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nexysworld · 2 months

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Dead Dove, Content Entitlement, and Fandoms

There's been no end of posts clogging up popular fandom tags with arguments and opinions on dark content, dead dove, and related things. While I've seen some decent posts that go over media literacy and dark content, I personally feel like none fully encompass my entire feelings on this nor provide all the points that I feel are important.

I know people have strong feelings on this subject, and I'm not expecting to immediately change anyone's minds. But I hope maybe I can toss some food for thought out there, or provide further context from both a victim of SA as well as a content creator. This has been bothering me for a while now to the point where it has been making me no longer want to write or engage in fandoms on Tumblr, and so I needed to get this out there with my stance. I've also had people in my inbox stating that my dark content is somehow morally better than other writer's dark content. TW: Mentions of dark content including discussions of noncon/dubcon, harassment, SA, etc.

Addressing Common Points

If you write or consume [INSERT CONTENT], you're romanticizing and endorsing it and that makes you a bad person. Or, you're weird/wrong/gross for it. I see this brought up primarily with dubcon/noncon topics. It should go without saying, but fiction is fantasy, it's separate from real life. Adults who consume this type of content understand that these things are NOT ok in real life. But to take it a step further, I want to stress that having noncon fantasies is actually INCREDIBLY common. In studies regarding these fantasies, nearly 50% or more of people who participated admitted to having fantasies that align with these topics the majority of which are women. Not only that but these kinds of fantasies are even more common in people who have been victims of these crimes. This isn't some niche thing only liked by a minority of people. If you don't believe me here's an example of ONE study, but there's plenty of easily accessible information out there. By conflating consuming/writing this content with someone's moral character stigmatizes these feelings further and does more harm than good. And I know what you're thinking though. But why? Why would someone who's gone through something like that fantasize about something so awful? Why is this appealing to anyone, victims or not? Fiction creates a safe space to explore topics. In fiction there are no real victims, no one is actually getting hurt, it's all fake. The characters aren't real and if at any point as the reader you are too uncomfortable to continue, you can stop and exit. You can like the idea of a fictional person tossing you around, while also feeling uncomfortable if a real life man tried to pick you up a the bar or didn't take no for an answer. There's also "normal" things you can fantasize about, but not want to participate in IRL.

Hypocrisy and what is considered dark content? This won't apply to everyone, but I've seen a number of people who claim to be anti-dark content but reblog things that are non consensual, perhaps without realizing it. And this is especially true for those who are younger on here. Please understand that noncon/dubcon does not inherently need to be violent or gory. Any situation in which there's a lack of consent or a power imbalance is inappropriate. Somno fics? If it's not explicitly stated that it was agreed upon prior in the fic, that is still non consensual even if it's written to be "sweet.", even if it's a pre-established relationship. Professor x student fics? There's power imbalance there. There's a reason you cannot have a relationship with your teachers in real life. Hybrid fics? Most people write hybrids as completely sentient people who are treated as sex slaves. They have little choice or are "following instinct." You cannot consent to someone who literally OWNS you after adopting you. You get the gist. There's far more to consent than physically manhandling someone. Yet because these things are written in a way that contextualizes them as being "sweet" and "normal", they aren't considered dark content by many people. If you're ok with the above, you have to understand that these ARE forms of dubcon/noncon. I would even argue that these are more romanticizing of these topics than stuff that's far more explicit in nature. If you would be pissed if your IRL partner tried to feel you up in your sleep, but enjoy somno fics, or enjoy the Taboo of Professor Leon, but wouldn't fuck your actual college professor - then that is the EXACT way in which people who enjoy even "darker" content can enjoy the fiction whilst not partaking in real life.

It sets a bad example for younger people on the website/"protect the children." Children shouldn't be looking at smut in general, dark content, vanilla content, etc. I don't know what else to tell you. It is NOT the job of content creators to try and police what teenagers do on the internet, that's between them and their parents. The majority of creators who make 18+ content explicitly state MDNI and block those younger than 18 if we discover them trying to interact with us. That is the most that we can and should be expected to do.

[INSERT CHARACTER] would NEVER act like that, it irritates me when people write them as OOC. Fanfiction is by definition NON canon. The only people who truly know how a character is supposed to act are the people who created those characters. But I want to add on to this, there are plenty of times in which a character acts entirely OOC even in fluffy or vanilla fanfiction. Every writer is going to have a different interpretation of how a character acts or thinks - and yet it's only really complained about when it's dark content. These characters are not real. Leon cannot be upset or hurt by people writing dark content about him, because he doesn't exist. Part of the fun of fanfiction, at least in my opinion as well, is justifying certain things within the context. Many dark content writers will and do explain why the character became how they are or why they think that way using canon as context - not that I think it's required because fanfiction can be whatever you want it to. The point is, dark content or not, not everyone will be on the same wavelength as you about your favorite character.

Even if you're a victim of SA or other crimes, you should get professional help, not read dark content. This is a very bad take in my opinion. Mental health care can be incredibly hard to get. Reading fanfiction is free, it's harmless. But genuinely, imagine you're a victim of a heinous crime, and you're already struggling with feelings regarding it - to then be mobbed by people online telling you that you're weird and wrong for having the feelings that you do? This is also in league with my first point, but having these feelings are actually VERY normal. This is a healthy way to process the emotions in a safe environment where no real person gets hurt, where you can leave whenever you want. Stigmatizing these things does hurt real people though.

You're hurting other people who're victims of these things. Look, if a fic is not properly TW then I fully understand. Every victim will have a different experience, and while some may be ok with dark content, others won't. So if you open a fic expecting it to be one thing and it's another, that's shitty. But tags are there for a reason. If you see something marked Noncon, and that's triggering for you, no one is expecting you to read it. And here's the thing with tags/tw's as well, everyone's trauma is different. Something that one person might not consider dark content, or is generally considered innocuous might trigger someone else. If you are one of those people who think even seeing the trigger warning could be harmful to people, then that's a prime example of WHY you must curate your own experience online. Block certain words, tags, and phrases to make sure you don't see them. But that's on YOU to do, not people who create content. Their only responsibility is to warn you about the contents of the content they've made, their responsibility stops beyond that point. You know what DOES affect real people besides the stigmatization of their feelings or kinks? Harassing them. Leaving hate comments, telling people to unalive themselves. These affect the mental health of the real people behind the content that you don't like. I've seen death and rape threats SENT to dark content writers.

Dark content in other forms of media. It's interesting to me that the majority of discussion around dark content comes from people criticizing fanfiction specifically. Take horror movies for example. The Saw Franchise, we'll say. Do you think the creators of that series want to enact those horrible things onto other people? Do you think they want to be the victims of Jigsaw themselves? What about people who watch content like that? You probably don't think that they do. There's TONS of movies, music videos, even horror novels that have incredibly, and I mean INCREDIBLY dark dead dove content - and yet most people understand that the appeal is in the taboo. That it's fiction. That people who consume THOSE forms of media don't want to participate in those things but do enjoy consuming that content. But when it's fanfiction it somehow becomes a problem.

Entitlement and demand of fandom content. In addition to all of the above, there is a major uptick in people complaining about the content within fandoms some not even relating to dark content. "There's too many stories where reader acts like X." "I hate how so many people characterize this person because that's now how they would act!" "Why is there so much smut? Why can't there be more of {insert what I want}". This is FREE content made by people who do this stuff as a hobby. No one owes you content, and no one HAS to write the way you want them too. If there's tons of content like that, then it's because it's popular. Perhaps your version of a character is in the minority opinion, and that's completely ok!

What's the solution to all of this discourse?

Be the change you want to see! If you feel like there's too many x reader fics where the reader doesn't act how you want - then write it the way you want. Do you have head canons about a series or character that you haven't seen discussed before? Make that post yourself! If you don't feel there's enough fluff in the fandom - then create some! And if you don't want to make content yourself - request it, commission it. Interact with your favorite writers! Encourage them, don't demand. Talk with them about their work, leave comments, and reblog, reblog, reblog!! Being a part of the discussion and interaction is the BEST way to help the community thrive. Surround yourself with the content that YOU want, curate YOUR experience. Block every dark content writer you see if it helps. Go into your Tumblr settings, block words, block tags. Don't set yourself up to be upset or bothered by the content you're getting. Even if you read the above and you still think every dark content writer is a horrendous, awful person - the best thing to do is still block them. Block their content. Harassing them and complaining on it will NOT stop that content from existing. But you will continue to upset yourself by not curating your own experience.

~~~~~~~~

If you made it through all that, thank you for reading. I want to add that my blog WILL continue in the future to have a mix of both dead dove and regular content. I also interact with other dark content blogs, so if you're someone who followed me because of my "regular" fics and want to unfollow/block me, I'm ok with that. <3

#nexyspeaks #Leon Kennedy x reader #resident evil #fandom culture #resident evil writers #resident evil x reader

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ms-demeanor · 9 months

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since twitter has become actively hostile to its users, so they came to tumblr, and reddit has become actively hostile to its users, so they came to tumblr, what do we do now that tumblr is becoming (more) actively hostile to its users? i’ve been here for over a decade so i know tumblr users are the type to cling on despite everything and revel in undoing every change, but i’m so tired of the way this website breaks the way it fundamentally works in order to appeal to new users. the twitterfication of the site seems so much worse than when people jumped ship after the porn ban, and even then, only small communities (and twitter) cropped up as solutions. you might not be the person to ask for a definitive answer, but i figured a tech blog might be interested in considering - what do we do when there’s nowhere left to go?

Okay so, I mean this very seriously: how has tumblr meaningfully become like twitter?

I don't personally find the sidebar view obnoxious and it seems to me like just another layout change that's pretty typical to tumblr. New users are getting signed up with a bit more emphasis on algorithmic feeds, but that is still very easy to change (MUCH easier than on any other social platform) and the algorithm has been there for everyone for quite a while, we just typically don't notice it because a lot of long-term tumblr users don't go into the "for you" feed.

I don't think that tumblr *has* fundamentally broken the way that it works to appeal to new users. My dash now is still very much like my dash in 2019, and still very much like my dash in 2018 (though much less pornographic). Reblogs are still reblogs, likes are still likes. Replies, for all that they seem like they've been around forever, are new and good and I think they work well. I'm irritated that the notes menu doesn't have a "view all" option but I think that's a worthwhile tradeoff for an easy way to see tags.

I *do not* understand why tumblr has broken linking back to previous reblogs but I don't think that's out of an effort to act like twitter; it is a bizarre choice that I dislike and don't understand but I also don't think that it has fundamentally changed the way the site works and i mean you've been around long enough that I'm sure you've had the same experience I have of going into the notes of a post and randomly clicking until you found a version that you wanted to reblog without a bunch of bullshit at the bottom. Tumblr has always kind of sucked, this change DOES suck but it doesn't suck in a way that is particularly novel or insurmountable. (For instance, I think this change sucks MUCH LESS than when they made posts with links invisible to the search, that is something that is genuinely bad that has been long lasting but doesn't get brought up much in lists of the ways that tumblr has gone wrong)

Tumblr *is* changing, but I think it is changing more incrementally and less terribly than other parts of the internet. I also hate the floating clown, the login walls, the dash-only view for blogs (you can't archive it and I HATE that), and - to an extent - the new lightbox on mobile. And I dislike that less than I thought I would but I don't think it's a fundamental change that necessarily impacts my interactions with the site - it *adds* a feature that I don't care for but it doesn't *break* anything that I require to have a good time on tumblr - in that way I think of it very much like Live. People hate Live so much and I find that perplexing because it is so easy to simply ignore it.

But that's not really your question; that's just some stuff I want people to think about because as much as tumblr has changed in the last two years it is nowhere near as fucked up as the recent things that twitter and reddit have pulled.

So, as to your question: where do we go?

Well. Not to be an extremely old person on the internet, but damned if I don't miss email lists. And forums. God I miss forums. Neither of those things has all the bonuses of platforms like twitter or reddit or tumblr or facebook, but they were great ways to hang out with people you liked on the internet.

The internet is changing. I can feel it, you can feel it, I'm pretty sure we're all like cattle in a field lifting our noses and hearing some distant rumbling and becoming slowly aware that it's almost time to run. There's a coming stampede and it isn't here yet but you know it's on its way. You're not imagining that, that's how things feel right now and there are a shitload of things contributing to it.

Things like SESTA/FOSTA and KOSA (which has not passed yet but is a big red flag waving on the horizon) have been eroding away the way that users on various platforms can function. Some platforms have consolidated in ways that harm users; some new platforms have popped up and shaken up the map of the internet; some platforms are being torn apart brick by brick by owners who don't care about the users. It kind of seems like people are actually looking up and realizing that advertising is A) bad and B) doesn't actually work and I think we're running straight toward another advertising-based crash like we saw in 2017. It feels like all the desperate things that tumblr is doing is just rearranging deck chairs on the titanic as the internet as a whole starts to sink into the ocean.

Honestly, I don't think it's that bad. I think it *feels* bad, but I think we're looking at a slow whimpering death of the platforms, not a bang. I think tumblr is going to hang on at least for a few years and I think it's going to end up like livejournal and myspace, which both still exist as websites that are recognizable as updated versions of the sites they were in 2004-2010. The thing that I think would really, honestly hurt tumblr in a fundamental way is if it moved to a more algorithmic and data-sales based model of advertising, and I think that's still pretty distant. I think Automattic is aware that killing the chronological feed would be the one unforgivable sin that would cause a mass exodus and a final crash, and I think when we see that, when we can't just scroll through the feed and see what our friends did that day in order of when they did it, that's when the party is over here.

But that's still not answering your question.

So, where do we go? What do we do? Well, for now, I'd say it's a good time to get contact info for your friends across various platforms. Get email addresses, get phone numbers.

Now is also the time for you to set up a personal website. NeoCities is currently the best place to do this, though it takes a lot more effort than just starting a blog on tumblr. I think that various oldschool blogging sites like Wordpress and Blogger/Blogspot/whatever the hell the google one is are a better place to have your emergency backup than a more platform-y platform if you aren't up to doing something with NeoCities.

If you've got the ability to do so and a group of people who are interested in the same core subject, set up a forum. There's a decent amount of off-the-shelf forum software out there and a text-and-small-images forum isn't prohibitively expensive, but it's never going to be huge and you're never going to have the kind of spread and virality and random connections that you would on a platform with millions or billions of users.

If you can't set up a forum, setting up or joining a discord server for your friends is a decent enough option at the moment, and may be a very good option for people who are looking to keep their interactions more private.

But yeah i think right now is a great time for people to start setting up their own personal websites, to start visiting actual webpages again, to start bookmarking their friends' websites, and to start collecting contact info that isn't tied to platforms.

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chrollohearttags · 4 months

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long winded ass post I contemplated not writing but did it anyways. read if you’d like or ignore lmao.

so I feel as though this kind of goes without saying but a lot has changed on tumblr and the vibe has shifted a lot, sadly, not for the better either :/ I thought about this for a while and although last week, I was not posting any new content due to the strike, I’ve decided to step away from writing in general after this month. I could sit here and go on a tangent about how it’s the ‘algorithm’ and ‘dying fandoms’ but to me, this boils down to the fact that I refuse to exhaust myself to be unappreciated + disrespected. That’s not to say I’m ungrateful to everyone who reblogs and comments on my works all the time because I am incredibly grateful! I love each of you and I look forward to reading your tags/thoughts. However, it’s not lost on me that the anime fandom in general is becoming shrouded in toxicity and many of us are being pushed away. We’re in an age where people are seen as content machines and not humans so others feel entitled to their art and feel no need to be kind, understanding or empathetic to that person’s feelings. I’m not wasting my time trying to teach people manners that they should’ve learned a long time ago. I refuse to share my craft with people like that. And to say the quietest part out loud: y’all don’t want black writers around, PERIOD. One scroll through the dash shows that much. As someone who’s written primarily for AOT (not changing btw) and specifically the black side of the fandom, it’s almost laughable at the extreme lengths that ppl have gone through to see it be erased. And I don’t mean getting fics hit with labels or reporting (that failed so they switched to plan B.) since I began back writing in 2020-21, it was obvious that it was the most popular among black girls and I remember ppl telling me to write for them. Hell, it’s the sole reason I even watched. Needless to say, I fell in love with the show and it holds a special place in my heart. However, I realized I didn’t need any of the original material. Not only that, in all the years I’ve been writing, it’s the first time I’ve seen so many black girls resonating and happy with a group of characters. It was the first and only time I’ve seen stories where I didn’t feel as though them being a black character was a hidden secret or toned down to appeal to others (no shade). It was in my face and proud, even if I didn’t personally resonate with the reader or concept of the story. It still felt good coming from a fandom where I was literally the ONLY black writer in it. Fast forward and I clearly see that now, it’s not welcomed. We could sit here and blame it on non-blk (yt) having the problems but that’s a load of bullshit and the only enemies we have are one another. It’s been other black writers who have littered the tags with discourse abt the same stupid topic to avoid new fics being seen. It’s been other black writers who have switched fandoms when they were no longer the ONLY ones bc coexisting is just too damn hard apparently. It’s been other black authors who have made it blatantly clear that they are only interested in seeing and creating stories that are palatable to other races so they won’t be perceived in a negative light or to be seen as one of the ‘good ones’. Even down to not using black reader tags or avoiding coded language. So much so, they are comfortable laughing at anti-black rhetoric being pushed on other apps so as long as their new favs are not the brunt of the joke.

I’m not here to tell anybody how or what to write. I’m not here to say you ONLY have to like one show but what I am saying is that i will NOT be spending hours and days agonizing over a fic for it to be minimized to a joke for a bitch on TikTok. I will not spend the little free time I have trying to crunch and finish a fic for it not do well but watch y’all pile in my mentions to argue over nonsense. And I won’t sit here and watch y’all purposely try to run other black writers away bc they don’t fit ur aesthetic. Fiction is fiction and whether you resonate with it or not, it’s expression. I’m a boring ass country bumpkin from the middle of nowhere, Florida who’s got social anxiety, chronically ill, neurodivergent and is in bed by 10:00. I don’t smoke, never had sex and I literally never leave the house unless I’m grocery shopping. I never have and never will live the life of any of my characters, even the most tame ones. But I write for EVERY black girl and want everyone of them to be seen. The one space where that seems to be allowed is obviously not welcomed anymore. Arguing and trying to defend ourselves against people who are committed to misunderstanding us is pointless. Minimizing us down to ‘baby mama’, ‘hoodrat’ fics, simply bc you no longer like certain characters (many of which you all were writing for not too long ago) is quite frankly clown and coon ass behavior. Watching y’all become enraged by tropes that are used by ever race, every fandom, etc but turning the blind eye bc it suits ur narrative is fucking hypocritical and laughable at best.

I’m not insecure in my writing. Never have been and never will be. I know I pour everything I have into creating the best work I can and it’s for that reason that I won’t allow it to be treated like trash. I have over 250 drafts in my Google docs and best believe, that’s where they’ll stay until I see fit. Although I know it’ll probably mean leaving the last place I have any sense of community and social interaction in general, it’s not worth coming on here angry everyday in defense mode. Its not worth getting out of my character over and I rather just not be around if it means I have to play mean girl. My mind may change and all of this will just have been me getting shit off my chest but as of right now, this account will be archived come February 28th. Thank you to everybody who’s supported me this far and gave me a safe space. I love all of you so very much and hope that we can enjoy the rest of this month together 🫶🏾 🤍

#cherry chats 🍒#tw rant #tw discourse #tw long post #happy black history month lmao #writing #fanfic writer

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sleepysnk · 7 months

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there’s some things i really wanted to talk about especially regarding my account and tumblr as a whole, so i decided to finally make this post as a way to sort of vent out my feelings on some things.

i’m not gonna lie, tumblr has become a very different place from what it was. i started creating content 3 years ago and it’s gone through so many changes (much expected). however, i don’t think tumblr has really changed for the better, especially when it comes to content creators. this used to be a really safe space for me to come on and create works for fandoms that i enjoyed, but recently, that safe space hasn’t felt, well, safe anymore. there is constant discourse everywhere on this platform and i’ve found that many people here are just extremely bitter? it’s almost like it’s become a mean girl center and it makes it difficult to interact with others.

obviously, this doesn’t go for everyone. i’m not trying to come at people specifically or cause issues, but i have seen my fair share of problems with people on here and some of it is just completely ridiculous.

next, i’d like to discuss the elephant in the room and that’s the lack of interaction/support to writers. it is just mind blowing to me that we as creators have to BEG our followers to reblog or even send us asks. obviously, some people are new to tumblr and don’t understand it’s algorithm, but there are people on here who just simply chose not to reblog for some reason?? it’s not only discouraging, but it puts less confidence in writers and then we aren’t motivated to create content. i’ve said this before, but there is no reason why a 2k note fic should have only 100 or so reblogs. likes mean nothing on this platform. it’s not Twitter. i genuinely have gotten so tired of repeating myself that i don’t even say it anymore because i know it won’t be acknowledged.

i understand people have lives, i do too, but it isn’t hard to send an ask to a writer about literally anything. i think the last time i had an anon ask was weeks ago and i genuinely get disappointed when i ask for interactions just to receive nothing? no one is obligated to speak with me or send me asks by any means, but a little “hey! how are you?” goes a long way. i probably sound ridiculous, but it’s just how i feel about the matter.

another thing that bothers me is when a writer doesn’t write smut or suggestive content, they hardly get any interaction. i’ve seen it myself before and i’m not sure why people just ignore greatly written fics?? i understand that smut is the main appeal. trust me, i 100% get it, but fluff writers hardly get any attention and some of the best fics i’ve read weren’t even smut related. i’m not saying every person here has to read fluff or angst fics by any means, but it makes me sad that people write these fics to hardly get any interaction because it isn’t smut content. the least y’all can do is reblog it.

to discuss my account, i honestly don’t really feel the most happy here. i don’t have as much motivation as i used to and i have contemplated removing my account, but i have some great fics i’d rather not have be deleted. i might start a new account for a fresh start, but i’m still not 100% on it.

and if you read this till the end, thank you! i probably sound like a whiny baby but i just wanted to express some of my feelings because it’s been weighing on me a lot recently.

#summer rants #uhhh #yeah!#lowkey needed to speak on this #also emmie thank u for being motivation for this #!!!!

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pro-sipper · 4 months

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What do proshippers generally believe about shipping real people? Stuff like creator x creator or celebrity x reader?

That it falls under the umbrella of "you should be allowed to write anything you want". Once again, it's not my personal thing. There's no real life pairing I read for, and the whole "blank x reader" is not appealing to me at all.

But I have no problem with people writing that stuff, or knowing it's out there. I saw someone a while back say that it's basically just writing about another character, and I agree with that. No matter how much a creator posts or how open a celebrity seems with their personal life, we're still only seeing a tiny snippet of their lives. We have no clue who they are when the cameras aren't recording because we just don't know them. And whatever someone chooses to write about is mostly stemming from that particular persona that they happen to put on for the world and that's it. It's completely separate from our reality because they're basically just writing about another made up character

The problem I have, and it's what I imagine most proshippers also take issue with, is when people start blurring the lines between fiction and reality. To me, there's a world of difference between posting something on ao3, and speculating on secret relationships in the comments of someone's youtube video. Or between talking about something on tumblr, and tagging the person directly on twitter.

I just don't understand people who condemn rpf and talk about how gross and invasive it is, but think it's funny to tag celebrities on twitter to bring up (what they think is) cringe-worthy fanfic tropes that people have written them into. Or people who print out fanworks to shove into an actor's face at a meet and greet and ask them what they think about it. That's where the lines get crossed, to me.

I think ao3 and tumblr still have an air of mysticism to them. A little secrecy, a little privacy. In the sense that someone in the public eye would have to put in a little work to find this stuff for themselves. They'd have to go to the site and search themselves up to find anything. As opposed to just about anyone in the world being able to force this content in their line of sight with a simple @ on a site like twitter.

So to me the problem isn't that this content exists. The problem is when people don't know how to keep fandom stuff private. Write all the rpf you want but remember at the end of the day these are real people, not your blorbos. You don't know them. It's inappropriate to say these things to them personally (which yes, also includes tagging them on twitter or in the comments of their videos). But it's also inappropriate to run up to them with other people's content just to say "look what these FREAKS wrote about you!!" And I think people either forget or just genuinely don't care about the latter.

#proship #proshippers #pro ship #proshippers please interact #proshipper #proshipping #rpf #real person fiction #asks #anonymous #sip rambles #i know its so much crazier in this day and age than when i was a kid #with social media and stupid stuff like tiktok basically being a requirement of the job it seems #and celebs posting constantly and having a quick way to interact with fans #or content creators whose entire brand exists on social media apps like tiktok #who seem to be posting 24/7 and broadcasting their whole lives #and i know most of those types of creators mostly have younger followers who probably do very easily get sucked into #feeling like they know that person like thats their friend #and i also dont think that type of creator really discourages those feelings bc... they want followers and $$$#but idk just write your fic and read it or dont do either and just leave celebs alone irl please please please

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wenellyb · 1 month

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Random thoughts on Bucktommy and Buddie

Please bare in mind that I'm only sharing my personal opinion and that I'm always open to discuss.

The discussions I've had over the past couples of weeks have been very interesting and I wanted to add my 2 cents.

Before season 7 episode:

I'm a causal viewer of 911 and I'm also on Tumblr so of course, I know Buddie, but I've never really shipped it... I can understand the appeal and I think the ship has potential but I never felt like the writers ever intended to go there. And I'm not a big fan of non-canon ships.

If they had gotten together, however, I think that I would have enjoyed it.

What has always bothered me was the behavior of some Buddie shippers who would complain about queerbaiting on the show, when there were already several Queers characters in it and one character (Hen), who's part of the main cast. I always got a weird feeling that those shippers didn't care about Queer characters if they weren't White. There is also a spinoff of the show, 911 Lone star with Queer characters who are also part of the main cast.

To me, the fact that Buck and Eddie never got together was a writing decision, not queerbaiting or anything like that... the writers had decided this wasn't the way to go for Buck and Eddie's chatacters, because if they had wanted to write a storyline between them, they could have.

I've seen a lot of people being happy about Buck being confirmed as Bi, and I get it. But to me, it was confirmed he was bi in the 911/911 Lone Star crossover when TK told Buck he had a boyfriend after Buck asked him out. I was just waiting for a storyline to confirm it. Obviously, I always thought the storyline would involve Eddie, but I was wrong.

After Season 7 Episode 4:

I follow some 911 accounts so I knew something was happening before the episode aired and I saw a preview of Buck seemingly being jealous of Eddie leaving with Tommy and I thought... this is it, this is where the writers are going to confirm Buddie. Buck will realize his jealous and realize he has feeling for Eddie or something like that.

I was very curious so I tuned in for that episode and imagine my surprise when I realized at the end, that the jealousy wasn't about who we thought and all this time the writers had been planning a storyline with Tommy.

So to me, it doesn't look like the writers are planning a Buddie storyline. Otherwise they would have prepared it gradually after the Buck and TK's discussion.

That doesn't mean it won't change in the future, writers and showrunners can change but I have never noticed them introducing a storyline that could lead to a Buddie relationship.

Everytime I see a post "proving" Buddie, it's always showing something friends or best friends do (hugging, being affectionnate), even Eddie making Buck Chris' legal guardian is something a best friend could do.

I'm not saying that they couldn't be romantic in another context, but there hasn't been any indication that the writers are planning a romantic plot for Buck and Eddie.

The writers decided to go there with Buck and Tommy. They're treating their story like a romcom, with the kiss, the hearteyes and everything. Buck is obviously into Tommy and being ready to tell the world about him.

That's the storyline the writers have decided to give us and it's a very nice one.

I know a lot of people are expecting Tommy and Buck to be temporary but to me that's wishful thinking. It wouldn't make sense to have Buck invite Tommy to his sister's wedding just for them to break up a few episodes later. If a breakup is what the writers had in mind, they would just set up another normal date.

Shipping goggles are ok, I have other ships for which I have shipping goggles on and for which I'm not very objective.

What's not ok is trying to ruin the fun of Bucktommy shippers who are trying to enjoy this beautiful storyline but can't go in the tags without seeing a post about the ship's impeding break up.

#bucktommy #evan buckley #tommy kinard #eddie diaz #buddie #911 spoilers #always open to discuss this as long as you're not urde #rude*

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bcacstuff · 4 months

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Where's the video of him and the men at the party before and after the blonde fan and her friend tried, without success to lure him from? Don't you have it or are you choosing not to post it?

Well well... it took me some time to figure out and puzzle together what on earth you are talking about Anon, as I had no clue...

But the dramas and innuendos this fandom seems to be able to create out of nothing still amazes me after all this time.... 🙄

I posted a shitload about the event, pictures and videos, and Tumblr wasn't kind at me that day and took ages to upload and publish a video. It was quite impossible to post all, you have to make a selection and at some point, enough is enough. However I never left anything out on purpose. Let that be clear.

Now first the video where all the drama is about, at least that's what I think you mean Anon

First of all, the woman that interrupts his conversation with persons he is talking with, is not a fan. For the people not in the known, the afterparty took place at a bar near the Kursaal they especially built for it, they divided the room in an area for VIPs and the rest of the room was for fans. It was only divided by a red cord and fans could (and did) stand right behind it to take pictures and shoot videos from what happened on the other side of the red line.

So the woman who interrupts his conversation, who you can clearly see has this bracelet for the VIP area, seems to introduce him to the blonde woman she was talking to. He shakes her hand and says Hi, and starts a conversation with them. Now that's really all really there is to it. The person who took (and posted the video) clearly took it from behind the red line like many others took pictures and videos from there.

Then it seems some felt it necessary to outrage about somebody recording a conversation he has. Well, I don't know, I'm quite sure there is nothing wrong with my hearing, but with that loud music not a word of the conversation can be heard. you would need a specialist in lip reading to know what he says. I can only recognize him saying Hi to the woman he is introduced to.

Further more, he's at that party and many people want to speak with him. He mingles, and gets interrupted a lot of times when others take an opportunity to get his attention. Nothing really out of the ordinary here.

That all said, there is a group of fans who never seem to get enough. Pushing themselves in front of queues, trying to get a pic with him. But when they have it, it isn't even enough.

I've heard a number of stories from different people how people went to his hotel, which wasn't that hard to find out. And standing outside to see when he leaves or arrives is one thing, but going inside, waiting in the lobby when you don't stay at the hotel crosses all lines I think.

I've heard that after the star event they came back to the hotel and it was chaos with a lot of fans inside the lobby. They had to call in extra security so Sam and Eleanor could safely get to the car. Now I really think this behaviour is embarrassing. For him and for the fans as well. He was out at the star event to watch, on the RC and even when there was not that much place and time to give autographs and take a pic, he did what he could and stayed nice and calm. But at some point I did hear him say in a video, 'back off'. And rightfully so.

Really people, just behave and think about what you do. I can understand everyone wants a picture, but you surely understand he can only do as much as he does. So try to behave, and when you already have a picture, why not let the space to others instead of getting another one and another one at all costs.

And this isn't only at this event, but we've seen a number of times now how people get into his space. So consider this an appeal to behave with all respect.

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piaduarte · 2 years

Text

How I manifested all my desires into reality

I assume you've been in this community long enough to realize some posts contradict themselves, to the point where a thing as simple as manifestation has become something much more complicated;

"You have to repeat affirmations all the time, until you sound like a broken record!"

"No, no, you have to daydream all day, don't be afraid to be delusional!"

Everything is just so confusing. Maybe your feed is filled with this crazy success stories, like mine once was, and you sit there amazed while you read them and you ask yourself "Why can't I do that?", like I once did. Well, my dear reader, you are about to change your own life.

So, let's get started!

Ok, so it all started a couple of days ago. I was mindlessly scrolling through my feed, reading these posts I told you about. Just a normal day. I'd been into manifestation and spiritualism for a while, and I was incredibly addicted to Tumblr out of the sudden; these posts, these stories... They were just so interesting and so visually appealing I just couldn't bring myself to stop reading them.

Well, the thing is, I could spend entire days — and I did actually spend them — like that, just sitting in the couch and getting all kinds of impressed by all these stranger's abilities to make their dreams come true. But after a week or so I got kinda tired of all that. You know what I'm talking about:

"Why can't I do that? I'm so stupid, they said it should be easy" - old me

"Maybe I'm just losing my time with this" - yep, old me again

NO.

Did you hear me? I said no. Can you believe all these stupid thoughts almost made me give up in my journey for the second time? I can see it all so clearly now; my brain was rotting thanks to these stupid thoughts. And, my dear reader, what do we do about things that hurt us and keep us from becoming the person we want to be? Exactly; we get rid of them. So, after that, I knew I had a choice to make.

Should I keep making myself feel bad, or should I embrace my power and finally become the manifestation master I was born to be?

Enough with the negative self-talk. Enough with letting people manipulate me and treat me like I'm an inferior. Enough being the victim. I'm the master of my own life, and I'm a God. I manifest whatever I want into my life because I can and I'm able to do so. And once you realize that, there's no coming back.

So now I want you to get clear of what you want, and breathe. Is it a new job? Is it new friends, a new house, maybe even all at once? Fine, you got it. It's done. You can relax and you can forget about it, because it is already yours. I know you've probably seen this sentence like hundreds of times already, but after actually understanding it, you realize it's true.

Look outside your window, step into your balcony, go for a walk. All these things you see, you believe them to be real, right? So let me ask you a question; why would your desire not be as real as those houses, as those buildings? When you close your eyes, you can see it in your mind; your new workplace, your new friends, your new house. You can see all those things. They are real too.

Not so long ago, I learnt about the 3D and the 4D: as you probably already know, the 4D is everything you imagine, your desired reality, the insides of your unique and beautiful mind; the 3D is the "reality". But actually, it's the exact opposite: the 4D is your only reality, and the 3D is actually some kind of mirror that projects everything you want. The insides of your mind. You can see and feel all your desires because they are real, and no matter what, now that you've imagined them and you've decided you want all those things, the law is obligated to grant your desires to you and you only. There are no exceptions.

Your desires can and will come true.

#manifesation #manifesting #master manifestor #how to manifest #self concept #spiritualism #spirituality #law of manifestation #law of attraction #neville goddard #higher self #affirmyourreality #desired life #desired reality #loa #law of the universe #law of desire #law of assumption #law of belief

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carriesthewind · 2 years

Text

Hello tumblr! I am here to discuss some drama today! (Oh dear god I can't believe that this is what got me to finally join tumblr.)

As you may know, AO3 recently suspended a writer’s account, and the writer isn’t happy about it. They have made several public posts about it, including a very long post responding to the letter they received from AO3 in response to their appeal to lift the suspension. Now, I’m not particularly familiar with this writer. I’ve heard their name enough to recognize it, I know I have heard some rumors about them – some good, some bad. But I have never read their writing or their tumblr before, and I didn’t have any preconceived opinions about them.

But since this drama has entered my orbit from multiple sources, I decided to do a close read of their post responding to AO3. I do this fairly regularly, as a mental exercise to practice making myself a more careful consumer of media in general, social media in particular. But close-reading this particular post made me angry enough that felt the need to write up my analysis and share it.

A few disclaimers and notes before we begin:

First, I am just going to refer to the person under discussion as the “writer” – I include this person’s user name in a screenshot, so am not hiding their identity, but I’m not doing this to target them. This is an analysis of two of their posts, not of their life or online activity outside of the post.

Second, I am going to be giving the writer every benefit of the doubt I can, and am starting my reading by assuming they are acting in good faith.

Third, I am going to take the text under discussion under its own terms as much as possible, without referring to outside content. I am going to be analyzing two posts by the writer; the long post they made in response to AO3’s reply, and a shorter post that they made that long post in reply to. The exceptions to this will be the TOS of AO3, since they are central to the dispute, and a few other posts by the writer on the same subject. I will be using those other posts only when I need them to understand the writer’s argument in the main post we are looking at.

Let’s begin.

There’s two things that jump out at me from this paragraph right away. First, if we look at AO3’s TOS, there is a clear path for filing an appeal, and there is no right to a response from being pinged on Tumblr or responding to messages through other venues. There is also no deadline for the team to respond to an appeal. In fact, the TOS repeatedly note that they cannot guarantee a speedy response. Given the size of the archive, five days seems far from unreasonable.

However, this waiting period would absolutely be frustrating, and it is entirely understandable that the writer would be frustrated and angry. Speaking personally, I know that I have angrily tried to contact a company via non-official means when I felt they had wronged me and were refusing to respond to my official messages. The writer isn’t doing anything wrong here by reaching out this way and being upset at the delay – but AO3 isn’t doing anything wrong by not replying to these messages, either.

Second, this sentence, “My legally copyrighted property under the terms of Fair Use is still in kidnapped status, which is not actually legal”? This sentence is nonsense. It is so nonsense that whenever I look away my brain rewrites it. It is so nonsense I am not going to even try to break down the very many ways it is wrong, because that would double the length of this monster of a post. I will instead just state: by agreeing to AO3's TOS, the writer has agreed to allow their account to be suspended under the TOS, and the writer’s work still belongs to the writer and can be removed (more on that later) and reposted (or not removed and reposted) anywhere else.

The important things about this sentence for our close reading are as follows: 1) the writer is using a bunch of legal jargon in a way that is irrelevant and inaccurate (the alternative, which is worse, is they are lying and they know it); 2) as a corollary, the writer is talking confidently and forcefully about the situation in ways that do not accurately describe the situation (either out of ignorance, confusion, or a deliberate desire to mislead); and 3) the writer is using charged and exaggerating language to describe the situation.

Number 1 will be important shortly; for now, just keep it in mind.

Number 2 doesn’t necessarily imply bad faith; as noted, they could be talking out of ignorance or misspeaking, or some combination of both, due to the emotionally charged situation. Even though they haven’t lost their content (because they haven’t), people’s writing is very important to them; it is understandable that someone who has lost some control over the distribution of their writing would feel upset! (Please note that this is true regardless of whether the suspension was appropriate, justified, or correct - punishments hurt, by definition!) Rather, it is important because it makes clear that even if the writer has best of intentions, the way they are writing about this situation is not entirely accurate. It is entirely possible that this is the only thing about their situation that they will be wrong about - especially since legal rights and issues are extremely complicated and most people struggle to fully understand them. However, it is still an early indication to keep our eye on, moving forward. (It is also worth noting that this kind of legal misrepresentation is extremely commonly used by people who are NOT acting in good faith. This alone is not enough to assume bad faith - again, legal issues are complicated - but it is something to keep an eye on when reading posts like this.)

Number 3 is referring mostly to the use of “kidnapped” to describe the status of their works. This is not remotely accurate, for reasons which I will dive into more later. It is, however, highly emotionally charged language that indicates a couple of possibilities, any or all of which may be present. First, it could indicate, like the last point, a writer who is (again, understandably!) upset and is expressing how the situation FEELS to them, even if that feeling doesn’t match reality. Secondly, it could be the writer trying to using metaphorical language to get the reader to understand how serious the situation feels to them. Third, it could indicate a desire (conscious or unconscious) to appeal to the reader’s emotions over their logic, so they will be more likely to go along with the writer’s characterization of the situation.

The overall impression from where we are starting is this: we have a writer who is (again, understandably) extremely upset at a suspension that may or may not be justified and appropriate - so far we have no evidence either way. We have likewise no evidence that either party is acting inappropriately. However, we do have indications that the writer appears to either not correctly understand, or is (accidentally or on purpose), mischaracterizing at least some elements of the situation.

So, let’s move on to the long post.

We start with the knowledge that we do not have AO3’s whole response; there are sections that are left out that may or may not be relevant. This isn’t necessarily bad or wrong - there may be lots of good reasons not to include the full text. However, it is worth keeping in mind when we are assessing the situation.

More important is the description of AO3’s letter as, “full of fun jargon.” We will review the provided text ourselves, but AO3 generally does an admirable job trying to use as little jargon and legalese as reasonable possible, and I would include the provided text of the response in that assessment. Still, given that is a formal response to a TOS violation appeal, it does use a lot of formal language and some legal language.

However, this is an interesting complaint for the writer to make, given Number 1 above (I promised we would come back to that!). It’s a sharp contrast for the writer to use lot of legal jargon to complain about AO3 and then turn around and promptly complain about AO3 using jargon. Again, this isn’t necessarily a sign of bad faith. It is entirely possible that the writer, as described above, is confused and upset and using language they think they understand (but don’t) to express their feelings, and since they don’t understand legal language, they see the AO3 response as including a lot of jargon. However, using charged legalistic language themselves while characterizing their opponent as using “jargon” is another flag to keep an eye on. Again, in the best case scenario, this is someone who is clearly quite (reasonably!) emotional and whose characterization of at least some aspects of the situation is questionable.

This response by the writer is….confusing?

The writer seems to be arguing that punishing them for failing to comply with the TOS makes them unable to comply with the TOS right away so therefore…people shouldn’t ever be suspended for commercial content violations? I don’t think this is what the writer is arguing, because it’s not reasonable (and in some of their posts, they make it clear that they don’t believe that), but I can’t make any other sense of this paragraph.

According to their TOS, if AO3 finds a sufficiently serious violation, it can hide or delete violating content. But based on the previous “kidnapped” comments, the writer would presumable be upset (is upset?) if the works were altered or removed from public view by AO3 unless they specifically asked them to. So I’m not sure what the writer would want AO3 to do in response to a commercial content-based TOS violation.

This first quoted paragraph is being positioned by the writer as indicating some problem with AO3’s process, either in general or in this specific case, but so far, there is no actual evidence of that.

I also want to note here – this paragraph seems to be confirming that the TOS violations were valid, and the writer is just disputing their seriousness, not their existence. But to be fair, I checked some of their other posts on the topic to confirm this reading. Although they dispute the interpretations of some of the reported violations as incorrect, they do admit that at least one of the reported violations was accurate.

We are not provided this mitigating information, but the writer will include some arguments later that would seem to be the mitigating evidence, and I will address it then. I will note here - it is very common for an aggrieved party to say that a system that punished them ignored evidence they presented. While sometimes this is true, often the system reviews the evidence they present, and decides not to rule in their favor anyway. Here, for example, we see that AO3’s response notes that the suspension will not be lifted unless the writer furnishes mitigating information “that would have changed our initial determination.” So AO3 might have ignored the mitigating information, or they might have reviewed it and determined it would not have changed their decision (e.g.: they already knew about it, it wasn’t determined credible, it wasn’t determined relevant, etc.). Also note that we, seeing the mitigating information, could think that AO3 was incorrect if they reviewed the proffered mitigating info and did not rescind the suspension, but that is not the same as AO3 ignoring it. We, as readers of the post, don’t know which of these options occurred - and neither does the writer. While it is understandable that the poster is not giving AO3 the same kind of good faith that we are trying to give them (aggrieved parties don’t have to assign good faith to people they believe have wronged them!), it once again colors our understanding of how the writer is characterizing AO3’s response.

This starts with an interesting claim! That is, that AO3 acknowledged in the letter that the writer has “a history of immediately complying.” This isn’t in the excerpt of the letter that we have. Because this claim is immediately below the above excerpt from AO3's letter, it appears that the writer is misconstruing the statement, “While we appreciate your willingness to remove the violating content immediately, you must first serve your suspension to its completion before you are able to edit your works.” This sentence isn’t claiming the writer has a history of complying, it is clearly responding to the writer’s stated willingness *in this case* to edit their content to comply. If the writer is deliberately misconstruing the letter this way, that’s deeply troubling, because it shows they are both trying to make AO3 look bad (see the rest of the paragraph) and twisting their own bad behavior (note that they here acknowledge past instances of breaking the TOS) in a way that makes them look good, actually (“assist[ing] the Archive in keeping things to their TOS standard”). This is really, really, bad behavior if it is deliberate. It would be a deliberate lie to preempt their audience’s recognition of their misdeeds and frame themself as a victim of a malicious actor.

HOWEVER. That is not the only interpretation of this claim. The writer is not necessarily deliberately misconstruing the letter - again, they are reasonably upset at the situation, they’ve stated they have found the letter to be full of jargon (and thus potentially may be struggling to parse some of it), and it is possible they are responding quickly without carefully reading the letter. Alternatively, they have stated that they are only posting certain sections of the letter - it is entirely possible that AO3 acknowledges “a history of immediately complying” somewhere else in the letter. Now, even in that case, the writer is clearly attempting to reframe evidence of their past violations as evidence of their victimhood (promptly removing TOS violating content is the bare minimum of what should be expected by an AO3 user). Again, that may be a genuine (and natural!) emotional reaction, but we continue to see the thread that the writer’s characterization of (now multiple) aspects of the situation are both inaccurate and biased to see themselves as victimized.

Which leads us to the poster’s response to the next excerpt.

Here the writer acknowledges again that they have at least one previous TOS violation. They include an except from AO3’s letter that clearly shows that they were explicitly told that failing to remove commercial promotion material from their account might result in a temporary suspension. Noticeably, although they have and will continue to frame themselves as the victim of an unfair process: 1) they do not dispute they were previously in violation of the policy, and were let off with just a warning. 2) They do not dispute that since that warning, they continued to have commercial promotion material on their account. 3) They do not dispute the content of the warning. 4) They do not dispute that they received or understood this warning.

Instead, the poster disputes that the warning…wasn’t official enough? They do not indicate how or what AO3 should have done to make it “official” - likely because it is extremely clear that this was a previous warning, and spelling out an alternative would make the absurdity of this complaint clear. It is at this point that we can no longer proceed assuming that the poster is writing solely in good faith. While we cannot assume they are deliberately trying to mislead their audience or that they do not have legitimate complaints, they are at least deeply in denial and stuck in a victimization perspective and that must inform our reading of their post.

Their second complaint with this section is just as ridiculous and telling as their first. AO3’s abuse policy is NOT a 3 strikes policy, as it is explicitly designed for flexibility, so that an account may be let off with multiple warnings, or may be suspended at the first violation, depending on the assessed severity of the violation. Nothing in the quoted section of the letter contradicts this flexibility. In fact, it directly supports the existence of this flexibility, by writing that further TOS violations “might,” not “will,” trigger a suspension. The writer is just wrong, and we can see they are wrong by simply reading the text they are replying to. This can only be read as either a deliberate mischaracterization of both the letter and the TOS, or as someone so far in denial that their characterization of the situation cannot be relied upon and no information they give can be fully trusted without external supporting evidence.

(As a note on my own biases in writing this analysis: this is where I personally ran out of patience with the writer, although I have tried to maintain a more even tone in this analysis.)

The writer may still have legitimate critiques of AO3’s actions and response (for example, they can still argue that such a flexible system is bad in general, or that there were mitigating circumstances that should have caused the suspension to be lifted/not imposed in their particular case), but they are not, in this section at least, making such a legitimate argument.

Their critique of the non time-limited nature of AO3’s response to TOS violations also indicates a fundamental misunderstanding (whether genuine or deliberate) of the *problem* of a TOS violation, especially of a commercial promotion TOS violation. AO3 is an *archive* - it explicitly exists to preserve fan works and provide access to them. It doesn’t matter, from AO3’s perspective, when a commercial promotion is first posted - it matters that it is currently accessible. A commercial promotion violation does not occur solely when a user posts it - it is an ongoing violation that continues to occur for as long as the promotion remains accessible. Furthermore, the structure of AO3 is such that it relies on individual users to maintain their works in compliance with the TOS. We can imagine an archive that works differently. This hypothetical archive could have works reviewed by archive staff before being accepted into entry in the archive, would not allow works to be modified except with the approval of staff, and would allow works to be modified by staff without the users’ knowledge or consent. However, 1) this is not the TOS the writer agreed to when they posted their works on AO3 and 2) given this writer’s expressed desire for control over their own work in this very post, this would not be an archive the writer would want to use.

People can still have legitimate disagreements about whether and how the date that a violation was originally posted on should affect sanctions for that violation, and disagreements over whether the sanctions were appropriately applied in any particular case. It isn't a problem for the author to assert that they think AO3's policy should be different. It is a problem for them to mischaracterize what the policy is and mislead their audience about why a policy exists.

Once again, AO3 is describing a policy that is entirely reasonable. However, in this section the writer finally moves on to the potentially legitimate claim that the policy is being enforced in a draconian way. They advance two arguments to support this claim.

This is actually one of their better responses, because their arguments, while very hostile, are potentially legitimate complaints that support their claim of draconian enforcement in their case! (Please note I am not asserting their complaints are accurate, however - more on that in a moment.)

The first claim is that an official AO3 staff member previously checked every one of their existing fics to try to ensure that they did not violate AO3’s TOS. The writer relied on this assurance going forward, so should not be sanctioned with a suspension. This is a part of the post that, in the interests of good faith, I will discuss with the added context of another post by this writer, since the claim isn't fully or clearly expressed in the above post, and it is their best argument in favor of their mistreatment. I am also going to assume that this was the mitigation that they referred to submitting to AO3 and claim was ignored.

If the poster is characterizing this previous interaction correctly, they have legitimate reasons to be upset, and I would agree with them that this is the sort of mitigating evidence I would expect would cause a suspension to be lifted if I was the person making decisions.

…here’s the problem, though. While I would agree with them that this would be a draconian application of AO3’s polices…it wouldn’t be a violation of AO3’s stated policies in any way. If the AO3 abuse staff member made assurances that to the writer that all their posted content was clear of TOS violations, that would be counter to AO3's TOS, which makes it clear that it does not do pre-emptive reviews. It would be legitimately frustrating for this writer to find out that the promise it relied on was incorrect and be punished after relying on it. However, it is impossible for me not to see that from AO3’s perspective, if this staff member really did give this assurance, it means that the writer was given an assurance of preferential treatment over other users. There is a good argument that to continue to give them preferential treatment (that is, to rescind the suspension based on the preferential treatment) would only compound the harm. It’s a legitimately tough situation for both parties to be in. I ultimately continue to see no misconduct on the part of AO3, except potentially in allowing an official staff member to give misleading preferential treatment (I say potentially because we have no further information about what actions AO3 took to correct this harm/punish the staff member), and also understand why the writer is reasonably furious at the archive.

…or rather, that would be the problem, if we could continue to read this post solely in good faith. Unfortunately, by the time we reach this explanation, as stated above, we know that the writer is either deliberately lying in this post, or deeply in denial leading to them mischaracterization the situation. Because of what we have already seen, we cannot take their description of the alleged staff member or their actions as accurate without at least some external supporting evidence.

We are given no such evidence, either in this post or in any of the others I have reviewed. Rather, the provided evidence contradicts it, albeit subtly. Remember that we noted how the poster did not dispute the content of the August 2019 warning AO3 sent them? That warning clearly stated that failing to remove all commercial promotion from their account might result in a suspension. That warning, from AO3 (not a single independent staff member), along with the clear TOS statement that it does not do preemptive reviews, puts the responsibility for removing the violating content squarely on the writer. If that warning wasn’t “official” enough for them to take it seriously…why were they willing to rely on the word of a single person who was breaking AO3 official policy by purporting to prescreen content?

While I lost my patience at the previous paragraph, as noted above, this response is why I actually decided to write and post this analysis. Casually reading this post, the writer’s description of events here sound deeply sympathetic and would lead a casual reader to see them a victim and AO3 as a villain. It is natural (and a good instinct!) to trust people when they tell you they are being mistreated. Unfortunately, sometimes people who feel that they have been mistreated are just seeing the consequences of their own actions catch up to them.

The second potential legitimate complaint is the implied assertion that their violation was not really serious, and should not really be considered a TOS violation (“figurative, imaginative caffeine.”) Unfortunately, the writer has already admitted repeatedly, both in this post and outside of it, that they were in violation of the TOS. Thus, instead of this being a legitimate complaint, it is another indication that the poster is inappropriately mischaracterizing themself to their audience as a maligned victim and AO3 as a villain.

Oh hey, AO3’s letter is reiterating everything I just explained about prescreening! I wonder how the poster will respond.

I’m trying not to be too snarky here, but that is a really damming failure to respond.

So instead of talking about the substantive issue at hand, let’s address this wild change of subject, I guess.

This is again an instance of the writer portraying themselves as a victim, either because they are deliberately trying to maliciously mislead their audience or because they truly believe it. Just to be clear - they are claiming that they are being targeted because someone noticed and reported admitted TOS violations on their “two…most well-know fics in two major fandoms.” If they are claiming they are being targeted by someone acting in bad faith, and therefore the (again, admittedly legitimate!) violation reports are a form of targeted harassment, wouldn’t they have a much better claim if the violations were reported on fics with very low hit counts (so that someone would be less likely to randomly find them)?

And a side note - if these TOS violations were on the poster’s “most well-known fics” in “major fandoms,” that goes directly to the relevance of their ‘the violations were posted a long time ago’ mitigation claim. A well-known fic is more likely to be currently receiving continuing views (remember, the harm the violations are causing is based on people seeing them), and an author who is continuing to get hits/kudos/comments on that work would presumably be aware of its continued popularity, and thus should be aware of the need, after receiving a warning, to make sure to personally review it for violations.

Again, we’ve already addressed this issue repeatedly. So I will just note here that the writer is claiming that it is “actually fucking ridiculous” not to grandfather in active TOS violations. Imagine making this argument in any other context. Imagine an author has a book that they wrote 14 years ago but is still selling. Imagine someone notices this year, for the first time, that the author has extensively plagiarized copyrighted material. They alert the victim, who brings a suit, and the publisher stops publishing the author’s book and refuses to publish any of their other book as well. Does the writer think it is “actually fucking ridiculous” for the publisher to cease publishing the author, simply because the author was able to avoid detection for so long?

(Since I’m not doing much analysis here, let’s talk instead about what the purpose of this portion of the poster’s response might be. I’m putting this as an aside, because this isn’t strictly part of the close reading, and it is absolutely not it the spirit of good faith I am still trying to use. We’re going to look at the effect of this section in context. Let’s start by analyzing the use of the term “you” in this post. When the post began, the writer used “you” to refer to themself (“no matter how willing you are to fix it…etc.”). In the same section, the writer switches to using “you” to refer to AO3 (“if you have fans…”). In the third section, they start by using “you” to refer to AO3 (“You guys are the ones…”) and then switches in the next sentence to directly address the readers (“if any of you following me”). This switch isn’t a casual fluid switch like it was previously - instead, it is positioned in a sentence directly warning the readers that AO3 might come after them next. In the following section, they don’t use the second person, but they do imply (nonsensically) that someone is targeting them with these TOS violation reports. We then catch up with the above section - “they can and will go after you.” Note that the post starts directly addressing the reader at the same time that it builds up an escalating threat. This creates a sense of fear and camaraderie with the writer, positioning reader and writer as “us” against a malicious “them” who is not just targeting the writer, but the readers as well. This makes the reader more sympathetic to the writer, and more likely to believe their claims; after all, “you” know you’re not breaking AO3's TOS, and if “you” did, it would be an accident. How ridiculous for AO3 come after someone like “you” - someone who has broken the TOS multiple times in the past in the same way and has explicitly…been…warned…hmmm…how much like “you” is the poster, actually?)

Anyway,

I’m going to reiterate what I said after the writer’s response to the previous warning letter: what should AO3 have written to make this a warning that the writer would accept as legitimate? This is a bit longer and more detailed, but substantially the same as what was reportedly written in the previous letter. In that context, the poster said it didn’t look like an official warning, it wasn’t clear or serious enough. In this context, substantially the same content in substantially the same tone is recontextualized as too serious, a threat that secretly means AO3 already plans on banning them permanently. To borrow a phrase…"this is actually fucking ridiculous."

Again, if we are reading the post in the best possible light, this is someone who is so emotionally distraught that they have descended into paranoia and are unable to correctly characterize the situation. Alternatively, this reads like someone who deliberately characterizing AO3’s responses to best achieve their own ends. They want this suspension to appear unjustified and unjustifiable, which means they can’t have received clear previous warnings for the same TOS violations they are suspended for - so there was only one warning that wasn’t clear or official enough to give them any real notice. Now, they want to appear as a victim who is being targeted by a system that has it out for them, no matter what they do - so substantially the same warning is a threat that indicates an intent to ban them regardless of what they do next.

And we are back to the beginning: not understanding the first thing about the law and using (at this point I feel safe in saying) deliberately charged language to describe the situation.

(And mischaracterizing the text that is LITERALLY RIGHT IN FRONT OF THEM – AO3 isn’t saying it will take a week to respond! It is giving you a week to comply once your suspension is lifted! What do you want it to do, impose further sections if you don’t comply within 12 hours?!?! I mean, if that’s what you’re asking for...)

AO3 is not taking control of the writer’s works. It has control how it chooses to display and store works that the writer has granted it permission to display and store. This is all very clearly laid out in the TOS.

We’ve already addressed that the writer does NOT know that AO3 did not investigate their alleged mitigation evidence. The writer is once again positioning a failure to agree with their position that the suspension should be lifted as a failure by AO3 to read or consider their evidence.

I’m not going to address most of the specifics they list, because I would basically just be repeating myself over and over again with more details and this analysis is already long enough. These specifics might be important, except that the poster has already admitted that they did violate the TOS. Even assuming they are characterizing their email, AO3’s full response, and the “Not Actually Violations” correctly, it doesn’t matter for the purpose of whether they violated the TOS (again) and received a legitimate suspension.

The only specific I will address is their blatant lie at the end: the TOS specifically bans all commercial promotion, NOT just self-promotion. The writer is explicitly, obviously lying - not just misunderstanding, not just mischaracterizing, flat out lying.

We have something in common, finally - I’m really offended too.

So I looked at some other posts for more context about this comment on deleting a work, just to make sure I wasn’t mischaracterizing: the writer apparently, fed up with AO3, wants to delete their works prior to the end of their suspension. Their “inability” to do so appears to be a major basis for their “kidnapping” claims above. This, once again, might be a legitimate complaint - AO3’s TOS does confirm that a suspended user retains the rights to remove their work (subject to certain data storage exceptions to meet AO3’s obligations).

Unfortunately, the poster’s next sentence makes it clear this compliant is not legitimate. The TOS are explicit that the way a suspended user can delete their works is through contacting AO3 administrators. If the poster had requested such delegations and been refused, AO3 would have violated their own TOS. Instead, the user states they just asked AO3 to lift the suspension. There is zero evidence that they asked AO3 to delete their works, and instead are mischaracterizing AO3’s refusal to lift their suspension as a refusal to delete their works, both in this post and elsewhere. I feel like a broken record at this point, but once again, they are mischaracterizing a very clear situation to make themselves look like a victim and AO3 a villain.

An appropriate gif of a petulant, spoiled child to match this closing paragraph. I don’t think I need to say anything else.

#AO3 drama #little tin cults #edited to add a read more #apologies to everyone who reblogged it before that #edited to fix the typo in the second paragraph that I can't believe I never noticed before

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genderful-ghoul · 9 months

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So this happened… (Important petition for the Ghost fandom!!)

REBLOGS NEEDED!!

AO3 now includes fics where lead guitar ghoul’s character is called “Sodo” in searches for fics where they’re called “Dewdrop”.

For fans that call the character “Dewdrop”, this now means the “Sodo” fics are unavoidable. For those that call the character “Sodo”, this now means the “Dewdrop” fics are unavoidable.

To be honest, grouping the tags is just uncomfortable and clumsy for everyone. You ever search for a fic and the results show fics where a character you know by one name goes by another name, and you can’t easily just filter those out? And when you try to read them, the flow of reading is disturbed if you’re not used to it? AO3’s tagging system is revolutionary and very widely used by most users on the platform. By combining these tags, it renders the tagging of this character useless for those who are looking for a specific name.

For those that feel uncomfortable hearing the character called “Sodo”, these fics aren’t only annoying to see, they’re disturbing. A good number of ghesties feel uncomfortable calling the character they write/read about (often in intimate settings) a name the person playing them goes by in their personal life. They feel this breaks the widely accepted ghestie code of keeping the nameless ghoul characters and their headcanons separate from the people who perform onstage.

Personally, I am uncomfortable. For one, the idea of having to scroll past a bunch of fics that are too clumsy for me to read is a stressful thought. And, more importantly to me, I am a person who finds it uncomfortable when a ghoul character is referred to by their performer’s real name. I personally do not want these tags to be grouped, and I know I am definitely not the only ghestie who wants them to be separate tags.

Here is a poll petition. I am going to make an appeal to AO3 get these tags separated. The people who keep AO3 running for us are busy, and we understand that there are more pressing matters that must be dealt with. Our request may take a minute to get to, and we are okay with staying patient; but we do want our request to be taken seriously. One person writing to AO3 making the request is not going to be taken as seriously in this case. We need proof that the ghestie community as a whole wants this change for the management of our fandom’s fics. Please vote in the poll to show AO3 that the Ghost (Sweden Band) fandom wants the character tags “Dewdrop|Fire Ghoul” and “Sodo|Fire Ghoul” and any congruent tags to be separated from what is currently “Dewdrop|Sodo” to their original separate tags of “Dewdrop|Fire Ghoul” and “Sodo|Fire Ghoul”. By voting for either of the two options, you are signing a petition to enact the request bolded above. The poll ends in one week, but if we can get a good couple hundred votes before then, it will be sent earlier. Please spread this post as far as the internet can reach. We need the Ghost fandom to speak on this matter. We need everyone to work together to make change.

Formally written request:

The Ghost (Sweden Band) fandom wants the character tags “Dewdrop|Fire Ghoul” and “Sodo|Fire Ghoul” and any congruent tags to be separated from what is currently “Dewdrop|Sodo” to their original separate tags of “Dewdrop|Fire Ghoul” and “Sodo|Fire Ghoul”.

The tumblr post made by user @genderful-ghoul tiled “So this happened… (Important petition for the Ghost fandom!!)” details the current AO3 conditions which prompted the fandom to make this request, as well as an explanation of why the fandom wants this change.

A transcript of the email request I will send to AO3 will be posted here the day it is sent for full transparency to the fandom. Everything is so fancily worded because it is a formal business request, and AO3 needs to be able to fully understand the situation from an outside-of-the-fandom perspective, as well as be able to accurately locate the tags we want changed out of the millions of tags on the platform and accurately understand the specific changes we’re asking for so that they can get it right for us. I hope we all collectively agree that there are bigger problems in the world that need their petitions to thrive so that they can make change. Even AO3 has bigger problems than our tagging issues right now, so let’s be polite and understanding to AO3. This is a frustrating matter, but I guarantee that the reason the two character tags were combined was because someone outside of the fandom recognized that the two separate names were being used to refer to the same character, and assumed there was no significant difference between the two tags and believed that combining them would only make tag organization more efficient.

#the band ghost #nameless ghouls #ghesties #ghost band fanfic #ao3 #aether ghoul #cirrus ghoulette #cumulus ghoulette #dewdrop ghoul #mountain ghoul #new ghoulette #new ghoul #rain ghoul #sunshine ghoulette #swiss ghoul #papa emertius #participation request

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hella1975 · 8 months

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hiiii haha. hello. exceptionally awkward introduction bc idrk how to start something like this so let's just jump right in. im taking a break from this account for a bit. i know i said i wanted taob out before halloween and currently im fine sticking with that deadline, but if i decide i need longer away then i will take longer away. every time ive reassured people that id never abandon a fic and updates will always come eventually i never once considered that my writing and ability to feel safe and comfortable on this site would be actively taken from me, so im not even going to apologise. i dont want this either and more importantly i dont fucking deserve it. i dont know what it is in the past year, if ive hit a certain amount of followers or 'popularity' that's made it so the natural ratio of positive to negative interactions must in turn go up, but there's been a serious uptick in weird asks for me. the annoying part is that a very small amount of them are actually objectively mean and hateful, the rest are just weird and invasive from people who seemingly dont realise that's what they're being. ive reached a point where i dont care if the intentions are good. it's not my job as a 20 year old tumblr user of all things to defend the morality of someone who couldnt even bother to come off anon. unfortunately, after blocking only one or two anons, the weird asks have decreased substantially, which says all you need to know about the fascinating and exhilarating lives led by these people, but ive also gone on to turn anon asks off entirely. this is something i actively fought against doing and had to be pushed into by my mutuals (who have been the coolest people on planet earth during this entire thing). turning off anon was a big deal to me even if it sounds silly. i felt betrayed and like id been backed into a corner because it was so vehmently something i DIDNT WANT that to feel like i had to do it anyway for my own mental health??? that sucks. so even though ive 'fixed' the problem, im still kind of reeling and uncomfortable every time i come on tumblr. i hope it's just something i need time to ease because i'll truly be devastated if this becomes 'ruined' for me. tumblr exists as the only place in the world where i am honestly every facet of myself without shame or hesitation; losing that would be insanely harmful to me. and to the people who cant appeal to the actual human behind the post, let me put that in words you can understand: we wouldn't get any more writing 😦😦😦 riots and fires and sirens, i know. so yeah. to anyone who has sent me an anon ask and you're now wondering if you were part of the problem, im firmly of the belief that you'll know if you are. when i say 'weird asks' i dont mean 'you sent me a para about your personal life just to vent or ask for advice' or 'you sent me a really deep emotional compliment about the impact me and/or my writing has had on you' - i love asks like that, so much that i put off taking a break and turning off anon solely for the joy they bring me. im sorry that it might feel like you're being punished too bc of the actions of what in reality is a HANDFUL of weird people, but this is what i feel like i have to do to feel safe and not go insane every time i log in. love you guys, hopefully ill see you soon x

#seriously another shout out to my mutuals #id particularly like to say thank you to boom who's always right there for me no matter what's happening or how insane im being #and also everyone in our little discord that wound up having to make a whole new channel for venting #bc i was there so often like 'today's weird ask isssss.... telling me about my cupsize!! rip them to shreds!!!'#hannah and theo especially being there and pushing me to finally turn off anon. war is truly over #and of course rori bc the shamelessness u show when hating on my anon asks has been genuinely really cathartic #sometimes u really do just need a rottweiler mutual to tell random people online to kill themselves 😭#okay weird oscar acceptance speechcore gratitude over. i do just rlly love my mutuals #like i went three years not telling anyone about the worse side of internet popularity for fear of looking spoiled and ungrateful #so for the first time to open up about it and be met with outrage on my behalf and people saying in fact it's MORE fucked up #than i initially realised bc ive grown desensitised to it is. yeah cathartic i guess #they are singlehandedly reassuring me of the good this cursed app still holds #so everyone thank them and send them flowers NOW #okay im done i think. see you guys soon. i truly do want to come back asap bc like i said i NEVER EVEN WANTED TO FUCKING LEAVE #SOME ASSHOLES JUST HAD TO PUT GRENADES ON WHAT I ASSUMED WERE VERY UNIVERSAL AND OBVIOUS BOUNDARIES #if you're reading this like 'ohhh fuck i defo sent something invasive lately. i thought it was a joke/we were friends'#then 1) we arent friends if you're on anon. it immediately creates a power imbalance where you know me and any necessary context #but i have no idea who you are or how much you know about me. that's already a fucked dynamic #and 2) I HOPE YOU FEEL BAD. LIKE GENUINELY I HOPE YOU FEEL AWFUL AND HAVE A GOOD LONG LOOK AT YOURSELF #okay i think that's all. ta-ra lads??? how tf do u end something like this #ive queued this to reblog a couple more times throughout the day

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notablog9910 · 6 days

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Angela And Spencer

Hello, everyone. I'm new here, not just to Smosh, but a little bit to Tumblr as well. And I'm jumping right into the deep end, I guess.

Okay, the thing is I absolutely love the Angela and Spencer dynamic. As a friendship and an amazing duo. It's just important to remember that they are not fictional, they're real people, so I don't let shit get weird. Is the idea of them together appealing? Sure, it is. I just believe it's okay as long as no one is being weird, creepy, or obsessive about it, then having casual fun with it is cool. Just be respectful. That's one of the reasons why I was hesitant to make this post because it might come across as something more than what it is. Which is just me enjoying my favorite duo, having fun, and sharing that with others.

Okay, now that's out of the way…

Spangela. As I've mentioned, I love them very much and I feel like not a lot of people talk about them. Now, more and more people are seeing the light, though. I still feel like they're closer than any of us realize. I only found two awesome compilations of them on YouTube, which was very surprising to me as a new fan of Smosh, I thought for sure there would be more. The compilations are created by @fvckwluv and they are an amazing editor, go check them out if you haven't already.

And because I get very anxious and I don't know many creators here and I don't want anyone to feel weird about my request. I'm making this post with some of my favorite moments, hoping that someone will kindly volunteer and make a compilation and add just a few of these moments to it. @fvckwluv I'm looking at you. Kidding, kidding. No pressure, lol. But I'd still appreciate it if one or two of them happen to make it in your next video because your editing is awesome and you can make all the moments work together well.

Okay, now, I can't do all my favorite moments in one post because that will be even longer than this one. I know. But yes, this post can be even longer. So, I'm only gonna start with sweet and very subtle moments that I feel show they're close friends and know each other well, as well as moments where Spencer is just being sweet to Angela. And if this works out and someone makes a video, then I'll post my other favorite moments. I mean, they roast each other constantly and they quite literally attack each other in Don't Win Mario videos all the time, so that should be its own thing.

So, I'm not including popular stuff of theirs. For now, I'm simply focusing on the underrated, subtle, and sweet friendship moments. Mostly. I will also be adding time stamps as much as I can, so it would be easier for anyone who wants to check them out or if anyone just wants to make a video.

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(The Chosen Moose Master Multiverse):

I mean, that whole video is just incredible. Their interactions are fucking gold. But other than the obvious moments, I like the subtle ones. When they start joking about Spy Kids. At 10:28, Spencer says to her, "And you love traitors." I'm starting with this moment, so you can understand what I mean when I say subtle moments. Because this one shows that he knows her and I like that.

When Angela does her second finishing move. At 20:38, I love how Spencer goes, "Oh, my god, I just got chills."

At 20:38, when she mentions that they forgot a rule during their turn with the I don't want to get a boner joke. I love the way he's smiling at her, saying. "We can take it back." And she smiles, too. "It's okay, I just wanted to get it in there."

Also, the last like 6 minutes of the video where he's so impressed laughing and clapping while she annihilates everyone.

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(Do you pick your nose in public):

They were both hesitant and unsure about smelling good to others. At 19:54, when Angela starts talking, I just like the way he's looking at her, so that's nothing. Just a me thing.

And at 20:26, you can see them in the background nodding at each other reassuringly.

At 25:55, he jokingly asks Angela "So you're telling me if I come to you with a pimple…" I know Chanse answers him, too, but he was very clearly looking at Angela when he was talking, he also laughed at her chatGPT answer.

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Okay, look, I just love seeing how they progressed in their relationship over time. In earlier videos, you can so clearly tell that they're still trying to feel each other out a little bit, it's so sweet.

Two times there was a tie, and Spencer had to be the tiebreaker, and both times, he picked her. Again, it's nothing, but I like these videos. The worst dates ever? Video. Spencer joins at 30:43. And the Our Craziest Business Ideas so Far video, Spencer joins at 35:55, Spencer liked her idea there, as he should, it was great. And it was also really funny when they all leaned in to smell him because he smelled so good, apparently.

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(Don't Win Mario Kart):

This video was amazing, just because Angela won that shit, but also because Spencer was so hyped whenever she won, and at 8:57, he was like, "Oh my fucking god." And, 20:35, he goes, "Angela won again!" In like, an excited voice.

And when Chanse was teasing her and telling her that her hair smelled bad when she was dancing and celebrating, for whatever reason, Spencer says at like, 20:11 "Show us how you washed your hair." Which is just…a great thing to say for me to think about. Thanks, Spencer.

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(Is He Cheating? Reddit Stories):

I mean, the whole video is a favorite moment on its own. But of course, the 13:27 Nerfs are in the gun joke, the look he gives her after is one to dissect, for sure. The first time I watched it, I was like, "What's wrong with him? Why is he looking at her like that? The joke wasn't that bad." And then I thought, maybe it was an inside joke or something because his reaction was so…weird, but also really hot? But the slight smirk was just…yeah, it was something. I was confused, mainly. I love them.

And the exchange goes on for a while, too. After Shayne asks for clarification Angela explains, and Spencer turns back to her and says softly, "That's crazy." And then they both just exhale a little laugh while covering their faces. Yeah, I think about this a lot. But I also feel like it was just a moment with no explanation behind it.

At 14:07, When Shayne announces an update and Angela leans in excitedly with her mouth open, Spencer sees her in the monitor or screen thing. He sees her and smiles and then leans in with her, too, with an agape mouth. I liked that moment. Especially that small smile and chuckle he lets out when he sees her reaction before doing the same thing himself.

At 52:33, when Angela starts humming jokingly at the Reddit story and he joins, I love how long it goes on. She just keeps doing it while he's silently laughing.

At 53:42, when Spencer makes the uggo joke, and Angela laughs and explains it to Shayne, I think you can see him looking at the monitor again, smiling while she speaks. And of course, when they lean in together at the end of the video showing off their matching hats. Like, we get it, you're insanely cute.

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(Overcooked):

The glasses saga starts at 2:02. And from there, it's all hilarious and cute at the same time. But, an underrated part, is at 18:33, after Angela says "They're in my car." the first time. You can hear Spencer ask, "Do you want me to go get them?" And you can see Angela shake her head no. But it's very faint, though, you have to wear your headphones to hear him.

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Okay, now, live streams. Live streams are where they truly thrive and shine.

(Sharing YOUR SWORD AF fan art live):

Just one very small moment here and it's still a good one. People kept sending how sexy Angela is in the chat and how she is the sexiest woman alive, and I mean, they're so valid for that. Anyway, Amanda kept bringing it up to Angela because she wasn't wearing her glasses and couldn't read the comments. And then Spencer was like, "I told them to shut up." It was just so funny and so cute. The whole sexiest woman alive thing starts at 1:24, but the Spencer comment is said after the 2:32 minute mark conversation between Amangela.

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(Don't win Mario Party Charity live stream):

At 11:54, he helps with her controller.

At 15:53, he references the papa thing she did in the cards against humanity video, and then he does it throughout the stream, as they all do, consistently. But he does it a lot.

Side note: Spencer also clearly mentioned once that he was cracking up when Angela was doing that, but I can't remember which video he said it and it's driving me crazy. If anyone can remember, let me know.

At 30:08, Spencer got confused about winning/not winning and Angela kinda chuckled and touched and patted his arm and he turned to her smiling. Again, a small moment, but I live for those.

Like at 30:20, when Angela starts singing the words don't win loudly and Spencer just looks at her and smiles, and Angela just lightly smacks his arm. Yeah, these are my moments. Sigh.

At 33:24, after she tries to sabotage him and Shayne, Spencer's like, "You're not even playing. what if I fully put down the controller and choked you out?" And just joking about not realizing that she wasn't playing.

Another choking comment to Angela by Spencer.

(The other one was in the latest Don't Win Mario Party video when they finally got day at the races. Angela says that she almost googled Day at the Races that morning to see what it looks like. And Spencer just straight up goes, "I would've choked you out." Which is so unhinged. And I love him so much for it. Truly. Thanks, Spencer.)

Back to the stream, at 34:18, Angela almost spoils a video about who wins in it and Spencer goes"Shhhhh. They're not even gonna watch it now", and she's like, "They don't watch for the winners." And he replies, laughing, "I know."

But the cutest part is Angela still very softly whispers and apologizes to him about almost spoiling it at 34:37, and it's just so sweet and melted my heart, Angela is adorable. You have to use a headphone to be able to hear her, though.

(Her apologizing to him happened two more times, I believe. That latest don't win video, when they were both Mario and Luigi and on the same team. When they lost, she said, "I'm sorry, Spencer." And on Reddit Stories, she says I'm sorry after he teases her about the fact that she doesn't give him enough time to get to a joke.)

At 34:47, Angela screams about mini-games incorrectly and he, of course, laughs, and then at 34:56, he asks her if she's singing Taylor Swift and teases her and says, "Dude, you were down bad last night" and then I can't hear what he said after that, something Taylor Swift? Most likely, singing. And then Angela of course says, "Shut up." It was a nothing moment, but again, I live for those.

Since she gave her controller to Courtney, Spencer turns to her at 37:59 and asks, "Hey, do you wanna use my controllers?" Angela got confused about what he was asking and then joked that she was already playing and Tommy joined in, the whole thing was cute, okay? Don't judge me, lol.

45:48, Spencer suggests that they, "de-italian Angela and get her fixed." And they all joke about that for a while. But what I love is that When Angela agrees to actually do it at 47:11 because she's awesome, Spencer says "Okay, thank you." because he knows that what he suggested was a bit insane, and he should be grateful that she's just as unhinged as he is.

At 50:33, Spencer jokes about the cone again, "You know how it is with Angela, man, she keeps getting into the trash." I'm including this joke because Angela laughed so damn hard at it. I love her ability to laugh at herself so much. Nothing but respect for her, honestly.

At 52:25, Spencer makes a weird sex joke, and Angela's like, "Spencer…" And then he goes, "Look, okay, it's a work in progress."

(This could also be paralleled in the latest don't win Mario party video. When Spencer says, "I hope I don't come in my pants." Everyone laughs, and Angela says, "Don't laugh at that." You can see Spencer close his eyes briefly, shaking his head and smiling.)

1:01:56. Somebody in the chat suggests they fix Spencer for a certain amount of money. And Angela's like, "That's not gonna be enough." And he continues her joke, "We're gonna need a bigger boat."

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(Boozy Painting Anthony For His Funeral live stream):

At 35:23, Angela excitedly asks him to paint something on her cast, and his response is equally as excited, open mouth and everything. I love that he tries to give her the same energy she gives other people. As he said on who meme'd it, it's the best part of Angela and you can tell he appreciates it so much and he tries to give her the same reactions to the things she says. I've noticed it a few times now. (For example, it happened in the Lego stream as well when she was talking about submitting options for her school mascot, he was giving her an Angela-type reaction to a very tame and normal story.)

At 39:38, after he messes up her cast, I just love that he wanted to try again and was like, "Let me draw something else." And then proceeded to lean over and just paint for quite some time on her cast until Alex had to be like, "Spencer get your elbow out of Angela's painting."

Also, I like the fact that Angela was the only one who knew Spencer was planning a Chanse and Angela show special because they'd already talked about it with each other before telling anyone else. Well, I assume Alex knew as well. It starts at 1:10:10.

17:06 - 17:23. After Angela posts coffee memes on Courtney's Instagram. Spencer says, "I gotta see these." And then you can hear him and Alex laughing, and then Spencer says, "These are awesome."

48:11, Spencer says, "The way Angela says day at the races is really funny." This bit might be more on the teasing side because he does say she sounds like Bobby Hill or Peter Griffin, but still lighthearted teasing.

59:16: This. This. This moment. This damn second. I have no idea what's going on here, but the way he just came up to her and touched her arm and both smiled and stuff was cute as all hell.

1:32:09, Spencer got so excited when Angela agreed to show her drafts. And then after Shayne reads her Call Me by Your Name draft at 2:12:12, Spencer says after they're all done laughing. "I would've retweeted that shit." It's extra sweet because she's been saying all stream that her co-workers never retweet her.

Also, I love how invested Spencer was in painting her face. Not only did he go over to her to take a picture of her on his phone, but at 1:19:36, he said, "Like, I need to see some red in there." And then Courtney is like, "Stop giving notes, Spencer."

Now this is speculation and not confirmed, but also I feel like it's obvious enough. Angela mentioned that she wanted her drawing of John Pork to be on set or something like that, and now it's on the Smosh Games set next to Spencer's one-ball picture. I can only assume that the director of programming is the one who approved to put it there, so yes, that is now a part of their lore in my mind. It's incredibly sweet and I just love seeing her drawing in the background in videos so much.

Now onto the best moment of the stream, at 1:25:00, Spencer sweetly asks her, "Do you need me to hold your jacket?" Like, I'm sure there are places she could put it away safely, but no, he asked if he could hold it for her. It was just so…I love him.

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(Smosh Does Arts and Crafts live stream):

At 43:57, Angela lights up when she sees him and says "Hey!" so excitedly. And then at 4:42, when she asks him the questions they asked Alex, he answers with "you." At the fancy party question. Though, he did answer with a bit of hesitation, lol. But that could mean anything, you know. The thing is his voice was kind of shy, yet a bit deep when he said it. This is just a Spencer thing, I love his voice.

At 1:08:50, Angela messed up the RumPum name and everyone was correcting her loudly, she was like, "I'm kidding, I got your ass." Spencer then chuckles and says, "You're gonna start doing that any time you get something wrong. Oh, I got you."

And then when Spencer told her at 1:21:46 to "Tell him–tell Shayne about your plan." I'm weird, I know, but again, I like the subtle moments that show that they talk to each other and are actually friends.

(Again, this could be paralleled in the latest Don't Win Mario Party. When Spencer says he wants to do an all-day marathon, Angela goes, "I pitched a meal train like churches do." While Spencer nods. Again, it seemed like she was the only one aware he wanted to do this and he already discussed it with her, along with Alex, probably. I also like that he clearly includes her in the creatives and stuff, and cares about her input.)

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(The Ultimate Staring Contest Live Stream):

When Angela was stone-faced and not laughing, and Spencer was like, at 16:25 "I think you brought that energy to TNTL one time." Like, wow, he remembers that! I don't know why that is so, so, so sweet to me. It was an old TNTL, too. The only hard mode TNTL Angela was in, I think.

And then at 16:37, talking about her dark place, he was like, "So, wait, what, what are you thinking about?" He was just really invested and maybe, just a tiny bit worried, I think. This whole stream felt like he was trying to be so attentive.

At 34:19, Angela talks about how she was on Spencer's computer and he had to go to a meeting, and then she, Shayne, and Amanda pranked him with a fart video. But it was her idea, I believe, and she was the one who gave it to him during the meeting. Amanda mentioned that people were clapping when she left the room. At 34:58. I just love knowing these things about them.

At 1:11:10, when they didn't agree on Angela's pitch, Angela was like, "I'm just pitching, that's all." Spencer went, "No, no, it was…." you can tell he felt bad that he said no. Even Alex felt a little bad and was like, "No, no, you can stand."

1:06:48, when Angela says she feels like she's been getting too much into a dark place, and Spencer goes, "Yeah, I'm legit w–yeah." I believe he was going to say worried. And it's so sweet and also kind of proves that it's not just me, he was being extra sweet that stream. Like, when he defended her against Chanse's joke about her being cross-eyed at 1:13:39. "I've never seen that Angela, don't believe him."

At 1:11:36, Angela pitches another idea again. And Spencer says "Yeah, mirror staring, that would be fun." But then, at 1:11:43 she says, "Everyone hates my ideas." And Spencer goes, "I just suggested your idea." Again, it's nothing, but I think he could tell she was a bit deflated and it was sweet that he was trying to make her feel better.

And finally, at, 1:17:16, he asks, "Was going to your dark place worth this food…meal you're about to have?" The entire stream, it just felt like he didn't like the fact that she went there. But maybe that's just me.

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(The Beopardy Charity Stream):

It's just another parallel of Spencer backing Angela up when she says some wild shit like she did in the family vlogging video. At 39:12, When Angela says they can play two truths and a lie with piss in the guns if they reach 20k, he sweetly pats her on the back, and then when everyone was laughing and Shayne was like, "Fuck. We can never allow Angela to pitch anything ever again." Spencer says, "dude, for 20k…" And Angela goes, "Thank you, Spencer."

Also, when Keith announced that she won the whole thing, Spencer looked so happy and excited as he clapped for her.

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(Reading Reddit Stories From Our Crew Live Stream):

At 50:15 Shayne starts reading a story, and in the story, it mentions the person is only a freelancer at Smosh. And Spencer jokingly says, "Okay, Angela." It wasn't her story, though. But I thought that was funny and cute, the way she just popped into his mind, I guess.

My absolute favorite part is at 1:10:07 when Shayne asks about what they're most excited to see at Anthony's funeral. Spencer says he's most excited about Angela reading the chats as the vessel. Because that was his favorite part during Lisa's funeral. And then he went on applauding Angela on not only reading and figuring out the chats but adding her original takes as well since she's still kind of new to Smosh. The way he talks about her with so much admiration and respect. My heart.

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(The Lego Competition Live Stream):

This Stream is a Spangela stream and you can't convince me otherwise. I mean, they all kind of are, but this one…

At 14:08, they joke about building a hot and beautiful woman, and Angela just reaches over to touch him. I simply really love that moment.

And when he brings up that they were discussing their favorite Angelaisms the other night, he looks at her before he actually speaks. It's subtle, but he does, and why do I like that? I don't know, but I do.

53:54, when they were talking about a possible fake belly button ring for the chosen, I love how Angela starts joking in a British accent and Spencer smiles at her sweetly and joins in, laughing. Felt like an inside joke and I just love that.

26:30, Angela asks, "Do you wanna see mine? John pork. " Spencer goes, "You're getting there. Never give up."

At 40:42, when Spencer reads a comment about Angela and Chanse or Angela and Shayne playing fatal frame 4, Angela jokes, "Please, I've been begging, I've been begging." And then starts coughing heavily, he goes, "Do you wanna water?" The bare minimum, I know. Still, it's sweet, okay? He's like, the only one who's asked.

25:30 he says that his favorite shit was when she teased Amanda about saying something to her about the necklace during the criminal minds episode. I also like the fact that he brought that up when Chanse said something about Angela not slaying every day. And Angela was like, "You guys are just gonna sit there and let him do that to me?" I feel like Spencer's thought process was like: okay, let me bring up this moment where you were funny and how it was my favorite thing.

At 43:31, the sudoku thing. I love that he wasn't laughing with everyone else when Angela was kind of being self-deprecating about the sniper chess video and learning how to play chess. And he tried to make it better, you know, didn't fully succeed, but he did say she was great in the video and was a star. And even though he brought up that she whiffed the last two videos, he was talking about them in a positive light and that he loved them. "The werewolf ending and the criminal minds ending were the funniest shit to me."

I very much love the way he tried to imitate her. "Whoever playing the unsub better wake up." It was so cute and funny. And then when Chanse asks you said that? or something like that. Spencer replies, laughing," Something Angela fucking says." Again, in such an endeared tone of voice.

At 46:02 when Angela shows Shayne her garden, Shayne goes "Actually, I resp–I actually like that. " I love that Spencer kind of calls him out on being patronizing towards Angela a little bit and mocks Shayne and goes "Oh, you know what? I'm surprised." But the funniest part was that Spencer used the word "actually" with her when she first showed them the garden. "Oh, that's actually kinda cute." Said the hypocrite, lol.

55:20, the X-Men question. This moment is unreal. Don't even get me started on the fact that he stares at her for like, 20 seconds while smiling and shaking his head. My favorite part is not once does he open his mouth to call her out on her lying, he's just so endeared by her bit and just stays quiet to let it continue. And that look again at 57:55. He's just so…amused? Perplexed and amused? It's a similar smirk to the one he gives her after the Nerfs are in the gun joke. And yes, indeed, he does know Angela. He knows that she's blowing smoke and shit up her butt. Oh, how far they've come.

Okay, I'm done. For now. I had to cut and edit some moments out of this post, so…

I feel like most of these would be great to edit because there are a LOT of parallels. For example:

"Do you need me to hold your jacket?"

"Do you wanna use my controllers?

"Do you wanna a water?

"Do you want me to go get them (her glasses)?"

Just Spencer making sure Angela's got everything she might need. You get the idea.

I would also just love to discuss these moments, were you aware of most of them or is it just me? What are your favorite moments?

#does this post make me sound insane? It does doesn't it? Oh; well...#angela giarratana #spencer agnew #smosh #spangela #smosh games #smosh pit #angela giarratana x spencer agnew

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