#prolly nit it's one of those cases where my brain won't shut up until i let it scream

[roxannepolice]

I guess brainrot over the idea of an ineffable husbands style tensimm kiss won't let me sleep so.

I think, leaving aside the general collective unconscious and David Tennant in a telepathic mode of transport, the main reason the dynamic hit as so similar is this kind of. Absolute versus relational morality? I mean, this is what's on the deepest level, because the most apparent aspect is the idea that one of these semi immortal entities believes the other can be kind of restored to the state of goodness? And not just this person specifically, I think Aziraphale in general and the Doctor mainly as Twelve tbh just have this worldview where good is somehow definite and in a way natural for the universe? Oh yes, Twelve will be making speeches about whether he's a good man but the very asking of such a question implies "good man" is something definite, something that one can be. And oh yes there may be villains and monsters but you know if we all just sat down and talked then sure everything could be figured out. And this is more obvious than ever in his attitude towards Missy, where y'know. She just never heard the music. Whatever that metaphor means. Just as Aziraphale assumes Crowley can just be restored to the angelic status, because sure it was just a misunderstanding right he means he's not actually evil right? In a sense, pre-time angelicness and childhood are parallel in that they both assume a mind that hasn't developed individuality yet and I guess this is why Moffat is obsessed with throwing children at the audience 24/7.

And I find it fascinating that where everyone sees Aziraphale is wrong (or, indeed just needs to figure out Heaven is evil), Twelve's clockwork orange vault is generally hailed as reaching out to the truth behind the Master that Missy got closer to than any regeneration we've seen. For some reason, because sure as hell not because of anything that happened in EOT. And that's writing for you: if it's intelligent enough you'll look at something fundamentally similar and see completely different things.

Now, Crowley and the Master have more relational relational ethics - and relational is not the same as relative. And sure as hell don't think the universe or any individual will "naturally" veer towards good. In fact, they're both pretty cynical about, at least human, nature. Difference is Crowley needs to get drunk from Spanish inquisition, while the Master thoroughly enjoys letting future humans go murder their ancestors for fun. I mean, Missy even calls the Doctor out for his absolute and sentimental idea of good, except that's framed as her being in the wrong. And then there's the whole "Paradise. You've destroyed paradise! - They were lazy. I made them hungry" exchange between War and Saxon Masters in Masterful. Serpent in Eden, anyone?

And I think that this is why tensimm give off those vibes that they were closer to understanding each other than ever before. Obviously, the moral divide is still there, as it has to be, but I think Ten, especially in EOT, is more aware of how easily one can slip into a vengeful god, and all this to SAVE someone, than ever before. So while the moral divide is arguably widest it's ever been, the perceptual differences between the Doctor and the Master are almost gone in those episodes. And I suppose the metaphor of the Doctor hearing the drums is pretty pertinent here.

Now, before there's any accusation of moral nihilism on my part - no, there isn't. I specifically wrote of moral relationality not relativism. An action or attitude can be good or evil, the thing is that every individual exists in a net of their relations to others that they can't get out of through spontaneous epiphany. And at the same time the idea of absolute good is necessary, precisely because the general momentum is towards... the opposite. At the same time, there is nothing vile that hasn't been done in the name of higher good. Again, dialectics.

Which is why I say the Master (the Simm!Master, reduced as he was) fell where he stood no less that the Doctor in season 10. Like, this absolutely wasn't the intended point and I still say the mutual suicide was peak contrivance, but. work's intent. And all of this goes back to platonists vs. sophists, you know.

So anyway, it's still Ten that desperately grabs Saxon's lapels and kisses him in hopes of making him stay where they can be happy together.

#am i making any sense #prolly nit it's one of those cases where my brain won't shut up until i let it scream #anyway #doctor who meta #good omens meta #doctor who x good omens #the doctor #tenth doctor #twelth doctor #the master #simm!master #gomez!master #thoschei #ineffable husbands #philosophy in doctor who