#rhaenyra's characterization

[horizon-verizon]

“If Daemon wanted to get rid of his step-sons he would do it right after Aegon III’s birth”

If Rhaenyra thought Daemon was a serious threat to her sons she wouldn’t have married him. We don’t fully know the ins and outs of Daemyra’s marriage but we do know Rhaenyra. The honest truth is she’s more likely kill her husband and feed him to her dragon if she got even a whiff of a threat to her kids than turn a blind eye whilst he pulls an Alicent Hightower.

Daemon knows that, he entered this marriage fully aware any son he has isn’t going to become King. So he cut his losses and accepted Baela and Rhaena as the future Queen Consort and Lady of Driftmark.

#asoiaf asks to me #daemon targaryen #daemon's characterization #fire and blood characters #rhaenyra's characterization #rhaenyra targaryen #daemyra #hotd characterization

[idkjustletmescroll]

It's really weird how a lot of people in the got/hotd fandom don't seem to accept how grey grrm's characters are? Idk maybe I'm just on the wrong side of tumblr/tiktok, but...several things can be true at once.

Cersei Lannister can be an abuser, a killer, AND A VICTIM. She can love her children AND have deeply unhealthy relationships with them. Alicent Hightower can resent her children, have unhealthy relationships with them, have no idea how to parent them, and still love them. Rhaenyra can be the rightful heir to the iron throne with good intentions, and still seemingly have no idea how to rule. Viserys can make Rhaenyra his heir and talk about how much he loves Aemma and be a sh*t dad and partner. Sansa Stark can be mean to Arya and also a child whose behavior is reinforced by a guardian (the septa, who she is told to obey and learn from). Joffrey Baratheon can be a sadist who had to die for the good of the realm, and still a child. Robert can be funny and Ned's friend, and a terrible father and husband. Ned and Catelyn can be some of the best parents on either show, love each other and their kids, do everything for each other and their kids, and still have failed to prepare their children for the world they live in. The whole POINT of grrm's characters is that they're not good or evil, they're not black or white, their cruelty has a reason and they are all functioning within an inherently unjust society, and doing the best they can.

#alicent hightower #hotd #game of thrones #cersei lannister #sansa stark #rhaenyra targaryen #viserys targaryen #king viserys #ned stark #catelyn stark #joffrey baratheon #gray characteres

[lemonhemlock]

The truth about Alicent Hightower: why is she so disliked?

https://youtu.be/t9HjamrAMfU?si=QpoUMPQQSuTWmovz

I found this video on YouTube. I didn't watch the video, but I did read the comments, and many of them were negative toward Alicent. I want to know your thoughts on this video.

The comments are negative towards Alicent because the creator's request for engagement consisted of asking her audience to share why they disliked Alicent. Though I do feel inclined to enquire myself: why are you asking me to react to this video if you haven't even watched it?

Many of these talking points I have already addressed in my lengthy meta posts over time:

There is a conflation of Alicent from the books and Alicent from the show. Show!Alicent was not sent to comfort Jaehaerys and is more innocent and trusting that book!Alicent because she is younger.

Alicent is hated by many viewers for "seducing" Viserys. The creator says she doesn't and denies that people blame her for that, but they do. It's an easily-verified, observable reality and, thus, a strange thing to even say.

Jace/Helaena is not an advantageous marriage for the greens.

"Why was Otto spying on Rhaenyra?" It's literally his job. "He deserved to be fired". It's literally his job to be spying on everyone and report the information back to the King.

The Hightowers are faced with the fait accompli that Aegon will not be named heir. They went into the marriage fully believing that Alicent's sons would overtake Rhaenyra in the line of succession, as was the social norm.

It ultimately comes back to what I was talking about these last few days. This is the result of a conflation of several factors:

ignorance about what medieval social and economic arrangements actually were (what is feudalism? what is manorialism?);

stubbornly clinging to the notion that Westeros is an absolutist monarchy and that "the King's word is law";

downplaying the bastard issue, i.e. refusing to acknowledge how concerning the division of the marital estate was to inheritors and blaming it entirely on misogyny-fueled sex-negativism;

having no concept of what common law is or how it functions.

People can't let go of this image that Westeros is a capitalist modern state with an authoritarian leader (the King). And dragons. (It's Russia, basically. The dragons are bears).

Most of TB's discourse contains some combination of the above, which is why, honestly, at this point, if people are so invested in still talking about this, I would truly suggest a primer in medieval history, because this is getting ridiculous. These reasonings are just not rooted in a tangible basis of reality and trying to engage with them is like fighting windmills.

In the same vein, I wish people would stop bringing up the point of Alicent misunderstanding that Viserys changed his mind on his death bed. I get it, you think it's a dumb argument, but, lo' and behold, it's actually lifted straight from real history and, to the shock of thousands of Twitter users, it worked. What now? Stephen of Blois truly is crying in the afterlife because you think this little trick of his lacks realism. 🤦‍♀️

#they don't understand how much modern institutions shape their daily lives #institutions which are totally absent from westeros #it doesn't even have a parliament #'pass a law' pfffff #anti rhaenyra targaryen #anti team black #alicent hightower #there is also the refusal to accept that rhaenyra has any power over her own situation #and that she also could have made better choices both for herself and for the realm #'what was rhaenyra to do?' renounce being heir! or be smarter about it! #girl pick a struggle fr #ask #anon #also. like. you have to laugh at OP's characterization of rhaenyra being groomed by daemon during their night out in town #& then coercing criston into sex #as 'her living her best life'

[americanprometheuss]

i love it when the voices start speaking to me and they make me realize that the reason i sympathize and feel bad for alicent’s children is because i AM alicent’s children.

i’m the child being overlooked in favor of someone else, the ones who have to watch their mother beg for their father to realize that his inactions are harming me. the one being scorned and sneered upon while being told that my father figure isn’t my father, he’s my authority figure, the one who holds the rod instead of being my nurturer.

i’m aemond after he loses his eye, and is watching alicent beg for viserys to do something to help him. i’m aegon slowly wasting away as he tries to live up to the mantle of king that was forced on his head. i’m heleana who speaks of the misfortunes of her family but is ignored and pitied.

i feel like every person who has been emotionally, physically, mentally, etc. abused in their childhood can find pieces of themselves within each of the green children because they’re just the beacon and poster child of how the same abuse can make so many different types of adults.

#idk….i got kinda self aware tonight and i don’t think i like it but fuck it we ball #grrm idk if you were actively thinking about that while you were characterizing alicent’s children but i applaud you #i can literally sit here for hours and talk about how alicent being abused shaped her into becoming an abuser and how her abuse toward her #abuse toward her children made them the way they are #hotd #aegon ii targaryen #aemond targaryen #heleana targaryen #dance of the dragons #asoisf #team green #alicent hightower #rhaenyra targaryen #daemon targaryen

[kataraavatara]

Did greenies watch ep 6 with their eyes closed???? She just didn't asked to see a baby. She asked to see a FRESHLY BORN OUT OF THE WOMB BABY. Rhae's grandmother and mother died in pregnancy, she prob knew rhaenyra would leave the baby with her and lets not forget that this isn't only time she has done this with laenor's "I thought we were passed this" comment.

Alicent did not ask to see the baby, she asked to see the baby immediately. An obvious and blatant intimidation tactic meant to play on Rhaenyra's history of losing siblings shortly after birth, including Baelon, whose funeral she was literally present for. I think I'll write a longer meta about this sometime in the future, but to characterize that as a request to visit a new grandchild rather than abuse is stupid. But I'll leave you with this: If Alicent's main objective was to see the baby and not to humiliate and hurt Rhaenyra, she could have walked her happy ass on over.

#anti team green #rhaenyra targaryen #anti alicent hightower stans #people have been characterizing this as just an innocent request and it drives me up the wall #anti team green stans #answered asks

[bohemian-nights]

What do you think of Rhaenyra’s reluctance to issue war? Do you think this is because she genuinely didn’t want war or was this another one of the writers ways of making her seem like a “girlboss who really would never have done any wrong but was just pushed there?”

I actually blame this on both the writers trying to shoehorn the prophecy mess(which Viserys realistically shouldn’t know about himself) and them trying to make Rhaenyra into a girlboss.

They made it seem like Rhaenyra was going to give up her claim and go along with Aegon being king because there is this war between ice zombies and humanity and the Targaryens will be the saviors of Westeros(which is all a load of bull crap because according to GOT the savior was Arya…Stark🫠).

This made 0 sense whatsoever even in the context of the show because she literally begged Daemon’s a** to marry her since she thought the Greens were going to do her in. She was low-key preparing for war in episode 7 and then the finale rolls around and she’s like “Hmm maybe I should like bow down to Aegon for the prophecy’s sake.” 🫠

I haven’t rewatched the show(and don’t plan on doing so because it is crap) so someone correct me if I’m wrong, but I could’ve sworn Viserys told Rhaenyra about the prophecy way before episode 7(I think he told her in episode 1 which is further proof that this show is just so inconsistent, they can’t even keep up with what they’ve written 🤦🏽‍♀️). She didn’t give a damn about the prophecy before, but now she does 🙃

Book!Rhaenyra would never do this because she was always firm in her belief Aegon II was a usurper and even if there was a prophecy she would think it was referring to her line so she’d definitely push for her claim.

If they wanted to make Rhaenyra look more empathetic they could’ve played into her being a mother and had her say “I don’t want to fight in a pointless war and see my sons die,” but they gave the lamest excuse possible by adding in a that stupid prophecy.

This show is just bananas. Its biggest problems are trying to make it connect to the mess that was the final seasons of GOT and trying to turn Rhaenyra into Dany 2.0. They could’ve presented us with an unbiased version of what happened during the Dance(showing that the main claimants were f*cked up people who were screwed over by a self-centered King who almost got their entire family killed), but instead, we get this🤦🏽‍♀️

#house of the dragon #hotd #bnasks #bnask #rhaenyra’s characterization #anti rhaenyra targaryen

[aradeia]

Perhaps the death of Balerion during the reign of Viserys I represents how the Targaryen family lost sight of Aegon's dream around that time. The Targaryens supposedly united all Westeros under their rule to defend against the threat of the Others. But during the Dance of the Dragons, and the many Blackfyre rebellions that followed, the Targaryens became preoccupied with which individual sat the Iron Throne. Balerion's death is perhaps symbolic of the Targaryen family becoming more interested in destroying itself (for nothing) than in looking ahead towards the imminent threat.

#i love viserys' characterization in hotd #for all his talk about aegon's prophecy #he does just about all in his power to destroy the unity of the targaryen family #by undermining rhaenyra's claim to the throne at just about every point #of course viserys was balerion's last rider #and of course balerion died during his reign #because once again #if i look back i am lost #asoiaf #making a dragon uquiz right now and so i'm thinking a lot about the dragons

[princesssszzzz]

Looking at YouTube videos why do they all keep calling show Baela and Rhaena dragon twins they aren’t even twins ??

Falsely claiming they aren’t Princesses when they are both Princess and ladies - calling them Velaryons all these being made by “team black”

#aka team rhaenyra and daemon only #so adverse to their character details won’t even call them by their names and correct ages #making a video on them and not caring about any characterization #not bringing up daemon’s treatment of them #just like here these two bitches exist we don’t care enough to provide any info #gotta start making YT videos also I guess #baela targaryen #rhaena targaryen #anti team black

[nooneeverlookedforagirl]

NaNoWriMo is coming up, so I'm taking a poll. Would you rather read a 30 chapter, 50k word fanfic on:

Viserys gets a second wind when his Hand attempts to disinherit his grandson. With what little time he has remaining, he sets the kingdom to rights. [Book or show timeline, pro-Rhaenyra, gentle to Alicent's children, POV mostly Viserys and those close to him.]

When Viserys strikes a pregnant Dany, Drogo is summoned. Years later, having won Vaes Dothrak, Daenerys meets a very different brother, and the Targaryens set out to retake their father's throne. [Show timeline, pro-Daenerys, reformed Viserys, in depth characterization of everyone, Essos/Free Folk/Stark friendly, not very Tyrion/Varys/Jonerys friendly, Lannister friendly debatable)

#daenerys targaryen #rhaenyra targaryen #viserys targaryen #game of thrones #asoiaf #fanfic #nanowrimo #i want to write something soft and happy #featuring way too much characterization

[thesilverlady]

I'm not enough of a book purist to not being able to enjoy headcanons, crackships etc (as a matter of fact I do love them). But seeing newbies unironically and completely serious considering aemond to "trying to be the perfect son", or "heleana is the people's princess" or "rhaenyra is calm, collected and strategic", "Daemon is the family's clown, the agent of chaos" legit gives me a headache because they are nothing like that.

And I'm not talking about ppl writing fanfics with this type of characterization, but ppl legit having takes based on the terrible portrayal of the show. And even when they go to read f&b they still have the image the show gave them because they don't seem capable of letting go.

it just feels like Jon Snow/Daenerys Targaryen character assassination all of again.

There are so many people who consider Jon to be basically ned 2.0 and Dany a mad queen-girlboss-slay

I just wish we could seperate books from adaptations. That's all

#don't be a jerk i'm just venting ✌️ #anti hotd #I know the greens had 2% of actual characterization so fans are now making their own hcs but #my issue is they slowly legit believe them to be canon #rhaenyra was not chill. She was emotional. thought first with her heart. could be immature and had temper #aegon was not a loser crybaby. he was spoiled. had freedom to do as he wished and was simply lazy and unmotivated #aemond was already a psycho before his eye loss. and was obsessed with proving himself. he gave 0 shit about his fam #helaena only had 1 line in f&b and even that gives her more personality than the cringe show version #alicent was not a child bride. she was an ambitious woman. a big hypocrite who was obsessed w Rhaenyra and had beef with her since rhaenyra #Viserys was a girl dad and loved rhaenyra and heleana. he also loved alicent very much. aegon and aemond were simply red flags #daemon was not a deadbeat dad. he was ruthless and he wanted the throne and power. his marriage with Laena softened him a lot #and he became dedicated to his fam to the point he killed himself to take out Rhaenyra's biggest threat aka vhagar (not aemond) #otto was not a warm grandfather. he only cared about gaining power and he gave 0 shit about what his grandkids could be going through #grrm does write grey characters but he also writes ones who are meant to be interpreted as good/evil #and the greens are very obvious the antagonists of the dance #I'm not saying you shouldn't like them but fandom should stop trying to rewrite f&b with their hcs #people enjoy joffrey and ramsey but no soul says they were victims #f&b meta #hotd meta #anti ryan condal #Ryan will pay for his crimes

[horizon-verizon]

Master Post of Anti-Criston Cole-ism

He was Never Raped or SA-ed

A) [HotD] HotD's Episode 4, from the Actor and Writers

i)

🔗LINK to Entertainment Weekly Article that Describes Frankel & Writers Making this Scene Consensual Sex Scenes where Criston "Chooses" to Forget his Vows

Neither of these reveal that either the actor nor the writers or directors wrote the sex scene to be something Criston was afraid of or didn't want. The way it's talked about, with people "discovering" each other and themselves shows consent and enjoyment. Frankel wanted to play out his fear of Criston's own desire to break his own vows and facing the guilt of that; Rhaenyra never pressured him into anything.

REMINDER: He's still not "commonborn" nor Dornish, since:

he has a last name, which peasants don't have AND his father/house is House Cole, stewards of the Dondarrions...the Tyrells at one point were stewards to House Gardner in the Reach & they were still nobles of that time, stewards don't mean full fledged "servants"

Blackhaven is in the Stormland part of the Dornish Marches, not the Dornish part of the Dornish Marches...Samwell Tarly's family's castle is in the foothill of a part of the Dornish Marches, ....Barristan Selmy's family's castle, Harvest Hill, is based in the Dornish Marches in Stormlander territory, so is Barristan Selmy Dornish? Cole is a Stormlander!

Marchers hate Dornish people more than other nonDornish Westerosi do...Criston said his dad was a steward of the nonDornish Dondarrions...HotD has never shown us whether either of his parents are Dornish by origin so what proof do we have he is Dornish even in the show?!!! And we see no discrimination (hint or overt) the court has against Cole...

lets' say that Cole was Dornish...the Velaryons are black and realisitically, even rich Black people do not manage to avoid subtle racial discrimination (there's a black woman on TikTok from a wealthy family that talks about it, idk her name)...so if Criston faces racism and the Velaryons don't either the writers are incompetent or don't know racism

Not only is this a misreading of what the Dornish Marches are on the HotD writers'/producers' part, it's a misreading or understanding of race either in medieval times or the modern day, AND people have tried to use a supposed racial disparity b/t Rhaenyra (Valyrian-Targ princess) to argue that Cole (the racially-inferior) felt racial pressure as well to comply to sleep with her and avoid censure or punishment if she blabs...as if his race would give him the right to sleep with a teen girl who some have argued was also very drunk here-- even if Criston was Dornish!

ii) [HotD] HotD's Episode 4, from the actual Episode

People don't know what SA or rape actually looks like...can we just, please?...

B) "If the Roles were Reversed" [HotD AND the Original Story]

i)

Rhaenyra didn't "make" him do anything b/c she doesn't have the ability to take on that new level of risk. So much protest using the "if the genders were reversed", and yet no acknowledgment or breakdown of what their respective unique positions are.

A male heir =/= a female heir in terms of power and privilege, gender really matters even here, as every source on the matter--whether HotD or the original story--has made every single minute to point out and emphasize...the only reason we are even talking about the Dance is that it was a group of people arguing that no woman should go before a man inn any line of succession which comes from the belief that women are inherently insufficient military leaders. And female chastity is a whole concept in of itself where the woman/girl must be sexually "pure" as to ensure that a man's and his family's lineage remains "proven" to be inherited by someone blood-connected to them. To preserve that wealth and privilege. etc., within that family. Female chastity - female "obedience" or submission to male supremacy.

Women could never be knights so they can never be Kingsguard.

Brienne is not a knight...yet[?], and she exists YEARS after the Dance; even if there were female monarchs before, check out real history for how medieval people regarded female rulers if they didn't happen to be very "good" ones...I mean just check out Juana I of Castile!

We can never equalize these situations in matter of gender because this society structures on the inequality of its genders.

A World of Ice and Fire shows us glaring examples of women over men being brutally sidelined or physically attacked to make way for male leaders or candidates (Shiera Blackwood, Agnes Blackwood, that unnamed Lannister woman who had to marry a non-Lannister man so he could take her name just so he could lead the Lannister house instead of her, Argella Durrandon, Marla Sunderland); Fire and Blood has a bunch of girls raped, mutilated, SA-ed or sexually manipulated so the men can inch their way towards power or to just feel in control (Cassandra Baratheon, Lucinda Penrose, those Tumbleton 8-year-olds, the septas, etc.).

Making as if sexual violence against men or just general violence against men is treated the same, as frequent, and socially justified as violence against women and girls both in real life and in the ASoIaF/HotD/GoT universes is disingenuous. As long as we live in a society where enough people think a woman's body is never totally her own, it never will be.

ii) Let's play with this "Reversal" Anyway:

a) We already see Rhaenyra-Criston in the version of her approaching him...

In F&B, we already have one verison of what happened b/t them in Mushroom telling us of a situation of Rhaenyra approaching Criston and Criston denying her, with no material consequences for him...and he freely decides to hate and try to destroy her anyway ("A Question of Succession"):

Even IF Rhaenyra approached Criston and in this way, she does not go to Viserys to ruin Cole or do anything else to him. She sleeps with Harwin instead. And why doesn't she go to Viserys to fuck Criston's life up? Bc he has been her trusted guard for ages, but also because of what I say below in section b) below and i) above.

Reminder, Viserys in both the show and book forces Rhaenyra to marry Laenor, and book!her explicitly is rumored to say she wanted Daemon. She faces censure or punishment, not Cole.

Show!Rhaenyra has also been "friends"/friendly with Cole for years; what reason do we have to expect or fear that she'd complain to Viserys? How much does Criston really expect Rhaenyra does, since he's the said friend in her "confidence"?

b) Occam's razor

Since women cannot be Kingsguard in Westeros, the female-Cole would either be a lower-ranked noble woman or she would be like Jonquil Darke, the female sworn-shield of Alysanne Targaryen (who still wasn't part of the Kingsguard). JD was also a Darkling bastard.

It's so very unlikely that even if female-Cole become the guard to young/older male-Rhaenyra.

That's inconceivable to these people. Why would the probably already-sword trained male-Rhaenyra need a personal female-guardsman when they'd have an actual Kingsguard knight (still all male) as the male-Rhaenyra's guard before a female warrior is ever considered? This is the mindest of these royals and nobles, btw.

And again, Jonquil was the protector of Alysanne, not Jaehaerys. But Jaehaerys did use Jonquil to stop Saera from running away, and this proves that Jonquil's "final boss" is and always has been Jaehaerys, aka, the Monarch, not the person she was protecting. If a male-Rhaenyra approached a female-Cole (but not a bastard) who was a sort of Jonquil Darke person, even with that female-Cole being well-versed in swordsmanship or anything physical to defend herself, the social consequences of that woman sleeping with a royal man while not being married to him is still as real and worse for her than for him. She'd be less willing to fully engage with him and dread the consequences of his growing angry with her.

What if female-Cole was just a regular noblewoman, either ranked high from a prestigious family/Great House (Starks, Martell, Hightowers, Lannisters, Manderlys] or from a lower ranked or not-as-prestigious and influential family (Tarlys, Selmys, Boltons, Wyls)? And male-Rhaenyra took a liking to female-Cole but didn't want to or expect to marry them?

Because female-Cole is a female noble and had grown up knowing that women & girls are socially condemned for actually practicing sexual autonomy, they'd be much more cautious and vulnerable to censure in either scenario:

If the female-Cole was from a more prestigious or "Great" House, male-Rhaenyra wouldn't as likely approach them unless they thought they'd be good for marriage because that house is powerful and important enough to put some pressure on them IF they ever found out. An affair is very possible, and depending on female-Cole's age and assessment of her own abilities and worth growing up female, we don't know whether they'd be willing to pursue a true consensual affair with male-Rhaenyra without there being a hope or guarantee for marriage. Because, like Lysa Tully, they still run the risk of tainting their family/house' image and face punishment or abuse from their own family if such affairs were made public. (If I have to explain Lysa Tully to people, they either forgot what happens b/t her & Petar Baelish or never read the bks, and if the latter they should not speak on anything to do with any character in things like this that requires lore knowledge AND some objectivity. Or they don't see what happened to her as "a big deal"...) Still, there is room for her to not want the attention because women are not a monolith of the exact same personalities or circumstances for us to believe every single woman would go for a real affair regardless of there being a desire or expectation of marriage. Thus what I describe below for lower ranked women/girls still counts. If anything, the stakes can be said to be higher because her family's prestige or power is so high that they could also take the path of blaming her. Therefore, a woman/girl of this group could still feel cornered.

If female-Cole came from a lower/less prestigious house, male-Rhaenyra is more interested & likelier of pursuing an affair or making female-Cole their paramour/mistress. Same situation, but the girl has even less reason to believe that there would be a marriage bc her house' rank/prestige/powers are so low for a possible marriage to the future King. She'd have to be either be mentally incapacitated (Priscella Hogg), under another immense pressure, or very young to believe that. So in this case, there is a stronger likelihood that if she sleeps with male-Rhaenyra, it's because she was cornered or felt she couldn't avoid him and had no assurances to avoid him later on. Or that he'd later feel slighted and begin rumors of her in court and her reputation gets ruined either way.

in either case, because male-Rhaenyra is a man while female-Cole isn't and men are far more likely to use physical force to intimidate or push a woman down then the reverse; men on average feel entitled to women's bodies' and attention, what more a royal prince like Aegon & Aemond? (I didn't use these examples by accident: that 12 yr old "paramour" Septon Eustace informs us and Alys Rivers)

And male-Rhaenyra would be the heir, still. There would be no doubt against male-Rhaenyra because she'd be male, male leaders are credited their deserving to rule armies by being male. His path to ascension is clearer than what real-Rhaenyra currently and will have to face. Male-Rhaenyra has no reason to even be all that secretive with female-Cole if he did intend on making her his paramour & he thought he'd get away with just making her his paramour...which is most likely a woman in a much lower "rank" or of a family with much lower powers than some others. Yes, Viserys would say that he is acting "unseemly", he could be called stupid or reckless, and some lords and ladies would think he's acting too licentuously...but no one would begrudge or hate male-Rhaenyra long for extramaritally/premaritally sleeping with a woman of any origin as to say they were a "whore" or try to use this as their primary reason be shouldn't be the next King. The "new" greens don't as much shit to stand on. They'd look silly(ier) for actually using this as a reason to say he shouldn't be King.

Female-Cole has little to no leverage against a male-Rhaenyra in the specific moment of a sexual cornering bc there is simply more risk for her than for him based on their respective genders AND ranking. We can't separate the two, they will inform the other.

Cole-Cole has more social leverage than a woman actually corned by a male higher-ranking noble/royal bc Rhaenyra-Rhaenyra's reputation can be ruined a lot easier than a male heir's. In any iteration, female-Cole rather than Cole-Cole has more risk & pressures in because women are given less grace in events where it's known they extramaritally/premaritally sleep with a man. Because she's already side-eyed or doubted to be a capable leader or worthy, censures against her lack of practicing female obedience and chastity would make her seem less deserving of the throne and give her enemies more fuel to fire their own agenda.

Again, this hierarchical feudal society is built on making gender, class, etc. essential differences that grant individuals privileges over others.

Finally, Criston Cole, his relationship with Rhaenyra, AND their sex /how it happened cannot be compared to a modern-day boss-employee-relationship/sexual harassment sort of sex-reversed MeToo! situation. Viserys is, as many have said on both camps, Criston's real and unequivocal "boss". Really, this whole argument then diminishes what actual SA is and the MeToo! movement's focus on holding mainly male professional superiors accountable for willfully using their positions to assault those under them.

The writers trying to make Rhaenyra the one in with more psychological control over Criston when canonically there' isn't much evidence to support that is very suspicious.

Reasons to Hate Cole

A) Show/House of the Dragon

i)

Let's really think about Criston's suggestion to run away and marry.

The guy said this in episode 5 of season 1:

I've soiled my white cloak. And it's the only thing I have to my fսck¡ng name! I thought if we were married, I might be able to restore it.

Criston's logic reveals he's more concerned about retaining his own sense and perception of his honor and not "honor" in general bc running away to elope would bring great disgrace to both his and Rhaenyra’s families & houses. Not just Rhaenyra herself. If it is Rhaenyra's "duty" to marry Laenor, she would be breaking her vows to become Queen. If she runs away, she arguably broke her vows to "protect" the realm from the Others as by her and Viserys' conversation about Aegon's prophecy. Cole may not have heard this from Rhaenyra, but he didn't want to hear anything from her because all he wanted was for her to go along with what he wanted, not to actually listen to her any misgivings she may have had.

He looked at marriage as a way to "bring back" a sense of honor for himself. Vows hold "sacred" honor. Criston is trying to distance himself from the very idea of freely and willfully “soiling” his cloak by trying to "replace" his brken vows with new marriage vows.

Remeber, he consented to sex with Rhaenyra, so it was his willful decision to sleep with her and "soil" his own "cloak". The writers and the actor, again, both work in the understanding that Cole "chooses to lie with Rhaenyra" [top of this post].

Criston absolutely knows that she can't marry him in the usual, open way and still retain her position as heir or even as part of the royal family. He's asking her to abandon her entire family...let that sink in. It shows a gender disparity that does not justify "if the roles were reversed". Lower-ranked-Female-Cole would never and could never hope to convince the male-Rhaenyra to run away with her and start an entirely new life, abandon both of their families (for marriage specifically) bc he doesn't have to in order to marry her. He may lose some people's respect if he marries her, but the consequences for him versus a female heir are not the same. A female heir would have to run away & not be among other Westerosi nobles, become a peasant, etc. to marry someone like Cole. *EDIT (3/17/24)* Example: Prince Duncan and Jenny of Oldstones. *END OF EDIT*

He was attracted to her, but his main motivation was to escape the shame of his soiled cloak and soiled honor. That his honor is actually a lie, a made-up thing in itself. That he, himself, soiled it and thus he, himself, has made himself a liar.

ii)

He has been living in court being Rhaenyra’s personal guard for years. Some of us thought that he should have known that nobles largely do not follow the same rules that excuse their positions through rumors. That they withhold and lie to protect themselves. (And generally, humans are wont to try to bend their own rules to satisfy their own desires.) 

And so we think that he should have done the same--patiently withhold information and observe what happens so he could adapt to it--while Alicent was getting to ask if Rhaenyra had slept with Daemon, and not if he slept with her.

It may not be faithful to one's vows, but if he actually knew what kind of person Rhaenyra was--that she would never run away with him (as he should after so many years of being with her and thus I think he did know but asked anyway, this he never really cared about her but himself)--then he should have never brought up the suggestion of running away or thought she'd ever marry him. What exactly did he think would happen for him after sleeping w/her? And as I argued, he had much more choice than some may think and took advantage of it. As nobles often do.

And yet, he decides that Rhaenyra is responsible for what he freely chose for himself AND what he could have easily avoided as a man/Kingsguard and her being female. And he does so so he can avoid accountability. Rhaenyra is much less likely to be able to & doesn't want to, once again, "make" him do anything with her. And Rhaenyra does not control Criston Cole's conscience nor his penis nor his reasoning.

Occam's razor again.

iii)

He decides to take it out on the Velaryon boys, as clued by what happens in the training yard of episode 6. It's obvious he refuses to treat them similarly to the green princes and train them at the same level. He's also much more physically rough with Jace than with either green boy. Finally he presses for Aegon to get more violent than necessary against Jace, clearly taking pleasure in vicarious revenge against Rhaenyra.

He's a loser who uses children's pain to inflict his own frustrations. And no, "illegitimate" children are not less human than "trueborn" ones.

B) Fire and Blood (The Original Story)

These are the versions of what happens b/t them, Septon Eustace's vs Mushroom's ("A Question of Succession"):

Really, alinahams already tackled this HERE, so check them out.

Excerpt:

In both versions, Criston is never involved with Rhaenyra in any way. Both versions take care to mention how it was all about Rhaenyra's choices about her life and body that bothered Criston and made him hate her. It's never about Criston being used and discarded. That is what makes Criston an Incel and a villain. Rhaenyra never did anything wrong to him. She didn't do anything to deserve his life long hatred and betrayal. It was his own twisted madonna/whore complex that ruined his friendship with Rhaenyra.

Criston decides to make it his life mission to destroy Rhaenyra because he couldn't handle her making her own decisions, bc honestly even if she (a 16-17 yr old) had decided to try to seduce him as Viserra did with Baelon...did Baelon hold it against Viserra or say that she was a whore or try to condemn her or get back at her for daring to "disturb" him in his grief over his dead wife, their sister, Alyssa?

Even with Baelon being a prince to Criston's Kingsguard, we see that both Viserra & Rhaenyra were desperate to have some sense of control over their own bodies through sex--and for Viserra through a marriage to a more powerful man--because it is through sex and marriage that their entire autonomy is being taken away or suppressed. And some in this fandom have argued that Viserra was bad or amoral for trying to seduce Baelon in his grief, and some have even said she was trying to take advantage of him! But does Baelon think this way or try to "avenge" himself on her? No.

Why try to ruin her and her kids' entire lives? Once more, Rhaenyra, even in Mushroom's version, does not ever complain to Viserys or try to ruin Criston. So....

#criston cole #criston cole's characterization #fire and blood characters #hotd characterization #rhaenyra and criston #rhaenyra targaryen #rhaenyra's characterization #hotd episode 4 #hotd episode 5 #asoiaf #fire and blood #hotd #book vs tv show comparisons

[navree]

the weird thing about the sarah hess interview (there are a lot of weird things about that interview but if i talked about all of them this would be the length of a phd dissertation) is that, like, if you want us to give some sympathy to aegon and acknowledge the complexities behind him not wanting to rule but wanting it and his relationship with alicent and his siblings and rhaenyra and all that without the audience getting hung up on him being a rapist, don’t write him being a rapist? you are a writer on the show sarah, you’re the one who decides and this was an easily solvable problem

#personal #house of the dragon #this is especially galling because i actually quite like the rest of what they're doing with aegon #like for one the actor is quite good he's one of the few parts of that horrid domina show that i actually like #for two everything that was goin on in sunday's episode was doing a lot #like his scene with aemond and then with alicent where he asks if she loves him and his coronation #and then with rhaenys and meleys when alicent steps up to protect him and all that it was solid work for the character #and his relationships with the people in his life #so you could have quite literally just nixed the rape thing and it wouldn't have even mattered? this isn't affecting the plot at all?? #i'd say she can't write him well but i don't think she can write any of these characters well #like she wants us to woobify aegon but after writing him doing vile shit #she isn't giving anything for helaena beyond 'is a dragondreamer and mayyyyybe autism coded' #(and whether or not that's offensive is for someone else as i'm not autistic and can't speak to that) #she flattens out all of rhaenyra's bad traits but makes her a stupid politician #she HATES daemon for whatever reason why is why so much of that bullshit surrounding ep 6 happened #she (and the rest of the writers) have put no effort into giving any depth to corlys or rhaenys or ANY of the velaryon kids #just weird writing choices that are basically the writers getting in their own way #because there's good characterizations here #as i've said everything else with aegon was interesting (and that scene with him encouraging jace with his dragon was v sweet) #and helaena being a dreamer is good and daemon and rhaenyra and alicent are also characters with amazing complexities #and this thing they're doing with daemon in particular and his whole 'wants to be loved' shtick is fun #but they can't get out of their own way and do weird fucking nonsense #and then complain when the audience doesn't get it #you are the person making the story you can bend this story to your will you know!!!!! you can write these characters!!!

[iheartbookbran]

I’m just here thinking how the hotd writers, in their attempt to whitewash Alicent and make her more sympathetic, stripped her completely off her agency and ambition and now Aegon ended up being a more interesting character than her.

#out of all the greens aegon was the one i cared less about #him and helaena #mostly bc grrm never did anything with them #aemond and daeron were my fave greens but for wildly different reasons #(but they were just hilarious to me) #and aegon’s only memorable moment was when he [redacted] rhaenyra #but now i’m like 👀 what’s this dirtbag awful man gonna do next #and that’s just sad cause i was really digging what they were doing with alicent up to episode 6 #but now she’s just like ‘oh no poor me i just cannot escape the patriarchy’ #‘i have no choice but to install my r*pist son who i deeply dislike on the throne’ #sis what??? #at least aegon’s characterization isn’t all over the place #ryan condal i was (reluctantly) rooting for you #aegon ii targaryen #hotd #fire and blood #hotd spoilers

[saintcriston]

im a firm believer in hotd should’ve had 16 episodes and i know that doesn’t fit the game of thrones format but idgaf theirs so much story they could’ve told but couldn’t because of time restraint, like aegon and rhaenyra having 2 glances at eachother when their supposed to be the people to ruin eachother

#the characterization we could’ve gotten from 16 episodes ohhhh lawddd #also meaning baby jace and rhaenyra scenes which is all i need in life

[boleynns]

where i'm at four hours later:

#i have crossed the event horizon into a new chaotic place where i just sit in the fires of hell going 'I love hell!!!' #pain? i love pain! nonsense?? i am a clown so i guess i love nonsense!! #still hate the writers for flipping his characterization #and still hate the editors (who i have had beef with since E5 mind you) for cutting all feeling and care from daemon #and still nauseous #but i guess i'll just be nauseous in hell wearing my clown makeup for all eternity bc i refuse to let the writers win!! #they are gonna burn together and burn each other and burn me WE ARE ALL DYING IN A FIRE #time to put our blinders on just like r & d do by ignoring it and not talking about it and then just holding hands at the end #hotd spoilers #daemon x rhaenyra #i am wildly swinging between anger and depression and spiteful chaotic acceptance from one second to the next

[bohemian-nights]

Alicent and Rhaenyra still holding on to their friendship after episode 7 is (you could even make an argument for anywhere past episode 5) is pathetic. By the time episode 10 roles around these are women who have both threatened harm to each others children (Rhaenyra calling for Aemond to be “sharply questioned” and Alicent calling for the eye of Lucerys). Book!Alicent (and Book!Rhaenyra) would never. And to be honest I’m not sure why any self-respecting person

would want to rekindle any sort of relationship with someone who has actively threatened harm to their respective children.

Next season I would like to see more Book!Alicent especially after after Blood&Cheese. I would also like some more agency. Alicent not knowing that they were planning on usurping Rhaenyra until after Viserys death was pathetic. While it’s true that in different parts of her life Alicent has been the victim it seems as if (progressively more with each time skip) that’s the only or rather major characterization trait the writers are focusing on.

When it comes to Rhaenyra I would like to solely see Book!Rhaenyra. One of the few things I like about Book!Rhaenyra is that at least she knew she had some sort of power. Oftentimes people like to compare Alicent to Cersei but I would compare Rhaenyra to Cersei. Cersei was a bad person who did a lot of bad things. Cersei knew what and who she was. She used her power and privilege to her benefit and her benefit alone. While Rhaenyra is her own person (just as Cersei is her own) I think it would be in the writers favor to lean into more of those traits for Rhaneyra that her book counterpart also already has.

I would like to see more characters (especially the female characters) besides Rhaenyra given at least some what consistent characterization.

It literally makes no sense. Like after what went down on Driftmark happened I would want nothing to do with you. There would be no trying to rekindle a friendship or whatever it was. No playing nice. You mess with my kid? You’re my enemy now.

That scene was the peak of their respective characters(they seem the most like their book counterparts) because by the next episode whatever development they had gets thrown out the window which is pretty jarring.

I get they have a history, but they should rightfully hate each other. The characterization just isn’t making sense. The writers just won’t let them move forward and show that these women are actually powerful women which is the opposite of what they are claiming to do 🫠

I agree with you that they need to scale back on trying to make Alicent look like she doesn’t know what’s going on at every turn and yeah Rhaenyra is much more like Cersei than Alicent(just way less interesting to me, but still extremely delusional).

It’s pretty clear at this point the writers have a problem showing that while a woman can be abused or a “victim of the patriarchy” she can still have agency and exert a version of power especially over those who are beneath her.

Book!Alicent had to tow the line of Viserys wishes, but the moment he was on deaths doors she had everything in order. She wasted no time in taking control of the situation. She wasn’t clueless. She wasn’t shocked by what was happening. She was instrumental in crowning her son king. The show drops that in favor of how shes a lost puppy who’s shocked by what the men are doing and she just wants her bestie back.

Book!Rhaenyra knowns that she’s above it all, she can do whatever she wants cause she’s the exception, and she does exactly that. Adult show!Rhaenyra thinks she has 0 power(which is utterly stupid considering does whatever and daddy dearest covered her a** 24/7. If she truly had no power she wouldn’t do half the stuff she does). They are trying to make her a good girl who’s just been wronged, or at least Dany 2.0, when she’s not.

The book characterization needs to come out at this point because what’s happening now isn’t making any sense. Don’t hold back and white wash these characters to make them “likable” or “sympathetic.”Show who they really are. Let them have agency.

#alicent characterization #Rhaenyra characterization #hotd ask #house of the dragon #hotd #hotd spoilers #bnasks #bnask #alicent hightower #rhaenyra targaryen