#just another instance of Theon not being able to do anything right

[grey-joys]

Theon saying he should’ve earned praise/a smile from Robb for saving Bran can be so personal to a teenaged girl

#I’m twenty now but it hit hard #like okay he should’ve been watching bran the entire time but also it was something I felt deep in my dumb brain #just another instance of Theon not being able to do anything right #theon greyjoy #robb stark #bran stark #game of thrones #asoiaf #stupid squid thoughts #valyrianscrolls

[mrsjadecurtiss]

Another ask, if you have the inclination: I've just been rereading Reek III with all that entails, and Theon thinks about 'the son is just the shadow of the father' re Roose and Ramsay. Do you believe that Roose can actually be as bad or worse than Ramsay at this point? He's got to be worse than average and his morals very lacking, but it's hard to imagine us being made to abhor him more than Ramsay in the remaining books. Is it just Theon's terrified paranoia, or do you think it can pay off somehow? 🤔 Or am I misinterpreting that line do you think?

Do you believe that Roose can actually be as bad or worse than Ramsay at this point? He's got to be worse than average and his morals very lacking [...].

This is a trap, he is playing with you, the son is just the shadow of the father. Lord Ramsay played with his hopes all the time. - Reek III, aDwD

This is no man to jape with. You had only to look at Bolton to know that he had more cruelty in his pinky toe than all the Freys combined. - Reek III, aDwD

I believe quotes like these refer to the effect of the cruelty they enact, rather than the specific crimes.

Ramsay is vile and cruel, enacting heinous violence upon people like a slasher movie villain. We do not have any evidence that Roose personally inflicts the same degree of crass violence upon people, as even in his presumably candid retelling of the miller's wife story, while a horrifying and inexcusable crime, he does not reach the extreme level of violence Ramsay inflicts upon smallfolk on the regular with his hunts and torturings.

"Roose Bolton's cold and cunning, aye, but a man can deal with Roose. We've all known worse. But this bastard son of his … they say he's mad and cruel, a monster." - Davos III, aDwD

The point, i believe, is not who produces the worst feats of violence, but rather another facette of grrms criticism of feudalism:

Would Ramsay even have a chance to do these heinous crimes if his father, who knows about everything, had an ounce of morality in him?

[Roose:] "All you have I gave you. You would do well to remember that, bastard." - Reek III, aDwD

Everything Ramsay has, his high position, the freedom to do all the crimes he wants, the protection from law that would have otherwise sent him to the wall in no time, he has because of his father's selfishness. Roose could have stopped these crimes from happening, he could have given Ramsay the appropriate punishment, instead he keeps Ramsay around because he feels like it...

Roose is at the top of his society, answering to barely anyone except his overlord and his king; so much power is at his fingertips, and yet he uses it for selfish reasons, commits crimes, allows crimes to happen in full knowledge, and everything is handled as it benefits him instead of abiding to morality or law. Every crime Ramsay does is Roose' responsibility as feudal lord and thus his crime.

"When soldiers lack discipline, the fault lies with their lord commander," his father said. - Tyrion VIII, aGoT

Roose is called the leech lord, and indeed he is a leech upon society, bleeding his people dry to his own benefit while not lifting a finger himself. While he is not a literal vampire, obviously parts of his character are a play on vampire myths, and the aristocratic bloodsucking vampire is frequently used as a metaphor for critique of the ruling class (i hear Fever Dream by grrm plays with this, though i have not read it). He might not commit a Texas Chainsaw Massacre in person, but that doesn't make him any less morally bankrupt and despicable, and he still has the same blood on his hands.

There is a tendency where Roose tries to lighten his crimes in conversation - here are three examples showing different facettes:

"The arrogance of it! They do not expect the north to believe their lies, not truly, but they think we must pretend to believe or die. Roose Bolton lies about his part in the Red Wedding, and his bastard lies about the fall of Winterfell." - Davos IV, aDwD

[Roose:] "Tell me, my lord … if the kinslayer is accursed, what is a father to do when one son slays another?" - Reek III, aDwD

[Roose:] "The maesters will tell you that King Jaehaerys abolished the lord's right to the first night to appease his shrewish queen, but where the old gods rule, old customs linger. The Umbers keep the first night too, deny it as they may. Certain of the mountain clans as well, and on Skagos … well, only heart trees ever see half of what they do on Skagos." - Reek III, aDwD

1. Denial of involvement - Roose frequently either escapes blame completely (for example for Duskendale), puts blame on someone else (like blaming Ramsay's bastard blood for Winterfell), or lies about his crimes to evade blame.

2. Selectively invoking law - using the kinslaying law, he pretends his hands are tied when it comes to Ramsay, even though he could for example also send him to the wall as punishment. He frequently breaks laws as he pleases and also took part in breaking sacred contracts such as guest right (red wedding), so him invoking law in this instance is likely a tool to absolve himself of blame during the conversation.

3. Comparing himself to others to lessen his own acts, after failing to escape blame - by bringing the Umbers etc into the conversation, he tries to make himself look less bad; "look, everyone's doing it, and the skagosi are probably even worse than me!"

As opposed to Ramsay, he is aware of how the severity of the crimes he is doing would be received by others. He likes to present himself as a rational and civilized man, and thus has an interest to downplay his criminal actions, even if he does not see anything wrong with them as he did them for his own benefit.

"No tales were ever told of me. Do you think I would be sitting here if it were otherwise?" - Reek III, aDwD

"That annoyed me, so I gave her the mill and had the brother's tongue cut out, to make certain he did not go running to Winterfell with tales that might disturb Lord Rickard." - Reek III, aDwD

As the Mormonts were bannermen to the Starks, [Jorah's] crime had dishonored the north. Ned had made the long journey west to Bear Island, only to find when he arrived that Jorah had taken ship beyond the reach of Ice and the king's justice. - Eddard II, aGoT

The foolish Ramsay tries to pride himself in his crimes; Roose however knows of the importance of optics. He is aware that he frequently breaks the law, and tries his best to keep his reputation intact as to not attract unwanted attention; especially with an overlord like Ned Stark, who would not handwave any crime and would make sure justice is served.

From what we can observe, in my opinion the difference between Roose and Ramsay is that Roose doesn't see anything wrong with comitting violence as long as the result is of a benefit for him, while Ramsay additionally also commits violence because he merely finds enjoyment in inflicting it, violence for violence's sake. This is why Roose is able to control himself and always gives Ramsay the advice to be restrained, but Ramsay is unable and unwilling to do so and his acts are much more extreme. Roose is likely starting to realize this difference by aDwD.

Is it just Theon's terrified paranoia [...]?

I do also believe Theon's statement is fueled by paranoia, if you look at the entire context:

"I mean you no harm, you know. I owe you much and more." - "You do?" Some part of him was screaming, This is a trap, he is playing with you, the son is just the shadow of the father. Lord Ramsay played with his hopes all the time. "What … what do you owe me, m'lord?" - "The north. The Starks were done and doomed the night that you took Winterfell." He waved a pale hand, dismissive. "All this is only squabbling over spoils." - Reek III, aDwD

Roose is not necessarily tricking Theon here since it appears to be a correct statement; And he does have an interest to be on friendly terms with Theon (offering him fresh clothes for example) because he wants to make use of his position as heir to the iron islands, a goal he expressed as early as a Storm of Swords.

"Flaying Theon will not bring my brothers back," Robb said. "I want his head, not his skin." - "He is Balon Greyjoy's only living son," Lord Bolton said softly, as if they had forgotten, "and now rightful King of the Iron Islands. A captive king has great value as a hostage." - Catelyn VI, aCoK

"Serve us in this, and when Stannis is defeated we will discuss how best to restore you to your father's seat," his lordship had said in that soft voice of his, a voice made for lies and whispers. Theon never believed a word of it. - The Prince of Winterfell, aDwD

Note that here Theon does not believe him either, any trust he has shattered by Ramsay as well as Roose' unlikable personality. Still it seems likely Roose was really somewhat trying to be nice with Theon, because as he tries to teach Ramsay there's value in it:

"Power tastes best when sweetened by courtesy. You had best learn that if you ever hope to rule." - Reek III, aDwD

Do you think it can pay off somehow?

This is speculation, but i believe Roose' story is likely headed in the opposite direction - A Storm of Swords featured his greatest villainous feat, the Red Wedding, a showcase of cruelty and treacherousness. I do not think it will be followed up by an act of even greater cruelty; instead i think he will finally reap what he has sown.

Roose Bolton said nothing at all. But Theon Greyjoy saw a look in his pale eyes that he had never seen before — an uneasiness, even a hint of fear.

That night the new stable collapsed beneath the weight of the snow that had buried it. - a Ghost in Winterfell, aDwD

I believe the line about the stable is meant as a metaphor for his regime collapsing, as it is put directly after the line where he realizes the situation is growing dire for him.

It all seemed so familiar, like a mummer show that he had seen before. Only the mummers had changed. Roose Bolton was playing the part that Theon had played the last time round, and the dead men were playing the parts of Aggar, Gynir Rednose, and Gelmarr the Grim. - a Ghost in Winterfell, aDwD

Roose is likely going to continue the parallel with Theon as his arc goes steadily downwards. He is a foil to Ned; where Ned died but his legacy lives on, Roose will likely live to see his legacy crumble.

There is of course a possibility that he, when cornered, starts expressing more cruelty as a last-ditch effort. We saw the stable used as a metaphor for his rule in Winterfell; but there is another interesting detail about the reconstruction of the burned Winterfell:

Serve well, Lord Bolton told them, and he would be merciful. Stone and timber were plentiful with the wolfswood so close at hand. Stout new gates had gone up first, to replace those that had been burned. Then the collapsed roof of the Great Hall had been cleared away and a new one raised hurriedly in its stead. When the work was done, Lord Bolton hanged the workers. True to his word, he showed them mercy and did not flay a one. - the Prince of Winterfell, aDwD

Aegon the Conqueror had commanded [the Red Keep] built. His son Maegor the Cruel had seen it completed. Afterward he had taken the heads of every stonemason, woodworker, and builder who had labored on it. Only the blood of the dragon would ever know the secrets of the fortress the Dragonlords had built, he vowed. - Catelyn IV, aGoT

This is a crack theory, but perhaps Roose has something up his sleeve when it comes to the newly constructed roof of the Great Hall (a location that features extremely prominently through all of Theon's aDwD Winterfell chapters). Maybe he could make it crash intentionally to bury his treacherous allies or something like that...

I doubt however that he will do Ramsay-style extreme violence, i can't really see a reason and it doesn't appear to be his style. He seems more about cunning than flashy displays.

As always these are not PoV characters, so as long as we don't have a view inside their heads we can never say anything with 100% certainty.

#asoiaf #roose bolton #ramsay bolton #asoiaf meta #a song of ice and fire #asks #mzyraj #sorry if i went a little off topic ajsjdjfjxjd #im like roose i just love going on a tangent of someone gives me an opportunity to talk #also ive seen your other question its very interesting #ill see when i can get to it

[justmyimagination92]

Why Kylo Ren/Ben Solo and Theon Greyjoy are similar, beautifully grey and real characters that represent overcoming abuse and manipulation and it makes no sense to love one but hate the other, a thread:

*Disclaimer* I have only watched the GoT series & SW movies, I have not read the books or comics for either series but I have done research into both so anything I’m pulling that’s not from the movies or show has been taken from research/information I have gathered from others who have used these sources for their own opinions/arguments/statements as well as from a GoT class I took my senior year of college

Life of Mental/Physical Abuse:

They both had mentally abusive upbringings which is obvious to say has a huge effect on your development and how you perceive the world around you. Theon was the youngest of 4, known to cling more to his mother and not care as much about the ironborn mentality of piracy and raiding as his older brothers did. He was constantly tormented and bullied by them for it as well as feeling neglected by his father for “showing weakness” which made him feel like he didn’t belong and wasn’t accepted in his home. He was then sent off to be Ned Stark’s ward (prisoner) and would be executed if Balon tried to rebel against the throne again. This knowledge is constantly hanging over his head and threatening him even though he makes the best of the situation, especially by finding a brother in Robb. The North and most of the Stark family don’t accept him despite his best efforts in trying to do his best while also missing the Iron Islands and not being able to fulfill his right as the heir to the salt throne

Ben has been mentally abused since he was in his mother’s womb. Palpatine has been in his head since he was conceived, trying to seduce him to the dark because he knew the power Ben would possess from his family. Now were his parents abusive towards him like Balon, Maron, and Rodrik were to Theon? No. But they were afraid of who he could become which definitely drove him towards becoming what they were afraid of to begin with. He felt isolated and alone. Aside from questioning why his parents were afraid of him with no explanation (making him feel like he was some sort of monster), Han was gone the majority of his upbringing and Leia was building the New Republic. He was often left with droids to watch him, further developing his isolation. There’s also apparently an instance where a droid fantasized about killing him and how they’d be able to cover it up? Eventually, L&H sent him off to be trained by Luke due to their growing fear of him becoming like Vader, but he didn’t know because they never told him Vader was his grandfather. He ended up finding out later on when it was announced at a senate meeting that was broadcasted on the holonet. (Keep in mind he’s consistently being mentally tormented and tempted by the dark but fighting it off)

Loss of Identity:

I think you can argue that Theon and Ben have struggled with their identity their entire lives. Before Theon was taken to Winterfell he already felt like he didn’t belong. Then he does his duty as Ned’s ward, placing him in the midst of the rest of the Starks and trying to figure out his place without stepping out of line but also wanting to fit in as best as he can. After Ned dies and he’s at war with Robb he is able to return home to persuade Balon in lending his fleet to help Robb. Balon refuses and now Theon is stuck in deciding if he should help Robb or win over his father and take back his place as a Greyjoy. He leads an attack at Winterfell, betraying his loyalty to Robb, killing two farm boys that all of Westeros believes is Brand and Rickon, which leads to him getting overthrown by the Boltons taking Winterfell back, putting him in the hands of Ramsay who tortures him mentally, physically, and spiritually to the point where he takes on the persona of Reek and truly believes that’s who he is, who he was meant to be and who he deserves to be

Ben has also had this lifelong struggle. He’s tried to follow what his parents have taught him while fighting everything going on in his head. He looked up to his dad and wanted to be a pilot like him despite Han being gone a majority of the time. Not to mention just the pressure he faced with being Han & Leia’s son as well as Luke Skywalker’s nephew. But he could sense and sometimes hear his parents discuss their fear of who he is/who he will be. He was under the impression that they thought he was or could become some sort of monster and gave him no explanation on why they would think that and then was sent off to train with Luke (when there’s no real indication that he wanted that, he just voiced how he wanted to be a pilot) Luke could sense the same darkness in him as H&L but instead of helping him and having a conversation about it he decided to sneak into Ben’s tent one night and kill him before his fears came true. Ben awoke to his own uncle standing over him with an ignited lightsaber about to strike him down. Yes, Luke regretted it the minute he ignited it but it was too late, Ben was awake and betrayed. What he didn’t do (but the galaxy thought he did) was destroy the Jedi temple and the rest of the padawans, a higher power (most likely Palpatine) did and Ben was upset about it and he didn’t want them all to die. He felt like he had nowhere else to go and succumbed to the voice that had been tormenting him for 23 years (but in a way was the only consistent thing in his life) and went to Snoke. He felt unwanted, untrusted, and doomed to become this awful being everyone around him thought he would. He took on the persona Kylo Ren and allowed Snoke to continue to torture him mentally and now physically and spiritually to ultimately turn him into Snoke's chess piece to take over the galaxy

Path of bad decisions driven by the need to please their abuser who gives false hope of a home:

Parts of this are redundant but they both have made some terrible decisions that were heavily influenced by the manipulation of their abusers and a need for a sense of acceptance and belonging. Theon wanted to please Balon and later Ramsay, Kylo wanted to please Snoke and his grandfather (who we later find out was all Palpatine). The majority of deaths that Kylo is blamed for were under Snoke’s orders and Kylo was either unaware they were happening or tried to prevent them and resort to other solutions to get whatever it is they wanted. He killed his father because he was convinced it would make him stronger and reach his potential on “who he’s destined to be” when really it tore him apart and destroyed him, 

similarly to how Theon felt after he killed those farm boys and saw what his actions had created for Winterfell and Westeros 

Acceptance of “who they truly are” through self-hatred and regret:

Through this they come to terms with their actions and the destruction that has followed from those actions. They believe they deserve the pain and suffering they’ve had their whole lives. Theon is constantly saying how Theon is dead, he’s Reek and he deserves to be. Ben states how Ben is dead, he’s only Kylo now and that he deserves to be seen as a monster.  

Needing help to be pulled back to their true selves:

Their inner conflict is clear through both of their journeys and it’s clear that others can see that. They need help to be pulled in the right direction and reminded that they’re not the person they think they are. Yara comes for Theon when everyone else has given up on him. He’s her brother and regardless of what he’s done she still cares for him and believes in him. However, even the love of his sister can’t persuade him or break the abusive turmoil he’s been suffering and he stays with Ramsay as Reek. 

Then Sansa comes, someone he has grown up with and cares for. She learns the truth that he didn’t kill Bran and Rickon. She knows who Theon really is and she brings him back, she needs him back and gives him the strength to do it. 

Similarly, we see Han trying to bring Ben back in TFA, and like with Yara and Theon, it doesn’t work. He believes Ben is dead, that his family gave up on him and he did too so he can only be Kylo now. And as we see later on, the act of killing Han only made it worse and caused a deeper pain and regret to Ben as well as the conflict on where he lies in the force. In TLJ we see this and how Kylo seems to be chipping away from coming to terms with everything he’s done. 

(I would also like to point out that in TLJ Ben couldn’t kill his mother and it’s stated that had he noticed quick enough he would’ve stopped the blasters from hitting the bridge) He gets a connection with Rey, who at first wants nothing to do with him and sees him as the monster he thinks he is. But similarly to Sansa, she finds out the story Luke told her about him destroying the Jedi Temple was a lie and from then on they’re able to console in one another and understand the pain and isolation they’ve both felt their whole lives. 

When Luke refuses to go back and help Rey and the resistance she takes it upon herself to go and fight to bring Ben back to the light because she can see that he’s still there.

Taking a stand against their abusers, specifically to help save someone they love:

They both go against their abusers and take a huge leap towards taking back their true selves. Theon wants to help Sansa and she gives him a few chances too, for example with the candle but he ends up telling Ramsay. However when Ramsay is gone Sansa is crossed by Miranda and even though he’s still filled with fear and conflict, he throws Miranda off the ledge to save Sansa and finally defies his tormentor and everything that he’s done.

Kylo retrieves Rey when she lands on the capital ship and takes her to see Snoke. In the elevator they both state how they’ve had a vision of seeing them by each other’s sides. Kylo takes it as Rey joining him in the dark but Rey sees it as him reclaiming who he was supposed to be and even refers to him as Ben which he responds to. 

(for the majority of knowing him she called him Kylo, monster, etc but since they touched hands and she saw the conflict she now sees him as a real person and more importantly Ben) Snoke wants Kylo to kill her in order to reach is full potential since killing Han only made him question the path he was going down even more. However, he tricks Snoke and instead kills him instead of Rey, destroying his abuser and saving Rey who is the only one he’s ever been able to connect to.

Reclaiming their identity:

Even though they have someone in their corner, believing in them and helping them to come back to who they are, it takes time. Theon stays with Sansa until they cross paths with Brienne and Podrick and knows she’ll be safe with them. He then heads back to the Iron Islands to join Yara and help her however he can. He still feels as though he’s Reek and doesn’t deserve any redemption or to be trusted/loved. 

Overtime those who still believe in him and given time to heal he reclaims himself as Theon Greyjoy, not even the one from before, but a better and stronger man because it’s who he chooses and wants to be. He saves Yara from Euron and goes back to Winterfell to help fight against the dead. He protects Bran at the Weirwood tree bringing it back and trying to rewrite his wrong when he took Winterfell from Bran and caused him to abandon his home. Even though Arya is the one to ultimately save Bran by killing the Night King, she wouldn’t have been able to without Theon and his sacrifice.

Now Kylo’s is a little different and his journey back to Ben takes a few more steps. Killing Snoke was supposed to be him reclaiming himself and finally getting rid of the demons that have been haunting him his entire life. But now we’re aware that Palpatine created Snoke and was the one who has been in his head the whole time so really those voices are still there, abusing and tormenting him to do what they want. Except now he has something more to fight for. He knows Rey believes in him and they have a bond, a force dyad, that hasn’t been seen for centuries. We don’t get to see much of how Supreme Leader Kylo Ren deals with First Order affairs but I would assume it would be different from how Snoke handled it considering (as stated earlier) Kylo tried to get what they needed in the easiest way, preventing as much unnecessary harm or death. (I also would like to point out that at the beginning of TROS we see Kylo in Mustafar and all of the people he’s killing are Vader cultists so they were bad beings) He then travels to Palpatine who reveals it’s been him all along in his head and Kylo threatens to kill him, but then palp shows his army he’s been creating, how it could be Kylo’s, and reveals who Rey truly is. Palp wants him to kill her and he tricks him into thinking he will when really he chases her around to tell her this information as well as see if it’s true and to prevent her from getting killed. They fight a lot but it’s always Rey initiating it and Ben defending himself when he needs to. He gets distracted during one of their fights because Leia is reaching out to him and in the process, Rey stabs him with his own lightsaber (death of Kylo Ren) but ends up healing him and tells him that she did want him, the real him

He then has a vision of Han and basically reenacts what happened in TFA but has it play out how he wished it did the first time. He is now truly Ben Solo and goes to Exogal to help Rey and defeat Palpatine. After Rey kills Palpatine she dies and Ben comes back (he was thrown down deep pit) and transfers his life force to her to save her. Like the situation with Theon, if Ben wasn’t there Rey wouldn’t have been able to defeat Palpatine and save the galaxy.

Only got to live in peace with themselves for like 2 minutes:

They both get complex, intriguing, and beautiful arcs of redemption that represent realistic struggles of life and grey morality that people face throughout their lives. But they both end with a terrible message that the only way to fully redeem yourself from past mistakes, bad decisions (even if it was influenced by a life of mental/physical abuse) is to sacrifice yourself.

Theon sacrificed himself to save Bran and the fate of Westeros and was only able to be at peace with himself for about the last 20 seconds of his life because Bran forgave him, told him he was a good man and confirmed the type of person Theon really is and always wanted to be.

he deserved to feel this way for a MUCH longer time and continue to heal and grow and live a life that gave him much more peace and happiness (preferably with Sansa 😏) but instead he only gets to feel good about himself for the first time in his life and have it only last for a moment.

Once Rey defeated Palpatine it’s safe to say that the voices stopped in Ben’s head. There’s no more tormenting, persuading, or taunting. He climbs out of the pit to find Rey dead (his literal other half) and channels the rest of his energy to bring her back and it works. Similar to Bran, Rey confirms her joy and acceptance of Ben being back 

and he would’ve been fully content with that, but Rey kisses him and he smiles for the first fucking time we’ve ever seen. His mind is at peace, Rey is alive in his arms and for the first time he is truly happy. And then he DIES. 

Who knows what would’ve happened to him and how the resistance would’ve reacted, but he deserved the opportunity to atone for the mistakes he made, live life with a clear mind, as well as continue to be the other half of Rey that brought balance to the force and galaxy.

Bonus:

They both deserve to be with the only person that fully understands them and their pain and can grow, heal, and live in peace together.

#reylo #theonsa #ben solo #kylo ren #rey #rey skywalker #rey palpatine #sansa #sansa stark #theon #theon greyjoy #reek #star wars #game of thrones #got #sw #twitter got it so tumblr does too #adam driver #daisey ridley #sophie turner #alfie allen

[fortunatelylori]

I love Jon and Sansa's not so sibling relationship and I love Theon and Yara's sibling relationship. I'm sure there are connections between the two. Can you list the ways in which they are foils? Thank you!

Hey, nonnie!

Sorry for taking so long to answer this. I’ve had to spend some time thinking about how I was going to tackle it because I’m not sure I’m quite the right person to answer this question. 

My main issue is that I don’t particularly like Yara as a character and I’m not all together happy with the way the show has handled the Yara/Theon relationship. 

So, please ignore me while I go on a rant about my issues with Yara and then I will go on to attempt to draw a few parallel/foil examples between Theon/Yara and Jonsa. 

I have a pretty hard time talking about Yara because in theory she’s a great character: she looks and acts badass but is still emotional and invested in the well-being of the people she cares about, she’s funny and charming and Gemma Whelan is a wonderful actress who looks and acts the part. However, that’s the theory and the actress. 

My problem with her is that in narrative terms, she’s very much a character that talks the talk but doesn’t walk the walk. If this was an in-story flaw, I’d have no problems with it but it isn’t. This is the writers wanting to have a badass female character but also not wanting her to overpower the male characters in the show. 

I’ll give you a few examples: 

Yara coming to rescue Theon from Ramsay 

I absolutely loved Yara standing up to her father, calling him a coward and saying she was going to save “her little brother”. However, she ends up at the Dreadfort and runs away the moment a shirtless man and his dogs scream at her. There was so much emotional build-up to that scene for it to fizzle out because the writers wanted to protect Ramsay not just from death, but from any significant injury/consequence.

Yara’s pitch for the Salt Throne 

Since her introduction, Yara has been presented as the real reaver in this story. Tough, able, brave, knowledgeable, we were lead to believe people whole heartily supported her and even more importantly that she knew exactly how to talk to these people and what she needed to do for them. Then Yara makes her pitch as queen and all of a sudden not only do people point to Theon as a better option because he’s male (even though they scorned him when he first showed up on the Iron Islands) but end up very quickly turning on her and picking Euron, a guy they haven’t seen in years, over her. But that’s not even the most egregious thing. We could always chalk that up to male privilege. 

The real issue is that when Yara makes her speech, she says very little of any real substance and then the moment she’s challenged, she becomes flustered. It’s up to Theon to make the salient points she should have made and then the writers give the truly revolutionary ideas to Euron who wants to develop and raise the Iron Born past the level of thugs they’ve been stuck in for centuries. 

Euron’s attack on the Blackwater

Yara is supposed to be a battle hardened naval commander but Euron manages to surprise her and defeat her with little to no effort. I don’t have an issue with Yara losing the battle but the entire set-up shows her as being incompetent because not only didn’t she think there was a chance they’d get attacked, she didn’t take any precautions in the likelihood that it would happen. 

Then there’s the Yara/Theon relationship and the two issues I have with that. :))) (Hang in there, nonnie! We’re almost done)

Yara’s sexuality and how that is used to shame Theon for not having a dick

Notice how almost all of the Yara/Theon scenes post-castration take place in brothels or situations where a woman is hitting on Yara? Don’t get me wrong. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with the show celebrating and highlighting Yara’s love for women. However, that’s not really what they’re doing. They’re essentially using those moments for cringe comedy and as humiliation for the fact that Theon’s not able to partake because … he doesn’t have a dick! Get it?!? Look how sad he is! Get it?!?

Nor is this the show trying to have a commentary on the issue of Theon’s castration trauma (which would be great but alas) but rather this is a narrative punishment/joke. And I don’t really appreciate that. 

And then there’s this:

Yara: Listen to me. If you’re so broken that there’s no coming back, take a knife and cut your wrists. End it. But if you’re staying, Theon, I need you. We’re going to sail to Mereen. We’re going to make a pact with this dragon queen and we’re going to take back the Iron Islands. Are you with me? 

If this was a singular case in this series, I would chalk it up to Yara being callous and ignorant about the profound and lasting effects torture and PTSD have on a person. But Brienne gave Jaime a similar “tough talk” when she disapproved of him being depressed over having lost his hand. 

Brienne: Coward. One misfortune and you’re giving up? […] You have a taste of the real world, where people have important things taken from them and you whine and cry and quit. You sound like a bloody woman!

The message seems to be that all you need to get over trauma is a tough as nails badass woman screaming at you. Add some good ol’ fashion misogyny on top of it for good measure and you’re good to go. 

Had your hand amputated? Stop “whining”! Still unsure how to get passed systematic torture and castration? Either put a band aid on it or kill yourself, we’ve got important shit to do. Can’t possibly waste any time on empathy, understanding and emotional support. 

Again, I can’t really blame Yara or Brienne for that matter. This is the writers thinking that anyone who becomes a victim and doesn’t move past it as fast as humanly possible and also “toughens up”, is inherently weak. I hate that mindset and I hate the old “other people have it worse” argument. Yes, I’m sure other people have it worse. That is no reason to dismiss individual pain and how traumatic events in our lives affect us personally. 

Now that’s out of the way, let’s look at a few instances where Theon/Yara act like foils to Jonsa. These will be broad because I don’t think these two relationships are set-up in opposition to each other, the way Jaime/Cersei and Jonsa are:

The relationship dynamic and roles

Yara and Theon are very much a relationship that operates under the clear hierarchy of big sister/little brother. This was established the moment Yara was revealed as his sister and continues to this day. In the beginning this was highlighted by Yara making fun of Theon, proving she’s better than him but also giving him heartfelt advice at Winterfell and bonding with him over having a shitty father. It was carried over into Yara protecting or rather trying to protect Theon. 

Post-Ramsay, Yara is the leader that drags Theon after her. This inequality is further supported by Theon giving his claim to the Salt Throne in order to continue having a relationship with Yara. So in addition to being big sister/little brother, they’re also queen/right hand of the queen.  

These established roles are completely missing from Jon and Sansa’s relationship and, in many ways, this is the true source of their disagreements and tension. What are they? Are they big brother/little sister? Are they true born/bastard? Are they King in the North/right hand to the king? None really fit … Jon doesn’t submit to Sansa’s authority and she doesn’t submit to his. The only way their relationship works is if they behave as equals. Anything less, I think would be unacceptable for either one of them. 

Not only that, but rather than enforce an hierarchy, Jon and Sansa spend their time validating each other: 

Jon: We’re standing here because of you. I’ve had the Lord’s chamber prepared for you. 

Sansa: Mother and father’s room? You should have it. 

Jon: I’m not a Stark. 

Sansa: You are to me. 

Sansa: You’re good at this, you know. Ruling. 

Sansa: They respect you. They really do. 

Jon: You know Tyrion better than any of us. What do you think?

Sansa: You’re abandoning your people. You’re abandoning your home. 

Jon: I’m leaving both in good hands. 

Sansa: Whose? 

Jon: Yours. Until I return, the North is yours. 

Arguments

Yara and Theon have a very typical sibling/relatives relationship. They say the most vile things to each other and then move on as if nothing happened because that’s how family works. (Yara does most of the saying in these quotes but you get my meaning)

Yara: Why! It’s the Prince of Winterfell!

Theon: Envy isn’t attractive. 

Yara: You were a terrible baby, you know that? Bawling all the time. Never sleeping. And one night you just wouldn’t shut up. Screaming like a dying pig. I walked over to your crib. I looked down at you. I wanted to strangle you. 

Yara: I’m tired of seeing you cower like a dog. 

Yara: I need Theon. The real Theon Greyjoy. Not this rat shit pretender. 

Jon and Sansa, on the other hand, can’t get away with saying things like this to one another. Their relationship just doesn’t allow for it. And it isn’t because they’re not close or because they aren’t comfortable with each other. But rather that whatever one of them says/does affects the other very deeply. 

All through season 6, Sansa was in desperate need of validation from Jon. She takes it personally that he trusts Davos and Tormund and feels he prefers them to her. She gets angry that he didn’t specifically ask for her opinion prior to the battle. 

There’s also this: 

Jon: You sound like you admire her. [Cersei]

Sansa: I learned a great deal fromher. 

Look at that scene and tell meSansa isn’t hurt that Jon thinks she admires Cersei or isn’t affected by hisdisapproval. 

As well as: 

Jon: And how should I be smarter?By listening to you?

And Jon …

Sansa: He plays with people. He’sfar better at it than you. He’s been doing it all his life. 

Jon: Aye? And what have I beendoing all my life? Playing with broomsticks?!?

 Jon: When you question my decisionsin front of the other lords and ladies, you undermine me. 

Sansa: Jofferey never let anyonequestion his decisions. Do you think he was a good king? 

Jon: Do you think I’m Jofferey?!?

Notice how nothing they say toone another or do to one another is as bad as Yara calling baby Theona “dying pig”. And yet they can’t handle it. Even something as Sam gentlyattacking Jon saying that he “hates” him after Jon admits to being enviousof Robb would probably not work. I mean can you imagine Jon’s face if Sansa,even jokingly, told him she hated him. She’d be better off sticking a knife inhis neck. It would probably hurt less. :)))

The sexual component 

Even though I noted that thescenes of Yara enjoying her sex life is a ham fisted way of reminding theaudience of Theon’s lack of sexual organs, I think it’s important to note thatTheon isn’t affected by the idea of Yara either having sex or beingromantically involved with someone. 

That’s the kind of lack ofworry that Jon “If you touch my sister, I’ll kill you myself” Snow andSansa “do you think he wants to marry her?!?” Stark would probablyenvy. 

And on that note, one of themost interesting things that denotes the differences between these two is how thetwo relationships start: 

Yara and Theon’s relationshipstarts on a shared horse ride to Pyke, where Theon fondles Yara’s breasts andprivate parts all the way there only to be horrified when he realizes she’s hissister. Since then, their relationship has been completely platonic and neitherone of them has ever given any indication that they’d like to revisit thatparticular incident. 

Jon and Sansa, on the otherhand, start off as long lost siblings who very quickly end up enacting marriageceremonies (the cloak), having passionate fights in tents, lingering foreheadkisses and … (to be continued in season 8). :))))

#theon x yara #jonsa

[blenderbender1811]

The Iron Queen: On Alannys Harlaw

There’s some high quality meta going around about lots of under appreciated women in ASOIAF who we just don’t know much about. Take literally anything written about Joanna Lannister ever by @joannalannister for instance. There’s not a whole lot to go on about Alannys Harlaw though. We don’t have much to go on - Theon rarely thinks about her and even Asha doesn’t talk much about her relationship with Alannys. But from what little we do know (and some good old fashioned head canon), here is my picture on what she was like and how her life turned out. Trigger warnings for discussions of physical abuse, including spousal abuse.

- She, her brother, and her sister got along but weren’t particularly close. That is to say - they enjoyed each other’s company and cared about each other, but they weren’t exactly the best of friends. Rodrik seems to spend most of his time talking about her when he wants to convince Asha not to go to the kingsmoot and Gwynesse mostly talks about her rights to Ten Towers. 

- I think @goodqueenaly is right when she suggests Alannys was married off to Balon because Quellon hoped Rodrik’s sister would be able to bring more progressive ideas into their marriage (and hopefully be on board with his reforms) (And PS - if you’re not following her, do. She ALSO writes great meta about under appreciated ladies). I also tend to think she and Balon were married rather young since during the Greyjoy Rebellion they had two sons who seemed to be grown men when they died. Westeros considers a grown man at 16 so I’m going to say Rodrik was 17 and Maron was 16. So let’s say Alannys and Balon were married at 17, the same year Balon became captain of a longship, that’s a nice milestone.

- I don’t think Quellon’s plan worked. I think Alannys was squarely in Balon’s corner in the Ironborn culture war. For both political reasons (if Balon becomes a king, she’d be a queen and their children would be princes and princesses) and personal reasons (I suspect the Old Way spoke more to the strong and proud Alannys - perhaps not as much as it did to Balon, but more than Quellon’s ideas did). I don’t see Alannys as anywhere near as bookish and interested in greenland thoughts as her brother. Quellon probably ended up sorely disappointed - as did Alannys when she realized why Quellon arranged their match. 

- From the scant descriptions we have of Alannys, we get ‘strong’, ‘proud’ and ‘fierce’ with ‘laughter in her eyes’. I think a lot of posts about Alannys focus on what she is now - a woman brokenhearted over the loss of her children, and that is fair. But there’s more to Alannys than that. This is the woman who ‘raised Asha to be bold’. I think Asha’s probably bolder than Alannys was, since Theon never thinks of her the way Asha did, but I do think she was more headstrong than the traditional Westerosi ideal lady. I see Alannys as someone who didn’t do things halfway. If she was happy, she was happy. If she was angry, she was angry. 

- Her and Balon’s relationship was tumultuous to say the very barest minimum. When things were good, they were good. I’m not sure I’d go so far as to say they were ever really in love, but I do think they were more or less on the same page and capable of enjoying each other’s company. But when things were bad, they were BAD. I imagine Balon got into quite a few furious arguments with his family (his dad, his stepmom, Euron, Aeron and Urri when they were being Aeron and Urri) and his wife was no exception. For her part, Alannys gave as good as she got - she was stubborn, fierce, and bold, you could not yell at her without her yelling back. There were days she would have killed him in his sleep and happily faced execution for it, and I do think there were days where one or the other laid hands on their spouse. So, yes, their relationship, much like a lot of Balon’s, was a big mess. I do think she cared at least a little about him when he died though - enough that she was convinced it was murder and would tell anyone who asked about it, even on days where she wasn’t as lucid. 

- I think she got along with Aeron (and probably Urrigon) and Victarion, just because I don’t see them fighting a lot (and Aeron doesn’t seem to harbour her any ill will when he tells Theon she’s at Ten Towers). She probably rolled her eyes at Aeron and Urri’s antics when they were younger and let Balon deal with it. They’re not HER little brothers making fools of herself. Euron on the other hand....I think most people could tell he was weird and off and I don’t think Alannys was an exception (though obviously nobody knew how bad he was until later, obviously, except Aeron). She probably kept her distance from him.

- As for Quellon, I don’t think she particularly hated him, but his obvious disappointment in her lack of support for his reforms probably kept them from warming up to each other. I don’t think they got along and so Alannys kept her children at a distance as well (which is why Theon and Asha never think much about their Grandfather). The person I think she REALLY disdained was his Piper wife. I can’t imagine the new Lady Greyjoy much enjoyed Pyke. It’s cold, bleak, and broke, especially compared to Pinkmaiden. I can see Alannys, a woman of relative action, growing annoyed VERY quickly. She probably kept her children away from her too and quietly (or not so quietly) was pleased when Balon ascended to his seat and his Piper stepmother fell from favour.

- I think Alannys loved all her children, but Theon was the one she was the closest too. He was her youngest, her baby boy, and he was so shy. I’m sure she was probably involved in raising her older two to be raiders, but Theon was only just learning when he was taken away and so she probably figured he’d grow out of his shyness. 

- I think Asha’s always been closer to Balon than to Alannys, and I think Alannys has always had a sort of conflict regarding her daughter. She delighted in how bold Asha was and obviously wanted to encourage her, but at the same time she also knew she was ‘supposed’ to be teaching Asha how to be a lady. I think there were definite times when Asha was being stubborn and Alannys was torn on how to react - she ‘should’ be shaking her and ordering her to act like a lady, but all she wants to do is give her daughter a hug and say ‘good girl’. I think for the most part, she ‘looked the other way’ when her daughter was off doing things she ‘shouldn’t’ and then she’s shrug and say ‘Sorry, Lord Quellon, didn’t see it, couldn’t stop her’. And then go off and laugh at whatever Asha’d done.

- Speaking of Asha, I like to think she gets her snark from her mother. I think Alannys DEFINITELY sassed anybody who gave her a hard time, especially after she became the Lady of Pyke. 

- After the Rebellion was over and her boys were gone, I think she and Balon were both broken up in different ways. I think Balon drank a lot and was particularly vicious when any chance of a raid came up (say, in the Stepstones). Meanwhile, for a long time, Alannys was just...numb. She couldn’t let herself feel anything because once those floodgates opened, EVERYTHING hit her at once. That numbness is probably when she began sleepwalking and searching for her boys. Both of them were haunted by their sons, that was for sure. I think they probably TRIED to have another baby, since Alannys was desperate for another son, but it didn’t happen. So they tried fostering and that didn’t work (and oh dear Drowned God, they were UNAMUSED when their maester caught Tristifer with Asha). 

- Sure enough, once the floodgates were open, there was no shutting them up again. Alannys was completely desolated by the loss of her three boys. She got up looking for them, forgot they died, and even began mistaking people for them (and ow, I just had a very painful mental image of her mistaking Aeron for Rodrik). I tend to see her vacillating between fury and misery before she finally had a breakdown.

- Her sister had a similar breakdown after her husband died in the rebellion, so I’m wondering if Harlaws are predisposed to break down in reaction to grief? Her sister focused on wanting her rights back, and Alannys focused on her dead children. 

- I don’t think she left until recently, when she contracted her cough. She was growing weaker, so Rodrik suggested to Balon that the more comfortable Harlaw might be better for her than Pyke, so they shipped her off. She’s been doing better - her cough comes and goes, but she’s eating more and is sleeping through the night and has days where she’s more lucid than others.

#Alannys Harlaw #Alannys Greyjoy #House Greyjoy #asoiaf meta #asoiaf headcanon #asoiaf

[wendynerdwrites]

Meta Repost #1: The Trident Fight: Why We Need to Stop Blaming Little Girls and Start Blaming Irresponsible Adults and the Awful Society They Perpetuate

It’s back!

I feel embarrassed that I feel the need to discuss the Trident scene in a meta at this point in time. It’s been four books and nearly twenty years since George R.R. Martin wrote the damn thing, and yet people still keep bringing this up as not only A defining moment for certain characters, but THE defining moment for certain characters. Especially for Sansa.

This is wrong. The person to be angry at isn’t Sansa or her sister. While both girls can get blamed for this event, Sansa tends to get the bulk of fandom hatred for the events that led to the death of Lady. I want to focus on why this viewpoint is wrong.

It’s just that so many of the mentions of the fight at the Trident between Arya and Joffrey, Sansa’s reaction, and the fallout are so often used to make really bad arguments. And, in fact, the whole instance is just misinterpreted a lot.

Usually, the Trident and subsequent hearing is often cited when people want to argue that Sansa Stark hates her sister, or Sansa was weak and stupid, or Sansa was super-duper-evil-selfish-and-wanted-to-throw-her-sister-under-the-bus-just-so-she-could-wear-a-tiara-and-was-willing-to-betray-everyone-to-do-it-and-also-she-is-probably-a-secret-Nazi-and-the-writer-of-High-School-Musical. Sansa has no honor. Sansa cared more about being a princess and impressing her crush than she did about anything. Arya is awesome and Sansa is the worst and here’s why. Sansa utterly betrayed Arya. Sansa was stupid. Sansa should have told the truth and she didn’t so she is the worst.

Okay, so everyone? Sansa may have actually done Arya a huge solid by saying she didn’t remember. It’s likely that her answer of “I don’t know, I don’t remember” was the best thing she could have done for not only her well-being, but Arya’s as well. The person who failed Arya wasn’t Sansa, it was Ned.

No, seriously. Hear me out on this one.

Now, a few things off the bat I want to establish: 1) Joffrey Baratheon was a sadistic little boy who attacked Mycah out of the desire to see him bleed. He got off on the suffering of others and that was his intention all along. 2) Yes, Sansa did often resent and antagonize her sister. I know that Jeyne Poole came up with the “Arya Horseface” name and that we don’t actually see Sansa use it. However, the fact that the name became wide-spread enough for people to remember it, and that Theon would have made the mistake that the name came from Sansa does indicate that she either used it herself or at least gave it enough of a blessing to allow that name to continue. As a huge Sansa fan, I have to say that in my opinion, Sansa’s lowest point as a character was her rant to Arya about how she should marry Hodor because she’s “stupid and ugly.” Sansa bullied Arya. Not all the time (and certainly not to the extent that some people claim), but it did happen. It was wrong and messed up, but it is true. 3) The relationship between the two sisters was seriously strained. 4) Arya was trying to defend her friend and what happened at the Trident was horrible and not her fault. 5) Yes, Sansa blinded herself to Joffrey’s cruelty in AGOT. She blamed Arya for the incident unfairly.

6) Up until the Trident fight, Sansa had no way of knowing Joffrey wasn’t Prince Charming.

7) Arya also had a tendency to antagonize and resent her sister unfairly. Why? Because that’s what siblings DO. Also, she’s a child. Kids can be dicks. Arya is not exempt from this. Because she’s a child. Sansa, being older and more capable of fitting into the social roles of her family, was in a position to do more damage to her sister. However, she was more or less actively encouraged to pick on her sister. Both girls were pitted against each other. Their primary caretaker, Septa Mordane, often made nasty comments about Arya while making rude comparisons to Sansa “Arya has the hands of a blacksmith”, etc. This happened CONSTANTLY. Sansa’s bullying of Arya was reinforced from all sides by their authority figures and the society they lived in. Arya’s resentment of Sansa, therefore, was likewise reinforced. The two fought in almost every interaction we see between them, partly because most of their interactions occur after the Trident. Their memories in later books are kinder. They used each other as outlets for their hurt feelings and acted out at one another. Because they’re children. It’s just that Sansa’s poor treatment of Arya was informed and reinforced by the abusive system they lived in. That is not Sansa’s fault. It doesn’t make what she did RIGHT, but it is the source of a lot of the emotional damage done to both girls and did insure that their relationship reached such an antagonistic level. Arya’s resentment towards her sister was also informed by the system in which they lived. 8) It doesn’t matter what Joffrey’s motives were in attacking Mycah. Not at all. At least, it doesn’t matter when it comes to the outcome or the reaction. Joffrey was always going to get off scot free for what happened. 9) Sansa and Joffrey were betrothed. It was considered a binding arrangement. Marriage was a system of ownership in Westeros. The husband owned his wife (they put it in kinder terms, but let’s not white-wash things here. Women were property. Husbands had legal rights to abuse, rape, command, control, imprison, and in some instances even kill their wives) 10) Joffrey was also the future king, giving him even greater authority over others. The common husband, according to TWOIAF, was allowed to beat his wife with seven strokes of a rod as wide as his thumb. Joffrey, as king, was allowed to order Sansa to be “beaten bloody” and stripped in front of the court. King Aerys Targaryen got away with raping, burning, and abusing his wife, Queen Rhaella. Aegon the Unworthy was allowed to systematically abuse and rape Queen Naerys and took joy in endangering their son (a story Sansa was intimately familiar with). Maegor the Cruel was able to kill multiple wives for not giving him an heir (another story Sansa would have known well). Baelor the Blessed imprisoned his sister-wives (another story Sansa definitely knew) Rhaegar Targaryen was only prince and still was able to abandon his wife for a younger woman and carry off Lyanna Stark. While Rhaegar DID NOT get away with this, it was only because of the huge war and rebellion that took place after. If Robert’s Rebellion hadn’t succeeded, Rhaegar likely would have gotten away with it. When a complaint was lodged against Aerys, the man set Lyanna’s father and brother on fire. Elia Martell and her children, left behind in the Red Keep by her husband, were brutally murdered and neglected more or less. Lyanna Stark died. Another story Sansa would have known VERY WELL. 11) Westeros is a country with a majorly divisive feudal, caste system. Highborn girls like Arya playing around with the sons of butchers was a HUGE breach of custom. The rights and safety of someone like Mycah didn’t matter to those in power. While Winterfell might have been an environment where Arya could have been “underfoot” and played with the children of the cooks and smiths, this was in no way the norm. Girls like her were encouraged and expected to consort with other girls of nobility or some sort of higher social status. For a “butcher’s boy” like Mycah, playing with the daughter of a Lord Paramount and the Hand of the King would have been considered him going above his station. It’s also a place where highborn people constantly get away with abusing and even killing common folk. Furthermore, “respect to one’s betters”, i.e., people of higher social standing, was expected and could be punished to the Nth degree. 12) Westeros is also a society that brainwashes young women to believe that it is their duty to accommodate their husbands at every turn. Ladies obey and please their lords, and to fail or resist is a dereliction of duty. 13) Westeros is also a society that encourages ideas of chivalry, of highborn men saving innocent women and children, often from monsters or evil lords or, on occasion, “common peasants.” 14) Arya was breaking more than one rule when she was playing with Mycah at the Trident. 15) (Controversial opinions time) Ned Stark is a really bad parent and shoulders quite a bit of the blame for what happened. Arya and Sansa are both little girls put in an awful situation. Their father utterly failed to handle it. None of this would have happened if Ned Stark wasn’t impressively negligent. I know people give him a lot of (deserved) crap for how he handled himself in King’s Landing vis a vis Cersei and the court, but I don’t see him called out for this shit enough. He’s no Tywin Lannister, but he still utterly shit the bed as a father to his daughters.

Okay, so with all of that background, let’s talk about that day and the morning after. I’m going to focus on this sequence of events in particular:

1) The events of Sansa I, where Sansa and Arya have an argument, Sansa encounters Ser Illyn and the Hound, spends the day with Joffrey, and the incident at the Trident happens 2) The events of Eddard III, the hearing and execution of Lady.

By the time we get to Sansa I, we know that Arya’s seen Joffrey act like a real dick. The fight with Robb showed her that Joffrey was a petulant brat, something Sansa didn’t witness. The only criticism Sansa’s heard of Joffrey thus far is, “Jon says he looks like a girl” per Arya I. Sansa’s interactions with her future husband so far have indicated that he’s polite. Also according to Arya I, he told Sansa that she was beautiful and gave every impression of being “gallant.”

Sansa’s been trained to be the perfect lady and wife, and to believe in romance, but also to accommodate royalty and men, as is her duty.

It was a great honor to ride with the queen, and besides, Prince Joffrey might be there. Her betrothed. Just thinking it made her feel a strange fluttering inside, even though they were not to marry for years and years. Sansa did not really know Joffrey yet, but she was already in love with him. He was all she ever dreamt her prince should be, tall and handsome and strong, with hair like gold. She treasured every chance to spend time with him, few as they were. —Sansa I, A Game of Thrones

Then there is Arya.

The only thing that scared her about today was Arya. Arya had a way of ruining everything. You never knew what she would do. — Sansa I, A Game of Thrones

Now, granted, this seems kind of a dick thing to say. But the problem is… Sansa is sort of right? In a way? Sort of. As much fun as Arya is, there is a good reason Sansa has to worry about Arya misbehaving and/or embarrassing her. Take this passage of Arya I, for example:

“What are you talking about?” Arya asked suddenly. Jeyne gave her a startled look, then giggled. Sansa looked abashed. Beth blushed. No one answered. “Tell me,” Arya said. Jeyne glanced over to make certain that Septa Mordane was not listening. Myrcella said something then, and the septa laughed along with the rest of the ladies. “We were talking about the prince,” Sansa said, her voice soft as a kiss…… “He’s going to marry her,” little Beth said dreamily, hugging herself. “Then Sansa will be queen of all the realm.” Sansa had the grace to blush. She blushed prettily. She did everything prettily, Arya thought with dull resentment. “Beth, you shouldn’t make up stories,” Sansa corrected the younger girl, gently stroking her hair to take the harshness out of her words. She looked at Arya. “What did you think of Prince Joff, sister? He’s very gallant, don’t you think?” “Jon says he looks like a girl,” Arya said. Sansa sighed as she stitched. “Poor Jon,” she said. “He gets jealous because he’s a bastard.” “He’s our brother,” Arya said, much too loudly. Her voice cut through the afternoon quiet of the tower room. Septa Mordane raised her eyes. She had a bony face, sharp eyes, and a thin lipless mouth made for frowning. It was frowning now. “What are you talking about, children?” “Our half brother,” Sansa corrected, soft and precise. She smiled for the septa. “Arya and I were remarking on how pleased we were to have the princess with us today,” she said. Septa Mordane nodded. “Indeed. A great honor for us all.” Princess Myrcella smiled uncertainly at the compliment. “Arya, why aren’t you at work?” the septa asked. She rose to her feet, starched skirts rustling as she started across the room. “Let me see your stitches.” Arya wanted to scream. It was just like Sansa to go and attract the septa’s attention. “Here,” she said, surrendering up her work. The septa examined the fabric. “Arya, Arya, Arya,” she said. “This will not do. This will not do at all.” Everyone was looking at her. It was too much. Sansa was too well bred to smile at her sister’s disgrace, but Jeyne was smirking on her behalf. Even Princess Myrcella looked sorry for her. Arya felt tears filling her eyes. She pushed herself out of her chair and bolted for the door. —Arya I, A Game of Thrones

I hate to tell you this, guys, but that’s the sort of thing that WOULD give a person a good reason to worry. Arya interrupted a private conversation about Joffrey. She insulted the crown prince in front of his sister. She attracted the attention of Septa Mordane (something she blames Sansa for, which, you know, is wrong. “Her voice cut through the quiet of the tower room” while Sansa had been trying to keep things quiet). Sansa actually covers for her when Mordane comes over and asks what they’re talking about, being courteous and pretending that Arya did the opposite of insult royalty. Then Arya gets reprimanded and she cries and runs from the room. So yes, sorry, Sansa does have a reason to worry about Arya turning things into a fiasco. She of course does it in the most resentful, pre-teen way possible, but her worry isn’t exactly unfounded.

But back to Sansa I.

She found Arya on the banks of the Trident, trying to hold Nymeria still while she brushed dried mud from her fur. The direwolf was not enjoying the process. Arya was wearing the same riding leathers she had worn yesterday and the day before. “You better put on something pretty,” Sansa told her. “Septa Mordane said so. We’re traveling in the queen’s wheelhouse with Princess Myrcella today.” “I’m not,” Arya said, trying to brush a tangle out of Nymeria’s matted grey fur. “Mycah and I are going to ride “upstream and look for rubies at the ford.” “Rubies,” Sansa said, lost. “What rubies?” Arya gave her a look like she was so stupid. “Rhaegar’s rubies. This is where King Robert killed him and won the crown.” Sansa regarded her scrawny little sister in disbelief. “You can’t look for rubies, the princess is expecting us. The queen invited us both.” –Sansa I, A Game of Thrones

Okay, so this isn’t great. The royal family invited both girls to ride with them. And yes, this is, as Sansa says, a great honor. It’s also pretty important for her future. Joffrey is her betrothed, Cersei her future mother-in-law. Making them happy will greatly affect her future. While Sansa’s determination to be “in love” with Joffrey does seem silly to a modern reader, there’s a very good reason for it. The second part of Bluecichlid’s excellent series of metas covered this pretty well. Joffrey is her future: her future monarch and her future owner. Both Cersei and Joffrey are going to be major influences on her for the rest of her life.

It’s better for her psychological well-being to believe that Joffrey is “all she ever dreamt her prince should be.” If not, well, the young man her father sold her to is a bust, and so is the rest of her life. Betrothals were considered VERY binding, marriage even more so. So yes, a lot is riding on Sansa impressing and pleasing the Lannister-Baratheon clan, including the wife of her monarch. Her well-being could very likely be shaped by the impression she gives now.

And then there’s Arya, who wants to snub the honor of Cersei’s invitation, covered in mud, and saying things like this:

“I don’t like the queen,” Arya said casually. Sansa sucked in her breath, shocked that even Arya would say such a thing, but her sister prattled on, heedless. “She won’t even let me bring Nymeria.” She thrust the brush under her belt and stalked her wolf. Nymeria watched her approach warily. “A royal wheelhouse is no place for a wolf,” Sansa said. “And Princess Myrcella is afraid of them, you know that.” “Myrcella is a little baby.” —Sansa I, A Game of Thrones

Remember, her sister also decided to mention aloud that their half-brother said that Joffrey looks like a girl in a room where Joffrey’s sister was sitting. So yes, Sansa’s frustration and fear is pretty warranted. As far as she knows, her entire future could be at least partially determined by the impression she makes on the Lannisters today (it is, as it turns out, just not in the way she expects). She’s an eleven-year-old girl who is looking at a future in a high-profile position as the wife, partner, and property of an extremely powerful person whom she doesn’t know very well. That is a ridiculous amount of pressure for a young girl to be under.

If Arya causes trouble, it isn’t just some brief embarrassment Sansa has to worry about. It’s her entire future and position.

So, keeping that in mind, there’s also this:

One day she came back grinning her horsey grin, her hair all tangled and her clothes covered in mud, clutching a raggedy bunch of purple and green flowers for Father. Sansa kept hoping he would tell Arya to behave herself and act like the highborn lady she was supposed to be, but he never did, he only hugged her and thanked her for the flowers. That just made her worse. Then it turned out the purple flowers were called poison kisses, and Arya got a rash on her arms. Sansa would have thought that might have taught her a lesson, but Arya laughed about it, and the next day she rubbed mud all over her arms like some ignorant bog woman just because her friend Mycah told her it would stop the itching. She had bruises on her arms and shoulders too, dark purple welts and faded green-and-yellow splotches; Sansa had seen them when her sister undressed for sleep. How she had gotten those only the seven gods knew. —- Sansa I, A Game of Thrones

And this:

“You’re not supposed to leave the column,” Sansa reminded her. “Father said so.” Arya shrugged. “I didn’t go far. Anyway, Nymeria was with me the whole time. I don’t always go off, either. Sometimes it’s fun just to ride along with the wagons and talk to people.”” —Sansa I, A Game of Thrones

Okay, so sorry guys, but Sansa’s actually totally right that her father should have told Arya to behave. And then enforced that. Especially after the flower incident. The fact that Ned didn’t take that as a warning and instead just smiled and allowed his daughter to continue breaking rules and direct orders is kind of… Super shitty parenting.

Yes, Arya got some flowers that just gave her a rash. But the next day? It could have been flowers that give her an even bigger rash and an infection that requires a medieval amputation. Arya’s not exactly kept things hygienic in an already bath-phobic society. The fact that Arya was rubbing fucking MUD on her skin inflammation… Yeah…

Of course Arya does this stuff. She’s an energetic kid who likes to have fun. She’s going to want to do these things. She’s got this cool older friend who told her that helps the itching. She prefers hanging out with her exploration buddy. Especially since every time she tries to join the sewing circle like a “proper lady”, she inevitably gets Septa Mordane on her ass insulting her in front of her peers.

But, you see, that’s sort of why Ned has a job to do, one he’s not doing. He’s left his daughters to a caretaker that neglects and emotionally abuses the younger one. And then doesn’t do much to protect his daughter and/or keep her from running around random countryside where she’s already encountered POISON FLOWERS. He doesn’t take the Poison Kisses as an indicator that MAYBE he should at least send a guard with Arya when she goes on these little expeditions.

And no, having her run around with a temperamental direwolf doesn’t count. Neither does having her run around with the kid who told her to rub mud into her rash.

Okay, so Sansa’s got her sister defying orders, bringing home poison flowers, covering herself in mud and bruises, insulting Sansa’s future royal in laws, and announcing plans to snub the queen. The queen. The mother of the future king Sansa is going to marry and, once again, BE LEGALLY OWNED BY.

And for the record, Sansa does try to coax her sister by promising cake and feather pillows and lack of mud-covered poison rashes. That was Arya’s cue to insult the queen.

So, now, completely humiliated, faced with having to tell her future mother in law that “I know that you invited us to come and spend the day with you, but my sister decided to go look for rubies in a lake with a boy that smells like dead meat instead. Have I told you how great an honor it is that you invited us? I can’t wait to join your family.”

Is it any surprise that minutes later, upon meeting Illyn Payne, she has a panic attack?

She heard the queen say, “Joffrey, go to her.” And her prince was there. “Leave her alone,” Joffrey said. He stood over her, beautiful in blue wool and black leather, his golden curls shining in the sun like a crown. He gave her his hand, drew her to her feet. “What is it, sweet lady? Why are you afraid? No one will hurt you. Put away your swords, all of you. The wolf is her little pet, that’s all.” He looked at Sandor Clegane. “And you, dog, away with you, you’re scaring my betrothed.” —Sansa I, A Game of Thrones

Yeah, there’s Joffrey, looking cute and telling people who are scaring her to stop freaking her out.

Then this happens:

“Joffrey, perhaps you would be so kind as to entertain our guest today.” “It would be my pleasure, Mother,” Joffrey said very formally. He took her by the arm and led her away from the wheelhouse, and Sansa’s spirits took flight. A whole day with her prince! —Sansa I, A Game of Thrones

Okay, so Joffrey’s just “saved” her from the freaky executioner dude. And now she has ALSO been spared the prospect of giving her queen the “My sister prefers the company of the boy who smells like dead cow to you” speech. And to top it all off, she actually gets to finally spend time getting to know the king-to-be her father sold her to. She’s going to make a good impression! Exactly what she needs!

““What would you like to do?” Be with you, Sansa thought, but she said, “Whatever you’d like to do, my prince.” Joffrey reflected a moment. “We could go riding.” “Oh, I love riding,” Sansa said.” —Sansa I, A Game of Thrones

This is a lie. Earlier in the chapter, she thinks about how much she hates it. But, also remember points 9, 10, and 12. We also know she’s afraid of making him angry, because earlier in the chapter:

“I can answer,” Sansa said quickly, to quell her prince’s anger.” —Sansa I, A Game of Thrones

“If you like,” she said uncertainly. “I suppose I could tie Lady up.” She did not quite understand, though. “I didn’t know you had a dog …” Joffrey laughed. “He’s my mother’s dog, in truth. She has set him to guard me, and so he does.” “You mean the Hound,” she said. She wanted to hit herself for being so slow. Her prince would never love her if she seemed stupid. “Is it safe to leave him behind?”” — Sansa I, A Game of Thrones

That’s a good question, Sansa. No, strangely enough, it is safe to leave him behind, even though logic dictates that it shouldn’t be. You’d think bringing a guard with the two high-profile, rich children would be the safer option but it’s the Hound, so no, not really. But good on you for having more sense than your father WHO NEVER SEEMS INTERESTED IN SENDING GUARDS WITH HIS CHILDREN. (yeah, there might be a whole other meta on this)

But then there’s this. “Her prince would never love her if she seemed stupid.” Points 9 and 10, guys. It’s super important that her prince love her. Which is also why she keeps drinking when Joffrey tells her to keep drinking. Why she suddenly loves riding. Why she takes his word for it that he’ll protect her.

Then the magical day starts. And what is described is what sounds like several hours of Joffrey charming her petticoats off. He promises to protect her, he gets her food, and he sings to her. He acts like every story she’s been told to believe in her entire life.

Also…

“They dined on trout fresh from the river, and Sansa drank more wine than she had ever drunk before. “My father only lets us have one cup, and only at feasts,” she confessed to her prince. “My betrothed can drink as much as she wants,” Joffrey said, refilling her cup. They went more slowly after they had eaten. Joffrey sang for her as they rode, his voice high and sweet and pure. Sansa was a little dizzy from the wine. ” —Sansa I, A Game of Thrones

Guys, the eleven year old is drunk now. Sansa doesn’t know how to hold her liquor yet. She’s eleven.

“Beyond, in a clearing overlooking the river, they came upon a boy and a girl playing at knights. Their swords were wooden sticks, broom handles from the look of them, and they were rushing across the grass, swinging at each other lustily. The boy was years older, a head taller, and much stronger, and he was pressing the attack. The girl, a scrawny thing in soiled leathers, was dodging and managing to get her stick in the way of most of the boy’s blows, but not all. When she tried to lunge at him, he caught her stick with his own, swept it aside, and slid his wood down hard on her fingers. She cried out and lost her weapon. Prince Joffrey laughed. The boy looked around, wide-eyed and startled, and dropped his stick in the grass. The girl glared at them, sucking on her knuckles to take the sting out, and Sansa was horrified. “Arya?” she called out incredulously. “Go away,” Arya shouted back at them, angry tears in her eyes. “What are you doing here? Leave us alone.” Joffrey glanced from Arya to Sansa and back again. “Your sister?”” —Sansa I, A Game of Thrones

So here is the scene they’ve come upon: A girl and a much older boy are hitting each other with sticks. The much older boy is winning and hits her so hard she drops her weapon. And Joffrey knows that the girl is highborn. And Mycah, who is a good three or four years older than Arya, is the butcher’s boy.

Points 11 and 13 come into play now. Which is why Joffrey does this:

““And you’re only a butcher’s boy, and no knight.” Joffrey lifted Lion’s Tooth and laid its point on Mycah’s cheek below the eye, as the butcher’s boy stood trembling. “That was my lady’s sister you were hitting, do you know that?”” — Sansa I, A Game of Thrones

Points 1, 8, and 13 guys.

Highborn girls were expected to obey and not take up swords. For Mycah, the son of a butcher, to play with a girl as highborn as Arya was a HUGE breach of conduct. That he was hitting her with a stick didn’t help. Nor does it help that Arya’s been spending her days with him and coming home with bruises everywhere for weeks now.

Joffrey wanted to hurt Mycah for fun. He doesn’t give a shit about Arya, and he finds the situation hilarious. He’s a sadist. The problem is: it doesn’t matter. Because he’s the prince, because Mycah is lowborn, because Arya is much younger than Mycah and a lady, because princes like Joffrey are supposed to be chivalrous and protect ladies from harm, because Joffrey’s got a powerful family, because a lowborn boy hitting a little lady is a HUGE taboo. It doesn’t matter why Joffrey does it.

All Joffrey has to say is this: “He was hitting my lady’s sister.”

And boom. Excuse for him to attack an unarmed, innocent boy in the eyes of Westeros law. Joffrey, as prince, is allowed to hurt boys like Mycah, especially when boys like Mycah were hitting his lady’s sister. He was being “chivalrous.” He was maintaining the status quo.

He was definitely doing the latter, at least.

“Arya went for him. Sansa slid off her mare, but she was too slow. Arya swung with both hands. There was a loud crack as the wood split against the back of the prince’s head, and then everything happened at once before Sansa’s horrified eyes. Joffrey staggered and whirled around, roaring curses. Mycah ran for the trees as fast as his legs would take him. Arya swung at the prince again, but this time Joffrey caught the blow on Lion’s Tooth and sent her broken stick flying from her hands. The back of his head was all bloody and his eyes were on fire. Sansa was shrieking, “No, no, stop it, stop it, both of you, you’re spoiling it,” but no one was listening. Arya scooped up a rock and hurled it at Joffrey’s head. She hit his horse instead, and the blood bay reared and went galloping off after Mycah. “Stop it, don’t, stop it!” Sansa screamed. Joffrey slashed at Arya with his sword, screaming obscenities, terrible words, filthy words. Arya darted back, frightened now, but Joffrey followed, hounding her toward the woods, backing her up against a tree. Sansa didn’t know what to do. She watched helplessly, almost blind from her tears.” — Sansa I, A Game of Thrones

Okay, so Joffrey is bleeding and attacking Arya, Sansa’s freaked out and calling for them to stop, and Arya has attacked Joffrey and is afraid. Sansa has gotten her first glimpse of Joffrey’s cruelty and feels helpless. In comes Nymeria. She bites Joffrey. Arya calls her off and brandishes a sword at Joffrey, Joffrey threatens to tell his mother, and Arya bolts when Sansa bids her to leave Joffrey alone (good advice).

“Joffrey,” she sobbed. “Oh, look what they did, look what they did. My poor prince. Don’t be afraid. I’ll ride to the holdfast and bring help for you.” Tenderly she reached out and brushed back his soft blond hair. His eyes snapped open and looked at her, and there was nothing but loathing there, nothing but the vilest contempt. “Then go,” he spit at her. “And don’t touch me.”” —-Sansa I, A Game of Thrones

Sansa is totally screwed at this point. There’s no going back. She doesn’t know this, but she’s aware that this is a huge problem. Even as she is trying to help him, he’s looking at her with hatred. Even though she’s not done anything. Joffrey is the type of boy who attacks little girls. Joffrey is looking at her with the vilest contempt. And Joffrey is the boy she is tied to for the rest of her life. The boy her father has betrothed her to.

Okay, so let’s move on to Ned III. They’ve found Arya, and she’s brought before the king after a night of being lost. She’s crying and sorry and freaking the fuck out because she’s a nine year old who was attacked by the prince, spent a night in the wilderness, and has now been dragged before the entire court like a criminal.

“Why was I not told that my daughter had been found?” Ned demanded, his voice ringing. “Why was she not brought to me at once?” —Eddard III, A Game of Thrones

Arya should have never been allowed to leave the progress unguarded in the first place.

She felt so tiny in his arms, nothing but a scrawny little girl. It was hard to see how she had caused so much trouble. “Are you hurt?”” — Eddard III, A Game of Thrones

Oh, I don’t know, maybe she’s an energetic kid left completely unattended in the wilderness and has a wolf for a pet? Maybe that’s how she caused all this trouble. (Actually, she didn’t and you know that. But whatever, look at the little girl who you know was defending her friend from the nasty, armed prince and view HER as the source of the trouble). Maybe the wolf you brought home and the guards you didn’t give her might have had something to do with the trouble. Even if you wanted to indulge her and let her go running with her friend, SEND SOME FUCKING GUARDS. THIS SHOULD HAVE BEEN OBVIOUS. POINT 15.

Now the actual trial part:

“The queen stepped forward. “You know full well, Stark. This girl of yours attacked my son. Her and her butcher’s boy. That animal of hers tried to tear his arm off.” “That’s not true,” Arya said loudly. “She just bit him a little. He was hurting Mycah.” “Joff told us what happened,” the queen said. “You and the butcher boy beat him with clubs while you set your wolf on him.” “That’s not how it was,” Arya said, close to tears again. Ned put a hand on her shoulder. “Yes it is!” Prince Joffrey insisted. “They all attacked me, and she threw Lion’s Tooth in the river!” Ned noticed that he did not so much as glance at Arya as he spoke. “Liar!” Arya yelled.” — Eddard III, A Game of Thrones

Okay, first of all, this is a farce: It doesn’t matter what the truth is.

Second of all: A surprising amount of what Joffrey and Cersei said were lies. Mycah didn’t hurt Joffrey, and he and Arya didn’t beat Joffrey with clubs, and Nymeria attacked him without Arya’s bidding. But it is true that Nymeria kind of tried to tear his arm off (good puppy) and you and Nymeria did attack him, and you did throw Lion’s Tooth in the river.

And unfortunately, that’s all that’s going to matter. Because you live in a awful, unfair world, Arya.

Seriously, one of the saddest parts of this whole thing was “He was hurting Mycah.”

Why? Because it doesn’t matter to anyone but Arya and the readers. Arya, it doesn’t matter that he was hurting Mycah. It doesn’t matter to the king, the queen, and his court. That would never affect the outcome of any of this. Joffrey is (supposed to be) the son of the king. Mycah is the son of a butcher. 8, 10, 11.

All Joffrey has to say is that Mycah was hitting you with a stick. That is true. If anyone with power over the situation might have cared, your game with Mycah would put an end to that. It won’t matter that you were just playing. You’re not supposed to play with fake swords, you’re a girl. You’re not supposed to play with the butcher’s boy, you’re noble. According to the standards of class and chivalry, Joffrey was intervening in a wholly inappropriate situation and punishing the lowborn boy attacking the highborn girl.

You should have known this. But your parents kind of suck at preparing themselves and their children for the world around them. So yeah. Mycah is getting his throat slit by the Hound for attacking the prince as you passionately testify that Joffrey was hurting him. I’m sorry. You’re a little girl who lives in a world where everything is terrible.

Okay, so then both Arya and Joffrey tell their version of what happened.

And then Ned decides to make another really awful parenting decision.

““They were not the only ones present,” Ned said. “Sansa, come here.” Ned had heard her version of the story the night Arya had vanished. He knew the truth. “Tell us what happened.”” — Eddard III, A Game of Thrones

Eddard Stark, YOU agreed to have your eleven-year-old daughter tied to this family. You had her swear an oath to marry Joffrey. You signed a contract. You did it so that the Lannisters would not question your loyalty as you investigated them for the murder of Jon Arryn. You are heading to King’s Landing to find evidence and bring the most powerful family in the country up on charges. The same family you have tied Sansa to in a legally binding sense. Sansa, the daughter who has been raised from birth to follow custom, be a perfect lady, and obey. The daughter who is tied to the boy you now know to have attacked your other daughter. The daughter whose future in laws you suspect of murder and treason. The daughter who has no idea WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON.

An hour ago, you were terrified that the Lannisters were going to hurt or kill Arya. You believe that the queen is responsible for Jon Arryn’s death. You know that she sent THE HOUND and her brother THE KINGSLAYER after your nine-year-old daughter.

So you’re asking eleven-year-old Sansa to go before her future husband and his murderous, traitor mother and call the prince a lying brute who attacks children. The same prince you’ve legally tied her to.

Both Joffrey and Cersei have attacked and/or tried to attack your children with lethal force. You KNOW this. Sansa is supposed to marry Joffrey, an arrangement you agreed to. And now you expect her to go up against them in a court of law.

“His eldest daughter stepped forward hesitantly. She was dressed in blue velvets trimmed with white, a silver chain around her neck. Her thick auburn hair had been brushed until it shone. She blinked at her sister, then at the young prince. “I don’t know,” she said tearfully, looking as though she wanted to bolt. “I don’t remember. Everything happened so fast, I didn’t see …” “You rotten!” Arya shrieked. She flew at her sister like an arrow, knocking Sansa down to the ground, pummeling her. “Liar, liar, liar, liar.” “Arya, stop it!” Ned shouted. Jory pulled her off her sister, kicking. Sansa was pale and shaking as Ned lifted her back to her feet. “Are you hurt?” he asked, but she was staring at Arya, and she did not seem to hear.” — Eddard III, A Game of Thrones

Sansa’s entire future might have depended on this moment if not for the fact that the Lannisters are insane. In a somewhat sane, logical world, where fathers don’t betroth their daughters to the sons of suspected murderers, what Sansa did in this passage might have saved her and her sister.

If she had backed up Arya’s story, it would not have helped the situation. The closest thing to consequences that might have come about for Joffrey would be for attacking Arya.  And even then, an argument might be made for self-defense. It wouldn’t be a valid one, but it would win out because Joffrey is heir to the throne.

Joffrey might have been punished somewhat. Not severely, though, if Cersei has a say (and she does). Joffrey would still be heir to the throne. Someday, he’d be king. And he’d be very, very angry with both Stark sisters.

She’s seen Joffrey attack her sister once. Someday he might do it with a crown on his head and absolute authority. As far as Sansa knows, she’s still going to marry him.

We know she told Ned what happened earlier. The fact that her father didn’t decide right then and there that the betrothal would end speaks volumes. Her father didn’t make that decision. But he has made the decision to drag her up in front of her future husband and have her call him a lying psychopath.

If Joffrey doesn’t hate Sansa, if she finds a way to rectify the vile contempt she saw on his face, she’s potentially not the only person who is safer.

Yeah, Arya is safer if Joffrey likes Sansa as well. Everyone is. This won’t happen, but Sansa doesn’t know that.  

In a drunken haze, partially blinded by tears, Sansa saw Joffrey attack her sister. Before that, Joffrey had been charming. Sansa’s approach to her relationship with him even before this happened was to “quell her prince’s anger.” She’s always intended to be a tempering influence on him. That becomes much harder if he hates her.

However, if she agrees with Joffrey’s story, she’s selling out her sister and possibly subjecting her to a cruel punishment. It’s a capital offense to attack the prince. Even though Arya, due to her birth and age, wouldn’t be executed or tortured or something, it likely that this incident would ruin her life and lead to some severe violence for her down the road. Years from now, she’d have a king who hates her and the mark of being a criminal to make her even more vulnerable.

So, Sansa gives a non-committal answer.

She’s already told her father the story. He didn’t pull the plug on the betrothal even though he believes her. He didn’t use her honesty to protect her. He used it to fling her out in front of the most powerful family in the country and endanger her entire future. The future HE set her up for in the first place.

The thing is, it doesn’t matter if Sansa backed her sister up for another reason:

“Their only good fortune was that both Jaime Lannister and Sandor Clegane were missing, leading searches north of the Trident.” —- Eddard III, A Game of Thrones

It had already been decided that the Starks would suffer for this, regardless of who was at fault. The king allowed his wife to send her brother the Kingslayer and The Hound out after a nine-year-old. Justice for Arya and Mycah was never in the cards.

And then the wolves.

That was when Sansa finally seemed to comprehend. Her eyes were frightened as they went to her father. “He doesn’t mean Lady, does he?” She saw the truth on his face. “No,” she said. “No, not Lady, Lady didn’t bite anybody, she’s good …” “Lady wasn’t there,” Arya shouted angrily. “You leave her alone!” “Stop them,” Sansa pleaded, “don’t let them do it, please, please, it wasn’t Lady, it was Nymeria, Arya did it, you can’t, it wasn’t Lady, don’t let them hurt Lady, I’ll make her be good, I promise, I promise …” She started to cry. All Ned could do was take her in his arms and hold her while she wept. He looked across the room at Robert. His old friend, closer than any brother. “Please, Robert. For the love you bear me. For the love you bore my sister. Please.” The king looked at them for a long moment, then turned his eyes on his wife. “Damn you, Cersei,” he said with loathing. Ned stood, gently disengaging himself from Sansa’s grasp. — Eddard III, A Game of Thrones

As much as I want to completely blame Cersei and Robert and Joffrey for Lady’s death, I can’t.

Really, Ned? THAT is the extent of your protests? Sansa did absolutely nothing wrong. You are Hand of the King. Offer to send Lady back to Winterfell (and send your daughters back too, FFS).

Or better yet, offer to do it yourself and then sneak Lady out of there!

“Shortly, Jory brought him Ice. When it was over, he said, “Choose four men and have them take the body north. Bury her at Winterfell.” “All that way?” Jory said, astonished. “All that way,” Ned affirmed. “The Lannister woman shall never have this skin.” —- Eddard III, A Game of Thrones

NED YOU SUCK ALL THE DICK.

You’re denying Cersei the pelt. You feel confident enough to deny the crown proof that Lady is dead. You want to send her back to Winterfell. You do.

Lady SHOULD have been sent back to Winterfell, but not to be buried. The fact that she is? Yeah, NED’S FUCK UP. AN UNNECESSARY ONE.

And then this:

“No sign of your daughter, Hand,” the Hound rasped down, “but the day was not wholly wasted. We got her little pet.” He reached back and shoved the burden off, and it fell with a thump in front of Ned. Bending, Ned pulled back the cloak, dreading the words he would have to find for Arya, but it was not Nymeria after all. It was the butcher’s boy, Mycah, his body covered in dried blood. He had been cut almost in half from shoulder to waist by some terrible blow struck from above. — Eddard III, A Game of Thrones

Remember what I said about justice never being in the cards? Here is your proof. The Hound didn’t even know they’d already found Arya. But he slaughtered Mycah. This was an inevitability, just as Joffrey getting away with what happened was. No matter what Sansa said.

Even if she backed Arya up. Even if Joffrey was punished and judged the sole aggressor. Mycah would still be dead. Joffrey would still be heir to the throne and angry at both Stark girls. And Sansa would never have a chance of “quelling her prince’s anger.”

A lot of people hate Sansa based on this and the fact that she blamed Arya for the incident later. That she didn’t see what Joffrey was then. That she trusted Cersei.

As Bluecichlid says in her meta, confronting the reality of the situation would cause a huge psychological break for Sansa.

Sansa has a history of rewriting events in her head to cope. The most famous example would be the Unkiss, where she remembers the Hound kissing her during the battle of Blackwater. He didn’t. He snuck into her room, put a knife to her throat, forced her onto the bed, and threatened to kill her. But she rewrites it in her head as a kiss.

She does the same thing with the Trident. In her subsequent chapters, she looks back on the event internally blaming Arya. It’s not just something she says, but something she thinks. She believes her sister, who had a habit of insulting the royal family and misbehaving, who literally attacked her in front of the entire court, attacked the prince with Mycah. She remembers again when she can no longer deny what Joffrey is, but consciously, throughout the rest of A Game of Thrones, she believes her sister is responsible.

George R.R. Martin has gone on record saying that the loss of Lady has had a serious impact on Sansa’s mental state. It’s not entirely surprising—all the Stark children, according to Martin, are wargs, and they come into their powers through their bonds with their direwolves. We see it with all of Sansa’s siblings. Even Rickon and Bran, who are far younger than her, enter their wolves’ minds. Arya possesses Nymeria even after they are parted and can possess the minds of other animals at will. Meanwhile, Sansa’s power hasn’t developed at all. This natural ability has been cut off and stunted.

During the fight, it’s mentioned that Sansa is “blinded by tears”. And soon after, she is robbed of her ability to ever see through the eyes of her wolf, who is a core part of her being. Despite the fact that Sansa didn’t do anything wrong, she, like Mycah, was punished. And she is still legally tied to a cruel boy. So yes, she alters her conscious memories and refuses to confront the truth. She stays blind in order to keep some semblance of her sanity and hope for her future.

Neither girl was responsible for what happened. Both of them were neglected and put in an extremely dangerous situation. Sansa, who lost her wolf, processes this internally, in an unhealthy manner to cope with the tragedy. Arya, who didn’t lose her wolf, does remember what happened. She “hates” her sister as much as Sansa “hates” her (they’re super, super pissed at each other with the sort of anger one can only feel towards family and congressmen). They both unfairly blame one another for things that are not their fault. The difference is, Arya didn’t have a piece of her soul killed by her father. So she deals with things like a normal little girl. Sansa, who lost Lady and is still looking at an impossible future, does not.

#Arya Stark #Sansa Stark #Eddard Stark #Joffrey Baratheon #asoiaf meta #asoiaf #long post

[turtle-paced]

GoT Re-Watch: Fine-Toothed Comb Edition

Sorry for the delay - Easter, exams, that sort of thing. But here we are at the start of season six, isn’t that exciting?

6.01 - The Red Woman

(2:11) It’s a lovely opening shot of the Wall and Castle Black, at least.

(2:57) Anyone know why Sam’s dog cares so much about Jon? The showrunners just haven’t done the work to show the direwolves are magically significant.

(4:41) Yes, Jon is dead. This scene is moving at a glacial pace. I mean, you should dedicate time to allow the viewer to process a major character’s death, but we’re getting almost as much time to show Davos and Dolorous Edd reacting to Jon Snow’s death as we saw Sansa react to the deaths of Robb and Catelyn.

Get used to comments about the scene moving slowly. I spent most of season six hollering “GET ON WITH IT” at my laptop. The pacing in this season is absolutely shot to hell, and it’s not because they didn’t have enough plot or potential plot. They absolutely did. But once again that plot was compressed to maintain “shocks” and big end-of-season events, leaving the characters to make small talk for multiple episodes.

(5:02) Edd trusts the men in this room, who we’ve never seen before. It’s like they’re placeholding for other characters, characters who may have been shortsightedly killed off earlier…

(6:20) It took us about four minutes to inform three characters of Jon Snow’s death. Nothing else. Just establishing he’s dead. Glacial.

(7:20) “But I never once disobeyed an order.” This line is, I think, supposed to tell the audience that Thorne is loyal to the Watch and killed Jon out of what he saw as necessity; the telling-not-showing thing leaves me with the impression that Thorne is going for the most facile loophole imaginable, “well he never told me not to kill him.”

(7:40) Then we end up with tense problems. No, not that sort of tense. “Jon Snow was going to destroy the Night’s Watch.” How? By letting the Free Folk through the Wall - oh. Shit. A bit late, huh? The lack of the Pink Letter has led to this problem: if letting the Free Folk through the Wall alone was enough to kill Jon over, it was enough to shut him up on the wrong side of the Wall for. Instead, the mutineers let Jon and all the Free Folk through, then killed Jon, which fixes nothing and causes even more problems.

(8:08) More tense problems. “What he thought was right would have been the end of us.” Okay, smartypants, but the Free Folk are still through the Wall. Your problems still exist in the present. Just because the writers know this plot is effectively over for the season doesn’t mean the character should.

(8:56) Davos is clearly at a bit of a plot loose end, with Stannis dead. His motivations aren’t completely clear - while he liked Jon, and I can understand that he’d prefer to work with Jon over the mutineers, I’m not sure what he thinks he’s accomplishing.

(9:40) Oh wonderful. This scene. Timer on!

(9:48) “The kennelmaster’s daughter. She smelled of dog.” Profound.

(10:05) Okay, stop, because this is bullshit. Myranda was absolutely afraid of Ramsay, as we saw back in season five, and it’s really damaging for the show to say she wasn’t after the fact and leave it as the last word.

(10:40) I still don’t know whether this is Ramsay hamming it up or being genuinely sad. One’s a waste of time and the other’s offensively privileging the abuser’s perspective of his victim without chance for rebuttal.

(10:50) And timer off! That was a minute and ten seconds of Ramsay mourning for Myranda, for the same plot and character effect as we could have got if Ramsay just shrugged off her death entirely in two lines.

(11:20) Poor Roose. He got stuck with the recap. Ramsay defeated Stannis, Ramsay married Sansa yes yes we watched season five, more fool us. Not to mention his only plot function is to nag Ramsay ineffectually.

(11:45) “[The North] won’t back us without Sansa Stark.” And yet we will see just as many Northern lords back the Boltons as the Starks, and twice as many sit the fight out entirely.

(13:01) I wrote it back when I first saw this episode: this river is here so the writers could include an exchange with Sansa wanting to give up and Theon spurring her into greater courage. Even now Theon’s telling her just how bad Ramsay is and she really needs to believe him - I think she knows already. This wouldn’t be so bad in isolation, but it doesn’t stand in isolation. It’s not even an isolated event in this episode. There is a consistent pattern of the writers writing Sansa as weak so that others (usually male characters) can show their strength.

(14:08) But the hug is very nice, especially as the panning out to show both of them together conveys that the comfort received is mutual.

(15:03) I swear, nothing a Stark or Stark-adjacent character does is allowed to succeed. Theon says Sansa’s dead, not an unreasonable proposition given the fall plus the run through the frozen landscape plus the river, and immediately this guy says “liar.”

Incidentally, imagine if this guy had been all like “dead? We better go look for her body!” “But sir, the footprints -“ “I said, we had better go look for her body! We will be searching in that direction over there. It will take us hours. A shame nobody’s looking at the road north right now.” Same plot outcome, but conveys that disloyalty is something the Boltons are having problems with.

(15:50) Deaths: 1. Brienne’s kill.

(16:21) After a brief exchange of blows that shows how the choreography has gone downhill (a hit to the sword made Brienne spin away dramatically at one point), deaths: 2. Brienne’s kill again.

(16:42) Deaths: 3. Pod’s kill.

(17:01) Deaths: 4. Brienne’s kill. Another injured man, who says “no, please” before Brienne cuts his throat with what can only be described as an expression of savage glee.

(17:13) Deaths: 5. Theon’s kill.

Hey, you know who hasn’t done anything in this scene? Sansa. I am so reminded of the hill clan attack back in season one, where Catelyn just tucked herself up next to a boulder and didn’t get in the way of any of the fighting…in spite of picking up a knife and killing a man herself in the book. Sansa has not done so much as shout “behind you!” or something like that.

(17:32) And now’s the time to talk about Brienne’s appearance. Last season she had to choose - kill Stannis or save Sansa. Here at the beginning of the season we see that that choice has zero consequences. Brienne gets to do both. There isn’t even a cost to her relationship with Sansa. It completely undermines that moment of choice. What is even the point of writing that choice if it doesn’t make a difference?

(18:03) Not to mention the choice Brienne made undermines her sincerity in this offer. Brienne will do anything for Sansa, anything, I say, there is no knight more dedicated to a lady - oh wait hang on a tic personal vendetta over there just gotta pop out in this crisis situation for a bit of revenge murder.

(18:10) Theon nods his approval of Sansa accepting Brienne’s vows. Which one of them has met Brienne before, again?

(18:28) Goddamn it. This starts off so promisingly, with Sansa gathering herself to accept Brienne’s vows formally, but then she freezes up and needs Pod to prompt her. This instance is especially bad, as Sansa remembering her manners in trying situations is her jam. Nobody expects Sansa to be perfectly put together through all this - but we’ve already had two instances in this episode alone (the river, the fight) of Sansa needing the help of others. At this third point, it’s time for Sansa to demonstrate her own strengths.

(19:27) It’s good that our first sight of Cersei involves her fiddling with with her much shorter hair. It shows us that the haircut meant something to her.

(19:46) What’s odd is that Cersei is completely alone. She’s still being accused of things like murder and treason, but she is completely unattended by anyone. Which could be an oversight, but as we’ll see later, Margaery (accused of perjury), is constantly shadowed by a septa.

(20:02) We have multiple shots of Cersei traversing the castle to go greet her daughter. Padding! How would we understand that Cersei walked through the castle to greet the boat if we did not see her walking through several other rooms first?

(20:16) Myrcella’s shroud is indeed gold.

(21:29) This discussion of bloated Lannister corpses has got to be some sort of reference to the putrefaction of Tywin’s corpse on his bier…but it’s not the fact that Tywin’s body succumbed to biology and decayed, it’s that it did so while lying in state. It’s the same thing as Tywin’s magnificent white charger taking a dump in front of the Iron Throne after the Blackwater.

(22:01) Show!Cersei continues to be a far better parent than book!Cersei, able to recognise that her daughter was a separate person whose desires did not necessarily align with her own, and able to value those differences.

(22:16) While I’m comparing writing to Catelyn’s scripting, this bit from Cersei, “she was nothing like me, no meanness, no jealousy, just good” reminds me of Catelyn’s monologue in 3.02 reminding everyone that she’s a horrible, horrible person.

(22:42) Reminding the audience that Cersei is motivated by a prophecy. A prophecy that she will have three children, all of whom will predecease Cersei. The fact that show!Cersei has had four children aside, she also says to Jaime, “you couldn’t have stopped it,” which kind of undoes the whole point of making Cersei driven by that prophecy. Everything she does, she does precisely so she can stop it coming true.

(23:10) “Fuck everyone who isn’t us.” Jaime Lannister’s lack of character development in five words.

(24:00) The way Margaery’s voice breaks over her demand to see her brother - Natalie Dormer is way too good for this nonsense storyline.

(24:36) So’s Jonathan Pryce, walking in with a perfectly executed good cop act. At least, Jonathan Pryce’s acting is perfectly consistent with a good cop routine, in a context where a good cop routine makes an awful lot of sense. The High Sparrow may be sincere in everything he says…

(25:01) …but he’s saying the exact same thing as the “overzealous” Septa Unella, just in a gentler tone. Like with Melisandre, this doesn’t look like religious sincerity, this looks like a trick.

(25:34) In addition to this, the scene accomplished nothing. Nobody has changed their minds about anything. Nothing new has occurred. A minute and a half of episode wasted.

(25:53) Doran’s reminiscing about a dead relative he loved very much. He’s toast.

(26:48) Deaths: 6. Tyene instakills Areo Hotah. Must’ve been a critical hit.

(26:56) Deaths: 7. Tyene kills the maester.

(27:10) Ellaria here gives us a motive rant. She references Elia and Oberyn. She says Doran’s people are disgusted with him, as the guards watch impassively.

(27:43) “Weak men will never rule Dorne again.” Deaths: 8. Doran, killed by Ellaria.

What the fuck happened there? Last season, Doran was a clear good guy in this storyline, behaving reasonably and rationally against the super-obviously-evil Sand Snakes who wanted nothing more than to murder an innocent girl, and he had sufficient support of his guards to arrest the malefactors when they acted. This season, Doran’s a weak man who doesn’t deserve to rule, Ellaria and the Sand Snakes are representatives of girl power even though they haven’t changed their position on revenge murders, and the Dornish guards apparently don’t care about anything beyond murdering weak men.

In itself, this really plays like the villains triumphing. Ellaria gets away with murder and commits another, goes on a fucking motive rant, and disparages someone trying to stop a destructive and futile war against massive internal opposition as “weak.” Obviously bad, right? Right. And yet we get to the end of the season and apparently this is a positive step for the Dornish?

(28:03) Trystane is still on the ship. Obara and Nymeria apparate on board undetected, having caught up with this ship somehow. Okay then.

(28:13) Ah, cousin murder, so empowering. Nobody really cares about kinslaying in Westeros.

(28:42) Deaths: 9. Trystane, killed by Obara.

(28:51) Woman called “bitch”: 1. A wonderful and positive example of women interacting, completely necessary to wind up the scene.

(29:05) “We’re never going to fix what’s wrong with this city from the top of an 800-foot pyramid.” Gosh, if only Dany was more a woman of the people. That’s her problem, her rule doesn’t take the lower classes into account enough. (Back in “Hardhome”, Dany’s problem is that she’s ruling without the rich.)

(29:30) Varys is a eunuch: 1. It took just over thirty seconds to get to that “joke”.

(30:07) This bit where Tyrion gives a coin to a starving woman so she can feed her baby…I’m going to quote from the excellent How Not To Write A Novel, because it pretty well encapsulates my feelings about this bit. 

“Perfect people are boring. Perfect people are obnoxious because they are better than us. Perfect people are, above all, too good to be true. […] An unprincipled gold digger who gives twenty dollars to a beggar is enchanting. A crusading human rights lawyer who volunteers at an animal shelter and also pauses on his way to court to give twenty dollars to a beggar makes us gag.”

The narrative’s lost sight of Tyrion’s interiority. The problems he faces are external, not requiring him to change or compromise, not based around his flaws. He already knows the best thing to do - the problem is doing it. But that means that show!Tyrion is now a flat, static character.

(30:35) Abs & pecs: 1.

(30:53) We see here that the Red Priests are preaching in favour of Dany, as is consistent with the anti-slavery stance they had back in season five. Note also the over-explaining of the effect Dany’s removal of slavery has on politics here. I’ll get back to this next episode, where certain things are under-explained.

(31:10) Abs & pecs: 5.

(31:13) So this sermon here is framed as being the Red Priests preaching that Dany has abandoned the former slaves of Meereen. Yet this speech contains lines such as “the people who love the darkness chased [Dany] away” and “will you fight for your own salvation, now that Queen Daenerys is not here to fight for you?” They’re not preaching of Dany’s abandonment, they’re depicting her as a champion of the former slaves driven out by the true enemy and in need of their activism while she’s gone. This Red Priest asks “will you take up her flames yourselves?” This is an unambiguously pro-Dany message, emphasising continuity between Dany’s cause and the current needs of the former slaves, rather than rejecting Dany as too timid and beholden to the Masters. I prefer to think that Tyrion’s established-to-be-crappy Valyrian is getting in the way, because otherwise he’s really bad at interpreting the messaging here.

(31:37) Oh, that’s Dany’s other problem. “You can’t fight an enemy you don’t know.” Man, if only Dany had thought of finding out who the Sons of the Harpy were. Truly, Tyrion is bringing exceptional insight into this situation.

This show is very clearly only as smart as the writers.

(32:12) Abs & pecs: 6.

(32:33) The burning of the ships (in a nice shot, incidentally) was the only new thing to happen in this scene, and it doesn’t have time to breathe. It’s all well and good to re-establish the situation at the beginning of the season, but we had three minutes checking in with the state of Meereen’s economy, and thirty seconds of a major attack on Dany’s future interests. These proportions seem to me backwards.

(32:48) Meanwhile, in the extremely Irish Dothraki Sea…

(33:33) “You keep coming back. Why?” “You know why.” Ooh, ooh, so do I! It’s because Jorah’s a stalker who cares not a whit about Dany’s repeatedly stated desire not to have him anywhere near her! It’s not a romantic tale of unrequited love but a depressingly common romanticisation of behaviour that’s genuinely dangerous!

(33:45) Daario here explicitly mentions that Dany doesn’t want Jorah the way he wants her (a formulation Jorah accepts), and then calls Jorah’s actions romantic. There’s no subversion. No questioning. The show thinks that Jorah’s disregard for “go away, I don’t want to see you again” is romantic.

(35:10) So these master trackers found a ram that was very clearly killed by a dragon and obvious tracks from a Dothraki horde, and yet it takes that fucking breadcrumbed ring for them to conclude “Daenerys was here, the Dothraki must have taken her.” This is not the LotR movie’s “not idly do the leaves of Lorien fall” (not familiar enough with the books and don’t have the time to reread them right now sorry) - in that story, the pursuers were already on the trail, already aware of who the kidnappers were, and the discovered pin was more proof of life than anything else (“not idly do the leaves of Lorien fall” = “that didn’t drop off a Hobbit corpse, that had to be torn off by someone”).

(35:50) Abs & pecs: 7.

(36:24) Plot-critical speculation about whether the carpet matches the drapes, brought to you by Game of Thrones. Just kidding. It’s not plot-critical at all.

(36:55) So that was thirty seconds of dialogue devoted to two unnamed minor characters dicussing how they’d like to rape Dany. Good use of time, writers!

(37:16) Once again we return to shots of butchered meat in the open air as an indication that these people are primitive and uncivilised. Guess what? Food preservation tech back in King’s Landing isn’t great either - but we sure don’t get the shots saying “look how backwards these people are!”

(37:23) Abs & pecs: 8.

(37:48) Abs & pecs: 9.

(37:55) The women, naturally, are immediately jealous of and threatened by Dany. Of course. That’s what women are like, in Game of Thrones.

(38:41) Then we get this wonderful comedy routine about how stripping Dany against her will would be among the five finest things in life.

(39:23) Look, I know that Dany’s seemingly constant appeal to her own titles back in season two was comical, but she was set down for it back in season two. What’s she supposed to do here, not give her name and as many titles as she can heap on, when the alternative is (as has been so clearly articulated) rape?

(40:19) Here’s the better way of showing how grossly misogynistic Dothraki society is, without solid minutes of rape threats - Khal Moro only backs down when Dany says she’s Khal Drogo’s widow. That gets the message across. We could have saved minutes of rape threats.

(41:14) But there’s the plot progression, after six minutes of Dany listening to sexual threats. She’s being taken to Isengard Vaes Dothrak. Six minutes. Alternatively, we could have cut to the chase and shown Dany arriving at Vaes Dothrak. The pacing this season…

(41:22-41:43) We need twenty seconds of following this guy’s shopping trip to understand that this is a street full of beggars, and, gasp! Arya is one of them. You can tell the imagination is running dry, you really can. Earlier seasons would have done this in literally half the time.

(42:16) I do like the out-of-focus background and the very focused street noise, including how we hear the Waif before we see her on screen. That gets across Arya’s internal experiece of blindness nicely for a visual medium.

(42:42) However, I do not understand why this stick-hitting is taking place on the streets, in public. Seems a bit overt for a bunch of covert assassins. Not to mention that once again the Faceless Men can’t teach for crap. Pummeling students is bad teaching, and by all logic will most likely result in a student with broken bones, a deep resentment of their teacher, and an only marginally increased ability to fight with sticks once the broken bones heal.

(43:01) That was two hits to the face, with a staff. God but I hate hate hate what the showrunners are saying about education with this storyline. This is not toughening Arya up. This is beating her up. But it’s all worth it in the end since she becomes a badass assassin!

Did the writers understand what was going on with Alliser Thorne, Jon Snow, and the conflict over training in book one? Randyll Tarly’s attempts to make Sam a knight? I rather think they didn’t.

(43:13) Two more hits to the head with a staff, and a couple of nasty body blows as well. Maybe we can count Arya’s lack of severe injury here as foreshadowing for how she survives that gut wound later.

(43:23) Meanwhile, the other beggars on the street are completely unaffected by the sight of a woman beating the crap out of a girl. Not even “geez, take it off the streets!”

(44:01) Meanwhile, back at the Wall, an armed standoff has developed. I understand that Jon’s supporters are in danger from the mutineers, but this is all just killing time. It’s unnecessary, much like the stuff with Dany, since it neither advances the plot nor develops characters. Skip straight to the fight between the Free Folk and the mutineers. Get to the point.

(45:55) Cut to Melisandre starts here. Just so you all can appreciate how long this scene goes on for.

(46:31) Melisandre looks in a fuzzy mirror.

(46:53) Boobs: 1. What, you think it would be a season opener without tits?

(47:03) Female butts: 1.

(47:39) Gasp! Shock! Horror! Melisandre is old!

(47:44) Boobs: 2.

(47:53) Have a niiiiiiiiice long shot of this naked old woman. Be repulsed and horrified at the fact that women age. The show feels reasonably free to put unattractive naked men on the screen from time to time, but when there’s an unattractive woman on screen, it’s the focus of an episode’s reveal and everything is framed so we can appreciate just how unattractive she is.

(48:01) Female full frontal: 1.

(48:19) Female butts: 2.

So that was the reveal, everyone! What a shocking twist. In hindsight, we can see how knowledge of Melisandre’s true age and appearance makes a huge difference to the plot. Except no, it doesn’t come up again, the only difference is that after this point the showrunners won’t write in topless scenes for Melisandre, because now the audience knows how saggy she really is - it just wouldn’t be sexy anymore. Who needs a whole walk of shame when the same thing can be accomplished in one ponderously slow scene of a woman getting into bed?

The episode is named for Melisandre, and the “important” thing we discover about her here is that she’s old. She doesn’t do anything of plot relevance, and she’s going to be bringing someone back from the dead very shortly. The Red Woman! She’s actually old!

Game of Numbers S06E01

Deaths: 9. Brienne kills three people, Tyene two, and Pod, Theon, Ellaria, and Obara one each. Doran, Trystane, and Areo Hotah were amongst the casualties.

Boobs: 2.

Abs & pecs: 9.

Female butts: 2.

Male butts: 0.

Female full frontal: 1.

Male full frontal: 0.

Woman called “bitch”: 1.

Man called “bitch”: 0.

Varys is a eunuch: 1. Oh, it’s been too long since the last gratuitous mention of Varys’ mutilation!

#anti got #fine toothed comb edition #cw: violence #cw: rape #cw: abuse #only love pads the show #season six