Feel it.

Much like Frieza being a critique of capitalism, the selfishness, lack of empathy, and pettiness of world leaders on display here is something I've only come to better understand as I've gotten older. Commander Red is a silly caricature of a man but he could easily be a real person that exists.

This is what soldiers are used for. All too often, they die for nothing but the selfish and petty whims of men like Red. Adjutant Black was out here Big Bossing it up like a decade before Metal Gear was a thing.

There's a reason why Dragon Ball keeps coming back to this arc. Whether it's the legacy of the RRA in Dr. Gero or DBS: Super Hero, redoing Goku's climb of Karin Tower like four times, or the PTO as a sort of galactic RRA, the Red Ribbon Army left a mark on Dragon Ball whose influence would continue to be felt long after the organization's fall.

They're a cornerstone of Dragon Ball history that will never be forgotten.

#dragon ball #red ribbon army

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meganechan05 · 15 days

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About the KingOh VS movies

(Spoiler-Free btw)

Both felt like pretty rushed projects whether it's production-wise or story-wise. If they were each given a longer runtime and were separate releases than a double-feature release, I might've enjoyed it more. Especially for DonBros.

To be fair, I couldn't get into DonBros. I get why people like it, but not for me. I'm not sure if that was what made me think so harshly of KOvDB or the fact I prefer story-driven than just pure fun/chaos or even the fact that vDonBros wasn't even on the table until they decided to continue the tradition, but I couldn't enjoy that part of the movie as much.

I think I needed more character interactions or something out of it or at least actual stakes rather than "Oh, this happened but it's not important when it should be. Problem solved. Let's head home. Were we arguing 10 minutes ago? No, we weren't. We don't need to apologize to each other for that. Don't worry about it." I did laugh a lot from the ridiculousness of it all, but watching it makes me question the entire point of the movie being made.

The only KingOh thing about it was really just the characters being comedic versions of themselves and the locations. It felt more like they just threw the Kings into an extra DonBros episode than a crossover movie. Then again, the cast did say it was a very Inoue script done by TakaMina so I guess that's why it was more DonBros than KingOh.

Vs Kyoryu should've been longer and should've explored more of the Kings of the Alternate Timeline. I know the biggest obstacle was cast availability so I can forgive the lack of character interactions with Kyoryu a bit. Just a bit.

Though my biggest issue would be how time-travel worked in the movie. It felt more like a multiversal movie trying to be a time-travel movie. The writer had the right idea, but I think it should've been thought through more.

I think if the two movies were handled better and were completely separate, I wouldn't have so many issues with how they were handled.

The only saving grace would be Jerachi and Alt!Rita. Although I have even more anger towards Toei and Columbia Records now because it just proved how we were all just fucking robbed of a proper Rita song.

GIVE THEM A PROPER SONG THAT FITS HIRAKAWA YUZUKI'S VOCAL RANGE AND RITA'S PERSONALITY, SHUGOD-FCKING-DAMMIT!

#WE WERE ROBBED OF PROPER RITA SOLO #FCK YOU TOEI #kingohger #king ohger #ohsama sentai kingohger #kingohger spoilers #kingoh spoilers #kingoh v donbros #kingoh v kyoryuger #donbrothers #kyoryuger #it feels like a step down from the writing for the series tbh

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duhragonball · 6 months

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🕎Kamehame-Hanukkah (5/8)🕎

It's Hanukkah, and that means Antiochus IV Epiphanes can go fuck himself, and it also means we're gonna talk about another Kamehameha from that popular anime, One Piece.

Wait, whaaaaa? The Kamehameha is from Dragon Ball, not One Piece! What in the wide world of sports is a-goin' on here? Patience, gentle reader. Allow me to explain....

In 2013, Toei produced a three-way crossover featuring two of its most popular anime franchises: One-Piece and Dragon Ball. Also Dream 9 Toriko was involved. If you're not familiar with that one, don't worry. You're not alone.

I watched it earlier this year as part of the 2023 Dragon Ball Apocrypha Liveblog, and it's not very good. The story was presented as Episode 99 of Toriko and Episode 590 of One Piece, so I don't know if the problem lay with the quality of those anime series in general, or if the special itself was just too unwieldy for its own good. There's like 900 characters in the thing and very few of them actually get to look cool.

Anyway, the plot involves characters from all three franchises teaming up to hunt down some sort of life-force-stealing monster fish. I think the idea here was to have a sea creature, which is typical for One Piece's pirate cast, but also the creature is delicious when properly cooked, which ties into Toriko's action gourmet bit. And they needed somebody to kick the thing's ass, which is where our pal Goku comes in.

The fish turns out to be insanely powerful, and when Goku resorts to a Spirit Bomb, it just gets stuck in the monster's mouth. So he has to push it harder, kind of like when he turned Super Saiyan to finish deploying the Spirit Bomb against Kid Buu.

So while the B-listers keep it busy, Goku charges up a Kamehameha and turns Super Saiyan 3 at the same time. I've only ever seen one episode of One Piece, but I can promise you this is the best one. Unless Cell guest-stars in another episode. That'd be pretty cool.

Goku lets it rip and this forces the Spirit Bomb down the monster's gullet, and it detonates the bomb and... doesn't destroy the creature. Instead it just expands violently and all the energy blasts out of its mouth.

Which is... pretty wild when you think about it. The monster's dead, no worries there, but usually when Goku kills a guy they get totally vaporized. This is just a contrivance, of course, since the payoff to this battle is that all the good guys are going to eat this monster fish for dinner. Obviously, they can't eat it without a body, so there we are.

Still, that makes this thing one of the most durable enemies Goku has ever fought. And while this crossover was disappointing as a whole, I can't help but appreciate the spectacle in the finale.

#dragon ball #goku #kamehamehanukkah #kamehameha #hanukkah

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the-tubort · 4 months

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10 for toku questions?

It depends on how well the plot of the movie blends with the show and also if the toy thats being featured ends up having relevance for the show as well.

Shinkengers summer movie is actually amazing and the show does a good job of bringing it back without ever feeling shoe horned in or obtrusive to the plot.

Abarangers summer movie actually goes fucking insane and the writers actually bringing it back for the climax was one of the craziest things to me.

Magirangers movie is just great overall even if we don't get to see Saint Kaiser afterwards. I would say more but I shan't spoil such a solid movie. Although I don't like the tradition that the sixth rangers get shafted during the movie so much...

I recently watched King Ohgers summer movie and it was pretty solid as well and not having to sell a toy along with it helped its pacing and story structure although I would not call it necessary as it only really tries to foreshadow stuff with arc 2 that gets discussed at length in the show.

Den-O's summer movie is also beautiful and made me cry like a baby and considering the show spent like 2 episodes to build up to it makes it feel important as well and IT ACTUALLY HAS CONSEQUENCES IN THE SHOW!!!

OOO also has such a wonderful summer movie and I really like BuraKaWani as a form and the final fight in that movie is SO SATISFYING to watch. Essential viewing for OOO.

Most crossover movies are also fun but the best ones also actually like. Need to have them crossover (looking at you Kamen Rider and also Donbrothers vs Zenkaiger) so any of the Go-Onger and Shinkenger crossover movies are peak and Gokaiger also sweeps on crossover films.

Post series stuff has been. Interesting. To say the least and honestly just ranges from "OH I liked that and im glad I got to see my guys again" to "This is the worst fucking thing ever how dare they ruin my shows like this"

Hurri 10th was pretty good along with Deka and Go-On 10th. Gokai 10th legally had to be good otherwise Toei Studios would've been burned down. Haven't seen Hurri 20th yet, but FUCK Aba 20th me and my homes HATE Aba 20th!!!! AND OOO 10th!!!!

#tuborts thoughts #super sentai #kamen rider

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mofffun · 10 months

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Kingohger 25 misc theories / reaction to Big Announcement

EDIT: Erica IG live confrimed Kingoh S2 is happening together with Gotchard i.e. ep27/Sept 3

wait a minute... they have not confirmed 27 would immediately be the time skip, but if so, God's fury is still unsolved. Takamina said he wrote 25 "as if" the series finale, but that does not contradict 30 being a chapter finale. but if time skip only happens in 31 it's a bit early?? why else would they need to announce it at the mid-way point?

Yeah no, "September" is 27. Yuzuki cut her hair ~1/8 which fits with the broadcast schedule.

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Racules is dead for 2 years????? He's not coming back the same day Yano-san host a baseball opening?

Then again, we never knew what Racules and Deathnarok discussed in their "negotiations" in ep16 🤔

but pessimistically what if 26 is Racules last appearance!? Yuzuki mentioned Yano-san is on set in the madigi trio interview, so that's, by the latest, late July. 🤔

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the latest TTFC extras call is for an original Sakamoto work. I didn't think it was KO because usually they are more specific with costume details. Now the "Big Announcement" is out is more for sure this is not kingohger-related. still praying for kagu spinpff ToT

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my first thought was, they simplified everyone's costume so it's easier to move around in ?? but that's not quite true. Himeno and Rita's skirts are, but Kagu is still in that getup and Gira heavier costume so ease for action is not the priority here.

Does "Space" means there'll be more on-location filming? Not that I'm against it of course, just that it doesn't make sense for Toei to spend the time and money they saved by using virtual production, and when the CG is a selling point of the show. For now, the door is open, the question is whether new planets would be shown in CG or kyu-style locations. I lean towards the former in consistence with the fantasy style of the show, but at least they left a backdoor for interacting with previous teams.

To think they'd travel planet-to-planet kyuranger style is probably not what's happening, it's more a general term for the second season phase's boss coming from space and being who caused the divide between humans and buganroks 2000 years ago.

But I'm so down for a kyuranger crossover though 🤣 if this is Sakamoto's new work...

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Costumes

I didn't notice Gira wearing Racules's clothes the forth, the fifth time. Gotta admit I was very distracted by his hair that makes him look even more like a local comedian XD I like his braids and was waiting for Taisei to cut his hair lol. conspriacy zenkai with that Racules charm being long hair too/jk

Blond Yanma needs some time getting used to. I couldn't be sure at the beginning of the week but I rationalize it as Aoto himself turning blond for a day or two, but that color is really saturate on Yanma haha. I think in general Aoto's hair look darker on-screen? oh wait... that's why his hair on 24/7 is brown instad of black... he's already bleaching it... anyway, 金髪ヤンマ総長めっちゃヤンキーぽい！looks older too. kinda want to throw an ikura-loving daughter with superpowers onto him haha.

Himeno-sama!! I love Himeno's look??! I LOOOOVE the new shoes! I love her dress. You can see her dress more clearly on Erica's twitter. The new dress compensated for where I felt v1 is under-designed/too Belle like. the construction looks like it can do better but it's unfair to say so from just one pic :p the poster ver. looks like a petticost is still included so maybe that was just an offshot. Hair: i wonder if it's Erica's own. It'd be less hot to wear a wig (circles back to location filming speculation). The colour matches and the volume sure is more tamed than before.

Ah. Rita-sama. what can i say. they barely changed. i mean toei wouldn't show us a proper angle of their face huh (or be grateful for their mercy because the fandom would collectively become the avatar foaming mouth guy - wait we already were with the ritamoru scene). i'll tell you what, my knees were on the floor and i was hammeraing it murmuring 'GENDER' at 10 in the morning when i saw they had the guts to cut Rita's hair AND SKIRT short. 💔RIP Rita's coat.

Then I asked if Rita's having a lighter oufit becaus they go out too much/don't stay in Gokkan as often anymore lol.

Kaguragi 😳 I said Kaku-san isn't my type but I appreciate him as a specimen. The long hair startled me. Just when I thought everyone is going in the 'simplified' direction he looks 'more'?, which, very Kaguragi style. He looks like a chinese period drama character!! He looks like the kings in MY history books??!?

Jera... I didn't noticed what happened with Jera before and frankly there's not much visible. He got short sleeves/more exposed forearm + sideswept hair. (and that bug arm glove is looks kinda bare upper the arm) I would be more curious if more of his age is showing…

If Gira is sticking with the crown is it the first sentai without a "red"...

#mon mon #ko25 #kingohger

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cross-zmagma · 2 years

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I couldn't make my usual Geats Post, College became a little more tough and needed to pay more attention if I wanna pass the rest of my classes (Already passed one, and there's 4 more to go)

But I'm making this post because this feels interesting to talk about, the Beat and Monster being Na-Go's and PunkJack's respective buckles despite not seeming to fit with their aesthetic, also the Geats X Revice Crossover movie because I can't wait to see this.

But that's the thing, they are their buckles not because they fit their aesthetic but because they fit the character in my opinion, instead of being the buckles that go well with their ID Cores (I don't know if they are actually the ones or not).

For example, Hareruya Win seems to be the typical dude who wants to become a rockstar , famous, a star, and that will be his thing, where he always tries to take protagonism and that would explain why he kept trying to attack on his own during PunkJack's first appearance because he wants to be the star of the show. Monster may not be the Buckle for PunkJack but the best buckle for Hareruya Win... Also this dude's name is amazing, who also thinks he's our next winner?

And finally, Na-Go the character who spend a lot of episodes either dancing or fighting with a Beat with Ace. And that's the thing, the Beat Buckle may not be Na-Go's best fit but it is probably the best for who Kurama Neon is as a character. I don't know, i just felt like that's where they were going, Now watch as Toei literally just never makes actual buckles for them in favor of a Gears or Tycoon power up or something.

Whatever, it just seemed like a cool detail that may be correct. Now the CrossOver Movies:

Also, The New CrossOver Movie Data has come out, Ryuki fans be Happy!!!

God, I can't wait to see this movie, they seem to be coming back to the Divide format, where the movie is actually like 2 movies, one for the previous Rider and a second half for the new one, and in the end both sides somehow get involved with each other. God I loved this format because it allowed to show some of the future of the Characters, like with Fourze, Wizard, Gaim when they finally became veteran Riders, I still think that this way of storytelling is so good because it allows you to focus more on both sides before clashing a lot of characters that may not fit with one another. Also I hope we get Sakura-Hana-Neon moments.

Also Ryuki is gonna be there which is cool because of the way they are using the battle royale aspect of Geats to bring back the OG Rider Battle royale of the franchise. Ryuki, Knight and Ouja suit are confirmed, and I think Ryuga too but I'm not sure. This movie is literally telling me I need to watch Ryuki. God, i can't wait for this to come out.

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asknarashikari · 2 years

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I just finished the Senki Block which includes:

1)Saber Special Chapter:OT4 vibes this ep were great, quite large.

Then there's whatever the hell was happenning beteeen Touma and Zox.

My favorite bit:

"Have you gone insane?"

"Yes, we have"

Also Orihime!Touma x Hikoboshi!Kento.

2)Zenkaiger episode 20:the Shindais really mesh better with the Zenkaiger cast.

They work better as the Comically Serious rather than whatever the hell sorta roll they had in Saber since Ryoga's introduction.

Reika/Magine FTW.

3)SUPER HEROOOOOOOO SENNKIIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!!:It was a much better watch this time, because I downloaded it rather than watching on Kissasian, where it was uploaded with the audio of the aid for the blind version.

I did not enjoy that it ignored the Special Chapter and Zenkai Ep 20, acting like the Riders didn't meet Zox and the Shindais didn't meet the Zenkaigers.

Kento should have worked alongside Red Racer in the Final battle, to show he did interact with the Carrangers when he was sucked into their book.

Sayonara, Onodera Shotaro-Sensei.

May the Riders always look to you for Guidance.

It was good to see the Zenkaigers again.

I've missed them, so even if this was something from the past that I've already seen for them, it was nice.

I'll only see them next in DonBrothers VS Zenkaiger.

4)Kamen Rider Revice:The Movie(prologue):not a bad watch.

It helped me Believe that I would enjoy Revice once I'm done with Saber.

Now, Onward to the last 9 episodes of Saber!

1- Special Chapter was a hoot from start to finish. The shenanigans was sublime XD It was also some much needed comedy right before shit went down in the Saber main plot.

Also, Rintaro being Kento's inflatable cow...

KenTouma was probably the best part of the episode... or was it ShuichiRyo? Sometimes I can't tell anymore. One of them posted a video on Tiktok where they were in costume but not on set, and they were... uh, very affectionate.

There were also these videos on Toei's YT for the tie-in with Superhero Senki where the Saber cast were competing against each other in a laser tag-type game. Ryo Aoki captained one of the teams and when he named Shuichiro for his first pick, Shuichiro squealed and ran at him to glomp him. It was wonderfully gay of them.

2- Yeah, the Shindai sibs were definitely way better in the Zenkaiger crossover in their own show. Ken Shonozaki clearly had a lot fun playing off of the Zenkai cast's shenanigans, and Angela Mei's enthusiasm for Magine was self-evident.

3- Well, the Special Chapter and the Zenkaiger episode were always meant to be their own thing, not really tying into Senki. Most of the Spring crossover specials, back when they were a thing, were like that too- none of them really tied in to the Taisen films.

Yeah, it was a little disappointing that they didn't show what happened to Kento after he got sucked into the Carranger book... though that already had some other stories mixed in as well- Drive and Black, iirc. I'd like to think he was actually in that other world where he, Luna and Touma all grew up together, and where his dad was alive- which would explain his resistance to Touma returning things to the "normal" world. (Also, Ryo was so damned handsome in that sequence... I was simping the whole time)

Tbf, it also wasn't shown what happened to the other Zenkaigers aside from Kaito after they disappeared either. And Zox just shows up out of nowhere, lmao.

Honestly them including Ishinomori-senshu in this movie was kind of a brilliant move, and seeing his interactions with Touma and Hongou-san made me cry a little, ngl.

Also. Saber roll call scene. Fuck me, why don't they do this in Rider more often. It was amazing.

4- I didn't actually watch the Revice short movie, but from what I gathered it's not canon to the show because it and the first episode contradict each other in terms of how Ikki got his powers.

#kamen rider saber #kikai sentai zenkaiger #superhero senki #kamen rider revice #ask #pkmurasaki

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shihalyfie · 3 years

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"Canon” and “not canon” in the Adventure/02 universe

This is something I want to talk about, because it has a certain degree of relevance to the question of what I choose to take into account in my analyses and what I don’t. I write a lot about Adventure and 02 because both series are ridiculously consistent over their 104-episode runtime, but there are times when things contradict or don’t quite track together, and I have to figure out how to best rationalize them -- which means I need to make arbitrary decisions on what to count and not count, and when one does make those kinds of decisions, you’re very liable to get the complaint: “but that’s not canon!”

Which always makes me think: who decided that? And in the end, this is something that I think extends beyond just Digimon; every fanbase for everything always wants to believe there’s a clear-cut answer to things that everyone’s supposed to follow in a canonical timeline, and things that fall outside it. And sometimes, for some franchises, that is doable, because official staff will actually say outright that “this counts, and this doesn’t.” But that’s not how Toei and Bandai work, and their modus operandi has always been to toss a bunch of often-contradictory stuff at everyone and go “figure it out yourself,” and I think at some point the fanbase really needs to acknowledge that this so-called clear-cut boundary of “canon” and “not canon” doesn’t actually exist at all. Or in other words, any assertion of something being “canon” or “not canon” in the Adventure and 02 universe is purely something arbitrarily defined by fans, and was never determined by official - which, conversely, has actually encouraged you to take as much as you want and figure out the rest yourself.

Before we begin, I do want to make clear that this is not about one’s personal canon based on one’s own preferences -- that is to say, if you’re going “I don’t consider this canon because I don’t like this/don’t want to work with this,” then that’s entirely your right, especially if you’re doing creative work and need to decide what to apply and to not to apply. (Although, as always, one must be conscientious and respectful of those who do like it and consider it canon, because everyone’s going to differ on this.) What I am talking about is when people take a substantial part of the franchise that they otherwise like, such as a movie or drama CD, see one detail that’s contradictory in terms of the timeline or lore, and take that as evidence of “yep, the entire thing’s not canon. We’ll just throw the entire thing out, then.” It just makes me think -- you threw out a perfectly good work for that?! That’s such a waste!

First of all, Toei and Bandai don’t work that way

In general, a lot of the contradictions in the series have a “right hand is not talking to left hand” problem, because as much as we would like to believe that a Digimon series is written by a single consistent entity, the franchise itself is a huge trade-off between Toei and Bandai, and a lot of things from Bandai -- spinoffs, crossover material, games, what have you -- don’t exactly have a stellar track record of being vetted by Toei anime staff. It’s pretty well-known that game portrayals of certain characters can be really off or have misleading info, and even V-Tamer’s somewhat guilty of it. So this is going to happen no matter whether you like it or not, and it happens with any long-running kids’ series that involves a collaboration between multiple companies like this.

Moreover, the traditional custom for Toei “side movies” (in this case, meaning things like the original movie, Our War Game!, Hurricane Touchdown, and Diablomon Strikes Back) is that they’re produced with minimal involvement from the original series’s core staff -- at most, the producer is lightly involved -- and are sometimes even worked on simultaneously with the start of the original series, so you often end up with a movie that’s impossible to fit anywhere in the series timeline because there wasn’t any communication with the two sides. And for that, it’s all too easy to dismiss those movies as “non-canon”, with the fanbase arbitrarily deciding that canon ones are canon because they fit -- but Toei itself has never taken this stance.

The other thing is that, given that Adventure/02 is famous for its ridiculous level of worldbuilding consistency thanks to its director Kakudou’s conscientious efforts on it, it means that as a result, anything not made by him was prone to running afoul on it, and it’s not like the stance back then was to just reject all of it wholesale. “Doesn’t comply with the lore” is so often equated with “not canon”, but Kakudou, the author of that lore, not only made no indication of invalidating or disliking those non-compliant things, but also conversely made an active effort to make those things relevant in spite of that! (See: Our War Game! below.) The official stance is to not deny those works for being noncompliant -- it’s just that Kakudou seems to be the detail-oriented kind of person who personally prefers to work with things that have a high level of consistency (he’s very quick to say “I wasn’t involved on that” whenever someone brings up something from said external materials, not in any condescending way, just “I wasn’t involved, so don’t attribute that to me”). In fact, one of the reasons there wasn’t initially a third Adventure series was that he had difficulty finding a way to adhere to the higher-ups’ pressure to keep all of these contradictions consistent -- so the official stance itself is to try and maintain all of those side works, and that it would be better to end the series itself than to have to do something like deny them.

Which makes things very frustrating for the fans, of course, but nevertheless, that’s how it is -- even back in 2000, the right-hand-not-talking-to-left-hand phenomenon was this significant! And it would have been easy for official to step in and go “okay, we’ll put a statement out here that these don’t apply,” but no, the stance was be that it would be better to stop dragging it out longer and cancel a whole series than to deny those works, which leads us to the current situation. (Plus, think how insulting it would feel from a PR perspective if someone got attached to one of those “non-canon” materials only for official to come out and outright say “yeah this doesn’t count anymore”; we can name examples of this happening in other franchises that have understandably gotten a lot of people upset, and it would be especially offensive to do this right after said material had been released.)

Bolstering the concept of official staff’s very loose opinion of “canon” are the Adventure novels, which were supervised by Kakudou himself and written by Digimon episode screenwriter Masaki Hiro, and are non-compliant with Adventure timeline by design, because it’d be bad for the format to try and depict every single detail in the anime in the form of three novels. Several events are condensed or shuffled out of order, or even sometimes completely different (Koushirou’s incident with Vadermon goes very differently from the anime version). Despite that, this is said directly to be intended as a series of novels to help people understand Adventure and 02 better, and several details in Two-and-a-Half Year Break and Spring 2003 are incredibly consistent with it (namely in the sense of details meant to retroactively connect Adventure to 02, and other background details like Daisuke’s backstory). So you are supposed to do some kind of mental leap where you don’t take the contradictions around the actual events too seriously, but still accept the spirit and the background information you learn from it and retroactively apply it to Adventure and 02 -- and, presumably, that’s probably what you’re expected to do with everything else, too.

And this isn’t even getting into the fact that the anime itself has occasional contradictions and errors due to things like animator error or simply different writers writing different episodes -- the Adventure and 02 staff were certainly very detail-oriented, but they are human and of course inevitably slipped up here and there. How seriously do you take honorifics shifting from episode to episode in ways that don’t seem intentional, or the fact every background material refers to Osamu and Ken having a bunk bed and yet the actual episode with both of them fails to depict it? How do you deal with the fact that the Animation Chronicle is one of the most extensively useful post-02 reference materials with tons of production background info not revealed in the anime, and yet is infamously full of suspected typos that would cause some pretty massive implications if true, or all of those other Bandai and Shueisha-commissioned “side books” and other pieces of media meant to entertain the kids while the series was airing but clearly had no input from Toei staff whatsoever?

In the end, frustrating as it is, the answer seems to be the same as ever: figure it out yourself.

The standards for what’s “canon” and “not canon” are way too arbitrary

Let’s look at a handful of things that have been historically dismissed as “non-canon” by the fanbase:

The Adventure mini dramas and Armor Evolution to the Unknown: Drama CDs that were generally dismissed as non-canon because they’re “too crack” to be canon (their writing style is of the “it’s okay to push the boundaries of characterization for the sake of comedy” sort, and it wouldn’t be until later when we finally got some more serious drama CDs). The latter is full of honorific inconsistencies, most prominently Daisuke and Ken still being on surname basis at a time they’re not supposed to be (due to the fact that it was released while the series was still being produced). But official word is that you’re still supposed to consider them canon -- and yes, that’s Kakudou himself giving official sanction to a drama CD that involved a massive amount of fourth wall breaking and a completely unexplained reunion between the Adventure kids and their Digimon sometime between 1999 and 2002 (apparently this wasn’t the only one, either). How is this supposed to work? Figure it out yourself.

Hurricane Touchdown: The funny part is that up until Kizuna validated Wallace’s existence, there was no actual consistent agreement on why this movie shouldn’t be canon (the Western side being “evolutionary form timeline violations”, the Japanese side being Wallace’s status as a Chosen Child prior to 1995), which really goes to show you how arbitrary all of this is. It also has a sequel drama CD in the form of The Door to Summer, which is also contradictory with Hurricane Touchdown’s ending, so we’ve got two layers of “it can’t be canon because...” -- and yet it has a lot of interesting Daisuke characterization, and, heck, the whole character of Wallace himself, that would all be rejected if you throw this out wholesale. Then Kizuna came along, and there’s a general sense of hesitation against easily denying officially-sanctioned “main” entries like that, which retroactively forced people to somehow skip past all that and accept it, just for the sake of Kizuna’s notability.

Diablomon Strikes Back: Similar to the above, it used to be constantly dismissed as “a non-canon fun movie” because of the evolutionary forms that appear in it, despite the fact that 02 itself established that it wasn’t that hard to restore evolutionary forms if you figured something out. Somehow, a ton of people treated it as such an impossibility that “they figured it out in the first three months of 2003″ would be a viable explanation, and yet official word is that of the second through fourth movies, this is the one that had the most amount of initial consultation with the TV anime staff! And then tri. and Kizuna came along and clearly had high-level evolutions in play too, and dismissing DSB on these grounds meant dismissing those by proxy, and a lot of people were too intimidated to do that and decided to retroactively validate DSB instead, after years of having dismissed it for this reason. Again: look how arbitrary this all is.

The tri. stage play: Mainly because its timeline of events doesn’t fit tri. at all (in regards to the reboot and part 5). This is a fair assessment to make in light of the fact that it doesn’t seem to work very hard to be compliant with the very series it’s branded with, but, funnily enough, it’s actually more lore-compliant with the original Adventure and 02 than the tri. anime series is, and yet the few minor contradictions it makes with the tri. anime series are sufficient to consider it completely kicked out of canon, yet those same people who declare it so aren’t as willing to hold the anime to that same standard just because it holds a more prominent “main” position.

On the other hand, let’s look at some of the things that have been more likely to be accepted than the above:

Our War Game!: Reading this is probably going to make everyone go “whaaaaaat?”, but yep: according to Kakudou, the second through fourth movies were all made without his supervision or involvement and thus have lore contradictions (although he also made sure to say that they’re very fine movies, too). We still haven’t figured out what the lore contradiction is, and so the fanbase considers it canon, and even 02 itself makes multiple references to “the Diablomon incident” in 2000, so you can’t consider this non-canon in the slightest...but yes, according to the official side, it’s actually got a contradictory incursion somewhere in there. There is one hypothesis as to what it is, and it’s such a minor thing that no fan or even official member of staff would dare deny the movie for it, but it still contributes to how arbitrary this entire concept is: Kakudou didn’t want to give anyone (except Miyako, who’s based off a real person) canonical birthdays or blood types for the sake of preventing horoscoping, but Sora’s birthday is portrayed as being around March in the movie. And yes, Kakudou himself refers to this as being something that only happened because he wasn’t involved. (Remember what I said about him historically being quick to disclaim involvement on anything he wasn’t involved on, regardless of how much of a minor detail it is, yet doesn’t necessarily intend to deny the work entirely due to it?)

Tag Tamers: A very vital part of Ken’s backstory that establishes a lot of context behind the Dark Seed and the elusive Akiyama Ryou, which also does not make sense with 02′s timeline and characterization at all, presumably because Bandai and Toei weren’t properly communicating on what kind of details they needed to iron out for this. But of course, all of us would like some explanation to Ken’s backstory, and we have to apply some kind of logic as to how that makes sense, and I’ve yet to see people declare Tag Tamers (or any of the other WonderSwan games) as entirely non-canon as a result.

tri.: For obvious reasons, it’s a “major entry in the franchise”, so people are generally more averse to dismissing it so easily (or, at least, for reasons that aren’t related to pure preference), but I find it rather ironic that Kizuna’s the one that got all the attention for apparently being lore non-compliant, when the exact same lore points mentioned in Kakudou’s reasoning as to why it’s non-compliant (along with a ton of things that actually were in Adventure and 02′s text) are gone against even more regularly and prominently in tri., whereas Kizuna still goes out of its way to adhere to most of these and only seems to have incurred a contradiction in terms of originally intended ideology, and, possibly, its extensive use of the aforementioned movies. (Recall that this got brought up for Kizuna specifically because Kakudou was initially consulted for it; he wasn’t involved in tri. to begin with at all.) See above on how people’s unwillingness to write this one off so easily despite everything ended up retroactively dragging DSB into “accepted canon” territory; that’s how arbitrary this entire thing is.

Then, tied to all of this and making it even more confusing is Kizuna, which, again, putting all issues of personal preference aside, is basically being torn back and forth between all of these whenever you try to apply one of the above arbitrary standards. It’s allegedly lore-noncompliant with Kakudou’s lore and thus lacks his involvement, but it does have the involvement of original series producer Seki Hiromi who was known to be responsible for the series’s original human drama themes (including the premise of 02 itself) and personally vetted the scripts so that everyone could be properly in-character and the original themes still intact; it’s supposedly a “main” entry to the point where people will stop denying older works’ canonicity because of it (see Hurricane Touchdown above), but, legally speaking, is actually classified in the same “gekijouban” category that the first four movies and things like the Tamers through Savers movies are; the staff will say to hell and back that the 02 epilogue still holds (and the movie makes abundant retroactive references in both worldbuilding and themes to it), but many people out there will still insist that the movie ending that way means that (like with DSB above) “they figured it out” between the movie’s ending and the epilogue is apparently some kind of impossibility, and either the movie is non-canon or the 02 epilogue is invalidated now. (My personal stance on this is that the epilogue itself provides the answer to how they figure it out if you look closely at the movie’s themes, but that’s a tangent.)

The point I’m trying to make is that regardless of whatever stance you take on all of the above points, this is all extremely arbitrary, and these fanbase rationalizations on why this and that isn’t canon are constantly contradicting each other, shifting, and occasionally based on really meaningless things. And, again, it’s fine if you’re saying that you don’t consider this or that canon because you personally dislike it or where it went, or you find it difficult to work with, or between two contradictory things you prefer one or the other (I certainly have my fair share of strong opinions in this regard) -- but it would be better if we all admitted this and went “I just don’t consider this canon” instead of acting like there were ever some universal consensus or official backing.

"It didn’t happen this exact way, but something resembling it still happened”

So, we’re in this uncomfortable situation where we’ve been handed a ball of knots and have to work with it (a very frustrating situation especially for fanfic writers), and I have to personally say that I think all of this comes from people having far too inflexible of a concept of “canon” and “not canon”, especially to the point of rejecting a full-on perfectly fine entry just because of one timeline issue. I honestly think it’d be better if we could rather take a certain stance close to the Pixiv dictionary wiki’s view of how Wallace can appear in Kizuna: “(some version of) Wallace exists in the timeline of the main story.”

Right, so: Hurricane Touchdown is contradictory. The evolutions don’t work at that point in timeline, and Wallace shouldn’t be able to be a Chosen Child from before 1995. Those things don’t work with Adventure and 02′s timeline and lore. However, let’s look at the following story: let’s say that, between 02 episodes 14 and 15 (when the movie first screened), while school was on break, Daisuke and his friends went on a summer adventure to the US and met a boy named Wallace, who had a struggle regarding one of his partners losing his sanity, and bonded with him and helped put his partner to rest. No part of this contradicts 02 at all. There we go! So we can safely say that some story that mostly resembled Hurricane Touchdown happened in the canon timeline. Some of its details weren’t exactly the way they happened in “the movie we, as the audience, saw” -- but something that substantially resembled the movie still happened in the universe of Daisuke and his friends. And you can apply that same logic to Tag Tamers, or any other vital canonical but ostensibly contradictory material -- the media that we as the audience got may not accurately reflect the events in universe, but there’s absolutely nothing saying that some more timeline and lore-consistent alternate version didn’t happen in canon instead.

Moreover, even Adventure/02 itself gives you a bit of precedent for this concept -- namely, the fact that the final episode of 02 reveals that the entirety of Adventure and 02 is part of Takeru’s novels. It’s a pretty common theory that there might be differences in the way “the story we got” was presented, versus how they actually happened in the world Takeru lived in -- of course, Takeru certainly went out of his way to remove as much bias from the situation as he could, but you can hardly say that he, as a human, would be completely free from it, and he himself even admits that everyone he consulted had differing opinions on the events in question. And not every single piece of Digimon media has the Hirata-Hiroaki-as-Takeru narrator, which means that perhaps it’s not entirely out of the question that the different takes on the stories that the Tokyo Chosen Children went through in their youth would not be entirely consistent with each other, depending on who’s telling it. But that doesn’t mean that those events necessarily didn’t happen at all, just that some of the details were different from what we as the audience saw.

In the end, I leave the rest to everyone else to figure out -- as I said, I think this is a decision everyone will have to make for themselves, whether they’re a fanfic writer picking and choosing what to include for the sake of a coherent fic, or whether they’re just expressing a preference to not have to think too hard about or work with something they’re turned off by. (And in the case that there is someone who expresses their dislike of working with something and doesn’t want to consider it canon, I think it’s very rude to give them grief for that, and conversely, if you don’t want to consider something canon but encounter someone who doesn’t have as much of a problem with it, it’s very rude to try and expect them to change their opinion to yours.) But I do think it would do well for all of us to have a bit more of an open mind and a creative attitude towards these kinds of things before trying to shove everything into a “fully canon” and “fully not canon” binary.

#digimon #digimon adventure #digimon adventure 02 #shihameta #kizuna spoilers

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firebirdsdaughter · 7 years

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New possible pastime...

... Rewatching the finale of OOO without sobbing my eyes out because the Heisei FINAL movie has confirmed Ankh’s restoration at long last.

The gods heard my prayers. And maybe my fanfiction. ^^

#Kamen Rider OOO #my precious angry bird son #i thank you for this toei #even if you do fuck up a bunch of otherstuff #i'm even willing to mostly forgive you for shoehorning Parad into Hiiro's spot in the crossover #but only mostly #still salty about that #also can we talk about how you treat Poppy...?#but the point of this post is that now i don't need to be guzzling tea to watch the end of OOO again #now i can smile

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cina-full-moon-xanadium · 3 years

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toei with its literal unmatched billions of yen budget: we can’t make a new suit for our 50th anniversary crossover form or our final boss! do you think money grows on trees?! we needed that to advertise saber dragon eagle pig

tsupro who can only do half a show a year: yeah what’s that you want a Dynazenon suit? like exclusively for publicity appearances and maybe a budget DVD special? yeah why the fuck not gimme 5 minutes

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bunnymajo · 2 years

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For MagiReco asks: 16, 23, & 24?

16. If you could change one thing about Magia Record, what would it be?

Less revealing clothing on the underage characters. like mid-drifts & short skirts are one thing - like I think that would be something a teen girl would want to wear and feel cool in - but boob windows and bikini bottoms in public is pushing the envelope my dudes.

23. Are there any themes, aesthetics, or concepts you want a future character to be made around?

Ballet I think would be a good theme. Or just dance in general. We have a couple music themed girls, but dance not so much. (at least that I remember off the top of my head)

24. What would your dream crossover be? It can be any story– it doesn’t need to be in the magical girl genre.

Realistically: The Kirara Fantasia game so we can get some of those Aoki Ume characters as magical girls (the Hidamari Sketch girls look pretty cute in that iirc)

Wild Dream that Doesn't Make Any Sense and Sounds Blasphemous but would also be Really Funny: Toei's Old School majokko. I want to play as Sally & Akko in a ridiculous new outfit

#amainoyuki #magical girl chat #magia record

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narashikari · 3 years

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WHAT THE FUCK SABER X GHOST????!

spoilers (kinda) and a whole lot of screaming down in the cut below

I THOUGHT THIS WAS A FUN LITTLE ONE OFF CROSSOVER?

BUT IT’S TIED IN TO MAKOTO’S V-CINEMA

AND IT ENDED ON A CLIFFHANGER?!

WHAT IS GOING ON?? ARE WE GETTING MORE GHOST STUFF IN 2021??

I NEED ANSWERS TOEI

#kamen rider saber x kamen rider ghost #spoilers

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biomic · 3 years

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You know what would be cool? A crossover between the two space toku. Fourze x Kyuranger! Don't tell me Lucky and Gen wouldn't IMMEDIATELY hit it off.

toei needs to give the people what we want

#gogoszyszka #asks #kendrix morgan died for our sins #kamen rider for ts #super sentai for ts

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reversemoon255 · 3 years

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Healin' Good Precure

I finished another season of Precure; yeah! It's not that I didn't watch Hugtto or Twinkle, but I had issues with the sub groups I was following during both seasons, and fell off half-way through. Which sucks because I heard Twinkle ended up being really good. I do have all the episodes I haven't watched saved somewhere, but whether I'll get to them or not is up in the air as I'm really bad at binging shows.

But we're not here to talk about those seasons, we're here to talk about the latest season, which I quite enjoyed. It was definitely on the more mellow side of the spectrum, but it had a very well-rounded cast of both humans, faeries, and villains, which fits the more slice-of-life attitude the show rolled with. Is it my favorite? No, but I think it still had a lot of positive things going for it.

The Good: Let's start with the characters. Nodoka was a very chill pink, which is a nice change of pace. Pinks are usually very energetic and outgoing, and Nodoka still has those characteristics, but a much more laid-back personality. Her backstory is also very poignant for the series, and how it ends up tying into the plot was not unforeseeable, but still well executed. Chiyu is a standard cool blue with chinks in her armor, but like Nodoka is usually very laid back which helps her stand out amongst the crowd. Despite how generic she seems on paper, I can't really think of another blue that acts like Chiyu, which is a point in the positive. Hinata has the quirky yellow thing down flat. In terms of general personality, she acts more like a pink than Nodoka does. She's also two character tropes we haven't seen in Precure yet: Gyaru and Dumb. I don't mean anything bad by that, but Hinata definitely acts very anime-gyaru, which is very funny to me as I feel like Gyaru are typically not portrayed as role models. She's also not smart; and don't get me wrong, there are plenty of Precure that aren't geniuses, but Hinata actively tries and doesn't have the attention span to do it. It makes her far too relatable as someone who was not the biggest fan of school. Asumi was an interesting take on the fairy-turned-Precure idea, basically being a husk that has to experience emotions for the first time. She is also very mellow, making it 3-for-4. It's a very laid back team.

Rabirin, Pegitan, and Nyatoran are all very good faries. They can carry entire scenes and episodes on their own, and despite their cute appearances are able to do it with as much weight as a human character. Latte may also be my favorite fairy ever, as she's a non-talking dog, and just acts like a very smart dog. It's both adorable and hilarious. The Pathogerms are also pretty well done. They all have very standard personalities and drives, but there's nuances to how they act and do things. When we get to them evolving, each of them creates their own way of making more powerful Mega and Gigapathogerms. And the fact that none of them are redeemed is very different for Precure, but not unwelcome. They have their funny moments, but they were bad guys through and through.

I'll also say that the character development for this season was very different than what we normally see. Like, most of the time it's "I'm shy and want to be more outgoing," "I'm aiming for my dream job," or something along those lines. Here, other than maybe Pegitan, nobody really goes through that type of standard, measurable progression. Nodoka's big character moment is realizing she doesn't have to put herself at risk to help others if she doesn't want to. Chiyu's is realizing she can have multiple interests. And Hinata is just realizing she's ok as she is and doesn't need to try and change. None of them are bad revelations, it's just none of the characters really go through anything that fundamentally changes them as a person; they're all pretty much the same from start to finish. Which, they're all 14. It's not super weird.

The plot feels very in-style with what Toei's been doing for a bit now. It's very episodic. Not a ton of huge shake-ups, and those that we do get are resolved pretty quickly so people tuning in for the first time or skip episodes don't get lost. It's the type of show that feels formulated to attract new viewers, and I'm ok with it since everything was well written. I can't think of an episode I didn't think was at least decent, and there were a few gems sprinkled throughout. The one-off characters from all those episodes have very distinct personalities, and nothing ever felt too rushed.

One thing though; I get this is the doctor series, but I find it strange that they went with the usual Earth-Water-Sky motif, and not have any aspects of the animal partners be incorporated into the actual costume design. They didn't have to go all out, like in Kira Kira, but I don't think they even had a paw-print on anything but their weapons.

The Bad: So I mentioned one-off characters earlier, and one of my problems with this show is that it's filled with one-off characters. Other than the parents, there are no real reoccurring characters. No other friends they all hang out with. It's just the main cast most of the time. This isn't necessarily a bad thing as it allows more time for developing the characters you care about, but at the same time it makes the focus of the show very narrow, to the point that near the end of the series you can't help but think "Oh yeah, this takes place in more than a small town." And while I feel for the characters when they're going through something tough, there weren’t that many moments like that. There’s a lack of overall investment. Even near the finale, I never walked away from an episode begging for more. There were plenty of times where I'd just binge through a month's worth of episodes while doing other stuff. And, again, that's not a bad thing, but, even if I didn't finish it, I got that feeling of investment from Star Twinkle, from Kira Kira, from Maho. Maybe it's because the Precure themselves were seldom attacked? The only mess-with-your-character moment I can think of is when Nodoka get infected, and that was just because she stumbled onto Daruizen; he wasn't actively targeting her. It's more that the chill nature of the show has a double-edged nature to it. It's cute and fun and easy to watch, but you're not going to walk away with it changed in any way, like I was with Go! Princess.

And on the ending, it was very abrupt. I know a few episodes got cut, but that would have been known near the start of the series, and there was plenty of filler. As much as I complain about the time issues associated with the epilogues in accordance to new series and crossover movies, this felt like a season that could have used it. In fact, I think it's the first since Princess to not have one.

Overall, I'm fealin' good ‘bout Healin' Good. It's a nice, easy watch with some fun characters. It's just not very meaty, and I could have used a little more. I'm looking forward to Tropical Rouge. It's already starting out with some interesting premises, like having Summer copy the Zenkaiser color scheme, staying away from the typical colors, etc. Also, whenever I try and design a Precure season (because I get bored at work and do that sometimes) I always do an ocean theme in a seaside town. In fact, Coral is usually the name I give my pink. But enough about how my mind wanders; let's hope the next season is just as fun, but a bit more compelling than this season.

#Precure #Healin' Good Precure #Review #Finale #Pretty Cure #Glitter Force

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