#trans lesbian niles crane

[pyrozketches]

Fuck you *headcanons every cishet 80s/90s sitcom couple as t4t*

#Niles and daphne were t4t lesbians #chandler and Monica were t4t het #90s sitcom #80s sitcom #90s television #80s television #friends 1993 #friends tv show #frasier #niles crane #daphne moon #niles and daphne #chandler and monica #chandler bing #monica geller #trans headcanons #transgender

[theangelshavethephonebooth]

OKAY so, concept*: semi closeted trans lesbian Niles Crane. 

*At first it’s denial, a lifetime of being called gay and a girl like it was a bad thing, just because of the stuff she likes, but Fraiser likes the same stuff and he’s just like her right? So that’s it then, she can push those troglodytes out of her mind and that’s high school sorted. 

*(Of course, there’s the Field Hockey incident with Frasier, and she wants to point out that the “F” probably means girls but then, why does she notice when he doesn’t? She stays silent, and it all blows up in his face and he throws the “kilt” out in disgust and embarassment. Niles picks it up, intending to wash and return it to the school. They replace the uniforms the next year and never notice one is missing.)

*But, then college, med school, the study of the human mind. psychology introduces her to the concept of being trans. Some professors refer to it as a mental disorder, which doesn’t sit well with her, some a lifestyle choice, which isn’t great either. Theres one professor, an anthropology 101 class she had to take, who talks about how gender and sex are different, how many cultures had genders beyond male and female. The rest of the class was bored but Niles was riveted. 

(She still talks to that professor, years later with a wife and son. They have a lot in common, as it turns out.)

 College doesn’t quite do it, but Niles starts to examine her life and sexuality, and knows Fraiser does the same, but his anxious introspection seems almost like a intellectual exercise in a way her’s never does.

Her’s feels serious, life and death, like she’s teetering on the edge of some kind of breakthrough.

Then she meets Maris, and it all goes out the window.

She’s head over heels, absolutely smitten. Maris is the first girl who’s liked her for how she is, fussy and intellectual and a bit obsessed with shoes. Maris is just as strange as Niles, thin and sick and rich beyond belief in a way that makes her eccentric and exciting. 

Niles figures that if she’s in love with Maris, then she can’t be a gay man. After all, men are the ones who fall in love with women. Aren’t they?

Infatuation and mutual appreciation for each other’s strangeness gets them through a few years, but eventually that fades, and Niles is stuck, married to a women she doesn’t really love and as a person she’s starting to believe she’s never really been.

Then she meets Daphne. 

quick step back: Roz, (who is pan in this AU), has her gaydar screaming at her when she meets Niles for the first time. Of course, so do most people, but most people believe Niles when they see "him" struck dumb by women, when told by “his” family that Niles is straight. Most people aren't Roz. She knows off the bat that Fraiser isn't and Niles is, that Daphne gave her the lesbian nod when they met, that Tom the station manager has a thing for Fraiser, etc etc

She doesn't catch the trans thing until months later she recognizes a silk shirt Niles wears under his waistcoat as the same one an ex girlfriend had. Covered up, it looks like any dress shirt, but the ruffles and lace give it away.

Niles snipes at her at first bc she's jealous, of Roz's hair and skirts and open sexual identity**, and Roz does bc she doesn't stand for men, queer or straight, taking potshots at her sexuality. By the time she figures out that Niles may be closeted but most def not a man, it's settled into a snarky battle of barbs between frenimes.

A sidenote: Roz is absolutely not the first queer person in Niles social circle, but she is the first women. Niles might not seek out queer spots, but she appears to be an effeminate man with the associated social circles: fashion conscious, foodie, shoe obsessed with a thing for nice suits, theres no way she doesn't know queer men. This goes for canon too, although in canon i suppose he doesn't befriend them?

So, if Roz is the first queer women Niles meets, Daphne is the second. So, when Niles meets Daphne, well.

Niles is, like many of us, a bit of a useless lesbian around attractive women.

As much as I would like to make Daph the british butchy but still femme lesbian of my dreams, love the trope where the trans person is all "but you only like X gender/sex, and I'm Y" even tho they are, of course trans, and the cis partner is all "exactly, i only like X gender, which is why I like you" and then everyone blushes and is happy and validated and goddamnit, its wonderful, BUT it interfers w/ characterization too much. Fraiser and Martin would, i suppose, be a bit firmer with Niles if they believed the crush was that of a fruitless and predatory nature, a straight man chasing an uninterested lesbian. (Or at least, I hope they would!)

So, Daphne's bi, or pan, or frankly doesn't give a shit, maybe she only brings home men, or maybe she is gay and the boys, clueless as they are, don't notice that when she says girlfriend she doesn't mean "girl who is my friend"

Niles notices.

Daph is in a weird position, especially if she is gay. She's an employee, much as they all sometimes forget, her housing and job is contingent on keeping them happy. Fraiser might seem accepting but Martin is sometimes, especially in the early days, v rigid about gender roles, and Frasier a bit nosy and dammit, a women has a right to her privacy.

So maybe she's gay, but she plays the pronoun game, avoids names or only mentions names like "Sam" "Donnie" "Andy" or "Josh"

And of course, there's "Uncle Jackie", who canon is kinda shitty 2, but Daph seems pretty accepting of. Its the 90s, so IDK proper terms, but here, Daph always uses she/her pronouns. Fraiser and Martin use he when the subject comes up, or similar ones, like a caller on the show, tho both usually try, (training or, for Martin, the memory of the strong slap he received upon calling a 6'2 witness "he" at a crime scene once) but Daphne doesn't correct them, at least not until later, when she's truly family, not just the help.

Niles always uses she to refer to Jackie, always asks how a patient identified themselves and takes a best guess, and eventually notices that Daphne does the same

Niles’s crush on Daphne is one part actual crush, one part "do I want you or want to be you" and honestly, is the last straw, the catalyst that make Niles actually admit that she's a women. (Probably a gay women, although in the right light she can find men attractive.)

She's always bought Maris gifts that, in hindsight, were a bit too big (tho it is actually hard to find things that fit her garden rake of a wife), and just masculine enough to pass as fashion forward male garb, and she remembers the hoarded skirt from high school, never returned or worn but hidden away, still somewhere in her side of the house.

She wants to tell Frasier, Maris, even Dad, but though her personal revalation is elating to her, its really big, too big, and it's still the 90s or 2000s, out trans people aren't exactly common and frankly, this is too scary and she's still fussy anxious Niles Crane, so she stays in the closet.

Roz, we know, figures it out, sees the change from effeminate but male fashion to a more feminine style, women's blouses masquerading as dress shirts under vests, manicures not only becoming more common but slowly replacing simple buffing with clear polish, or a nude tint, almost pink. She sees Niles grow out her hair, just a bit, just enough so that when she tilts just right it almost looks like a bob, but she never says anything. They aren't friends like that, aren't close, and Niles seems to be discrete. Roz suspects that if Niles knew she knows, she'd come out b4 she's ready.

Niles knows she can't do much, not while married to Maris. They live in the public eye and the rich snobs she aspires to be would never accept her, and, crush on Daphne aside, that's alright with her (for now), but playing with her hair, a bit of makeup or clothing now and again was fun and makes her feel better.

She wants to tell her family soon.

Martin suspects...something, tho I don't suppose "my son is actually my daughter" would be his first thought, and Daphne always calls her Dr. Crane, never Mr., not focusing on her unfortunately male sounding name. 

Niles, is a bit clueless, thinks its just respect or formality, a sign she'll never be close to Daphne, but Daphne, unaware of the crush, means it as an acknowledgement of who Niles is, the women hiding in men's Italian suits.

Then the seperation, Maris cheating, the divorce, the therapy, Donnie and Mel.

At this point, Daph is out to the Cranes, Niles knows she has a chance (v slim, for Daphne believes her to be A Man, which of course she doesn't but Niles doesn't know that) but Frasier and Martin dial up the "keep Niles away from Daphne" campaign, believing themselves more then ever to be helping (eye roll, even in canon F did more harm then good, keeping them apart during the whole bs w/ Maris, I have to believe its mostly habit at this point, although in this AU it makes sense)

And then Niles hires the top divorce lawyer in Seattle, Roz's ex.

Donna "Donnie" Douglas.

When Niles and Roz scheme to get their ones who got away back, Niles, worried that Roz will think her some kind of exploitive homophobic trash, comes out to her. Roz of course knows, makes sure she's ok for about for a second, then goes right back to their weird teasing friendship

Somehow it all comes out to Daphne too, but everything else goes much the same, only now,  Niles is officially one of the girls.

From there, everything again, works out much the same, Niles meets Mel, Donny and Daph get serious, they all decide to get married, Niles and Daphne realize they're in love w/ each other more then their respective gfs, but Daphne cancels her wedding/commitment ceremony while Niles goes through w/ hers.

EXCEPT: Niles has been preparing to come out, just to the rest of her close friends, family and Mel, means to do it b4 the marriage but loses the nerve, so when it all comes out with Daphne, it really all comes Out.

the thing is, Mel knows, and Niles told her, but Mel is very deliberately obtuse about it, and its a quiet part of the party argument, something about lying and excuses. Niles keeps trying, hoping to make her Get It, to no avail. After the hoopla she pretends she had no idea, that Niles kept this from her, yadda yadda.

Mel is awful (and I hate her), so she forces Niles to pretend to be a doting husband rather then an unwilling wife, up until the point she gets fed up. 

Niles gets angry, Daphne feels abandoned and alone so she tells Mel its over

She won't pretend to be someone she's not with Mel, she won't hurt herself or the women she loves anymore.

A snippet from that night: "I can't be your husband Mel, I never could."

Mel storms out, friends around her and the Cranes are better for it.

After that, Niles stops pretending, grows out her hair long again, considers hormones and surgery, but lives mostly stealth, content to pass as male to strangers and patients as she adjusts to her family knowing her as their daughter and sister, instead of son and brother.

It's weird, but good.

In this au that whole "make Daph fat bc Jane is preggers" arc doesn't happen, instead it's Niles body image arc, presenting as female and all the passing issues

When their mother's friend visits and assumes Roz is Niles she responds by saying "no, sorry I'm Roz, I work with Frasier, but you're not far off the mark." And Frasier adds something along the lines of "Niles will be here soon, she's just running late."

Martin also keeps slipping up, refering to sons, youngest son, brothers, he, my boys etc, correcting himself but not used to it yet, but this episode is the first time he consistently and firstly says my daughter, your sister, she, my kids.

They get married a little earlier, but having their son takes time bc Niles already had "slow sperm" and the hormones interfer a bit.

They still are about to decide to get help whn Daphne realizes shes knocked up

Niles never drastically changes her appearance, comfortable in her lean body, shortish hair, too big hands. She takes hormones and has her clothes altered to fit her changing frame but never tries to change her voice, or enhance her breasts, and choses not to undergo any kind of surgery until after she and Daphne are done having kids

*born of thinking about lesbian Niles and a throw away joke made in an episode where an old family friend mistook Roz for Niles, which took “oh what if Niles was trans to” from a background thought to a full blown AU

**Roz and Daphne date for about 10 seconds, more of a sexual friendship then a romance, then settle into a comfortably queer friendship, but Roz dating Daph first certainly didn't help her and Niles becoming friends

#frasier #niles crane #look if Niles has to like girls i will at least make it in a gay way #trans lesbian niles crane #Niles is a useless lesbian and that's how it should have been #in the cis lesbian AU Maris is Marvin and it's a running joke that Niles is a wlw but Daphne is unawares

[proshipping-edits]

Trans lesbian niles crane kin moodboard

Requested by:mod poke

#Mod poke #Mod poke requested #Frasier #Frasier kin #Niles crane #Niles crane kin #Lesbian #Trans #Trans woman #Moodboard #Neon color #ask to tag

[vampire-fluids]

Happy Pride Month

#frasier #frasier crane #Niles crane #Daphne moon #Gil Chesterton #Lilith Sternin #Bebe Glazer #Cheers #pride month #90s #trans #lesbian #non binary #pansexual #asexual #gay

[exactly24bees]

Niles Crane is lgbt. What do you mean which one

#rowan rambles #niles crane #frasier #lgbt #hes a bisexual trans man but also a trans lesbian bit also a gay guy #tho honestly he is bi. no straight man could ever love a woman as much as he loves Daphne. loving women as a bi man hits different

[theglasscat]

imma follow up the "niles crane is a trans man" point by adding "lilith sternin is an autistic lesbian thrown into a compulsory heteronormative world"

[daphnemoon]

daphne/niles fanfic recs?

Ooh, I gave some recs years ago, so I’ll find that post and reblog it. For now, here are some newer ones. 

Absolutely everything by robotsdance. They’ve written a few Niles/Daphne fics. If I have to rec one in particular, it’d be Good Morning, because it has the exact right tone and plot of a Frasier episode. You have your farce, everyone having secret conversations in the kitchen, and great appearances from every main character. It takes place in an AU where Niles and Daphne slept together in Daphne Hates Sherry, and then kept on sleeping together. But I also have to shout-out Adore and Together, which focus on Niles and Daphne... having a lot of sex, basically, around season 8-10. Sticky Toffee Pudding is an AU set during The Dark Side of the Moon, and The Moon-Crane is a future fic that focuses on David Crane being trans, which is excellent. 

baby, here’s to love, by wildcard_47. This is an AU where Daphne is a man, and Niles realizes he’s gay when meeting him. I don’t know if that’s something you’re interested in, but it’s so well done. I love the portrayal of Daphne, Niles’ coming out, and the Niles-Roz friendship.

Everything by roseisreturning/butchlilith, but especially synchronicity. Most of their fics focus on lesbian Niles, and are so beautifully written. I love the exploration of gender and always feel very seen by at least one moment. There’s so much to love about synchronicity especially, from Lilith’s appearances to Billy Moon to the changes in Moon Dance and the fascinating new dimension of Niles and Maris’ relationship. I could go on and on because some of the changes really made me lose my mind, but I’ll leave you with this one: Daphne asking Niles to be a bridesmaid. 

Kaleidoscopic, a study of love and soulmates, by empress_of_snark. Frasier isn’t really a fandom I associate with these kinds of alternate universes, but this one really worked for me because it just fits with Daphne’s psychic visions and that one moment with Niles and the dragon statue. I loved the different ways we saw soulmates work in all the different characters and relationships, and the way things developed for Niles/Daphne was perfect. 

fasten yours, by kingofthelosers. Short-ish but really sweet and set around late season 8. ‘i do’ is more explicit, and set during the season 10 finale. Between these fics and robotsdance, I really appreciate the rise of established relationship horny Niles/Daphne. It’s honestly what they deserve. 

#ask box #fic rec #fanfic #niles x daphne

[butchlilith]

op on the daphne/niles gifset here and if you're happy to share i wanna know how that scene exists in your mind!!!!! (i made the gifset really just cause im mesmerised by the way dhp delivers it)

dfghjkl first of all i am SO sorry for making you see my insanity on your very nice gifset (and you’re extremely valid for being mesmerized by dhp’s delivery) but... i am always happy to talk about the version of frasier than exists only in a specific corner of my brain once a fortnight <3

so. i mean. the basic lore is that my blog is lesbian frasier (as in the show not the character. i do NOT claim frasier crane) central, which means that i have unfortunately written a metric tonne of fic centering this premise, including my now-ancient lesbian niles fic. and the reason i am saying this is because my ideal version of the scene you giffed is within the Lesbian Niles Expanded Universe™️.

this of course isn’t to pretend that straight men are by any means totally unencumbered by societal expectations (i have a brain and do happen to use it on occasion) or to write off the elements of class in the niles/daphne relationship or anything of that kind, but i think the notion of a love based on “somebody i’m supposed to be” feels very... how do you say... coded. so, within the context of lesbian niles (and especially trans lesbian niles), i think there’s a much richer conversation to be had wrt gender performance and relationships structures and just imagining other meaningful ways in which the niles/daphne relationship differs from niles’s previous ones and how that might affect their present.

i am trying to restrain myself from writing a dissertation here as i’ve written two papers today already, but... tl;dr It’s About The Gender

#asks #mykashg #also your icon >>>>>

[justsomeguycore]

niles crane butch trans he/him lesbian i will never stop saying it you can’t make me

[strawbfairyy]

trans lesbian niles crane who, pre-transition, accepts that she fully loves women, but once she realizes she IS a woman, is discouraged from being attracted to them, and so gets a divorce from maris (who’s straight) and tries to date again, but it’s not working because all she wants to do is date daphne, but that’s not allowed because being a girl is one thing but being a Girl Who Likes Girls is another, and so her attraction to daphne feels so very forbidden, and she can never tell if daphne is flirting back with her or just being Gal Pals, but then one night daphne finally gets over her Bi Panic and comes out to her and they finally get together and are grossly in love :)

#yes I’m posting about frasier stop Judging me #frasier #i also enjoy a good roz/lilith power couple #niles crane #trans niles crane #cc talks #probs this will get no notes but oh well #daphne moon #bisexual daphne moon #niles x daphne #daphne x niles

[kelyon]

Frasier Reboot Plan

@missnilescrane asked and I am here to deliver my dream!

Sadly, this reboot is NOT entirely about Niles, though of course I hope he and Daphne will be series regulars. More on that later. 

Long story short: Fraiser is Martin, only in the opposite direction.

Finding himself at retirement age and still lacking meaningful attachments, Dr. Fraiser Crane decides to move in with his son Fredrick and his family. Fredrick is a psychiatrist like his father, but UNLIKE his father, Fredrick is a Millenial and drowning in student loan debt. Fredrick’s financial troubles are exacerbated by him eschewing private practice in favor of working at a mental health hospital or drug rehab center in the inner city for very little money. 

This is where the central conflict of the relationship comes in: Fredrick is attuned to the reality of middle America in a way that Frasier never has been. Fredrick is truly empathetic to the suffering of the people he works with while the breezy former radio host is more likely to crack a joke and punch down.  

Fredrick is married to a woman of color (either Latina or African American) and she and Frasier clash A LOT. Over EVERYTHING. Housekeeping, parenting, politics, FOOD--you name it, Fraiser and Mrs. Crane disagree about it. 

The couple have 2 or 3 sitcomy biracial children. (At least one young boy, a teenage girl and possibly a baby or kindergartener. Standard sitcom grouping.) Theoretically, Frasier loves them, but in practice he finds them noisy and disruptive and he doesn’t understand them. One of the children might be named Eddie.

Over and over, Fraiser doesn’t understand why the family doesn’t do things his way. These are the same types of arguments Frasier used to have with Martin, but now there is usually a very simple answer: MONEY. They eat “ethnic” food because it’s cheap. They don’t go to opera or symphony because it’s expensive. They scrimp and save up for petty indulgences because THEY HAVE TO. Especially in terms of taste, the new Crane family litterally CANNOT live the life Fraiser expects his family to live. 

In my heart, every episode is a new way for Fraiser to come to terms with his privilege. I want to talk about race, crime, mental illness, drug abuse, consent, teenage girls having sexual agency, poverty, the decline of the middle class, healthcare, student debt, LGBTQ identities,  “Millenials Killing X Industry.” All that shit. I want Frasier to be confronted with all his self-righteous opinions of why people are in the trouble they’re in and reveal his assumptions to be LIES. 

Niles and Daphne show up as often as schedules allow--three episodes a season would be nice. Niles realizes he’s bi/pan and spends a episode wracked with guilt over experiencing attraction to a man--but mostly to anyone who isn’t Daphne. Daphne and Freddie work together to assure him that it’s okay to have attraction to men just as he has attraction to women. He chose Daphne and she has no cause to doubt  his devotion to her, even as he admits that other men are cute. So it’s a more personal, nuanced coming-out story. Niles is bi but they stay together.  

David Crane does not always use the name David Crane. They is some level of genderqueer or trans. Frasier is mildly infuriated by this and thinks they is doing it just to confuse people. (Not that David IS confused, but that they is intentionally trying to allienate friends and relatives by changing pronouns/names/identities. Fraiser is a dick.)

David is a college student in a nearby university. They is seen dating people of various genders. The Crane kids have no problem accepting their cousin. 

Alice Doyle is a grad student at the same university and very political. She’s the type to protest and riot and call for extreme action. She says the things that Fredrick loves Frasier too much to say. 

Roz is a lesbian.

#fraiser #frasier reboot #holy shit that got long #honestly this is just my revenge fantasy for my parents #CONFRONT REALITY YOU BABY BOOMERS

[orbsdotorg]

I’ve been rewatching a lot of Frasier and I just want to say that Niles Crane is the greatest character in the history of fiction. I feel about him the way you kids on here do about like the Voltron gays or whatever. I wanna make moodboards and playlists and shit for him. Gonna change my url to trans-lesbian-niles and yell at people about it.

[proshipping-edits]

Headcanons

Requested by:mod poke

#Mod poke #Mod poke requested #Frasier #frasier crane #niles crane #Lesbian #Trans #Bisexual #Asexual #Icons #My icons #Headcanons #Ask to tag

[justsomeguycore]

trans dapper butch lesbian niles crane

[justsomeguycore]

speak it into existence! manifest!!! if you say it enough times, it will be fact! niles crane is a trans butch nonbinary lesbian! NILES CRANE IS A TRANS BUTCH NONBINARY LESBIAN!