#yes even though i know meredith and davy wrote this episode

[mittensmorgul]

Yes I do have question. How the heck did they make it to alaska so quickly???

https://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/dabb%20vs%20cars/chrono

Car continuity isn’t the show’s strong suit?

Also we don’t have any idea how quickly they actually made it there. All we know is that they’d been driving for a WHILE when we joined them in the car. I saw a post go by last night where someone googled it and discovered it was something like 57 hours to drive from Lebanon to Alaska, but we don’t even know where in Alaska they were...

that 57 hour estimate puts them at a random spot in the middle of Alaska, though, about 50 miles southwest of Fairbanks:

lol i zoomed way in on the end of that map to see if there was even a town there, and nope... even the ROAD ends before the end of that journey:

I am amused by this in a meta fashion, since Sam and Dean set out for Alaska without even a specific destination in mind. Because what Garth told them... is impossible. There IS no road between Kotzebue and Barrow Alaska. And neither of those towns are even on this zoomed-in map. Kotzebue is on the west coast of Alaska, not connected to anything else by any roads at all. Barrow is the northermost point of Alaska, also completely disconnected by any roads. It’s nearly a four hour flight between the two, with nothing between them but wilderness.

This reminds me I really need to write up something about what I believe are the very deliberate series of “continuity errors” in s15. Because I’d file this under that “well this only makes sense until you actually stop and think about it for five seconds” assumptions that s15 seems littered with. And again, my point is that it’s all deliberately skewed, because these are our hints about where Chuck is messing with the story for his own purposes.

But that’s obviously for another post... back to your actual question... >.>

It’s never stated how long Sam and Dean had been gone, driving to Alaska, and then driving around once they got there looking for the place. We don’t know how long Cas had been in Heaven, doing whatever he was doing, scoping out the Chuck/angels situation... and then when he did return, he got pulled into the Jack investigation (bless Agent Lizzo), and conceivably spent a few days on that. We also don’t know how long he and Jack were waiting at the bunker for Sam and Dean to return...

And all the while, Sam and Dean thought Cas was still in Heaven because he hadn’t called them after finding their note about Alaska, or if he did he probably didn’t get a signal because there are VAST swaths of Alaska that don’t have any cell signal at all... because again, no roads, vast wilderness, etc... and it’s highly unlikely their phones even worked at all through most of that journey...

In this context, I LOVE the parallel this creates between Sam and Dean going so far out into the wilderness where they’ve disconnected from the communication grid. Because there’s several other incidents of this exact theme in Cas’s side of the episode. Let me explain.

Cas himself had been disconnected from human cell phone service while he’d been in Heaven. Hence why Sam and Dean had to leave a note for him rather than calling him. The fact they would be in Alaska implied they would be out of cell range themselves. I love the implication that just as Cas returns to Earth, to the bunker, to communicate, Sam and Dean have left... And it’s only because one of the tangled nest of cell phones in Sam’s room rang that Cas was even there to get the lead on Jack being back... Communication is a wild meta point this season, isn’t it?

The Grigori had been surprised that Jack had been able to track them all down, specifically because the Grigori operate on a different frequency from Angel Radio. He couldn’t figure out HOW Jack was tracking them all, and had killed them all, when even Heaven supposedly couldn’t. That in itself was a direct parallel to 12.10, when Lily Sunder wanted Benjamin to call out to the rest of the angels over Angel Radio before killing him, to draw them to her so she could kill them, too. Jack had used this in the exact same way to draw out the last Grigori. But in doing that, we learned that the Grigori were on their own “radio grid,” communicating “in secret” from Heaven.

I mean, theoretically, Chuck still could’ve known all that went on with them, but would he bother? We don’t know... his laser focus has been on the Winchesters, after all, and even a warning like Jack’s killing spree prompted may have gone entirely unnoticed on this alternate frequency.

Jack himself had been hiding in the Empty, under Billie’s protection, until she deemed it “safe” to return, after Chuck went “off world” again. But do we really think Chuck is actually gone? That he isn’t still actively attempting to bring about his desired ending directly?

I mean, since 14.20 when the Shadow smiled at Jack and Billie sat him down for a talk, I’ve been assuming they needed that meeting to take place somewhere that Chuck couldn’t “overhear” their plotting. And the Empty absolutely qualifies for that. Chuck’s “cell service,” his ability to look and hear directly what’s happening in his creation, doesn’t extend to the Empty. And on Jack’s return, he specifically says he can’t use his powers lest Chuck know he’s alive again.

Interesting how these “communication issues” are being lampshaded in text by actual physical limitations and “empty places” on the map, where normal human communications via cell phone service don’t even exist.

lol i googled a cell phone coverage map of alaska, and this is just the northern half... Barrow is at the top, and the bit on the left I circled, that wee little orange blot on the tip of that spit of land, is Kotzebue... Sam and Dean were really out of their coverage area...

And for European friends who don’t get how freaking MASSIVE Alaska is... have this for handy reference:

okay... I think that’s enough to get going with...

Basically, we don’t know how long they were driving, nor how long Cas had been in Heaven. We assume once they won and left Fortuna’s bar, they were able to drive back to the bunker with all due haste and no further interruptions due to the car breaking down or running out of gas or any other meddling from Chuck’s curse... So probably about 57 hours. There’s nothing else in the episode to suggest it didn’t take that long, you know? Just because we didn’t see it happening doesn’t mean it didn’t take exactly as long as it should’ve. And honestly, not watching them drive for 57 hours straight is something I can live with :’D

#spn 15.11 #dabb vs cars #yes even though i know meredith and davy wrote this episode #using your words #even when the story itself seems determined to prevent communications #or to disguise them or force characters into alternate methods to keep in touch... #it's incredible actually... #Anonymous

[sortasirius]

what makes you think the writers want deancas? not trying to be an asshole, i'm just genuinely curious as to why you think that. i know berens' episodes are pretty heavy with subtext so i can see why you'd say that he wants it, but i'm not so sure about the rest of the writers/dabb. it seems like meghan isn't a huge fan either, given her "they twisted it so fast" tweet :/ of course she's a very new writer (think she's only writing one ep this season?) but still

OKAY this is a great question, welcome to my dissertation.

I’m going to address the end of your question first. Meghan is actually DeanCas positive, she has been for quite a long time. She actually, a few years back, posted a picture of her reading a literal book about Destiel and captioned it “writing reading” or something like that.

This whole thing just comes out of a boiling over of tensions because of how nasty fandom twitter can be. Like I said here, I think this has just gotten blown out of proportion, they shouldn’t have posted all this randomly disparaging stuff, but also like...can you blame them? The fandom is a lot, we always have been, and they’re probably also under a gag order not to talk about the finale, and are annoyed that people keep asking.

So nah, Meg is not anti Destiel.

To the first part!! So let’s take a look at the show runners since Cas has been around.

Seasons 4 and 5: Kripke

Seasons 6 and 7: Gamble

Seasons 8-11ish: Carver

Seasons 11ish-15: Dabb

So starting with Kripke. Okay, yes, I will be the first to admit that we have some pretty incredible Destiel moments in these seasons, but it’s less directly written into the plot and much more from Misha and Jensen’s uhhhh ~chemistry~. The only times it was directly written into the script was when the episode was handled by someone like Edlund (“On The Head Of A Pin,” “The End,” “My Bloody Valentine”). And you have to remember, if in season 5, there are moments here and there where you’re like huh that’s suspiciously romantic dialogue, remember that Cas took Anna’s place. Anna was supposed to be endgame for Dean, but due to a myriad of issues and Misha’s general greatness, Anna was replaced with Cas.

Onto 6 and 7. Hmmm. Gamble. 6 and 7 are my two least favorite seasons and that’s no secret, and that’s not only due to the plain old weird shit in the overall storyline, but also that homegirl killed off Cas in s7 and then Bobby like four episodes later. (Also it ALWAYS rubbed me the wrong way they couldn’t have Baby in that season lol). We still had some great DeanCas moments, but again, it wasn’t really written into the overall arc (until they had to change the end of season 7 because of tanking ratings and bring Misha back lol, anyone remember the fact that Dean kept Cas’ jacket and would randomly dream of him? Yeah.). But we still had those moments, those distinctly romantic moments, probably the best example in these two seasons is from Edlund again, specifically “The Man Who Would be King,” I wrote a little about that here.

We move onto Carver, who gave us, at this point, the most overt DeanCas season with season 8 (season gr8 is a better name imo), and this is the first time Dean and Cas’ relationship is directly written as an arc of the season.  I mean, you have everything in Purgatory, Dean “seeing” Cas everywhere, the fact that he felt so guilty that Cas stayed in Purgatory that he manipulated his own memories to think that he was the one that failed Cas, because he couldn’t comprehend that Cas would want to leave him, and let’s not forget Dean snapping Cas out of Naomi’s hold on him in “Goodbye Stranger.”  It was a very obvious shift, not enough to alert the general audience, but more than enough for most of us in fandom.

It’s also important to note that this is when Andrew stopped co writing with Loflin and started writing his own episodes (”Hunter Heroici” anyone?)  I like Loflin fine, but Dabb was able to stretch his legs a little bit more once he stopped co-writing, and we also began to see some DeanCas themes in his solo episodes.

In any case, them and their issues being a big part of the seasons continued with Carver, and Berens entered the scene, his first episode (”Heaven Can’t Wait”) is one of my favorites, with human Cas and the fanfiction gap and Dean and Cas just generally being awkward and funny and sweet.  This is Bobo’s FIRST episode, remember that.  He comes right out of the gate with it.

Also in Season 9, this is when Dean takes the Mark of Cain, and the Cas/Colette mirror is born, so obviously, Dean and Cas are the fabric of the season once again.  This is also the season where Metatron says Cas is “in love with humanity,” and then immediately refers to Dean as Humanity so uhhhh yeah.

Onto season 10, Dabb and Berens continue with their greatness (I could write pages on the DeanCas date in “The Things We Left Behind” alone).  And then we have one of the best scenes in the entire show in “The Prisoner” where the Cas/Colette mirror continues and Dean, driven by grief and pain and rage and the Mark, still doesn’t kill Cas.  He still can’t kill Cas.

Season 11 is important because it takes choice away from both Cas and Dean, and shows us, as the audience, how much losing each other takes out of them. We saw in season 10 how much losing Dean takes from Cas, but what about Cas losing Dean?  Dean loses his choice with his connection to Amara this season, and loses even more when Lucifer reveals he’s been possessing Cas, and plays on Dean’s connection to Cas like a mockery.  It’s also worth noting that, similarly to season 8, Dean breaks out of the connection with Amara when he’s worried about Cas, and that’s something that even SHE is surprised by.

But then season 12, the beginning to the Renaissance.  This is when we get the writer’s that become important for what Dean and Cas are today, and, truly, why I believe they want canon Destiel as much as we do.

This is the first season with Dabb’s writers: Davy Perez, Meredith Glynn, Steve Yockey, and of course Bobo all come in with their incredible talents and gave us episode after episode of good content.  “Lily Sunder Has Some Regrets” is probably my favorite, probably the best example of what I’m saying.  An episode where Dean is called out by an enemy directly, told to “roll the dice” on Cas’ life.  And Dean won’t, it’s not even really a hesitation.  And this comes from a character that has known Dean for ten seconds.  I also wrote more in depth about this episode here.  There are also some.....distinctly domestic details we get this season, specifically in “The Future” (written by Berens and Glynn) with the mixtape.  The most tropey of tropes mixtape.  Yeah, I’ll just leave that one here.

And then season 12 ends with Cas’ death, but also with the parallel between Sam and Dean with Jess and Cas.  Sam literally has to drag Dean away from Cas, just like Dean had to drag Sam out of his burning apartment in the pilot.  The episode drives it home in every way that it can: Dean is the one left kneeling by Cas’ body, while Sam goes to find out what is upstairs.  Dean is the one who stares at the sky, finally broken.  This isn’t a random thing, this is Dean’s whole arc, it’s the entirety of the beginning of 13.  Dean’s pain, his anguish, his anger.

Season 13 starts with them burning Cas, with Dean, who has begged God to bring him back, who has split his knuckles punching a door, standing, staring at Cas’ pyre with brokenness on his face.

I mean.....

Anyway, season 13 is where it gets interesting (well, I think all of this is interesting but I’m a writer nerd so).  So Cas comes back from the Empty in “Advanced Thanatology” written by Steve Yockey, and then a wombo combo of “Tombstone” by Davy Perez next (”Brokebacknatural” as the PR said at the time).  Listen.  This is the part that SPN crossed a line that they couldn’t come back from.  With Cas being Dean’s “big win,” the fact that Dean and Cas watch movies together, “I told you, he’s an angry sleeper.  Like a bear.” Talked about it here.

This is where, in my opinion, the network stepped in, but the damage was already done.  They had already established that Cas was Dean’s big win, that Dean’s poor coping was not due to Mary’s disappearance, but solely due to Cas, and that Dean and Cas have more married energy than anyone else.  The network had nixed blatant canon at this point, and they writing room had been pushing the boundaries of what the network would allow. 

After these episodes, we see a marked drop off of DeanCas heavy scenes.  They’re still there, still a part of the fabric of the season, but not as...obvious as it had been in early season 13.

And this continued through season 14, we’re back to scraps of Destiel scenes here and there, but to me it always felt like there was something bubbling under the surface, something distinctly unsaid in the themes of the season, even after the walk back of obvious “Dean and Cas are in love” scenes.

And then we get to season 15, which, y’all know I talk about all the time.  What’s important here is that Bobo and Glynn are both executive producers, calling more of the shots than ever before.  Additionally, it’s important to note that, though they only co write occasionally, Glynn and Berens refer to each other as “work husband” and “work wife.”  Each episode has just turned up the volume, and, not for the first time, but certainly the most obvious, Dean and Cas ARE the season.  Sure, they’re trying to beat God, they’re trying to finally find peace, defeat the final big bad, but really?  This season has been about Dean, and Dean’s relationship to Cas.

And not only do we have obvious and clear Destiel in nearly every episode, but we have episodes like “Last Call” which canonize bi!Dean (wrote about that here).

And, maybe most importantly so far, we have “The Rupture,” the breakup, and “The Trap,” Dean’s confession (both written by Berens).  And here’s the thing.  These episodes feel connected, but also feel like they’re missing something.  Beren’s last episode is 15x18, “The Truth.”  We’ve all spec’ed about what could happen in this episode, and I think *I* know what it’s leading to.  But for it to be leading to that, it means that the network has to have approved what we’ve all been waiting for years for.

Who got this change to happen?  Who got the network to change their minds?  It wasn’t us.  It was them.  I am fully convinced that Dabb and Berens quite literally put their careers on the line for Dean and Cas.  They believe in them, they’ve shown that from the beginning, but the only thing standing in the way was the network, never allowing them to take the final step. 

So, to answer your question: I think the writers want canon DeanCas because they’ve already shown us that they do.  Take a look at their episodes, at Dabb’s, at Beren’s, at Glynn’s, at Perez’s, at Yockey’s.  They’ve been telling us what’s going on with Dean and Cas for years.

Sure, I’m not in their heads, I guess I don’t know for *sure* that this has been their thought process, but if we put it all together, from the marked shift when Dabb fully took over in s12, to the change right after “Tombstone,” to the new shift, the blatantly romantic shift in season 15, what else is there?

I’ve said for a long time that we, the SPN fandom, are beyond lucky to have the writer’s that we do.  They’re all going to go on to have prolific careers and we were lucky to get them at the end of our little show.  I give them a lot of credit for what we have in the show today.

Just remember, they’ve been telling us in all of s15 who Chuck is.  He says he’s the writer, right?  But a writer who doesn’t have control of his characters?  A writer who wants to do the same ending over and over because it “works”?  That doesn’t sound like a writer, it sounds like a network exec.

They’ve been showing us what they want for years, and the way s15 is going?  I think they may have convinced the network to let us have it.

#supernatural #destiel #spn #my writing #anyway yeah i love these writers #welcome to my essay lmao #spn writers #anonymous #lilly answers

[quwarichi]

"The writers are-" not to blame, and here's why

Usually, I ignore these posts saying "the writers are so bad, blaming COVID or whatever for the finale", but today I saw a mutual reblogging one of those, and I just went "shit, I'm gonna have to say it aren't I?"

Let's settle this; the writers (sans BL) are good at their job. But that's very general, calling them the writers. Each episode of all the seasons so far has been composed by a different person, even if we do have the rotating cast of them. Season 15's writers are made of Andrew Dabb (executive producer and co-showrunner since season 12), Meredith Glynn (producer), Brad Buckner and Eugenie Ross-Leming (aka BL, executive producers), Bobo Berens (executive co-producer and story editor), Davy Perez (co-producer), Jeremy Adams, Meghan Fitzmartin, and Steve Yockey (producer).

Those are 8 writers for season 15, each in charge of 2-3 episodes or less (Meghan and Jeremy wrote one each) and that was that. I'd like to point out, though this might be just my personal opinion, that the show had made leaps and bounds in the growth of both characters and themes since Dabb took over, starting with season 12, I won't dive into that too much. Might make another post about that later.

So the process of writing a season for a show like supernatural, as far as I know as a person who doesn't work in the TV industry, goes a little something like this;

1. What is the season arc? A season arc, for those confused, is the drive of the story - the big problem they need to be solving, a threat looming over their heads constantly. There's one every season, usually paired with a deadline or a bad guy about to do bad guy things. For season 15, it was the fight for free will, at last, and the bad guy was Chuck.

2. Once they figure out the season arc, it's time to decide what they need to do to move the plot along, leaving a few key moments that must be inserted. There are also the character arcs to consider, which were especially important in the last season, to really wrap up their journey (I see you, Dabb, and your 15.10). The character arcs and the story arc usually intertwine at some point, to create motivations for the characters to act. We've seen it with season 10, season 11, season 12, and so forth.

3. And when the character and story arcs are done, the writers (8) divide and start crafting their episodes.

That's the writers, that's their jobs.

For anyone living under a rock, this season made destiel endgame part of the show's text, not the subtext. It was part of the plot, and it drove it. Two character arcs were relying on that plot, and it helped with the main story arc at the end. Bobo Berens, the mastermind behind 9.06 and so forth, wrote 15.03 (their breakup) 15.09 (their make up) 15.12 (their engagement), and finally 15.18 (the confession). Yes, Dean didn't get to say it back. Yes, killing Cas immediately after he said I love you is horrible and I hate it. Was it touching? Of course. Was it heartbreaking? Definitely. But was it Bobo's fault Dean wouldn't say I love you back? Absolutely not.

Bobo is an executive producer - an executive producer is usually the creator, writer, and showrunner of the show, meaning that he not only helps actively create the show, but he also helps write the script, and run the day-to-day production operations. He gets to do stuff most ordinary writers don't. But he answers to the network, like all other producers. And here comes the so-called villain, the one you've all been hating, but using the wrong name for:

The network.

The network producing SPN, the CW, is owned by WB, and those are a lot of acronyms, but they're important. You must realize that the writers, for the start of the season, told us exactly who's the villain. Here's an excellent article explaining why the meta-narrative is important for the show and how the TV Gods Are Watching. I'll be making a brief recounting of the article.

Chuck is the network, not the writers. He's the avatar embodying the network's push for the ending they believe would sell. The network's interested in money, not the fans. If the true ending might mean openly-queer characters and found-family of misfitted orphans, clustered together for the love they chose, not had to accept - it would mean that some people who watch the show, the demographic the network likes to think the show had most of, won't like it. Won't buy the DVD, won't watch the reruns. They also wouldn't be able to sell this to countries that are not okay with queer people, or that disapprove of the message the show would be trying to send.

Chuck is the network because he's pushing for an ending, a horrible ending, that he believes is what needs to happen next. Without the network's green light, nothing may air. The ending the writers wanted for this show, so evident in interviews and in the arc of the story, wasn't able to happen not because of lack of creativity or a big hard-on for fetishizing manpain. It was because it was the ending we wanted, and it couldn't do.

If you want more clarity, my advice is to go back to 15.04, visit the Becky and Chuck scenes - but imagine that instead of them, you're watching the network (Chuck) arguing with the writers (Becky).

The writers tried their best and crafted 18 beautiful, lovely episodes. Then another one that could've worked nicely if 20 went the original way. So don't go blaming the writers, throwing around "the writers this" and "the writers that". Blame the network. Scorn the CW, scorn WB, even. They're the ones who took our ending.

#i snapped #six months later and i'm still not over it #the writers did nothing wrong #(besides BL but we ignore that) #i just took a forty minute break of writing my fic to write this post because i am done #stop saying it was the writers they did nothing #they crafted 1518 #they did their best #spn #fuck the cw #spn writers #spn meta #chi's meta #spn season 15

[incarnateirony]

I went off on a rant to a friend about things like Gamble Era, and miscellaneous idolized past authors, and you know what, fuck it. I'm going to say it out loud. And listen, listen this is NOT going to be my normal "Whatever you like :)" post like, this is literally an accumulation of horse shit I've seen talked about in any and all lanes for years that have been driving me fucking bananas for years. Don't just read this going HAHA I HATE GAMBLE TOO and then be shocked when I slap at inexplicably favorited authors in this fandom beyond that.

------

God how can anyone genuinely like Gamble, like, literally, legitimately and 1000%, not even about her killing Cas or whatever, what kind of pure trash TV do these people intake in mass that they think Gamble was good at her job I can not emphasize enough how cripplingly disappointing the shift from S4-5 to 6-7 was I know art is in the eye of the beholder or whatever but JESUS. FUCKING. CHRIST.

Fuck constructivist theory there's a point when things are just clearly trash Benefits S7 had: Just da bros uhhhh *flips through pages* Anything else? Are dick jokes art?

Her era was overrun by plot holes you could fly boeing jets through -- and I don’t mean shit like when fandom goddamn made up in their own damn head about an angelreaper retcon even though the reaper in the same episode they said was a retcon said the deadass opposite of what everybody fucking wound themselves up about, just deadass yawning voids -- it had unstable mechanics on previously established species shit, the villain plot was one giant monster of the week that tried desperately to go back to how they handled shit like Azazel as a threat but miserably failed, the monster had the dumbest weakness possible, the characters themselves were unstable in their characterizations and not even in that general "I don't like what the show is doing with them" but episode to episode Sam flipping from ripping Dean with laughter over gay jokes to woke-sounding sentiments

The cinematic style was gone and just vacant, it was neither the overexposed horror desaturated film nor the vivid fantasy of Carver, it just sat there like an unpolished lump

While later seasons also lost the classic rock vibe for budget reasons, that too disappeared in her era so we had no film energy, no story energy, no character energy, no villain energy, no structure energy, and we didn't even have the fucking cool tunez but we had dicks allergic to windex

It even lacked the elements that gave Kripke era value

Dusty americana died, all we had left was teenage girl fuckin emo sad boi drama And even that was miserably piss poor

I have never seen such a visionless fucking disaster successfully air an entire season on my fucking TV

I will never, EVER be able to outline what a fucking disappointment it was to go from S4-5 level show maturation into this negative embarrassment by season 7.

S6 Kripke was still around to some extent and that's the only reason I can deduce, S7 minded, there was any substance to it, even if her writing and editing crew at the time were a goddamn tire fire. And then people turn around and yell feminism if you criticise the giant fucking blazing slag heap that was her era and blame anyone and everyone but her and here you FUCKING go and she does half the shit all over again in the Magicians

(The friend replied: "The season only works in reverse, which is a crime on serialised TV (and just bad screenwriting)." )

That's just it though, it's like S7 we were suddenly back to fucking episodical TV like S1-2 because enough fuckbats yelled about Good Old Days. Only instead of ʷĤε𝕣є'𝓼 đα𝒹 or 𝐓Ħⓔ DεᗰＯᶰ 卄𝓐ｓ Ƥl𝓐𝓝Ş ℱⓞｒ Ⓜ𝔢 it was   ħ𝔞ⓗａ 𝓓ＩＣ𝐤ᔕ  🍆

I mean fucking sure this show started targeting late teenage women but Kripke had started maturing it forward and then Gamble fucking rolls along and it's like she's writing for 13 year old boys suddenly

Well I say that's what she seemed to be writing for but at the time the marketing was gross objectification going LOOK PRETTY BOYS WITH GUNS and that was it, that was the substance of what they gave a shit about and apparently the kind of demographic they thought constituted the sum of the SPN audience which, go get fucked guys, seriously. No fucking wonder the ratings got gouged in half over the course of a year. And fandom yells BUT FRIDAY DEATH SLOT but go sit and spin, S6 was friday deathslot too but before Kripke disappeared as the last thread holding SOME kind of cohesive value in the piece together in S6, that went to shitfuckhell in a handbag at light speed. People migrated to SPN Fridays S6 just fine. They LEFT season 7 and then people plug their ears if they don’t like that. And Carver had to fight all S8 to get it back, /but succeeded, and then-some./ 

oh and lemme head off fandom dumbfuck argument #72 about “well Dabb’s ratings are lower than Gamble’s were so he sucks and ruined it worse” go take your fucking ass and google “national primetime ratings decline” and enjoy exploring the last fucking 70 years of TV history. Pointing out a show crashes within a year because of massive failure is not the same as people being intentionally fucking daft sods to the TV universe’s decline over the last decade so like, don’t. Don’t be that person. Because you’re still embarrassingly wrong.

(The friend replied: "That's why I don't get why people care about what the vocal minority have to say. They *already* got what they wanted. It crashed and burned. Nobody in their right mind in corporate world is gonna be like, let's try that again, let's throw more money into that burning pit That's just not happening. Gay angels or no, it just ain't." )

I mean that should have been obvious when 1. Carver brought back Cas and pretty much immediately promoted him to Regular 2. Misha then got promoted to lead credits in S12, no matter what circles of intentional, willful ignorance fandom argues about what the credits mean for petty piss fights

"LOL & MEANS HE'S LESS IMPORTANT" Shut the fuck up and sit down you basement dwelling shitlord, go watch the A-Team, tell me how Mr T is the least important character

Also unpopular fuckin opinion Robbie Thompson and Ben Edlund are not That Great. Compared to what they were SURROUNDED with they were exceptional but Berens and Yockey could run circles around them both. They just happened to give fandom shit they liked during dark times so it made them fun. Robbie Thompson and Ben Edlund are basically the baseline value of our current writing team on random names. Give me Robbie Thompson and give me Davy Perez and I see no fucking difference. People compare Edlund to Yockey because of certain shit he pulled off but like, no? If there WAS a comparison it’d be like, Meredith, and even then I can’t see any way Edlund is substantially better than Meredith but could list the other in reverse?

But if we're talking about being able to write pieces with more than 1 or 2 layers of impact I'm sorry, it's rose colored glasses that makes people idolize them

Like if people seriously objectively fucking sat and reviewed the methodology and substance of their past idol authors to the demonstratable level of the current crew where I am DEAD ASS HAVING DISCOURSE WITH THE EXEC PRODUCER ABOUT BAUDRILLARDIAN CONCEPTS AND DELILLO in the middle of a hypercomplex postmodern two-directional commentary piece on some scaffolding of sociopolitical representation commentary that SAILS past the level the ‘activists’ in this fandom think about, literally, what people like is Gay Shit They Got lobbed at them or shiny visuals. And you know what, whatever, sure, like what you like IDGAF but don't sit here like Thompson was some fucking Shakespeare. No, your fucking "meta" you -- you, in any lane, anyone, any ship, anywhere, ever -- wrote by COMPLETELY randomly associating whatever storyline you could staple on to try to pretend the text was doing what you want at the time -- is not the same as author intent and actual weight and merit to the cohesive structure of what they build.

YES YES I KNOW, Death of the Author, someone just popped that up in their head, like the ten thousand posts I've made over the last 209349 years addressing how people abusive the fuck out of the term and that's fine, interpret shit however you wanna make it do jumping jacks but don't sit here entering the time you attached Little Bo Peep as some sort of intrinsic value to Dean trying to find Sam in 1492 and act like that's some deep critical shit the authors thoughtfully laced into the piece, these are not the same fucking conversation.

Big hollow voids of statements doesn’t make a better author, it makes you bust your ass harder to actually give any sort of consequential meaning to the piece, and that has nothing to do with the quality of the author or text themselves, that has to do with your interpretation in a piece devoid of genuine thematic subtext so people desperately try to bobby pin some bullshit together. Which also is probably why this fandom can’t tell the difference between coding, interpretation, subtext, and text for their fucking life anymore.

Protip the entire goddamn writing room is pouring that gay shit in your cup that's been triple brewed above Robbie or Edlund’s pots and people are still complaining it isn't enough

Another point that drives me up a wall, "LAZARUS RISING IS THE BEST EPISODE EVER" okay like lmaooooo what the fuck are you smoking Was it impressive as fuck at the time yes it was. But again, fucking perspective. I literally went back and watched it like a month ago and I realized it was a fucking void of content compared to our modern writing, it just had one of the most impressive entrances, it DID have good directing (YES MANNERS WAS GOOD, NO DISRESPECT), and it introduced a character everybody loved. Dean was still a halfass caricature

You wanna know why everybody made that shit gay right away Because there was no fucking substance around it it was a wallpaper of a cool looking episode that was otherwise blank space to run around in on dialogue they should have thought to construct better if they didn't want it to be gay

And sure since then the author room has picked up the big gay ball and started actually turning it into some shit which, great, but this is yet again a matter of structure and intent versus throwing rotten pasta at the wall and seeing if the mold makes it stick. I don't care if you have a vegan recipe that converts the fucking mold on the pasta into a healthy sauce base that isn't what it was thrown at the wall like, and no amount of complimenting the original chef's moldy pasta means it was some tasty shit before you added 10,000 ingredients they never fucking thought about or at least a second chef came along and figure out what to do with the pile of goo.

Fandom would stop being this miserable fucking putrid stinkhole if people would collectively apply some goddamn perspective to the content they argue about before even bothering to engage with uwustiel/cest dot tumblr dot com in irrelevant argument #9238428934 they use to fence off whether they should enjoy the content or try to explore it for its value or not because there is NO. MORE. PERSPECTIVE.

YOU KNOW WHAT? IT’S FINE TO EVEN ADMIT YOU LIKED THINKY-FREE TV, THAT’S FINE, THAT’S YOUR RIGHT.

But don’t SIT here acting like a lot of these former train wrecks were “better authors” or somehow objectively “better content.” No like, you like not thinking about shit that much and staring at pretty boys or whatever, good on you, but you literally like, objectively, some of the shit I’ve seen go down is like genuinely trying to compare a toddler’s fridge art to a Vasarely and hold them both up in front of people who do art for a living. They ain’t gonna shit on the kid’s fridge art, but they’re gonna go “awwwww she’s gonna grow up to be a great artist!” before breaking down on Vasarely’s vector illusion shit, sorry, that’s just how it be. I’m sure the kid had some sort of vision to drawing the triangle over the square that kinda looks like a house but the hypercomplex thought processes simply aren’t there. 

Just people STUCK in weird idolization of shit that is so far past irrelevant to the current piece in play and fighting to win arguments while trying to convince themselves they're right and secretly dreading how titanically failboat wrong they are ignoring the sound of the glacier having ripped through their hulls SEASONS ago. The ice water has already leaked onto the fucking DECK and people are still arguing about completely ridiculous shit or fancying things that were 1/10th of the value of the current content they're claiming isn't good or enough or valid compared to the shallow specters that birthed them out of old aeons. 

Dead-ASS Kripke picked shit because it “sounded cool.” I’m sorry if there weren’t some model guys fandom wanted to hump everybody would be making fun of the fedora-tipping mindset that probably is where the fucking trenchcoat came from and may have debated giving Cas -- sorry, “CASS” because “COOL” -- katanas. But sure. Way, way deeper and more intricate than the Jungian intertextual post modern piece that’s so tightly knit it’s making fandom unwittingly comment on themselves.

I thought people grew out of that shit when they were like 16 unless they were incels

(My spidey senses detected someone unironically preparing to inform me about stealing borrowing the imagery from Constantine on reflex, because you know, that’s some peak intertext right there.)

Dead ASS that writing logic is that motherfucker that wanders into your freeform RP server with Spawn knockoff miasma chainsaw arms under his leather trenchcoat shooting twin Deagles with a vague story of wanting to face his demon overlord father that’s written like a looney tunes villain, in the middle of you cowriting with your lit-savvy friends trying to make a fun fantasy adaptation rendering fascism and corporate america and then he gets upset when nobody wants him to shit lightning -- /fight me/.

SERIOUSLY FOLKS. WANNA ENJOY THE SHOW AGAIN? GET SOME PERSPECTIVE. LET GO OF FETISHIZING WEIRD WARPED MEMORIES AND LINES OF ARGUMENT INSIDE YOUR OWN HEADS ISTG IT'LL HELP.

The day I find an argument that makes season 7 legit good TV rather than, at very best, “fun junk TV I had a cool ride on”, that does NOT involve evoking arguments distinctly born out of petty shipping culture arguments and/or (generally the same) attaching their own shit with a stapler to MAKE it have some sort of meaning at the time it was airing (rather than later showrunners making it add up to something), I’ll eat my fucking arm.

𝓯𝓾𝓬𝓴. Carver era had already gone through dramatic changes that deepend the scope of the show and even then, 15.09 Bobo’s The Trap held more ACTUAL commentary on this fandom than Thompson’s Fanfiction episode did as a supposed fandom-commentary episode much LESS 15.04 as an actual meta framed episode. Fanfiction was like 4 years behind and completely fucking unplugged, whereas the base of the show itself is more integrated now in these dynamics than any attempt at meta episodes back then were.

old days it took one goddamn episode of dreaming for people to 1. start talking about Freud and 2. pretend the whole everything after that was some Freudian masterpiece even when, if it were, it would have been an entire avalanche of dropped balls. But two seasons of direct citations and literal manifest avatar-bodies of Jungian psychology elements and it’s hard to pull more than a peep out of the fandom about it because they’re too busy yelling about tulpas or sirens from before most of the people around here hit puberty.

𝓕 𝓤 𝓒 𝓚

furthermore why does anyone that idolize season 7 for what they think fits their bill think season 15 is gonna end how they want when they’ve been taking the piss out of season 7 over and over and over and over again IN THE TEXT as being dumb as SHIT

𝕀ℕ 𝕋ℍ𝔼 𝔽𝕌ℂ𝕂𝕀ℕ𝔾 𝕋𝔼𝕏𝕋

WHY SET YOURSELF UP FOR DISAPPOINTMENT

TO WIN TEMPORARY ARGUMENTS? THAT YOU’RE ACTUALLY LOSING FROM START TO FINISH?

actually you know what

rolling back to the whole “empty/subtextless stuff making people bust their ass” seems to be what you miss. Saying, “I miss empty, shallow, shitty writing” doesn’t really sound as good though so we change “what I like” into “this is talentless trash” it postures better, but it seems to be the people who have objectively fucking refused core tenets the show has evolved over the last 7 years, most explicitly the last 3-4, and absolutely refused to soak them in the form they deliver in. And they’re mad. Because it isn’t hollow. They can’t run around in fucking blank space and plug absolute horse shit into the voids and then posture like they’re supreme in this noncommital wasteland. Because everything’s built out and structured in and loud as fuck and people are debating the actual installed and even dogmatically cited work of philosophers driving the ideology of the show now and they can’t get away from it, and/or actually have to pay attention to the whole show and think about it all as a picture instead of the parts they want, so it’s “bad.”

I just sensed like 50 readers shoving their foot into that shoe. Good.

Jesus christ I’m pretty sure that’s what it is in hindsight after yelling all of this. These characters can’t be used as sock puppets anymore that people can win bullshit arguments unless they literally delete the entire principle of the modern show -- and this goes for MULTIPLE lanes really, each in their own way -- so now it’s “bad.” And that’s just not how this works.

#supernatural #spn #rant #vent #mildew

[amwritingmeta]

14x05 First Impressions

I love Maggie!! Poor Maggie! :/

Sam as uber-leader! Here I thought it would be a gradual process but he’s organised and clever and innovative and concerned and delegating like a fucking pro! Hell yes! How long has he been thinking about this? About the good they could do if they started working together in this way, and pre-planned and went in strategically? The strategy is making me salivate!! Go Sammy go!

Oh Dean!! He’s out and moving around the bunker and taking the backseat. Shiversss! Love that they’re working together too. Feels like they’re extremely on equal terms atm. Shiversss!

I love these new fake identities they get to strap on. Insurance, historic society. Keep going, please. Set up for hilarity because I really really really would love for an actual reason for Dean and Cas to pose as... colleagues...

Bobby CAP Singer and Mary TRENCH Winchester. This cap and the clear Dean/Cas mirror. Hmh. @dimples-of-discontent tagged me in a post yesterday and I’ve yet to read it because I’m only now getting to watch the ep, but I saw the title. That Dean is a sleeper agent for Michael. Intriguing.

Sasha. Alright, I always love it when characters aren’t just immediately on board. :P

This case ain’t a milk run! :P I’d love that Milk Run ep that Jared pitched! XD

Bobby!!! Noooooo! SAM’S FACE!

Oh Sam! Oh his self-doubt. Oh god. Yaaaaaaassssss!! Mary Winchester! It is what he was born to do! God I love Mary!! Oh.

Oh my God.

Hahahah hahahahahha MEREDITH GLYNN!! Oh my god the Dean/Cas mirror gets even stronger holy fuck. This is... is this actual... wait is this foreshadowing for... Okay, no. Horses held. Oh they are HELD, my peeps.

Oh the talk about John. I spent all day yesterday on Davy meta and John is part of that so this was nice af to hear, because yes of course, John changed after Mary died. And now we know that she knows he did. Leaps and bounds with the missing info here!! Gah!

Oh god Sam!! Don’t kill yourself. It makes sense though. He worries about others more than himself and, of course, takes every mistake squarely on his own shoulders. Oh bub gotta learn to delegate the responsibility along with those tasks!! This is good and needed room for growth!

Hunters. ://

Hehe dusty!Dean. (why is it always so hot?)

Oh freaky with the dark room and the scare!

Lets it’s dinner go AWOL. Oh my god Sasha’s face!! XD

Callback! Fred Jones!! Epicsode! Love that Sam puts it together.

Ohhhhhh now we get to the meat of it! Textbook workoholic with textbook narcissistic tendencies. Sounds familiar to me. :D

Oh my god I see patterns. But I gotta post the Davy meta first. *tomorrow*

Dads. Dad correlations. My head is exploding. Exploooooooooodiiiiiiiing. No sorries. Worship idealisation aaaaahhhhhhh MEREDITH!!!!! Aaaaahahhahahhahahhah!!!!

LET IT GO!!! Jesus DEAN!!

Yeah you do. You DO TRY!! Oh my FUCKING GOD!!!

MAGGIE!

Oh Sam. :’)

More daddy issues! A soldier beating up his father, who is dressed as Michael, stabbing him with an angel blade and they crusified him oh my good lord what is haaaaaaaappeniiiiing this narrative is so pretty!! Oh wow oh WOW OH MY GOD IS THIS NOT FORESHADOWING THEN I DO NOT KNOW WHAT IS.

But.

It’s almost too obvious. >.> Exactly what we want. >.> Pretty much what we expect... Hmmmmmmmh. I smell red herring possibilities. They’ll plant this obvious foreshadowing while planting something subtler that will make just as much sense... Then again, maybe they won’t and we’ll get Dean breaking free because Cas’ life is threatened. Wouldn’t that be something???

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!! A callback to Hunteri Heroici AND What Is and What Should Never Be this episode?? I mean holy hell with the feels already and THIS IS AMAZING!!

Oh Michael! The hunter of the hunters.

Oh wow. Oh WOW.

Tell him what’s in his head.

Yessssss.

Oh god PLEASE let Michael still be in there. Let him be hiding or what you’d call it in that damn scar. Like it shields him somehow so Cas can’t sense him. Honestly I WANT it so bad. Where the hell did he go?? Who is he possessing? He let his sword go?? The thing that makes him omnipotent?? The fact that we still don’t know makes me narrow my eyes Cas style. Also the most strategic thing Michael can do? Infiltrate the fucking nervous system of the group he’s attacking! Are we getting a Tyler Durden moment when Dean realises he’s losing hours when he’s off as Michael doling out orders and souping up monsters with angel juice?????

Huuuuuuuh?????

(Fight Club is my deserted island movie)

Anyway. Maybe we’ll get an answer soon!

Oh Dean!! Supportive brother!!!

“You can talk to me.” :’)

Damn, Bobby is a good John mirror and there are just... threads for the tapestry and ohhhhh. I like this. Condemn John’s behaviour, but not the man behind it. There was so much good there too but circumstances brought out a side to him that did what it had to. And I’m not excusing the abuse btw. I wrote about all this yesterday so will have thorough thoughts up tomorrow!!

Oh God. This is what I... Cas needing to be the one to say something because he’s the one who uses his words. And deep down Dean is so scared and feels more than ever that he doesn’t deserve it.

Bobby and Sam!! Yes Bobby!

Aw they’re going to heal.

BE HAPPY!!!!!!!!!

Agsgsgdhsgagsghdhdhhsgagfagsgdhdhshagsggsgsdhdhdhdhdhdhshshsggafafaghdjfj

FUCKING DEAD!!!!!!

GARTH!!!!!!!!

Starting to feel like myself again. Almost. >.>

Dean needs a reason to EXPEL Michael!! Instead of like with Cas, who had Lucifer ripped out of him and was left adrift and still suffering that depression, we have a Dean who is now trying to let go of the past and keeps getting confronted by echoes of his past and once he CAN let go, then he’ll be strong enough to see through Michael toxic masculinity representative and Dean will TRUST THAT HE IS STRONG ENOUGH!! He’s drowning in his own self-doubt and self-blame ffs. Aaaaaahhhhhhh!! Please please please please.

And once expelled Michael won’t be as powerful. Come on come on let him still be in Dean!! It’s all about the inner workings of Dean Winchester and his internal struggles and I’m just... I’m just...

THIS SEASON IS SMASHING IT!!

“Be happy.”

*cries in a corner in all the corners in the fourteen corners of the fourteen circles of all things right and good in this world*

#spn 14x05 #first impressions #spn s14 spoilers #meredith glynn