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cluelessbees · 7 months

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through the whole time I’ve been following you I’ve never once seen you say anything about Palestine before. Since the news broke about Hamas killing Israelis, rightfully so you’ve shared posts etc about it all and it seems like posting about st/byler is the last thing you wanna think about rn. Which is fine! But lately its just seeming like you’re doing it to prove to everyone how smart and informed/outraged you are about the conflict and how dare anyone talk about anything else… in one of your recent reposts you tagged that all the Palestinians that have died in the 75 years shouldn’t be forgotten (they shouldn’t! What’s been done is awful) and fuck anyone who doesn’t wanna read about it bc it makes them feel bad. I would be more willing to agree with you on the things you say/repost if I’d seen you post about it before… but you haven’t. I’ve never seen you talk about Palestine before on your byler based acc (bc you’re here to talk abt byler!) but suddenly it’s like you’re some social justice warrior who can’t bare to talk about byler bc the Israel/Palestine conflict has been brought to attention again on social media. Others who have reposted things have still posted abt things they like in between bc they know the small things they share won’t make a big difference but they want to show they still care whereas yours seems performative at this point.

I'm going to stay as calm as possible here.

Go unfollow me if you don't want to see anything about Palestine. That's it. Point blank. I don't need your validation or your follow or whatever.

Just because I've never talked about the issue before online doesn't mean it isn't an important issue to me. I'm an Arab. I hear news about this every week. I grew up hearing about Palestinians being kicked out of their homes, being bombed, being killed. Every Ramadan I read articles of Palestinians being beaten and killed for praying in Masjid Al-Aqsa.

I have friends who are Palestinians refugees, who can't even return to Palestine. I have a teacher that left my highschool to go back to Gaza to be with her mom. And I have no fucking idea if she's alive right now.

This is everyday for me. And I was so used to the world not caring. Up until a few years ago saying you were pro-Palestine would lead to so much hate.

But the world is talking about it now. And I will not stay silent. I will not let misinformation spread. I will not let Israel destroy Palestine's image. I will not let anyone forget about their lives. They were people. They are my people. They are my friends, my teachers, my family.

Go fuck yourself if you think this is me being performative or me showing off my knowledge. Do you fucking know why I have this knowledge???? Why I know so much?? I grew up with this.

I'm literally an Arab. I can't believe I have to fucking say this so many times. I'm not white or whatever. This is literally all I can think about right now. The Arab community (which I'm a part of) in my university are setting up donations, wearing the Palestinian Kuffeyah in solidarity, talking about this whenever and however we can. This is what it means to be Arab. We are not going to shut up about it.

I am watching my region enter a war. I literally live in the Middle East. I am watching people online call my people terrorists, barbaric, subhuman, animals. What do you expect me to do? Watch and pretend that I'm white or some shit?

OH and because you're thinking I'm just now caring

Here's fucking screenshots of my chats with friends.

Just because I've never talked about it here before doesn't mean I've never cared about the issue. You don't know me stop acting like you do.

Fuck everyone who thinks this way. I don't care if you support or follow my account. I will talk about Palestine until my dying breathe. My love for Palestine is ingrained in my DNA. It is the fabric of my soul.

It's free Palestine, until Palestine is fucking free.

#palestine #I literally don't care #hate me all you want #I'm an Arab before I'm a fucking account for a ship

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maddy-ferguson · 8 months

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i think bylers are so close to getting the 'mlm shippers hate the female character getting in the way of their ship' title if they try a little bit harder. the amount of bs takes i have seen here is really just... something else. trying to portray el as an abuser and saying she forced herself on mike when mike didnt want it, and then blaming her for everything that exist in mlvn's relationship as if mike wasn't a participant in it, blaming el for lying even though mike has also been lying to her and is still lying (which is a popular take in byler community so make it make sense)? and this on top of it ppl wanting mike to have never loved her at all and wanting him to break up with her. the whole thing is just not great, lol, it is sounding like steve or billy fans who shit on nancy and the thing is el didn't even do anything actually, whereas you could maybe argue nancy didnt handle the breakup and relationship with steve or problems with jonathan that well.

well we already all have that title but i think you mean bylers are so close to earning it and i don't exactly disagree lmao.

i think it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. people are afraid of being called misogynists so they preface everything they say about el with "i love el. because i love women. i'm not a misogynistic mlm shipper." or something to that effect and then everyone gets sick of having to say this (even though no one forced anyone like the people who have decided that we all collectively hate el are not reading these posts and if they are saying that will not change their minds) and think that everyone in this part of the fandom worships el like mlvns and redditors do when there was actually always el criticism like when was there ever anti-el sentiment censorship. i don't remember it. people were making i love el BUT posts 35 times a day. so yeah everyone gets sick of having to do that even though they didn't really...have to and then they go um since no one wants to say this i will. el is not a good girlfriend to mike. no one wants to say this because she was raised in a lab for the first twelve years of her life and doesn't know anything about social norms. like YEAH thank you for pointing that out we really hadn't noticed. that's why she shouldn't be in that relationship in the first place lmao.

people who think mike should never expect to have a relationship of equals with her because she still needs to be taught things he learned in the first twelve years of his life so expecting her to give him a big speech about how she loves him back or to give him a gift like he did at the airport isn't fair (redditors. they've said that) are missing the point that if the relationship can't be good because el is learning how to navigate the real world in real time as she's dating mike...then she shouldn't have been in a relationship in the first place because it's literally bad for her too. and when bylers make posts about how mike should get to break up with her because he's had no agency in the relationship...are you implying that mike has had less agency than the girl he introduced the concept of a relationship to who thought he was gonna be her brother and who didn't know how to tell what she liked for their first six months of dating. it's not a competition but if it was el would be winning it.

i know societal pressure is a thing but was lucas forcing mike to win el back at like gunpoint? i know mike probably feels like he owes it to el to be a good boyfriend for whatever reason like he promised they'd go to the dance together in season one and he's a paladin and they don't break their promises and he's gay and it's the 80s but god. he didn't want to say i love you in el's bedroom and he didn't he's not staying in this relationship until he's 40 she's not forcing him to do anything. he tried to win her back and said he loved her and she later kissed him and said she loved him back. could he not have said damn that sucks el i don't know if i actually want to get back together now :/ lmao like he didn't because it's a story and again the gay thing and she'd just lost her dad and everything else you can say to explain why he wouldn't want to say damn el i actually don't want to get back together now. but how is her saying she wants to be with him again TOO and him not saying he doesn't want to ANYMORE him not having agency. the only time you could argue his agency was taken from him is when will said you're the heart because el was dying lol. and even then he could've said anything so like he still had agency. or he didn't because it's a story but you get my point. a lot of it is self-inflicted a lot a lot and him feeling pressured to be in a relationship with el doesn't come from her pressuring him lmao. so i get wanting him to get himself out of it to a degree but if we're saying the one who has the least agency should get to "break free"? it's not mike.

#'el gets too much grace' i don't think mike being like no you're not getting a brother you're gonna be my girlfriend after a week of #calling her a weapon and making her use her powers to find his friend which was giving her ptsd flashbacks every five minutes is el #being given too much grace it's actually pretty cold. it's not on mike OBVIOUSLY but like girl what #it's not as bad as i just said because they formed a connection it's not as cynical but on some level it is #i'm thinking about something robin pinkeoni posted a while ago i'll look for it maybe #forgot to say: if mike deserves grace for being gay then el deserves more grace for everything she's been through lmao which doesn't mean #mike should be in a relationship that's bad for him but it's bad for el too like they both deserve to not be in it #and also deserve leniency for being 14 etc that goes without saying #ask

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sleepy-moron · 2 years

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I stand before you today good people of Tumblr to answer a very important question: Why gay Mike Wheeler? This isn't going to be an explanation as to what evidence there is to support this claim because many people have covered the topic way better than I could, it's more of me attempting to explain why I personally am so interested by this interpretation of stranger things.

Okay so I've loosely followed the stranger things community on and off since around fall of 2016?? While I've had occasional brief periods of hyperfixation on the series, it's never been THE hyperfixation for me. That is until we started getting the bigger promo material for season four in October. I fell into a theory post rabbit hole and eventually wound up binge reading a bunch of byler meta posts.....and now I am extremely invested, as evidenced by me even making this post.

The funny thing is I never really had strong feelings about Mike as a character other than him being an asshole in season 3 prior to this. I thought he was generally a likeable enough protagonist(because he arguably fills the role of an 80s kid hero better than anyone else+ he is always relevant in that part of the storyline for the first three seasons) for the kind of story the show is trying to tell, albeit not a particularly interesting one. But Mike being gay changes that, and not for the "you only like the character because they're gay" reasons some people are going to claim. Well it does have to do with that but it really isn't that cut and dry of an answer.

Mike being canonically gay would make him an incredibly subversive character, and I don't mean that in a "wow it's so rare to have a character realize they're gay gradually over the course of a work of fiction" way, I mean it's arguably a subversion of a lot of tropes and story conventions common to works like stranger things. I'd argue that if Mike being gay is indeed the intended reading of his character, that this makes him one of the strongest links between a characters personal arc and the overall thematics of a show I've seen in recent memory.

This begs the question: what is stranger things even about on a thematic level. I personally believe that the biggest takeaways are about the power of love and compassion in the face of adversity, and that people (particularly people in positions of power) are the real monsters for encouraging the suffering and pressure to conform to societal norms at the price of your own happiness. I think most people who have watched the show would agree on these being major themes so I'm not going to explain how the story shows these themes.

Mike (and his hypothetical sexuality and relationship with Will) tie in with these themes pretty damn perfectly. The bond these two share is always linked to the main supernatural threat of the season, and in the first two seasons Mike caring about Will to the extent he does is a big factor in taking down the physical threat of the season. Season 3 is a little different, as a big conflict of the season is Mike ignoring people in favor of kissing El, and Will is by far the character we see impacted the most by this. This conflict is the whole reason nobody besides Dustin gets involved with the mall Russians, and Mike and Will literally have their big fight right before the characters realize the mind flayer is back.

Now that we know how important their relationship is, let's run through how many themes this arc would connect to. These two deciding to go against the very real pressures of society to do what makes them happy, as which is also an act of love/care, and would likely help them fight against the upside down at an unspecified later point in the series. This even works on a meta level, as this also subverts real society's expectations on how the plot of shows like stranger things go. Mike not ending up with El would be a big subversion already but him ending up with Will instead inverts so many tropes. It means the main girl character in advertisement doesn't end up with the guy she's closest with, a gay character isn't in unrequited pining for a hero who's straight, and it also means that no longer being in a relationship with someone is automatically an unhappy ending. Additionally it subverts the idea of needing a relationship to be happy and the idea that relationship plotlines can't be just as relevant to the story of an action/non melodrama show as any other kind of side plot can be. So this boils down to subverting audience expectations based on cinematic conventions to stay true to the story being told, and that story ultimately being about compassion and love overcoming all opposition.

I just think that's the kind of story people need to see sometimes, and it would be huge to see a show this popular do something like this, and I really think that just how well this storyline would fit the show in addition to all the subtext is really why people are so attached to this idea.

#byler #stranger things #stranger things 4 #byler tumblr #gay mike wheeler #mike wheeler is gay #oh boy this is a doozy of a ramble essay #i just had a lot of feelings and kinda just threw all of them into a post #hopefully this is somewhat coherent???#this is the text equivalent of what goes through my head when i become overwhelmed by feelings about a piece of media #to which i then lie on the floor for several hours until i become a function person again

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vivelegalite · 1 year

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im having what may be the worst week in my whole 20 years on this earth, so here's a few byler thoughts i commented on someone's post and thought deserved their own post!!! if i got some things wrong, sorry im extremely mentally drained and my wifi literally stopped working halfway through this <3 feel free to correct me or join me in my delusion in the comments/tags/asks/dms though!!!! i need a distraction desperately so don't hesitate to interact!!!!

without further ado, here it is:

why the "i told you, joyce has this telemarketer job. mike won't stop whining about it" line is definitely about will, as evidenced by literally what the show tells us.

it's not exactly clear when watching season 3 what el's status is with the us govt following its finale. she's searched for throughout seasons 1, 2 and 3, but it's clear she was discovered following her role in fighting the spider monster and stopping the soviets. it's assumed some sort of deal is made following the battle of starcourt, allowing el to live as a normal teenager after the byers family relocates to california — dr. owens is said to help them settle in lenora, in a house they most likely wouldn't be able to afford without help.

i've seen points made for both will and el being primary reasons for the byers family leaving. will, obviously traumatised by the upside down and thus the whole town of hawkins, most likely wouldn't stand to stay there much longer without his mental health deteriorating. el is very much the same — the lab, upside down, the mall where she lost her dad are still fresh in her mind.

however, we also later find out about an apparent divide between the government and hawkins national lab, namely dr. owens and brenner. we learn that el is indeed still a fugitive, and she is still actively being searched for by authorities. that's the real reason for the move.

we've finally arrived at our point — letters, calls, and how mike kept in touch with both el and will.

in seasons 1-4 we are shown numerous times that phones are not to be trusted, and that phone lines are not safe. we know the people who were initially wiretapping hopper's and joyce's phones are the same people who then helped them escape, but after season 3 (timeline wise) and season 4 (when we are shown), this changes. dr. owens and brenner are no longer working with the government, instead operating in secret, meaning the means of communication they used to once take advantage of is no longer viable for el.

although this is only speculation on my part, i would venture to say it's pretty obvious.

government taps phones, it's a thing they do —» can no longer trust government —» knowing they tap phones, you shouldn't use them anymore.

this, however, isn't speculation: el is never mentioned in association with calls, only letters. season 4 opens with a letter from el to mike being read out, when she and mike fight she pulls out a stack of letters to prove he can't write that he loves her, and finally, will's line at the rinkomania:

"you've called maybe a couple of times. it's been a year, mike. meanwhile el has like, a book of letters from you."

will thinks mike is no longer interested in whatever he has to say because mike only called a handful of times within the timespan of a year (actually closer to 8 months, but...). he also pairs that sentiment with the fact that mike does keep in touch with el, exchanging letters regularly.

letters, because of the phone lines not being secure, are an El Thing™. we can gather from this line that calls are a Will Thing™, or at least they used to be before joyce got that telemarketing job (the timeline of which is unclear, honestly, given how the last letter el sends to mike in march mentions the job as though it was a new development, which does nothing to explain why mike failed to stay in touch with will since october. but that's another can of worms we don't have time to unpack now. my bet is on internalised homophobia btw).

thus, the line about mike whining about joyce's job? he regrets not being able to talk to will.

bonus: why doesn't mike want to write will letters, too?

i'd bet on a mix of the fanfiction staple aka "i couldn't write because i would constantly pour too much heart onto paper and/or sign the letter as love, mike" and (arguably more plausible) mike finding will's voice comforting.

i mean, come on, their whole thing is being afraid of losing each other. season 1 and 2 are literally about mike losing will and trying to get him back, first physically then mentally. season 3 is mike losing will metaphorically, growing apart because of his actions. in season 4 they acknowledge this — will saying he'd prefer to rip off the bandaid if he were to lose mike, and mike recognising that he lost will because he worried too much about el.

i feel like after all of this, ESPECIALLY seasons 1 and 2, it would be comforting to mike to actually hear will and know that he's safe and sound. if your best friend disappears for days and his voice is the only thing giving you hope about him being alive, i think it's understandable to prefer being able to hear him when he's gone from sight.

i keep imagining season 1 mike calling out to will on the walkie talkie, and can't help but think letters simply wouldn't cut it for them.

#byler #miwi #wiseheart #st #stranger things #st4 #stranger things 4 #byler analysis #will byers #mike wheeler #don't let this flop begging #byler tumblr #byler endgame #mike wheeler i know what you are

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gaygoetia · 2 years

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What's Mike's Deal? (Emotionally) A Character Analysis

I think we can all agree that Mike has been acting pretty weird this season and so far we haven't been given a clear reason as to why.

So here's an overview of how he's been acting, why it's weird and why he might be acting that way.

Mike's weirdness around Will

While Mike has been a bit hot and cold in general (veering between friendly/affectionate and rude/standoffish with both Will and El) there are a few moments in particular I wanna focus on:

1. The apparent lack of communication between Mike and Will since the Byers moved to California.

Will comments that Mike has called "maybe a couple of times" in the past year, meanwhile he has been sending letters near-constantly to Eleven. As Mike points out, communication goes both ways and isn't solely Mike's responsibility but Will's comment that Mike didn't seem interested in anything he has to say implies that Mike has been unresponsive even in the communication they have had.

Also if I'm honest, Mike's claim that Will also should have reached out more doesn't hold much weight for me after he lied to El's face about how often he says he loves her while still not saying it. If that's any indication, Mike probably vastly overestimates the amount of effort he's put in comparative to Will.

2. That awkward half-hug Mike gave Will at the airport (contrasted with his very affectionate and excited greeting to Eleven)

If you compare this interaction to hugs Will and Mike have shared in previous seasons, there is an obvious difference and you can tell from both Will and Jonathan's faces that they're surprised too. Considering this is the first time he's seeing his best friend in a whole year, the gesture is weirdly brief and impersonal, especially considering everything Will and Mike have been through together. At both the airport and the roller-rink he also seems to be actively avoiding looking at Will and to a lesser extent, Eleven as well. Most of the time when he's talking he looks off to the side or into the distance and the longest he holds any eye contact in this episode is when he meets Angela.

3. Mike and Will's argument

There are a couple of notable things about Mike's words/behaviour in this argument, starting with the fact that he's mad at Will at all. At this point he's been ignoring Will since he arrived in California and now he's suddenly angry at Will for "moping"?

Back in season 2 whenever Mike noticed Will seemed unhappy he would immediately check in to see if he's ok. Where is that energy in season 4? Now, instead of gently asking what's wrong, Mike yells at Will for "sabotaging the whole day" with his bad mood.

The other thing that's interesting about this is the fact that Mike noticed Will's mood/facial expressions enough to be annoyed by it, despite avoiding looking at or speaking to him all day. Him ignoring Will wasn't just him being oblivious - he was clearly paying much more attention to Will than he seemed - so it must have been a conscious choice.

The other significant part of this argument is when Will asks "what about us?" (causing Mike's eyebrows to shoot up and disappear under his fringe) and Mike responds "we're friends - we're friends". The fact that he repeats this twice (in addition to putting a lot of emphasis vocally on the word "friends") comes across as quite defensive to me, implying this might be a sensitive subject for him in some way.

So what's up with that?

I asked some friends and family (who casually watch the show without engaging in fandom) their thoughts and the general consensus was the following:

Will seems to have a crush on Mike

Mike may be aware of this and uncomfortable with it or unsure how to act around Will because of it.

The other common response was that Mike is acting weird due to bad or inconsistent writing but for the sake of this post let's assume this isn't the case lol.

Some other interpretations I've seen in online spaces (mainly among Byler fans) is that Mike's weird behaviour might be due to him being gay or bi himself or specifically having a crush on Will. He could be acting in response to internalised homophobia, a paranoia that people will be able to "tell", a desire to distance himself from Will in order to repress those feelings or jealousy of the hypothetical girl El thinks Will has a crush on.

Does Mike know Will is gay?

A big part of analysing Mike's behaviour in these instances comes down to how aware he is of Will's sexuality and/or feelings for him.

Personally I've always interpreted Mike (as well as Dustin and Lucas) as being aware of Will's sexuality, or at least suspecting. But I also don't think it's something any of them have ever discussed openly.

There are a few reasons for this, starting with their attitude towards Will's sexuality all the way back in season 1.

Homophobic language is used a lot in that season when referring to Will. Lonnie (Will's dad and also the worst person in the world) apparently used to regularly refer to Will using the q-slur and the f-slur. Troy (the bully) calls him a "fairy" and "gay", as well as using the q-slur himself and implying that Will's sexuality is the reason he went missing.

What I want to focus on here though is the Party's reaction. They always look uncomfortable and upset at what the bullies say about Will but they never try to deny it. Of course, there are a lot of potential reasons for this but it's notable considering that the Party do react to other things the bullies say about Will.

To put it in perspective, 90% of what the bullies say about Will is calling him homophobic names. But the only times when the Party actually speak up in defence of Will is when the bullies make fun of Will for going missing and joke about his death.

They clearly care about Will and are willing to an extent to speak up in his defence but comments about his sexuality aren't something they choose to defend or deny.

The other thing to keep in mind is that when the bullies mock the other boys it's for things that they are that they can't change. They make fun of Lucas for his dark skin, Dustin for being disabled and Mike for his looks. The Party don't talk back or try to deny these things because there's not much to deny. Lucas is black. Dustin is disabled and Mike... looks how he looks. Joyce told Hopper that Will is bullied for his clothes and his interests but that's not what Troy and his friend are interested in. You can change your clothes and your hobbies. You can't change your sexuality.

Another possible sign that Mike knows Will is gay is the notorious "it's not my fault you don't like girls" moment in season 3. Some people have interpreted this as "you don't like girls yet" (i.e. it's not my fault you're not as mature as the rest of us) but I personally think a queer reading is more likely within the wider context of the show. No one ever asks Will if there's a girl he likes or talks about "when you get a girlfriend" even though girls and dating are the main topic of conversation among the boys for the majority of season 3.

Will's reaction and the narrative emphasis placed on that line in particular also makes me think it has significance beyond just calling Will immature. When Mike says that line, Will flinches and looks deeply hurt and Mike looks immediately guilty. It definitely feels like some kind of unspoken boundary has been crossed.

Mike's emphasis on the word "friends" in his season 4 argument with Will feels similarly significant, almost like there's an unspoken "just" in there - "we're just friends".

Overall, the implication is (in my opinion) that Mike does know Will is gay - and probably has done since season 1.

So what's changed?

If Mike has known for years about Will's sexuality and always accepted it, where is this sudden awkwardness/discomfort coming from?

Well, the most obvious change since season 3 is that the Byers no longer live in Hawkins.

Mike touches on this when he apologises to Will for his weird behaviour and half-explains it in the vaguest way possible, saying that "it's been a weird year" and Hawkins "isn't the same" without him.

He also tells Will:

"I don't know, maybe I feel like I lost you or something, does that make sense?"

The most interesting part of this sentence for me is honestly how uncertain and non-committal it is - "I don't know", "maybe", "or something". He's undermining his own point with every other word. Either he's having a really hard time articulating his feelings here or he's intentionally trying to downplay them.

I must admit I was pretty confused by his explanation when I first heard it. If Mike felt he was losing Will why did he push him away further? And why did he feel he was losing Will but didn't feel the same way about El?

Having thought about it and rewatched the scene a couple of times, I'm assuming what he's getting at is that he thought on some level he'd already lost Will so pushing him away was a way of making that adjustment easier to deal with. That said, if there's a more obvious interpretation that I'm missing then please let me know!

Ultimately, for me there are two ways to look at this line. Either Mike is being very sincere and is struggling to get the words out because he's feeling vulnerable - OR he's being very insincere and is basically waffling a vague excuse in order to explain himself, resolve the fight and get on with looking for El as quickly as possible.

I must say, cynic that I am, on a first watch I was leaning towards the latter explanation. This statement is immediately followed up by Mike suggesting they make up because "it'll be easier if we're a team - friends."

Now that El is gone, fighting with Will is much less sustainable. Mike is stuck in California and he's gonna need all the help he can get to find her. The only other person he knows here is Jonathan (who is Will's brother and undoubtedly would be on his side)

So while I do appreciate Mike admitting he was in the wrong and apologising to Will, the effect is dampened slightly by the fact that Mike really didn't have much choice.

But to come back to my original point:

How might the Byers move have impacted Mike's behaviour?

If we take Mike's explanation that he felt like he'd "lost" Will at face value, there's a few ways that might have caused him to act differently.

Option 1: It's nothing to do with Will's sexuality or crush on Mike

There is a chance that Mike just feels like he and Will have grown apart. Mike's relationship with El and his disinterest in D&D caused a rift between them last season and now Mike is playing again, Will is no longer around to participate with him.

In a way, maintaining contact with El is probably much easier, because distance is the only thing that's changed between them. They can still talk about all the same things they used to and because they're dating it's more socially acceptable for Mike to open up to her and share his emotions.

With Will it's a bit trickier. Suddenly it feels like conversational topics are full of minefields. If Mike talks about D&D and the Hellfire Club will Will feel resentful that he only wants to play again now Will has left? If he talks about his relationship with Eleven will that be awkward now she's essentially Will's sister? He knows Will isn't interested in girls himself (and that it's been a point of tension for them in the past) so that's another topic to avoid. Of course they can still talk about games, movies, comics and their mutual friends. But a self-imposed pressure to censor himself or avoid certain topics might be putting Mike off contacting him.

El's letters talking about Will's painting and his possible crush might have made Mike feel even more distant from Will and guilty that he has no idea what's going on with him.

So that explains the lack of communication and maybe the weird half-hug, but what about the argument?

Well, if Mike is avoiding Will because he feels like he no longer knows how to talk to and/or act around him, Mike might be projecting his own guilt and insecurity about their friendship onto Will, hence his defensiveness and emphasis on the word "friends".

Option 2: Mike recently realised Will is gay and/or has a crush on him

Tbh if Mike really didn't know or suspect Will's sexuality in previous seasons, I find it hard to believe that now is when he would figure it out... When Will is hundreds of miles away and they've barely interacted in a year.

We know that Mike has been acting distant from Will for at least 6 months so if Mike's behaviour is connected to Will's sexuality it's likely this realisation would have been triggered by something in a letter or phonecall (either with Will or with El) sometime after the Byers moved away.

If it was something Eleven said, it may relate to something in the letter he was reading from her at the beginning of episode 2. In that letter El says she thinks Will might have a crush because he's been "acting weird". Not knowing Will is gay, El obviously assumes his crush is on a girl but Mike may have interpreted differently. It's possible that the idea of Will having a crush on a guy might make his sexuality feel "real" to Mike in a way it never has before.

If it was something Will said (in either a letter or phonecall) then presumably what exactly that is will be revealed and discussed in Volume 2. Until then it's hard to judge.

Option 3: Mike is struggling with his own same-sex attraction

This is the most interesting interpretation to me but sadly I also think it's the least likely (mainly cos the Duffer bros are heteronormative as fuck and I just don't think they'd go there)

But in terms of reading Mike's behaviour, it makes a lot of sense!

There are so many things that could have happened over the past year to make Mike start questioning his sexuality; meeting (and potentially crushing on) Eddie, his relationship with El becoming long-distance (and therefore less physically intimate), Will moving away (and Mike maybe missing him more than he expected)

And it would explain a lot about how he's been acting. Whether he's trying desperately to live up to the heteronormative standard set by his parents and peers or has genuine feelings for Eleven, he clearly wants his relationship with her to work out.

If he does have some level of attraction to Will it makes a lot of sense that he'd want to put some emotional distance between them to make sure his crush doesn't affect his relationship with El (and also because gay feelings = scary)

Even if he doesn't have a crush on Will but is questioning his sexuality, he's probably afraid that Will might suspect something, given that he is 1. Very perceptive and 2. Likely gay himself.

One of the reasons I like this theory so much (beyond shipping Byler and wanting more LGBT characters in general) is that it answers all my questions without leaving any loose threads.

Why has Mike been communicating so actively with Eleven but not Will?

Because his relationship with El helps him reinforce his heterosexuality whereas his relationship with Will has the potential to encourage questions and/or feelings he doesn't want to think about.

What was with that awkward hug and/or Mike ignoring Will at the roller rink?

Mike wants to distance himself emotionally from Will as a way to discourage his same sex attraction and/or any suspicions Will might have about it.

Why did Mike get mad at Will at the roller rink?

Because he felt guilty/conflicted about pushing Will away and frustrated that he can't tell him the real reason for it. He probably also felt angry at himself for failing to protect/be a "good boyfriend" to El and was projecting that onto Will. The "friends - we're friends" comment could also be Mike projecting and/or trying to establish a firmly platonic boundary between them.

Why won't Will tell El he loves her?

Either because he doesn't love her the way she wants him to or because he fears his same-sex attraction sullies or invalidates his love for her in some way (basically internalised biphobia)

Conclusion

Seems pretty gay (or bi) to me but is most likely just Mike and Will growing apart (yawn)

In my opinion it's implied that Mike has known or suspected Will is gay since season 1 and it seems unlikely he's only realising now. With that in mind, I currently don't see that being the cause of Mike's weird behaviour in season 4.

What do you think? If there are any other possible explanations I'm missing, please let me know!

#sorry this is so long #brevity is not my strength #stranger things #stranger things theories #stranger things meta #stranger things spoilers #st4 spoilers #will byers #mike wheeler #my posts #byler

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urdearestmom · 2 years

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I was going to add something onto your post (the long one that was a rebuttal to a byler). But I thought I'd just share my opinion in the ask box :) I read the whole thing and found a lot of that persons um "proof" for byler being a thing to almost be toxic? Let me explain. It's very clear that Mike is straight. And to put him in a box of being a closeted gay because of his emotions and love towards his friends is 1. What conservatives do and 2. Is a slap in the face to men who don't fit into the stereotypes of masculinity. I'm not saying Mike isn't masculine but how often on screen do we get a male character who cares SO DEEPLY for his male friends? Not often. It's becoming more common (thank goodness) however this all regresses when people say "oh he must be gay". WHY? Why must a man be gay when he shows that he loves his friends? When he expresses emotions? When he's sensitive and caring? It reminds me of the Lord of the Rings and how people say Frodo and Sam are gay but it's clear they are two best friends who LOVE EACH OTHER (not romantically). Tolkien even stated it's about deep friendship and was inspired by his friendships during the war. I can't help, as a lesbian woman, be so extremely frustrated to see stereotypes being uplifted by my own community. So the girls in the show (El and Max) can have a deep relationship and are clearly straight to the fan base but suddenly Mike is gay because he cares for his BEST FRIEND when he's going through supernatural trauma and events? I'm sorry I'm so angry. I know it's just a show but this sort of mentality can feed into our reality. I know gay boys who were shunned from their straight friends because of the mentality "he's gay so he must be into every dude" and any sort of loving tendency or reaction is "gross" to them now. Or that straight men can't show their emotions and be loving (hence why we have toxic masculinity). Same as a lesbian. I lost friends because they were grossed out and thought any sign of affection was romantic. It's regressive. It's harmful. And it's very clearly not the intention of the writers to make Mike gay, he is very clearly straight and in love with El. Now I'm curious to see what they do with will but this is more so about Mike not will since wills sexuality hasn't been stated but there are messages pointing to him being gay or maybe even asexual (they are just teenagers remember they don't have to date anyone). Sorry for the rant but your post inspired me to write this.

this is one of those things I’ve considered before but didn’t really feel I could speak on because I’m not LGBT+ myself and I don’t have the lived experience that you and so many others do, so thank you so much for sharing!

There is a deficiency in the number of gay characters in our mainstream media, which is a problem! There is also a deficiency in the number of men who are comfortable showing care and emotion to other people in general, much less their other male friends. Both of these problems exist because of homophobia. I think that it’s possible to uplift both

It’s why I like Byler as a friendship- Mike and Will can show that they care about each other and be vulnerable with each other outside the bounds of a romantic relationship, which I think is important for young men to see in media too!

#anon #ask #answered #urdearestmom

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aphlys88 · 2 years

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a mileven analysis/rant in relation to the other main ships in the show + me going off topic

Before you start this is not a pro-Mileven post or anything. Im going to analyze(or at least try) their relationship in relation to others, and relate that to how they're not making it out of s4 vol 2. STRANGER THINGS S4 SPOILERS IN THIS POST

This is also my first analysis of anything. if I get anything wrong pls correct me. this analysis/rant is all over the place lmao. I'm also writing this cus my stranger things brain rot is crazy rn.

I'd like to start out by saying I do think Mike loved/liked El in a romantic way at some point, most likely being in seasons 1 and 2. What the two of them had in the first two seasons is highly reminiscent of first love, or puppy love, because that's what it was Mike has never been in a relationship or really had a friendship(to my knowledge) with a girl. El was raised in a lab, Mike was one of the first people she met, he took her in, and the story goes from there.

I think the circumstances of their relationship also play a factor in their later relationships and eventually lead to their downfall. Mileven is very much a middle school, first love, puppy love relationship like I said before. 9/10 these don't work out. They're also kind of codependent on each other which isn't always good in s3. Milevens point out that Lumax and Dustin x Susie are other middle schools/first love relationships that work. However, these ships have many things in common as well as different from each other.

Lumax

Lucas and Max are a relationship that people like to bring up concerning Mileven. Like Mileven, they have their rough patches, but ultimately, they end up making up together in the end. In season 4, the obstacle facing Lumax is that Max doesn't want to open up to others, she shuts herself and her emotions off from people in her life, and doesn't let anyone know what's going on with her, or her life and Lucas not exactly "seeing her". This brings a problem that leads to their breakup, (Max is going through a lot, and doesn't feel fit for a relationship with anyone right now). However, we see that both of them try to take steps to fix the rift that is caused between them. Lucas admits that he wasn't there, and Max feels regretful for closing herself off. Although they haven't gotten back together in vol.1 This sets up the likely possibility of them getting back together in vol. 2.

Communication is what helped fixed the rift between them. Communication is something Mileven doesn't really have in this season.

Mileven + Me getting off track and ranting a little.

Mileven has essentially 3 rifts this season that are pushing them apart.

Mike not being able to say I love you/not listening.

El's lie

Mike's view of El.

Mike not being able to say I love you has been debated a lot since this season came out. Mike isn't the best at expressing himself, and it's also true that his parents are in a loveless relationship thus making it harder for him to say it, he can't even write it either. Which I think is important. Being able to write simply, "love Mike" should be something extremely simple for Mike to do. He doesn't even write it on the flowers that he's given El. It's because the love isn't there. Also, I don't like the argument that Mike and Nancy can't say I love you because of their parent's loveless relationship because Nancy can tell Jonathan "I love you" and tell other people she loves Jonathan. Mike can't even do this. She couldn't tell Steve she loved him, because she didn't love Steve. Simple. Stancy parallels Mileven also, but this has been discussed a lot on the Byler tag so I'm not gonna get into it.

El also lied to Mike. She didn't tell him about how bad things were for her and Will in California, which obviously makes Mike upset. It's understandable as to why she would lie, but in the end, it's still wrong. It's also interesting because her whole motto is "Friends don't lie,", and she finally lied. This isn't a small lie like what they broke up over in season 3, it's kinda major. It's also like the lie/secret with Jancy currently, where he didn't tell Nancy about not applying to their dream college, and lying and saying he didn't get a letter. These are both major things that could tear apart their relationship.

The final rift is Mike seeing her as a monster, and how his view of her has changed. In El's mind, the way Mike reacted toward the Angela debacle, is how Brenner reacted to her when he found her after she banished 001. He was scared, disappointed, and genuinely saw her as a monster, since he thought she caused all of this. I don't think Mike really saw her as a monster, it wouldn't make sense because he's seen her do so many worse things. Also, his view towards El has changed this season. He sees her more as someone who saved him, someone great, someone amazing who has superpowers. He idolizes her in a sense. It's seen in their fight in episode 3. He calls her a superhero, he feels as if other people are trying to ruin them, tearing them apart, etc. He obviously cares for her and loves her because he's hellbent on trying to get her back, but not because he loves her in that way. Idk I'm not good at explaining this. but anyways.

Also the take "The duffers aren't gonna make Byler canon because they spent 3 seasons building up Mileven, they're not gonna break them up for Will" is a bad excuse cus writers do it all the time in shows. (Riverdale, Bojack Horseman, You, Greys Anatomy, just to name a few). Also! When writers do this, it's to show over time the flaws in the relationship. It's to show that they weren't a perfect fit for each other, no matter how much the fans think it is. also queerbait but that's another rant.

Dustin and Suzie.

I'm making this section short cus there isn't much to say about/for them in relation to Mileven. In s3 and s4 Dustin and Suzie are on good terms. They're in a long-distance relationship along with Jancy and Mileven. Dustin also looks up to his girlfriend and has high praise for her, like Mike. Though he loves her for other reasons, and her being a "superhero" isn't a big thing about their relationship, why they got together, etc etc. Also, it seems that Dustin and Suzie communicated frequently(before she lost her stuff) and affirm their love for each other a lot that way. All Mike and El had were letters.

Season's 4 runtime is Just 5 minutes short of 4 hours. That's essentially 4 extra episodes fitting into Vol. 2. Though, even though this is a long time, most of this time will go to the storylines intertwining, and defeating Vecna. This isn't enough time to fix all the problems Mike and El have going on. I personally don't think the breakup will happen until everything's over and dealt with. I see it as a mutually healthy breakup, where they realize that they weren't the same 12/11-year-olds and have grown apart. El is growing and becoming her own person, Mike is probably trying to work out or realize his feelings for Will, and is coming to terms with the difference between loving and caring for someone. It would be best for them to part here and spend some time apart, which would set up perfectly for Byler in s5.

Where does Byler relate to all this?

Definitely endgame. I don't think it'll become canon in season 4, but I feel like realistically, the building blocks will be there for canonization in s5.

But in all actuality, I don't think Will is going to try and confess this season unless it gets vecna'd outta him. Since it's practically confirmed that he's gonna be a victim of Vecna. What I see happening, is Mike realizing his feelings towards Will while he's in danger, a scene with the painting after, which will affirm yeah he probably likes Will. Which will then push Mike and El to breakup, and for Mike to spend time to himself to try and figure out where he'll go from here.

TLDR: mileven isn't gonna workout and you cant use ships like lumax jancy stancy Dustin x Suzie etc to affirm how its gonna work out cus it's not lmao. also, Byler is def endgame, iont think it'll be canon in s4, but I do def see mike realizing his feelings towards will by the end of volume 2. byler canon byler real

#byler rights #byler tumblr #byler #byler is endgame #will byers #mike wheeler #byler is real #byler season 4 #mike and will #stranger things 4 spoilers #stranger things 4 #stranger things

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cirque-dhomosexual · 2 years

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I have just watched vol 2 and I have some thoughts! (Long post ahead)

Starting with the most obvious discussion point, I get why people find it difficult to label it as queerbait. You can definitely argue it's not because Will hasn't came out officially. He has been hinted at being gay but hasn't came out verbally. The issue is it kind of is because of how hyped it got given the actual statements of the actors (Noah, David, and Finn specifically) and test screening groups (netflixgeeked comments). Queerbaiting, as defined by wikipedia is "a marketing technique employed by fiction and entertainment in which a same sex relationship or other LGBT rep is hinted at yet not actually depicted to attract a queer/ straight ally audience with their suggestion yet avoid alienating their other costumers." Which i would argue is the case of how will and robin/vickie have been treated. Ofc it could have been way worse. Ofc it could have been like Merther, supercorp, johnlock, bechloe, or destiel. But that doesnt mean they weren't making it to be bigger than what it actually was. I'm not saying that because I genuinely hoped Will would come out or that byler would be canon but don't sit there and say it wasn't overhyped or not a marketing strategy. Noah, David, and even Finn made it out to be a huge plot point- or like something that was going expressed concretely. Will never came out. Will never affirmed his feelings. What we got was something more subtextual that would only make sense if you already thought Will was in love with Mike in the first place. More than that, they had to use Will as a stepping stool. He's constantly being pushed to the side or on to advance the plot or mileven in some way. The whole "you're the heart" speech was his way of expressing his love for Mike, yes. It was alluded time and time again that he is fully in love with Mike and that even Johnathan knows about it. The shitty thing isnt isn't that its hinted at, no. Its that he's going to sit here and suffer. They can't even show him move on. He's been stuck in this crush for how long? He can't even admit it to Johnathan. Personally, I think they should've allowed him to admit it verbally already if they wanted to push that narrative. Now, it's just Will being used as a ploy. For s5 I doubt his feelings will be addressed and even if by some slim chance they are, it most likely will end in rejection and heart break. That isn't exactly a win either. It's the gay character in love with straight bsf who wont ever return their feelings trope! It's something that gets pulled time and time again that we as a community deserve to veer away from now. It is accurate to so many lives, sure, but we should get more than that. Then say the even slimmer chance that byler does become canon. Do you think it will be developed in a satisfying way? Chances are it most definitely will not.

On to the whole rockie ordeal. Lets be honest, that was kinda bull. Would I be lying if I said they hyped her character to be more involved that what she was? No. Not at all. She barely had 5 minutes of accumulative screen time. Why was she even included into the plot if she had no substance? Her whole deal was she was just some chick :/ some chick Robin isn't even interested in at the end. If they wanted to push for Rockie so bad why not give them more screen time? Their scene together felt more like a crumb handed to us just so we can be placated- so they can say the one openly queer character gets something! I'm not saying this because I ship ronance but it feels cheap. Super cheap to just thrust Robin with a girl and expect them to have chemistry, regardless of how she felt in the beginning. There was better ways to write her in and show she was bisexual or even remotely interested in Robin. Of the 5 minutes we actually saw her she showed absolutely no interest. None. They could've added in something, literally anything of value IF she was going to be a love interest. The way they wrote it and advertized everything revolving these too feel so flimsy. I cant even tell if she was supposed to be an unrequited crush or not. If she was, why have the last few minutes of the last episode of the season show them? If not, why isnt she more involved? See how cheap that is? This definitely should not be counted as a win. Not for the characters, the relationship, and certainly not for the rep. Besides, why go through all the points and show how utterly devoted she is to Nancy? If we weren't supposed to ship them why even add the scenes in the first place?

Then their mistreatment to Nancy! Wow! She isn't some dolly the boys can fight over and be tossed from side to side! Steve and Nancy reconciling is beautiful. It is meaningful. Necessary for their characters even, but the way it should have happend was not through flirting. Their entire relationship being flirtatious and parallelling jancy in s2 was not needed and most likely thrown in for the commercial value. It was a ploy, lets just be honest about that. What gets me is how they absolutely need Nancy to be in some relationship or confused about who to be with! Why do all of that when regardless of who she gets with (out of steve and Johnathan) she's going to end up like her mother. On the obvious side, she was not happy with Steve. She liked him sure but was on some level settling for the "older boy who had money". Nancy didn't even look like she was happy with Steve declaring Nancy was in his life's dream. She looked like she was going to turn him down. In fact, that further solidifies the parallel between that and the superficial relationship between Karen and Ted. Like those Karen, Nancy is going to be stuck in a relationship with a man she cares about with kids and realize she is unhappy way later in the relationship. Then with Johnny, she's just going to be settling for the trauma bond. Season 2 and 3 showed us they love and care for eachother but cannot be compatible. Being unable to stay together because of class differences and even gender issues is real. They dont understand eachother's struggles on a fundamental level. Then they go off to be long distance. They are too disconnected from eachother to ever work out romantically. Season 4 built on that fact. Nancy didn't even look like she wanted to stay with Johnathan after he asked if they were OK. She just defaulted into a lie because it would hurt less. Johnathan choosing to stay in Cali and go to community college and completely forego their life plan then lie about it isnt something that screams endgame or even solid relationship! It just marks their downfall. It makes no sense for Nancy to be with either of them if I'm being honest. I may be a little biased here in saying this but it really should be Robin or no one. Robin is the only that makes sense to be with Nancy after everything that went down. It would be tasteless for Nancy to just get with some one we can't even root for (an issue I have with Rockie). If they really want to push for a relationship it should be with someone that is compatible, that makes her happy, and someone we know, otherwise it's just shoddy writing and sloppy for her character.

I'm just saying if you can't write it right then why include it at all, you know? What makes it all queerbaiting is the fact they singled out Will's emotional yet coded message to Mike to draw the community to watch it. It's the fact they alluded to this Vickie girl to being more than what she is. It's the fact that Will being gay became regular text through constant hinting by the cast rather than the scraps you had to squint at to see. What people who don't call it queerbait fail to see are the glaring flaws in advertising it in the first place. It can't just be labeled as shipping bitterness so simply. It is an actual issue. I don't see a problem in hoping for something more.

That being said however, I can't say vol 2 flopped. It did exactly what was promised (minus the whole reperesentation of queer relationships). I'm mad they wrote Eddie's death like that too! Don't get me wrong! But I can't say I was suprised it happend. I do agree with y'all here tho, it could have been executed/written better or avoided entirely. It didn't need to play out the way it did. It was gripping and tbh I was yelling at the TV more than I care to admit. That just goes to show how powerful it is. The cinematography was breathtaking and I enjoyed everything they did with vecna! I loved most characters and it did make me curious for what will happen in s5.

#just my silly light two cents #st an essay #not a shipping focused essay but does mention some #stranger things #stranger things season 4 #stranger things 4 spoilers #robin buckley #nancy wheeler #stranger things 4 #steve harrington

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strangertheories · 1 year

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Honestly, byler to me has become a stressful 'thing' now i cannot even enjoy it due to the whole discourse and drama surrounding it lol. Also it feels like the shipping culture kinda died because people just stopped shipping things for fun but it became a match where you have to prove your ship's 'validity' 'morality' or how it actually exists in canon and it should exist in canon (for this and that reason), and you have to constantly prove yourself that you are a master analysist and you Get The Narrative and that's why you ship this ship and if it doesnt become canon then it means the writing is dumb/poor and im like..? You dont really have to do all that and i get that sometimes feeling so passionately about shipping is natural part of fandom and i have been there and done that too, but this whole narrative and mindset surronding it is just really tiring. if a ship makes you this stressed and traumatized and if it happens you say stuff like 'imma kms' maybe just kinda take a step back idk. I ship ron/nce and i adore their dynamic, but i am well aware that it is not going to happen even if i see a certain level of dynamic between nancy and robin. and i get that it is different for will since will is canonically into mike now but the overall point still stands. you can still like a ship even if it doesnt become canon you dont have to try so hard to prove its existence or validity since the shipping is usually supposed to be... fun.

Anon, I'm convinced I somehow sent this to myself because I'm exactly the same. I get being critical of the show's queer rep and plot if Byler isn't canon or being disappointed which we saw a lot of post volume 2, but yeah. Being a Byler shipper has become not fun™ and it's become a requirement that you think it's going to be endgame in order for you to ship it. And I also think the sense of superiority a lot of Byler shippers have about being great critical thinkers or having media literacy can make it feel scary to ever question anything anyone ever says, although most people were actually quite supportive when I spoke about this. All of that to say, letting go of Byler endgame before S4 has been great for me; I love analysing and theorising about Byler without the pressure of needing it to be canon.

And I know people will read this as "you shouldn't be bothered by the show using Will" but what I and I believe the anon is trying to say is that fandom should be built off of fun and wanting your ship to have content because you enjoy it, not because you're terrified it's not gonna be canon. Easier said than done, but I think you need to take care of yourself and your mental health too. I'm not famous or anything but I have quite a few followers now and I'm not going to lie or guarantee 100000% that it will be canon because I just do not know and I genuinely think people's mental health will be damaged because they've been hyping up an expectation of ST5 for years.

If shipping Byler has become too stressful for you, try take a break for a bit (I've been posting less over the last few months partially because of this too). Especially since we all have hiatus brain where expectations and theories become more and more wild because we have to keep digging deeper into the same content. I'm so scared that S5 will come out and it doesn't happen because I like a lot of people in this fan community and if Byler isn't canon, we'll get angry posts for a couple of months and maybe some theories about interference or deleted scenes (this happen post S4 a bit as well) but then it's gone ): the community revolves more about being 100% sure Byler will happen instead of enjoying the pairing of Mike and Will so without canon Byler, I don't know what will remain.

Thanks for the ask, anon. Also Ronance forever! <3

#byler #byler doubt #not really but in case you don't wanna read about it not being canon #it's more about mental health #however it talks about the possibility of byler not being endgame

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