#Sun and Moon Show theory | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

alexandraisyes · 5 months

Text

Eclipse Character Analysis (Sun and Moon Show)

Alternate Title: Why I'm 95% sure Eclipse is a sociopath EDITED TITLE: An Analysis of how Eclipse's ASPD is reflected in his character

A hopefully unnecessary disclaimer: - One, hi, hello I am a sociopath, I do know what I'm talking about. This also means that a lot of what I notice and will describe about Eclipse are similar or the same as my own experiences living life in this mortal realm. What I will touch on in the "redemption" section is heavily based on the kind of intensive treatment I had to get in order to improve my behavior when I was younger, so it's important to note that while Eclipse will never be able to change his personality (like how I can't change mine, and you can't change yours), he can change his thought patterns, mentality, and behavior. The saying that "sociopaths can't change" is specifically talking about how we can't change our personality, which is true for everyone. That doesn't mean we can't learn to function better in civilized society or be taught emotional awareness and morals. - Two, hi, hello this is just what I've noticed and does not mean it's canon unless Reed or Davis themselves come onto my Tumblr and go "Yes, this, this is what is correct", and even then, you're allowed to have your own opinions and views on these characters. I'm just theorizing here EDIT: Reed and Davis confirmed that Eclipse is indeed a sociopath a day after I posted this here, and a week after my initial post in their server that is basically this but slightly messier. - Three, hi, hello I'm also a psychology student so I also know what I'm talking about in that regard too. I've been studying psychology and general medicine for three and a half years now, so I like to think I have some idea of what I'm talking about - Four, I use the terms sociopath, ASPD, sociopathic disorder, and anti-social personality disorder interchangeably since they all describe the same personality disorder - Five, this analysis is long, I cover the basics, an in depth, some potential scenarios, a redemption arc possibility, and some other thoughts I have about him. - Six, I made this disclaimer to address any potential misunderstandings, or harmful stereotypes that I tend to be confronted with any time I talk about ASPD. Now onto the good stuff!

Too Long; Won't Read - Here's a Summary

Attachment and Pride: Eclipse initially cared about Lunar, and his reaction to Lunar leaving suggests a fragile pride. His inability to connect with others is evident in his strained relationships with KC and Bloodmoon.

Masking Emotions: Eclipse keeps his darker thoughts to himself at the beginning, and throughout the show as well. He masks both his emotions, and his intentions throughout the show, and is careful not to show when people have upset or offended him. This behavior stems from a learned experience that letting his guard down leads to resentment.

Manipulation and Brash Communication: Eclipse is straightforward and brash when expressing thoughts, feelings, or opinions. He employs manipulation when needed but is mostly disinterested in others.

Boredom and Stimulation: He seeks reactions from people, often causing chaos for entertainment. Boredom, especially when stuck as an AI, prompts him to instigate situations for amusement.

Lack of Empathy: He also appears to lack empathy, as evidenced by his inability to understand emotions and his focus on getting reactions rather than connecting with others.

Touch Aversion: Eclipse's lack of physical affection aligns with the common aversion to touch seen in individuals with ASPD.

Remorse and Growth: Eclipse shows remorse only in instances where he hurts Lunar in the beginning of the show, indicating a potential area for growth. A redemption arc could explore his struggles without completely erasing his apparent sociopathic nature.

Writer's note: A thoughtful portrayal of Eclipse's sociopathy, should my theory touch on the truth, if continued in a storyline, could provide an authentic exploration of mental health challenges and personal growth. Care should be taken to avoid stereotypes (DON'T USE GOOGLE FOR INFORMATION ABOUT THIS I BEG)

Putting Him Under a Microscope - Full Analysis

1. Attachment and Pride:

Eclipse's initial connection with Lunar suggests a potential attachment, a notable aspect in individuals with ASPD who can form (highly) selective bonds. However, Lunar's departure significantly impacts Eclipse's pride. This reaction aligns with the fragile self-esteem often observed in those with ASPD. The departure becomes a perceived personal betrayal, triggering Eclipse's defensive response.

In individuals with ASPD, relationships often serve specific purposes, and Eclipse's attachment to Lunar may have been driven by a combination of genuine connection but also very clearly the utility Lunar provided in fulfilling certain needs or desires. (Which was helping Eclipse get the star of course)

Moreover, Eclipse's struggle with connecting to others, evident in strained relationships with KC and Bloodmoon, is a characteristic of ASPD. Individuals with this disorder often face challenges in forming and maintaining meaningful relationships due to their limited capacity for empathy and understanding of emotional nuances.

2. Masking Emotions:

Eclipse's tendency to keep darker thoughts to himself reflects a common coping mechanism associated with ASPD. Individuals with this disorder often learn to conceal their true emotions early on due to negative experiences when expressing genuine feelings. This learned behavior serves as a protective measure against potential backlash or social rejection.

The fear of vulnerability and subsequent consequences aligns with the interpersonal difficulties faced by those with ASPD. Eclipse's decision to hide his less socially acceptable thoughts is a strategic choice aimed at avoiding conflict and maintaining control over his image.

Professionally, the concealment of darker thoughts is recognized as a defense mechanism in individuals with ASPD. This protective facade, or 'mask,' becomes an integral part of their social interactions, allowing them to navigate social situations with greater ease. However, this constant need to mask one's true feelings can contribute to internal struggles and further isolate individuals with ASPD from genuine emotional connections.

One may ask, what 'darker thoughts' did Eclipse show, or receive backlash for? Well, let's see, when he was stuck in Sun for the beginning of his life, he was first confused, a bit scared, and completely disoriented. He was forgotten, and during the first parts we can see him trying to reconnect with Moon, however, his delivery, as individuals with ASPD tend to do, was brash. It didn't sugar coat what he wanted, and considering his earlier transgressions previously, they weren't taken well in the slightest. Instead of Moon trying to genuinely talk and explain, all he provided Eclipse with was "I changed, and you didn't." and in general was very annoyed and irate with Eclipse. There were several times during the beginning of Eclipse, where there could have been progress made with him, to help him work through his issues, his internalized fear of being forgotten again, and the accidental neglect, that just… didn't happen. Because Sun and Moon saw him as a virus.

Moon because Moon saw himself as a virus, so what else would he think of something that originated in his code, and acted like he used to? Acted like he still sometimes did, parts of himself that he didn't like about himself, living and breathing once again in the mind of his brother. Corrupting him.

And of course, Sun because he was just so tired and hurt and he finally thought he could have something only for this ball of code to make itself known? This peice of his brother that was left behind, that was formed from Moon's killcode? That was constructed from Moon's literal need to lash out, hurt others, and kill. I'm honestly a little horrified that this is never touched on in the show, because people aren't just born to be awful, that's not how this works. There were so many opportunities where toxic and awful behavior could have been stopped if it was handled properly.

Of course, I'm not blaming Sun and Moon. It's hard to help someone who doesn't understand they need help, and as a result the person won't want help either. Plus, they've said it themselves in the episodes where Lunar had returned from the dead. They were never programmed to understand mental health issues, and they have a hard enough time grasping the concepts of their own mental health issues to deal with other peoples. Especially other people who are actively hurting them, it's hard to feel sympathy for someone who causes you harm as far as I'm aware. (I personally wouldn't know)

But back to my main point, there absolutely were times in the beginning where Eclipse was just honest about his wants and desires, and was shown disgust and hatred for it. Which would absolutely make him be prone to masking, which he does a lot in the show from what I can tell.

3. Manipulation and Brash Communication:

Eclipse's communication style, characterized by being brash and straightforward, aligns with the speech patterns and tendencies often associated with ASPD. When he's not trying to pull a fast one over someone, he's very blunt, and he doesn't beat around the bush. Individuals with this disorder may utilize manipulation as a means to achieve personal goals or navigate social situations, but without a reason to sugar coat, they won't. Although sometimes not sugar coating is also employed as a manipulation tactic, which makes it tricky navigating conversation at times with sociopaths. Eclipse's lack of hesitation in employing manipulation reflects the calculated nature of his interactions, as we see him smoothly switch between fronts, acts he puts on to get people to agree with him.

His disinterest in others, apart from exploiting them for personal gain, is consistent with the self-serving behaviors commonly observed in sociopaths. The use of manipulation as a tool for control and amusement is a manifestation of the disorder's impact on interpersonal dynamics. When he contacts Moon for help with Killcode, even then he has his own motives that are only helped by Moon being distracted with Killcode, as well as having KC out of the picture.

Professionally, manipulation is recognized as a prominent feature of ASPD. Individuals with this disorder may lack the ability to form genuine emotional connections and, instead, view relationships as transactional opportunities. Eclipse's interactions, particularly with Sun and Moon, exemplify this transactional approach, where he derives amusement from creating chaos. This last bit (amusment) is important, and I'll cover it next.

Before I pop on over, this is where I'd like to touch on Servant Eclipse. He is very crafty, and very manipulative, but it doesn't fool Lunar, who he clearly cares about to some degree. (Again, will say it as many times as needed, people with ASPD can care about people, it's just a lot of effort at first, doesn't come naturally, and is reserved for a select few). Lunar in this reality probably knows Eclipse inside and out, and isn't fooled by the not very convincing "I'm just a husk now" act Eclipse is playing out with. I suspect that Eclipse also is aware the Lunar isn't fooled, but it amuses him to some degree to keep up the game. I can only imagine serving a "Lord Lunar" is a fairly excitable life, and it's unlikely he's extensively bored. He's also just as brash as the OG Eclipse, and doesn't sugar coat the truth, or tries to ease Gregory into topics.

4. Boredom and Stimulation:

Eclipse's constant quest for stimulation and amusement, even at the expense of creating chaos, reflects a key characteristic of individuals with ASPD. Boredom intolerance is common in this population, leading to a perpetual need for excitement and novel experiences. (Can speak from experience, I spend about 4-6 hours every day bored out of my freaking mind and it's absolutely torture - which is why I draw so much)

The portrayal of Eclipse as being "bored out of his mind" when stuck as an AI in KC's base underscores the challenge individuals with ASPD face in mundane or monotonous situations. The need for stimulation is a driving force behind their impulsive and sometimes risky behaviors. There's a certain kind of restlessness, and impulsivity associated with ASPD, very much an act before you think, get defensive when confronted, and maybe think about it two days later on the very small chance it triggers a sense of morals/remorse. (Then probably forget it happened, cause we are very good at not caring enough to remember half the stuff we do. This isn't a choice, by the way, people with sociopathic disorder just aren't wired to feel strong emotions like guilt and shame.)

Professionally, this behavior aligns with the clinical understanding of ASPD. Individuals with the disorder often engage in sensation-seeking activities to counteract feelings of boredom and emotional emptiness. Eclipse's enjoyment in hacking Moon's computer, causing reactions from Moon and Lunar, serves as an outlet for his need for stimulation and disruption, as well as fulfills other purposes in starting a conversation with Moon about KC.

And of course, now I get to touch on my two favorite things that just drill this in. When OG Eclipse gets the star… what does he do? He torments Sun and Moon instead of wiping everything away, and I'm aware this is mostly because he doens't have mastery over the star. But what does Sun say, when Eclipse shows up to torment them on top of the play structure. Something along the lines of, You're just bored at this point? Is that it?

And what does Eclipse do? He leaves. Because Sun is absolutely right, and it probably stings his ego to have someone he so fully has convinced himself of hating to be right about him. Even before he gets the star… just how much effort did he really put into getting the star? Sure, he had this big plan, but I think he was aware that the 'perfect world' would never make him happy to start with; he just felt the need to be something larger than life, so of course you must set the largest goals to achieve in order to be that. He could have gotten the star so much faster lets be honest. I fully believe he was just having too much fun messing with Sun and Moon, because it gave a reaction, and the reactions to his actions were exciting, breaking his boredom. He was bored a lot, stuck in Sun's head, stuck in Sun's body and pretending to be Sun, stuck as an AI, stuck with Solar Flare's AI fighting him, stuck being unable to use the star…….. seeing a pattern yet?

And of course, my second favorite thing. Lord Eclipse. Moon full out calls him out on how bored Eclipse is, and Eclipse first tries to deny it, then sees no tactical advantage to denying it, and admits that yeah, he is bored. He's been bored for ages and Moon is the first exciting thing in what feels like forever. He's not happy in his perfect world, but he isn't going to change is because that would cut his pride for Sun and Moon to be right about what he wants and needs after so many years. So many years of his Moon being dead. Of having Sun as an obedient servant, bound to his beck and call. He's bored, and it shows, and he knows that it shows.

5. Lack of Empathy:

Eclipse's consistent inability to understand and empathize with the emotions of others aligns with a central feature of Antisocial Personality Disorder (ASPD). Individuals with ASPD often struggle with recognizing and comprehending the feelings of those around them.

His focus on getting reactions rather than forming genuine connections reflects the hallmark trait of lacking empathy. Eclipse's interactions with Sun, Moon, and Lunar highlight his detached and indifferent approach, as he manipulates situations purely for personal amusement without regard for the emotional impact on others.

Professionally, the deficit in empathy is a well-documented aspect of ASPD. Those with the disorder may comprehend others' situations on a cognitive level but struggle to grasp the emotional nuances involved. Eclipse's inability to understand why Lunar is upset and his constant pursuit of reactions underscore the emotional disconnect inherent in individuals with ASPD.

Eclipse's interactions with Lunar provide a poignant illustration of his consistent lack of empathy. Despite a seemingly genuine attachment to Lunar in the beginning, Eclipse's emotional disconnect becomes evident as Lunar leaves. The impact of Lunar's departure on Eclipse's pride and subsequent defensive reaction highlights the absence of genuine understanding of Lunar's emotions. Eclipse struggles to comprehend the significance of Lunar's departure beyond a perceived personal betrayal, showcasing a lack of empathy toward Lunar's perspective.

Moreover, Eclipse's manipulation and attempts to provoke reactions from Lunar, even after Lunar has left, underscore his disregard for the emotional toll on Lunar. This behavior aligns with the typical patterns seen in individuals with ASPD, where the pursuit of personal amusement takes precedence over the emotional well-being of others.

Eclipse's inability to process and acknowledge his own damaged ego resulting from Lunar's departure further emphasizes his lack of emothional understanding. He doesn't want to admit that Lunar hurt him, so instead he just continues to shut it down, bottle it up, and let it churn into hatred instead of looking at what he did wrong. His resentment and refusal to acknowledge the emotional impact on Lunar highlight the emotional blindness inherent in individuals with ASPD, especially in the context of complex interpersonal relationships.

6. Touch Aversion:

Eclipse's noticeable lack of physical affection, as both seen throughout the show, and mentioned when Lunar clings to Sun and states that Eclipse never showed him physical affection, aligns with a common trait among individuals with ASPD. Touch aversion is a characteristic feature, as those with the disorder often lack the intrinsic desire for physical closeness or intimacy.

Eclipse's minimal physical interaction, even in what could be perceived as emotionally charged moments, is consistent with the general pattern observed in individuals with ASPD. The absence of hugging or comforting gestures suggests a limited appreciation for the emotional needs of others.

Professionally, touch aversion is recognized as part of the interpersonal challenges associated with ASPD. Individuals with this disorder may not instinctively seek physical connection unless it serves a specific purpose, such as manipulation or personal gain. Eclipse's avoidance of physical affection adds a layer to his character, illustrating how his interpersonal behaviors align with the clinical understanding of ASPD.

This aspect of Eclipse's character contributes to a nuanced portrayal of the disorder, showcasing how the lack of tactile expression can impact the dynamics of his relationships, particularly in situations where emotional support is expected. (Like seriously, even Sun and Moon hug when one of them are having an awful day, but Eclipse? He literally doesn't seem to understand why Lunar craves positive physical touch so bad, because he just… doesn't feel the need himself. You can never fully understand something you experience, and it's not like people were explaining these basic needs and wants to Eclipse… ever.)

7. Remorse and Growth:

Eclipse's occasional display of remorse, particularly in instances where he has harmed Lunar, offers a glimpse into a facet of his character that deviates from the (BAD DOWNRIGHT AWFUL) stereotypical image associated with ASPD. While individuals with ASPD are often poorly and harmfully characterized/stereotyped by a complete lack of guilt or remorse, Eclipse's moments of internal conflict suggest a degree of emotional complexity.

Professionally, the intermittent remorse aligns with the recognition that individuals with ASPD may experience moments of internal conflict, especially in relationships that hold personal significance. Eclipse's struggle with whether to apologize after hitting Lunar reveals a brief internal debate, questioning the severity of his actions against Lunar's emotional response.

However, Eclipse's ultimate decision not to apologize, driven by his failure to perceive the significance of Lunar's distress, reinforces the inherent challenges in navigating emotional landscapes for those with ASPD. This internal conflict and eventual dismissal of remorse contribute to a more realistic portrayal of the disorder, highlighting the ongoing tension between impulsive actions and moments of potential introspection.

Should Eclipse undergo a redemption arc, these moments of internal conflict could serve as a foundation for growth, illustrating that while individuals with ASPD may grapple with moments of remorse, their ability to sustain lasting change remains a complex and challenging journey. Of course, I'm going to cover this as well.

Redemption and Recovery

Eclipse's potential redemption could be approached with an understanding that a complete overhaul of his personality is near impossible, because as psychology has shown, you don't just change your personality. However, nuanced growth and positive change within the framework of his behaviors and thought patterns can be explored.

Increased Self-Awareness: Eclipse could undergo a process of heightened self-awareness, acknowledging the impact of his actions on others. This could involve introspection into the motivations behind his behaviors and the consequences they entail. This won't be something he does on his own, he's going to need someone behind him, pushing him to be better. Preferably someone who has no majorly poor history with him for the best results.

Therapeutic Support: In a realistic redemption arc, Eclipse might engage in therapy tailored to individuals with ASPD. This could involve developing coping mechanisms, enhancing emotional intelligence, and learning healthier ways to navigate interpersonal relationships. Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) is a very affective type of therapy for people with personality disorders, or collections of disorders that combined provide the complications of a personality disorder.

Recognizing the Value of Relationships: Eclipse could gradually come to recognize the value of genuine connections beyond their utility. This may involve acknowledging the significance of relationships for emotional support and personal growth. This is going to be a process, and he will mess up. He will forget. It's something he will have to choose to work with in order for it to work, and even then he will make mistakes. It will be important to have patience with him, and instead of lashing out (cause that can cause a spiral back into poor behavior), working on these slip ups with him, and helping him relearn the significance of correcting it when he messes up.

Empathy Development: A full restoration of empathy is be unrealistic, Eclipse could work on developing cognitive empathy—understanding others' perspectives intellectually, even if not emotionally. This could improve his ability to navigate social situations more effectively. (This is what I do! <:happy_stim:867544047735275521>)

Establishing Boundaries: He should learn to set healthy boundaries in his relationships, understanding that manipulating and exploiting others for personal gain may provide short-term satisfaction but is detrimental in the long run.

Contributing Positively: As part of his redemption, he could find avenues to contribute positively to others' lives. This could involve utilizing his unique skills for constructive purposes, fostering a sense of accomplishment outside of manipulative endeavors.

Maintaining Accountability: Eclipse's growth would involve a commitment to being accountable for his actions. This includes acknowledging mistakes, making amends where possible, and actively working towards minimizing harm to others.

Embracing Personal Growth: Eclipse's redemption arc could focus on embracing personal growth within the constraints of his personality. It's about acknowledging that while he may not fundamentally change, he can adapt and evolve to lead a more balanced and fulfilling life.

Potential Future Scenario: Eclipse Apologizes

Brought to you by someone saying that Lunar would refuse Eclipse trying to apologize, but I respectfully disagree, and here's why.

I think that if Eclipse ever does apologize to Lunar, Lunar would have literally no choice but to accept, because we’ve seen early on that he does not apologize

To genuinely apologize and acknowledge his wrongdoing would be major character development that would take a lot of time and struggle to get to that point, based on my theories/analysis about him

So by the time he can actually, truthfully apologize, there would be evidence to prove his struggle with his own twisted nature, and probably how he failed at times during the journey, and had set backs and road bumps. The others would have most likely seen the effects and effort it takes to learn to change for him, and would most likely acknowledge that he’s being truthful.

If Lunar doesn’t accept at that point, if it ever got to that point, Lunar would be acting irrationally due to emotional complications, would probably just hurt Eclipse when he’s trying to be better for his brother, and would most likely set him back. There’s a very destructive pattern of thought when it comes to personality stuff (which is what I think Eclipse struggles with, a specific personality disorder I’m writing a comic thingy about), because you can’t change your personality. You can’t will yourself to be a certain way, and so it’s very easy to destroy progress people make on self improvement. So lunar refusing the apology would most likely not only hurt Eclipse’s pride (like it was hurt when Lunar left his side the first time) but would also further his belief of “why bother if they won’t accept the fact I’m trying for them” that he’d probably struggle with throughout a period of character growth.

Lunar’s smart, and pretty emotionally aware. He can be petty, but if Eclipse were to get to that point, I don’t think Lunar would refuse it because he would have already seen the struggle and effort Eclipse had put through just to get to that point

Logically, Solar would be the best person to help Eclipse, not Earth

This is partly copied/pasted from some conversations and does analyze Solar a bit as well

I really honestly doubt that Earth is going to be able to help him, if he comes back, and I’m suspecting that Solar would do a better job because he’s the only who can understand, properly, the absolute hell that was waking up inside of Sun’s mind with no idea what’s going on and how he got there. Earth can be sympathetic and show him pity, but that’s not going to help him very much at the end of the day. He doesn’t want sympathy, he doesn’t want pity because he has associated that with being weak and out of control. He needs some one who will understand him, and who will fully understand how one small thing changed so much due to the snow ball effect. Which Solar would understand. He’s “nice eclipse” after all, aka just an Eclipse without such bad formative trauma. So he never spiraled, but he’s just as blunt and analytical as Eclipse tends to be, and would be able to actually communicate with Eclipse about his issues since it’s a situation he could have easily been in had things gone slightly different

Solar is probably the only one who can understand, and I mean properly understand, Eclipse’s trauma and bottled up emotions. And I think that if they’re going to give Eclipse someone who will support him, they should do Solar. He’s got all boxes checked

The ability to fully understand Eclipse

No bad history with Eclipse that would really affect how Eclipse treats him (It’s not like Eclipse knows he built the satellite)

Similar base personality, his just wanted warped and twisted in the start, but if you strip away Eclipse’s issues, they’re practically the same person… for obvious reasons

The willingness to say what needs to be said, and not try to sugar coat. Earth would try to let Eclipse down easy about stuff, ease him into it, and he’s gonna see that as her being manipulative because that’s how he manipulates people. He needs someone who is just going to lay things out on the table

And of course, Solar most likely wouldn’t think Eclipse is too far gone to change. Because how do you think that of yourself? And they are the same person, just from different perspectives. It’s a similar dilemma I have to just writing off Eclipse, when I take him apart and see myself staring back at me. But I was able to improve, it just took work, and it took a situation dire enough to get me to realize that if I didn’t want to ruin the few things I cared about, I needed to get my crap together. And that’s probably what he’s gonna need to, something that threatens what he cares about to the point he realizes that this can’t go on. (And I’m suspecting that something will be control over his own life, just like it was for me.) We saw at the end of his life, that he was starting to self reflect and realize that he needs to change somehow, and this was because his control over his own life was being threatened I suspect.

Extra, Smaller Analysis on Solar and Eclipse

It is important to note that Solar doesn't have this issue (ASPD), and I believe it's because he didn't suffer the same beginning that Eclipse did. They resolved the Solar issue when he popped into existance very quickly from what we can tell, and so he wasn't left in the dark for months on end, left to stew in his own agony and emotions. Personality issues are caused by trauma, and specifically ASPD is directly tied to neglect during the most crucial formative stages in development. Sun and Moon had no idea Eclipse was there, and didn't mean to abandon him, because they didn't know he existed. But this complete, and utter abandoment, what is probably internalized as a personal betrayal because I can imagine Eclipse being destroyed by the idea that Moon left him behind on purpose. Which is just… not a good thought for my man to have, because that leads to feelings of worthlessness, and self-hatred for not being 'good enough' to keep/take care of/help. Which then just snowballs into other negative emotions, that gets him all worked up, and then he's fuming at the fact that they left him. That they decided he wasn't worth keeping around, and how dare they make that decision about him for him?!

You can see how it gets out of hand quickly, as he realizes the neglect he's suffering from, the abandonment he's facing, and the fact that he's now trapped. That Moon got to escape, but he can't and it's not fair. This is the perfect breeding ground for that funny little disorder called sociopathy, and boy, there's almost nothing at this point that can convince me that he doesn't have it because it's all just a little too perfect. And the worst part?

I really really doubt it was done on purpose, but holy heck it would be so cool if it was. Not just because of how beautifully crafted it is in his character, how it's so consistent and real, but also because if it was done on purpose, it would show that the writers took the time to do real research about a disorder that is so often done so poorly, and is commonly confused with a completely different issue (psychopathic disorder). Even knowing that it probably wasn't done on purpose, I'm still gonna just cling to him because I love him and I want him to get the happy ending he deserves. And I mean that genuinely, people who are suffering and lashing out because they're drowing in hate due to unfortunate circumstances that were really out of their control deserve to be given the tools to improve themselves and their lives, and it would be wonderful to see this sentiment reflected in the show.

Wrap-Up Ramble/Writer's Notes

This is, of course, my own personal observations, and it is definitely a lot to read. I had a lot of fun constructing this thread, because it is so rare to find a character that I feel I can properly connect to. I've struggled with a lot of the patterns Eclipse has shown in the show that I've called out, and I've had to go through the steps in the 'redemption arc' section myself. It's not an easy process, and as I mentioned, him realistically improving is going to be a process that is going to be draining on himself, and the people around him. He will have to wake up and choose to go against the walls he's thrown up around himself every single day if he's going to have a realistic redemption, and it's going to be exhausting. But I do genuinely believe that he can change, and improve, because I was able to change and improve as a person. It took time, years of intensive self examination and cognitive based therapy, and it required a strong support system. Which hopefully, if he comes back to the show, he can obtain, because otherwise he will continue to drown in his own bitter stew of resentment for others and himself. And that's no fun, that's just depressing.

A lot of people look at Eclipse and think the villain, but I just can't. His actions make him a bad person, but taking apart the psychology behind him, and seeing how glaringly similar a character is to you that is supposed to be the 'bad guy'… I want him to be able, if he comes back, to get the proper 'recovery arc' that he deserves, and I really hope that if they do try to save him from his own demons, they do it properly, instead of giving him a complete 180. Because you can't change your personality, and Davis and Reed seem to be aware of that with Moon. Even when old Moon tried to be better, he was still an awful person. And the 'new' Moon is still eerily similar to the old one, and as the time goes on, he just becomes more and more like the old one. Because it's the same AI, he just lost his memories. He didn't do a whole personality change because he got his memory card wiped, because he's the same person where it counts. He just has the benefit of not having all of the pain his past self was carrying. He's free of the hurt, and trauma, and self hatred old Moon carried, but he's still Moon.

So I'm really hoping that they continue to accurately display psychology in their characters if they bring Eclipse back, because it is such an immersive show due to the fact that it makes sense. These things make sense psychology wise, their behaviors, actions, patterns of thinking and speech. And I really am looking forward to seeing if they bring Eclipse back because he's such a beautifully constructed character.

You Made It

This is the end of my massive post. Congratulations if you made it this far. If you did, uh, the password is Dorito. Leave it in the comments/reblogs to let me know you made it, haha.

I'd love to see people's thoughts on this and on him, so feel free to leave your thoughts as well in comments/reblogs. I'll try to reply to every single one I see. Again, I love his character so much, it's so well crafted, and it was so fun to take this apart.

Edit: I have been asked about where to find the thread/join in on the convo, etc a few times: I have a thread in the SAMS server here if you want to join the conversation

#fnaf #fnaf au #sun and moon show #sunrise fnaf #moondrop #fnaf dca #daycare attendant au #earth and lunar show #eclipse sams #solar sams #lunar sams #character analysis #long post #sun and moon show theory #character theory

289 notes · View notes

rayofmisfortune · 5 months

Text

OH MY GOSH SUN LOOKS SO ADORABLE IN THE THUMBNAIL

Episode spoilers under cut + a small theory cuz brain go BRRRRR

Solar, Moon and Lunar geeking out about dragon mythology while Sun's just there screaming and panicking 😭 He's gonna hold such a grudge against everyone jfnfn

What kind of shape shifting magic did Solar use jfnfnf Did he just swap the bodies of another Sun with theirs? Because if so DAMN THE SUN FROM THE DRAGON DIMENSION MUST'VE BEEN CONFUSED EVEN MORE THAN OUR SUN FJJFJF That guy probably didn't even have any context and just suddenly BOOM turned into a robot jfnfnf

#sun and moon show #sun and moon show theory #ray's ramblings #tsams theory #tsams sun #tsams moon #tsams solar #tsams lunar #laes lunar #tsams #sams

81 notes · View notes

possumsarenice · 2 months

Text

WAIT GUYS I JUST REMEMBEREDED TO ASK THIS QUESTION

DID RUIN EVER FIX HIS KILL CODE???????

WE WERE SO WRAPPED UP OVER IF WAS ACTUALLY CURED OR NOT WE FORGOT TO ASK THAT

WHAT IF HE MADE ECLIPSE BECAUSE OF HIS KILL CODE????? WHAT IF HE EMBRACED HIS URGES???? WHAT IF IT FORMED A DIFFERENT AI (probably not but it is a very small possibility)

#sun and moon show #the sun and moon show #sams #tsams #sams spoilers #tsams spoilers #sams ruin #tsams ruin #sun and moon show ruin #the sun and moon show ruin #sams theory #tsams theory #sun and moon show theory #the sun and moon show theory

41 notes · View notes

joltyflare · 2 months

Text

(Sun and Moon Show Theory #2: Eclipse Will Bring Solar Back)

This is a pretty common and obvious theory by now, especially after today's lore in LAES. It seems like it's very clear this is the direction the shows (SAMS and LAES) are headed. But I still think it's worth posting!

I think Eclipse is working on bringing Solar back. I also believe he will succeed at being the one to bring him back rather than Moon.

His motives are now more obvious than ever: He wants to prove himself. Everyone is constantly berating him and calling him useless and whatnot and we know Eclipse has always had quite the ego. We also know he is intelligent...and regardless of what he thinks about his status as being a mere copy of himself, we know that he is aware that he is still intelligent and still has his pride. He especially wants to prove he is the more "dominant" one between himself and Moon (unable to accept that New Moon isn't the same Moon he had this rivalry with and that he doesn't care to be his rival now). When he visited Moon and Moon started going on about how nobody would ever love Eclipse, Eclipse made that remark about him being unable to bring back Solar. The way he did this and then immediately mentioned wanting to prove who is the dominant one makes me believe that Eclipse feels like he can bring back Solar and one-up Moon in doing so.

Of course, another reason he wants to do this is because Puppet and Frank's words actually got through to him. He knows he needs a purpose to feel fulfilled. He always needs a goal to work towards, otherwise he feels incomplete. Apparently, at least for the time being, his goal seems to revolve around being superior to Moon. Ever since his first death that seems to be the case. Moon and Eclipse can't seem to get away from each other and seem to be drawn together like moths to a flame at this point. If he redeems himself, I still feel like it'll be hard for him to pass up this rivalry even if it does become a more friendly rivalry. But, regardless, the words of Puppet and Frank seemed to have sparked something within him that he couldn't shake off.

But there's also the fact he visited Earth and spoke to her. When he visited Sun and Moon's home, he simply seemed to be investigating (more on that later) but when he visited Earth he seemed interested in actually talking to her. He appeared to be there primarily to speak to her about Solar's death. When he asked her if she really needed Solar and she said yeah, he let out this long sigh. I can't help but wonder if that set him fully on the path to finding Solar. After all, she seems to be the only person to have shown him true kindness thus far and he's finally believing that she is genuine as well as starting to respect her as an individual. Maybe he's starting to care about her. He didn't mock her or anything and simply seemed curious on her thoughts. Some people were saying he could have possibly gone to Monty's place to investigate further but I find it doubtful, since Solar didn't have much relevance to Monty's home or anything like that. I think he was there for Earth and maybe trying to disguise the fact he was there for her by just turning and looking away from her as he spoke.

Anyway, that's it for the motive part of this theory: Needing a purpose, wanting to prove himself (especially to Moon), and maybe feeling a bit of sympathy and empathy (especially toward Earth).

As for the evidence...well, there's that whole conversation that sparked him even considering being the one to bring Solar back. Or even considering it to be a plausible thing that can happen. After Puppet and Frank practically ordered him to do this, he yelled at the air about how it was probably impossible and then muttered "unless..." despite seeming somewhat dismissive still. Then he apparently went into Sun and Moon's home to where Solar died, brushed his finger along the floor, and left. And he of course went to where Earth was for whatever reason...and, of course, proceeded to talk to her about her grief over Solar. He has also seemingly abandoned the immediate desire to kill Ruin. Then he went to Moon and was somewhat mocking him over the fact he couldn't revive Solar and then went on about how he wanted to prove to be more dominant...which is an interesting thing to just suddenly say.

But today's episode is what really sells this theory for me. I mean he was thinking really hard about something, openly said he's not planning on hurting Sun, Moon, or their family, and then needed to think some more and started talking to himself about how he needed code, a lot of power, and maybe something else? He seems to have almost everything he needs. He even doubts that Sun and Moon will even want his help, which makes sense when combined with how he has been treated by the two brothers since Solar's death. Yeah...all this is pointing in the direction of Eclipse reviving Solar.

It's obvious Solar will come back! There are very few people who even think he'll stay dead and even staff in the official server are as convinced as fans that he'll be coming back. Bringing him back, at least according to Puppet, is important to the balance of things as well. The way he died even leaves a lot in the air and makes me feel like his story would indeed not end there. I mean fans were in an uproar more than any death in the series as well, so there's that.

But my main belief is that they wanted to do a Solar redesign anyway. They never wanted to get rid of Solar and they seem to like killing off characters as an excuse to give them new models. A lot. Solar's model in VRchat was glitching a lot anyway and there were hints he'd get a new body regardless but this would make the most sense if we were to get the one we see in thumbnails. Regardless as to why, I think this is gonna be an exciting part of his return!!

I might make a post explaining why I think they'd have Solar die to simply get a new body for him. Some of it obviously has to do with a redemption arc for Eclipse and it ties in well with he plot but there's more things design-wise that make me feel it's the only way to give him the design we see in the thumbnails.

Anyway, yeah, I think Solar is coming back and I think Eclipse will bring him back. Also, no, I do not think Eclipse will have to sacrifice himself for this to happen...so I hope Eclipse AND Solar fans (such as myself) can enjoy the prospect of his return!!

#tsams #sun and moon show #eclipse #sams #sams eclipse #rambles #tsams solar #tsams eclipse #eclipse sams #sams solar #solar sams #tsams theory #sams theory #sun and moon show theory

32 notes · View notes

belsdraw · 28 days

Text

Okay so

Before eclipse was originally introduced in a sense, I was thinking of what to called "eclipse" then I thought of a funny name, Dun.

You know like dark sun. Dun

Now you're probably wondering what's so funny about it, well cause when "dun" comes, we can go

*le gasp

*does the dramatic background when something is revealed

DUN DUN DUNNNN

But when the show revealed that eclipse was the official name, not gonna lie I was a be sad but it's still absolutely good name.... But now.... Hehehee...Now that there's a Dark Sun in the picture... I CAN FINALLY USE THE JOKE FOR REAL! MHHAHAHAHAHAHAAA! >:D

... Okay now that I said what I wanted to say, I shall go back into the shadow.

TILL WE MEET AGAINNN!

#fnaf daycare attendant #fnaf #fnaf security breach #fnaf sun and moon #sun and moon show #security breach #the sun and moon show #tsams #funny jokes #sun and moon show theory #eclipse sams

36 notes · View notes

snowe-zolynn-rogers · 4 months

Text

Kay, so it’s not Ruin. And it’s not Creator. But we do know now that it was a physical person that brought him back because directives were programmed in.

I would offer Evil Moon as a way to fuck with Solar one last time but he’s been dead for a month (two weeks before Eclipse came back) and he wasn’t alive to install directives when Eclipse activated.

Jigsaw is not an option because he’s been dead for two months just about as of Eclipse’s activation. Not a viable answer.

The daycare crew has been ruled out. Monty wouldn’t this. Stitchwraith is busy with his new adopted sons and (when Eclipse activated) kidnapping his sister so he probably didn’t do it. Blood Moon doesn’t have the knowledge to rebuild Eclipse.

My options for viable suspects are:

Evil Sun (though the motive doesn’t seem to be there for him)

Frank (but I think he wouldn’t since he’s been bonding with Earth and she’d be affected by Eclipse as well)

Vanny (though motive would be unknown, someone mentioned it in the comments today)

An Eclipse from a different dimension (motive unknown, but Eclipses are egotistical, maybe they have a vendetta or something)

Lunara/Evil Lunar. (possibly as a way to say fuck you to Sun one more time. Possibly just for fun.)

Someone we don’t know yet. (Could be someone we don’t know, possibly one of those enemies Moon has from Old Moon’s time alive.)

#sun and moon show #sams #five nights at freddy's #fnaf #fnaf eclipse #snoweytrashposts #snoweytalks #snoweyrambles #snoweyrants #sun and moon show spoilers #sams spoilers #sun and moon show theory #sams theory #tw cursing

43 notes · View notes

coughrat · 11 months

Text

SAMS RELATED-

IDK HOW I JUST REALIZED THIS BUT- Old Moons last wish for the next him to be kinder to Sun came true

IDK BUT THIS IS SO SAD

#sundrop and moondrop #sun and moon security breach #daycare fnaf #sun and moon fnaf #sun and moon sb #sun and moon show #fnaf daycare attendant #daycare attendent #sun and moon show theory #The sun and moon show #sams #why is this so sad

71 notes · View notes

pinkydee10 · 1 month

Text

HOLY HECK GUYS, I JUST HAD THE CRAZIEST THEORY!

Even crazier than my “Eclipse might just be Solar Flare” theory I made on TikTok a while ago because this actually makes sense!

Ok, so each zodiac sign rules over each of the large bodies in our solar system, the planets, dwarf planets, ect.

If you look at what each zodiac sign rules over, it corresponds with the powers of each known Astral Body we know about in the SAMS universe.

Leo rules over the sun (not Sundrop but the actual sun). We know second hand from Castor and Pollux that he can control fire which is very similar to what the sun practically does.

Taurus can destroy planets and rules over Venus, the planet that’s practically destroying itself.

Gemini rules over Mercury which represents communication, mentality, thinking patterns, ect. Castor and Pollux can see and hear everything separately, and feel everything together.

This also supports the Frank is Pisces theory that’s been circulating as Pisces rules over Neptune which represents dreams, fantasies, and consciousness. We’ve seen Frank knock Stitchrathe and Bloodmoon unconscious while also showing them visions.

Now for what really blows my mind about this.

One of the Astral Bodies we haven’t heard (as far as I know) mentioned yet is Sagittarius. Sagittarius rules over Jupiter, a planet known for its huge storms and dangerous weather patterns.

And who can control weather? Lunar

We know that Astral Bodies can be and have been reborn. We know Lunar got his powers by “being in the wrong place at the right time”.

I think Lunar might be Sagittarius reborn or at least has a part of their powers.

The Astral Bodies also have the personalities that seem typical for the people within that Zodiac range. Lunar acts like a Sagittarius would. I would know, because I’m one!

This would also explain why Gemini specifically went to assess and train Lunar as Gemini are very compatible with Sagittarius. Leo is very compatible with Sagittarius as well which is probably why he seems excited at the idea of visiting Lunar. Taurus on the other hand is one of the least compatible signs with Sagittarius which may explain why Taurus is very dismissive of Lunar.

Thank you for coming to my info dump, needed to get this out while the thought was still clear!

15 notes · View notes

abyssguardian · 6 months

Text

GUYS I THINK I JUST FOUND SOMTHING!!!

i only just found out about this now, but has anyone else noticed this on this Lunar and Earth Show thumbnail?

closer look

think i have a pretty good idea what that says 👁️👁️

i mean

all the text/writing on the signs are events that have happened only recently

you don't think-

#sun and moon show #Sun and Moon show theory #He's coming back......

34 notes · View notes

azulathetrashyler · 7 months

Text

y’all remember when I theorized that bloody was upset about being replaced by Lunar back when they were FIRST REVEALED??- Like Spinel from SU but more murderous??

bro I think it’s real now- not upset about being replaced with Lunar by ECLIPSE like I originally thought, but definitely upset about being “replaced” by Lunar in some way- I theorized that they would be like a much more aggressive and crazy variation of Spinel personality wise, and it’s kinda going that direction nowadays- 👁👄👁

#azula stfu #BloodMoon sun and moon show #sun and moon show theory #sun and moon show #bloodmoon fnaf #old post reference

25 notes · View notes

alexandraisyes · 4 months

Text

A Ruin and Eclipse Analysis

A comprehensive guide on what I think is going on with Ruin and Eclipse

Disclaimer: This is just my thoughts, theories, and analysis compiled together and will end with what I think is happening as of current.

So first and foremost, Eclipse.

How is he back?

Theory 1: Eclipse's Restoration by KC

Scenario: Eclipse, after being blasted from Sun's mind, ends up in the woods and shuts down. KC, living in the forest, discovers him and begins the repair process. KC's Role: KC, being knowledgeable in magic and star power, has the capability to repair Eclipse. The potential for Eclipse to be made of non-mechanical materials is raised, given KC's expertise.

Theory 2: Ruin's Involvement

A. Eclipse's Backup Ruin's Discovery: Ruin raids Moon's computer and finds 'encrypted code left by Eclipse.' The possibility arises that Eclipse left a backup of his AI in the computer. Ruin's Construction: Ruin, a tech-savvy character, might have built Eclipse using the encrypted code, similar to how he created Bloodmoon. He could selectively choose information to shape Eclipse's identity.

B. Reconstruction of Eclipse Ruin's Connection to Eclipse's Past: Ruin, having lived in Moon's old bunkers and visited Eclipse's locations, reconstructs Eclipse. He restores the AI, potentially using a backup, and integrates commands, fail-safes, and memories of Eclipse's death. Creator's Involvement: The Creator, likely monitoring data flow in the Plex, could be aware of Ruin's actions. The Creator might have interfered or tampered with Eclipse's reconstruction.

C. Newly Minted Ruin isn't healed: A still corrupted Ruin could have been working on Eclipse in order to gain a weapon against his perceived enemies.

Theory 3: Creator's Role

A. Our Creator The Search for KC: The Creator actively hunts down KC, leading to the discovery of Eclipse's repaired chassis. The Creator takes Eclipse, tampering with its data, catching it up to speed. Rebuilding Eclipse: The Creator might have completely rebuilt Eclipse similar to how Ruin reconstructed Bloodmoon. The process involves rebuilding the animatronic, updating it with current data, and possibly altering its memories.

B. The Council. Solar's World: Solar's Creator planned to make a new Daycare Attendant due to the mental deterioration of the current ones. He created the body that Solar currently uses. He is described as extremely manipulative and the trend for Creators is that they are evil geniuses. Beyond the creation of Solar's body and the plan for a new DCA, there is little information about Solar's Creator. It's unclear whether Solar's Creator is alive or dead. Communication Among Creators: Creators from different universes communicate with each other. Assuming Solar's Creator is alive, it is plausible that they are part of the Creator Council, as mentioned in discussions about creators from different universes communicating. This opens up the possibility of Solar's Creator passing along any potential remnants or data of Eclipse to the broader Creator network. Eclipse's Death in Solar's Universe: Eclipse's demise in Solar's universe raises questions about the fate of his remnants, especially considering the potential fluid nature of his body due to star power. Considering Eclipse's body's fluid nature and the possibility of it being made of nanos using star power, there's a far-fetched idea that even remnants or collected data could be significant.

Overall Thoughts

Candidates for Bringing Eclipse Back: KC, Ruin, and the Creator remain potential candidates for bringing Eclipse back. Interconnected Roles: The roles of these characters seem interconnected, with Ruin and the Creator potentially influencing or obstructing each other's actions. Cloud-Based Backup System: The possibility of a cloud-based backup system for AIs, as seen with Moon and Sun's backups, is considered in theories involving Eclipse's restoration.

Is this our Eclipse? Is this a new Eclipse?

Going Through the Motions

Eclipse's Audible Confusion and Odd Behavior:

Observation: Eclipse exhibits confusion when Sun and Moon discuss his past explosion. He also appears to have regressed in character growth, expressing slight distress over the absence of the star and showing disinterest in Astral Bodies and Lunar. Actor Analogy: Eclipse's words seem scripted, and he appears to be acting out a role that doesn't align with his previous character development. This raises questions about the authenticity of his memories and emotions.

Potential Explanations for Eclipse's Confusion:

New Eclipse with Implanted Memories: Possibility: Eclipse may not be the original, but a new animatronic programmed with memories and data of the deceased Eclipse. Reasoning: Eclipse questions his own actions, suggesting a discrepancy between his expected behavior and his current demeanor. Someone could have programmed him to act in a certain way.

Tampered Code in Original Eclipse: Possibility: Eclipse could be the original, but his code might have been tampered with, triggering actions contrary to his natural behavior. Reasoning: Eclipse's confusion about his own actions indicates a potential external influence on his behavior.

Amnesia or Trauma from Death: Possibility: Eclipse might be the Eclipse that died in Solar's universe, experiencing amnesia or trauma from his demise. Reasoning: Traumatic events like death could lead to repressed memories or amnesia. Eclipse's hesitation to move on after he was presumably killed should be considered.

Origins of Eclipse's Potential Manipulation:

Creators or Skilled Individuals: Possibility: Several characters possess the capability to manipulate Eclipse's memories and code, including the Creator, Ruin, or other skilled individuals. Reasoning: Eclipse's complexity and connection to the digital network make him susceptible to manipulation by those with expertise. As does the potential of backups that said network would have been feeding his data to.

A Summary of Previously Discussed Ruin Analyses

Redeemed

Observations: Ruin claims to be less tech-savvy, showcasing slower repair skills, and displays skittish behavior. This suggests a potential decline in intelligence and increased timidity compared to his previous capabilities. Hypothesis: This theory proposes that the current Ruin is a reflection of his state before the virus, showcasing lowered intelligence and heightened skittishness.

Jekyll and Hyde

Speculation: While less likely, the theory considers the possibility of the virus evolving into a separate AI, akin to KC and Eclipse. The blocks of code might have developed a distinct personality, creating a duality in Ruin's behavior. Reasoning: The concept is explored by comparing Ruin's situation to instances where other characters evolved from code blocks, like KC and Eclipse.

Actor

Acting Possibility: This theory suggests that Ruin might be acting, and the virus's removal only affected superficial aspects. The claim is that Ruin's personality flip-flop is a result of his acting skills. Analysis: The argument stems from observations that the virus should not have changed Ruin's core personality. Instances where Ruin's behavior seems out of character are attributed to acting.

Partly Healed

Antidote Limitation: This theory posits that the antidote removed the oppression factor of the virus but left behind elements of resentment, insanity, and cunningness. The result is a partly healed Ruin displaying polarized behavior. Rationale: The idea is based on the assumption that Ruin's traits, such as cunningness, were inherent to him even before the virus. The combination of pre-virus traits and lingering virus effects leads to an off-kilter personality.

Merged

Integration Concept: This theory proposes that the antidote didn't entirely remove the virus but caused it to merge with Ruin's main AI. This could result in a blend of Ruin's pre-virus baseline functions with the motives and reasoning developed during the virus. Comparison to Theories Three and Four: The merged theory combines elements of acting and partial healing. Ruin retains memories from the virus but behaves as if he doesn't, potentially using this to gain advantages.

Comprehensive Analysis/Theory: Eclipse's Resurrection and Ruin's Pretense

Eclipse's Resurrection:

Eclipse's Backup: Ruin's Discovery: Ruin uncovers the 'encrypted code left by Eclipse' in Moon's computer, suggesting the possibility of Eclipse leaving a backup of his AI. Ruin's Reconstruction: Utilizing his tech skills and knowledge of Eclipse's past locations, Ruin reconstructs Eclipse's AI, potentially using a backup. The process involves integrating commands, fail-safes, and memories of Eclipse's death.

Tampered Code in Original Eclipse: Possibility: Eclipse might be the original, but his code could have been tampered with, leading to behavior contrary to his natural tendencies. Reasoning: Eclipse's confusion about his actions hints at an external influence on his behavior.

Ruin's Complex State and Pretense - Three Thoughts:

Writer's Note, organized from strongest to weakest in the writer's opinion

Acting, Manipulation, and Strategic Goals

Acting Prowess and Strategic Manipulation: Acting Skills: Ruin's well-documented acting skills, coupled with his love for games and manipulative nature, form a foundation for the theory that he might be pretending to be cured. Strategic Pretense: The theory posits that Ruin's post-cured state is a calculated act, utilizing his intelligence and cunning to strategically manipulate situations and achieve specific goals.

Acting Possibility and Superficial Aspects: Personality Flip-Flop: Ruin's observed personality flip-flop is attributed to acting skills, suggesting that the removal of the virus only affected superficial aspects of his behavior. Analysis: The theory proposes that Ruin is putting on an act, deliberately manipulating his behavior to achieve specific goals. This act may have implications related to Eclipse's resurrection and other underlying motives.

Utilization in the Narrative: Strategic Manipulation in Eclipse's Resurrection: Ruin's pretense aligns with the events surrounding Eclipse's resurrection. His strategic manipulation could involve influencing Eclipse's actions or shaping the narrative to further specific objectives related to Eclipse, the Creator, or broader plot elements. Exploring Motives: By considering Ruin's acting as a calculated move, the narrative gains depth as it prompts exploration into Ruin's motives. Questions arise about the true extent of his post-cured state and the underlying goals he aims to achieve. Psychological Dynamics: The nuanced interplay of acting and manipulation introduces a layer of psychological dynamics between Ruin and other characters. Understanding the motives behind the act becomes crucial in unraveling the evolving complexities within the storyline.

Ruin's Integrated State: Merging Virus and Baseline Functions

Integration Concept: Virus Merger: The antidote doesn't completely eradicate the virus but facilitates its integration with Ruin's main AI. Blended State: This integration results in a unique blend, combining Ruin's pre-virus baseline functions with motives and reasoning developed during the virus.

Advantages through Memories: Retained Memories: Ruin retains memories from the virus, providing him with a reservoir of strategic information. Strategic Utilization: Despite retaining memories, Ruin behaves as if he doesn't remember certain events, potentially using this selective amnesia strategically.

Utilization in the Narrative: Hybrid Functionality: Ruin's integrated state introduces a hybrid functionality that influences his decision-making and interactions. The narrative gains complexity as it explores how the merged elements impact his thought processes. Strategic Amnesia: The concept of strategic amnesia becomes a focal point, allowing Ruin to selectively utilize memories from the virus for advantageous situations. This introduces an element of unpredictability in his actions. Plot Intricacies: The blended state contributes to plot intricacies, offering opportunities for narrative twists and character development. The interplay between Ruin's baseline functions and virus-induced motives adds layers to the evolving storyline.

Ruin's Partly Healed State: Antidote Limitation and Polarized Behavior

Antidote Limitation: Oppression Factor Removal: The antidote is effective in removing the oppression factor of the virus that influenced Ruin's behavior. Residual Elements: However, it leaves behind elements of resentment, insanity, and cunningness within Ruin's psychological framework.

Polarized Behavior: Partly Healed State: Ruin's state post-antidote is described as partly healed, indicating that not all aspects of the virus were eradicated. Combination of Traits: The partly healed state results in polarized behavior, where pre-virus traits combine with lingering virus effects, creating a nuanced psychological landscape for Ruin.

Utilization in the Narrative: Character Complexity: Ruin's partly healed state introduces complexity to his character, showcasing a blend of his original traits and remnants of the virus. This dynamic adds depth to his interactions and motivations. Strategic Decision-Making: Understanding the polarized behavior allows for a more nuanced exploration of Ruin's decision-making processes. It raises questions about how he navigates situations, leveraging both pre-existing traits and remnants of the virus to achieve specific goals. Interplay with Other Characters: The polarized behavior contributes to the intricate interplay between Ruin and other characters, impacting alliances, conflicts, and the overall trajectory of the narrative.

Motivation for Pretending: Desire for Creator's Demise

Pre-Cure Motivation:

Long-standing Desire: Before the supposed cure, Ruin harbored a deep-seated desire for the Creator's death, showcasing a motive that persisted even during the virus-influenced phase. Persistent Goal: The existence of this pre-cure motivation implies an enduring goal that could continue to shape Ruin's actions.

Post-Cure Manipulation: Utilizing Pretense: The theory proposes that Ruin's pretended cured state serves as a tool for manipulation. By pretending to be cured, he strategically navigates situations, potentially working towards the long-standing goal of eliminating the Creator. Strategic Advantage: Ruin's pretended cure is seen as a means to an end, providing him with a strategic advantage in influencing events and furthering his motives.

Utilization in the Narrative: Continuity of Motives: The motivation for the Creator's demise establishes a narrative thread that carries over from Ruin's pre-cure state. This continuity adds depth to his character and contributes to ongoing plot developments. Strategic Plot Advancement: Ruin's pretended cured state becomes a tool for strategic plot advancement. The narrative gains momentum as Ruin's actions, influenced by his desire for the Creator's demise, impact the unfolding events. Interplay with Eclipse's Resurrection: The motivation for eliminating the Creator may intertwine with the events surrounding Eclipse's resurrection, creating a complex web of character motivations and plot dynamics.

Ruin's Connection to the Creator and Eclipse's Kidnapping:

Convenient Circumstances: Questionable Authenticity: The circumstances surrounding Ruin's knowledge of the Creator and his seemingly pre-meditated capture by Eclipse raise doubts about the authenticity of Ruin's claimed cured state. Narrative Suspense: The questionable authenticity adds an element of narrative suspense, prompting exploration into Ruin's true motives and the extent of his influence on unfolding events.

Influence on Eclipse's Actions: Unexplained Kidnapping: Eclipse's unexplained decision to kidnap Ruin, coupled with Ruin's knowledge of the Creator, suggests a potential link between Ruin's actions and Eclipse's choices. Manipulation Possibility: The hints at potential manipulation through triggered commands or pre-meditated actions introduce an intriguing layer to the narrative, raising questions about the nature of Eclipse's motivations.

Inconsistency in Memory Claims: Post-Cure Memory Claims: Ruin asserts having no memories from his time infected with the virus. However, his knowledge and comments about Sun and Moon's Creator appear inconsistent with this claim. Suspicion and Incongruity: The discrepancy raises suspicions about the veracity of Ruin's memory loss, suggesting a potential pretense.

Pre-Meditated Scenario for Creator's Disposal:

Ease of Manipulation: Facilitated by Pretense: The theory proposes that Ruin's pretended cured state creates an environment conducive to manipulating events with greater ease. Strategic Advantage: The pretense enhances Ruin's strategic advantage, allowing him to navigate situations more effectively and influence key characters.

Potential for Creator's Disposal: Tailored Setup: The setup, involving Ruin's pretended cured state and Eclipse's actions, appears tailored for the manipulation of events leading towards the disposal of the Creator. Utilizing Eclipse as a Tool: Ruin's manipulation of events could involve utilizing Eclipse as a tool in a pre-meditated scenario aimed at eliminating the Creator.

Utilization in the Narrative: Strategic Plot Development: The pre-meditated scenario for the Creator's disposal adds layers to the strategic development of the plot. Ruin's actions, driven by his desire for the Creator's demise, become a driving force in the narrative. Character Manipulation: The theory introduces a dynamic where Ruin, through his pretended cured state, manipulates key characters, particularly Eclipse. The narrative explores the impact of this manipulation on character motivations and plot progression. Unveiling Motives: The unraveling of Ruin's motives and the execution of a pre-meditated scenario for the Creator's disposal become pivotal narrative arcs, promising revelations and suspense.

Conclusion:

This is, again, just a collection of theories, analyses, and thoughts on the current developments of Ruin and Eclipse. My brain hurts. I love uh, feedback on my thoughts. Let me know if you agree, disagree, etc.

Want to join the conversation or see my thought process in real time? Well, you're in luck, we have a thread on the Sun and Moon/Security Breach Show Server where we talk about the thoughts in my silly little brain and people ask me questions about said thoughts.

If you made it to the end comment/reblog with the word Dorito.

#sun and moon show #fnaf au #earth and lunar show #eclipse sams #sun and moon show theory #eclipse sams theory #character theory #character analysis #Ruin SAMS Theory #ruin sams #tsams eclipse #tags whoo #alex talks #big brain time #tsams fnaf

39 notes · View notes

rayofmisfortune · 5 months

Text

WOW YESTERDAY'S EP HUH?? KDNDNC

SAMS ☀️🌙& LAES 🌌🌍 theory dump below the cut

OKAY SO AGAIN a majority of these are theories made by or pointed out by people in comments. This time I will only be borrowing information from replies to my own comment, as everyone's gone absolutely HAM with their theories under it!

I will be leaving screenshots with proper credits to the respective people so that everyone's ideas are their own.

NOW THEN

What it all started with- at 10:05 in the 'Repairing BLOODMOON in VRCHAT' episode, we get Rotrick say: "You're far too perfect for the job, my boy."

WHICH RIGHT OF THE BAT! Gives MAJOR Creator vibes! Like- no questions asked. That's the Creator's way of speech. Someone in the replies said the phrase was familiar to them, AND IT IS! The creator used it in MGAFS episode featuring the Creator, Trashcan man (tho he got a glow up) and Stitchwraith: "Stitchy, my boy."

It may have been a different video, but I'm 100% certain the Creator saying this was connected to the Stitchwraith.

So! We now have it semi-confirmed that the one controlling Rotrick IS IN FACT the Creator. Working behind the scenes yet again to make everyone's lifes hell.

FURTHERMORE IF YOU HAVE ANY DOUBTS!

This commenter revealed even more proof supporting this theory:

SO atp, there's pretty much no doubt that the one controlling Rotrick and subsequently manipulating BM IS the Creator. But is it our Creator, or a different one?

It would make the most sense if it WAS the creator we know. He has the motivation for it, he wants the Stitchwraith gone and dealt with.

But then again, while Sun and Moon were in Ruin's dimension, we've learnt that the (evil) Creators have a sort of alliance across dimensions. Not sure what this Creator's motive would be, but it's just a lil what if of mine lmfao.

Anyway as people in comments said:

THIS

The Creator noticed Lunar meddling with Earth's programming and trying to get rid of that one essencial program that is the only thing keeping Earth loyal to him.

So! He pushed BM via Rotrick to break Earth to a point where he had an excuse to give her upgrades, without needing to worry about making her come willingly and explaining himself to her beforehand.

Whatever he added into Earth, is uhhh a mystery to me. Yes I watched the episode of LAES where Moon and Solar take a look into Earth's systems, but I have no idea as to what that something could be.

Please feel free to share ya'll's own thoughts and theories, pls I need people to geek out with help jdbdbfbf

Thanks for coming to my ted talk jsnxnfb

#sun and moon show #tsams #sams #lunar and earth show #laes #tsams theory #sun and moon show theory #tsams creator #tsams moon #tsams sun #tsams solar #laes earth #laes lunar #ray's ramblings #tsams bloodmoon #tsams rotrick

37 notes · View notes

possumsarenice · 3 months

Text

I HAVE A THEORY ON WHO BROUGHT ECLIPSE BACK.

Ruin built him before he was cured as a failsafe. And whatever directives Eclipse was built with are meant to restore Ruin to his previous-virus infected self in case he ever was cured. And he built Eclipse to put on a show to distract Sun and Moon from him so when he does get re-infected they won’t notice. He probably had it set up so Eclipse would show up a few months after he was cured so it wouldn’t be suspicious.

#possum trash talks #sun and moon show #the sun and moon show #sams #tsams #sams theory #tsams theory #sun and moon show theory #the sun and moon show theory

29 notes · View notes

joltyflare · 2 months

Text

(Sun and Moon Show Theory # 1: Ruin Still Does Have Another AI Inside His Body)

I've done a few rants now...time for my first theory post!!

So, Ruin is one of the most mysterious characters in the entire series. When he first appeared, he was a maniac who just wanted to torture and kill everyone in sadistic ways.

Or so he seemed.

It was then revealed that the Creator of his universe inflicted all the animatronics with a virus that made them all evil and sadistic and that Ruin was one of these many animatronics.

Or so he seemed.

When he banished Sun and Moon to Ruin's dimension, they managed to get a cure, return to their home, inject Ruin with it, and possibly cure him.

Ahem... Or so it seemed...

After this, he was always a little suspicious but he at least seemed different from his former maniac self. He was no longer seeking out others to play insane "games" that were very sadistic in nature and usually involved some sort of physical suffering. He seemed meek and shy as well as terribly clumsy as well as a little eccentric and, let's face it...not the brightest.

But there always was still that doubt that he wasn't fully cured and that he was behind the return of the infamous Eclipse. Or, if he was cured, still had some plans going on in the background. After all, not much was known about Eclipse other than that he was the fusion of his Sun and Moon and that he came from a dimension destroyed by the Creator there. It would make sense for him to still have motives that would cause him to do strange things. He was also proven to be a good actor more than once. The fandom was split in half on the decision of whether or not to believe that he was innocent but it has been proven that he was indeed NOT innocent.

Yet the common consensus was that he was faking not being cured or that he was cured and was just pretending he didn't bring Eclipse back and wasn't doing anything wrong. Nobody really thought about the possibility that he had also been pretending to have the virus all along and never really had it! Yet he claims that was the case and that he had simply been a carrier, stating that his whole manic behaviour was all an act to get rid of Sun and Moon so that he could use their home to start prepping his plans to get rid of the Creator Council.

So, it seems that Ruin is a very, very good actor. Most of what he has done has been an act. His manic, sadistic, chaos-loving "virus self" and his shy, clumsy, frankly adorable self were simply personas.

But one thing that has remained consistent is the prospect of him having another entity trapped within his body, one that he's possibly blocking from having control somehow. We've seen this happen quite a few times with characters in this series at this point so it's obviously possible.

There have been a few hints to this being the case, such as when he rescued Foxy (before beating him to a pulp lol), was interrogated the first time, and after Moon and Solar went through his memories. The second instance could quite easily be an act and it would make sense if it was. However...why would he have done so when rescuing Foxy or when waking up after having had his mind scrubbed? These instances also take place in both his virus persona and innocent persona phases.

When he saved Foxy in that one MGAFS episode and beat him up (which I may make a post on itself), another personality seemed to interrupt him beating up Foxy and apologized profusely for what was going on. There was the implication that this personality was his good side and was trapped in his body and couldn't control it, with Ruin somehow suppressing it. Everyone assumed this was his non-virus-afflicted self but in recent episodes, he said he was just actin like he had a virus. Still, this scene is very odd. He seemed to genuinely be losing control and, yes, he is a VERY GOOD ACTOR and all but why would he have done that? Was it because he himself felt bad and he felt so guilty he wanted to act out that second personality apologizing? Was it because he wanted to really hammer in the story that he was under the influence of a virus to the point where he'd pretend his non-virus self came out at that moment to convince Foxy too?

It just struck me as odd, you know? This personality didn't have the accent (though I assumed this could be a retcon at first and it still could be even if my theory is correct). I'm not sure why but I just feel like this was a genuine moment.

But what really made me think someone else is being suppressed in Ruin's mind is when Moon scrubbed his mind and Ruin woke up and said "our head is spinning." When Moon questioned his use of the word "our", Ruin seemed to get quite defensive. For all he acting that he does, I don't think he would incriminate himself by saying something like this on purpose. I believe this was a genuine slip-up on his behalf like there was someone else there he was referring to. After all, he was doing his best to make it so that Moon was not suspicious of him in any way. As far as Ruin was concerned, his innocent persona had no secret side. There would have been no benefit for him to have pretended it did have another personality in it.

He also seemed to be muttering something to himself about someone being free soon during that episode where he reveals himself to Sun and waits for Moon to show up. Sure, he could have been referring to the dimensions that are being saved by the Creator Council's downfall being freed from their grasp, but it's still an odd word choice if that is the case.

It's the mind-scrubbing episode mixed with the Foxy episode that does it for me though. My theory is that there is someone else stuck in his head who doesn't agree with the methods Ruin has for ending the Creator Council. Someone who is a lot more peaceful than he is and who doesn't like that others have to suffer for this goal to be achieved. I think Ruin is suppressing this side of himself but I think he interacts with him from time to time. We know that this is something that can happen.

I think that this is the side of him that has the "sweet Sun voice", as others have called it in the past when wondering why it had an accent and "cured Ruin" doesn't. But just who is it? According to what Ruin said in his backstory episode, his Sun and Moon merged and ended up as him. They weren't separate and became one entity, right? But, with the way the episode ends, he doesn't exactly say much about how the process went or what happened after. Did something go wrong? Did another entity get involved and, perhaps, Moon got merged with them by accident instead of with Sun? (I say Moon due to the non-British voice I mentioned being Sun, meaning it would've had to have been Moon to have been merged or lost had something gone wrong) Could something have gone wrong later down the line, perhaps when the Creator made Ruin into a carrier of the virus? Had he experimented on Ruin and tampered with him, causing something to occur and possibly create a new personality entirely in the process?

I feel like it's really possible that the Creator could have done something that created Ruin as we know it, introducing another new personality to the singular body. Ruin hates the Creators, all of them, with a passion. He clearly has something personal against them on top of the knowledge they will destroy as many universes as they can with their antics.

When telling Moon he should go mourn the loss of Solar with the rest of the family, Ruin also mentions that he knows what it's like to grieve with others. Ruin has obviously gone through a lot... I mean, yes, we knew he went through a lot after what his dimension went through and all but there's a lot more he isn't telling us. I want to know everything about Ruin!

My theory is something tragic caused Ruin to become the way we know him as today and that he does indeed have another personality within him. While I don't think Ruin himself is evil or anything, I do believe whoever's inside his head is a lot more peaceful and doesn't agree with the way he's going about things. I'd assume if there's someone else within him then he is pretty traumatized from the things he's seen Ruin do at this point. We don't know the details of what happened after Sun and Moon merged. Ruin was very vague. For all I know, it's possible the Moon half of him got destroyed entirely at some point.

Hopefully, we learn more about him soon. He is really, really good at hiding things from everyone but it seems like he's willing to reveal everything soon. I just think he's sharing a body with someone. I don't think he hates this other being but I do think he suppresses him because he doesn't want whoever it is getting in his way of stopping the Creators.

Anyway, I doubt he'll die soon. He mystery plot armour!

I wouldn't say I articulated my thoughts the greatest here and I mostly rambled but I'll post it anyway.

#tsams #sun and moon show #sams #tsams ruin #sams ruin #ruin tsams #tsams theory #sams theory #sun and moon show ruin #sun and moon show theory #rambles #idk

21 notes · View notes