#i have THOUGHTS and headcanons out the wazoo for these two and nobody ever talks to me about them | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

notallthosewho-wanderarelost · 3 years

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Real quick scattering of thoughts on Loki 1x02 and x03 before I watch the newest episode. I watched them pretty much at the same time so it’s a two-for-one post. Here be spoilers for episode 3! On mobile so no cut again, sorry.

Spoilers ahead. You’ve been warned.

Okay. In no particular order but attempting to start with ep 2 first:

Loki trying to get info on the Timekeepers and the TVA in ep 2 and being blocked by the most bored archive librarian ever was hilarious. The whole sequence of him trying to get her attention only for her to completely ignore him until he rang the bell was creepy but so funny.

Loki’s reaction to getting the details on Ragnarok made me so sad. :( Same, Loki. SAME. I’m also still gutted Asgard was destroyed and I refuse to even watch the movie ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ But him going to look at that in the first place made me wonder if maybe in the back of his mind Loki’s coming up with a plan to save Asgard? (Or at least, one version of Asgard in the multiverse.) I would love that. I want Asgard back in general and was hoping for Thor 4, but having Loki be the one to save Asgard would be SO fitting. He may be adopted but he’s still an Asgardian at heart, truly. Having Loki be the one to save Asgard would be a great way to show him finally acknowledging that and have all the Asgardians acknowledge it too.

We have an official population for MCU Asgard! 9719 people. That fits. It’s about twice the size of a pretty small suburban town. Asgard is SMALL. It just doesn’t have the space for a lot of people. It’s still a city, but Asgard the Realm has other things on it besides just the city, so it can’t have a huge population.

I wonder what the official population of New Asgard is when we see it in Endgame? And how many Asgardians come back post-Blip? This would really all depend on how many people made it through Hela’s rule and onto the ship during Ragnarok- and then half of them would’ve been killed by Thanos in the beginning of Infinity War. Would half of the remainder have been Snapped away at the end of IW, or would Thanos leave them out since he already halved their population? File under questions Marvel will probably never answer. Also file under “Thanos continues to be really bad at math.” (Should probably go look at the New Asgard sign again to check, but I don’t think it listed population.)

Loki annoying Mobius by messing with his salad was great. Loki annoying Mobius in general was great.

Loki letting the goats free in Pompeii made me think he might have a liking for goats, which means I now have a headcanon that Loki was friends with Thor’s goats as a kid and would sometimes let them loose to get their assistance with pranks. Thank you show, for cute kid Loki headcanons.

Tom Hiddleston probably had a BLAST yelling at people in Latin in character as Loki, and good for him!

Sylvie’s entrance sequence at the beginning of the episode with the fight scene vs the TVA set to “I Need a Hero” was amazing. I haven’t seen Shrek in a while but this might just reach the same levels of A+ “I Need A Hero” song usage as the Shrek sequence.

Speaking of the beginning of the episode, the Ren Faire setting was SO good. Great way to get laughs, and it made me want to go to a Ren Faire again.

The Roxxcart setting for the big encounter later in the episode made me flash back on all the times Roxxon’s appeared in the MCU. Two main thoughts: 1. I so want a Jane!Thor movie where the main villain is Dario Agger, evil Roxxon CEO and Minotaur. Preferably working with a better version of Malekith (from another universe probably) like in comics, because as much as I love Thor 2 my one complaint is that their version of Malekith was SO LAME. Especially compared to comics!Malekith. Plus an Agger + Malekith teamup would mean both the Nine Realms AND Earth are in danger, by definition. Thor 5 please, Marvel. 2. I really, really miss Cloak and Dagger and that show deserved so much better.

(Our) Loki’s perpetual insistence that he’s better and that the plot (pun intended) is about him is both funny and also a little sad- because he knows, or at least thinks, that if he stops insisting those things, everyone will stop paying any attention to him whatsoever. And he needs attention.

Poor Mobius probably felt so betrayed at the end of this episode. :(

Onward to episode 3!

This was by far my favorite episode so far. I LOVE Sylvie. I love her and Loki’s dynamic. I love that we get Loki talking to someone he considers an equal about some very personal things, and that Sylvie does the same thing with him. They understand each other in a way nobody else has. Because they’re the same person, sort of. I’ve taken to calling them “alternate reality twins” and that’s what I’ll keep calling them unless told otherwise.

They also annoy each other in a way nobody else can. And it’s hilarious. They look equally annoyed at the other not falling for their tricks and equally annoyed at needing the other’s help before they really start to bond and I LOVE ALL OF IT. I also feel like they adopt each other a lot quicker than either would be willing to admit, and then they’re annoyed at that! Loki yelling “you’re so weird!” at Sylvie made me go “OH they’re bickering like siblings!!!” and that was pretty early on! I’m an only child but that had peak sibling energy to me. Even them trying to trick and outdo each other had sibling energy most of the time.

Their earlier fight when they first get to Lamentis, before they realize where they are, had some VERY quality quips and also really had me wondering who would win in a fight between the two of them. Sylvie seems to have more physical strength, and she’s got a sword instead of daggers so longer reach, but Loki has skill and he has tricks. I think with his skill at magic (he can TELEPORT?! Probably only a few feet and probably limited by where he can see but that’s SO COOL!!! I don’t think we knew he could do that?!) Loki would likely run rings around Sylvie IF there were no people around for her to enchant. And assuming that she wasn’t able to set any traps beforehand, because Sylvie has proven well able to set traps to take down people who should be at a major advantage against her. Otherwise, I think Sylvie would win. She seems to have better physical training than our Loki, and if there were any people around for her to enchant he’d have to contend with them too. And if Sylvie could lay traps ahead of time, then it could go either way (you never can tell with a Loki, much less two) but I think Loki would probably lose. Loki is just as tricky as she is but that seems to be something she’s had a lot of practice in. Loki is more about confusing opponents with illusions and duplicates and talking his way around people. Sylvie sets traps instead, and is more comfortable/better at using brute physical force.

Speaking of enchanting, me while watching episode 2: “Hey, these mind controlling powers remind me of Enchantress’ powers!”

Sylvie in episode 3: calls her powers “enchanting”

Me: “OH.”

So Sylvie seems to be a composite of 3 characters. 1. Lady Loki, as in Loki when identifying as female. (There’s also that time from before they said Loki was genderfluid and a shapeshifter and back when Loki was still evil when he possessed Sif’s body and went by Lady Loki, but we don’t talk about that.) 2. Amora the Enchantress, a major Thor character/villain who uses magic to “enchant” people into doing what she wants-yes this is definitely a cringey “magically enchants people into loving her, consent-issues-out-the-wazoo” evil seductress stereotype in old comics, but it’s gotten better recently. And 3. Sylvie Lushton, the much lesser-known second Enchantress, who was a regular teenage human girl when after a Ragnarok (don’t remember which one, there have been multiple but this would’ve been early 2000s) Loki for shits and giggles decided to make her think she was Amora and give her the powers to match. She was on the Dark Reign-era (aka when Norman Osborn was in charge of SHIELD and the Avengers) version of the Young Avengers, the Young Masters of Evil, and that’s where I know her from. She’s a great character- she genuinely wants to do good and help people, but her brain is a bit messed up by the number Loki did on it, so she gets confused. I believe she’s currently in comic book limbo after Amora found out about her a while back, got pissed at her for stealing her name and her whole Thing, and tossed her somewhere dangerous on the World Tree while saying something about how if she can survive it then she’ll prove she deserves the name Enchantress. She sadly hasn’t been seen since as far as I know.

So each of those characters have similar characteristics with Loki’s Sylvie. Sylvie 1. Is a Loki who is female (Lady Loki), 2. Was presumably raised on Asgard and uses her magic to “enchant” people via a form of mind control into doing what she wants (Amora the Enchantress), 3. Is named Sylvie (Sylvie Lushton, Encanhtress II). Also worth noting that both Amora and Sylvie Lushton have blond hair, and so does the MCU’s Sylvie. All three characters also have green colored magic!

May turn the above bullets into their own post just for informational purposes. Also, when we said we wanted Enchantress in the MCU, this is not what we meant. Stop with the Monkey’s Paw-style wish granting, Marvel! (Looking at you, X-Men comics’ response to us wanting more Wanda.)

Anyway. Will round off with my favorite thing: everything on the train. Everything on the train was WONDERFUL.

Loki telling Sylvie about Frigga and how she taught him magic and then demonstrating the fireworks made me tear up. 🥺 Right in the feels. I miss Frigga a lot. I miss Asgard/the old Thor franchise in general a lot, but this is about Frigga. She was AMAZING and I miss her. Forever love the detail that Tom and Rene came up with the idea on the set of Thor 1 that Frigga is the one who taught Loki magic and fighting and how that informed their characters’ dynamic to the point of it being canonically discussed later. There’s a great Thor 2 deleted scene where Frigga talks to Thor about this exact thing. Frigga is such a fave of mine.

Sylvie telling Loki about her own past in turn made me very curious what her life was like and what the differences are. She seemed to have had a really hard time of it as a kid and I just want to hug her. (I also want to hug Loki, but that isn’t news.) Loki has had a very tough time, but really only after finding out he was adopted. He doesn’t appear to have had many friends on Asgard before (though I headcanon that he was friends with Lorelai before her exile, and since it’s my headcanon I imagine a similar situation with Amora, if not quite as close a friendship because comics Loki gets along better with Lorelai than her sister) but he at least had a family who loved him and who he loved, and a status as a prince that would’ve given him a good life and protection. Sylvie doesn’t seem to have had any of that as a kid. :(

“Surely there were some would-be princesses? Or perhaps a prince?” CANONICALLY BISEXUAL LOKI YES! YES.

Comics Loki is canonically both bisexual and genderfluid! Explicitly discussed on page, multiple times, and expounded on by writers too. (One of the most heartwarming Odin moments for me- yes, Odin does have heartwarming moments!- is when he’s telling his kids he loves them and he says something to the effect of “my son, my daughter, my child who is both.” The latter is Loki, the former are Thor and Angela. I might still be bitter over MCU Hela taking Angela’s place in the family sorry not sorry. This was in Original Sin: Thor and Loki, for anyone wondering.) I tend to default to he/him pronouns when talking about Loki because Loki tends to be male more in appearances, and also partly because it’s what I’m used to, but when Loki is clearly female I’ll of course switch to she/her. I have seen people use they/them pronouns for Loki too. I don’t think Marvel has ever said what pronouns Loki prefers though.

Speaking of which: I realize the “Sex: fluid” on Loki’s info card in episode 1 was probably foreshadowing Sylvie, but I kind of want to also read it as a nod to Loki being genderfluid. (Loki is also a shapeshifter, so gender would = sex in this case.) Whether it would be a nod to specifically comics Loki or also to MCU Loki is anyone’s guess as of now. We’ll find out I guess, or if it turns out to be strictly headcanon than it’s whatever floats your boat. :)

Back to the train scene!! Sylvie loudly protesting that she can’t sleep near people she doesn’t trust and then promptly falling asleep across from Loki a few minutes later made me emotional. ALTERNATE REALITY TWINS. Also VERY much a parallel to Loki falling asleep across from Mobius last episode.

Loki realizing that Asgard was really his home and his family really was his family only to also realize that he’ll never see either again and deciding to handle this by getting ABSOLUTELY DRUNK is SO ASGARDIAN OF HIM. I cannot. He even did the “Another!” *smashes glass* thing just to bring the point home.

Oh gosh, LOKI SINGING IN ASGARDIAN. FEEEEEEELS. I know, it’s actually Norwegian. I wonder a bit why they didn’t use Icelandic instead? Anyway, this was lovely and I love that going by the translation it’s a song of longing to go home, and it mentions Idunn’s apples of immortality. Apparently the full version of the song is going to be on the soundtrack and I’m so excited for that.

Loki’s metaphor of “love is a dagger” was actually quite good, he and Sylvie just lost the thread of it right at the end there. I wrote about this in tags somewhere, I’ll copy it in here later.

Edit: here’s an edited version of what I wrote on this post: This was a great metaphor until it got away from him. So close to the point (heh) and then they veered right away. Let me finish this for them: “Love is a dagger. It’s a weapon for far away and up close. You can see yourself in it. It’s beautiful. You have to give it to the right person.” So what this scene tells us about Loki is that he’s been hurt by love because it hasn’t been real. Or hasn’t felt real to him. Maybe he’s given it to the wrong people, or maybe he couldn’t tell who the right people were. (And if this is in reference to his family then I think he’s still too close to the revelation of his identity to be able to think clearly about the situation. Because his family DID love him! Even Odin. He just lost sight of that with everything happening.) Love is also about trust. And Loki doesn’t trust easily.

I really love this quote and this scene. Kinda want to do a “Love is a dagger” graphic of i ever have time.

I also wouldn’t be surprised if Loki and Sylvie come back to this conversation and come to a more satisfying conclusion. I hope that happens actually.

Sylvie using her headpiece against an opponent in the train fight instantly made me think of Wonder Woman. A+. Also, I haven’t mentioned yet but I love the fact that Sylvie’s headpiece looks exactly like God(dess) of Stories Loki’s from Agent of Asgard. Loki’s Ragnarok headpiece definitely had big AoA Loki vibes, but Sylvie’s headpiece is much closer- mostly it’s smaller, which is very Agent of Asgard Loki in general, but the one horn being cut off is specifically a God(dess) of Stories Loki thing and I love that they pulled from that.

Loki throwing the dagger and missing because he’s drunk was hilarious. Not good for Sylvie, but hilarious to watch. Don’t fight while drunk, Loki. Also, he threw “love” at Sylvie and I laughed when I realized that.

I didn’t realize until I saw a parallel gifset of it why Loki carefully going up to Sylvie after her scream felt so familiar- it’s just like how he went up to Thor after Thor overturned the table in Thor 1. The CONTINUINTY!! Absolutely amazing.

While trying to save the Ark Loki was probably thinking a lot about what he saw in the TVA clips of his own people trying to escape Asgard during Ragnarok and that hits kind of hard.

Loki apparently using telekinesis to stop the column from falling on him and Sylvie threw me off a lot until I saw another gifset that included the moment in Thor 2 (trailers only, I think) when he finds out Frigga is dead and all the furniture close to him breaks and flies away from him. The pose was even the same as when he stopped the column. I think he can sort of... push things away from him? (Almost like a Force Push 🤔) He seems to need to stop and tense up his arms while he does it though. And it doesn’t have the green effect the rest of his magic does, which is odd.

Speaking of Loki’s powers, I’ve said this in tags for sure but I’m so happy they’re FINALLY letting Loki hit people with green magic bolts. He does tend to prefer more subtle uses of magic, but I still can’t believe it took over 4 movies for that to happen. It’s kind of a no-brainer magic attack- probably exactly why Loki prefers other things- but you’d think he would’ve done it at least once after 4 movies.

I saw a post point out that by the end of the episode, Sylvie has lost both her headpiece and her cloak/robe thing, which makes me wonder if she’s going to get a new outfit by the end of the show. Or at least different accessories. I’m also curious if she’s going to take up the Enchantress moniker by the end of the show.

Finishing this with theme analysis and theory time:

The revelation that TVA agents used to be variants and were somehow reprogrammed makes so much sense. There’s something immediately shifty about the idea of 3 Time Keepers dictating the fate of everyone in infinite multiverses, and this just solidifies the hint that the Time Keepers are going to be the overall Big Bads. Which makes sense, narratively! But this shifts the TVA agents from villains to victims. Mobius gets to stay sympathetic and so does Sylvie, AND once the TVA agents find out about their origins it puts the same choice onto them that Loki has. They all have a choice now about who they’re going to be. They’re not who they thought they were, but are they going to let themselves be defined by what other people (here, the Time Keepers) think they should be, or are they going to be who they want to be.

This is exactly what Loki: Agent of Asgard is about, by the way. And I know I said in the last post that Loki’s greatest villain is himself, but I’m going to amend that because I didn’t say it quite right. Loki’s greatest villain is his evil self. Loki the god of evil, the Loki that is the villain. Loki (and all the other Asgardians) in Agent of Asgard is genuinely a god, and AoA tells us that gods are defined by belief- they are what people believe them to be. That’s how they exist. So because so many people believe Loki is an evil villain, the universe tries to twist him to fit that role. The plot of AoA is Loki trying to avoid that fate, to be better, be who he wants to be. It’s a meta story. It’s Loki trying to break free of the narrative he’s been part of up until that point. And eventually he manages to break the fourth wall itself and take control of his own narrative by becoming the god of stories. He controls his own story and it no longer matters what other people think he is, only what he thinks of himself. Nobody else gets to change or define him.

AoA’s villain is a future version of Loki that does go back to being evil. He’s basically the cosmic force- destiny, the narrative itself, etc- that’s trying to fit Loki into the “evil” box personified. Loki is seemingly taking that idea and subbing in a different personification for that same idea of lack of choice: the Time Keepers. We know from the Miss Minutes short in episode 1 that the Time Keepers want one timeline. We don’t know if that’s actually to prevent a multiversal war like the short suggests or if that’s just propaganda. When Loki tries to find out more about the war or about the beginning or end of time in episode 2, he can’t access those documents. Something doesn’t seem right there.

Edit: Also, in episode 2 Loki compares the TVA to Asgard by saying both the TVA agents and Asgardians are equally stupid. The reveal of who the TVA agents are adds a new dimension to that comparison. They both see themselves as guardians of the world around them, special, but really they’re no more special than the people they’re fighting to protect. Or in other words, they’re only as “special” (“heroic,” really) as they make themselves.

Also an edit: damn I just realized the continued stupidity of R*gnarok having Fenris and Odin in the same movie and Odin dies but get killed by Fenris. Asgardians have a saying about watching for wolves’ teeth.

I’ve seen the theory around that Sylvie might be a former TVA agent (which seems to be backed up by the midseason trailer I very belatedly saw, oh my GOD TINY SYLVIE!!!!! But also oh no tiny Sylvie at the TVA :() and I really like that. It makes sense. Maybe she went rogue because she realized the TVA is preventing people from choosing for themselves. Maybe she even knows what it is the Time Keepers actually want. Or maybe she’s doing this just for herself because she didn’t enjoy being brainwashed by the TVA and she doesn’t like being told who to be! That is after all part of “what makes a Loki a Loki,” even if she doesn’t use that name anymore.

I’m also wondering (hoping?) if maybe her being a former TVA agent could explain why she’s a mashup of different characters, instead of it just being Marvel mashing characters together because they can. This is mostly wild speculation, but could the TVA possibly have put multiple people’s timelines/memories inside her head? What if she’s in universe an amalgamation of a Loki, an Amora, and/or a Sylvie?

We’ve had some clips of what looks like a Thor 1 era Loki in front of the throne on Asgard- which looks different to me; maybe Loki redecorated? We’ve also gotten a shot of Loki in front of a ruined NYC skyline, including Avengers Tower. Maybe we’ll get an episode where Loki wins and we’ll see different timelines where he wins in different ways, until he realizes that this isn’t actually what he wants?

Whoops this got long??? Thanks for reading if you read this far!

#long post #loki spoilers #loki 1x03 #loki 1x02 #loki series #meta #a rare text post appears #my stuff

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