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asgardian--angels · 6 months

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Izzy Discourse Masterpost

Hey all, given the amount of awful splintering and wank happening in ofmd fandom rn regarding Izzy's death, including the flat-out immature and unacceptable harassment of David Jenkins and Co, I wanted to just make this one all-encompassing post to address the various grievances and complaints I've seen (almost entirely on Twitter). If I've missed anything, please feel free to add on. I'm putting most of this under a read-more for length.

Please be aware, I say all of this as an Izzy fan. I've loved his character since season 1, and while I was sad to see him go, I completely understand and support David & Co's reasons for concluding his arc, and I think it was done respectfully in a way fitting to his character. So let's break down some of the takes I've seen. I am not referencing specific posts or people here, I just want to address the general themes that I keep seeing about why some people are upset.

Izzy's death served no narrative purpose.

Look, this is one that I'm sure fans will debate for the rest of the hiatus. It's completely within your right to disagree with this writing choice, but Izzy's death did serve a narrative purpose in the story that David Jenkins is telling - and he has spoken to this end in several interviews already. I can only summarize here, and fans may find other perspectives in time as well. What we need to remember is that Our Flag Means Death is, at the end of the day, Ed and Stede's love story. That has been made abundantly, explicitly clear. The show has been fantastic at fleshing out the other supporting characters, but that's what they are - supporting characters. They often have their own subplots but ultimately the narrative seeks to move Ed and Stede's story forward and they are tools to spur Ed and Stede's growth or mirror their struggles. Izzy has been a wonderfully complex, multifaceted character but we must remember that all characters are vessels through which stories are told, lessons are imparted, and metaphors are established. He's not a real person who 'deserves' any particular fate. David said he's always intended for Izzy to die at the end of his arc.

Firstly, Izzy (now canonically, through his own dying words) represents part of Blackbeard. He enabled and encouraged Ed's darker side, they were mutually toxic forces to each other. Ed is attempting to cope with and move on from this phase of his life, and like Stede in season 1, set out a free man, unshackled by expectations and loose ends of those he's hurt and been hurt by (though we realize this is an ongoing process that takes time). This lovely gifset sums it up nicely, with Izzy being the Mary parallel, and making s2 mirror s1. Blackbeard is both Ed and Izzy; Ed cannot be free of Blackbeard while Izzy is in his life, and when Izzy is gone he will never truly be Blackbeard again. They are each other's rotting leg!! Yet, they love each other - and David has said that for Ed, this has developed into a mentor and father relationship, and where Ed has previously despised his father figures (his actual father, Hornigold) he does not want to lose Izzy. This time, Izzy brings out Ed, not Blackbeard - and that's where we get the callback to 'there he is', bringing their impact on each other full circle, freeing Ed, getting approval of sorts that he never had, to be soft, to be loved (and there are parallels to Zheng and Auntie here as well that others have made) from that force that drove him to stay in line all this time. David has said in multiple interviews now that he was going for the idea of the mentor/father figure dying and the hero living on and trying to do justice to them.

From Izzy's side, Izzy cannot be free while Edward remains either (Mary cannot find peace while Stede remains). The scar never truly healed, the leg will always be a reminder. At this point the argument becomes 'yes, but why did he have to die? Why not just sail off with the crew of the Revenge?' David has stated that he feels they've done everything they can with, and for, Izzy; he's come leagues from season 1, he's found community, he's found hope, he's found new parts of himself, and he's made good memories. He's found worth outside of what he can be to others. That's more than most pirates could hope for. Where would his character go from there, when the Golden Age of Piracy he belongs to has burned to the ground? Would he stay around and whittle on the Revenge? If he were a real person, yes, that would be lovely, and he'd deserve all the quiet peaceful happiness in the world. But as I explain several points below, he's not interested in being a captain. He's not up for the hard physical labor of regular crew, and he's extremely overqualified for that besides. He has served his narrative purpose, and symbolically, to enter a new age, everything must go. He's connected to the old age of piracy, to the Republic of Pirates, that is now demolished. To him, fighting for what he believes in, for the family he's found, bringing down an army of British twats in the process, is how he should go. It's a pirate's death, and as Izzy's said, he's a pirate - unlike Blackbeard who's succeeding in breaking away from piracy, Izzy never wanted to stop being a pirate, throughout his arc. To me, that's why Izzy remains trapped in the narrative, trapped in history, whereas Ed and Stede will escape history. They leave piracy, and canon, behind, while Izzy was content to remain a pirate and face a pirate's fate.

Burying him on land, right next to Ed and Stede's beach house, shows that his sacrifice was not in vain - they start this new life together, thanks to Izzy's mentorship, his role in their lives that sometimes for worse, sometimes for better, made their love what it was and made their breakaway possible. The new age is built on the foundations of the old age, and is stronger for it.

As we're well aware by now, David tweeted that there's no version of ofmd without Izzy. Whether that's literal or not, symbolically it's true. Izzy's arc of growth affected everyone on the Revenge. Jim fondly remembered fighting for a time when life meant something on that ship; the crew helped give Izzy new meaning in life, and he helped them in return. When he dies, they mourn and have a funeral; that wouldn't have happened under Blackbeard's watch in episode 2. His life meant something to them. He influenced Ed and Stede immensely, and they will take that with them. As David's said, they're all a family, and Izzy was a part of that family, and his loss unites them and brings them closer to continue to fight for that family they've built. It's a tragic, sudden death of someone they've all grown to care for, and that steels their reserve to keep the torch lit. They literally sail off into the sunset to hunt down Ricky to avenge Izzy; he will always be a part of this show. And, of course, with the brief appearance of seagull Buttons, the door is left open for anything.

If this was The Izzy Show, then sure, we'd be content to see him simply engaged in shenanigans every episode. But the plot, and therefore the characters, need to keep moving forward, and Izzy got his growth and development. He got what he needed for his character to have closure, and he served his symbolic narrative purpose in Ed's (and Stede's) story. You may have your own ideas and perspectives, and that's great - that's what fandom is for. But we cannot say his death was pointless when David Jenkins and the writers clearly had a well-defined motive for pushing the narrative in this direction. I actually think the narrative around Ed and Izzy is the most well-developed in the entire show. I for one am so happy we got such an interesting and complex character, and had the brilliant Con O'Neill to portray him.

Izzy's growth & healing arc was rendered pointless by his death.

As this post so eloquently puts it, it's pretty bleak to have the outlook that taking steps to heal and find meaning in life is worthless if it's later lost. Seeking happiness and self-actualization is worthwhile for its own sake; no one knows what's down the road, and we all die eventually. Find meaning in life now. Would you rather have had Izzy not miss with his bullet in ep2? He was given the chance to experience joy, freedom, and hope for the first time in potentially a long time, and when he died he did so with those happy memories. As mentioned, Izzy's death was decided long beforehand given the narrative, and the point of storytelling is to make you feel emotions. We were given impetus to connect and relate to Izzy's character through his process of healing, so when he did die, we felt it keenly. That's how stories work actually! We felt what Ed felt. It moved us. It's not a bad thing that Izzy's arc made him more likeable to fans before his death. It's not a bad thing to lose a beloved character - guess what, it happens constantly in stories - and it's not bad to grieve over it either, but to say that it made his journey pointless is just not true. People saying that Con must be upset that they snatched his character away from him after getting to develop him so much - again I say, would you rather him have died in ep 2 before he had the chance to grow? Or how about in s1, when the crew tried to mutiny? How'd you feel when Stede killed him in his dream, in the very first scene of the season? I think Con's probably glad for the opportunity to have explored this character so much in season 2. Ask him if he thinks it was pointless.

Killing off Izzy was bad for queer rep/burying your gays/"Izzy was the queer heart of the show"

I'm putting 'bury your gays' on the top shelf so people can't use it when it doesn't actually apply. Most of the main cast of characters in this show are queer, and it's a show about pirates with a good amount of violence. Ergo, chances are a queer character will die in the course of Things Happening In Stories. Izzy didn't die because he was queer, and he wasn't the token queer rep. Please turn your attention to the boatloads (literally) of queer characters that are happy and thriving (how about the LuPete wedding immediately afterwards??). As for Izzy being the "queer heart of the show," this is literally the Ed and Stede show. You know, the two queer leads whose queer love the show revolves around, per David Jenkins himself. I'm glad folks connected with and derived joy from Izzy's growth and especially his performance in Calypso's birthday, but he is not the main character of the show. The queer heart of the show is in fact, the entire show, all of their characters and the community & found family they create aboard the Revenge. Not to mention the fan community as well. Izzy was never carrying the show's representation on his back, and frankly that's an absurdly wild take to have (esp when he spent most of s1 actively working against the main queer relationships in the show, attempting to maintain the oppressive status quo of pirate society).

It was bad and irresponsible to have a suicidal character die

Are we forgetting the entire first half of the season where Ed, who was suicidal, kept trying to passively kill himself because he felt he was an unlovable monster, only to be shown that he is in fact loved unconditionally and it gives him the strength to fight for life and triumph against his own self-doubt? The show has spent quite a lot of effort telling viewers that despite feeling damaged or broken you are worthy of love and that you are loved even if it may be hard to see it when you're in a bad place. That you don't need to be fully healed to deserve love and care, and that love and support will help you along your journey. It's incredibly wild to disregard this major plot point and fundamental message of s2 to try and spin this the opposite way for Izzy's character.

Secondly, where are people getting 'Izzy is suicidal' from? Are we going back all the way to episode 2, when he's at his lowest point and fails at his suicide attempt, only to be figuratively reborn after removing the metaphorical rotten leg? By the time of the finale he's shown to be in a good place, thanks to the arc of healing and growth he's gotten, through the support of the Revenge crew and his 'breakup' with Blackbeard allowing him to find his own way in life, realizing he doesn't need a purpose to have value and enjoying his time on the Revenge and the bonds he's made with Stede and the crew. He is, in the words of Ivan, "the most open and available I've ever seen him" by the finale. To take episode 2 as evidence he's suicidal is to erase his whole season of growth, which is an ironic thing to do in the context of these arguments. There's no canon evidence Izzy Hands was suicidal post-'Fun and Games'.

As for 'irresponsible,' once again I say, David Jenkins is not your therapist, he's not 'Dad,' and has no responsibility to tell his story any other way than he intended to tell it. Please find media that gives you what you want or need, and if the death of a fictional character causes you this much distress please seek help. I mean this kindly but seriously.

Killing off Izzy was ableist/bad for disability rep.

I point once again to the rest of the characters, several of which are disabled in varied ways. There are literally multiple other amputee characters specifically. It's not good storytelling to wholly avoid killing off any character that is disabled/queer/poc/female or [insert marginalized group here], especially when a) it makes sense narratively, and b) there's plenty of representation of these groups in the media in question. The answer isn't making such characters invincible and immortal, it's increasing the number of these characters in shows so it's not devastating when some do die in the course of natural storytelling.

OFMD was my comfort show/safe space show, now it's ruined for me

I am not trying to be insensitive here when I say that's a problem that is yours and nobody else's. David Jenkins created this show with a three-season vision and a story in mind, and he is telling that story to the best of his ability the way he wants to. It's already been said that he and the crew did not anticipate the fandom becoming as large and passionate as it has. The plot of the show was never intended to be 'fan service,' and it's ironic that there were people complaining this season that there's been too many fanservice tropes, up until David and the rest of the writers room made a narrative decision they did not like, then the complaints changed to not coddling the fans enough.

We as viewers can derive joy from this show, it can be a comfort to us, it can be important to us. But it was not designed specifically for that purpose, therefore it cannot fail in that respect. We do not have the right to harass writers for not steering the ship in the direction we want - it's their work of art, and we can choose to either come along for the ride or not. It's rare to see creators actually given the chance to tell their story the way they intend (budget cuts aside), so let him do that. He should not cater to fans, or cave and change the story to appease us. Respect his right to create his art, and remember you have the right to create your own. That's what fanfiction is for - write fix-its to your heart's content, but keep these realms separate. David Jenkins and Co hold zero, and I mean zero, responsibility to you. He could not please everyone no matter what he did, it would be fruitless to try, and it would certainly compromise the quality of the story he set out to tell.

You are absolutely allowed to dislike choices made in any show. Curate your media experience. If this show no longer brings you joy, stop watching. But it was never David's purpose nor responsibility to juggle the mental health of millions of fans. Trying to put that on him will only make him less enthusiastic about interacting with fans or continuing to make this show. This isn't rocket science. You're responsible for yourself, not this guy you call 'Dad' that you've developed a parasocial-therapist relationship with.

Izzy should have become captain of the Revenge.

Really?? Firstly, we did actually get that already in s1. He was tyrannical and the crew mutinied. But even if you think 'well after his character arc he'd be better suited to it,' it goes against the point of this arc. He's found value in not having a distinct role or purpose on the ship, decoupling his worth from the job he's expected to perform. He's found his place amongst the crew, not commanding it. There's no narrative reason to put him in charge when he's expressed no further interest in slotting himself back into a role full of pressure and expectations.

Con O'Neill was only told halfway through filming, it's cruel to just kill off the character he loves so much.

Guys, he's an actor. More than that, an actor with a theater background. I think he's used to characters dying. You don't need to look out for him. Con and David spoke one on one about it at length so they were on the same page, and David even said that Con took it well. I'm sure Con had input, just as other members of the cast have influenced their characters' stories, costumes, backstories, etc. Do you really think David Jenkins hurt Con's feelings or something? The writers (remember, it's not just David, it's a whole team of hard-working people coming up with these ideas) gave Con such a chance to shine this season, really developing Izzy beyond what he was given in s1 and letting Con show off his full acting range. Why are you only focusing on the destination rather than the journey? Sure, Con's probably sad to see Izzy go, but please do not project your distress onto him or try and accuse David & Co of being 'cruel' to their cast. That's really ridiculous. It's constantly evident how close they all are.

More importantly, do you actually, seriously think that Con O'Neill would want fans to harass each other or the writers over his character? The man who preaches being kind above all? There is no better way to make an actor uncomfortable about a show and its fanbase than to start treating fictional characters like they're more important than real people. He would not want you to bully people over Izzy Hands, and it's mind-boggling that some of you have convinced yourself otherwise.

Lastly, I just want to talk about the fact that some people are holding OFMD to absurdly high expectations.

Our Flag Means Death has been a pioneer series for its diverse representation, earnest storytelling, and themes of hope, community, and love. It's fine to discuss aspects of the show with a critical eye, but so much of the discourse has truly felt like folks are trying to find fault in a show that is leagues ahead of the average tv series that we still enjoy. How many fan favorites are killed off all the time? How many plotlines are scrapped, or drawn out without closure, or contradicted the very next season? How many shows are indifferent or actively hostile towards their fanbase? How many have any queer characters, or actually do bury them? The bar's so low, and OFMD has risen above to give us so much. Some are holding the show to astronomical expectations, waiting for it to fall from the pedestal it's been placed on. If something you don't like happens in the show, it's not suddenly ruined or demoted to being ~just as bad as those other shows~. Give them some breathing room, have some perspective on how progressive the show is, and that perfection is impossible, especially meeting every single viewer's idea of it. This is basically a repeat of the recent Good Omens drama, with an absurd number of people harassing Neil Gaiman for breaking up Aziraphale and Crowley and leaving the second of three acts on a very predictable cliffhanger. Let stories be told, let them unfold as they may, and you are free to leave anytime. It's so wonderful that more queer love stories are becoming popular and even mainstream, but let's not shoot ourselves in the foot by tearing them down when they don't go exactly the way you want it, which often seems to mean no drama, no character deaths, and therefore no conflict or even plot!

Just, please be civil human beings, and while this seems to be a difficult thing for so many fandoms to do, just keep your fan opinions in the fan space. Never bring your grievances to the writers, never bully them and persecute them for telling a story that you opted into viewing. That's something that goes entirely against everything this show, and this cast and crew, have imparted onto us - the importance of kindness, support, community, and love. I'll say it again because it bears repeating: the fate of a fictional character is never more important than how you treat real people. Just be kind in real life, which includes the internet. Thanks.

Now please, let's work together to ensure we get a season 3. There's so much more story to be told, and if you want to see Izzy back, whether that's as flashbacks, as a ghost haunting the inn, or in the gravy basket, we'll need more episodes! #RenewAsACrew

#our flag means death #ofmd #ofmd s2 #ofmd s2 spoilers #and after this i will speak of it no more ok #now once we're all calmed down i am really looking forward to meta about izzy's role in the narrative #i truly think izzy's one of the most well written characters on not just this show but on tv lately in general #suicide mention tw #I tried to put a read more under the first bullet point but tumblr's formatting basically deleted it #by automatically overriding it with an Expand #so sorry about the length and such

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andsomemaniacgotridofthewheel · 6 months

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David Jenkins was not a Big Name Showrunner before OFMD. In fact, I had never heard of him before. I am not even sure what he did before OFMD, according to IMDB he wrote exactly one other show and it is one I have never even heard of before.

And he somehow got HBO to make his weird little show about gay pirates, and he got Taika Waititi to help with it, and while nobody was expecting anything of it - I mean come on guys, remember when OFMD dropped and everyone only gradually realised what it was - it became The Little Show That Could. With almost no advertising. No marketing. HBO did clearly did not expect this show to be anything, to make any real money or to go beyond one season.

But then it blew up.

Because David Jenkins was so insightful, he was so good, he brought so much fresh wind into a business where we usually can tell how the next three steps of how any show is going to go (and to be fair, a lot of us feared that Izzy's death in season 2 was coming, because all the signs fit), that we put him on a pedestal.

THE FUCKING PEDESTAL.

Yes he is brilliant. He has done stuff with OFMD that you never ever see somewhere else. He has understood that historical accuracy, as well as physics and geography, are merely backdrop for plot and characters. Completely irrelevant if you need them to be, but then suddenly important if you have a bit of story that won't work without. He understood that queer relationships deserve to be told, and when confronted with skeptic fans he learned about queerbaiting.

He took a lot of tropes and put them on their head. He structured his show like fanfic. He put thought into his stories instead of following the beaten track. He single-handedly raised the bar for every showrunner out there.

But it is still only his second show.

If he didn't shine so brightly during OFMD's first season, nobody would have expected so much of him.

And yes. He dropped the ball on Izzy.

I loved Izzy to pieces ever since season 1, I wanted to pin him to a board like a bug and study him and take him apart and put him in a blender and in situations, I loved to hate him and in season 2 I loved to love him. He is such a brilliant, complex character, so well written and so well played by Con O'Neill; the options for character analysis, relationship analysis, various interpretations of everything he has done, are simply limitless. 🤯 That is due to David Jenkins & Con O'Neill.

And David Jenkins, standing in the spotlight of all of our exaggerated expectations, decided it would have the greatest emotional impact if he killed him. He made him a symbol, for the end of The Golden Age of Piracy™, and he killed him.

He was right.

He was not original.

He fell for one of the very tropes he so successfully fought in season 1, and for the most part of season 2.

Procuring an emotional response by having a beloved character, who was just starting to embark on an exciting new journey, die tragically and emotionally, providing motivation for the remaining characters.

It was a cheap move.

It is not a Bury Your Gays. Everyone is queer on this show, you can't call something a Bury Your Gays if that would be true for every character death.

But Izzy was also old, and disabled, and he had survived a suicide attempt (that he was driven into, not chose for himself), and had just had an arc of growth and character development that could have gone on for such a long time after this. He had just learned to trust and be vulnerable and experience (gender)queer joy. God, there were so many places his character could have gone.

I loved Izzy as a character, I didn't relate much to him. But Your Mileage May Vary, and I am so, so sorry for everyone who did. You didn't deserve this.

But David Jenkins? Is still sooo much better than any generic bland showrunner that is going places in Hollywood. You want to boycott anything, boycott the big streaming services that don't have the guts to make their main characters queer, to think that "a bit of both" is inclusive or bold, and who drive out any creatives that object and try to sneak in inclusiveness. They are the enemy. They are systemic discrimination and injustice.

David Jenkins is just starting out. And he did so much better on his very first successful show than anyone who has been in the business for years. If anyone deserves a chance to prove that he can do better, it's him.

I'm sure he'll come to regret his decision. I'm sure he'll see where he went wrong, how he could have done better, and fix it in any show he might do after this. I, for one, would much rather see any show he is involved in than most of the crap that the AMPTP is putting out, now or in the future. He can only get better. And he did do a lot of things right. Never forget that. Because the majority of showrunners can't even do the minimum, and David Jenkins went above and beyond.

I think he deserves a little slack. If anyone in the streaming industry does, it's him.

It's the fucking pedestal that is the problem. It makes people who do good but are not perfect suddenly look worse than the most cowardice, opportunistic mediocre guy. But they are not and they deserve a leg up, or we are stuck with the worse option who gets support from all the wrong places. Don't fall for it.

#david jenkins #our flag means death #ofmd #izzy hands #ofmd izzy hands #con o'neill #nikku.txt

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bemusedlybespectacled · 4 months

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Question: I enjoyed s1 OF OFMD, but for various reasons I never actually got around to watching s2 (pick up most of the plot from tumblr tho). What exactly went wrong in s2 that got so many people upset?

Oh, boy. Very long rant incoming.

So, for context, S2 had a significantly smaller budget, which necessitated moving the filming location to union-unfriendly New Zealand, reducing the number of actors/number of appearances of established actors, and cutting down the number of episodes from 10 to 8. In a show where each episode is only about half an hour long, that last one alone was enough to seriously hamper any character development or plot. I am very comfortable putting the vast majority of the blame on HBO because of these financial decisions.

The short version is that Jenkins et. al. needed to address and build on the problems left hanging in S1 while also getting the characters to the end of their character trajectories in case there was no S3 while also leaving room for additional episodes in case there was a S3, in a grand total of four hours, and failed.

The long version is that there were a bunch of what I'd consider small problems in isolation that came together and exploded in the S2 finale.

The reduced cast necessitated breaking up the crew (ex: having Swede marry Jackie and stay on land with her, so they don't need to pay Nat Faxon for all eight episodes) and not spending as much time on their relationships as S1 did.

The reduced time meant that the entire season was rushed (in contrast to S1, which takes place over at least several weeks if not months, most of S2 takes place in roughly five days), leading both to a lot of telling rather than showing (because they don't have time to show you), including vital character and relationship development.

This includes:

Having the Kraken half of the crew beat Ed to death after months of being abused by him – abuse that is clearly shown to have given them PTSD and a well-justified fear and hatred of him – only for them to be okay with him two in-universe days later;

On that note, having Stede dismiss the crew's concerns about Ed because he loves him and also we only have three more episodes left to fit in everything so we need to get over it really fast, even though Stede is supposed to be well-meaning and caring (even if he's not good at it all the time);

Resolving the issue of Stede abandoning Ed in one day, then having them "go slowly" in their relationship for two days and then have some spur-of-the-moment sex, and then the next afternoon have them break up over their diverging career aspirations, and then the day after that resolve that problem and retire on land while the rest of the crew sails off into the sunset;

Stede becoming a fantastic pirate captain over the course of one day, becoming wildly popular in the piracy world two days later, and then deciding the day after that to never be a captain again because he is retiring with Ed;

Having Ed and Stede decide to retire together as what is implied to be the end point of their relationship arc, when none of Stede's issues from S1, like his poor self-esteem, have been so much as mentioned by anyone, implying that he's either magically gotten over them or they don't matter all that much, actually, even though they were the catalyst for basically everything he did in S1;

Ed having two separate character crises – "I am an unlovable person" and "I want to do something with my life other than piracy" – not spending a lot of time on either one, having moments that clearly indicate he is still working on both problems and they have not been resolved, and then apparently having them both be resolved in the final episode despite nothing occurring to actually make that happen, and in regards to the latter, despite the story actively undermining it by repeatedly showing he can't do anything other than piracy;

Related to the above, Ed ending the series as allegedly being loved by the crew as a family (thus solving Crisis #1) despite this never actually being shown, demonstrated, or even fucking alluded to onscreen. If anything, it shows the exact opposite.

This last point is especially galling to me because of what is probably the most divisive issue in the fandom right now: killing off Izzy Hands after giving him seven episodes of character development.

The show begins with the Kraken crew clearly trying to use the skills they learned as part of Stede's crew to cope with their incredibly shitty situation and care for each other, which includes Izzy. Izzy, on his end, tries to protect the crew and speak up for them, which results in him being repeatedly hurt (both implicitly, as Ed at one point says "that's another toe" in response to Izzy advocating for the crew and we later see he's missing more than one toe already, and explicitly, as Ed shoots him in the fucking leg in front of the crew when he stands up for them).

This camaraderie is shown again and again and again. Frenchie, Jim, and Archie take care of Izzy while his leg is infected, at risk to their own lives. Izzy's misery over losing his leg is what unites the PTSD-ridden Kraken crew and the well-meaning-but-ignorant-of-PTSD marooned crew, who are initially at odds, to make him a new prosthetic leg. Izzy gives Lucius advice about forgiving Ed. Izzy is introduced to drag and opens up enough to sing at a crew party, and the whole crew is having fun together while Ed and Stede are in their cabin having sex for the first time. Izzy gives Stede pirate captain lessons and bonds with him when Ed leaves him. Izzy provokes the season's villain into focusing on him and then gives a big speech about how piracy is about belonging to something, giving the rest of the crew time to try to escape.

Recall that Season 1 had some pretty well-established universe rules, one of which was that it runs on Muppet physics/magical realism. People can jump off yardarms, hit the side on the way down, and be perfectly fine. People can get stabbed in the liver and it's totally okay because it's probably not that important, and even can stay pinned to a mast all night that way with only mild discomfort. Buttons can talk to birds and see long distances without a spyglass and put hexes on people. Good people can be hurt (Stede is stabbed repeatedly), bad people can die (the Badmintons, Geraldo), but no one we care about is ever killed.

This is repeated in Season 2: Ed is beaten into a coma with a cannonball and wakes up like Sleeping Beauty after a spirit journey, with no injuries to his face or body. Buttons turns into a seagull after spending an episode doing a magic ritual and is never seen again (because they couldn't keep paying Ewen Bremner due to the budget cuts). Jackie microdoses her husbands with poison to build up their immunity, so that she can later pull a Dread Pirate Westley and poison the British with shared drinks.

So: in the finale, the villain of the season is taken hostage by the pirates (for reasons? unclear how that fits in the plan), happens to have a gun on him (no one checked??), shoots Izzy on the right side and then leaves with no repercussions. The entire crew stands around silently doing nothing while Ed cries over Izzy and tells him that he's his only family.

And Izzy fucking Hands, the guy who just spent eight episodes bonding with and protecting everyone, uses his last words to reassure Ed that him becoming Blackbeard/the Kraken was Izzy's fault and that the crew is Ed's family and they all love him. No one else says anything to Izzy or tries to comfort him or help him in any way.

I repeat: in a show predicated on the idea that bullies and bigots die stupid deaths while queer people and POC are basically magic, a show that was praised for being kind to queer people by not making them worry about their faves suffering or dying, a show founded on the strength of the relationships between the characters, the guy who went through a season-long arc of learning to embrace his pirate found family and his own queerness is shot for stupid reasons on the side we're told isn't important and dies while everyone just stands there. His last words are about the whole crew loving Ed when the only person that the whole crew has loved all season is him.

Anyway, never mind all that, let's cut to Lucius and Pete getting married and Stede and Ed retiring!

Complicating all this is that people who liked Izzy (or even said anything insufficiently mean about Izzy) were harassed for months in between seasons with insults, slurs, and actual fucking death threats. Izzy's growth was kind of a vindication for liking him: it meant that, despite all the harassment, we were right to like him and care about him as a character. Even people who didn't like him initially started to like him during Season 2.

And then he dies, and now there's a bunch of people saying that Izzy fans are big whiny babies who can't handle fictional death, and actually his death was so meaningful and beautiful and the only logical end to his arc, and it can't be bad writing because people die in real life all the time, and also he admitted he fed Ed's darkness so actually he was a terrible person all along anyway and they were right to hate him (and his fans)!

So, yeah, there are a lot of reasons why it's so hated, and I'm probably only addressing the problems of the pro-Izzy people (from what I can tell, BlackBonnet shippers who don't like Izzy think Ed and Stede's relationship is fine and dandy, but I'm sure that there are other criticisms they have that I have not addressed). I'm not even addressing the issues with Jim and Oluwande's relationship this season (and whooo boy are there issues).

It wasn't a universally bad season. There were episodes I really loved and still do. But the finale was a train wreck, and because it was a train wreck, a lot of people are looking back at what happened before the wreck and realizing that, oh, the train lost its brakes and steering because of the budget cuts and the engineers kept throwing fuel in the engine to make it go faster, and huh, now that I think of it, that part earlier in the trip was really wobbly but I didn't pay much attention to it at the time because I was sure the engineers had everything covered.

#ofmd critical #our flag means death #writing #izzy hands #ofmd meta #askbox #personal

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ladyluscinia · 6 months

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Izzy, Bottles, and Apologies

Izzy's arc in S2 has been a wild ride.

The S1 Izzy enjoyers are feeling vindicated as hell, many people are fully revising their opinion of him, and the people still hating him have a new criticism or off the wall theory daily. David Jenkins LOVES Izzy and is having the time of his life trying to make sure everyone else does too. They had Con O'Neill sing in drag!

And naturally I have thoughts.

This is gonna be a two part post, I think. First, as much as people are celebrating Izzy having realized his arc and come into his own - from the singing to the apparent BlackBonnet shipping - there are some threads they could pull on that might reveal more arc to come. And I am really hoping they pull them, so I'm gonna tell you why you should too!

And second, I have some minor points I dislike and concerns that this might be the end of the arc. Which would be disappointing but I think I get why, so I'm gonna discuss that too.

To start...

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"How are you handling all this so well?"

Here's the thing about S2 Izzy - while I need to be clear his behavior is not OOC or inconsistent with S1, it is happening rather fast. I'm pretty sure that has a lot to do with out of universe reasons I'll get into later, but in-universe it stands out. Now, he's hardly the only one operating on an accelerated schedule - the timeline for this season is an insanely fast not-even-two-weeks - but Izzy's defining struggle in S1 was fear of change. That was the cause of his friction with Edward, and what made him an antagonist in the first place.

In S2 he's gone through a lot of trauma, yes, but that fear is noticeably less present than I would expect.

Izzy in 2x06 has been cleaned up from his sobbing mess phase for just over 48 hours and he faces Edward with a joke, and then that night sings a moving French serenade to the crew. The next morning he's teasing them about finally hooking up and spends the day offering both Stede and Edward relationship advice.

He's a newly realized man... shedding repression and embracing who he could be. Accepting his breakup with Edward and trying to openly support the relationship that's better for him.

It's fun!

It's also, potentially, a bit of a flag. Maybe not a red one, not yet, but... pink-ish? A bit orange?

Let's look a little closer at those frayed edges.

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"Well, you see, I have a system..."

There's an exchange from right at the start of the Pilot episode that has echoed through the entire series so far:

"Bottle it up?" -> "No, Frenchie! No, that's the worst thing you could do!"

Not talking to other people, not addressing your traumas... that's the kind of shit that just builds and builds inside you. When the cork eventually pops, the resulting damage can be a lot. Look at the finale of S1, where all of Stede's bottled up guilt and insecurities laid waste to his relationship with Edward, and then inadvertently became the first domino in the Kraken.

S2 is quick to bring this scene back into the forefront. The first time we see the Breakup Boat crew talking in 2x01, Frenchie reveals that "Bottle it up?" wasn't just a random comment he made, but a philosophy of his:

"Ah - well, you see, I have a system for dealing with all the terrible things I've seen. There's a box, in my mind, and I put the things in the box, I lock the box, and then I don't open it again. Works like a charm."

Apparently, Frenchie is the only one it actually seems to be working for.

Now, the show has been drawing some interesting lines between Frenchie and Izzy. From both serving as Blackbeard's First Mate to being frequently shown as a duo - tormenting Navy guys together on Sunday's raid, Frenchie holding Izzy's hand, Frenchie leaning on Izzy's leg in the cell, Frenchie behind him raising the flag in 2x05 - it's fitting that Izzy echoes Frenchie's preferred coping method. First he frames the non-acknowledgement of harm from Edward as just... part of piracy. He's a pirate, so he's fine with it.

And then we get Izzy's little whittled shark reveal and the conversation with Lucius about his leg:

"I don't know what you're talking about. Shark did this... dangling my legs over the side of the ship. Served me right, too."

Lucius calls him out on the unhealthy behavior, and Izzy concedes his point:

"O-kay, that seems healthy. Using a bit of fiction to help cover up your trauma." -> "Yeah, well... not moving on is worse. Twatty."

And to give him credit, he's right in his advice to Lucius. Filling his sketchbook with pages and pages of Blackbeard trauma is Lucius's form of bottling it up - thinking in endless recursive circles about his tumble off the ship and everything that followed. We already know chasing revenge instead of living is bad - Jim and Spanish Jackie established it last season, and Pete just echoed them. When Izzy advises Lucius to move on, that's what Lucius does.

But what Izzy is doing with the shark? That's not the same thing at all. He's lost a leg, grazed a bullet off his own head, and was snarling drunken accusations at himself in the mirror... he's not moving on from that. He's bottling it up with a nice dose of self-blame.

Cutting the legs off the unicorn for not doing it's job right and saying "served me right" about his fictional shark? There's a real dark knot of emotions there.

(Recall, too, that Edward deflected his hurt from Stede's abandonment into a "fictional character" during his chats with Lucius, and that delayed the explosion but couldn't stop it.)

So... Izzy's definitely coping with trauma in a way the show does not advise and often circles back to. Can we see any signs in 2x06 and 2x07?

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The Weight of Things Unsaid

At the very start of 2x06, Izzy gets the thing he spent all of 2x05 mentally bracing himself to never hear - an apology from Edward for his leg. He walks up to initiate conversation and begins talking like nothing has changed. Edward is back in his leathers. Appropriate, given that his penance onesie was nothing genuine, just "how long do I have to wear this fucking thing for?" And Izzy is ready for them not to address the obvious hurt, to just smooth over a few jabs and go back to normal... but even Edward's mumbled little "Sorry about your leg" is so significant and difficult he flees as soon as he gets it out, leaving Izzy to sit, incredulous, with the acknowledgement.

It's still almost definitely not enough.

There was so much between them in 2x01 - 2x03. The writers literally did BlackHands love confessions on both sides. An apology from Edward Teach - a man who historically does not apologize - is a huge first step but still only the first step. The real things unsaid are so much bigger than a leg.

We get something else, too... Edward commenting on Izzy's drinking.

"Jesus. Really putting that away, aren't ya?"

Izzy has had booze a lot this season. He lost a leg and pain meds aren't really an option, so not surprising, but notable. Edward, advocating for substance abuse to deal with bad feelings, calls him a lightweight in 2x01. When they are found with the dead seabird in 2x03, Izzy takes a pointed drink from his bottle, and then 2x04 he spends the entire episode completely plastered. He seemingly sobered up for 2x05 - probably to focus on sword training and his whittling project - but now the bottle is back again before Izzy disappears for several hours.

And a little liquid courage might explain his going all in for the Calypso's Birthday performance.

I do appreciate that the performance on it's face is something completely unexpected for Izzy, but when thinking about it... it does make sense.

We already know music and performance were available on Blackbeard's ship even before Stede. Edward learned to play shanties on the piano somewhere, and singing is a common and encouraged part of sailing culture. Izzy's choice of song to perform is something a lot more emotional, but this is probably not his first performance for a crew.

Makeup, too, is in fashion for men and women at this time, and OFMD has shown it as such before. Izzy has never worn fashion makeup, or tried to be beautiful, but the concept wouldn't be alien to him. Wee John's description of a dramatic party look might even have intrigued him specifically because Izzy has actually done "looks" before - of the terrifying "theatre of fear" kind. The Kraken did have his whole crew in makeup for their raids. Taking the opportunity to embody something a bit more vulnerable and try to bring joy to this crew that took care of him is meaningful as fuck.

And it's still a drag performance!

It's a good pair of moments - before and after Ned. Proof that all this isn't just coping method - that's not what I'm arguing here - and even if Izzy's still bottling up a lot of feelings he's not doing the same full pressure bomb thing as he did in S1. There's been growth!

(This is why the flags are only pink-ish / orange-ish right now.)

Episode 2x07 though... I'm not so sure he's doing good as much as pretending it's all good.

Showing up to make his joke in the morning is a fun moment. I especially enjoy Edward's little "fuck off" with no bite to it 🤣🤣🤣 Reminder they do live together on a ship, so this is likely not even close to the first morning-after that Izzy has gotten front row seats to. But, at least to me, there's also a very performative feeling about it. Izzy being very Look how normal I can be about you fucking your boyfriend, Ed - and Edward picks up on it too. That's why he turns to Stede and whispers "He's jealous" as Izzy walks away.

Izzy continues to make jokes and give advice through the day to our main couple, but he's... subdued. I think his fake chill also disguises that he and Edward aren't on the same page about what they discuss at the docks, hence his poor advice to "listen to it" when the "it" in question is Edward's immediate desire to run away from Stede and become a fisherman. They are talking again, but haven't resumed communicating.

I also think it's relevant that Izzy goes to try and support Stede after Edward dumps him, because we're still waiting for Stede to stop bottling things up. He doesn't talk about Badminton or feelings of inadequacy or even the babiest little olive branch to Edward about "hey my dad kinda sucked too." Edward's two exes are sitting in the bar corner together, thinking about all the shit they won't talk to him about until it kills all three of them. Exciting!

The pressure is building. It has to circle back to Stede in S3. I'm hoping at the same time, it circles back to Izzy, too.

Hoping we get to explore some of his anxiety, and his internalizing negative self-image and blame. At the moment, I think Izzy might have less gotten over his anxieties and more just let go of the wheel of his life entirely, and fortunately had people around to steer him in okay directions. It would be really interesting to explore that more.

(Even if I have some concerns they may not.)

---

Subtle as a Cannonball to the Face

Izzy's character arc was always going to be a long journey - not because he was somehow morally worse than everyone else, or required particularly painstaking growth, or even because there was going to be some great need to "hold him accountable" for S1. No, it was going to be a long journey from an antagonist start for the same reason I mentioned earlier: Izzy's core struggle is fear of change.

OFMD opens with two protagonists recklessly pursuing change in ways that harm themselves, their relationships, and others, and a primary onscreen antagonist resisting change in a way that harms himself, his relationships, and others. There's no easy morality here - they all fuck up. And they all require the entire show to actually figure out the correct balance of change and growth and facing the past.

"I think the three of them are on an arc together that's pretty inseparable." - David Jenkins (Source, 9 Oct 2023)

So... why is there a chance that everything I've mentioned above is going absolutely nowhere and Izzy's arc has been wrapped up with a bow in S2?

Well.

It's late March 2022, the fandom's age is still only countable in weeks, I personally haven't even watched the pilot yet, had only even heard of the show 3 days before... and one of David Jenkins first post-finale statements is telling people to pay attention to Izzy's POV and his and Edward's love story on rewatches (Source, 25 Mar 2022), and then soon after comparing Stede to a homewrecker in Edward and Izzy's toxic marriage (Source, 15 Apr 2022). Lots of links because this stuff was available to the fandom from the start.

By the first half of May 2022 (while poor Mr. Jenkins is still anxiously trying to get his series renewed for S2, since the confirmation won't come until June 1) the takes on Izzy have soured a lot. It's not a "homophobic gay" joke anymore. Now it's "Izzy is the embodiment of colonialism who enforces a racist and homophobic ideal of Blackbeard on Edward" and "pretending Izzy could be canonically gay is homophobic" and "Izzy bought Edward as a slave from the British". Harassing anons have already started on tumblr. No first hand experience with Twitter but I've heard horror stories. These takes are spreading like wildfire through the fandom, with a heavy backing of white fans accepting and spreading anything that sounds vaguely racially-conscious as something they just missed in their privilege and need to listen to POC about. Or listen to other white fans that say they've been listening to POC.

The anchor hoist in 1x09 (that was a complete directing coincidence, as the crew confirmed in late May) is being taken as incontrovertible proof that Izzy is a violent racist, and the relatively small Izzy fandom pushing back against any of these reads is being likened to toxic fangirls declaring Kylo Ren a poor widdle victim because they think violent white guys are so hot their brains fall out. This is happening loudly and in the public forums of social media.

Can you imagine being David Jenkins right then?

This is one of your favorite little guys, who you wrote a silly little homoerotic pirate jealousy arc for. He's kinda cringefail and tends to be a dick, but you cast a guy who you think embodies him with so much sympathy and genuine emotion. You're so excited to explore his direct relationship to the main couple of your series even more. Unfortunately, you and a lot of the cast and crew are also engaging maybe a bit too much in fandom spaces, which very few of you have much familiarity with navigating as creators. AND there's still renewal stress!

If I were him, I too would consider that perhaps my intended Izzy arc was a bit too nuanced and drawn out, and maybe I needed to clear up some misconceptions as soon as I got the opportunity.

Enter S2.

MAX reduced the budget for the season significantly and it shows - particularly in the whole thing having to squeeze into 8 episodes - and I wouldn't be surprised at all if worries over a S3 renewal / S3 budget impacted S2 writing as well. Character arcs got pinched, goals had to be prioritized... and from the looks of the season, "make sure everyone knows Izzy is not a homophobic villain tormenting Edward as fast as possible" came out as a big goal.

I mean they open with a dream sequence that literally mocks the idea of a heroic Stede rescuing Edward from the dastardly Izzy. It's not subtle.

And the lack of subtlety is kind of what's concerning me.

Izzy's arc is (I think) leaving enough threads that they can extend it into S3 with the reveal he's not actually fine and done developing, but they also seem to want his S2 arc to end in a place where maybe he is. Lots of giant signs pointing to him and saying "Look! Everyone likes him!" or "Look! He's also gay!" at the expense of some of his cringefail or dickish charm. My guy had anxiety he dealt with poorly in S1, and I do think they are trying to frontload or adjust the arc so he's basically (or at least seemingly) over that before the next hiatus.

The best way I've seen it described is that the show no longer trusts the audience to pick up what they are putting down, and so they feel the need to really hammer it in. Not necessarily OOC, but definitely de-emphasizing any of his rough edges that were originally just written to not be any worse than the other characters.

This is why Izzy gets shot by Edward in the very first episode for a bunch of complicated reasons that are really good character work and not super hard to discern, but then later they have Izzy point out to Stede why he got shot twice. It's all very "look into the camera and say the themes", because to some degree they are afraid everyone is going to get easily convinced Edward shot him for calling him a namby-pamby that one time.

It makes me worried they are too afraid of misinterpretation to commit to the arc they originally conceived of, even with the finish line in sight in S3.

And, again, I get it, Mr. Jenkins. In October 2022 he made a funny quip and a boner joke on a tweet about Edward's blanket fort and the hordes descended to scream victoriously about how he was cutting down the Izzy stans for their racist infantilization crimes of thinking Izzy would *checks notes* help hold up a blanket. It's a very reasonable conclusion that this fandom cannot read and needs to be spoonfed Izzy's arc.

It just sucks that a toxic section of fandom's misinterpretations appear to have undercut a strong - and, honestly, not that complicated - character arc so much that S2's BlackBonnet arc can be about fuck ups and backsliding, but Izzy needs at least the illusion of having no flaws left come hiatus time.

#our flag means death #ofmd s2 #ofmd s2 spoilers #ofmd meta #my meta #izzy hands ofmd #izzy hands #character arcs #ofmd 2x06 #ofmd 2x07 #and here's my associated izzy meta because i love to talk about both my blorbos lol #ladyluscinia #david jenkins

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naranjapetrificada · 6 months

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Izzy becomes a "real boy"

So obviously I haven't been able to shut up about the way Izzy has been written in season 2 and I stand by my disappointment and criticism, even knowing that the writers were given a herculean task of cramming 10 pounds of season into an 8 pound bag. Even knowing that, his "arc" such as it is has felt very off to a lot of people, present company included. I'm a cogitator at heart (thanks AuDHD!) and that can turn "make it make sense" into a prime directive sometimes. So here I am, trying once again.

I felt a particular way about Izzy after the end of season 1, which I would describe as "not especially strongly" because I primarily saw his character as a storytelling tool/useful foil more than anything else. But his presence and characterization in season 2 have been haunting me this time and not in a good way, because I've spent this season trying and failing to make it make sense. But something just occurred to me that I hope I can explain in a coherent way:

If season 1 Izzy was more a storytelling tool than anything else, maybe season 2 was an attempt to turn the puppet into a Real Boy. And if so, maybe things did not go as planned.

There are so, so many good posts going into the things that don't work about how Izzy has been handled this season, to the point that I'm not gonna try reinventing the wheel. Some of the reasons it hasn't worked for some of us include:

Much of his alleged growth apparently happening offscreen, most likely due to the reduced budget and episode count.

The lack of connective tissue between many of his scenes, some of which can be attributed to the previous point about corporate fuckery but other parts of which are hard to explain beyond "idk I guess the writers felt like it?"

The unfortunate connotations of sidelining nonwhite characters like Jim, who was the only character beyond the central pair to receive a detailed backstory, flashbacks, and a multi-episode character arc

The unchecked racialized comments he gets to drop about Edward (calling him a "wild dog" or seemingly mixing him up with Roach) that in season 1, would have resulted in violent retribution as a sign of the story's disapproval

The lines we get from Izzy that feel like they should have been said by other characters, and maybe that would have been based on the expectations of the show that we left season 1 with

The way it seems like Izzy's suffering is being used as a stand-in for actual moments of reflection or atonement, which is a pretty fucked up dynamic to set up as precursor to redemption

The way Izzy now gets to partake in the very behaviors he denigrated in Ed last season, which would be a cool and moving character beat if there was a single, solitary narrative acknowledgement in the harm caused by his treatment of Ed in s1e10. Ditto for him apparently just being cool with shit that once would have been his worst nightmare.

The fact that so many of these issues could have been addressed in a quick throwaway line or two that showed that the narrative understood what was wrong to reassure us all because by definition if a character is getting a redemption arc, it's because they did something wrong, right?

There's plenty more of course, but that's not why I made this post. I made this post because regardless of why the decision was made to handle Izzy this way this season, the attempt was made to flesh him out in ways that his role last season may not have been initially written for. Con's performance and certain production choices hinted at a depth to his character that may or may not have been on the page, but helped make for a pretty interesting season 1 antagonist.

For season 2 they decided to make Izzy a real boy, but the combination of a reduced budget, a lower episode count, and whatever creative darlings they couldn't seem to kill in order to give us more development of his transformation made sticking the landing impossible because we're lacking certain elements for basic comprehension.

Imagine you know almost nothing of the story of Pinocchio and someone starts up the Disney movie version of it for you but it's a weirdly edited version of it. There's no narration from Jiminy Cricket, mostly because there's no Jiminy Cricket at all. We see Geppetto crafting a wooden puppet, but not the part where he wishes for him to be a real boy, which makes it kinda weird to then see the part where the fairy brings him to life and says he can become a real boy but okay, let's go with it.

Now let's say the one thing you've always heard about the story is that Pinocchio's nose grows when he lies. So we get to the scene where he lies to the fairy but for whatever reason, his nose doesn't grow. No one comments on the inconsistency, and when you mention the nose thing all anyone wants to talk about is how great Pinocchio's nose looks.

Then Pinocchio goes to Pleasure Island and while the animation and acting seem great as usual, and the language of cinema appears to be setting up something dark on the horizon. Then Pinocchio's new friend Lampwick starts transforming into a donkey, this random well-dressed cricket shows up to admonish Pinocchio, and our puppet friend is randomly immune to the thing turning other kids into donkeys. No one comments on that either. Maybe Pinocchio even gloats about it a little, which seems like a weird storytelling decision that merits a follow up discussion later.

And I guess this is the part of this over-extended metaphor where you remember you have somewhere to be but you'll finish the film later, because as an audience we won't know how things shake out for season 2 Izzy until the finale. Presumably we'll still get the scene where he magically turns into a real boy, but there isn't exactly time for anything else like all that stuff with the whale. Maybe the real boy scene will happen, but for whatever reason the animator kept drawing him like the wooden puppet and every time you point it out no one will take you seriously.

Wouldn't that be a weird thing to experience?

#ofmd #our flag means death #ofmd s2 spoilers #ofmd s2 #ofmd meta #izzy hands #izzy critical #not really critical but that tag is useful for people's filters #ofmd season 2 #ofmd spoilers #ofmd season 2 spoilers #our flag means death spoilers #tbh I don't even understand how Izzy fans feel good about his arc #if this happened to a secondary character I loved I would be pretty upset

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darkfire359 · 6 months

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What could have been: sympathizing with Ed in season 2

I've talked before about how much I love Ed and all his complexity. I've written more fanfic about him and Izzy than any other characters, in my entire history of fandom. And unlike many people, I wasn't unprepared for the dark direction his arc took in season 2; I wanted him to commit MORE atrocities, and I happily made comparisons between him and another one of my favorite characters, Hannibal Lector.

But one of the key things I wanted after he committed atrocities was for him to feel bad about it. And I thought we'd see that! After all, S1 Ed was so tormented about killing his dad (who was abusive and violent towards) him that he never killed (directly) again! He was so broken up about trying to kill Stede in s1e6 that he ended up crying in a bathtub. Just like he cried in the window sill after committing all the kraken horrors in s1e10. It seemed like this was a guy scared of his own inner darkness, convinced he was a monster, who would go around saying things like "I'm not a good person" and "You were always going to realize who I am."

And so even when s2 went darker than anyone expected—when he cut off more of Izzy's toes, and shot him in the leg, and made crewmen fight to the death for experiencing love, and sailed the entire ship into a storm to murder-suicide his crew—I was still ready to accept all that moral ambiguity and give him a hug afterwards. Because of course, I figured that after Ed was brought out of that dark place and those suicidal urges, he would feel horrible remorse. How could he not?

I was looking forward to seeing him break down crying, convinced he was an irredeemable, unforgivable monster. (Which of course, would make it all the more touching when people inevitably did forgive him, and when he did redeem himself). Maybe Ed would even go too far with trying to atone, like in Mercy, one of my favorite post-s1 fics. Probably, I figured, Ed's quest for redemption would be one of the main themes in the second half of season 2.

So it was strange to watch e4, when Ed looked nothing but annoyed at everyone for chaining him up and banishing him, and then he went to hang out with his old friends like he'd done nothing wrong. When after the crew unanimously voted him out, Stede brought him back to the ship literally that same evening, and Ed saw no problem with that. Okay... maybe he's still processing?

Then e5 came, and that episode was about Ed's redemption. Yay! Except... Ed didn't seem to care? Other people made him wear the bag and the bell. He asked how long it'd take people to get over it, guessing "like a day." He gave an influencer-esque non-apology to the crew. He said "I took a man's leg" rather than calling Izzy by name. He literally doesn't remember the circumstances of pushing Lucius off the boat. He does ultimately give a real apology to Fang—for tormenting him years ago, rather than anything from his actual kraken era. I love e5 for the Izzy+Stede dynamic, but watching Ed be an unrepentant asshole here is painful. There is nothing about this that convinces me Ed wouldn't slide right back to being evil if Stede were to leave again.

And the thing is, it didn't have to be like this! We could have gotten Ed breaking down crying with guilt like in s1e6, and it would have made him much more sympathetic—not to mention the fact that Ed really is just an adorable cryer. Alternatively, we could have had some real deep diving about why Ed never apologizes (is he afraid of seeming weak?) or why he's so uncaring about others' pain (has he seen too many friends die over the years, to the point of going numb?)

By episode 6, it seems like most characters have moved on. Stede says something about Ed turning poison into positivity, which feels completely unearned. He pays for the party—but he'd previously tried to make the crew throw their cut of the loot into the ocean. He makes some attempts to best Ned and protect Stede, but Stede ends up saving the crew instead—from a pirate who only showed up in the first place because Ed was intentionally trying to piss him off. Ed is sad that Stede kills someone, and this would be a great time to again make Ed sympathetic! To have him talk about how he doesn't want that for Stede, because his own violence has weighed on him so deeply. But nope.

E6 does see Ed actually apologize to Izzy—and he's terrible at it. He's just like, "Sorry about your leg," makes no eye contact, and flees immediately afterwards. We do see some hints that this shitty apology isn't really indicative of Ed's true feelings, given how he has those flashbacks to the scenes of hurting Izzy seemingly haunting him; but it's very brief. It would be a great time to address Ed's horrific tendency towards conflict-aversion and avoiding awkward conversations in relationships—the same tendency that made s1 Ed never inform Izzy that the plan to kill Stede and the Revenge crew had changed. This would be another great opportunity to help us sympathize with Ed again—to have us see how it's not that he doesn't want to communicate these things, it's that these conversations are terribly stressful and anxiety-inducing for him. But nah, why would OFMD need to include those things for Ed?

E7 happens, and still nothing. If anything, there was a great opportunity for Ed to at least show himself to be a kind person to Stede—maybe nobly stepping in to save the day, even though he's annoyed that Stede's getting all this attention now. You know, like Stede did for him back in s1e5, when the situation was reversed. But nope, Ed runs off to be a fisherman, not having learned any of the earlier season's lessons about whims. He only stops being a fisherman because he's bad at it.

I was still hoping for something big in e8–some huge selfless, gesture that Ed would do to cover for all of his inability to do the little gestures. Ed is good at grand gestures! Swimming back to the ship after he left, then taking the Act of Grace in s1 was HUGE. Very selfless, very sweet! He could have done something like that for Izzy, Lucius, and the traumatized crew. Some kind of heroic gesture to help others more than himself. But nope. In some sense, Izzy dying is one of the greatest indications of Ed's wasted potential, because we narratively had a great opportunity for Ed to be able to save someone... but he didn't.

(Admittedly, Ed is not a complete dick here—he helps Izzy when he's limping, he says some genuinely apologetic stuff when Izzy's dying, and he finally gives Izzy his attention and care. But then after the funeral, he's still like "Well, that's that.")

It's so frustrating. It's not that I don't want to like Ed, or that I don't want to sympathize with him. I really, REALLY do! I don't even need Ed to successfully do anything to earn forgiveness! I'd take Ed trying and failing. I'd take him wanting to try, but being so convinced of his monstrousness that he never makes the attempt. But give me something. Anything other than the unexamined apathy that he has so much of the time.

The thing is, s2 lost the ability for Ed's mistreatment of people to be just another "of course he's violent, he's a pirate" quirk. They were pretty explicit about how abusive Ed was (Jim's comment in e1, the joke in e4 people assumed Ed had hit Stede) and how much he traumatized people (Lucius and the whole crew very clearly have PTSD in episodes 4 and 5). This is serious stuff, which he did to other main characters, which is going to make a lot of viewers look at him pretty harshly.

And that's manageable—Hannibal Lector managed to be most textbook-abusive asshole in the world, committing atrocities and generally being unrepentant left and right, and viewers STILL found him lovable and sympathetic. You can do that! But you need to:

a. make it clear that anyone with the relevant information calls them out for being awful, even multiple episodes later

b. make it clear that they care deeply and genuinely about their wronged loved ones

c. make them willing to actually make REAL sacrifices

I watched so many people start to dislike or outright hate Ed in season 2. It made me really sad. But I couldn't blame them for feeling that way. For all that Ed is supposedly one of the two protagonists in OFMD—a character whose mistakes should be the most understandable, whose mental state should be the most resonant—the show seemed to entirely drop the ball on writing him as such.

#edward teach #ofmd critical #ofmd season 2 #ofmd season 2 spoilers #ofmd #our flag means death #izzy hands #arguably the writers' mistake with Izzy is easier to fix in fanfiction #just undo the last 10 minutes #but now I feel like Ed fics after s2 have to fix huge chunks of his characterization #I also think it'd be more reasonable to make Ed not give a shit about the crew if the show just like... admitted that directly?#but we've got Stede making comments about Ed turning poison into positivity #we've got Izzy saying the crew loves Ed and is his family #and while it's not OOC for either of them to just be delusional and overprojecting their own love for Ed #it's weirdly unexamined #same thing with Ed's “I don't kill people thing” after he murders British officers left and right in s2e8 #was Ed's whole talk with Stede in s1e6 just a lie?#obviously Ed was stretching definitions / using it as a coping mechanism but I thought he was at least telling the truth as he saw it

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thegoldenhoof · 6 months

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Poison into Positivity - Why we should have revisited The Talent Show.

Prefacing this, that as a Izzy lover, I loved the Calypso’s birthday episode. Perfect. No notes. Except that maybe it should have been longer

But boy did Ed get done dirty in that episode (and Stede but I am making my peace with this is just who Stede is. Being a better person was never his character’s motivation).

Perhaps nothing has bothered me about the whole of Ed’s arc as the poison to positivity comment because, Girl! Where? What exactly did you do to earn that? Ed threw some money at the problem and sat back which made sense in a sad way because it is a very Stede way of doing things. At least Season 1 Stede ( but again we are not talking about Stede here). And Ed was following his cues. This is Youtuber apology the sequel.

But in contrast, imagine if we had gotten The Talent Show- Take 2

A repeated problem that many posts have talked about in this season is that it was unwilling to face the trauma that it set up and look it in the eye and deal with it. So much of the show had become “shit happens move on”.

But revisiting the idea of The Talent Show for Calypso’s Birthday party would have been amazing imo and here is why…

The Chekhov's gun was already set up with Lucius mentioning it in the previous episode

This season had been spoonfeeding us Season 1 flashbacks and references and this would have fit in perfectly with the pattern.

Ed’s side of it was as set up with him not remembering the show at all. We have been told repeatedly that Ed rewrites his memories/forgets things that are uncomfortable to him.

Repraising the talent show would have worked as a shorthand for Ed actually confronting his past and would have been an opportunity to genuinely make himself vulnerable in contrast to the youtuber apology.

It would have reminded the crew that this was still the man who they cared for at one point, who just did some fucked up shit because he was hurting.

It would have shown the audience that the crew was able to look at a painful past experience and rewrite those memories with a better version if it- a stand-in for them moving past the trauma of the Kraken era and being willing to rewrite those memories with this new Ed.

Izzy could have joined Ed’s song putting it in contrast with Izzy’s anger and confusion of Season 1.

Ed is singing some old song. He hears the uneven stomp of the peg leg behind him and stops. Cue bad memories.

Izzy’s voice takes up the song. He turns back to look at Izzy and he is revealed to us, in all his Drag glory, looking equally nervous until they both give a tentative smile and continue with the song.

Ed turns to Stede pulling him into a dance. Izzy turns to Calypso kissing her hand. They are singing the same song but the have their own people to dance with now.

a) This would have given us a peek into their joint past, a happier time and laid a foundation to the relationship they are hinting at in the death scene with Ed’s “You are my only family” because we haven’t actually seen that relationship between them in either of the seasons.

b) It would have given us a transition between the earlier drunk Izzy-avoidant Ed scene and the absolute tonal whiplash of the next day morning after scene by having an on screen truce/resolution.

c) It would have shows them as two people on diverse paths who are even now still tied by their past. They too are trying to rewrite what that past should mean now with hopefully better associations.

This means we lose La vie en Rose the, I’d make that sacrifice for some actual character growth. (We could still have had that performance over the end titles/longer post credit maybe?)

8. This would actually fit in with the message of turning poison into positivity for both Ed and the crew and Ed and Izzy. It would also have had Ed make an emotional investment in that transition and not a monetary one so he has actually earned that comment.

9. It would have made Ned’s interruption much more painful because Ed is trying to make amends for something he did here and another consequence of his actions have come crashing in.

Cue Stede killing Ned but now it doubles down on the “You don’t have to do this alone. I’m here beside you helping you (however badly) too” message.

Overall…

The larger events of the episode don’t change.

Just a few dialogues here and there and maybe trim the Ed giving money to the kids scene (Because what? Why? I dont care u gave them a knife. Those kids are getting murdered within a couple of days. Good job Ed!).

So little changes. And yet there was so much potential for shifting the tone and not putting all their eggs into the one basket that they were planning to smash with a hammer.

#ofmd #ed teach #blackbeard #izzy hands #calypso’s birthday #ofmd critical?

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squidinkedcreative · 3 months

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aaaaaaa brain is putting things together about izzy and i just :( damn

also going to say this now that if ur an izzy hater, this post isnt for u! pls dont engage :) thank u

saw art with a quote from a post about izzy, talking about how some people find it touching that he’s buried in the yard of the inn, but this person didn’t. it made them feel sick because he’s buried there like a dog. and just first of all yeah. at first it was touching to me bc of that sentiment that they’re keeping him near them, even in death, but the more i thought on it the more my stomach also churned.

i know djenks had the best intentions with how izzy’s character and arc were treated but jfc ya missed the mark. by a wide margin. like hello???? having the entire point of his arc in season two be discovering himself and growing into himself, hell even standing up for himself and letting himself hold on a little looser to his baggage and just put down the baggage he chose to carry on behalf of the man he loved only for him to die like an episode or two later. and the crew acts like nothing happened just. it doesnt sit right with me and it hasnt since the first time i saw it.

i know its for “plot” reasons, but there was no other way to convey any of this than maiming him like the family dog nobody actually likes??? like a grimy mutt?? without him LITERALLY DYING????????????????? AT THE VERY END OF THE SEASON??????? AND NOT EVEN HAVE THAT BE THE MAIN MESSAGE FOR THE REST OF THE EPISODE??? you had to stomp all over his dead body with a fucking wedding. yes yes good for lucius and pete i really do love them and i am happy for them, but its like they all just. moved on. and forgot about izzy. and trust me i am FULLY aware of how complex grief is, but still. it stings. it feels like its watering down the impact izzy had on everyone on the crew.

he and the kraken’s crew grew so close that they tried to keep him alive even tho they all knew if the kraken found out, they’d all be paying with blood. they MADE HIM. A PROSTHETIC. AND PAINTED IT. they cheered him on when he came out in drag and sang in fucking FRENCH!!!!!!! and then he dies and like 3 minutes later theres a wedding and another party. it feels tasteless. it feels demeaning.

and i 100% think djenks roped izzy and ed into the Bury Your Gays trope without thinking that through. elder queer man who is traumatized dozens of times over who just fucking came to terms with himself AND WHO JUST CONFESSED HIS LOVE TO EDWARD!!!! dies. shortly after that, timeline wise. thats the fucking trope. it’s literally right there.

AND THEN. they fucking bury him in the YARD. LIKE A DOG. in the far corner where they wont see it and be reminded of him every day. out of sight out of mind. they’ll move on and grow old together, blissfully happy, while izzy’s bones are the only thing left of the man who once was Israel Hands, First Mate to the legendary Blackbeard. he never got to have his mutual pining moment, he never got to find the true love of his life and grow old with them. he doesnt get to die fulfilled, with labored breaths, as old age takes him. he gets to sit and watch from the corner as ed and stede, his ex of sorts and the guy he replaced him with, live that happily ever after. he gets to sit in the corner like a bad dog and watch as these two get everything he ever wanted. just like the unwanted family pet.

it makes me ill. he deserved so much better. he deserves better than doggy heaven, he deserves better than being roped into the fucking Bury Your Gays trope too.

#ofmd #izzy hands #our flag means death #ofmd izzy hands #ofmd s2 #ofmd s2 spoilers #our flag means death s2 spoilers #our flag means death season 2 #our flag means death s2 #israel hands #just thinking about this a lot tonight :)#deff normal thinking :) yep :)

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edandstede · 5 months

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i think canon izzy is an interesting character who is played very well but every day i’m SO FUCKING GLAD his arc came to its natural end and he died because all his fucked up racist fans have shown their entire arses with their behaviour. now what i REALLY hate is how almost ALL the conversation post s2 is around this one white dude - people doing insane mental gymnastics to minimise his actions and explain why he was actually right for abusing ed or why he didn’t actually do anything wrong and why ed is really the toxic violent one making izzy his victim and i am not even TOUCHING that backwards meta claiming stuff i couldn’t even dream up while high. something about jesus and aids? yeah because that makes sense you insensitive out-of-touch dickheads.

seriously if you hate the show now then prove it and shut the fuck up, move on, it clearly was never for you if you can misinterpret it this badly on purpose. the izzy you’re a fan of doesn’t fucking exist, you made him up in your heads and got mad when the canon character didn’t fit your woobified poor meow meow version. you wanted izzy to be a victim so fucking badly and he just isn’t. he is NOT. he repeatedly threatened and goaded and emotionally manipulated the main character - an openly gay indigenous brown man who expressed his emotions and wore effeminate clothing, who was actively depressed and suicidal - and he fucked around and found out as a result. he had ed released to him like his fucking property by the english after almost having the man ed loved executed in front of him and you think ed is the antagonist here? you think ed is wrong for reaching his breaking point and lashing out exactly how izzy repeatedly begs him to? he wanted blackbeard and he fucking got it.

anyway like FUCK ME there is a whole cast of excellent and interesting characters who don’t get talked about nearly as much, ESPECIALLY characters like jim and olu, roach and zheng, spanish jackie, hell ED HIMSELF. they’re sidelined by fandom racists constantly to make room for this one dude who was an out and out homophobic racist bully and dick for 90% of the show.

stop pissing your pants for 5 seconds and accept izzy (a side character there to accompany ed’s arc) was a canon antagonist with internalised issues who dealt ed (one of two main characters) a LOT of damage, but ultimately actively tried to change and embrace the crew and their ways on the revenge. he found his place in that family, that is a GOOD THING, and he died having found a peace most pirates like him don’t ever get to have. yes, ed lashed out and hurt him, and it was a direct consequence of the violence izzy THREATENED OUT OF HIM. izzy himself acknowledges his part in ed’s pain at the end, so you can too! how about that? if you can’t wrap your head around these very easy to understand plot points then just fuck off at this point y’know? literally just fuck off and find a different show because clearly the canon story of this one isn’t for you.

you cunts are fucking insufferable and have made this character one i don’t wanna touch at all, any post about him just makes me recoil because some fans just could not be normal about him.

now can we get some quality posts about literally anyone else

#done talking about him #can we make some space for any other character now please #quill to paper #personal

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blue-b-bro · 6 months

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Izzy and the candles

(kinda about Izzy's arc)

So I’ve finally sat down and looked closely into the candle scenes and after analyzing them, I’ve came to the conclusion, that they’re about the state of Izzy’s feeling towards Ed, how he deals with them. (if you have other ideas please share)

Let’s look at the scenes, shall we? (it's Izzy's POV, not what I think about his actions)

S1e3:

- He's not interested in meeting. - What? - 🕯️I explicitly told him… Blackbeard desired his company.

- But does he know who I am?

- Seemed to, yeah.🕯️ - And still, he said no. - You can "go suck eggs in hell" was his response, I believe. - Fascinating.

Why at that moment? Well, I think he didn’t lie, or at least he didn’t think he did. So he’s not punishing himself or anything. It’s about the whole conflict in s1: Izzy desires Ed’s company, wants Ed to desire his company. Izzy thinks, he knows Ed, but it turns out, he doesn’t know him so well.

He’s burning his hand by getting too close, just like his possessiveness ultimately only hurts him and Ed in the process. His feelings are so intense it’s actually destructive.

S1e7:

“🕯️Bonnet comes along, and he's like, "Oh, Oh, Blackbeard, I really love... I love the way you dress. I love the way your hair, your beard, and all that." I tell ya, I would've ripped his fuckin' head off. And I would have had him, too, I would have had him…🕯️”

And what is he doing just after that? Making a deal with the English. Proving that his selfish desire only makes it worse for both of them: Ed leaves him, Izzy made him work for the king.

S2e5:

Now, we need context. After Ed’s visit in s2e2 Izzy realized, that his selfish actions harmed not only him, but actually Ed too. That he was actively helping Ed kill himself, that Ed expected him, to just go with the plan, because he was his boss. That he was a bad first mate, because he almost killed his captain instead of protecting him, and that his way of love was bad, because it made Ed so miserable. So he metaphorically killed his old self (by trying to actually do it), stopped Ed, freed from his orders, and saved the crew.

He kept it mostly together until the crew was saved by Stede and then, there was nothing for him to do, no use for him. He may have did that big gesture to become his new self, but that didn’t erase his regrets. He felt responsible for Ed’s state, felt it was his fault for not doing his job, for making Ed hate him, for being useless, everything mixed in one miserable mess. He expected the crew to just let him die from overdrinking, because why would they care? They’re safe now, they have Stede. When the crew made him the new leg, he decided to give himself a second chance, stops drinking and tries to find a way to be of use (see? He didn’t get over it at all)

In e5, right after Ed’s apology (“And whatever that nasty, dark stuff was that brought us here, it's in the past. Which is all I want to say, at the end of the day, is we're trying to move the culture forward.”) he starts whittling the shark. The whole episode is about moving on, but Izzy doesn’t do that. He just buries his feelings deeper.

“Well, this is a pirate ship and I'm a pirate, so, yeah. I'm good with it.” He tells himself that that’s how it is, just like Archie said: “They get away with it and we move on”. Izzy doesn’t expect any apology, doesn’t think he deserves any, but he’s still hurt, he’s still unmoored, without any clear direction in life.

- So this is where all my candles went. And you've used the good ones. - Yep. I'm having to relearn the basics with one leg. [🕯️] - The basics? I think my basics might be a bit more basic than your basics. Actually, it recently occurred to me that... - That you know nothing? That you're a shitty Captain, yeah? - I don't know about that. But Blackbeard did say he credited you with a lot of his skills. - Yeah, well, Blackbeard says a lot of things. But what did he say about me specifically? - Well, specifically, he said you taught him everything he knows. Made him the Captain he is today. Perhaps I could learn at the feet of one of the greats. - Foot. - Oh, yes, foot. Sorry. - Ya know, maybe I could teach even you a thing or two.

“I'm having to relearn the basics with one leg.” He’s basically saying he’s starting anew. He decided to forget the past, to kill his feelings for Ed, all that hurt and sorrow and guilt, just move on.

“Don't know what you're talkin' about. A shark did this. Dangling my legs over the side of the ship. Served me right, too.” It was all his own fault, so he doesn’t need any apology. It was to be expected, so there’s no need to feel hurt or betrayed.

S2e8:

Izzy was telling himself it was his fault he got treated like that by Ed, it was just how pirate’s life worked, everything's fine, but at the same time Stede was happy, grateful and nice to him all episode, showing him, that no, it doesn’t have to work like that, it didn’t have to work like that. His relationship with Ed didn’t have to look like it looked, he could have had better relationship with Ed, if only he let him.

In e6 he’s drinking again.

they both know it’s not about the weather. it’s about Ed’s feelings, Ed feeling it was all too nice and something has to go bad eventually. And Izzy’s on his new track, trying to keep Ed in this better place, the one he so desperately tried to get him out of in s1. He now knows his relationship with Ed and Ed’s life was so miserable because of him, and he tries to fix it, to help Ed get rid of bad habits.

Izzy probably didn’t know how to respond, having mixed feelings about it since he was all about how it was his own fault and Ed apologizing actually contradicts it, forcing Izzy to acknowledge his suffering that he so strongly tried to repress.

“Turn the poison into positivity” it’s kinda like a response to s1e5 where Izzy was opposed/shocked by open culture on the Revenge and now, knowing his old ways were wrong he actually stops, asks what’s that about and tries himself. Izzy sings about looking at the world through rose-tinted glasses, and I think it’s about him wishing Ed and Stede well.

Izzy decided to focus on helping Ed and Stede in their relationship. He realized he was the reason for Ed’s unhappiness, it was him, who made him worse by trying to keep him to himself, and so his own feelings don't matter. His feelings for Ed don't matter, his love doesn't matter, and that’s why he’s all helpful, but at the same time looks tired. After Ed leaves Stede, Izzy finds him at the bar, (always with Stede when Ed isn’t around). He tells him he thinks they’re good for each other, comforts Stede, is ok with talking about their feelings for Ed. He tries to protect Stede from his auto destructive behavior post breakup (not just going along, like with Ed).

Now we’re at e8 finally:

- 🕯️Can't believe I have an audience with the great Israel Hands. That's absolutely astounding. I've always thought you were underrated. I mean, it's absurd, isn't it? Isn't it? That Blackbeard, he gets all this praise, when you are quite clearly the brains of this operation?🕯️ (playing with fire in a safe way, calm) - Ya don't know the first thing about piracy, do ya? - Don't I? - It's not about glory. It's not about gettin' what you want. It's about belonging to something when the world has told you you're nothin'. It's about finding the family to kill for when yours are long dead. It's about letting go of ego for something larger. The crew.

“when you are quite clearly the brains of this operation” Izzy feels responsible for all the bad things that happened to Ed, for his unhappiness. He wanted to follow and serve Blackbeard, not to replace him. He and Ed created Blackbeard, why would he want to have something that was already his? When Blackbeard got all the praise, Izzy was proud. The only praises he needed was those from Ed. (I don't mean he didn't care about being respected by others but appreciated)

“It's not about glory. It's not about gettin' what you want. It's about belonging to something when the world has told you you're nothin'. It's about finding the family to kill for when yours are long dead. It's about letting go of ego for something larger. The crew.”

It’s about Izzy abandoning his selfish desire to be with Ed, to have Ed’s full attention, to have his love, and focusing about caring for others, for his family (Ed and the crew), about their happiness.

And you know what? I think it could’ve been Izzy’s idea to go with Ricky, to be on the front line. That’s very like him and I don’t see other reason for it. The crew is protective of Izzy, it wouldn’t be their idea.

- Ed, I'm sorry. I've been terrible to you. - No, I'm sorry. - No. - What are you apologizing for? I should be the one who's apologizing. - I fed your darkness… Blackbeard. For years, I egged him on, even though I knew you'd outgrown him, but the truth is… I needed him. Blackbeard... it was us. You, me.

I’m happy he said that, I’m happy they finally talked. I’m happy Izzy finally said out laud how unwell he is inside.

bonus:

(⚠️ here comes finale criticism, you’ve been warned ⚠️)

But him dying there was as if Ed died in e5! Oh, he realized his mistakes and started to fix them, but still is very messed up inside. That’s Ed in e5-6. And somehow he got to live after apologizing to Fang, hmm? Yeah, it was very in character for Izzy to get himself killed for Ed, to apologize for his great crimes of *checks hand* misunderstanding, being confused and selfish and being in love with Ed. Understandable. Ed can realize he’s actually worthy of love and forgiveness, but Izzy isn’t? Izzy would agree, but that’s not the point. He wasn’t on the arc towards healing. He was on the arc of realizing how bad of an influence he was and then dying . He was marinating that thought since s2e2. How fun.

Like, yeah, he realized he was selfish and fixed his wrongdoings. But he also thought he was worthless and, ekhem, defiled his captain with his love, wait where did I hear that...

#our flag means death #Ofmd #Ofmd s2 #izzy hands #ofmd meta #edizzy #My bitching at the end is optional lol

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mysteriouslybluepirate · 6 months

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Initial reaction to episode 8:

Full spoilers. Don't read if you haven't watched. But don't be afraid to comment if you agree or disagree.

Izzy got 1 week (at most) of a life where he felt like he could be himself.

That's it.

This man lost so fucking much, clearly his family, his past crews, himself. So the show said, hey. Let's spend ALL season showing him he is loved, then tell the audience this is a good ending because hey, now Ed can be himself for no loose ends.

I know we might get zombie izzy. I know buttons is probably a deus ex machina(yes, I gasped SO FUCKING HARD when the seagul landed), but I am fucking livid.

I'm sorry this is negative right off the bat. I cried yeah, but it was at Izzy apologizing for not letting Ed grow. The 1 final sin he hadn't been punished for. He apologized and lost limbs for the British thing. That was IT. The only thing Izzy haters had against him. And here we are.

Now that izzy is dead, their old Unicorn, the NEW Revenge can go live on.

Ex-fucking'scuse me?

The worst part is I knew he'd get hurt with that speech.

Congrats, izzy, you got 'woman in the fridged'-ed. Your death now ends Ed's problems without him needing to solve them. Ed doesn't need to work on rebuilding relationships because there's nothing left. Stedes is not mad at Ed, so no hard conversations there, and the crew he hurt is gone now. Izzys gone. All wrapped up in a nice little bow.

I knew. But I thought I'd be wrong. That Ed would get help. That izzy would apologize, lay their dying, and suddenly be alright via bird or someone would do SOMETHING. But no. I got to see Izzy die. In a fucking comedy show.

A comedy show about love and family and community and self acceptance. That kills of its 1 character this season who had a self realization arc outside of a romance.

Season 3 will be about either 1.) Stede and Ed being hunted and needing to fake their deaths or 2.) The crew of the 'new revenge' going on adventures. Or 3.) Zombie izzy getting the fuck out of there and finding love.

Now:I am in denial.

Con came out, mainly because of this community and this role. If he knew his character was dying, I don't think he'd have gone to cons/tied himself in with this community to the extent he has. You know? Like... if my role i got a ton of praise for was about to be offed, id smile at conventions, but already emotionally start distancing myself from the community. UNLESS-We know Jenkins would tell him the fate of his character, so...idk.

More ranting but-

I feel like we got more time watching Ed be silly than mourning his friend of potentially decades. I hate the fish plot. We already knew he had adhd and that this was a whim. 'Ed going out, catching dinner, getting kicked back' could have just been 'Ed rows out while the ship's blow up'. They didn't need Ed and stede to fight in episode 7, stede could have just gotten into a fight trying to defend Ed at the bar, maybe eds too drunk idk. Episode 7 was written like that just to have a cliffhanger resolved in the next episode. It's just...

I loved every fucking izzy scene and both love/hate that we get a flash of the shot that kills him. It's real, yeah. Izzy dies here because he was still originally in that pirate drama he made up in his head. Izzy dies a normal death. Ed asked if he needed help so many times. But izzy didn't want it.

Izzy hands wanted to die this entire time. He wanted it. That's how I'm interpreting this bullshit. He still tied himself to blackbeard, and wanted to die with him.

Maybe that's romantic, but I think it's gross and a mishandling of his character. If izzy believed that i wish we got to see it as the audience, Especially how some forms of suicidality can be expressed by 'one last hurah'.. But they didn't. All that, and the show wants us to believe he's moving on up to episode 7, until now we know izzy was jealous this whole time??? So this izzy was just izzy waiting until Ed was accepted by the crew to die. Till Ed didn't need him to be his punching bag anymore. When Ed healed he saw no point in living. 🙃 that a character who was suicidal's good ending is offing themselves when they aren't 'needed'?

Maybe izzy will come back, totally himself, ready to try to live a happy life. But I have very little fucking faith.

Getting personal: but izzy was my fucking guy. I related to his struggle to be seen/heard/taken seriously. To be liked or seen as worthy of time and attention. A character who was trying his best for the people he cared about. Who had valid concerns and was talked down to. Who craved belonging. Enough that he's desperate for scraps of friendship. A person who was feared but never understood.

To give him 'love' by a community and then have him die TWO DAYS LATER-

I hate it. I genuinely hate it. Fucking hell. Especially how quickly everyone moved on. Izzy would have been wrecked or at least shaken up if his crew died yet. WE'RE MAKING JOKES RIGHT AFTER HES BEEN BURIED. ON TOP OF HIS FRESH GRAVE. I hate that izzy got buried on the land (in general. Bro should have been buried at sea) especiallg the labd ed and stede now get to peacefully live on. I hate that con was fucking smiling, the calmest most authentic he could and ATE that fucking scene.

The thing that gets me is izzy is the cliffhanger. But at the same time, Buttons' turning into a bird represented change and acceptance. Think, we had Buttons' turning scene, the song 'seaguls', then izzy standing on deck reading the note. There's a real chance this is implying that izzy is free now.

I don't hate the show. I don't, but i fucking hate THIS. Con did Such an amazing job. But I hate that I won't know. That izzy being alive will be confirmed in a year when con accidentally posts something revealing he's on set, or Jenkins on Twitter telling us he's dead, us not believing him, then we watch all of s3 and cons not there. That I could spend the next 2 years of my life writing about a character who won't get mentioned again.

THEY COULD HAVE CONFIRMED IT IN THE END CREDITS. SOMETHING. Ground shaking, some hint early in the season about rebirth and brining back the dead or have the sword fall. Idk. SOMETHING.

I'm just.... not doing great. I'm 'excited' to watch it again :/ but fucking hell. I don't know if I want to. I still have a fic to post that I started pre season 2, but after that I might need time. I just...Izzy wasn't me, duh, but he was, you know?

Izzy didn't deserve death for being harsh, or fucking up, or living. The fact his redemption happens after they sand down izzys rough edges feels gross. Like. "Here you go audience He's 'good' now, NOW feel sad about his death!"

And I'm sorry. But fuck that. I have so many mutuals who say they didn't like how quickly izzy became soft. This fucking hurts.

Because izzy has been a dead man walking for years. Ever since Ed and he grew into whatever this is. He could have been given a chance. He wasn't. All because our protagonists are Ed and Stede. WHO I ACTUALLY LIKED THIS EPISODE. But I can't think about that because I just see Ed finally treating Izzy like an EQUAL as he's fucking dying. I was always okay with the idea of Izzy dying. But not like this.

So yeah...sorry if this is rambling, had a shit day before I watched the ep and the ep didn't fucking help! But here's to all us izzy fans hoping for a better s3 for him (my guess now is izzy is actually dead, I have absolutely 0 faith he'll come back, as izzys death was framed as a positive thing for Ed. Yes the framing is there. Izzys body is safe under Ed and Stedes watch and not drowning. But still. 0 faith. If we dont get s3, then izzy is just dead and everyone moved on the SAME DAY)

Side note- I hate the only mention of Izzys given name 'Israel' was by Ricky. Fucking...okay. add that to the pile

#izzy hands #ofmd s2 #ofmd season 2 #ofmd s2 ep8 #ofmd s2ep8 #i fucking. .#i hate this #ofmd s2 spoilers #ofmd season 2 spoilers #logging off for a bit #good luck

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infernal-house-demon · 6 months

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I have a million thoughts about the ending of ofmd. I think overall it felt a bit rushed, through no fault of djenks or anyone else, but because they were given less episodes to work with.

All things considered with a shortened season and budget cuts I think they pulled it off pretty well.

The one thing that I just can’t get past is Izzy. Don’t read any further if you don’t want spoilers.

so, David Jenkins has said that the plan was always to kill Izzy off. And honestly, I think there was a way to do that where I still could have been satisfied with the ending even if I didn’t like seeing my fave die. But because it was a shorter season, it felt rushed. There was barely any time for mourning, to really feel the impact of his death. Even if it had been to save one of the crew that might have made it feel more congruent with his arc this season. But it was so sudden and we didn’t get time to sit with it before everyone quickly moved on to their happy endings. It just felt like such tonal whiplash.

(I also in general have a real disdain for the trope of traumatized characters only finding rest or redemption in death. But that’s more of a personal preference.)

I can totally understand why Izzy would have to die from a symbolic perspective. As he says to Ed in his final scene, they were both a part of Blackbeard. However, he also spent this season growing outside of that relationship, building a family with the crew and finding out who he wanted to be. From a queer perspective, it felt really jarring watching a character like that finally come into his own only to die shortly after (I am absolutely not saying that it was homophobic. I am just saying as a queer person it was hard to watch that journey end that way. This show is the farthest thing from homophobic.) Also the symbolism of his leg and him being part of the Revenge only to die and be left behind? Really painful to watch. (Also I have feelings about the disabled character being the one to get killed off but idk quite how to write about that right now)

My final gripe, was his death scene. Everyone acted beautifully in it, as usual. And I’m glad that he apologized to Ed for his role in feeding into Blackbeard. But I didn’t like that it was all about Edward. The line where Izzy tells him he has a family and they love him felt so out of place. Because we’ve seen very little this season of Ed interacting with the crew (after terrorizing them as Blackbeard of course), but beyond making general amends his story has been focused a lot on him and Stede this season. Izzy is the one we’ve been seeing find a family with these people.

Anyway, I think they did a decent job all things considered and it’s not their fault it felt rushed. Con O’Neill is an acting master and I loved watching him do his thing. I feel kind of bad for complaining about the ending because this show has given me so much in terms of representation and queer joy, but this one moment just doesn’t sit right with me. Overall very grateful for this show and I will miss Izzy so so so much.

#I did not mean for this to be so long #I guess I had a lot of thoughts #anyway I’m heartbroken #ofmd #our flag means death #Izzy hands #edward teach #the revenge #ofmd spoilers #our flag means death spoilers #ofmd s2 spoilers

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londonspirit · 6 months

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Our Flag Means Death has just wrapped up its sophomore season, and it’s time to say goodbye to our favorite pirates for, well, at least another year. Streaming service MAX hasn’t renewed the workplace comedy/action-adventure show for a third season, but if the numbers are anything to go by, they would be foolish not to start talking about it.

David Jenkins, the writer/creator and sometime director of Our Flag Means Death, did a finale postmortem interview with io9, and we talk endings, piracy, and how comic actors and serious actors mesh. A quick warning, this interview is literally about the last episode of Our Flag Means Death, and contains spoilers. Proceed with caution.

So, here’s the thing; Jenkins and I have spoken a few times about Our Flag Means Death. He knows that I adore this show. He also knows that I adore Izzy Hands (Con O’Neill), the beleaguered first mate and jilted lover of the central couple of Blackbeard (Taika Waititi) and Stede Bonnet (Rhys Darby). He has also been keeping a secret from me for months: In this last episode of season 2, Izzy Hands dies.

“Are you mad at me?” Jenkins asked, almost plaintive as we said our ‘Hello’s under the auspices of the designated MAX PR person. “Oh, well. I’m not really mad at you, but I am disappointed,” I responded. “I think I’m sad at you.” This, he said, is worse.

At the end of the season, Izzy Hands dies in Blackbeard’s arms, giving Blackbeard permission not only to “be himself” but to leave piracy behind for good. It happened in the kind of cruelly random way that people often die in this genre of action/adventure stories. That didn’t make it any easier though. And at the end of the season, Blackbeard’s inability to save Izzy meant that there was simply no more reason for him to be a pirate anymore. Who was he doing it for? What more did he have to prove?

Regardless of the narrative reasons why Izzy Hands died, I was devastated. Did it make sense in the context of the show? Yes. Was it a deeply moving and incredibly well-acted moment? Also yes. Was his death made all the more affective because of how Izzy had been ingratiated, accepted, trusted, and even, at points, loved by his crew? Absolutely. So, of course I teared up a little.

Jenkins looked slightly sad himself, saying that “Ghosts exist in this world.” I told him not to make promises he couldn’t keep. At this point such a comment feels like it was made to make me, personally, feel better. I’m not sure Izzy could make a return at some point, nothing is certain about Our Flag Means Death’s future right now. It almost feels like Jenkins feels bad that he made me sad. I don’t know if he realizes how sad he’s going to make a lot of people.

This isn’t going to be an interview entirely about Izzy Hands, but he’s a big part of it—after all, his death is arguably one of the show’s biggest shocks yet. Looking back at Izzy’s arc over the two seasons, Jenkins said that he doesn’t see Izzy as a pure antagonist in season one because on some level… Izzy was right in his hesitations about Stede. “His boss is falling for this manic pixie dream girl, and he’s got to keep his boss safe because that’s his job,” Jenkins explains. “And then he has to get this ship to operate like a normal ship would operate. And they’re all weirdos. So he’s got the worst middle management position. And on top of that, his boss is a lunatic.”

Towards the end of season one, Izzy does have a turn away from ‘reasonably upset at Blackbeard’ to ‘serious antagonistic force’. But when he gets what he wanted–Blackbeard back to legendary form–it doesn’t really work out. “Be careful what you ask your God for, because you just might get it,” Jenkins warned. “Izzy gets it and it turns on him. That toxic relationship that he wished were all his, becomes all his… he’s crushed by it, and both he and Blackbeard both have to rebuild themselves.”

In Izzy’s case, the rebuilding is quite literal–his leg is amputated and replaced with a wooden prosthetic, carved from the unicorn figurehead of the Revenge. After this, he has to go through a transformation, Jenkins said he has to ask himself “What am I going to do with myself? You know, who am I going to be? After [the crew] makes him the Unicorn leg, I think he kind of sees like, ‘oh, this crew cares for me’. And I don’t think he’s ever felt cared for in that way.”

This season also saw a lot of Izzy interacting with Stede, often in more fun situations than the snipes back and forth in the first season. When asked about how Con O’Neill and Rhys Darby got along on set, Jenkins just laughed. “I really love building a show with really funny actors and then really serious actors. And the funny people are usually scared of the real serious people. And the real serious people are scared of the funny people. They terrify each other.”

For those that might not know, Darby is a stand up comedian and has been in many of Waititi’s darkly comic films. O’Neill, on the other hand, has been taking dramatic roles since his twenties, and has recently appeared in productions like The Batman and Chernobyl. “I think from the beginning people saw Con and were like, ‘Oh, man, I got to be like, really have to be in my game’,” Jenkins said, imitating Taika Waititi’s lilting Kiwi accent. “And then Con was like, ‘Oh, I don’t know what he’s doing, he saying I should just follow along with the improvisations’—” again, imitating O’Neill’s raspy drawl. “And then they’re both so good that by the end of the season they’re not scaring each other as much. But that admiration remains, and I think that was very much true between Rhys and Con.”

The decision to have Izzy die wasn’t one that Jenkins took lightly. “It was hard. It was hard to kill off Izzy. It was hard to tell Con that he was going to die. And he was so lovely about it. But, at the same time, he took it hard,” Jenkins said. “Like this thing we built together is going to die. It’s one thing to write it, it’s another thing to produce it, and to see Con carry that knowledge through the episodes, knowing what was going to happen to that character. Con took it really seriously.”

Jenkins also thinks that Izzy was able to say exactly what he needed to at the end of the show. “I think he gives his own eulogy. It’s about belonging to something. And that we do this for each other, you know? He came to view piracy as a thing we do for one another. And being on a crew is something you do for each other… he gets to a place where he eventually sees that it works because everybody is helping each other. Everybody cares for each other, and there needs to be some structure, but for him, it became less about dominance and more about belonging to something.”

The final shot of the season is actually Izzy’s grave, outside of Ed and Stede’s cottage. “I think him being buried near them is a lovely image,” he said. “And there’s a reason that that happened. I think they both were sad to see their friend go. And I think they’re both thinking, ‘let’s make this work not just for us, but in memory of Izzy’.”

One of the prevalent rumors about Our Flag Means Death this season was that it was originally supposed to be 10 episodes rather than 8. But Jenkins says no; it was always going to be 8. They were looking for ways to cut budget, and moving the production to New Zealand and cutting down the episodes really helped with the bottom line, as well as being better for the cast and crew. “It takes so much to make one episode happen. Every department is strung out by the time you get to the end of the season,” he explained.

“The story of Stede and Blackbeard is a three-season story,” Jenkins said, looking ahead to where the show could go from here. When asked if the ending of season two–Frenchie taking over as Captain of the Revenge, Stede and Ed in a shack on the beach, preparing to open their inn, and Izzy Hands buried in front of their home–was a kind of “safeguard” in case the series didn’t get that third season, Jenkins shrugged. “In a way,” he said. “The first season ends on such a downer, so it made sense to end the second season in a kinder spot.”

But he says that he “still has questions” about what happens next. The Republic of Pirates has been destroyed, Izzy’s killer is still out there, and does Frenchie have what it takes to captain a pirate crew? Our Flag Means Death is not a complete story yet. “I think there’s plenty of story left for season three, but I think that it was important to end this as if it was the end of the show, and on upbeat note and avoid the kind of “kill your gays” trope. I don’t want to see Steve and Ed punished for giving it a go. I want to see them really say, ‘yeah, we’re going to we’re going to try to have a relationship’.”

When asked how he would approach the third season , Jenkins thought about it for a few seconds before answering. “I would very much like to see pirates come to America. Historically, they were in New York City and the Carolinas. And now, in the story, the Republic of Pirates is gone… I think that stories about piracy are a little bit like stories about the West. They’re stories about these things that are going to end inevitably,” he said this sadly, like the inevitability comes from looking back on the past and thinking the present couldn’t come out any other way. It’s a bit of a eulogy. “In some ways, I think then seeing them have to deal with some of these things in a country that’s coming together would be good. And I think it would be a good way to end the season, and see how they adjust to it.”

The final scene with Izzy and Blackbeard is incredibly, desperately sad, and clearly required a lot from both O’Neill and Waititi in the moment. “When Izzy died, I said, ‘Would you like to play music on set?’” Jenkins recalled. “ He went ‘Yeah’. And so I made an Izzy Death playlist and put it on during the takes.”

This is the second time I have been teased with an Our Flag Means Death playlist. The first time was from music supervisor Maggie Phillips after the first season had ended. I had to ask for this playlist, but Jenkins didn’t want to share. He mentioned Carole King, implying that “Bitter with the Sweet” was played. I was not doing well with this information, especially after I put my face in my hands. He tried, once again, to console me but I was lost in my Izzy Hands feelings. Maybe taking the good with the bad was personal advice. Or, more honestly, I just think he felt a little sad too.

#our flag means death season 2 #ofmd s2 #ofmd s2 spoilers #spoiler #our flag means death #ofmd #david jenkins #intérview #gizmodo

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