#stancy for plot reasons

[estrellami-1]

If I Should Stay

Part 1 | . . . | Part 4 | Part 5 | Part 6

Steve slides down the wall as soon as he’s in the bathroom, hands going to his hair, gripping hard as he tries to remember how to breathe.

“Steve?” Robin says. “The door’s locked, it’s just us. What’s going on?”

“I don’t know if I can do this, Robs, I look at her and all I see is bullshit, and I know she’s got questions, and fuck, she probably thinks I’m cheating on her, which I’d never do, but she- and Jonathan-”

“Whoa,” Robin says, grabbing his hands. “Deep breaths, Steve-o, we’re gonna make it through this. I will absolutely flirt with Nancy if it helps on the accusation front. I told Eddie the kids like D&D, so hopefully…” she trails off, listening, and they both smirk when they hear Eddie, already in character. “That didn’t take long.”

“He’s a good guy,” Steve says. “And they’re good kids. Mostly.”

Robin snorts. “Mostly,” she agrees. “Listen, why don’t you break up with Nancy? Nothing else happens between the two of you, right? So we tell everyone what’s going on, you pull Nancy aside—I’ll come for moral support if you want—and explain what happens and tell her you can’t see her anymore.”

“You don’t think it’ll mess with the whole timeline thing?”

“Steve. Buddy. We’re telling a group of twelve-year-olds about something that happens four years in the future. The timeline’s well and truly fucked. You weren’t happy with her, not after Barb, right? Because the stories you told me painted you as being miserable.”

Steve sighs. Reclaims one of his hands to run it through his hair. “Yeah.”

“Okay then. And hey,” she says, moving to sit next to him. “Maybe if you break up with her now, you can do something about your crush on a certain someone.”

“Robs, c’mon,” he complains. “Even if I did, what happens after? When we go back to ‘87? Are there three years of memories I don’t have? Do we break up before you and I go back, and pick it up again four years later? And what if we fail and he dies anyways? What then, Robin?”

She leans her head on his shoulder with a sigh. “I dunno, Dingus. But hey, I’m here.”

He offers her a half-smile before laying his head on hers. “Yeah. You are.”

A knock on the door startles them. “Uh, Steve?” It’s Nancy. She sounds oddly apprehensive. “Eddie’s doing a great job at keeping the kids occupied, but we’d all like to know what’s going on.”

Steve sighs and pushes his face into Robin’s hair for a second before turning back to the door to answer. “Yeah. We’ll be right there.”

Nancy doesn’t answer. The first time around, it was something Steve had found endearing. She didn’t have time to waste on meaningless words. Now, it irks him a little bit.

“C’mon,” Robin says gently. “You can fall apart again after, but there’s no use catastrophizing over something that hasn’t happened yet.”

He quirks his mouth up at her. “Right, ‘cause you’ve never been dramatic a day in your life.”

She rolls her eyes. “I’m a band kid, Steven, of course I’m dramatic.” She begins to smirk. “Besides, not like you mind when it’s-”

“Okay,” he says, but they’re both smiling as he unlocks the door.

They go downstairs and he smiles at the sight of everyone on the couch, enraptured, as Eddie’s crouched on the coffee table, eyes wide, monologuing. Steve casts his eyes around, taking everyone in, and starts to frown. “Where’s El?”

Nancy’s the first to break out of the reverie. She looks around, brows furrowed, then slaps at Mike’s arm until he slaps back. “What?”

“Where’s El?”

“She’s right- oh.” Saucer-wide eyes turn to Nancy. “I don’t know.”

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#if I should stay #stranger things #steve harrington #eddie munson #robin buckley #nancy wheeler #platonic stobin #stancy for plot reasons #endgame steddie #steddie #time travel fic #fix it fic #starambles

[tryingonametaphor]

rewatching st for the first time since s4 (making my dad watch it for the first time) and steve/nancy and mike/el… 😬

#i need to know why people who watched the show believe mike’s love at first sight claim #? #s01e02 is literally proof that it’s not #love at first sight isn’t even a good trope but IF it were to be in a show they’d portray it like anthony/kate in bridgerton #not whatever this was #and don’t even get me started on stancy #WHY WOULD YOU WANT THEM BACK TOGETHER #THEYRE THE SHOWS WORST PAIRING #BLEGH #they’ve grown SO MUCH since their break up and they’re NOT built for the second chances trope #like even if nancy doesn’t end up with jonathan she really shouldn’t end up with steve #also mike calling el his cousin…. #el asking mike if he is gonna be like her brother #i can’t believe i shipped them in 2016 but i was also a kid back then so… #that being said #i missed mike and el and lucas and dustin from s1 tho #AND JOYCE. she was at her prime that season #unbeatable #and i also miss how important will was to the plot. i refuse to believe that it’s been three years since in s4 and mike treats him like that #for no reason at all. like that’s just not mike #actually it’s strange that everyone. literally EVERYONE barely cares about will in s4. almost too weird. #and missing his bday too #there’s something happening #thoughts #stranger things

[mabelmidnight-takeover]

i have a lot of complaints about vol.2 actually

#stranger things #stranger things spoilers #first of all #what the hell was all that jancy stancy shit #why the fuck are jancy about to break up #cali gang was just a plot device to get el to a safe place thats fucking bullshit #2/4 cali gang used to be main character and one of the other two was right up there with them #the whole season had el figuring out who she is and her powers for herself just for them to make her only get strength to defeat vecna #with mikes confession???? smth that happened entirely bc of will #not hopper not mike you but then shes only able to attack vecna again with the power of love #dont let me get started on the queerbait shit bc that was a new level of awful #will is getting more sidelined than ever he's becoming just the radar again #all the hype about the massacre and eddie being the only one to die i actually laughed at how ridiculous it was #killing eddie was not the cool move you thought it was #so i guess i cant defend mike anymore bc if theres no reason behind his behavior he's just a terrible friend #I DID ENJOY MAX SAYING FUCK BILLY APOLOGISTS #vol.2 had way more potential than it was used #i also enjoyed all of them being needed to defeat vexna #vecna

[wakeupthemembersofbylernation]

If Mike really loved El romantically, they wouldn’t have dragged out a weird plot of not being able to say ILY for two seasons. One season? Sure. I can let Season 3 slide somewhat if one discounts all the queer longing that takes place and the odd finale kiss. You could interpret S3 as an awkward kid building up the courage to say the L word.

But two seasons? Nah. If the first interpretation were true, things would’ve been resolved when El confesses that she loves him back at the end of S3. But things were not resolved? And the show goes out of its way to emphasize that Mike isn’t even writing “I love you” in his letters? And they have a big, explosive fight about it… and he still can’t say it? Nah Michael, I diagnose you with homosexuality.

“But saying I love you is scary and a big deal and yada yada…” Okay sure. Saying ILY is a big deal. But middle school kids still say it pretty casually. And they certainly at least write it. It’s not uncommon for a kid to drop the “L” bomb to someone they’ve only been dating for a short period of time, only to break up the next day. Things are fluid and chaotic and unpredictable and messy. In Romeo and Juliet, Romeo thought he was in love with Rosaline until seeing Juliet, and he immediately changed his mind.

But even if we just assume it’s harder for Mike to say ILY to El because Mlvn is serious and more meaningful than a fleeting crush, that still doesn’t let Mike off the hook. If Mlvn really is as soulmate-coded as Mlievens believe, when have you ever heard of a soulmate-coded relationship in media where the writers went out of their way to show that saying ILY was like pulling teeth? Imagine if there was a whole section of Titanic where Jack struggled with saying ILY to Rose? Imagine Leia got into a fight with Han because he couldn’t write “love” in his romantic letters, and Han was all like, “I care for you so much, Leia.”Imagine Katara pulled out the receipts, and Aang was like, “Okay, okay. Katara, you’re being ridiculous. Like what is this?”

That would be absurd. And you’d either demand an explanation or stop rooting for them. It’s not that ILY isn’t often a big deal in stories. It’s that when it’s emphasized in a weird way and dragged out for two seasons, you have to side-eye it. It’s one thing when the big ILY is the logical and natural culmination of an arc, whether at the end of a season or the end of a series. That makes sense. It’s another thing entirely when someone is literally begging you to say it, and you still can’t say it. And then when you finally do say it, it’s in the penultimate season, and it’s extremely anticlimactic. And everyone has to emphasize how you said it 9 times to cope/compensate.

If Mlvn was meant to be endgame, and Mike really loved El romantically, they would’ve just… shown Mike and El being in love with each other. There wouldn’t be any doubt. None of the other couples, other than Stancy, have ever gone through this weird kind of ritual where words are emphasized over actions. No one doubts that Lumax, Jopper, and Duzie are in love with each other. Jancy is a little more complicated cause they were separated throughout S4 and doubts were raised, but even so, it’s nowhere near the odd situation with Milkvan. Jancy, Lumax, Jopper, and Duzie have all shown they love each other through their actions. They don’t rely on big gestures or words to prove it. In fact, Lucas even specifically says to Max, “I don’t want a letter.”

All I’m saying is, if Mlvn is treated with a considerable lack of seriousness post Season 2, if the show keeps them in a weird Groundhog Day plot of constant fights and lies and not being on the same page, and if it takes a third party with vested romantic interest in the situation for Mike to finally monologue a measly ILY to his girlfriend, then maybe there’s a reason for this? 🤔

#byler #mike wheeler #will byers #mike wheeler i know what you are #stranger things #Byler endgame #el hopper

[tineteenieworld3]

I desperately need mlvn or just people in general to understand what build up means.

Mlvn has not been building to anything, it’s stagnant, there’s nothing building and there has rarely ever been anything building. If anything, it’s been collapsing.

There’s no tension, there’s no shift from friendship to romance. There’s a collapse.

This is a very vague definition, but here:

Buildup is a noun that refers to an increase in something, usually tension or pressure. In literature, you could think of the rising action plot phase as a buildup to the climax.

AN INCREASE IN SOMETHING. Mlvn is stagnant at best, nothing is growing and getting better. One huge reason for that is the lack of quality time these characters spend together. Nothing grows intimately between them.

Mlvn is not a built up relationship and has not had build up. Neither did Stancy, neither did Joyce and Bob. Buildup isn’t just something every single on screen couple has lmao.

#byler

[nakianshuri]

Not to wade too deeply in the "Nancy is selfish/always right posts" I've being seeing lately, but I don't think that's the problem with how Nancy is written.

Yes, when it comes to the plot and solving mysteries, Nancy is always right. But Dustin is mostly if not always right, too, and so is Robin. The show has a lot of characters who are right about things. But all of those other characters get to have moments of levity. Moments where the show isn't taking them so seriously. Robin is brilliant and always right, but she rambles, she's awkward, she talks to Steve about things unrelated to the plot. Dustin is brilliant and drives a lot of the plot because he's always right, but he's also awkward, funny, a know-it-all who needs to be humbled sometimes, and gets to engage in conversations and activities unrelated to the plot.

El is another character who I'd say is mostly if not always right and the most traumatized character on the show, but she gets moments to be fun, funny, and has scenes completely unrelated to the plot. S3 gave her an entire montage of trying on clothes at the mall for no reason except to show her gaining a friend and building up her own voice and identity.

We arguably don't see this with Nancy. When it comes to her emotional life outside of her trauma and the plot, she's underwritten. We never see her appear to enjoy herself as much as she did at Steve's pool party, when we're told through Jonathan and Barb that she pretending to be someone else. Right after Barb's death and then in the seasons afterwards when she's with Jonathan, we mostly if not only see one side of her: the driven and determined side, whether that's her on a crusade to get justice for Barb, or to be taken seriously at her summer internship, or when she's working on the school yearbook. There's no downtime, barely if any scenes of her and Jonathan talking about anything other than their shared trauma, the plot, and their career/academic goals. After season 1, we don't see her have a casual conversation with Mike what she's going through or what his life is like.

With the exception of talking about Steve and Jonathan, her conversations with Robin are about the plot. I mean, I have no problem with Robin and Nancy as friends, but why are they friends? Nancy was rude to Robin until she realizes she and Steve aren't dating, but perhaps Robin sees Nancy's unhappy and needs a friend? I'd accept that, but I'd also argue that Robin and Nancy's friendship is a lesser version of El and Max's. Both friendships start off with El and Nancy being rude to Max and Robin, respectively, out of jealousy. But we get to see Max and El become friends before the plot enters the story: El needs Max's help with boy problems, Max gives her advice, they bond, they play around at the mall, have a sleepover, then they get dragged into the plot. Robin and Nancy don't get that in part because of how s4 is structured, but also because we just don't get Nancy outside of her ambitions, shared trauma, and the plot. Nancy's not a character we ever see just hang out.

And lastly, Stancy. I love Stancy oddly enough because of the reason they broke up: it as the last time she got to be a stupid teenager like everyone else on the show. But for me it also works for me because the show has given Steve time apart from the plot to grow. I've seen some people say the show doesn't care enough about Steve, but I don't believe that at all. Sure, we haven't seen his parents, but his whole arc is about how he grows not only because of the plot but because of his relationships with other people: Nancy, Dustin, and Robin primarily. He's given a chance to be selfish, pigheaded, bitchy, dumb, and wrong, and then to apologize, be a good friend, be selfless, and wisely reflect on his behavior in a productive way that doesn't leave him stuck in a cycle of guilt about his past behavior. Nancy needs this same treatment. The majority of the self-reflection Nancy gets to do is about Barb, and its to wrongly blame herself for her death and to be stuck in avenging mode. She has a great conversation with her mom in which she seems to regret how she's disregarded Jonathan, but it's mostly there to reaffirm that she's right not for her to consider if she went about things the right way. We have also never heard her reconsider if she went about her relationship with Steve the right way either. Does she regret how that ended? Does she regret dating him for a year despite appearing to want Jonathan? We don't know.

I think Nancy is a fascinating character, and I never expect any show to be perfect or to replicate how I envision these characters. But I do hope that in its last season we get to see another side to her.

#nancy wheeler #stancy

[thestobingirlie]

Hi! I hope you don’t mind non-anonymous asks.

Firstly, I wanted to say thank you for being one of the loudest voices of reason of this godforsaken fandom.

Secondly… Can I also share my complains? I feel like I’ll die if I won’t talk about it.

I feel like you probably talked about it before, but still these whole “Eddie being the only person in entire group who understands him” trop started a new era of fics where Steve is almost literally hated by Dustin & the party, no one (from Dustin to Hopper) supports him (except for Eddie, of course. Look at out knight in shining armor) and even Robin (EVEN ROBIN GODDAMNIT) abandons him.

And I don’t know where is this desperate desire to isolate Steve from his found family comes from (well, actually, I have a couple ideas)…

These trop also might seem one of the reasons why shovel talks trop became so popular. And again, in this kind of things, everyone in the group suspects the worst about Steve. But… I mean, in my head, the only person who will receive shovel talks from literally everyone would be Eddie. I imagine that even Mike will show up just to say something “y’know dude, you’re cool and I admire you, but if you hurt Steve I smash your head with your guitar). God, there so much potential for Steve & the party dynamics. So much potential for Steve’s and Mike’s dynamic to explore, but no. Of course, we’ll chose the most toxic, abusive and horrendous relationship dynamic to ever exist.

These “Hellfire club feat. Eddie acting like disrespectful pigs while being guests at Steve’s”… And Steve being a helpless damsel in distress who locks up in his room and cries instead of kicking these assholes out… Lord, give me strength.

This top/bottom, dom/sub shit… Look, I actually headcanon Steve as bi. And. I think that he most likely prefer to be bottom. (Not because he’s weak helpless cry baby who can’t stand up for himself), but because he takes care about everyone so much, that he will probably want for once be the person who receives care from his partner. However, this shit with feminisation and infantilisation of Steve went too far. I mean, you want to ship Eddie with someone fragile, feminine, gentle and someone who will actually cry when people being mean to them? Chrissy Cunningham is right there. There’s nothing wrong with shipping f/m ships. I’m telling ya, your taste hasn’t “upgrade” just because you started shipping mlm.

It’s one thing when people recognise that they’re writing toxic, even abusive relationship. But the way some harringrove fics recently started looked better in comparison with some (actually most) steddie fics is just sending me… Yeah, steddies be like “harringrove is this”, “stancy is that” and then write most horrific, toxic and unhealthy shit ever.

Don’t even get me started on this “Robin starts to care less about Steve/stops caring about Steve at all because of Nancy, or other shitty idea for the plot of another shitty fic”… Just fuck ya’ll. Seriously.

Again, thank you very much.

And honestly, the way that rockie is (most of the time) in the love triangle fics in which ronance is endgame…

I mean, the most popular fic with rockie is actually a Steve-centered fic (and it’s good, cause it captures Steve’s dynamic with the party) with rockie being a background ship.

And the second most popular rockie fic is actually a ronance fic with vickie being abuser & manipulator. Ronance shippers stop making Vickie gross and rockie as a whole about ronance challenge. Level impossible.

And this is my villain origin.

hi! i totally don’t mind non-anon asks, send away!

i love being called a voice of reason lmao. so thank you very much.

it’s honestly insane the extent that people feel they have to go to to make eddie seem… more important to steve? they have to totally isolate steve from 90% of his friendships. make characters prefer eddie, and say horrible shit to steve, all to make eddie seem like a good option. the only person that treats steve well. that doesn’t spit on him and treat him like shit. and even then that’s often accompanied by eddie’s friends treating steve like shit and eddie going along with it. it’s just ridiculous (and screams of abusive dynamics, but that’s by the by).

shovel talks my beloathed. they suck a lot anyway because people aren’t always great at writing them lmao. but literally the character within steddie that would be receiving shovel talks… eddie!

i mean. these shovel talks also typically happen in a universe where steve saves eddie’s fucking life. and people still feel the need to write all of steve’s friends and families as warning him against hurting eddie. like. wtf lmao.

the way steve and the party dynamics have been left out to die… take me back to a post s2 world!!!!!!!

don’t get me started on the hellfire fics. got steve acting pathetic when my baby boy is a BITCH!!!!

it’s actually so crazy how reactive steddies got about hellcheer and then went to such efforts to deconstruct steve’s character and turn him into chrissy. just fucking ship hellcheer!!!

all that drama about steddies finally being a “good” steve ship, and trying to write the most fics. all to create a toxic and abuse dynamic that rivals harringrove… alright. okay.

so many dynamics suffer at the hands of people prioritising romance and prioritising eddie and it’s literally depressing lol.

rockie was never even given a chance!!! from day one other shippers have done all they can to vilify vickie and for what? because she’s a cute bisexual that loves robin???? let my girl fucking live!!!

#anti fanon steddie #steve harrington #eddie munson #rockie #stranger things #asks #ibellcipem

[fics-n-stuff]

I feel like people these days are getting WAY too comfortable with just expecting/demanding things to go exactly the way that they want in TV shows, and I'm seeing a lot of it in the Stranger Things fandom with season 4 coming out. Like, obviously you're allowed to be annoyed about certain plot points and character beats if you dont like them, and you can voice your opinions on what would have made them better, but I don't understand all these people that I'm seeing getting mad/disappointed with the writers because things aren't happening the way that they themself wanted. You can't get mad at the writers for writing the story that they want to tell and not the one you want to see. It doesn't make it bad writing, it doesn't make it bad character development, it doesn't make it a bad show, it just makes it something that you personally don't like and that's fine.

With Stranger Things 4 I'm mostly talking about the stuff I've been seeing people say about ship dynamics. Ship whoever you want, that's your prerogative, but don't get mad at the Duffers and the writing team for not writing your ship into canon. You ship Byler? Good for you, I'm glad you have this thing that you enjoy, but don't go around calling the writers cowards or homophobic for not making it canon. It doesn't have to be canon. You don't like the Stancy arc this season? Me neither, but I'm not mad at the writers for writing their characters the way that they want to, and I'm certainly not using faulty logic to argue with their decisions. Steddie(Steveddie?) and Ronance (is that the ship name?) are cute, and they don't have to be canon for you to enjoy them.

Obviously I'm not talking about the vast majority of people and shippers, but I've seen some people acting really fucking entitled about their shipping opinions this season and it just makes me kind of annoyed because it's not your show? Like, write fanfic if you want content for your ship. Fanon is just as legitimate a way to enjoy media as canon. A show doesn't have to do exactly what you want it to for you to enjoy it, and it certainly doesn't have to do what you want it to for it to be good.

And I also wanted to address the weird amount of Eddie hate I've been seeing because people think he's a Billy copy? I mean, if you truly believe that then fine, I'm not going to tell you that you're wrong, but I just don't see it? I see maybe 3 reasons why there could be a logical argument for that, but they're all super surface level. I don't think Eddie is anything like Billy, and I think a lot of people don't actually think he's a Billy copy but they just don't like that a new character has been brought in to, what it feels like to them, "replace" a character that they liked. Eddie is a good new character and he deserves for people to give him a chance. I don't mean to shit on your fav but canon Billy kinda sucked, and I think what a lot of people are seeing in Eddie as what makes him a copy of Billy is actually their thoughts on Billy in fanon. Idk, if you have an actual logical argument for why Eddie is a Billy copy I'm down to hear it, but don't expect me to agree.

I just think that sometimes people need to take a step back and realise that the writers are not obligated to cater to your singular opinion, and if the choices they make mean that you don't like the show anymore then that's fine, you don't have to keep watching. But honestly, I hate it when people let their opinions turn the fandom toxic and I really want to avoid that as much as possible so please please just tone it down with the vitriol towards the writers and towards each other. We're all allowed to enjoy or not enjoy things in whatever way we want.

#stranger things #stranger things season four #stranger things 4 #stranger things ships #mike wheeler #will byers #byler #mileven #steve harrington #nancy wheeler #stancy #jancy #eddie munson #robin buckley #steddie #steveddie #ronance #billy hargrove #shipping culture #fandom culture

[jeroidk]

Maybe it's because i finished vol.2 just like an hour ago and because i feel empty inside and not in a good way but

Even without the queerbaiting, i feel like this episodes were just awful.

Mike had a total of 0 development, 0 depth. Actually, i feel like they fucked up the development he had in the previous seasons and vol.1

His life started when he met El in the woods? Did they really just reduced him to Eleven's love interest when he used to be the main character? When he had the most beautiful friendship with Will in s1-s2?

Mike is his own whole person. "My life started when i met you" my ass. What happened to "you said yes. It was the best thing i've ever done"???? Talk about ruining a character.

And they didn't even gave us an explanation as to why he was acting like an asshole? All of that just because he couldn't say "i love you" to El because of no reason at all? Was the "because what if they don't like the truth?" just for nothing?

And don't even get me started on the painting reveal. It had SO much potential, it could have been such an important moment for both Mike and Will's development but it didn't do anything. Noah gave such an amazing performance with the crying and the speech but it lead to nothing. Will is just the "sad gay in love with his best friend" trope. At least he had a little beautiful moment with Jonathan, so i guess that's something.

But they didn't even adressed Will's sexuality at all. It was kept in the subtext. We all know Will is gay but they didn't commit to his plot line. I'm not even asking about a full-on coming out scene for various reasons but they could have made a scene like when Robin came out to Steve. She didn't need to say "i'm a lesbian" but the message was there, loud and clear. But no, Will didn't deserve that apparently, even when that's all the plot line he had this season because he keeps getting pushed to the side. HE USED TO BE A MAIN CHARACTER. I HATE THIS.

And his cute speech to Mike was used for Mileven? Just so Mike could say "i love you" to her? It's that all gay people can expect when it comes to representation in a mainstream show? To be used to build a hetero couple that's been falling for 2 seasons?

And the Stancy plot line lead to nothing. And Jancy is still just there, existing, slowly losing all that made them super likeable in the first seasons.

And they killed Max, but now El has healing powers? What the fuck was that, it felt so deux-ex-machina. Also, i'm sorry if some of you found it good, but the whole piggyback felt so anticlimatic to me. Why was there a memory from little max??? It didn't serve any purpose???

And we had this villain who can literally feed on people's trauma, which was the most awesome scenario to reveal what's been going on inside Mike's head, but no, all we had was just another epic fight between El and the big bad, like every season.

What a waste of time.

#stranger things 4 #stranger things 4 vol.2 spoilers #stranger things spoilers #mike wheeler #will byers #byler #vecna

[wewebaggit]

Byler sex scene is NOT happening. Neither is the fade to black. This is not about queer sexuality is bad, long live straight sex. It is just not that show. The last time this discourse happened it was basically about kissing and also about what fanfic authors were being allowed to write in their fanfics. ST the show itself is not gonna be giving gay sex. May I direct you to a fine aesthetically pleasant movie called red white and royal blue balls.

Anyway. The reasons are many. The tone of the show. If we say that the show is gonna be realistic with its portrayal then when the hell did these boys get time to learn about gay sex? In the middle of a monster crisis mind you. For all that we talk about not rushing the gay acceptance arc, and being confident in byler coming into being in the penultimate episode if not the finale, we seem to be incredibly comfortable with the idea of a sex scene (implied or not doesn't matter). They're 14-16. This isn't Jopper or even Stancy (that had time to develop even if that time was implied) or Jancy (which also had both the parties aware of each others feelings but being wilfully reticent to pursue those). Byler is set up as a plot twist or a slow burn (take your pick, but only one) and either of these means that there's not gonna be time or justification for the existence of such a scene. It's also been left for S5 which already has way too many loose ends that need to be tied.

No Arya Stark in ST. And even that was quite pathetic.

#byler #stranger things #wewe's opinionions

[loverghoul]

I was rewatching s4 and im so intrigued by the idea that the resurgence of the stancy plotline is directly linked to Nancy’s guilt for barb & in so her connection with vecna.

When vecna takes her in ep 7, it’s after the majority of the stancy flirting subplot, and what I find so interesting is that vecna tells her, specifically ‘when I kill someone, I never forget.’ Majorly, the stancy breakup is due to Nancy’s guilt over the death of barb and how her & Steve’s relationship is forever entwined with the death of barb; the two plots are interwoven.

And Nancy’s eventual dismissal of Steve is when she says to him ‘like we didn’t kill barb.’ So I know very many people (like myself) are confused at why stancy made a resurgence in the plot of s4, but I do also find it interesting that vecna targets (and explains his origins/intentions to) Nancy specifically after the majority of the Steve/Nancy flirting plotline in s4. Afaik, the only other Steve/Nancy scene we see after vecna targets Nancy is the ‘6 nuggets’ scene, in which she directly states his dream is a ‘total nightmare,’ far more in line with Nancy’s character s2-forward. I don’t really have a conclusion, other than vecna’s target for Nancy does seem to be entwined with her guilt over barb and therefore the (imo incongruous) sudden stancy of s4.

It’s just v interesting to me, on rewatch, that Steve/Nancy seemed to come back out of nowhere, at a time when vecna randomly seeks Nancy out to explain his origins & his plans to her, for no reason other than ‘plot.’ And that vecna targets those who seem to hold a great amount of shame (and in case of Max & Fred, guilt over the death of another), and mentions to Nancy specifically that he never forgets someone he’s killed, while audience have known for seasons that Nancy herself thinks she ‘killed’ Barb in s1.

#steve harrington #nancy wheeler #stancy #stranger things 4 #vecna stranger things #love speaks

[starry-eyed-steve]

I've been thinking a lot the past couple of days about the friendships of Stranger Things, especially the teen/adolescent group, and how people just come together with no problems, avoiding the personal conflicts that should come up. The major problem is that unlike the kids who were friends before, the teens are only together because of trauma and romance instead of friendship. The initial trio, which is the basis, didn't like each other before. Steve and Nancy were not friends. They were romantically interested in each other. Jonathan and Steve hated each other, Nancy and Jonathan were sorta friends, but not really. So that's already complicated and not ideal because Steve and Jonathan still didn't like each other after everything, and then Nancy left Steve for Jonathan, which left Steve alone until he found Robin. So that's the core dynamic of the older kids group. And because there is not enough time in the show, we get a watered-down version of those characters working together to save the world. Sometimes, they even act OOC just so we can focus more on the overall plot. You know when you watch a scene and you go no, they wouldn't say that or no, they wouldn't do that? That's how I felt the majority of time for s4. And as much as I love the found family trope and I understand why people just want everyone to get along, I genuinely believe the teen group realistically would dislike each other. And I need more fics exploring that lmao.

Stranger Things really robbed us by not giving us 20 episodes to develop characters and explore their complicated feelings to others. Like 3/6 (7 if you count Vickie) have beef with each other, there is just too much tension between Steve and Jancy it would totally affect the others. I also think if we had more time, those groups could venture out and meet more people who later become their friends. Like I'm curious about Nancy's two friends that were mentioned in s2, it would be nice seeing the main characters outside the group interacting with others. People act like the teens can only find friends within their little circle.

(Disclaimer: This is not a dig on any character, I just find it interesting exploring dynamics like this. Like give me the drama)

Steve wouldn't want to hang out with Jancy. He is still hung up on Nancy, and it hurts him to watch them together. Between seasons, they already don't hang out because why should they. And when Steve finds out or realizes Nancy let him in the belief that he was the only one who was wrong in their relationship despite the major reason for her to break up was she wanted to be with Jonathan for a long time, I think Steve, I wouldn't say he would be pissed, but he would definitely be hurt when it clicks. His entire world view would shatter, like his love life already suffers because he thinks he was a bad boyfriend, so he developed attachment issues and trust issues (hence the serial dating in s4). Nancy really did a number on him, and he never got closure from her, and we still see the aftermath years later. I also don't see Jonathan and Steve be best buddies because of that. Jonathan just doesn't want to be friends with his girlfriend's ex, who potentially still has feelings for her. Same with Nancy, why would she want to hang out with her ex, who is clearly hurting because he is still into her.

It's also implied that Jancy shit talks about Steve behind his back in s4, by Jonathan bringing up the Steve comment unprompted to make Nancy laugh, and he was genuinely shocked when she didn't this time. I mean, they don't really care about Steve's feelings. They slept together 2 days after the Stancy fight and never showed remorse for it. I genuinely don't see them being bffs, lol. I also don't see Jancy wanting to stay in touch with the others, especially Nancy, who just wants to move forward, go to college, and heal from the past few years. Her ex and his bff would be unpleasant reminders. If Jancy breaks up, both of them would go their own ways. Nothing would hold them in Hawkins. Jonathan would still have Argyle, and Nancy would make new friends at university, but both wouldn't really stay in touch with the others.

The whole monster hunting trio had so much potential to become friends if the show hadn't done Stancy and Jancy. But I can't ignore it and if they make Stonathan friends in the last season, idk if I want this because too much happened between them, it would seem ooc for both to want to spend time together outside of the UD shit.

Robin would be on Steve side. If he wasn't cool with Jancy, she wouldn't be cool with them either. She's your ride or die buddy. If you hate someone, she's like no WE hate them. Robin is also a person who would hate people for Steve, like him still trying to be civil towards Jancy because of his feelings for Nancy, but Robin is like no fuck that you hurt my bff you're on my list, I'm side-eying you. She would encourage Steve to move on by not interacting with them all together. After he receives closure, he should move forward.

With Eddie, I don't think he would vibe with Jancy either. Jonathan wouldn't like Eddie being obnoxious and loud. Yes, he might agree with him at some points, but Jonathan hates the attention, and Eddie loves it. If you think Jonathan would be at his side when he gives his little speeches during lunchtime, no way. Same with Nancy, as soon as she sees Eddie climbing that table, she immediately goes the other way. She would pretend not to know this man. Eddie's personality is too loud for Nancy to handle over time. Maybe I'm projecting on her a bit here because she reminds me a bit of me. Like she's more serious and reserved, someone like Eddie would drain her quickly, and she would snap at him sooner than later. She wouldn't find his antics cute. She would be annoyed. But there wouldn't be any bad blood between them. They just would simply find each other annoying over time so they don't really hang out. Each of them has their own thing.

Eddie would rather hang out with Stobin, I think they could handle his personality better. Like they are not as serious than Jancy and could joke with him from time to time. But he also has his band mates to hang out with, so he's not around that often.

Vickie would have no hard feelings for Jancy, but because she's dating Robin and also likes Steve I think she doesn't want to make things awkward by hanging out with them.

Argyle, I think, is the only person who is absolutely cool with everyone. He is such a chill guy who doesn't care about the drama. So in the beginning, after Vecna is defeated, he would be like hey let's all get together to hang out, smoke some weed, and party to celebrate our win. Everyone would be excited at first, but slowly, they realize it was a bad idea. Steve would say some shit that would trigger Jonathan, which causes him to roll his eyes. Nancy then would maybe make a joke about Steve that has a mean undertone to it, which would set Robin off because only she is allowed to make jokes about Steve like that. All those microaggressions would compile until everything explodes. It would mostly be Jancy vs. Stobin with Eddie absolutely loving the drama and egging them on. He has the time of his life at that moment. Poor Argyle doesn't know what's happening and tries to calm them down with more weed, and Vickie just sits there, not knowing what to do but trying to talk Robin down.

Ever since that night, the group has split up and only comes together for important things, like the kids' graduating party, birthdays, weddings, etc. They would have civil conversations but mostly avoid each other. They all found their own circle over time with people they can hang out with without any drama. They would set all their differences aside if the world goes to shit again but hanging out afterward? No, thank you, lmao. They would fight literal monsters and would even die for each other, but friends no way.

The kids would try to get them together, but it's no use, sometimes things just don't work out, which is okay because people don't get along all the time. That also doesn't mean a character who hates another one is suddenly bad or the enemy. Or a character can only be good if they get along with everyone.

#steve harrington #robin buckley #nancy wheeler #jonathan byers #eddie munson #vickie stranger things #argyle #argyle stranger things #stobin #platonic stobin #stranger things #sandra says stuff #another long take nobody asked for

[ronancexists]

^^^ Exactly!!

This is why Ronance should be canon. Robin and Nancy are already integrated into the whole Upside Down of it all, they're flushed out as characters and we love them because of it, and we wouldn't have to worry about a new character taking over possible plot lines for the two of them along with the rest of the characters.

If they made Ronance canon:

1) We would get to see Nancy be with someone who respects her, sees her, and understands her, but also challenges her in ways Steve and Jonathan haven't. We would also get to see Robin have a girlfriend for (I'm pretty sure) the first time in her life.

2) We would just get to see more fun dynamics between Ronance and then also the drama with Steve and Robin and their friendship. Like imagine how confused and hurt and overwhelmed he would feel about Robin being with his ex-girlfriend and how guilty and worried Robin would feel being in a relationship with Steve's ex, especially because I have no doubt he told her everything that went down between Nancy and him at that Halloween party. And also because the Duffers were trying to push Stancy on us so hard during season 4 with Steve saying he imagined/was currently imagining a future with Nancy and six kids.

It would definitely put a strain on his friendship with Robin and Robin would be so upset and feel so bad that she hurt her platonic soulmate and broke "the bro code." Nancy would feel guilty and try to break things off with Robin but then as soon as she does that Steve gets on her ass about not hurting his best friend and he would eventually get over it after he saw how happy they were together. Because ultimately that's what he wants. He wants his friends to be happy, but it would still sting for a long time after.

3) I would hope we would get Nancy confessing to Mike about her feelings for Robin and then in turn Mike confessing that he thinks he might like Will as more than a friend (because let's be real the Duffers are going to be burned at the stake if they don't make Byler canon by the end of this series) and we get the same scenes but it's with Robin and Will. I like to imagine it as the scene in season 4 that was switching between Nancy and Fred/Jonathan and Arygle about the not coming to see each other on spring break thing.

4) We would get to see both of these characters have their happy endings. I imagine Nancy would still be attending Emerson and Robin would follow her (I would have no doubt that Robin could get in because she's fucking smart as hell, like girlie learned 3 languages for fun and she translated Russian without an ounce of knowledge about the language) and because Steve is Robin's platonic soulmate he would follow her. They would live together and Steve would probably go to the community college there and they would share an apartment while Nancy lived in the dorms until she could save up enough to move in with either just Robin or Robin & Steve because again, platonic soulmates.

I'm not trying to upset anyone who ships Vickie and Robin. I would too if only she didn't appear to be so similar to Robin like with the rambling. I (personally) love the whole opposite attracts shit with Ronance and I think they have more chemistry than Robin and Vickie do. But like the post I linked said, the Duffers have the entirety of season 5 to make Vickie a fleshed out character with an entire character arc and storyline while also making the audience fall in love with her, and they would somehow have to do it without taking away from the characters we already know and love.

This, along with the reasons above, are why I ship Ronance and, personally, why I think they are the better ship. I'm sure there are more (PERSONAL!) reasons, but these are the only things I could think of off the top of my head.

#ronance is everything #ronance and byler in season 5 #ronance #robin x nancy #nancy x robin #robin buckley x nancy wheeler #robin buckley #nancy wheeler #also byler #make them canon #in season 5 of stranger things #platonic stobin #stobin #stobin friendship #platonic soulmates stobin #like i want to love vickie #she seems sweet and cute and i love robin being able to have a crush #i just really wish that they had developed her in season four and actually roped her into the upside down #instead of only giving her like five to ten minutes of screen time total #this is not anti vickie the person this is anti vickie the plot device #she seems like a nice girl i just do not have time to make new friends on this show at this point! #they had their chance! #they squandered it! #these are just my opinions #don't come for me #please and thank you #stranger things #stranger things 5

[jancys-blue-bayou]

How far the Duffers had to reach to stretch out the Jancy/Stancy “love” triangle into s5

Just thinking about how Jancy’s chemistry + Stancy’s absolute lack of chemistry and compatibility meant that to be able to stretch the long dead, tired and played out “love” triangle into s5, which they for some reason decided to do, for s4 the Duffers had to:

- Keep Nancy and Jonathan physically separated into two different plotlines on opposite ends of the country AND invent a reason for them to not be able to contact each other by phone or anything else either.

- Out of nowhere invent a new communication issue between Jancy even though learning to communicate better as a couple was supposedly the relationship arc in s3.

- Stick Nancy and Steve into a plot together and intermittently have them look at each other with non diegetic music playing over to really try and force some feelings into it.

- Have random characters who doesn’t know Nancy at all comment on how she must love Steve.

- Have Steve completely onesided confess his out of nowhere rejuvenated feelings for Nancy.

- Not let Nancy have a voice in the matter of her thoughts or feelings surrounding this.

- Make sure Nancy is interrupted before she can respond in any way besides a horrified look.

- Hold off on resolving the issue this season imposed on Jancy’s relationship.

Had they let Nancy actually respond to Steve, or let Jancy have more than a few minutes of screentime together and let them really talk about the issue raised between them in s4, the so called love triangle would’ve been blown to smithereens. Even just the brief Jancy reunion we got made it obvious how things stand. But for whatever reason the Duffers are hellbent on dragging it into s5 so they wouldn’t resolve every little thread.

#jancy #anti stancy #nancy wheeler #jonathan byers #steve harrington #stranger things 4

[byersfanclub]

im so tired of this fandom minimizing wills love for mike ESPECIALLY when the van scene exist .

I simply don't understand how anyone COULDN'T be rooting for will's happiness and for him to get the boy other than they're watching the show through a heteronormative lens. milkvan are toxic, that's just fact. they're paralleled to stancy and other bad or non-endgame couples in media the duffers have stated as inspo for s4 meanwhile byler parallels canon and healthy couples in both stranger things itself and inspo media. will's love for mike is a plot point for a reason and it definitely isn't just for him to be rejected and live with the pain of your first love being your best friend. it simply just doesn't make sense with the way the narrative is written for byler not to happen, and you're literally supposed to be rooting for will, it doesn't matter than mike is "dating" el. ppl still shipped jancy when nancy was with steve and ppl still shipped jopper when joyce was with bob. ppl simply minimize will's love and byler being VERY possible for one reason: mike isn't made out to be explicitly gay/bi even tho queercoding is there, but ppl are too stupid, hence why ppl still couldn't tell if will was gay even after vol.2 dropped but can accept robin is a lesbian because she explicitly states she likes women and we see her visibly pine after vickie (vickie pining after robin too... very similar to byler/milkvan but ppl are more inclined to believe it because robin is explicitly wlw and vickie was obviously brought in as a love interest) BASICALLY if things aren't spelled out for GA members or ppl who just don't think byler will happen in general, then they dismiss it (and just give bad solutions "will can just have a random boyfriend at the end" or "will's arc is about rejection cause it's the 80s" as if the show isn't about interdimensional monsters and shit but ok) I understand the show isn't just about byler, but how is it fair that literally almost EVERY character including ones who only have 1-20 minutes of screen time are able to have romance built into their story/character BESIDES the one mlm MAIN character the entire story is centered around?

this was much longer than I intended but my point stands.

#byler #asks!

[ariesbilly]

Imo: the only reason they are trying this stancy crap is because they don’t know what to do with steve. they haven’t known what to do with him for a long time. they erased his season 1 characterization to make him the uwu mom babysitter but that got old really quickly so they went back to their original storyline for him. they wouldn’t have had to fall back on the boring nancy love triangle stuff if they actually gave him a storyline with billy like they we’re supposed to. steve was the only person billy interacted with other than his immediate family in season 2. what was the point if they were never going to talk again? bs

I WANT THE SCRAPPED HARRINGROVE PLOT IM RINGING THE DUFFERS NECKS AND SHAKING THEM VIOLENTLY !!!!

God but literally a plot with billy would’ve moved steve forward so much as a character I’m sorry (I’m not) but these plots with robin and Dustin drag him down and make him so one note it’s ridiculous but like… that’s what the majority of the fandom wants…so we will never get rid of it…

I hate mainstream fandoms so much just the worst possible takes imaginable

Steve was never a standout character to me to begin with but whew boy his scenes with billy really brought some life to him

I want actual conflict I want characters who push and pull at each other I want narratives and themes and symbols goddammit !!!!!

#briana answers things