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ecoterrorist-katara · 2 months

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Zutara, romance novels, and the female gaze

Okay so I’ve been thinking about the female gaze a LOT so I checked out a subreddit about romance novels, despite never having read one. I came across this meme (which was initially a Tumblr post and then got posted to Instagram and then to Reddit and I’m now bringing back to Tumblr — Internet telephone, pls never change):

And…what is The Southern Raiders, if not a platonic grovel? Katara’s pain is central to the episode. It’s central to Zuko. Zuko asks Katara what he can do to make up for his betrayal; she demands the impossible. He reads between the lines, cockblocks her brother to get the necessary information, and then waits outside her door overnight (which he also did for Iroh, the one person we know for sure he loves). He basically makes himself a receptacle for her rage, and he holds space for her by coming with her on her revenge quest and carrying their bags and not saying a damn thing about what she should and should not do beyond like…asking her to rest. And obviously the grovel works! She forgives him and then they’re thick as thieves, bantering and fighting and saving each other’s lives, etc.

On a different note, I’ve been told that enemies to lovers is one of the biggest tropes in romance novels, similar to YA lit and fanfic. Here’s something else I found in the romance novel discourse:

And…yeah. In TSR, Katara really does show Zuko her worst self, because she doesn’t feel the need to perform for him. She doesn’t feel the need to perform moral perfection OR cold blooded vengeance. She bloodbends in front of him and he just goes with it. She doesn’t kill Yon Rha and he just goes with it. He doesn’t treat her any differently afterwards. Maybe they talk about it off screen, but I kind of like the idea that they don’t, because Katara doesn’t need to explain anything. And it’s so interesting, because some people in the ATLA fandom have a totally different read on TSR. They think Zuko was encouraging Katara to get revenge (by what, keeping his mouth shut?), and that Aang is the one who acts as her moral compass. I believe that either Bryan or Mike said in the DVD commentary that Aang is the angel on her shoulder the entire time. And this interpretation does make sense if you see it from the male gaze, where Katara as an object of affection is acting in an angry, irrational, threatening way. But if you see it from the female gaze, you recognize that actually it’s probably the most emotionally taxing experience Katara has to go through, and she doesn’t owe it to be nice or perfect to anybody. Katara’s formative trauma literally comes to a head, and she has to make a decision — no, a discovery — about who she is in relation to the tragedy that defines her life and even her identity (as a waterbender, as a parentified child who becomes the mom friend, as a genocide victim), and she’s accompanied by someone who trusts her judgement and validates her feelings.

I’m not saying TSR is explicitly romantically coded, but when it conforms so well to romance novel tropes…is it any wonder that so many people thought “yes this is her man?” And then he takes lightning in the heart for her and reaches for her when he’s literally dying, I will never be normal about that either

#Zutara #Katara #Zuko #the southern raiders #Pro zutara #anti Bryke #I guess #I swear I’m not a Bryke anti but I feel like they just don’t get #The female gaze #and the fact that Zutara is so female gaze is kind of an accident and I find that fascinating #atla fandom critical #The southern raiders turned me into a Zutara shipper #one ep away from the finale #Zutara meta #My meta

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firelxdykatara · 3 years

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Do you think the creator meant that Gray wasn’t good enough for Carmen at the moment, but when they meet up later they’ll both be more mature and grown and he’d be good enough for her? Because if not and he just meant not good enough period then I’m really confused.. I mean why make their relationship so important and recurring ever season? Why give them history and so much development from best friends to enemies to possible romantic interests to evil duo to enemies to open ended? and so many romantic themes and Gray sacrificing himself for Carmen multiple times and vice versa? How is he not good enough for her by the end? Or at least potentially at the very least? Also did he say red crackle was one sided on Gray’s side because I swear Carmen definitely appeared to reciprocate his romantic feelings?? I’m bummed out :/

I got another ask from an anon yesterday that put it pretty succinctly:

Duane straight up called Gray a sociopath in that interview like.... don't think the dude has the best grasp on his character.

So that’s basically my headspace right now. The fact is, I’m no stranger to showrunners not exactly understanding their own work--see: my opinions about bryke--and while I absolutely respect the man and love that he helped bring Carmen Sandiego to life, I recognize that his voice was not the only one in the writer’s room, and certainly not the only one that matters.

in fact, during the same interview he said that after he wrote the pilot, he was actually surprised that the rest of the team loved Gray so much. He hadn’t actually planned for Gray to play a part in the rest of the series--from what he said, the amnesia plotline and, therefore, everything about Gray’s importance to season 4, came from the other writers, because they saw Gray and loved his dynamic with Carmen and wanted to build upon and develop that.

So I would venture to say that he didn’t recognize the wealth of potential Gray--and Gray’s relationship with Carmen--had, for much the same reason that he doesn’t understand Gray as a character. It’s also entirely possible that he misspoke, or didn’t exactly mean ‘sociopath’ but couldn’t think of a better term--sociopathy and psychopathy are outdated psychological terms to begin with, and if we were going to apply them to VILE characters, Maelstrom or Tigress or Paperstar (especially Paperstar) would come to mind long before Gray would, in terms of ‘willingness to cause harm and an inability (or refusal) to care about harm caused’.

I will say, too, that the specific context in which ‘not good enough’ came up was ‘at that time’--if I recall, he was talking specifically about Gray in the flashback, and the Gray who was willing to kill Carmen in the pilot, although I would argue that while he may have gone to Paris with the intent to get rid of her, per VILE’s orders, his resolve wavered the instant they were face to face. It’s the only explanation for why he was so clearly stalling for time, asking Carmen about her story, asking her to tell him why she left him, and why she never came home. I think it’s fair to posit, at this point, that he was desperately hoping for some excuse--anything that could give him a reason to take her in alive.

And, like I said in my very first meta, when the time came to actually fight her? His heart just wasn’t in it.

At the end of the day, though, Duane Capizzi is just one person. He’s the showrunner, true, and he had a voice in the writer’s room, but he wasn’t the only voice, and so he wasn’t the only person interpreting the show as it went along. And he also said, in reference to romantic relationships as a whole throughout the series, that ‘if you see it, then it was intentional’. Carmen biting her lip during the date with Gray, Carmen accepting that date in the first place, the depth of their emotional connection--all of this was intentional. It isn’t the only potential relationship dynamic to be found in the show--and, honestly, playing to the most vocal shippers in the event that no relationships were canon is the smart move here, so I can’t even blame him for that--but I’m not gonna let the showrunner’s personal opinion dissuade me from my own reading of the text.

Bryke couldn’t put me off by being vocally anti-zutara for over a decade, so I’m ok with a kind of lukewarm ‘if you like it then it’s there’ acceptance, especially since I don’t exactly agree with the showrunner’s views on other aspects of the show.

#carmen sandiego #graham crackle #graham calloway #red crackle #graham meta #cs meta #validation from creators is nice but it honestly isn't necessary #and sometimes they're just Wrong #asked #Anonymous

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fortunatelychaoticphantom · 4 years

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What is your opinion on the portrayal of bloodbending vs that of energybending in atla? It might be a stretch but I think because energybending is solely used by Aang, it is not thought of as "evil" as the way bloodbending is.

That might be the most perfectly succinct way to describe the difference between the two bending forms that I have ever seen.

A part of the fact that Aang does nothing to gain the ability to energybend and instead it is simply bestowed upon him at the last second as a cop-out to making a choice, is that this technique, its cost and its consequences are not at all discussed in any form. In “The Puppetmaster” we got an entire episode dedicated to the way water can be harvested from practically anywhere, including the human body, and what it means, with the disturbing visuals of dead Fire Lilies and crumbled sucked-dry trees to drive the point home

and this comes as an extension to the already established manipulation of water in plants that we saw in “The Swamp” and the creative water sources in “The Runaway”. In “The Old Masters” and “Avatar Aang” we get, like, what? a combined 30 seconds of explanation of how energybending works? only it’s more of an inspirational quote than an actual explanation... Honestly, we still don’t know how this works or why it works and why is Aang able to preform this technique in the first place.

Considering the horror narrative of Hama’s story and the atrocities that she committed*, it’s obvious why bloodbending was framed in such a dark and heavy light when it was presented. The fact that is was never touched again except to be used when Katara was at her “darkest” in “The Southern Raiders”, shows what the creators think about this ability. It’s ridiculous to think that in thousands of years of history not a single waterbender besides Hama has ever bloodbent**, or that there is no existing traditions, discussions about it’s possible use in healing, or even taboos about this subject in Water Tribe cultures. But, anyway, the writers just tossed this ability aside and declared it “forbidden” in LoK, so that kids will know just how bad bad bad this bending form is.

Energy bending, on the other hand, never got this treatment, even though it is absolutely horrifying???? and lacking any redeeming quality that I can find like with using bloodbending for healing??? They didn’t bother to go into the depths of horror that is energybending in AtLA, but boy oh boy did they try to in LoK. But instead of actually talking about energybending they did a pretty sinister thing (in my opinion), that feels like it was specifically made so as not to taint the purity of the technique and its wielder, and just copy-pasted the implications of energybending onto bloodbending.

LoK’s first season actually tried to touch on the pain and devastation of what it means to be stripped away from your bending abilities. And even though it was far from perfect and never fully explored or resolved, at the very least they showed us that side. We see how drained and sad that pro-bending player (don’t remember his name) was after losing his bending, we see how heartbreaking Lin’s power-stripping was and what a sacrifice she had to make to ensure that the last airbenders in the world will not lose their abilities, we see how broken Korra is after losing her own bending, even though she still has airbending, and the very very much implied suicidal thoughts that it brought to her. We understand that taking someone’s bending has gravitas, has deep emotional implications. But... we can’t talk about energybending in a bad way, right? So...

HEY KIDS! Did you think ebergybending was a random ability that did whatever the plot needed it to do with no plausible reasoning or explanation? Well! From the people who brought you the Magic of the Pointy Rock, we re-introduce you to bloodbending!! But now! It can take your bending away! For some reason! We don’t know why! It just does!

**Bryke at some point, probably**

So beside shifting the entire discussion from one technique to another, even though only one of them actually does the thing we are talking about, they went so far as to make sure we don’t suspect for a second that what we see is actually energybending, showing Amon/Noatak always positioned behind the person he strips, using only one hand on the forehead

instead of Aang’s position in front of the person, with two hands, one on the forehead and one on the chest (don’t even get me started on what a horrible ending this shit was. I swear if I see one more literal deus ex machina in this franchise I’m gonna scream! oh wait, this is just season 1...)

(Sorry for the low quality of photos. I don’t have LoK for obvious reasons so I had to screenshot these from youtube)

So, in summation, yeah you’re absolutely right. Energybending is specifically and methodically portrayed in a positive way, even when it shouldn’t be, especially in light of and in contrast to bloodbending, a form that gets far too many beatings and more than it deserves, for reasons that I don’t understand at best and I don’t think I want to understand at worst (the fact that this is a Katara-centric ability and her lack of statues in LoK, its connection to Katara’s very much existing brutal and belligerent tendencies that are continually ignored and swept aside for the “dream girl” image, the connection between bloodbending and anti zutara rethoric in tsr... this list isn’t pretty)

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* I still don’t understand how Hama’s victims were alive. She kidnapped just one person each month, but the cave was full of people. Did she feed them? cleaned their potty buckets? like what was the point?? to make them live through the pain that she had to live through as a prisoner? how is this sustainable for one old lady? this makes zero sense and drives me crazy to this day. There should have only been one living person, the most recent that was kidnapped, and just skeletons around them. That would have been more logical. And it’s not like skeletons weren’t shown on the show... sorry, I’m rambling (and haven’t seen the episode in years, I hope I remember it correctly).

** Toph’s metal bending is a little different, since obviously metal had to be invented at a certain point so no one could attempt to bend it before that. Human bodies on the other hand have been more than available and full of water since the dawn of humanity, and I doubt there hasn’t been a single waterbender powerful enough who could sense the presence of water in people and, I don’t know, tried to talk to someone about it? also, waterbenders are healers?? they actively know the human body, not just coincidentally? how did no one talk about this before?? and regarding metalbending again, It’s not entirely unreasonable that Toph really was the first to bend metal, since of course there has to be a first in everything. But honestly if you ask me it’s a little... weird. But this is very much off-topic.

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jyndor · 3 years

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I swear, WHY are these people harassing MINORS. The atla fandom is mostly adults at this point, that they're SEARCHING KIDS OUT is just so absolutely disgusting. Those kids got to miss the initial ship wars, let them go through 2020 in peace.

Anon I feel you. Full disclosure, I have had a bottle of wine and spent four hours talking to my family on zoom so I’m heated. Okay, here we go. Let me say this. I am 29 and neurodivergent/ADHD so I prefer explicitly-stated social rules of engagement. Like I don’t always pick up on social cues and that has gotten me into interpersonal conflicts in the past with my peers.

BUT. I am 29 so I also understand that I am in a different place than I was when I was 15 or 12 or 17. I have different needs, different expectations, from those who interact with me than I did when I was a kid. Fuck, I know how it might have felt back 15 years ago to hear adults say “she’s a kid, she doesn’t know what she needs, her brain isn’t fully developed and she can’t legally consent” yeah that pissed me off and in some ways it wasn’t true but with regard to consent it was. Of course it was. But what I’m hearing from these minors, these teenagers who I don’t know if they’re 12 or 17, but they’re not asking to be treated like adults - they’re asking to be treated with respect.

Now all of what I am about to say is not me excusing this behavior, but analyzing why it happens. And yes, I am about to say that all of these anons are white I can smell the entitlement in the air.

I know why these fools are targeting minors and poc zutara shippers. I know why. You know why. We all know. They are EASY fucking targets. It’s sick, picking on kids. Absolutely sick. Harassment, predatory. And they are also acting in bad faith - if they were working in good faith, they would come off anon and say, “hey x I truly believe that zutara is harmful and I am confused as to why a poc would be cool with something that other poc say is harmful to them, can we have a discourse?” now granted, this is fucked up and essentialist garbage, and no one is entitled to discourse~ with random people on social media.

Now I want to make something clear before I get to my next bit: the zutara fandom is not the r*ylo fandom. First off, the zutara fandom has experienced hateful shit from TPTB since early on in fandom; we don’t have a lot of support from the creators. In fact, the creators have been outwardly misogynistic and hostile to us. Okay, Dante Basco and some of the writers MIGHT ship zutara but that’s like, not institutional support. And also there is a history of SOME fan creations being really fucking racist. That shit, the “dark enemies hate sex” shit that zutara is stereotyped as being about, is almost completely purged from fandom. Not that it doesn’t exist still. And not that it shouldn’t be corrected and that we shouldn’t try to grow as a fandom. Have I seen shitty politics from zutara shippers? Yes. And I cringe every time, but like I don’t expect every person to agree with my politics. We have grown so much as a fandom - and you can tell by the fan creations. Fanworks are not about non-consensual domination anymore (like they often were in the early days of atla), they are about respect and reconciliation. And they have been for YEARS, like I’m talking s2 onward, when zutara took off. *sips wine*

‘cause here’s the thing. Fandoms are groups of people. People, as a result of centuries-old imperialist/racist constructs, are racist. We have to actively unlearn so fucking much. And any fandom is going to have its shitty elements. This is not something non-zutara shippers are exempt from. Actually, the zutara fandom has done a lot of work to make the fandom safe for poc and minors over the years and I am so proud of it. I have never seen that in a fandom. Ever. It’s not to say it’s perfect, of course not.

We did that on our own. Not because kataangers or sokka/zuko shippers were like WTF RACIST lol no because poc in the fandom were like, HEYYY before you write capture fic please learn about x, y and z, and the white parts of fandom were like, oh shit let’s get educated, this ship is about reconciliation and growth, let’s live up to that. I mean honestly from what I’ve seen from the larger atla fandom, which has a hard time dealing with the criticisms about why atla is racist (lol shocking that bryke appropriating cultures for their financial benefit would be considered racist but /s) could learn from the zutara fandom. js.

Honestly I assume most of these anons are just fuckin white asshole anti-zutara trolls who have never actually interacted with the zutara fandom. As a white person I do think that we white people have a certain level of entitlement to spaces that are not ours. Like, I don’t see poc who have had to be in more collectivist or communal settings as a result of colonialism and white supremacy invading spaces they don’t belong to in the same way that white people do. This is a LEARNED behavior, not an essence or in our DNA. Like, many white people get pissy about not being allowed by social contract to say certain slurs, but like... A) it’s not a legally enforced LAW lmfao and B) those white people only get annoyed when they realize they aren’t allowed to say it. That’s an extreme example, but I think it’s emblematic of a larger problem - because of colonialist ideology, white people feel entitled to ALL spaces and ALL things. We get annoyed when things don’t work how we feel they should. I grew up expecting things to change when my social class put pressure on those things, so it is always going to be somewhat jarring for me to know that that isn’t the case for marginalized communities.

I know some of my friends who are black have said things like, “lol cait why are you so shocked and appalled that x is the way it is, that’s how it always has been.” Not always, and not all of my friends, but like it happens. In those instances it’s like, I see something happen that is racist or fucked up, and they’re like... yeah. Obviously. But for someone who is not exposed to something, they might find it hard to swallow. When it comes to fascists and capitalists, I don’t have any sympathy left to offer - just get fucking educated or have a fist to the nose. But ships are not at that level. And like people work with political bubbles, where they often get isolated to what discourse is happening in other bubbles, fandoms and subfandoms (like ship fandoms) also exist in bubbles. (I am not saying that fascists/capitalists are soul searching in their bubbles, but they do exist in clear bubbles on and offline and that is terrifying to me; their discourse cannot be GOOD and I hate not knowing what they are plotting).

Example. I don’t interact with r*ylo unless it interacts with ME, and what I see, I don’t like. (let me be clear, I am not comparing zutara with r*ylo because they are NOT equivalent; I would not be a zutara shipper if I thought they were similar). But I don’t go into shipper tags and harass children who support r*ylo. I hate it, I really do it fucking sends me up a wall, but I only ever interact with anti-r*ylo content. and in that way, I don’t know what discourse the r*ylo fandom is doing to correct its horseshit. I only know what I see, and I see r*ylo shippers being toxic and racist.

So I hate fucking r*ylo but you don’t see me going out of my way to interact with r*ylos about their ship. I can’t begin to tell you how much I am ANTI-r*ylo. It is antithetical to everything I believe. But again, I am not going into the tags, searching for r*ylos to harass. Maybe the r*ylo fandom is working on its toxic shit, maybe it isn’t. I have no idea, and I am not going to harass r*ylos about it in their inboxes unless they come into my inbox and harass me. And by the way, even then I am not going to have private conversations with shitty people - that’s all gonna be public, bitch.

Wow... IDK if this is coherent because like I said, wine. At best, these anons are racist white people who think that they are helping the anti-racist cause by attacking people who they think are pushing racist narratives... but are not challenging their implicit biases and so are picking on the most vulnerable people, who because of essentialist garbage, they feel like are traitors of the Cause or whatever, and also are minors so they assume are incapable of fighting back.

It’s racism, my friend. I’m drunk, but it’s racism. Hopefully I don’t have much to edit in this tomorrow morning lmfao. Please tell me if anything doesn’t make sense.

#racism tw #zutara fandom #atla #fandom racism #petty fandom drama #psychoanalyzing racist anons while drinking wine #alcohol tw #anonymous #asks

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