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whats-9plus10 · 11 months

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Venture Bros Time Frame

Based on the Venture Brothers Wiki Timeline and what I could find in the show during my final rewatch before the movie. Like when I calculated Gary’s age, this is not an opinion piece. I pull straight from the source material.

I am not starting from a specific year because we know Venture Bros references current pop culture based on the year each season was released. Various dates documented in the show fail to provide a cohesive timeline. Hence, my focus is on the time frame. I'll be keeping track by noting "Venture Bros Year _" when the series moves into the next year and by referencing years as "000(number of year)" while using dates. I suggest following along with your calendar open like I had to do while organizing this lol.

S1e11 Past Tense - Orpheus predicts that The Action Man will have a stroke in "2 years, 17 days."

We will start pretty late into the first year, Venture Bros Year 1

S1e13 Are You There God, It's Me, Dean - Takes place in late September 0001.

The episode features Monarch's birthday, which is around late September 0001 when, according to him, "the leaves would be orange enough..." to build his Monarch wings.

The Monarch butterfly migration and the leaves turning can begin around late September in New Jersey.

A Very Venture Christmas Special occurs on Christmas, December 25th, 0001, between season 1 and season 2.

While the entire episode was a dream, it was still revealed to be Christmas time. Sally is shown to be pregnant with Rocket. This is important because it solidifies that this episode specifically took place sometime between s1e7 Ice Station Impossible and s2e5 20 Years to Midnight.

Venture Bros Year 2

S2e2 Hate Floats - The boys celebrate their 16th birthday.

S2e5 20 Years to Midnight - This episode takes place May 4th, 0002, "...in Rusty's 44th year." In s1e8 Mid-life Chrysalis, he states his age is 43. Rusty must have turned 44 last month on April 30th, 0002. This means a little over 7 months have passed since s1e13. Rocket was born to Sally Impossible during that time.

This means the boys' birthday is between December 26th - May 3rd. I'm casting a wide net because, for all we know, the episodes in between could have happened just days apart from each other. They live chaotic lives.

S2e11 ¡Viva los Muertos! - Rusty promises the boys will receive something better than their clones as Christmas gifts.

S2e12&13 Showdown at Cremation Creek (Parts 1 and 2) - This episode spans a month between the Monarch's proposal and the wedding.

S3e4 Home Is Where the Hate Is - The boys state that they are still 16 years old "going on 17". That phrase usually indicates a birthday is approaching, but we can't assume anything definitive. What this does tell us is that a full year has not gone by since s2e2 Hate Floats, assuming the boys didn't die again off-screen.

S3e5 The Buddy System - Billy says he is 35. Based on s2e12&13 Showdown at Cremation Creek (Parts 1 and 2), we know that he is 35 at least a month after May 4th, 0002.

Here's where it gets tricky

S3e8 Tears of a Sea Cow - Dean's newspaper is dated May 23rd. I will explore two possibilities.

Possibility 1

Even though I don't feel like the date on Dean's paper is strong evidence as it could be a secondhand thought made up by the animators or a reference to how each season seems to occur in the year it airs, the month of May would line up as the boys had previously told Hatred they were about to turn 17 years old four episodes prior, indicating a birthday was near. If we say we are already in Venture Bros Year 3 and believe the date in the newspaper to be May 23rd, 0003, the boys would already be 17 during this episode because we know their birthday is before May 4th. However...

S3e13 The Family That Slays Together, Stays Together Part 2 - Hank says "...open my Christmas gifts early...." referring to the clones they discovered in s2e11 ¡Viva los Muertos!. Indicating that December 25th, 0002 has not occurred yet.

Possibility 2

What this could mean, other than an oversight, is that it was May 23rd, 0002. This would make the boys still 16 years old. And everything between s2e5 20 Years to Midnight and s3e8 Tears of a Sea Cow takes place all in one month... but that also doesn't work because s2e12&13 Showdown at Cremation Creek (Parts 1 and 2) spans about a month by itself and we see the Monarchs multiple times in various stages of their relationship throughout season 2.

Because acknowledging the date in the newspaper would not work either way, I feel that it's safe to disregard it completely based on the current information we have. I feel more confident in trusting the writing that came directly from Doc and Jackson rather than the animation.

S4e1 Blood of the Father, Heart of Steel - The Nazis give Rusty "8 months" to clone Hitler. During this time Hank grew out his hair, Brock got out of shape and back in shape, and Gary got dieseled. Somewhere during those 8 months, we moved on to…

Venture Bros Year 3

S4e2 Handsome Ransom - Billy says he is 37. If Billy wasn't lying or rounding up, this means at least a year and a day have passed since s3e5 The Buddy System. The boys must be 17 at this point.

S4e5 The Revenge Society - Documenting where this episode takes place for a later reference.

S4e10 Pomp and Circuitry - Brock tells Hank "...you also have to be 18" to dissuade him from joining SPHINX. Confirming that two whole years have not passed since s2e2 Hate Floats.

S4e12 Everybody Comes to Hank's - Hank asks Dean "How was your summer?" hinting that they are approaching the middle to end of summer.

S4e15 The Silent Partners -JJ is in space building Gargantua II. This is information for later reference.

S4e16 Operation: P.R.O.M. - In the commentary, Doc and Jackson use prom to symbolize the boy's unofficial 18th birthday, more specifically their ascent into adulthood. I did not take this to mean it was literally their 18th birthday. The latest their birthday can be is May 3rd and at this point, they are nearing the fall.

S5e1 What Color Is Your Cleansuit? - Takes place the day after P.R.O.M. and spans 3 months. A Very Venture Halloween special takes place in the middle of it on October 31st, 0003. We see Gary raking leaves - Fall. Then the compound is covered in snow - Winter. The weather here is intentional to show the passage of time. It is unclear at this point if we have moved on to the next year. There is no mention of Christmas or New Year's. By the end of the episode, it could be as early as November 0003.

At this point, we are over 2 years and at least 1 month into the series. We started in September 0001 in s1e13 Are You There God, It's Me, Dean and are now sometime past October 31st, 0003. I am keeping in mind Orpheus' prediction of "2 years and 17 days". In the commentary Doc and Jackson state that the Action Man could have considered his health since the prediction which resulted in delaying his stroke.

S5e3 SPHINX Rising - Gary says "Hank is an adult." I took this to mean he had turned 18 at some point. While their birthday may be at the end of December because we had cast a wide net for them earlier, I will assume we’ve moved on to…

Venture Bros Year 4

Here’s where it gets tricky part 2

S5e4 Spanakopita! - This episode should take place in October. Team Venture attended the wedding of Aristotle Onassis and Jackie Kennedy which took place on October 20th, 1968. Another historical event mentioned was the Apollo 7 mission, which took place Oct 11, 1968 – Oct 22, 1968. In the flashback we see Spanakopita aligning with the Splashdown date, October 22, 1968. This is evidence that the dates are intentional.

In this episode we see Hank in his strength suit, confirming that Spanakopita takes place after s5e1 What Color Is Your Cleansuit? and A Very Venture Halloween special. I feel it's unlikely that they intended for a full year to have passed between s5e1 What Color Is Your Cleansuit? and s5e4 Spanakopita!. I want to make this as accurate as possible so I'm going to entertain two possibilities.

Possibility 1

If we say that s5e4 Spanakopita! was not intended to take place in October specifically and it was an oversight, then I feel safe to assume the warm weather we see after s5e1 What Color Is Your Cleansuit? indicates that we've moved onto spring or summer, still in Venture Bros Year 4.

S5e5 O.S.I. Love You - Hank’s limbs atrophied from wearing the strength suit he found in S5e3 SPHINX Rising for “weeks”.

S5e6 Momma's Boys - Hank tells Dermott “Last year…” and references the events of s4e5 The Revenge Society which took place in Venture Bros Year 3.

S5e7 Bot Seeks Bot - This episode takes place in July 0004. We see a flashback in S7e3 Arrears in Science which took place the night before Thanksgiving, November 0004.

S5e8 The Devil's Grip - Dean says a third of his age is 6 - indicating he is probably 18.

All This and Gargantua-2 - Monarch says Rusty “hasn’t paid his electric bill since June.” We know we are in July or August because s5e7 Bot Seeks Bot takes place in July 0004.

Season 6 starts in Venture Bros Year 4, August or September 0004 because we know Dean had applied and enrolled in the Fall Semester. The boys would be 18 years old—3 years since s1e13 Are You There God, It's Me, Dean.

S6e1 Hostile Makeover - Hatred says he's "been waiting to do that (hit Gary) for weeks”, assuming he is referring to the last time he saw Gary in either s5e8 The Devil's Grip.

S6e4 Rapacity in Blue - Takes place on October 7th, 0004. The timestamps are in the top right corner of the security camera videos.

S6e5 Tanks for Nuthin’ - Takes place on October 8th, 0004 the morning after s6e4 Rapacity in Blue.

S7e1 The Venture Bros. & The Curse of the Haunted Problem - This episode takes place the in the days leading up to Thanksgiving, November 0004. We flashback 2 years ago to JJ discovering the Gargantua crash. This implies JJ made this discovery sometime in Venture Bros Year 2.

According to The Art and Making of the Venture Bros. - Rocket is 3 or 4 years old now.

Next, we have a clear time span thanks to s7e3 Arrears in Science. It's Thanksgiving, November 0004. 3 years and 2 months since s1e13 Are You There God, It's Me, Dean.

Time jump to the start of the Spring Semester in s7e4 The High Cost of Loathing, which starts in Venture Bros Year 5, January 0005.

S7e4 High Cost of Loathing - There is a "two months later" time jump at the beginning of the episode.

We are still in Winter Venture Bros Year 5 as of the final episode. In total making the time span from s1e13 Are You There God, It's Me, Dean to s7e10 The Saphrax Protocol 3 years and at least 4 months.

Possibility 2

If we do say it has been another year and s5e4 Spanakopita! takes place in Venture Bros Year 4, October 0004, which means almost everything is pushed back a year. The boys would be 18 years old.

S5e5 O.S.I. Love You - Hank’s limbs atrophied from wearing the strength suit he found in S5e3 for “weeks”.

S5e6 Momma's Boys - Hank tells Dermott “Last year…” and references the events of s4e5 The Revenge Society which took place in Venture Bros Year 3. That would mean this episode would need to take place between October 23rd, 0004 and December 31st, 0004.

Venture Bros Year 5

S5e7 Bot Seeks Bot - This episode takes place in July 0005. We see a flashback in S7e3 Arrears in Science which took place the night before Thanksgiving, November 0005.

S5e8 The Devil's Grip - Dean says a third of his age is 6 - Dean must be 19 at this point and have rounded 6 years and 3 months down to just 6.

All This and Gargantua-2 - Monarch says Rusty “hasn’t paid his electric bill since June.” We know we are in July or August because s5e7 Bot Seeks Bot takes place in July 0005.

Season 6 starts in August or September 0005, because we know Dean had applied and enrolled in the Fall Semester. At this point, the boys would have to be 19 years old. - 4 years since s1e13 Are You There God, It's Me, Dean. Overshooting the 2 years and 17 days prediction by a lot.

S6e1 Hostile Makeover - Hatred says he's "been waiting to do that (hit Gary) for weeks”, assuming he is referring to the last time he saw Gary in either s5e8 The Devil's Grip.

S6e4 Rapacity in Blue - Takes place on October 7th, 0005.

S6e5 Tanks for Nuthin’ - Takes place on October 8th, 0005 the morning after s6e4 Rapacity in Blue.

S7e1 The Venture Bros. & The Curse of the Haunted Problem - This episode takes place the in the days leading up to Thanksgiving, November 0005. We flashback 2 years ago to JJ discovering the Gargantua crash. This implies JJ made the discovery sometime in Venture Bros Year 3 before S4e15 The Silent Partners.

According to The Art and Making of the Venture Bros. - Rocket is 3 or 4 years old now.

Again, we have a clear time span thanks to s7e3 Arrears in Science. It's Thanksgiving, November 0005. 4 years and 2 months since s1e13 Are You There God, It's Me, Dean.

Finally, we have the time jump to the start of the Spring Semester in s7e4 The High Cost of Loathing, which would start in Venture Bros Year 6, January 0006.

S7e4 High Cost of Loathing - There is a "two months later" time jump at the beginning of the episode.

We are still in Winter 0006 as of the final episode. Making the time span in this possibility, from s1e13 Are You There God, It's Me, Dean to s7e10 The Saphrax Protocol, 4 years and at least 4 months.

NOTES AND THOUGHTS

S1e1 Dia de los Dangerous - Presumably this episode takes place on Dia los Muertos, November 1st. Monarch states that he's in Mexico to find his foster parents. Butterflies arrive in Mexico around early November. Because this happened before Orpheus' prediction, it could be plausible that there is almost a year between the first episode and s1e13 Are You There God, It's Me, Dean. It is probably just as likely that Doc and Jackson were not considering keeping to a set time frame until much later in the series.

JJ did not appear in the season 1 Christmas Special. The boys are alive. Rusty was not on his journey running away from the boys' deaths. I wonder if this means s1e13 Return to Spider-Skull Island took place after Christmas. I am also not considering the weather as a determining factor here because I remember hearing about issues with animating different backgrounds in the earlier seasons.

If it helps, I placed the boy’s birthday on the Ides of March (March 15th) to help me keep track of things. It’s both a significant historical date and a 70’s rock band. Plus I wanted them to be Pisces :)

I also stuck the Monarch's birthday on September 30th because that's when Don became Venturion. I think it's poetic.

Doc and Jackson are phenomenal writers and I’m sure if they were to address this in the show they would find a way for it to make sense that we would all enjoy. I had a lot of fun doing this. I love digging deep into my favorite show and piecing together what I find 💛 Go Team Venture!

#I said go team venture but I meant Monarch crew 4 life #This took such a long time I hope it's somewhat accurate #vbros #venture bros #radiant is the blood of the baboon heart #the venture bros #rusty venture #hank venture #dean venture #the monarch #dr mrs the monarch #henchman 21 #gary fischer #billy quizboy #byron orpheus

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maxdark158 · 11 months

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Making my own rottmnt timeline (that includes lost episodes) and i think I'm going to start making vent posts instead of finding new friends to harass with my problems until they're exhausted/hj

So far I've put the episodes in a tenuous order. Because they aired out of order (evidence: hypno part deux happens at the same time as repo mantis but airs well after repo mantis AND the appearance of the turtle tank, also the first episode to show hueso is the fast and furriest, NOT the episode they meet him) I've had to basically just. Use context clues to the best of my ability and a lot of pain, suffering, and some tears. Now I'm going to try and make a timeline based on. Ya know. Time. As much as I can anyway with the like 4 dates the series provides

Below the cut is copy pasted woes I've sent to a friend

(These messages are sent to a friend over 24 hours of agony)

Fml btw

I'm trying to figure out a timeline for rottmnt

It is n ot easy

Also... I think I'm going to make my life even more hellish and include the lost episodes

I do actually have a pretty great source for those luckily!

https://turtlepedia.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Archer.Warrior/The_Lost_ROTTMNT_Episodes

There's a number of episodes that have nothing besides their episode name, some of which one of the creators said could be fake episide names. It's mentioned in this post

https://www.tumblr.com/yujateaandpi/704460357578670080/our-happygirl500-fan-so-ive-been-digging?source=share

these are all the episodes that have NO released stuff besides the episode name. not a description, not any concepts, nothing. some of them i do think are real (april showers and mayhem flowers) but some of them. no idea tbh

the post discusses 2 that person thinks are real based on context clues but yeah idk how many of these ill include in my timeline given i have NOTHING to go off of 😭

April showers mayhem flowers I think is to address mayhem leaving

Maybe splash hogs is something to do with the shell hogs or meat sweats?

In the og battle nexus NY, big mama and shredder were supposed to fall down to the hidden city, her hotel completely crashing down through NY. Maybe spiders web widens was supposed to be them helping big mama, or trying to, something referenced in the aired version of the episode when splinter tried to help her?

Friend: I think that could be likely. Read something awhile a back stating that, season 2 was gonna be more focused on big mama as the villain n so on and that.. would've really fit

Yepp. Cause the funny thing is that battle nexus NY was supposed to happen MID SEASON

And after that, they're basically trying to find her and the shredder cause they both booked it, racing against the foot to do so

Also something I realized since I'm obsessing over rottmnt atm:

It's Mrs. Cuddles

Who the FUCK is she married to??

-later-

I can feel my brain deteriorating

So fast and the furriest, newsworthy, and mascot melee, HAVE to occur before Bug Busters in the timeline. That also means hypno part deux and repo HAVE to occur before then, as well as donnie's gifts and newsworthy. Mascot Melee is the latest to occur in that bunch, because it's the only one post turtle tank debut. The rest are either the debut episode or don't have any turtle tank

So far so good, right?

Thing is timeline wise I'm trying to also follow along mystic power trends, so raphs episodes struggling with mystic powers/not yet doing a full body mode has to also be before bug busters. War and pizza, minotaur maze, and maybe longest fight? If I remember right?

Well longest fight does have to be earlier in the timeline because raph says "the freaky flame guys are back stealing jewelry", kind of implying this is the second time they've seen the foot, so it's def earlier/mid season

Friend: I admire you for how dedicated you are to this- doing what Nick refused to do.

That does sound right!

(Thank you dude that helped a lot)

Not to mention they underestimate the flame guys enough to keep watching skateboarding, cause they got a decently good victory against them the first time

Minotaur maze ALSO has to be pre turtle tank, because that's the episode they discover the mutant pizza place, which they visit when trying to find the turtle tankI think the gumbus happened while donnie was building the turtle tank. It's an introduction episode, so its earlier in the series, but there's 0 donnie (or raph, but raph could also be doing his own thing or helping get materials for don)I do think there should be some episodes between repo and turtle tank, because that was NOT a quick build, but there's only like 3 episodes without donnie and 2 of them have to happen a bit later

You got served has to happen after portal jacked, because portal jacked is when leo went from "annoying ass gremlin" to "begrudgingly my nephew". Why would hueso call for Leo's help pre portal jacked with how he was acting during the start of portal jacked? I think portal jacked is after the fast and the furriest, and cause Leo's been going there a lot he sees hueso as an adult he can get help from even tho hueso is annoyed af by him

And portal jacked should also happen earlier cause leo still doesn't understand how to get to the hidden city on his own, but if it happened after splinter began getting involved again not only would he be able to ask for the doohickey again, he'd probably *go to his dad for help in the first place*

So portal jacked is definitely BEFORE shadows of evil, despite what air dates tell you

Leo's portal powers are also more improved than the start, he's able to make large portals and usually succeeds at making them, but he gets the location wrong. Its probably just before or after late fee, where he also makes a large portal, but seems unsure if it'll work. Probably similar timing to mutant menace too, cause he makes a large portal but doesn't control where it'll go very well

So portal jacked is earlier making you got served later so it can't happen before bug busters

Nothing but truffle is the other no donnie episode, it has to happen AFTER Mrs cuddles though because she's in the episode. It also happens after repo, which does mean it *could* be while donnie is building the tank, but it's kind of implied meat sweats has seen mikey more than once or twice.

Idk, tbh I have a lot of trouble placing nothing but truffle

so far this is the timeline im most sure on. the highlighted episodes I have concrete evidence for their placement. i've inferenced the other two tbh but they make sense

as you can see, i havent even gotten to bug busters yet. it's so confusing rip

i think purple jacket has to be pre turtle tank because if the dragons could steal donnie's leathal weapon filled tank and use it, why would they NOT?? but they only stole his battle shells and tech bo, so i presume the tank wasn't finished yet so they didn't bother stealing it

shell in a cell just has to happen earlier to allow ghost bear to continue being a nuicence, i put it where it makes sense i think? may move it an episode or two higher or lower, but it's definitely within this list somewhere

I just thought this placement made sense cause the raph/leo fight in minotaur maze wasn't really resolved, so that tension could carry over to shell in a cell in which they make up and fight together

Smart lair I think is post bullhop, and bullhop is ABSOLUTELY post pizza pit

Things get more muddled after bug busters

The only things that have to happen a certain way is Pizza Pit -> Bullhop -> Smart Lair -> Mind Meld. There can be episodes between them, but they have to be in that order

-later-

Oh my god

Cloak and swaggart might be WAY EARLIER in the timeline than i ever expected what

There's a potential cameo of the Sandro Brothers pre mutation in it???

I'm losing my mind this would move every sunita episode up by a LOT

Cause this is the last sunita episode!!! But it has to happen pre evil league of mutants??

Oh my god

Now are they wearing cloaking brooches or name tags?

Probably name tags

Cause of the shape. Brooches are. Well. Brooches. Very semicircle. These are flat

But also this fucks with the timeline so badly?? Cause now shelldon has to be moved up, but also splinter is taking them on a training mission?? He didn't begin seriously training them until AFTER shadows of evil!

Fuck it. They're cloaking brooches. They panicked cause "I recognize that pig dude"

-later-

Should mystic library be before or after shadows of evil?

It's definitely later, cause raph uses full form mystic powers and increased size, his mystic powers are very adept. But how late?

Friend: Aftwr

Thank you

-later-

Tbh the biggest wrench in everything is Snow Day

Because Snow Day clearly takes place in *winter*

But there is NO WINTER IN ANY OTHER EPISODE

So it is just. An outlier

-later-

(NO SHAME ON THE PERSON WHO MADE THE INCORRECT TIMELINE BTW, THIS SHIT IS H ARD, I COMPLETELY UNDERSTAND MISTAKES)

If you read through all that thank you, you're lovely

#rottmnt #rottmnt timeline #rottmnt timeline torture saga #save rise of the teenage mutant ninja turtles #bring back rise #bring back rise of the tmnt

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priohuq · 5 months

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Okay, this is gonna be the kinda post that probably none of you follow me for, but you do follow me and now you must reap the consequences of that decision.

I've been watching Blood+ recently. It's an anime from 2005 vaguely based on Blood: The Last Vampire.

That's all the background context I care to give here, you have access to the same wikipedia I do.

Minor spoilers and major rambling follow. So if you like anime about girls killing monsters with a katana, maybe go watch it first. I'll wait.

Recent episodes (Here meaning, episodes I saw recently, regardless of actual release date) haven taken place in London/The UK. And, I was quite surprised at how accurately it seems to portray the UK?

Burger King, beer and soccer all exist internationally, but who the hell knows about Boots outside the UK? (If it's actually very well known then I'm about to find out just how sheltered from humanity I am and cry a bit.)

I also noticed some of the background noise on the streets of London seemed to actually have English voices in it?? Could have just been a stock sound effect, or maybe one of the creators went so far as to actually go to the UK and recorded some audio while there. Either way, it's a level of detail I really didn't expect to hear. I also have no idea how to look into what actually happened behind the scenes, if such things are on record.

Anyway, I get to episode 35 and I see this building.

The sign is way too blurred for me to read, but something about this building makes a spark in my brain. The scene that follows this shot, taking place inside the building, suggests that it's some kind of taxidermy museum. I'd recently had a conversation with a friend, about a museum I'd get taken to as a kid, which also had a lot of taxidermy in it. So I guess it was on my mind. (If you're curious, it was the Horniman museum. The walrus there taught me how to fear.)

My autism fully engaging, I take to google maps to see if this is even a real place. I went through EVERY MUSEUM IN THE UK with taxidermy in it. There were actually only like five, it really didn't take long.

It exists. Sadly lacking the sign with a zebra on it. It's the Natural History Museum at Tring and it contains dead things.

While looking into this place on wikipedia to write this up, I found that until 2007, it was called the Walter Rothschild Zoological Museum, which seems to match what the unreadable blurry screenshot above might say. The museum was initially the private collection of a Lionel Walter, 2nd Baron Rothschild, who happened to also be a big fan of zebras it seems.

My guess is that at least one person involved in the production of Blood+ had been to the UK, maybe even this museum in particular, and it ended up in the show. Again, I haven't looked up behind-the-scenes info, and don't even know if it's on record.

Something I do find interesting, is that in my admittedly very brief google searches, I couldn't find any references to this. Part of the problem is that "Blood" is also a word, so my searches were pulling in some medical related results. But even the Fandom (ick) wiki for Blood+, in the synopsis for the episode, just calls it a museum. That same wiki has pages for the Metropolitan Art Museum in New York, and the Vietnam History Museum in Hanoi, as they appear in other episodes.

I doubt I'm the first person to find this information, but I guess the cross section of people who saw Blood+, people who recognise or hunt for British museums they see in anime, and people who talk about these things on the internet is very small.

Seeing real places in media can be fun. I once spent a few hours looking up locations shown in Digimon Story: Cyber Sleuth on google street view. On a different occasion I came across a collection of google map pins for the different locations in Steins;Gate.

I don't know how popular Blood+ was, or how good this museum is. I just find it weird that I couldn't find any record of this connection at all. But it's also more than possible that people did notice it, and I just couldn't find it. It feels like it should at least be a poorly worded item on an IMDB trivia page.

#anime #rambling #blood+#blood: the last vampire

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kenobster · 5 months

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Omg, thank you for the tip about pillowfort being run by antis!

Ahh, I'm so relieved to hear that the tip was helpful to someone!! :') Thank you for saying so!

I also I wanted to answer with more information on it because, sighs, idk, I'm worried lots of people have never heard of the Pillowfort Shenanigans™ in the first place... which troubles me... because, as an author of taboo content and an opponent of censorship, I really do not want Pillowfort to succeed. In fact, I very much hope that they fail. 🙃

Note: In full transparency, I have not kept up-to-date on Pillowfort happenings in some time. I don't know who owns Pillowfort currently or what changes they have made (or apologies they have given), and, though I very much doubt it, it's totally possible things are different now. This post is just my recollection of the events that happened in 2018 and 2019. I do vouch for this post's accuracy, but please do not take my word as law.

Back in the winter of 2018, when Tumblr announced its decision to ban female-representing nipples, a lot of us were looking for a new place to kick open shop. There was talk amongst fandommers about making a social media platform like Tumblr but with the same fan-run principles of AO3. Fortunately, a handful of people had already taken on this venture a couple of years prior, and they happened to be ready just in time to seize this opportunity. Thus, a website called Pillowfort was launched in the conclusion of a Kickstarter. At the time, this was quite appealing to the Tumblr userbase, who flocked in droves to purchase their $5.00 Pillowfort accounts. Unfortunately, the people who started Pillowfort seem to have been (1) completely uninformed on how to run a website, and (2) completely uninformed on what made their inspiration so successful. Specifically, I'm talking about AO3's commitment to the ship & let ship/YKINMKATO ideal, which allows any content so long as it is legal. Lots of people would likely argue that this very principle is a large part of what has kept AO3 from the content purges that used to be extremely common. A phenomenon that Pillowfort, even in my brief experience, did not escape.

Around the end of 2018, Pillowfort released a policy statement regarding its stance on explicit artwork & underage characters. This policy statement forbade any "explicit visual art of characters that appear to be underage" (emphasis added). In other words, Pillowfort, after presenting itself as a solution to Tumblr's ban on sexually explicit fanart, had now decided to impose limitations on sexually explicit fanart? Let alone with wording that should raise immediate red flags to anyone who knows their fandom history? In case you're thinking they had some secret reason for this decision, the kind of fanart Pillowfort described in their policy statement is not illegal in the United States, in which Pillowfort was basing its terms of service. Additionally, at the time, Pillowfort was not even available to users under 18 without signed parental permission. (At least IIRC.) As far as we know, Pillowfort's decision was based solely on staff's personal preference. The post goes on to clarify their stance with the following:

"Now, due to the inherently subjective nature of trying to determine the age of a fictional character in a stylized medium, the "gray area" cases will be up to the discretion of the moderator reviewing the content. . . . We are not going to comb through the wiki of a particular fandom to try and find the canonical age of a fictional character. . . . Any explicit or sexual art of a character that appears to be physically pre-pubescent or barely pubescent (i.e. not plausibly or arguably of age, or even close to it) will be prohibited." (Emphasis added)

So... basically... what they're saying... is that if I post some sexually explicit but fictional fanart of two consenting adult characters, then Pillowfort user Karen Cuntsdottir could still potentially get my fanart deleted... and simply because it looks to both Karen Cuntsdottir and a random moderator as if the characters haven't finished puberty. Even if the actual canonical age of the character is over 18. Cool. 🙃 For those of you who may think this is a reasonable decision (which fuck off if so), this can get really dicey for characters who are otherwise consenting adults but with large age gaps, height differences, or naturally youthful appearances. As for anyone who maybe uses sexually explicit fanart like that to cope with their own CSA or who enjoys it for any other totally acceptable reason because it's fiction? Sorry, buddy, you're tough out of luck. Plus, I know that Pillowfort claims in their statement that they're not gonna go after dark content or whatever, but anyone who has a working brain knows that censorship of creative works is always a slippery slope.

In Pillowfort's defense, the argument can be made that people are allowed to consider personal preference in the creation of their own website. Unfortunately, this is not where the story ends. If you'll notice, their policy statement begins, "We apologize for not clarifying our position on this earlier; we have been working on revising the ToS to address these issues, but an incident arose today that necessitated us taking action on this matter, so it seems necessary to put things in plain terms now" (emphasis added).

What the hell incident are they talking about? Well, friends, this is where things get gross. Assuming the allegations are true (and no one, not Pillowfort, not any of its users, nor anyone else seems to have challenged their veracity), the whole reason for Pillowfort's policy statement was because of an incident that occured between Pillowfort and one of its users called Ojicon.* Earlier on, Ojicon had tried to log into their account and was unable to. Despite the bugs and lags and weirdness continuing to plague Pillowfort to this day, Ojicon soon discovered that their user page was redirecting everyone to a 404 error page, and that all of their comments and posts on Pillowfort had been removed. Eventually, Ojicon put two and two together and figured out that Pillowfort had banned their account... and it had done so without sending any kind of email or communication. In fact, Pillowfort never initiated any communication with Ojicon; it was Ojicon themselves who reached out to Pillowfort for information. Eventually Ojicon got their answer. Their account had been banned for a post featuring lolicon fanart—something that, at the time, was not against Pillowfort's terms of service. For further context, Ojicon recounts flagging their fanart using the NSFW feature, putting it beneath a read-more cut, and properly warning for underage content in their post. Despite this, Ojicon was given no warnings, no suspensions, and no chances to remove this fanart. Ojicon's entire Pillowfort account (an account Ojicon had paid for) was summarily banned without any notice whatsoever—and again, it was banned for something that had not been against the rules. Oh, and in case you're wondering, Pillowfort did confirm all of this in their response to Ojicon's email as follows:

"Yes, you were banned from the site today by a moderator. It is true that our ToS doesn't clearly define a limitation on pornographic fiction or art (we have been working on a revision of our ToS to address this issue but it isn't finished yet), so if you contributed to our Kickstarter or PayPal and want a refund then let us know and we will provide it."

*Note: Unfortunately this happened so long ago that it's hard to find legitimate sources for the exact goings-on described above, but this LiveJournal thread does a pretty good job at documenting everything. Also this archived post has a good summary and link roundup of the situation. Finally this study is really interesting and goes into the finer details of what I'm describing above.

So even if you argue that Pillowfort has a right to put whatever they want in their terms of service (despite the fact that they specifically invited Tumblr users fleeing the NSFW ban to their website, got $5 per account, and then completely changed the terms of service on said Tumblr users), Pillowfort still banned a user preemptively for something that was not yet against the rules and failed to mention any of this in their policy statement (or to the individual they were banning). And all of this was done despite their alleged commitment to transparency. IIRC, the substantial pushback they got for this choice eventually led them to share more details on the "incident" they had briefly mentioned in their policy statement... but they didn't add any new information other than what had already been found out from others. Plus, they doubled down on the wording in their policy statement (despite how easily exploitable it would be). And, while they did refund $5 to anyone who was upset by this decision, many people, myself included, did not have the energy to go through the hassle of that (especially because, while understandably so, Pillowfort implemented a time frame for how long they would be providing refunds for this reason). So I'm certain that many users let Pillowfort keep their money and that Pillowfort probably kept quite a pretty penny earned via their false promise.

Whatever the case, many of us who do not stand for anti behavior left Pillowfort, leaving behind a large amount of people who were antis themselves and/or generally supported Pillowfort's decision. Thus, I imagine Pillowfort became and remains an unsafe place for fandommers, and I do not recommend it to anyone as a substitute for Tumblr.

#Pillowfort #antis #long post #not SW related #answer #that gay jedi #CW csa mention

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obserfdom · 5 years

Text

False God, Kaylor's New Anthem

False God - the sexiest part of the album, Lover, (similar to the flirtatious Dress in Reputation) to me personally, has a intriguing meaning. I have searched the web to see what analyses so far regarding the lyrics. Nothing much, mostly saying that it is about Joe Alwyn. Okay, let's debunk this one. 'Cause I also know that Kaylors have an interpretation from the gay's angle.

I think, I can speak on both perspectives, since I've been in both. I once married, however my biggest love life relationship was with woman. So, I am really curious to know, in what angle did Taylor actually write this song.

***

We were crazy to think. Crazy to think that "this" could work -> okay, since almost everyone out there agree that FG about love/relationship, so "this" referring to Taylor relationship (lover).

Now, don't you think it kinda strange that Taylor having a doubt about her relationship with Joe? I mean, she was 27th when she first met Joe & with enough experiences in relationship already, not to mention Joe is also coming from almost the same background, apart from different country and Joe gained celebrity status from the cinematic industry, but still I mean, what is so crazy about starting a "heteronormative" relationship like that?

Unless... she was talking about a "different kind" of relationship - something, which in general, still being perceived as 'abnormal'...

Hmmm, interesting.

But wait, there's another way to translate it, that somehow during that moment she was having an existential crisis. She questioned a lot of thing: the meaning of being celebrity i.e. she worked so hard to pursue her dream whilst at the same time she was devastated by the facts that people whom she thought once friends, stabbed her from the back - or that strangers would start to belittle & mocking her for everything - she had trust issue, she started losing confidence, she hold grudge, she was in emotional turbulance (these loosely translation based on her interviews).

Hence: she thought to drag someone to her "crazy" world would be tenacious.

Remember how I said I'd die for you? --> seems like she was really madly in love here

We were stupid to jump --> yet they've decided to taste the water anyhow

In the ocean separating us. Remember how I'd fly to you?

--> ok, again, this does fit Joe. Cause taking it in literal sense, then it probably about her had to fly back n forth US-UK.

However, Karlie still fits the role as well, I think, since they both doing a busy life, mostly continental apart.

Whoever it was for, metaphorically speaking it is about how she was making a sacrifice for the relationship to work.

And I can't talk to you when you're like this

--> later we would comprehend that Taylor was talking about a moment when her and lover had some feud. When she restrospected how during the couple-fight, her beau would:

Staring out the window

(I imagine her beau stood still, in silence, gazed through the window) avoiding to look her in the face, thus she thought:

like I'm not your favorite town

!!! What is her beau fave town?

I'm New York City

(yeah, baby!) And whose fav city is New York? Karlie Kloss!

"Well, Joe can also regard NYC as his fave city..." True - but, Taylor wouldn't be writing something that has no common reference to it. I've googled Joe's city preference and came out with null results. While as for Karlie Kloss, almost everywhere - you can find her boasting around about how much she loves NYC. As a matter of fact - she was the one who convinced Taylor to move to NYC in 2014 (and Taylor has been in love to the city, since).

Furthermore the next lyrics kinda congruent to the above speculation:

I still do it for you, babe

--> "I moved to NYC still staying here to date because of you." See, it still a close referrence to Karlie.

Can you come out with different translation that lead to Joe, instead? If you do, please let me know in the comment.

They all warned us about times like this. They say the road gets hard and you get lost

--> this one is really interesting. We all know Joe and Taylor still together and that Taylor somehow bragging about how happy in relationship she is now. But here as if like her saying that 'something happened to the couple' in FG story. Something big and terrible - something that might cause them to split/break apart.

And she kinda blame, the reason why it happened cause:

When you're led by blind faith. Blind faith

--> what is the meaning of "blind faith" in term of falling in love? Yes, when you are so in love that you are willing to do anything to retain or to be in it. You disregard everything, cause you are so drunk inside the pool of love, lust, altogether. You become 'blind'.

Ok, let's speak in het point a view, first - do you think, you see a magical spark when seeing Joe with Taylor out and about? Hard to tell? Okay, fair enough.

But here, an excerpt from Rolling Stone interview:

Her paused after accentuated the word "if"... to me is her showing hesitation even doubt to the idea of having a family.

Kinda weird coming from her current public image in Lover Era where she continue asserting how happy she is and how seems like, she has found the love of her life.

Further in FG she asserted that she is madly in love with someone whom she willing to die for - to fly across ocean for - so much intoxicated by love as if like having a blind faith!

Unless... the love of her life which she depicted in FG is...

in which because of that, for her to think of the ideas of: 'to be together, be a family'; would be a crazy notion and hard to imagine.

***

Yet, she also made it clear in FG, despite the odd, she was not ready to release the idea of 'stick together for good', because she thought there is still possibility that:

(But) we might just get away with it

***

The following lyrics to me, kinda raw and blatant:

Religion's in your lips. Even if it's a false god. We'd still worship.

(We might just get away with it)

The altar is my hips.

Lips & hips -> you imagine anything? (Lol).

Why False God? Clearly, she still talking about love:

Even if it's a false god. We'd still worship this love.

So in another word, Taylor using False God as a metaphor for passionate love she was experiencing with someone.

But why False God?

My take using gay perspective: is because we know how most religions condemn homosexuality. So with probably her involved in the same sex relationship, which would be considered sin or false by many, this probably her way of saying: "I don't care. I have all the rights to love whomever I want to love, regardless what society in heterenormative world would think!"

I know heaven's a thing. I go there when you touch me, honey. Hell is when I fight with you. But we can patch it up good. Make confessions and we're begging for forgiveness. Got the wine for you.

In general sense, the narrative here is about normal things happen in relationship. It's about having differences inside romance - a fight, a quarrel- then "kiss and make up".

But again, it is interesting how she chose the religious term like 'hell' and 'heaven' to equate her romantic endeavours.

This can't stop me from thinking that she actually is talking about sacred-secret love which against religious belief.

(Again, her way in saying: "I don't care your heaven or hell! I have my own, in this love-life story of mine!").

I would also like to re-iterate: "Got the wine for you" - seemingly her 'make up' sentence for her beau. But it is interesting to think about her chosen word "wine" there. It could mean literally that they both do love wine or...

"intimate love" - ok very much correlated. Yet further from the same source (wiki), wine (alcohol in general) often perceived as "evil".

So in which way, Taylor denoted "wine"? If its in devilish way, yes, then it is another mockery from her to religious dogma as if like saying: "I don't mind being perceived as evil. Me and lover will continue doing what we are doing!"

And you can't talk to me when I'm like this. Daring you to leave me just so I can try and scare you.

Hehe, so woman, don't you think? ;)

You're the West Village. You still do it for me, babe.

A shout out to Kaylors on this. Cause west village in literal meaning is a place where Karlie once lived.

Is there any other meaning for West Village? Yes, a big maybe. But unfortunately, I couldn't find any. Perhaps, you can dig on that and tell me later?

Finally, when come back to:

They all warned us about times like this. They say the road gets hard and you get lost

--> if we persevere with Karlie's scenario - then one could imagine this depiction is perfectly suitable to the Kaylors conspiracy theory.

How we speculated that their relationship in trouble - they chose to beard for their career sake - beside continue "behind the scene" with their LOVE that worthy eternal worshipping.

Sounds too delusional?

Perhaps. But since it is still a blank space, one owns a prerogative to write things accordingly. And False God is a love letter from Taylor Swift to Karlie Kloss? I'd say ameen to that!

xxx

Update: Joe Alwyn Fave City (thank you @dodsdmr for this info)

#kaylors #kaylor #debunking kaylor #joe alwyn #karlie kloss #album lover #lover era #taylor swift #false god #taylor lyrics #false god meaning #false god lyrics analysis #taylor swift's song analysis #swifties

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