#wyll meta

[prettyboykatsuki]

wyll, in my opinion, gets the standard fare treatment for characters that are unequivocally good. i.e. people think he's boring and uninteresting. standard fare might be kind actually given the level of racism and unexplained slander (which is often just more thinly veiled racism). his reputation about being boring is not helped by the very blatant neglect of his storyline post his rewrite and release. as a wyll enjoyer i am hyperaware of the sorry state of his current story in all three acts

despite all of that and the glaring flaws - i still believe that wylls storyline is worth of being engaged with and explored.

one of the reasons (not the most major one, but one) i think wyll experiences so much neglect as a companion stems from a wider idea that "goodness" is always the uncomplicated, easy choice.

it's something i see a lot. wyll is boring because of his archetype as a princely and universally righteous guy. and this is interesting, because it always seems to functions under the assumption that wylls moral character is innate. that his heroic and righteous actions are in some capacity, uncomplicated.

uniquely among the male origin companions, through the course of wylls story - there is never a point in which he is at risk of making a truly 'bad' choice. both gale and astarions story have them at risk of making choices that are ultimately bad for them and others (especially tav when each character is romanced). gales godhood and astarions ascension are their in game moral failings. they are the result of having not broke the cycle and are 'bad' choices for the individual character.

wylls main choice is however his pact and the choice to break that pact. notably - wyll is never at risk of making a bad choice, only a selfish one.

from the critique i see of wyll - it seems like this is the element of him people find most egregious. he's too smooth, not rugged enough, not gritty enough. but i don't think wyll's character needs grit, necessarily.

if you take any time to dissect wyll at all, based on dialogue and character interaction, many of his choices put himself at the forefront of sacrifice. the game strips wyll of a lot of agency, but wyll also always abides by and sticks to his core belief. so often towards his own detriment.

not only does wyll bear the consequence of being turned into a devil (stripping him of the last remaining shred of identity he's ever had and one of the most important things in his life), he bore the burden of being banished when he made his pact, and was willing to do the same for the sake of his father when he is taken to moonrise.

and unlike gale (who i adore, to be clear) who's concept of self-sacrifice stems mostly from a low self-worth - the belief that dying is the best he can do - wyll truly views that it's better him than them.

wyll does not think twice about allowing himself to be the one to take the fall. he can play any part, take any role, even when these choices haunt him so obviously. wyll claims that he forgives his father, but opens up to you about fearing his feelings of missing him are one-sided. he believes that making his pact was the right choice, the one he would make again - but doesn't deny the obvious pain and solace that came along with being a wandering traveler and banished son.

wylls goodness is so deliberate. he is so staunch in upholding and acting on his beliefs that it is always narrative to his own detriment. when you view wyll like this , and view his choices with regards this character attribute, it is imo very hard to hate him.

wyll's goodness is his double edged sword. it makes him heroic, brave, fearless. and it makes him scared, uncertain and lonely. again, the story itself is bare bones and i understand that - but it is so very beautiful to me thinking of him and tav or just his general romance.

as wylls romance partner, encouraging wyll to break his pact is as tragic as it very beautiful. tav is wylls one selfish thing. one of the only reasons that would move him to not give himself up. one of the only reasons he is okay with forgoing his beliefs. he loves tav enough to break his own oaths, and make choices for himself and no one else. not as the blade, or as a ravengard - but just as wyll.

and that aspect of him is in my opinion, enforced, by the mindflayer tav ending. in which wylls monster-hunting and morals are made exceptions with / for tav. my enjoyment of hero corruption might be speaking for me, but i digress.

in every way though - i truly love wyll as a character. and while im well aware of the critical flaws in his in game story state, i think it's both unfortunate and unfair that people call him boring. to me he is anything but

#aristotle.txt #wyll ravengard #bg3 #wyll meta #bg3 wyll #wyll x tav #he is so love of my life coded #this is my experience as a deku defending and lover speaking for me i fear

[wormskullsblogging]

an interesting parallel (& inversion) between Astarion and Wyll:

Wyll's humanity & soul is imperilled by him making selfless choices and can only be saved through a selfish decision, while Astarion's humanity (humanoidity?) & soul is imperilled by him making selfish choices and can only be saved through a selfless decision.

note: i'm using selfishness/selflessness as a tool -- the choices faced by Wyll & Astarion are too complicated to perfectly fit into that dichotomy, but i think it's the best for illustrating a comparison. i'm also not attaching any moral judgement to the dichotomy.

Wyll entered into a contract with Mizora and became a warlock in order to save Baldur's Gate from destruction, with no one but him knowing of this heroic deed. the only thing he gained from selling his soul was saving people; this is understood in the game as a selfless choice, even if potentially a foolish or bad one. even when he kills people on Mizora's behest, he doesn't (or at least believe he doesn't) target innocents. when he is faced with killing an innocent (Karlach) he refuses, and in turn loses his humanity, becoming a (pseudo-)devil; another selfless choice.

throughout the game, he constantly has the threat of losing even more of his humanity and his soul hanging over his head, with Mizora being able to drag his soul to the Hells (completely his transformation into a devil) as punishment. the only way to free him of his contract--rather than simply breaking it, which would cost him his soul & humanity--is to accept Mizora's ultimatum and sacrifice Wyll's father. this is a selfish choice (though not necessarily a foolish or bad one). in essence: Wyll entered into his contract, putting his soul and humanity at risk, through a selfless choice, and can only leave it, preserving his soul and humanity, through a selfish choice.

Astarion, meanwhile, becomes a vampire spawn through (at least comparatively) a selfish choice: choosing to live (or, rather, not die). (there's also potentially him being a corrupt magistrate, but that's mostly speculation so i'll leave that to one side). whether Cazador would have respected the choice to die is uncertain (personally, i'd place my bets on no), but it is important for this parallel that 'saving' Astarion was framed as an 'offer', one that Astarion accepted. (Wyll and Astarion also share in their original choice, the one that gave them their warlockhood and vampirehood, not being much of a choice at all). unlike Wyll, he had far less free will in his relationship with Cazador and when he killed, he was forced to target primarily innocents. the moment he did gain free will, from the tadpole, he immediately begins prioritising himself again; he acts in his own interests, and approves of selfish decisions.

as a vampire spawn, like Wyll with his warlockhood & (pseudo-)devilhood, he straddles the line between possessing his soul and being soulless, between being humanoid and being undead. and like Wyll, the story provides the possibility of crossing that line, losing his soul and human(oid)ity in the process. unlike Wyll, he wants to step across the line not to save innocents but to gain power (and, within his view of the world, safety). it is only by convincing him to make the selfless choice--by not sacrificing 7000 souls, at the cost of losing his ability to walk in the sun and the 'safety' that comes with power--that he remains in possession of his soul and his remaining human(oid)ity.

so, effectively, Astrarion's soul is endangered by his selfish decisions and can only be saved by a selfless choice, while Wyll's soul is endangered through his selfless decisions and can only be saved by a selfish one. they are inversions and i think that's really interesting, that bg3 can explore the nuances of prioritising yourself vs others through the parallels between their characters (and in the rest of the cast as well).

#bg3 #baldur's gate 3 #wyll #astarion #bg3 meta #bg3 anaysis #wyll meta #astarion meta #wyll analysis #astarion analysis #accidently posted without factchecking so i deleted it. but then the factchecking confirmed my memory was right so

[rebelontherocks]

wyll is engels coded in ways that only make sense to me and my twisted mind but this reverberates through all my fics and my characterization of him

#i don't mean that he would be a revolutionary in this specific fantasy setting #i mean the particular way in which engels lost his mind at the working conditions in his father's factory #how the unfairness ate at him and how he hated the knowledge that the only thing he could do was inherit the goddamn factory #give the employees better pay and decent working conditions but in the great scheme of things that solved nothing #but at this point that was the only material change he could enact even though he hated the class position in which it placed him #how his father despised him for this #how he used the money to finance communist movements (obviously he supported marx his whole life old man yaoi 🥹) #anyway this is how i see wyll duke #it's not that he wants to be in that position but it's that he realizes it's what he needs to do to help the most people possible #it's a sacrifice all the same #but he's no longer pursuing an individualist 'hero' fantasy #he has become a materialist #i told you i was sick in the head #wyll meta

[ansburg]

Now, perhaps we might try a more — intimate style.

#baldur's gate 3 #bg3 spoilers #bg3 #bg3 astarion #bg3 wyll #wyll ravengard #astarion ancunin #bg3edit #wyllstarion #peak bi x pan solidarity btw #idk what their ship name is but. making this set converted me #(im still a wyll x karlach truther but i have a meta in my brain abt these two Right Now)

[passionesolja]

So lemme get this straight, they make a game called Baldur’s Gate 3, give us a companion who’s the son of a Council of Four Duke of the city of Baldur’s Gate and then underwrite him and neglect his character so badly that he’s hardly a companion at this point.

Larian, yall re-wrote Wyll, if y’all couldn’t handle story implications of having a character like this, y’all shouldn’t have went this direction. Wyll’s questline being as bad as it is should make the game lose an entire point. Idgaf. Wyll’s questline should be the one that’s most important.

This is like having a game named after NYC, having a companion being the son of a mayor and police chief, and that plot line and character playing almost zero role in the overall story.

This shit really is shameful

#wyll ravengard #bg3 wyll #wyll #bg3 #baldurs gate 3 #baldur's gate 3 #baldur's gate iii #bg3 meta #bg3 critical #larian critical

[geezmarty]

we all know that wyllstarion goes crazy as hell but you really have to think about it from Wyll’s perspective. You’re the most fairy tale brained man on earth whose life is a continued sequence of romantic and heroic ideals set up to fail. You want to be a heroic duke and save your city but wind up making a pact with a devil. You want to use that pact for good and are almost (or straight up) tricked into killing an innocent. You go on the most princely quest of all to ask a dragon for his help and we all know how that ends. And then in comes Astarion jangling like the most weaselly evil court advisor, a vampire no less and you’re like actually fuck it this slippery eel is where it’s AT. and this time you actually do get a happy ending with it. it goes crrrrazyyyy

#sorry I log in once a month to make a yaoi text post sometimes it is what it is #wyllstarion #im also thinking about wyll 24/7 half of this post is directly lifted from the 8k meta doc I’m never posting. anyway #txt #bg3 spoilers #I guess? vaguely

[kingthunder]

I saw a few of those "bg3 characters driving a car" headcanons and decided to do one myself for fun.

Lae'zel: She learned how to drive on the opposite side of the road from everyone else and her instincts are all wrong for her current location, but back home she's an excellent driver with a spotless driving record. She actually follows the service schedule in the car manual. She gets incensed at people who don't maintain their vehicle properly or who disobey road rules. Her car is immaculately clean. She would love to speed a motorcycle down one of those desert highways with no speed limit, but she's never gotten the opportunity and knows it's too reckless besides. But she wants to.

Karlach: She's had a motorcycle for ages and is a skilled if aggressive driver. However, she only recently learned how to drive a car. She is very enthusiastic about it and always volunteers to drive even though she's not very good yet. She's one of those people that do driving "pranks" like swerving back and forth to make people shriek/laugh, or doing "3, 2, 1 BLASTOFF" and gunning it. Could easily be provoked into an impromptu street race. Drives way too far on empty or with the check engine light on.

Shadowheart: Drives stick so that no one else can drive her car. It's a beat up old station wagon with a busted tail light and looks like shit on the outside, but inside she turned it into a goth mobile with like black velvet seat covers and stuff. She named the car but she won't tell you what. She has an air freshener hanging from the rear view mirror that smells like night orchids. She's a perfectly good boring driver with nothing to note about it UNTIL one day a cop tries to pull her over for her busted tail light and she hits the gas and pulls out all these street racing moves that you had no idea she was capable of and shakes the cop. She'll let you pick the music but if she doesn't like it her silent disapproval is so withering that you voluntarily change it to something she does like.

Astarion: Never got a driver's license and isn't about to get one now. Passenger princess who likes to control the radio but his taste in music sucks. He makes funny mean comments about other drivers and pedestrians. He'll complain if you ask him to fill the gas tank but he'll do it; you're paying for it, though. Actually pretty fun to go on a road trip with because he doesn't care about stuff like "making good time" and he's up for stopping anywhere that looks like it might be entertaining.

Gale: Never got a driver's license because he was always too busy with his studies to care and his mom drove him around and/or did all his errands for him anyway. He's real good at maps though and likes to be helpful by being the navigator. He's the smartest man in the world but he's completely stymied by a gas pump; you're better off pumping the gas yourself and sending him into the gas station for snacks. He always manages to conjure a full meal out of convenience food, somehow, and he's really good at feeding you while you drive.

Wyll: He saved up and bought his own fixer-upper car after getting kicked out of the house as a teenager. Good driver in general. People always think he would make a good designated driver, but actually he likes drinking socially and will politely decline requests to be the DD unless there's no one else available. Sometimes when he's having a bad day he blasts music really loud and finds a deserted area to just fuckin tear ass down as fast as he can go (he'll only do this alone and doesn't tell anyone about it). Never lets you pay for gas even if you offer. Will pick up hitchhikers.

Halsin: Has been driving the same car since 1973. Drives that specific car really well. If you gave him a modern car he would have no idea what anything on the dashboard does. Honestly, he prefers to walk or bike anyway.

Jaheira: Has a fuck-off huge SUV full of empty cans and wrappers from her kids. Absolute maniac of a driver who tailgates and speeds with no regard for road signs or lane markings. She is going to GET where she is GOING and gods help you if you get in the way.

Minsc: Failed the driving test three times and just gets rides from Jaheira. This does not bother him in the slightest. He tells you that Boo can drive vehicles you've never even heard of.

Minthara: Has run someone over on purpose.

#bg3 #bg3 headcanons #bg3 party #do i need to tag all these idiots #lae'zel #karlach #shadowheart #astarion #gale #gale dekarios #wyll #wyll ravengard #halsin #jaheira #minsc and boo #minthara #does this count as #bg3 meta #lol #raphael doesn't drive he has a chauffeur #the chauffeur is haarlep who was paid by mephistopheles to drive his dumb shit kid around and pretend like he's not getting paid

[inaconstantstateofchange]

BG3 Narrative Changes Post-Full Release

An update on the project I have been working on over the past weeks, to compile a record of all the narrative changes Larian has made to Baldur's Gate 3 post-Full Release — particularly those changes that have affected characterization. There are many of these changes that are not common knowledge, even among dedicated fans, simply due to the size of the game and the varied narrative pathways one can take.

As stated in my original post, this is a neutral project not meant to be either inherently supportive or critical of said changes, but merely to act as a record and reference for those who would like to be aware of them. Particularly with new fans always entering the fandom, I want them to be able to understand aspects of the story that are no longer present in the game, but might still be referenced and impactful to fandom discussions.

I will continue to update the log as I receive new submissions via the report form, and have the opportunity to verify to the best of my ability that the material in question was truly changed, as opposed to potentially bugged in some playthroughs, etc. If you are aware of any changes that you do not see on the spreadsheet, please submit a report form, as I am only one person, and cannot happen across all of the potential changes – especially with so many unannounced – on my own.

#as always if you have any questions or comments i would be happy to hear them #and would be very grateful for any help in spreading this around #voidling speaks #bg3 #fandom #larian #baldur's gate 3 #astarion #halsin #wyll ravenguard #bg3 raphael #gale dekarios #enver gortash #meta #resource #larian critical #<- for archival purposes (as stated above - not intended as inherently critical) #bg3 spoilers

[vorestarr]

so i noticed when playing the epilogue that illithid Tav wants to eat brains, but the specific part of the brain they want to eat depends on the character, so i looked through the parsed dialogue and compiled all of them!

which part of each brain a mindflayer Tav would savor:

Astarion: "Astarion's sweet brain may be less wrinkled than the rest, but you hunger for its teasing cells. His parietal lobe - which controls his sense of touch - will be an aphrodisiac in your maw."

Gale*: "You would save his temporal lobe for last, if you were to eat Gale. Language. Learning. Memory. He must have quite the fine example."

Halsin: "Every time Halsin speaks of balance, your thoughts cannot behave. You only dream of what his cerebellum tastes like, when it sends the signals to his vestibular system to keep him from wobbling."

Jaheira: "Weary Jaheira. Over time, her stresses may have shrunk her hippocampus, making its taste more intense."

Karlach: "You consider Karlach's brain stem - the stalk meant to regulate her body's temperature. Will it come pre-cooked?"

Lae'zel*: "Lae'zel's motor cortex - that which controls her fine movements - will be harshly disciplined. That will make her especially chewy - just how you like a cortex to be."

Minsc: "There are cruel rumours spread, that Minsc may once have suffered injury to his brain. You could set the slander right at last - tell the world every bite was perfect."

Minthara: "With all Minthara's hate, you wonder if her cerebro-spinal fluid will be bitter to sip?"

Shadowheart: "Think of Shadowheart's cerebellum, which controls her dextrous hands. Any ritual caster must have a tightly commanded hindbrain."

Wyll: "Wyll's frontal lobe, which processes his judgement and measured words, would be a delicacy befitting his nobility." (Or "fit for a Grand Duke" if that was his outcome.)

(*You can't eat god-Gale's or astral-projection-Lae'zel's brains.)

#astarion #gale #karlach #wyll #lae'zel #shadowheart #jaheira #minsc #minthara #astarion ancunin #gale dekarios #karlach cliffgate #wyll ravengard #meta #also this is so fucking funny to me that mindflayer tav calls astarion smooth brained #mindflayer tav thinks he's stupid like just comes out and says it like that #poor astarion #also not to reveal my day job but i find these brain part selections so funny #personally i would pick the frontal lobe for shadowheart and the prefrontal cortex for wyll #the parietal lobe for astarion is fine i guess but also the post-central gyrus specifically would be his representation of his own body #karlach i would argue should be the hypothalamus but brain stem is fine i guess #minthara should absolutely be the amygdala like come on it's right there eat her amygdala #i wouldnt change the others those are fine #bg3 spoilers

[eeldritchblast]

Ethel's Vicious Mockery Analysis

(Major thanks to Aloija for the Dialog Parser and Roksik for doing the parsing, from the Down by the River Discord Server!)

I love when Ethel uses vicious mockery in the game, because I feel like it gives insight into the character’s insecurities, you know? So let’s further dissect that mockery.

WYLL

“Oh, look! It's daddy's regret.”

“Fraud of the Frontiers!”

“Do you think losing that eye made you a hero?”

Wyll wants to be seen as a hero so badly… and I’m starting to think that has a little something to do with daddy issues. This “daddy’s regret” line from Ethel, matched with one of Wyll’s desires when confronted by the secret laboratory mirror being his father’s forgiveness, certainly says there is something unresolved there…

GALE

“I can smell what's under those bandages, wizard. You're all rot and ruin.”

“Come to greet death early? You'll be a lovely spectacle.”

“Who would be jealous of you, apprentice?”

The first two aren’t anything new—we’re already aware of Gale’s condition after all. But why would Ethel call him an apprentice? Is he lying about how great a wizard he once was? Or maybe it’s just because he’s lost all his powers, and she’s teasing him about that.

SHADOWHEART

“You're so far up Shar's cake you can't see straight.”

“Why would Shar love you when no one else does?”

“You're no complex puzzle. Just a sad little girl.”

These to me, at least, speak of an undiscussed bubbling crisis of faith Shadowheart may be undergoing. And I am very interested in the second line above. Shadowheart is the type of person to keep everyone at arm’s length, and yet at the same time, it seems from this, desperately wants to be loved? That matches up with her “she took me in when no one else would” answer when asked why she became a worshipper of Shar in the first place. So it seems to me, like Shadowheart experiencing compassion from another person, possibly for the first time in her memory, is leading her to question her faith in Shar.

LAE’ZEL

“A toad with a tadpole! How fitting.”

“Your people will never take you back - illithid scum.”

“Do you miss kissing Vlaakith's feet, gith?”

Lae’zel’s biggest desire is to become kith’rak – we know this. But more to that, I think her biggest desire is to be accepted and revered by her people. Ethel saying that she will never achieve this is probably Lae’zel’s greatest fear.

ASTARION

“Is there still rat stuck in your teeth, slave?”

“Deep down, you like being leashed, don't you?”

“You're one thirsty night away from betraying everyone.”

Okay, okay, okay… the first two? Ethel just being a top tier bitch. But the last one… The last one suggests that Astarion actually does have some care for his travelling companions, if he’s concerned about hurting them. I think that brings a lot out of his character, because it confirms he’s not just a one-dimensional jerk. The glimpses of his nice side are just as genuine.

KARLACH

“Let's pull your strings, infernal puppet.”

“Happy to sell everyone's soul but your own, aren't you?”

“When I'm done, even the Hells won't want you.”

We don’t know a lot about Karlach, because she isn’t available as a companion in Early Access. But what little we do know, adds up with what Ethel says here. We know she was caught up in the Blood War as essentially a slave to Zariel. And judging from this mockery, it seems that’s left her with questioning self-worth.

#bg3 #baldur's gate 3 #wyll #gale #shadowheart #lae'zel #astarion #karlach #meta

[galedekarios]

wyll: this was a hospital? feels more like a prison. gale: a common enough interpretation. sickness has a nasty habit of making you feel trapped, if only within the confines of your body. gale: i once spent weeks convalescing in the hospice of st. laupsenn after a nasty bout of ruddy pox. for all their kindness, leaving that place behind felt like freedom to me. wyll: i've always relied on the kindness of the healers and menders of the coast. better a cleric's healing touch than a chirurgeon's scalpel.

i'm assuming this banter is supposed to trigger upon entering the house of healing, but it hasn't triggered for me. still very much interesting. not only does it offer another insight into gale's past before the events of the game, but also the hospice he found himself in for weeks is interesting itself as well:

"The Hospice of St. Laupsenn (N73) is a Sancturary of Ilmater in the North Ward of Waterdeep. In the City of Splendors, worship of The Triad has long been subsumed by the Halls of Justice, Waterdeep’s temple of Tyr. After the Time of Troubles during the early stages of the Spellplague, large swaths of the citizenry were afflicted with fiendish plagues. While most recovered with clerical attention, for some the effects of the disease continued to linger, resistant to the healing effects of magic. As few Waterdhavians would have anything to do with the fiend-afflicted sufferers, for fear of catching the plague anew, the llmatari decided to create a place for the lepers. The Order of the Golden Cup erected the Hospice of St Laupsenn, named for the priest who tended those similarly affected in the aftermath of the Weeping War, and have continued in quiet service to this day. The hospice is funded by private charitable contributions (many of which come from the personal holdings of the Lords) and tithes from the Halls of Justice and the Order itself." [source]

i was at first playing around with the idea of gale suffering from such a long illness because he might have been affected by the spellplague. then again, the spellplague usually affected magic users mentally rather than physically, so this might really just be the pox, common in big cities and beyond of course, probably during his childhood.

if larian had kept to the lore and the timeline, the effects of the spellplague should have been more central to gale's childhood and made it much more harrowing, especially since he is so intrinsically connected and linked to the weave itself.

#i do like his insights into how it feels tho #it fits in well with the meta i wrote about him dealing with pain and flare-ups with the orb #also thanks to my friend lairofsentinel who helped me order my thoughts about this #gale dekarios #gale of waterdeep #baldur's gate 3 #bg3 #ch: gale dekarios #ch: wyll ravengard #vg: baldur's gate 3 #series: baldur's gate #meta: mybg3

[bearhugsandshrugs]

🖤 Gortash:

Gortash's entire persona is about Raphael: Part 1 (his title and plot) and Part 2 (outfit)

Gortash and Karlach, and how he loathes her for reminding him of the goodness in him

Gortash is a Cyric worshipper, actually

Gortash's age and when he got out of the HoH

Why Gortash doesn't look like his parents

Gortash’s height

On whether Gortash was evil as a child

How Gortash would react to being revived by Tav

How Gortash escaped the HoH and on Hope's role

On Gortash tadpoling his parents personally

Gortash being trained artistically by Raphael

Grey morality of Gortash

Him planning to steal the Orphic Hammer

How he got good at sex

🖤 Raphael:

Raphael's visitors in the House of Hope and immortality

Raphael is the fox, not the cat

How Raphael feels about his looks, especially in relation to Haarlep

Grey morality of Raphael

Raphael's relationship to Haarlep

On who created the Astral Prism

🖤 Halsin (all of those summer '23 character state, so outdated a bit):

On Halsin's leadership

Theory on Shadow Druids

On Halsin's romance, specifically in relation to the Drow scene

🖤 Other:

On Wyll's storyline and his reception

#i'm finally getting to all of my masterlists #so here's the one on lore and theory #bg3 lore #bg3 theory #bg3 #baldur's gate 3 #enver gortash #bg3 raphael #raphael the cambion #halsin #halsin silverbough #wyll ravengard #pinned #bg3 meta #haarlep #bg3 haarlep #karlach #karlach cliffgate

[brekkie-e]

I need more people talking about how the ideal thematic party is Wyll, Karlach, and Astarion. All three bound in the shackles of servitude in some capacity, all three in some stage of being sold to hell.

Karlach and Astarion being two sides of the same coin. Years of servitude, physical and emotional torment, and rage under their belt. Nothing but the burning desire for revenge and the desperate ache to live flowing through their veins. They're both drunk on freedom and life. They get the other person, despite responding to their new found freedom in completely opposite ways. You can see it in their banter though. They get it. There is not a lot of judgement between them. If Karlach needs to laugh hysterically because she's here on the material plane, walking in the sun, and just can't believe it? Astarion can't even bring himself to judge.

But Wyll? Wyll is careening towards joining them in their suffering. He's got one foot in the door. He already knows a little of the pain that comes with being on the end of a leash, but he has only just begun to fully feel the consequences he is destined to face. The thing about Wyll though is he's desperate to save everyone but himself. He's quick to back Karlach and Astarion in their fights against their tormentors. But when it comes down to it he's fairly passive in his quest to free himself of Mizzora. Atleast in my experience, it fell to Tav to capitalize on oppurtunities to out think her. It fell to Tav to push him to TRY. That's not a critique on Wyll, but when you put that thematically next to Karlach and Astarion who are near feral in their desperation for freedom- it is really interesting. And it's easy to imagine the two of them becoming determined to ensure he doesn't fall victim to the same fates they did. He's trying to save them, while they're trying to save him.

Or, countering my own point, imagine how frustrating that would be for Karlach and Astarion. Knowing that this great guy, this larger than life hero who always has a silly pun and a dashing smile on hand- doesn’t seem to understand the gravity of his situation. He’s still smiling. He’s still soldiering on as though nothing is wrong. He’s not taking the initiative to escape it, and he’s not coming up with any possible solution. He’s content to keep spending his time helping people and putting them before his own needs. Now, Wyll isn’t necessarily as fine as he seems. He’s by no means ignorant of or unafraid of the fate that awaits him. But he puts on a good front, with that big old Charisma modifier of his. And I imagine that could easily drive Astarion and Karlach mad.

That’s without going in to the fact that Astarion has an infernal pact carved on his back, and will be sold to hell as well if he doesn’t find a solution. And he hits the ground running the moment he finds out. He is not about to let that happen, and goes to great lengths to find out how to fix the situation. So there is a contrast with Astarion and Wyll not only in their reaction to their own tormenter’s, but with their goal of evading hell.

Because of how each of these guys’ situation is so closely related to their own, I think many moments would arise of stepping on each other’s toes while processing their trauma. Karlach and Astarion know better than most what Wyll is going to go through if he doesn’t take this seriously, and he makes PUNS? If they could go back to the day before their lives changed forever, they would do everything possible to make sure it never happened. They didn’t get a warning. He has his written on paper. In glowing ink. There could be so many incredible arguments between these three because personality wise- more often than not it would be Karlach and Wyll agreeing. Which would make the moments Karlach ends up siding with Astarion because Wyll made light of something at the wrong time all the more poignant. Karlach and Astarion agreeing on something and being a united front trying to drag Wyll to action would be such a powerful scene.

It becomes even more fun when you consider their personalities. Wyll and Karlach being the indisputably kindest characters of the group, but being so narratively tied to the one who is morally bankrupt. When someone is altruistically good and helps people for no reason Astarion usually gets frustrated with the fact they don’t understand how cruel the world is. He doesn’t do that with Karlach. He can’t do that with Karlach. Because she’s him. She’s the part of him who rages and screams and let’s every swear word fly and embraces how much hurt she is carrying and how entirely unfair it is. He sees that in her and I think some part of him is validated by it. So when she is unbearably kind and refuses to believe that there’s no good left in the world, who is he to tell her she doesn’t know what she’s talking about. She has just as much baggage to back her up as he does. He just walks off and let’s her have it in most of the banter I’ve heard. The flip side, he validates her own need for vengeance and doesn’t let her feel like a bad person for enjoying taking her anger out. She deserves it after everything that’s been taken from her.

Wyll is a similar situation. He is a constant example of the goodness of humanity. A reminder that it is more important to remain true to oneself even at the expense of power or comfort. He stays true to himself, and is forced to abandon his home. He stays true to himself, and is forced to endure a form that is foreign to him. He stays true to himself, and forsakes the safety of the material plane. In the process, he sacrifices the powers of his pact. He willingly gives up the position of Grand Duke so that he can be the tool for good that he thinks the world needs. Of course, a million points can also be made about all that he’s willing to sacrifice if you go the route of maintaining his pact- but I’m working off of what I personally saw play out, which was destroy the pact but save the Grand Duke.

Wyll’s personality playing off Astarion’s selfishness is so interesting. The first things Astarion reaches for in every situation are power and comfort. Silk sheets, a good wine, unholy ascension- whatever the whim of the day is. Being forced into the company of someone who constantly reminds him there is a vastly different approach to life would both be frustrating and eye opening. Especially when that example is backed up by Karlach whom Astarion can’t help but respect and find oddly comforting. Vice versa, as Wyll is an example of selflessness to Astarion, he is an example of selfishness to Wyll. Where Wyll and Karlach drag Astarion kicking and screaming towards recovery, he might have his own soft moments of begging Wyll to put himself first. Just once. Being selfish about your needs does not make you a bad person. A dynamic made even better by Karlach being the background example that being unapologetic about your needs is okay. All of these little elements play off each other so well.

Now how do these guys come through for Karlach? Stability. Which is a word I NEVER thought to use in reference to Astarion before. But I’m serious. Day one of freedom for him? Where is his mind? Completely focused on how to make sure it lasts. How does he secure the situation. How does he make himself safe permanently? He is a self proclaimed ideas man, not much of a planner. And yet, he IS coming up with ideas. He is thinking ahead about the future, and planning to take every chance he can to secure his freedom. Karlach is living in the moment, taking each day as a blessing and not letting fears of the future hold her back. And she deserves that. But it’s good for her to have someone pulling her back to earth and reminding her to do more than live in the moment when it comes to the big things. I’m serious, if they all three put their heads together and worked as a team not only would they be able to accomplish anything- the found family potential is absolutely limitless.

So- long story short. I personally find them to be the most satisfying and interesting party dynamic you can play with. It’s rewarding on a lot of levels, and also has some of the best friendship dialogues in the game. Which I’ve noticed there just isn’t a lot of friend-centric commentary or scenes in the base game, but this party does seem to get more than other’s I’ve worked with. I think that’s a larger issue than just which party build you run with, but I do enjoy that you can get a satisfying found family feel with this crew. Of course, romancing them as eachother also works pretty well too- the dynamics are just as good for that. Personally, I enjoy romancing Astarion and then keeping Karlach and Wyll as besties, but there’s a lot of ways you can run with it.

#bg3 #baldur’s gate 3 #bg3 spoilers #bg3 meta #Wyll ravengard #bg3 wyll #astarion #astarion ancunin #karlach #karlach cliffgate #meta #long post #text post #brekkie thoughts

[antiqua-lugar]

Tumblr refuses to let me reblog a post referencing Wyll saying that as a child his father told him that their dead love ones were always watching over them and Wyll's reaction was to be scared. He thought he was haunted.

The idea of Wyll being genuinely scared of wide-eyed ghosts in response to what probably was his father's attempt to console him over his mother's death is. His loved ones not as a consolation but as a reminder, as an audience - possibly as someone judging him, because ghosts cannot move on until their unfinished business is resolved. Especially because his mother also haunts the narrative, in her own way? She's first defined by her absence, Wyll doesn't talk or think of her much because she died giving birth of him. Except he reveals that he has been thinking of her recently, specifically contrasting her to his father. He's been thinking about how his life could have been different had she been there. Wyll is always very adamant that he doesn't regret anything, he can't, because it means regretting all the good he has done and all the lives he has saved. Is his mother's death one of the things he is not supposed to regret, because had she been alive then none of this would have happened and he would still have been in Baldur's Gate with his family, not a hero but happy and whole...but then dozens of people would have been dead and dozens of devils would still be living? Are his good deeds, like his dead loved ones, haunting him? Especially since he keeps contrasting his father and mother, public vs private, duty vs personal happiness, throught the whole of Act 3, culminating with his romance scene in Act 3, where his mother's memory is directly tied to his proposal. I know some people said the writers just straight up forgot he never met her, but I just assumed he is simply recalling what his father used to say abut her, just like he always repeats his father words, which instead are curiously absent from the whole thing. We are never told why his father never married his mother while Wyll will marry the person he loves no matter who that person is - Bhaalspawn, vampire spawn , Great Liberator of the Githyanki people, former Sharran with a degree in torture and interrogation - and it would have been so easy to bring his fathers' words in his romance, to say anything at all about duty, but no, only his mother's words matter in his romance. I know this probably IS a result of the rewrite, but the complete absence of his father in favour of his mother in his romance arc, which is the ONE arc that is entirely all about Wyll's personal desires? Like The Blade of Frontier is a hero from the legends, Wyll Ravengard is someone who wants to be in a romance. It's perhaps his only indulgence, to have a love story as he wishes. On some level he compares it to his childhood dreams, and he says it's his greatest wish, as if the idea of the person he loves staying at his side forever cannot possibly be something he actually gets to keep. And not only then he does, but his romance scene only triggers after Ansur after he (in his good ending) has just refused his father and the world of politics to remain the Blade The themes in his arc. don't get me started on mizora being a dark mirror version of his mother

#antiqua plays bg3 #bg3 #wyll ravengard #bg3 meta #i am rambling. i have so many thoughts.

[passionesolja]

This is just the vibes I get from everybody

#bg3 #bg3 meta #bg3 raphael #bg3 jaheira #wyll ravengard #astarion #astarion ancunin #cazador szarr #shadowheart #baldur’s gate iii #baldurs gate #baldur’s gate 3 #karlach #laezel #enver gortash #bg3 gortash #bg3 gale #gale dekarios #gale of waterdeep #bg3 memes

[jahiera]

I know it’s just a games mechanic thing but I’m kind of obsessed with the idea of the potential learning curve astarion had to do being thrust out into the wilderness and actually fighting for his life every single day after 2 centuries of stalking shadows and mostly using charm to keep himself safe and alive. picking up a bow for the first time in centuries and it’s awkward, unwieldy at first, but the muscle memory slowly returns to him as he uses it more and more—and so does the question of, did he learn to use this while he was mortal? did he enjoy it? it feels familiar, like a long passed hobby he might’ve once had. or having to quickly adapt to using two daggers for actual combat rather than the one he might have kept on him just in case an alley interaction turned sour. astarion having to learn how to fight in a group, when he’s always been deeply, deeply alone in the shadows before. slowly adapting to watching karlach’s back, picking off enemies from the side as they group around her, or picking off an enemy that was creeping up on wyll with a trick shot from a distance. like there’s no way he did any of these things back in baldurs gate, and it’s a special kind of thrill to accumulate new skills, work skills he barely remembers even having, or finding new ways to utilize talents that once would’ve served cazador but now he uses them to save his own life, and occasionally protect his …. friends … with only mild complaining. something makes me crazy about astarion being forced to use his body for centuries to lure people back with his attractiveness and middling charm and NOW he can turn his body into something strong, a weapon that belongs only to him, reclaim autonomy through the ways he chooses to fight and develop skills and abilities cazador never would’ve wanted him to have

#I have a Mini Essay for Every Companion on their relationship to fighting vs autonomy by the way. Unhinged essays #wyll losing his powers at the beginning as he mentions. karlach using her brutality to DEFEND HER FRIENDS rather than fight for zariel #gale flexing spells and talents he hasn’t dipped into in so long while he was isolated away. #lae’zel learning what it means to fight in a group that wants to keep you as safe as they do themselves. fighting for protection. #BITING DOWN. #bg3 meta