hi Silver! o/ because that fanart made me wonder - would you happen to know when/where Dick's stuffed elephant plush Zitka turns up in the comics?
GREETINGS CAM <3333 THAT ART WAS SO CUTE
Yeah, I think your instincts are right - it's a truly adorable bit of transformative fandom, but I'm 95% percent sure it's not comics canon. Barbara has canon plushies, but I don't think anyone else does.
I got kinda invested in the investigation (it's hard to prove a negative!) and I ended up typing out an entire History of Elinore/Zitka, so, uh, if you're curious, meet me below the cut for:
Where does Elinore / Zitka - the animal - appear in comics?
Did Dick ever have a stuffed elephant toy in comics?
Where does Elinore / Zitka appear in comics?
We're gonna go in chronological order!
Dick's circus elephant friend was first created for practical reasons: in Batman 436, Marv Wolfman does a big expanded flashback to Dick's circus backstory as a way to subtly show us Tim before officially introducing him (so that we can have a technically-solvable mystery-of-Tim's-identity in LPoD). In this comic, there's an elephant named Elinore who loves Dick:
Aww. Such a cute elephant!
Batman 436 comes out in August 1989. New Titans 60 comes out a few months later, in November, and guess what? When Dick visits the circus, he is suddenly surprised by an unexpected blast from the past! It turns out that even though it's been years, Elinore still remembers him!
Here's the part where Elinore remembers Dick:
SUCH a cute elephant. I love her.
(Guess who else still remembers Dick even though it was so long ago. Guess which other character is about to be an unexpected blast from the past. Guess which character Elinore is directly paralleling guess guess guess sorry everything is about Dick and Tim in my mind but I can focus I swear)
Four years later, in 1993, Batman: The Animated Series retells Dick's origin story. They like and keep Wolfman's elephant, but they change her name to Zitka:
Wolfman doesn't return to the elephant beyond those two appearances, and a few years down the line, New Titans gets cancelled and Wolfman's not writing Dick anymore anyway. So the animal gets abandoned for a while, until Devin Grayson, a fan of both Wolfman and B:tAS, revives the Wolfman-era Titans team in JLA/Titans and then the ongoing series Titans 1999.
Grayson then brings back the elephant in a flashback to Dick's past in Titans 16 (Jun 2000), where she imports the B:tAS name. Sometimes I'm skeptical of TV-to-comics imports, but honestly, I endorse this one. You lose the alliteration, which is a shame, but IMO Zitka is a better elephant name than Elinore.
Here's Dick with the newly-christened Zitka in Titans 16:
Grayson also briefly references the elephant in Gotham Knights 20 and - in a final angsty callback - in Nightwing 88 (Feb 2004), where Zitka tries futilely to comfort Dick in the midst of his trauma conga line:
... And... honestly, I think that's it for comic appearances? The two Wolfman comics plus the three Grayson comics.
Both Wolfman and Grayson are writing multiple titles - Batman, New Titans, Titans, Gotham Knights, and Nightwing between the two of them, spanning a big chunk of Dick's post-Crisis canon - and both writers use the elephant for heartwarming moments of nostalgia, which means if you're doing a post-Crisis readthrough for Dick, Elinore/Zitka feels memorable. But I don't think she actually shows up that much.
For post-2011, I am not as well-informed - throwing this out to the dash? anyone know? - but I feel like Zitka the heartwarming symbol of Dick's heartwarming circus past is, uh, thematically very at odds with the Court of Owls evil!circus vibes, so my instinct is that this story element was almost certainly dropped in the reboot.
Did Dick ever have a stuffed elephant toy in comics?
In WFA, yes; in main comics continuity, no. Technically, I have not read every comic ever published, so I could be wrong!! But I don't think so.
Below, find my rambling reasoning on the tonal vibes of pre-Crisis, post-Crisis, and post-2011, and why this particular story element doesn't seem right to me for the first two.
Pre-Crisis (...okay, mostly the Silver Age): stuffed animal, yes or no?
tl;dr no, requires too much background knowledge on the part of the reader, plus the elephant wasn't a thing until later
Elinore doesn't get created until post-Crisis, but also just generally, pre-Crisis callbacks are more along the lines of this reference in Batman 129 (published in 1960), where, wow, Batman and Robin are hunting jewel thieves - and it turns out Robin recognized this strongman! BUT HOW?!
The comic goes on to recap Dick's entire origin story in flashback, on the assumption that you may not know it.
(BTW, if you'd like to know more about Haly's Circus throughout the years, nightwingology has a great post here summarizing a lot of fun plotlines and characters!)
Basically: Silver Age comics are very self-consciously episodic and kid-friendly; they're not generally gonna do overly-elaborate callbacks because they don't know what comics their kid readers may have randomly picked up or remember.
By the time of post-Crisis, comic books were being written for an adult audience buying from the direct market, i.e. readers who are collecting whole runs & don't need or want Dick's origin story to be recapped to us in full every time it's referenced. That's why in post-Crisis, we get stuff like "hey, neat, this particular soda brand is getting mentioned in several different books!!" or "in order to understand this story arc, buy SIXTEEN DIFFERENT COMICS in FIVE DIFFERENT RUNS and read them ALL ACCORDING TO A NUMBERED ORDER and also you better be following the individual plotlines and recognize these five minor characters who we don't bother to introduce!! Good luck!!" But the elaborate post-Crisis plotlines - and subtler worldbuilding like a stuffed animal callback to Dick's backstory - don't make a lot of story sense UNLESS you're imagining your readers as completionist adult fans.
So IMO a stuffed animal wouldn't be a pre-Crisis thing unless it was The Episodic Story Of the Week, and I don't think a stuffed animal is action-adventure-y enough for the fast-paced storytelling of the Silver Age. (Unless it, like, came to life and tried to eat you or something.)
Post-Crisis: stuffed animals, yes or no?
tl;dr: no, Dick's a manly tough guy, he's not gonna have a stuffed animal, that'd be lame, like something Tim might do
Part of the edgy grimdark adult vibes in 80s/90s comics is that some characters who used to be kinda silly & goofy & lighthearted - like Batman and Robin - get reimagined as Serious and Angsty and Edgy in a Tough Cool Manly Brooding Way. This massively affects characterization for Bruce, Dick, and Bruce and Dick's relationship.
(I obviously love this change & love the tense Bruce-and-Dick interactions, but plenty of fans of the earlier fluffy comics really disliked the edgy retcons of Miller / Wolfman / Starlin / et al.)
The upshot is that post-Crisis is a period when you could have a recurring reference like a stuffed elephant, but you wouldn't have a stuffed elephant, not for Dick. I think a toy like that would be too cutesy / childish / effeminate to give a male character in post-Crisis, unless you were poking fun at him.
Now, you could probably let Tim have a stuffed animal, because Tim is sometimes cool but also sometimes a tryhard loser who is faking being cool and not entirely pulling it off (see e.g. the Robin comic where he practices tough-guy faces in the mirror, or the Teen Titans comic where Conner discovers his cringy Enya CD, or when he's fanboying over Connor and it's awkward, etc etc.). A stuffed animal would be deeply embarrassing, and you'd have to be careful to compensate by having Tim do something cool afterward - but Tim's character concept allows for "he's kind of a loser sometimes."
But Dick isn't!! In post-Crisis, Dick's a tough / impressive / "cool guy" character, the kind of guy anyone would want to be, even in the flashbacks where he's Robin, and even in the stories where he's more lighthearted than angsty. It'd be kinda lame for Dick to have a stuffed elephant, so he wouldn't. I feel like Dick would be more likely to poke fun at it if someone had one, like when he's making fun of Wally for liking the Hardy Boys. Dick could have a Batman action figure, at most, and if he had one he would have it ironically.
Basically: in post-Crisis, a male character hugging a stuffed elephant feels more likely to be a punchline to me, not something poignant. (Even with Tim, Tim could have an embarrassing stuffed animal, but he couldn't hug it when sad - that's too far. Maybe Booster Gold might do this. Probably he wouldn't, but spiritually, he would. Sorry Booster ilu! <3)
Instead, Dick instinctively deals with his inner turmoil like the TORTURED ACTION HERO he is: by punching things and brooding and yelling and joining the mob and sleeping on rooftops and going on obsessive secret missions and acquiring Angsty Stubble!! Just like Batman!
(Technically I don't know if Bruce ever joined the mob but you know he would.)
Anyway as you know this is my favorite continuity and I am poking fun affectionately, but uh, yeah sdfsfdsfs. No stuffed animals.
Post-2011 / Infinite Frontier / Wayne Family Adventures: stuffed animals, yes or no?
tl;dr it's in WFA! Probably not anywhere else, but it could be.
Post-2011 stuff tends to be cutesier overall, most of all in the current Infinite Frontier era. So I don't feel like this would be tonally out-of-line with IF comics. Taylor tends to go for more meme-y references rather than fanfic references, though.
So the obvious best fit is WFA, which is aiming for a rough approximation of Silver Age family-friendly vibes - wholesome, episodic plots, Teaching Good Moral Lessons For The Youth, etc. - plus lots of Easter eggs for fanfic readers and some comic references.
And look, here we are:
Aww.
Whew - that's everything I could find!
Anyway as you can probably tell, I LOVE the elephant, so this was a very entertaining rabbit hole to go down, thank you <3
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Exactly chile—Regarding the namor thing. Finally some good fuckin food. The tumblr children are not serving up the stories like I thought they would. There’s some but not nearly as much as there should be. I’m mad ! 😡
bestie i've been going through the tags on here, on ao3, like a fucking rat looking for a freaking crumb I NEED MORE FICS FOR THIS MAN PLS!!!
i see thirst for him, i see the posts calling him fish daddy, wanting to suck him dry, and yet i have only seen a select few write for him? it's a crime. it's a disservice to the horny community!!!
i need ya'll to write those same au's you do for barnes, rogers, parker, like those movies came out on a monday and ya'll had ten fics posted the day BEFORE ok, i need that same energy cmon!!!!! 💳💳
i NEED to see the coffee shop aus, dbf, best friends dad, mob boss, the coworkers au, the sugar daddy ones, the dark ones, the angst ones, the tortured lovers, the friends to lovers, the childhood friends, the enemies to lovers, the band aus that i know ya'll love sm, the accidental baby having ones, the marriage of convenience, the most unhinged nasty thirst that'll have me laid up for an hour after reading it I NEED IT ALL!!! PLEASE <3
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Okay, so I watched one or two Rathbone Holmes stories back in high school and decided I didn't like Nigel Bruce, but I've also seen you talking positively about the Rathbone Holmes movies/ episodes. If you're willing, can you say why you like them and/ or which you would recommend starting on? Is it a series to watch in broadcast order, or are they more stand-alone? Which ones are your favorite? I want to give it a second chance.
hiya, thanks for the ask :D adding a cut here cuz this post got realllyyy outta hand- so so sorry xD
I wanna preface by saying that I totally get the frustration of Nigel Bruce Watson- as much as I've come to care for this portrayal, there are still moments of disappointment? I feel? Mostly once you see all the potential in him before it gets unceremoniously dumbed down for the sake of comedy, and it can be trying sometimes, but I've learned to breeze past those moments and! There are definitely movies where he shines brighter than others! In the end, you may warm up to him or you may not, but I fully commend you on taking another chance :D
I did not really start off in broadcast order (my ass still hasn't seen rathbone and bruce's HOUN- bloody disgraceful lmao) and mostly watched in order of vibes, which seems to have worked out alright xD
I started off with Scarlet Claw, and after rewatching it this morning, I feel like it's an alright place to start! It's a good sort of mystery and there was enough element of equal partnership to get me invested in Holmes and Watson. But, I'd say it's still pretty lukewarm, enjoy it as I do, so to compound this long ass post lemme throw a list at you real quick of rathbone movies i strongly recommend-
The Pearl of Death:
Starting off with Pearl of Death not only for the 'Watson gathers the braincells' quality but because it's one of the genuine classics in the series- a brilliantly crafted movie from start to finish, and in my opinion, one of the better shot ones. This one is a good start, it's a bit slow in some places, but it's a good, neutral film that showcases I think some of the more concrete themes and brilliancy of the movies.
House of Fear:
I honestly dunno if I'm biased about this one, but it is genuinely one of my favourite movies of all time. It's the very second one I watched, and it's still in my nighttime viewing collection- I fall asleep watching this movie, which is a compliment I swear. Watson has a more active role, is genuinely trying his best for most of the runtime and falls more in line with 'genuine failure to succeed' more than just 'bungled it up for a gag'. It's a really, really excellent mystery and I adore Holmes and Watson's dynamic throughout- 10/10, freaking banger movie.
Pursuit to Algiers:
Then, of course, the Big Daddy herself- Pursuit to Algiers. This one falls less in line with a mystery (our baddies become pretty clear at one point) and more suspense, but man is that a good thing. The dang thing takes place on a boat for most of it, Holmes and Watson are attached to eachother like pairbonded shelter dogs and have the most balanced, affectionate of interactions, Watson gets to sing! And not to give away any spoilers (yeah shush, i know the movie's old) but a particular plot point happens in this movie and as a result, Nigel Bruce gets to do a genuinely heartbreaking piece of acting- seriously, there is a shot where he goes out onto the deck, completely silent of music and just looks out into the ocean that still has me unwell even after all this time. Goofy moments still happen in the movie, but they feel more organic, and overall there is a wonderfully grounded approach to Watson here- he's still silly, but it's a fun silly, and a silly that Holmes indulges in with him. The depth of affection between these two is ASTOUNDING in this movie, bloody unhinged behaviour. Great movie, do watch it :D
I'd say those three are, at least in my opinion, the best of the best! I do enjoy the others, but I think it best to venture into those once an affection has been developed, they do strain the patience a bit at times I'm afraid. (And it goes without saying, some of the movies have a definite propaganda vibe to them, which is charming sometimes and sometimes just grating, really depends on the day i think- none of the three movies listed above fall under this category though- and the of course, general warning for all the really poorly aged 1940s stuff, but you know that :>)
Except The Spider Woman. In really the bluntest of terms, fuck that movie, all my homies hate The Spider Woman, do NOT watch it (i'm only half joking, oh god its so bad)
Anyways, uh, sorry lmao-
I really must thank you for letting me put this incredibly useless knowledge to use, I'm so goddamn sorry it came out in this absolute massive scrawl- I wish you all the luck in your rathbone holmes adventure, and I hope you have an illuminating time either way it goes for you :D
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“ Here are some scissors. Now cut it out. ”
absolutely unhinged comedic reliefㅤㅤ∘ ˚ ( accepting )
ㅤdark eyes stare at the pair of scissors in question for a long moment, byan allowing the silence to hang over the two of them to make a point of just how unimpressed they are. as if their flat expression isn't show enough of that already.
ㅤㅤ" ...hated that, "ㅤthey finally state, gaze lifting to otis' face with a very intentional air of boredom.ㅤ" like, i respect the commitment — y'actually brought a pair'a scissors with ya just for this, didn'tcha? but uh, the execution? terrible. maybe leave the gags t' people who know what they're doin' from now on, yeah? "
to his credit though, his little act has managed to make them stop in their tracks, successfully concluding their sharp critique of his outfit. ...for now, at least.
ㅤㅤ" i'll take those, though. "ㅤnot asking, byan reaches out and snatches the outstretched pair of scissors for themself, turning them over in their hand.ㅤ" lost my old pair a while back, must'a fell outta my backpack or somethin'. y'know how hard it is t' cut fabric neatly with a pocket knife? ...well, not that hard when you're as good with 'em as me, but. scissors're still way handier. thanks. "
and just like that, with a smug little grin and wiggle of their eyebrows, the teen pockets their new acquisition and turns on their heel to leave the ratcatcher scissor-less and alone in the back alley.
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