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lgbtlunaverse · 6 months

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A slightly unhinged case for jin guangyao knowing about the core transfer while WWX was still alive

Ok. SO. In chapter 101, during guangyin temple, Jin Guangyao clearly knows about the golden core transfer. He uses it to bring Jiang Cheng off-kilter and stab him and simultaneously reveals to wwx that jc himself now knows about the golden core transfer.

I've always wondered exactly when he figured it out. The most obvious explanation is that he pieced it together after hearing about Jiang Cheng asking everyone to unsheathe suibian (also? jgy? how the fuck do you know that? You were already going to/at Guanyin temple at this point! Did you just have people listen in on rumours from Yunmeng and report back to you for that?? Did you tell your spy network where you were going? My whole kingdom for a retelling of this arc from the pov of these random jin disciples seeing their sect leader start spiralling. He's diggin up random tombs? Fleeing the country? And threatening the heir's life?? What was random Jin cultivator #6 thinking of this before Nie Mingjue turned him into minced meat?)

BUT.

The first time I read that line I was like "oh so he's known for a WHILE." I mean, the line "I've always found it peculiar [that wwx never took his sword anywhere]" does indicate he's been thinking about this for a while, but it doesn't have to mean he knew back then. So I absolutely can't say with certainty that my instinct was right. But I DO have some decent canon backing for how he might have potentially figured things out as early as before Wei Wuxian's death. Specifically, after the discussion scene that takens place when wei wuxian does his thing with the wens and dissapears.

Cause, see, Wen Chao would definitely have bragged about Wen Zhuliu crushing Jiang Cheng's core to his father. He killed the current sect leader, and then permanently disabled the only heir. He did it! the Jiang are gone! I bet he was very loud about it until, a few weeks later, Jiang Cheng suddenly strolls up to the battlefield, with Zidian on his finger, cultivation very much intact, looking for Wei Wuxian.

That must've been fucking baffling if you were Wen Chao and/or Wen Zhuliu and/or any other cultivator who was there and definitely saw Jiang Cheng's core get crushed. They must have assumed something went wrong, or he faked having his core destroyed, but we've never heard of something like that happening before, and they tortured him for hours! It wasn't a quick batle where Wen Zhuliu must have missed in haste, he would've noticed!

Now, by the time Meng yao arrives, wen zhuliu and wen chao are both long dead, but that kind of thing would at least still be a source of gossip among the other Wen. The only time the core melting hand ever failed!

It might be something that, say... a very careful spy with a perfect memory looking for information... might pick up on in his stay with the Wen, no?

So, Meng Yao has heard the rumour that sect leader Jiang got his core crushed but somehow managed to... still have a core.

Independantly of his, Wei Wuxian is being really weird and refusing to carry his sword. His primary concern there is wwx stirring shit up, he has no reason to believe these things are connected yet.

But then Wei Wuxian runs off with a bunch of Wen, and before he is cut off, Jiang Cheng tells everyone that after the siege on lotus pier, he and wei wuxian were helped by Wen Qing and Wen Ning! Jiang Cheng doesn't get to say how, which is good for jgy in this moment because he's trying to steer the conversation as such that no one gets mad at the Jin sect for all the war crimes, but even if his goal is for everyone else to forget Jiang Cheng said that, he'd remember it.

So... after the moment where jiang cheng, according to rumours that were contained to the wen, lost his core, he was helped by wen ning and wen qing, who is a really good doctor. And, in canon, had written theoretical proposals on core transfers before, just never experimented on them. Were these available for others among the Wen to read? Did jgy read them? We have no way of knowing. But if he did, he remembers them. Either way, he knows her reputation.

And Wei Wuxian disappeared right round that same moment, only to resurface with his demonic cultivation, at which point he never touched his sword again. Not even in the middle of a dangerous war. Not even when he was public enemy number one and it would do wonders for his reputation if he was seen cultivating the traditional path. When doing so would have made not just him but the 50 people he was shielding safer! if Jin guangyao was somehow in his position, he'd immediately do everything he could to counteract the narrative of beign a dangerous madman who'd left the straight path. Wei Wuxian has been in absolutely desperate situations and still refuses to pick up his sword...

The saying doesn't exist yet, but i'm sure someone like jgy, more competent than everyone around him, is intimately familair with at least the sentiment of "never ascribe to malice what is adequately explained by incompetence" He is helping spread the narrative of Wei Wuxian as a violent madman, sure, but does he believe it? If it makes no sense for wei wuxian, no longer a privileged young master but an outcast, to not pick up his sword again out of arrogancy, the most reliable explanation is that he... can't.

So Jiang Cheng, who got his core melted, got help from Wen Qing, an incredible doctor, after which he coud cultivate just fine but Wei Wuxian, no matter how desperate, never used traditional cultivation ever again...

Hm. interesting!

It's likely no one else in the jianghu outside of the wen even knew Jiang Cheng lost his core to begin with. And Jin Guangyao was never given wwx's excuse of Baoshan Sanren owing him a favor like Jiang Cheng was. He has all the puzzle pieces in front of him and... if anyone as gonna put them together, it'd be him.

And that's my unhinged case for why I believe Jin Guangyao knew Wei Wuxian didn't have a golden core anymore years before anyone else did. He just never told anyone, because why would he?

I think this adds a whole other level to his speech to Jiang Cheng about how everything could've worked out if he'd just trusted Wei Wuxian more and stood by his side. He saw it all play out in real time knowing there was more going on beneath the surface!

Now the really interesting question becomes: When did he figure out Jiang Cheng himself wasn't in on it? Did he piece it together immediately from remembering seeing jiang cheng berate wwx for not carrying a sword, a thing he should've known he couldn't do? Or was it not until later, maybe the fake yunmeng bros fallout, or the REAL fallout when Jiang Yanli died? Or was it still the news of Jiang Cheng going around and asking everyone to unsheathe subian that made him realize that oh my god this stupid bitch had no idea the whole time.

#mdzs #meng yao #jin guangyao #wei wuxian #wen qing #jiang cheng #mdzs headcanons #mdzs meta #<- tagging both cause it's like... in between #i don't think this is clear-cut canon i'm theorising but i'm also not just throwing spaghetti at the wall to see what sticks #i am looking at the wall very carefully to see what places are the stickiest #the concept jgy thinking jc just. let wwx put his core in him and then didn't protect him from the fallout.#would really color their relationship like he would not show it but ohhhh there'd be resentment there!#yeah no sect leader jiang he's NOT letting jin ling go alone on a nighthunt with you he might not get back with all his organs intact!#i do think it's more likely he did at some point realize jc had no idea tho

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symphonyofsilence · 11 months

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Honestly, it looks like at least after the Guanyin Temple, WWX is actively resisting understanding that JC still cares about him. JC takes a Stab to the chest for him, asks him why he didn't keep his promise & stay by his side, has a full breakdown over his sacrifice, gives him back Chenqing that he's kept for all these years, gets angry at JGY on his behalf, JGY spells out for WWX that JC is angry because he feels WWX was wronged, and that JC must have come to rescue not only JL, but WWX too, & targets WWX in the middle of the fight, fully trusting that JC would rush to his rescue, and he does. JC even thanks LWJ and holds a fallen WN. & I think one reason that WWX might be subconsciously fighting against getting all these clear signs and still avoiding JC might be that as much as he thinks he can’t handle JC’s wrath and blame and wants him to forgive him, he actually can’t afford JC’s forgiveness and unconditional love. Because he still blames himself for JZX’s and JYL’s deaths and even the massacre of Lotus Pier. & JC is the only one who has the right to be angry at him for all of these. He and JL. JC’s the only one who knew JYL & genuinely cared about her. WWX doesn’t think he deserves JC’s forgiveness. In fact, he looks terrified of it. Just look how quickly he turns from JC after thanking him for giving Chenqing back to him (Chenqing that after all these years still sounded like he had first used it. A very telling sign of JC's affection in itself.) Even though even JL who was watching from afar could say that JC had something to say to WWX:

JC is an outward force blaming him and being angry at him. WWX can tell him that he doesn’t know what to say to him when asked for an explanation, he can tell him that it’s all in the past. Let it go. he can beat the shit out of him. He can apologize to him and be judged by him. He can avoid him. Pretending that by ignoring him he doesn’t have to face the past. JC blames WWX and is harsh to him so WWX doesn’t have to fight himself and blame himself all the time. post-resurrection WWX keeps misinterpreting everything JC says and is unwilling to listen to him and get the hints JC keeps giving him about how he just wants WWX to come back home & interprets everything JC even doesn’t say in the worst ways he can bc it’s not so much about JC than it’s about WWX projecting onto JC. Because he thinks JC MUST be thinking that way. BC WWX thinks he deserves JC’s hatred. And judging by how he keeps misinterpreting JC even pre-time-skip, and in true WWX fashion fully believes himself to be right & doesn't second guess himself and or makes any effort to understand JC, & JYL is always the JC translator for him, from the moment she says to him that despite his tantrum JC is happy to finally have a playmate, to the moment she says that JC was the one who offered WWX name JL, and without JYL there to take their hands and pull them to meet each other in the middle the brothers can't communicate, Jiang Cheng has never been so much his own person in Wei Wuxian's mind as WWX's interpretation of him. WWX's shidi. An open book to WWX in WWX's mind. When he was not WWX's fragile shidi who needed protection (which @cerusee has written a great meta about here.), then he was WWX's betrayed, angry shidi who blamed him & resented him. If JC forgives him and continues to be his loving brother then it’s clear that the only one who can’t forgive WWX is WWX. and what is he gonna do about that?

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cowboyjen68 · 3 months

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hi jen!! i wanted to let you know how much your advice means to me as a young butch as well as ask you for some advice.

i live in a tight-knit community and go to a small school. because my school is so small, we are allowed to attend prom all four years of high school. i didn't go my freshman and sophomore year despite my friends encouragement. last year i got asked by a girl as well and i turned her down. im in my junior year now and i still don't want to go. the thing is that there's this girl (who i like) who wants me to go. i feel like she likes me too and i don't want to disappoint her.

my avoidance to prom has to do with the whole dressing up fancy deal. ive avoided the first two years because i am uncomfortable wearing dresses and am worried about what people would think of me if i wore not-a-dress. the area where i live isn't super homophobic, but i know plenty of people that are. some people i know and care about are a little bit homophobic too. im worried about what people would think of me if i dressed unconventionally like that. people talk, as im sure you know. im worried about being discredited or belittled for my sexuality. i know some other queer teens, but it feels like such a jump to show up to prom in a suit. especially since im not explicitly out to many people yet and am generally cautious/apprehensive.

im considering wearing a dress to prom so i can show up with this girl, even though i know ill be uncomfortable. shes a nice girl and would probably encourage me to wear what i want if she knew how i felt, same with my friends.

i don't know if it's worth it though. i am scared of what people will think about me. im a year and a half away from college and living my best, queerest life. i could just wait. but i also don't want to regret not going and missing out on those classic teen experiences.

my heads swimming and id love your input!! i really admire you and want to be like you someday. thanks <3

I remember high school. I too went to a small rural school back in the 1980's. IT is not as easy as some people say. Those of us older often forget that high school is bascially a "closed" society that we are stuck in for all for years so every decision seems to hold weight. Doing something out of step with the "status quo" can have consequences we have to deal with for whatever is left of our 4 years.

SO older lesbians telling youngers to "do what you want" or "just be yourself" or "you have it so much easier than I (we) did" is not only unhelpful it can be detrimental at best and dangerous at worst. Some of my generation look back to high school through the lens of time and experience that think we "would have been more brave" and that NOW young lesbians have the freedom to do as they please because public sentiment and laws have turned in our favor. High school is just not that different now and laws and adult reactions do not apply.

SO here is my advice. Go with your crush. But ask her to go with you to pick an outfit. You do not have to wear a dress. It is wholly acceptable for women to wear suits. You don't have to wear a generic man's tux or suit, they are often ill fitting and boxy anyway, especially on women. GO to a tux or suit shop that sells women's styles and fit. You don't have to do the man's style with the tie and suit coat. A pair of black slacks, a white button down, can be pleated (woman's style) or not and a nice black vest without a tie is perfectly nice formal wear for a high school prom. To dress it up you can wear a colored vest either solid or with a pattern.

Any decent place that sells or rents formal wear will have women cut suits. Rental is not cheap but it is worth spending your hard earn bucks to look fabulous and feel confident. Check in your local suit shops, even department stores like JC Penneys or similar. Many offer women's suits and even have a list of local tailors that can do a fitting.

You might have to compromise a bit on what you would really like to wear but I think giving a little on the outfit and still having a style you feel okay in will be a small price to pay to spend a wonderful night out with her.

#butch #lesbian #dating #fashion #prom #high school

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runespoor7 · 5 months

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Jiang Cheng brings back WWX to LP after his resurrection because LWJ wasn't around

Five Fun Facts About The Fic I Might Write About It, This Is A Slowburn(?) Version, For Other Versions Ask Again:

WWX insists that he's not himself far past the point of it being sensible. The thing is, it's not the first time JC decided some random demonic cultivator was WWX and dragged him home to demande apologies and play house? Last time was over half a decade ago, so not everyone in the sect knows, but those who remember are pretty wary about it, especially because of what it means about JC's mental state. Is Sect Leader getting worse again? They're also very wary of WWX, some of them openly contemptuous - WWX has the feeling that if it weren't for JC's protection he would be dead - and some of them almost pitying. I think he overhears them talk and that's how he pieces together the backstory, and also learns that the demonic cultivator whom JC is convinced are WWX and that he treats as such don't... end well. Sect Leader takes the "betrayal" badly.

WWX realizes that YMJ doesn't have a second in command. the sect has a person who performs the tasks associated with the job, but JC doesn't have a "second-in-command", never did. it just stuck that way. it sure doesn't mean anything. probably. how weird of JC though.

the Ghost General intrudes on Lotus Pier. There's a fight, JC tries to take down WN, WWX orders WN away from JC, JC freaks out. WWX keeps swearing up and down he's not WWX, honest!!! but... on the other hand... the Ghost General recognizes him as its his master... this is what breaks JC's hopes, finally, and also WWX's heart. You get JC crying as he asks WWX "are you really not him?" and WWX doing the equivalent of Cyrano's "No, my sweet love, I never loved you!" but for who he is, with less clear-cut emotional consequences than in the play (this is because WWX is not dying and thus more invested in keeping the lie up and JC is way less certain that WWX cares about him than Roxane did about Cyrano). They sort of compromise on the understanding that "MXY" is kinda-sorta WWX, but without most of WWX's memories. (WWX is telling himself that's not what he wanted but in fact he's much more comfortable/confident with himself and being in YMJ afterwards!) this is probably when WWX realizes that while his room may not exist anymore, his things are in JC's room.

JC struggles with this WWX being an innocent lamb who has no memory of doing anything wrong in his life ever. He should've expected it. How convenient. But, y'know, a WWX is a WWX, and this also extremely conveniently lets JC off the hook of this pesky "remember how he orphaned your nephew?" thing! It's mostly JC's own guilt now. Mostly. He's not going to do anything against WWX even if it wasn't anyway. Also it's. terrifying. Because WWX has no memory of him, but WWX is around, and also there isn't anyone to judge JC for wanting-- ANYWAY.

They end up having to leave Lotus Pier and catch up with the main plot when WWX gets a spider sense that WN is in trouble. There are no words to explain how little JC likes 1)that the Ghost General is still a thing, 2)that the Ghost General is still a thing when it comes to WWX, 3)that WWX is planning on leaving LP to help WN, so he comes with. WWX tries to convince him not to, but surprises himself by accepting JC's help when JC insists in a clipped tone. The trouble that WN got in also involves JL being in danger. This is my fic so it would turn out that WN tried to protect JL before WWX and JC caught up. Possibly JL and WN have been getting in plot-relevant shenanigans offscreen for a while now, and there's definitely a fic there, what with WN thinking A-Yuan is dead and projecting on JL and JL getting conflicted feelings about the person/thing that killed his father, but that's not the focus in this story. At some point - because by now he's pretty certain JC will not either kill him or reject him - WWX "admits" that his memory has been returning. Not all of it, but enough. If we're all very very lucky JL has been in sufficient danger that JC can lose his head a little and kiss WWX for saving JL's life, or something along these lines. If we're not lucky that part happens beyond the scope of these five things.

#chengxian #this might in fact be all pre-slash ☠️#ask answered

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robininthelabyrinth · 1 year

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Could you do Accidental sworn brothers NHS, JC, WWX?

ao3

“So,” Jiang Cheng said.

It was a very ominous sort of ‘so’.

“Hi, Jiang-xiong,” Nie Huaisang said. “Have you eaten? I trust you been well. I’ve been all right, myself. Things are pretty quiet. The weather’s been pretty nice, though I don’t think it’s ever as nice in Qinghe as it is in Yunmeng. Has it been raining much?”

Jiang Cheng was giving him a death glare.

“…lots of rain, huh?”

“I don’t care about the vast majority of what you did to get revenge on Jin Guangyao,” Jiang Cheng said flatly. “But you put Jin Ling in danger.”

“Not…much danger.” At Jiang Cheng’s incredulous look, Nie Huaisang shrugged. “He kept him alive this long, didn’t he? I figured Jin Ling was pretty safe, as these things went. It was only at the very last moment that he actually threatened him directly – and Jin Ling wasn’t even supposed to be there.”

Judging from Jiang Cheng’s expression, he wasn’t buying Nie Huaisang’s argument.

“All right, fine,” Nie Huaisang said. “Still, you came to visit me, which means that you’re not just here to yell and tell me that our friendship is over, you could do that by letter. You want something from me?”

Jiang Cheng struggled for a moment, then grimaced. “Yeah, I want something.”

He was so predictable sometimes.

“Tell me what you need me to do to get your friendship back, and I’ll do it.” Nie Huaisang thought about it for a moment. “Within reason.”

“I want you to help me fix my relationship with Wei Wuxian.”

“…I said within reason, Jiang-xiong,” Nie Huaisang said, horrified. “Do you want me to bring the moon down and give it to you while I’m at it?”

“It’s not that bad!” Jiang Cheng protested, except, no, really, it was exactly that bad. Years and years of deception and betrayal and bad feelings on both sides, an incredibly knotty tangle of emotions with no one completely right and no one completely wrong and debts and anger and – it was bad, okay? “Anyway, you managed to fix Jin Guangyao, didn’t you, even though he was Chief Cultivator and you had basically no evidence? Fix this, too.”

“It’s in no way comparable!”

“Listen, you said you wanted to know what you needed to do to get us to be all right with each other again, right? This is it. Do it.”

Nie Huaisang opened his mouth in protest.

“I won’t accept anything else,” Jiang Cheng said, and crossed his arms in a way that suggested finality. “You’re the mastermind, aren’t you? So mastermind!”

Nie Huaisang really didn’t want to lose Jiang Cheng’s friendship, now that he knew there was a possibility of keeping it, but he also had no idea how to even start going about fixing the unfixable. He flattered himself to think that he knew Jiang Cheng pretty well after all these years, but based on everything that had happened, he didn’t understand Wei Wuxian well enough to know where to start.

Clearly, he needed help. No, more than help – he needed expertise.

Currently, Nie Huaisang was sitting in one of the rooms in the Cloud Recesses the Lan sect used to host guests waiting to see the sect leader on business. Of course, with Lan Xichen in seclusion at the moment, the actual person taking petitions was the person Nie Huaisang come to see: Lan Wangji.

He didn’t expect to be seen to quickly, the way he might have when he’d been on familiar terms with Lan Xichen – he was a Great Sect leader, yes, and an allied one, and so ought to be accorded first priority, but Lan Wangji was also a petty little brat sometimes. Lan Qiren had come by in an unofficial capacity, looking long-suffering, and they’d had an unexpectedly enjoyable conversation on the subject of the rules relating to filial piety and revenge, which Nie Huaisang interpreted as possibly the first time Lan Qiren had ever voluntarily given him a good grade on anything.

(He was weirdly moved by it, but mostly still traumatized. He’d hated school.)

After the old teacher left, Nie Huaisang sat around waiting and drinking tea, amusing himself by thinking of all the ways this forthcoming conversation could go wrong, and just when he’d gotten to the end of the fourth scenario, Wei Wuxian himself came strolling in.

“Oh, hi, Wei-xiong!” Nie Huaisang said brightly, not allowing considerations like shame to apply. “How’ve you been?”

“I’m good, I’m good,” Wei Wuxian said. “And you?”

“Well, I’m –”

“It works out quite well that you’re here, actually,” Wei Wuxian said, barreling onwards without waiting for the answer. “There was something I was hoping you might help me with.”

Nie Huaisang hid his face behind a fan. “Who, me…? I mean, I’m always glad to help, if it’s within my power – and, I mean, I’m glad you asked! And here I was worried that Wei-xiong didn’t like me anymore.”

Wei Wuxian waved a dismissive hand and sat down.

“I’m sure it’s something you can help with,” he said, smiling in a way Nie Huaisang didn’t like. “After all, you led the entire cultivation world around by the nose to catch Jin Guangyao, didn’t you?”

“I wouldn’t say that…”

“Well, I would. This should be no problem in comparison!”

Which meant, of course, that it was going to be a problem, because anything was easy in comparison.

“Oh, Wei-xiong, I really don’t know…”

“Don’t give me that! At least listen to it, okay?”

Nie Huaisang was always willing to listen. He nodded.

“I need you to use your mastermind skills to help me fix my relationship with Jiang Cheng.”

Nie Huaisang blinked once, long and slow. “With…Jiang Cheng?”

“That’s right!”

“But…why me…”

“Everything is just a complete mess between us,” Wei Wuxian said plainly. “It’s probably mostly my fault, and I’ve probably wronged him in ways I don’t even remember, but – I’d like to fix it. I’ve tried to fix it. I even tried leaving it alone to see if that would help, and it definitely didn’t. Everything I’ve done only makes it worse! So I need someone else to manage it.”

“And you picked…me?”

“Don’t put yourself down, Nie-xiong. You’ll manage!”

“I haven’t even agreed yet!”

“You need something from Lan Zhan, don’t you?” Wei Wuxian said, grinning at him. “You’ll agree.”

“Of course I’ll agree,” Nie Huaisang said with a huff, tossing his head. “You’re a dear friend, Wei-xiong! Why wouldn’t I agree?”

Anyway, he had to do the work for Jiang Cheng anyway. Might as well score some points flattering Wei Wuxian while he was at it.

“You’re so kind,” Wei Wuxian said, rolling his eyes at him. “Thanks, Nie-xiong. I look forward to hearing what our next move is. Have fun having tea with Lan Zhan!”

“You did this to yourself,” Lan Wangji said solemnly.

“I know,” Nie Huaisang said. He was lying on the floor, arms and legs splayed to the sides as he stared up at the roof in an effort to express the depths of his desolation. “I’m well aware.”

“Mm.”

“I’m having a crisis over it, even.”

“Mm. Could you have the crisis elsewhere?”

“Don’t be mean, Lan Zhan. Of course not. I need your help!”

“Denied,” Lan Wangji said, as if Nie Huaisang really were just one of the random petitioners he had to deal with these days.

“If you don’t help me, I’ll fix up their relationship so good that you’ll have to deal with Jiang Cheng all the time,” Nie Huaisang said threateningly, and noted with amusement the way Lan Wangji’s brow twitched at the thought of having to share either space, time, or Wei Wuxian with Jiang Cheng. “Listen, no matter what the others think, I’m not really a schemer or a mastermind! I just ran with the course of events and tried to change them when they looked like they weren’t going my way, that’s all.”

“I wish you luck,” Lan Wangji said, immoveable as an iceberg.

“If I try to solve this, I’m only going to make it worse,” Nie Huaisang said. “That’s not even a threat. It’s just a fact.”

“I look forward to seeing the end results,” Lan Wangji said.

Cruel, indifferent man.

“I don’t even have a good model on how to solve this,” Nie Huaisang complained. “I mean, I don’t think I know of any relationships that splintered and then were actually repaired? The only thing that comes even close is what er-ge was up to with da-ge and san-ge all that time ago, when he was trying to get them to like each other again – of course, san-ge ruined that by committing murder, but I think we can probably avoid that here! I mean, I think we can. And it’s not workable, anyway, because…”

He frowned. Nothing was coming to mind.

Nothing at all.

Well then.

“Actually…”

Lan Wangji actually put down his brush. He looked mildly alarmed. “Nie Huaisang,” he said. “What are you thinking of doing?”

“Nothing, nothing…nothing at all…”

“How did this happen?” Jiang Cheng wondered.

“No idea,” Wei Wuxian said. “But at least we’re friends again, right?”

“Not just friends,” Jiang Cheng said. “Isn’t that right, da-ge?”

Wei Wuxian puffed himself up like a peacock. “You bet, er-di!”

“The sacrifices I make for my friends amaze even me,” Nie Huaisang said to a stunned-looking Lan Wangji. “I’m really all heart, aren’t I?”

“Nie Huaisang,” Lan Wangji said solemnly. “I am going to kill you.”

Nie Huaisang cackled. “No, you’re not,” he said cheerfully. “Or else my da-ge and er-ge might have something to say about how you’re treating their san-di…and I, at least, promise not to kill either of them!”

#mdzs #jiang cheng #nie huaisang #wei wuxian #lan wangji #my fic #my fics #I'm finally going to start posting again #even though I'm mortally terrified I'm going to repost an old one #which is at least 65% of why I have been so quiet #but I will do it anyway #anyway showing up WAY late with your prompt fill sorry #my nhs&lwj childhood friends agenda strikes again #also my 'what is the funniest way this could happen' agenda

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whumpbby · 11 days

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I think people don’t understand why WWX saved the Wen remnants. I don’t think he would have stepped up to defend them had WQ and WN not helped him give his core to JC. I think he might have felt uncomfortable with the way the Wen’s were treated but he would not have stuck his neck out for them if he didn’t feel indebted to WQ. I think he grew to care for them in the time he was with them, but he didn’t save them because it was a noble thing to do. He was quite happy to murder and torture any Wen’s he came across during the war, and I see people claim it’s different in a war but I’m of the opinion that torture is bad no matter what circumstances it happens under. I wouldn’t feel the need to harp on this if people didn’t try and use this as another stone to hang on JC’s neck.

Okay, this is going to be long and rambling, and I apologise for that.

I think the whole thing with the Wen Remnants was a conclusion of a bunch of issues coming together that parts of the fandom looking for a clean distribution of blame are not willing/eager to admit. And how could they? This is not a problem with a simple answer.

But, in the simplest way I can look at the situation, would Wei Wuxian have cared for their fates if the core transfer didn't happen?

Yes, I think he would, for the reasons below:

Before Wen Qing performed the op, Wei Wuxian befriended Wen Ning.

Wei Wuxian was always a bit feral about the people he liked.

Wei Wuxian is a compassionate and righteous person with high moral standards. It’s just the foresight and empathy that he lacks.

So, if the core transfer didn't take place – but everything else went as it did? Wei Wuxian would still rage at the injustice done to his friend. If he was smacked in the face with what was done to the Wen Remnants, he would still probably rush into trying to rip Jin sect a new one over the inhuman treatment of the prisoners. Anyone with their morals intact would. It’s just that no one else from the main cast had the ability to act on their morals at that point in time. (and that’s another discussion right there).

That was kinda the point of Wei Wuxian befriending WN in the novel, imho - it prepared him (and us) to see the Wen as something else than just the enemies, to see that not everyone is the same under one sect banner. It’s not an accident JC was unconscious for the 99% of their stay in the Yiling Office. WWX was the only one who couldn’t ignore the things done by the Jin with clear conscience, because he was already personally invested.

Concerning his wartime madness - I'm going to risk saying that this isn't just 'war is different'. What happened to him wasn't just joining the war effort. Wei Wuxian was taking revenge for what was done to his home, his brother, himself. He was cruel and heartless, and he was absolutely consumed by his trauma. But that wasn't him. Neither him nor Jiang Cheng were themselves while the Sunshot was ongoing - that's why, while I find WWX's cruelty and JC's acceptance of it horrifying, I don't hold it against them later in life. I don't think anyone would go through what they went through and manage to hold on to their morals for a long time afterwards.

I understand this may not be the answer you are after, but it's hard for me to speculate that would happen if the core transfer didn't take place - because this is the central point of the story. Nothing would happen if it didn't take place. I'd say that Wanxian wouldn't happen if not for the core transfer - LWJ would forever suffer his blue balls in dignified silence and WWX would live busy with his sect, never able to clarify what his weird teenage feelings about LWJ were. Now, concerning the way Wen Remnants are treated as a got'cha card against one or other character? Yeah, that is annoying. I also think parts of the fandom put a bit too much worth on the whole Debt idea. WWX had a Debt towards WQ. He had a Debt towards the Jiang. JC had a Debt towards WQ and WN for saving him. WQ had a Debt towards JC for not arresting her. WN had a Debt towards WWX for reviving him… etc, etc. Trying to figure out whose Debt is bigger and more important, as if that gives them the freedom to ignore context.

Life doesn't really work like that, no one is keeping the score, and grinding this story down to something so simplistic kinda takes away from it. The novel is about a complex net of human relationships that result in no clear answers and no easy solutions. We get to experience it thought the limited pov of the protagonist, but the author still makes an important point of drawing the wider scenery for us that doesn’t necessarily reflect protagonist’s understanding or biases.

Is Lan Zhan better than Jiang Cheng, because he condemned the sects for killing Wei Wuxian? Does agreeing with WWX’s morals make him a better person even though he did nothing of worth when the things were going down? Does it make him a hypocrite, or a man that finally understood something about the world and himself? Is JC to blame for not caring about the strangers when he had so little to offer and so much to lose? Does it make him a coward or just someone placed in a situation with no exits? Are the Wen Remnants (mostly cultivators, regardless of what the cql wants us to believe) worth anyone sticking their necks out for them if they took part in the war all the same? Are they to be punished for their leader’s decisions? Is anyone morally obliged to step into this mess? Is Wei Wuxian doing this out of obligation, or is it a debt he’s paying off, or an expression of friendship – or is this the only way he can find himself in the empty nightmare his life has become? The only way he can feel like himself when what he was, has been taken away form him? Is he a hero to these people, because this is the only way he can be a hero anymore? Or is he the only righteous person amongst the sinners? But then why would his ties be more important than anyone else’s? How much blame lies on Jin Guangyao, if he was doing the bidding of his father? Can he be blamed for everything, just because he was scarily good at his job?

It’s not one over the other, because each answer leads to more questions, and so on.

#mdzs #wen remnants #wei wuxian

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colemckenzies · 1 year

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Jesus Christ Superstar: Ultimate Edition

this easter It Is Time. using my years of fixation and research i present to you The Best Version of every song from jesus christ superstar, plus commentary. obviously subjective opinion so do feel free to discourse in the tags bc as you may have picked up i enjoy talking about the relative merits of jcs productions. also i might not even stand by this in a week bc i find it hard to keep multiple versions in my head at the same time for comparison and there are so so many versions.

please note that acting, vocal quality, music direction, and where available staging have all been taken into account. act 2 in rb bc of link restrictions.

heaven on their minds - 2012 broadway revival

youtube

obviously in terms of pure vocals carl anderson is unbeatable forever, but the staging of the 2012 broadway revival pips it for me. josh young's voice is still gorgeous and the judas/jesus/mary throuple is everything. i love versions where hotm is sung directly To jesus, and i love that in this version jesus actually listen and takes judas' concerns on board. the love and respect between all three of them is palpable and even though it is a serious disagreement, part of that disagreement comes from the fact that they care about each other so much. that's tragedy baby!

special mention to henrike tönnes on the 2022 rob carroll version, i specifically like the Ending of the song for that one. also the sarcastic clap along w the disciples that judas does in the 2013 hungary version.

what's the buzz/ strange thing mystifying - 2018 tv event

annoyingly this isn't on youtube but tbh the staging is nothing mindblowing. i think what's the buzz is a great song for showcasing the usp of each version and in this one i think being able to hear the real crowd actually cheering for jesus (john legend) really adds to the narrative. i also absolutely love brandon victor dixon and as i have said before he would be one of my favourite judases if judas were straight. sara bareilles does a great 'offended' face when he bitches about her lmao.

honourable mention to the 2012 uk arena tour for again showing off the conceit of 'modern day activists' really well in this song, not forgetting of course WOTS THE BUZZ #buzz tweet

then we are decided - 2013 hungary

youtube

(starts at about 9:49) obviously not a huge amount of competition for this one, i wish more versions included it bc it's a great song :( anyway i loveee the staging choice to have everyone else freeze-framed on stage with the priests walking among them, and i freaking love this caiaphas. literally inserting it into what's the buzz also works nicely

i do miss kurt yaghjian from the 1973 film tho, forever obsessed with his voice and facial expressions. extra shout out to the striving artists version for simply existing.

everything's alright - 2006 austria

something about the musical direction in 90% of versions of this song goes right through me, like there is always some weird instrument that makes me Cringe. but this version is Nice :) really enjoy how Pissed this judas is. and i love the way the long notes last into the next section of the song. i will say i prefer the alt melody for 'people who are hungry' but you can't have everything

this is a really nice one on the all-female cast recording as well, obviously it's already the most female-heavy song of the show but shoshana bean's judas is particularly good here i think. also of course carl anderson with tears in his eyes grasping ted neely's hands while the music swells is ingrained on my brain for all time.

this jesus must die - 1994 studio cast

this album as a whole is probably my Least Favourite JCS Ever, but i will admit that this song fucks. the haunting eeriness at the beginning. the way it kicks into a funky little syncopated rhythm. the disembodied hosannas. unexpected delight.

2012 uk arena tour is unfortunately disqualified for having possibly the Most antisemitic portrayal of the priests, which is a shame because it's probably my favourite casting. one of my favourite annas portrayals, but in general all of them are distinct and fully embodied which does make that version very fun to watch. i also really enjoy the 2019 castaway productions version for this song, the way they play instruments while they sing like a lil band, and caiaphas' eye make-up is sick. 1973 film is obviously also iconic with the little scaffolding tippy taps, and the way kurt yaghjian sings 'a trick-or-two with lepers'. i love this song sorry.

hosanna - 2017 striving artists

i kind of don't have justification for this one LOL i just like it. i know there are versions that are sung better and really the staging is quite important for this song but idk i just find this version really calming. i don't know if it's the music direction? i don't know enough about music tbh

admittedly this is another one that works really well for the 2018 tv event, but doesn't quite win for me as the crowd don't cheer in all the right places and john legend doesn't react at all to the 'would you DIE for me?' line which is crucial. for good reaction to that line the 2000 film where it elevates the bitchy gay tension in the love triangle really nails it.

simon zealotes - 2011 austria

EASYYY WIN FOR ME this is actually the song that made me want to pick a best version for each one because this version IS so much better than any other one for me. the guitar!!!!!! rob's energy!! the music design for this one really fucks so severely and then there's just rob jumping around hyping up the crowd (there is a film version from 2008 on youtube, but i wanted to capture the music for this one). iconic.

big love also to hungary 2013 for having a simon who's in a wheelchair, particularly notable when it's really the highest energy role in the show. i do enjoy.

poor jerusalem - 2022 rob carroll

i cannot find any information about this album other than what's on spotify but i do enjoy the slight alt melodies in this version and i like his voice.

not a lot to go into for this song really. i like the ben forster version a lot as well, and the 1996 london cast version. 'close your eyes' is a better lyric than 'live a lie'. moving on.

pilate's dream - 2022 all-female cast

may be biased bc I LOVE ORFEH but i just think this version is so gorgeous. i love the little vocal drifts without going too overboard and distracting from the song. the music composition is especially pleasing as well.

there's a lot of honourable mentions i could give here bc i think pilate has so much potential for power and gravitas, but 1973 film, 2012 uk arena tour, 2013 hungary, and east end theatrical ensemble. are also big favs. in terms of staging i love the fact that 2019 castaway productions has jesus himself on stage playing the backing piano like he actually is haunting pilate.

the temple - 1992 australia

australia 1992 habitually has some of the most interesting and creative music direction and this is one of the songs where it particularly pays off. love the whistles. i also like that the second 'get out' is spoken, not screamed. the second half is appropriately creepy with the sustained 'chriiiist'. pretty boring staging but at least the costumes are fun.

i don't know how to love him - east end theatrical ensemble

possibly controversial choice but ugh i love this version i even love how low the sound quality is. like listening to a vinyl. i think her voice is so gorgeous and i love her accent. deeply soothing to listen to. i feel like im in the 70s rn.

i'm also a huge fan of the 1996 london cast recording, joanna ampil has such a sweet voice and the way she emotes so that you can really Hear it works well for this song. special shout out to 2012 uk arena tour which i don't think is a particularly amazing version but we get the absolute gunshow from mel c at the end so we love it.

damned for all time/blood money - 1973 film

youtube

CARL!! I feel like 1973 film and 1996 london album are at a disadvantage in this bc they're what i grew up with so i kind of take them for granted but this is undeniably iconic. no one can commit to the tortured soul but belief he's doing the right thing like him. the way he can scream but it still sounds Good. i prefer versions that have annas suggest 'a fee' rather than caiaphas just repeating himself so that's here too. the weird keening way he sings 'on thursday night'. annas dropping the coins just as he reaches for them. UGH so good. a lot less brassy than other versions as well.

this is another song that kinda fucks in every version, but the original 1970 album and the 2018 tv event are particularly good i think. also that one bit in 2012 uk arena tour where annas is like '...... get up off the floor.'

#jesus christ superstar #jcs #jcsposting #please don't let this flop i spent all day on it.#will try to add act 2 on rb now otherwise it will be a new post lmao #Spotify

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not-rude-ginger · 6 months

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I love your story"For what, for all but myself," it's so good! I do wonder though, what would have happened had JC actually died. Like we know what practically would have happened but grief is messy even at the best of times. I dunno I just like angst.

Ah, so you want the bad timeline! OK let me see...

The immediate fallout is WWX and JL screaming, crying, throwing up. The only thing the doctors can do is present them with Jiang Xi. JL takes him and holds him, thinking he's warm -- he holds JC's last warmth. He huddles around JX, and so we have the first split, because WWX is still wailing over JC's body, gabbling about ways the doctors should try to bring him back. However the doctors can't do anything more -- JC is already gone. WWX starts thinking aloud about how to reanimate him, but the doctors make it very clear they will not let him, and when he starts getting YLLZ about it, they point out that JC's will states that WWX is not to interfere with his body, and in fact is not allowed to have any involvement with his funeral preparations, because JC was afraid he would try something.

This shakes WWX deeply, that JC was so prepared for him, but he still fights LWJ trying to pull him away until one of the doctors knocks him out with a needle.

JL uses his fixation on JX to keep his grief at bay, so he sets about initiating the plans JC laid out. JSH is named sect protector, the other guardians are called to move into the family residence, and then JL announces the news to the sect, all the while still clutching JX. It's only when JX has to feed that JL can be persuaded to let him go and then when his arms are empty JL is overwhelmed with grief. He cries in JSH's arms and JSH's eldest daughter helps take care of him.

They keep WWX under while preparing for the funeral, worried what he might try. JL tells LWJ he must keep WWX from doing anything to JC, no matter how much WWX begs. They do let him attend the funeral and he's unable to keep his composure, everyone is afraid of him turning back into YLLZ.

LXC returns to seclusion following the funeral -- he put too much hope into the relationship he wanted with JC, and can't cope with the loss. NHS is full of regrets.

The rest of the Jianghu is reeling that Sandu Shengshou could stop the resentful cloud and save them all, but bled out during surgery. They eye JX in JL's arms with deep suspicion.

Once the funeral is over, WWX starts coping by fixating on JX, i.e. he doesn't cope at all and distracts himself. He hovers around JX all the time, won't let him out of his sight, sleeps next to the crib, follows the wet nurses around -- JL wants to stay and help, but he has to go back to LLJ as JC would have wanted so he has to say good bye and go home and grieve by himself. Except the other juniors follow him and stay with him in LL.

WWX stays in YMG, he won't leave LP, not even when LWJ is called back to CR to help LQR with running the sect because LXC is in seclusion again. Their parting is messy, not a break up but not a simple 'traveling for work' split either. LWJ is conflicted between his primal possessive jealousy and his basic decency that understands why this is the way things are. He can't even be angry that JC died, because he knows the man tried so hard to stay. He feels a grief he cannot process, for someone he did not like, but had come to somewhat respect and recognise how important their existence was for the running of things.

YMJ is desperately grieved by the loss, the kids are all crying, the disciples insist on bowing and mourning the correct way over and over. Some ask to travel, others want to stay and make sure nothing bad ever happens to their precious new sect leader. JL visits frequently, bringing gift after gift because he feels it's all he can give. Eventually Granny has to tell him Tadpole needs no more new things, he needs JL to be his tangxiong, who will tell him what it was like to be parented by JC when he's older, who will hug him and tell him he's brilliant and brave, just like his a-die.

Much like with LSZ, WWX is more of a fun uncle than a guardian Bobo, although he does learn how to change a nappy, burp the baby and rock him to sleep. When he's not looking after JX, he's working with the Plum Blossoms on new defenses for the sect, he goes to Conferences and watches the other sect leaders with deep suspicion, waiting for one of them to slip and expose their nefarious schemes for YMJ.

Still, as he gets bigger and goes from baby to toddler to child, JX is a source of great joy for many. He reminds Granny of JC at that age, everything he does is amazing for WWX, who sees so much of JC and JYL in him, and after being involved with his rearing, even from afar, JL decides to find a wife and raise a family, making sure that JX is close with his cousins.

They never stop missing JC, his absence is a physical thing, but JX was a worthy thing to die for, and exactly the sort of thing JC would die for. JX sometimes feels overwhelmed by the feeling he should be filling in all the gaps JC left behind -- especially with WWX who seems to sometimes forget that JX is not JC. However JL, who knows that feeling, makes sure he knows they don't expect it, and if they do, it's not his problem.

As he becomes a teen and goes to CR for lessons, some of his peers are suspicious and nasty to him because of his origins. They don't know whether to call him a bastard or abomination, but YMJ's disciples and then LWJ when he overhears, step in to punish and correct them. WWX returns to the Jingshi so he can be nearby if JX needs him.

JSH runs the sect very well, they don't have the same micromanagement habit of JC, but they helped him build YMJ into the smoothly running machine it is, so they simply continue the pattern, always thinking about how JC would handle a situation before acting. They hold onto the role of protector until JX is 21, allowing him time to mature. With JL now grown and a father, and an experienced sect leader, they keep the balance in the jianghu - not that LXC or NHS are in any way interested in messing that up.

Ultimately JX grows up pretty well, venerating the father who died for him, taking on the lessons of JSH, Granny, LH, WWX, JL and everyone else who helped raise him to become a sect leader JC would be proud off. He looks so like his father, but his personality is much softer, unafraid to show his feelings in a way JC never was. JC would say his son is the better version of him -- the kind his own parents would be proud of.

#for what for all but myself #ideas #sad timeline #jiang cheng #jin ling #wei wuxian #asked and answered #the untamed #mdzs

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tavina-writes · 11 months

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Sorry may I ask you a question? Your meta is so interesting! In mdzs "debts" is a recurring theme and can you please explain it? I've read meta about how in Chinese culture jc's owed the wen siblings a debt and he should have saved them, but I've also read meta about how he owed a hugger debt to his own sect. I've read how jgy killed whr and nmj, people who he owned his educations (debts). I thought that mdzs was more about "Who is wrong? Who is right?" so that everyone is a bit wrong and a bit right but this kind of meta make me doubt myself and think that maybe in mdzs someone is really morally right (wwx and lwj) and everyone else is wrong. I am going a little crazy, that's why I asked you. Anyway, thanks in advance and have a good day!

Hi Nonny!

There's no need to apologize for sending an ask! I love asks!

Regarding your question about debts and what is "owed" in relationships, I think it's important to clarify that like, presumably if someone saved your life you'd also owe them a debt of gratitude, a life debt, or however and whichever other 'debt' terminology you'd care to use there. So this concept of "debt" because you owe someone for doing something for you is not in and of itself a 'unique to Chinese culture' problem, and I think looking at "oh this person "owes" this other person a thing" is not entirely a great? way to analyze how character relationships "should" or should not go. There are lots of ways we as people in a society owe other people in our society and the characters in this book, much like us, are trapped in a confluence of factors that pull them in different directions regarding what they should or should not do.

The book itself (at least from my own opinion) is meant to read as "everyone is both right and wrong at various points in this text because this is a book with complex characters and not a morality lesson" because lest we forget, WWX made a woman eat a chair leg at one point, which. We cannot say this was correct in really anything except the most reductive main character centric interpretation.

Regarding debts themselves that say, WangXian might owe their families in accordance to their society that sound just about the same as the examples mentioned above, we can say things like "since Wei Wuxian was raised by the Jiang, he should've been helping Jiang Cheng rebuilding Lotus Pier instead of sitting around drinking or running off with the Wen!" or "how dare Lan Wangji injure thirty-three of his family elders, doesn't he know he should've been filial to them and owed his education and position in society to the Lan Sect?" and "why is it that WangXian got to go fuck in a bush at the end of the story when other people who arguably did fewer crimes end up dead? Does this mean they owed less to society or made all the right choices compared to say, the other people who are still in fact super dead and don't get to fuck their beloved in a bush?"

Does this start to look like this concept of "debts" doesn't,,, actually explain anything about the moral complexities of the character's situations? That's because it isn't a good indicator of if character x made a moral choice or not.

But again, this whole concept of "debts" to explain why a character does a thing and why they're morally good or evil and reprehensible for not doing this other thing is entirely a thing fandom does in meta to make their fave look good or character they're an anti about look extremely bad under a case of "well ACKSHUALLY morality says they SHOULD HAVE done this!" None of these characters exist either as Perfectly Moral Beings or Perfectly Evil Immoral Beings inside a decision making vacuum.

It...also doesn't really matter if your fave is right or wrong either :D just for context. They're all fictional blorbos upon a page and or screen. No real person was harmed in over the course of the story. No woman deep throated a chair leg, no child was tossed down the stairs, no groups of people were massacred, no brothers were abandoned, no one was poisoned with rage disease until they died, nobody committed incest... etc etc and honestly debating about if fictional characters were right or wrong fascinates me a lot less than "what does the story tell us about what drove them and made them tick?" and "what adaptational and translational choices did other people before me make about this story and do I agree with them on their adaptational choices."

:( sorry this came out so messy anon! I just don't think the "did this character repay their debts -> is this character a good person -> a morally good character therefore doesn't owe anyone anything anymore and if they do owe someone something that doesn't count/no they don't." pipeline is particularly useful from an analyzing the story standpoint.

#don't actually come debate in my notes or my inbox on if wangxian owe their families anything #or if this one debt a character has outweighs the other things that also act on their lives #like actually i am begging y'all to not #the debts debate means almost nothing! there are a lot of things everyone owes everyone else!#mo dao zu shi #the untamed #my meta #meta #asks and answers

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gentrychild · 1 year

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mdzs AU where either lwj is better at communication (mr not even my brother knew I was in love until I attacked 33 of our elders), or wwx less of a brickhead (mr did I become gay bc of being in the body of a gay)

Holy shit, Anon, did you need to roast them like that? I know that this is nothing but the truth but I am pretty sure you killed Wei Ying again and Lan Zhan will need another year to heal.

Before I start, I must apologize because I feel I can't make them too good at communication without making them OOC.

1 - This happens during the "Come back to Gusu with me." scene. Instead of jumping to the worse conclusion, WWX, who is absolutely exhausted and whose brain is barely working, looks at those beautiful, all concerned, golden eyes, and asks "Why??? Why would you want me to go back to Hosu? With you?" He genuinely doesn't compute. LWJ explains that he wants Wei Ying to come back with him because he is worried for him. Wei Ying looks like he hasn't slept in six months. He might die. WWX is confused as to why someone would care about him but also kinda moved. He thanks LWJ but explains he must go back to Lotus Pond to see his sister. LWJ nods and informs him that he will accompany him there. They go to the Lotus Pond, informs the shijie that WWX is alive and then WWX, still heavily sleep deprived, kinda follows LWJ back to the Lotus Pond, passes out and proceeds to sleep for the next week. LWJ is elevated.

2 - Now, JC might suck at communicating but he knows a sibling stealer when he sees one. He thought his sister was safe after the soup incident but he apparently should have watched out for that awful Lan! He breaks into Gosu, saying that LWJ cannot marry his brother. To everyone's surprise, WWX is "Why not? He is [lists an endless list of of all of LWJ's qualities and why he would make an excellent spouse]." LWJ's ears are fully red while LQR and JC have passed out from sheer rage, which was WWX's plan all along. He informs LWJ that it's time to go hunt Wens again and he leaves, with LWJ running after him.

3 - There is nothing romantic about a war but WWX and LWJ learn to know each other more through it. They are partners in this war, always by each other side. WWX learns that LWJ doesn't hate him and that he was looking for him during his disappearance because he was worried. He calls LWJ his friend. LWJ learns that WWX cares about him. It's even possible that he realizes WWX doesn't have a golden core anymore (and why).

4 - After the war ends, the other clans are looking at the grandmaster of demonic arts and being "Maybe we should... get rid of him?" The Lan elders are not happy about someone using the demonic arts. But the Lan brothers immediately "Oh, we just know you're not about to throw under the bus someone you were all too happy to use against the Wens during the war. Pretty sure it would break a couple of rules." and pretty much tells them that if WWX is punished, they will share his punishment since they helped him during the war and didn't try to stop him. JC, who can't do less than those two Lans, also warn that the Jiang clan will stand by WWX. Which is very good because WWX rescues the remaining Wens the next day. And brings back his friend back to life. LWJ is too in love to be annoyed but JC screams so much that he loses his voice for a week.

5 - However, since WWX keeps being WWX and playing with dark forces, someone breaks it to him that it would be better if he forged a powerful alliance with a clan. Now that I think about it, it's Wen Qing, so there is a moment of confusion where WWX thinks WQ wants him to play matchmaker for her and JC (he was really enthusiastic about it). WQ had to spell out that he should marry LWJ. WWX is shocked. LWJ obviously deserves to marry someone wonderful and shouldn't be shackled to someone like him. LWJ appears (was he actually near them or did he teleport after sensing someone talking about WWX's marriage? Your guess is as good as mine.) and he informs WWX that if he's not opposed to it, this is actually an excellent idea. WWX is not opposed to it. WWX is under the impression LWJ is doing that to keep the peace. It's okay, though, he will soothe LWJ's sacrifice by being the best cultivation partner he can.

+ 1 - Cue a very ridiculous fake marriage for WWX and LWJ trying to pull a Fake Wedding to Lovers AU. Since it's pre timeskip LWJ, he fails but it's okay, WWX is the first one to kiss him.

#mdzs au #5 headcanons game #closed ask game

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llycaons · 2 years

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in hindsight I was extremely burned out on shonen in 2020 because when I watched cql I remember such intense relief that I wouldn’t have to sit through a training montage. like oh they’re already fully trained cultivators. thank god

#he did end up learning another cultivation style obviously but we very pointedly Do Not See it #which remains one of the most haunting and heartbreaking parts of the story. the void where we don't know what he went though #but we only see the hints in the way he talks about #people eating anything if they're hungry enough. or his nightmares even after he comes back from the dead #and he WENT BACK THERE #he went back there! I want to scream #the way wx works so well as h/c because lwj (and all of us) are so desperate to offer comfort/love/food/care to wwx #because he so clearly desperately needs it #it makes me wonder how their relationship would had looked it they'd gotten together under normal circumstances #they'd both still be tied to their sects unless they decide to go rogue but I find it hard to believe for either of them #it would have been hard to maintain...but if they did it I think it would have been very sweet and lowkey #and it couldn't happen until their mid-late 20s. lwj had a lot of stuff to work through #maybe he would have confessed earlier but they were both messess as teenagers #but yeah I actually think lwj would have found it easier to leave his sect that wwx would even given lwj's loyalty and love for CR wwx was #Indebted to the jiangs and jc and myu would not have wanted to see him leave #maybe jfm would have encouraged him? but wwx might not have wanted to leave jc #hmm. I think actually lwj and lxc/lqr would have stayed much closer as well #in a world without the war it's hard to see them living that life where they're able to be together and not in their respective sects #UNLESS the jiangs and lans both agree to a marriage but lwj would have had to move to LP #aww that could be sweet. he and jc have no reason to fight #maybe he likes the lakes #cql txp

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ninjakk · 2 years

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Wangxian's love did indeed conquer all - It even transcended death!

I've recently seen some people state love didn't really conquer all in MDZS. But you know what, respectfully, I have to disagree.

It did.

How? Their love literally transcended death itself. That's how it conquered all.

Their love grew, even in stifling conditions.

It grew even though both thought that the other didn't return their feelings. It grew even though there were many misunderstandings and arguments. It grew despite them not seeing each other for months or even years at a time. It grew even though JC tried his best to squash whatever 'it' was. It grew even though WWX eventually thought LWJ hated him.

The seeds of love were always there, they just weren't given the chance to sprout up and grow fully, because of so many tragic situations.

After WWXs demise, LWJ kept his memory alive the best he could. Honouring his very essence, he went out and lived his life by his and WWXs shared moral code. Being wherever the chaos was. He also made sure to pass both his and WWXs virtue onto A-Yuan. LWJs love still burned brightly, even after years without WWX being around to feed the flames.

But it's not just LWJ whose love transcended death. I think from some of my other posts, it's evident WWX had subconscious feelings for LWJ in his first life. WWX's love was to a certain degree subconscious, but it was there, and if you look you can see it throughout his first life - especially near the end. Granted, WWX might not have fully fallen completely in love yet. But it's quite obvious he had some love in his heart before he died, because within days of being reborn his love and feelings for LWJ came flooding back. His feelings for LWJ instantly spring back to life not long after he's reborn. We can see this from the minute he meets him face to face on Dafan Mountain, he is attracted to him once again. Drawn towards him, as always.

There's a reason the first song he plays, that requires him to feel calm, is Wangxian. Subconsciously, LWJ makes him feel safe. He has felt this way ever since LWJ cared for him so tenderly while feverish, slipping in and out of consciousness, in the Xuanwu of Slaughter's cave. Which is why, when he has to calm his mind and play a relaxing tune, he instantly recalls what we now know as Wangxian - because it made him feel safe and happy, just like LWJ does. It's been around 15+ (17?) years since he heard that song, just once, while being semi-conscious . But evidently, it has always had a special place in his heart. Which is why, it really doesn't take WWX long to fall head over heels in love with LWJ in his second life - because he was already subconsciously in love prior to him being reborn. Once the misunderstandings were cleared up, that was it - the path was clear, and love blossomed instantly.

As physical as WXs relationship is and as much as everyone jokes about LWJ being a horny mess for WWX - LWJ would have loved him no matter what. LWJ might be very physical towards WWX, but he doesn't care what he looks like, he loves WWX for who he is. He loves his very soul. I mean, I'm sure he adores the fact WWX was absolutely gorgeous in his first life, and is now in a handsome young man's body - but I fully believe he'd love him no matter what form he was reborn into. Hey! Get your mind out of the gutter! Yes you!

If WWX and LWJ had been a little bit more honest with each other and themselves in WWXs first life, I really do think WWX would not have met the end he did in his first life. All WWX needed was one person to rely on, who was there for him when he needed it most. LWJ was trying to be there for him, working with limited information at the time - doing all he could to help WWX. WWXs mind was jaded by JCs insistence that LWJ hated him and his mental state was far from healthy when he returned from the burial mounds. Consumed with revenge, he could not see LWJ was only acting out of concern for him.

So I can't agree with those who state love didn't conquer all in MDZS - at least for WX. Love is what gave WWX the strength to face a second seige at the very place he died last time. The amount of trauma that would have been brought to the surface during this situation would have been devastating to WWX. But he was actually quite calm about it all - because he had LWJ by his side this time around. WWX doesn't show any signs of losing control while cultivating the ghostly path in his second life, because even under stressful situations where he's being framed for kidnapping the juniors and the cultivation world are vilifying him once more - he has LWJ's unwavering support. Love could have saved WWX in his first life, just as it did in his second life, if it was given the chance to do so.

Yes, their love won't fix everything in the world. But it makes them unbelievably happy and that's all that matters.

Conquering something is not instantaneous, it's something obtained by overcoming obstacles, it can take time. Otherwise conquering something wouldn't be such an admirable achievement.

Their love won in the end. Yes it was a battle. A bloody, devastatingly heartbreaking battle at times - but their love still triumphed. It manifested in the most confusing of circumstances, grew throughout misunderstandings and trauma and it never died. Never.

In the end, Wangxian's love conquered everything.

#mdzs #mo dao zu shi #wangxian #mdzs novel #wei wuxian #lan wangji #wangxianislove #wangxians love conquered all #wangxians love even transcended death

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noteveryoneis · 9 months

Text

Some weird snippets that I won't write a whole fic for because reasons:

It feels like they’ve been in this room for ages.

According to Ava’s phone, it’s only been a couple of hours since they’ve entered the room, but she swears time has slowed down and that her phone is lying. The sun is already set outside, night is starting to come and the daytime’s heat is slowly but surely starting to drop. She can’t wait to drive back home with the windows down, fresh air in her hair and radio blasting something like No Diggity or All Too Well (probably not this one, it’s starting to hurt too much now).

She might be biased too, but that’s not the problem here. The other parents haven’t been on school grounds since at least a good twenty years, so they had all the time in the world to forget what it felt like to be sitting on one of those narrow and straight chairs with loose bolts. Meanwhile Ava left it before it was even over a little over ten years ago, so it feels like coming back to her interrupted last years of high school and it sucks.

It feels fucking weird to be in this room with all the other parents who came as couples, smiling and listening to the teachers as they explain shit Ava has heard already ten years ago — school rules can’t possibly have changed that much in a decade, can they? A few are alone, like her, but they’re still much older than her, like Mrs. Salvius over there who used to tell them to be careful on the road as she passed them in her shiny pristine-clean car while they biked on the cracked asphalt — And now they’re both in the same room because their kids are in the same class, life is fucking weird.

Ava doesn’t look like any of them, in her funky patterned button-up and her worn-out Converse, her cap left on the table — she might be a deviant but she still has manners. She doesn’t look or act or think like any of them and they all know it, looking away from her when she turns around and avoiding her like she has the devil on her shoulder. Ava Silva was never known for being the best example for kids in town, especially after the whole thing with JC. It was stupid to even hope that they would have forgotten about it during the decade she spent away, leaving this town behind before coming back a few weeks ago. This town never forgets, neither do its residents.

All the other kids have left to hang out on the playground — can it be called a playground in middle school when playing is already an activity for babies? —, sneaking away from their parents even though they were probably all supposed to stay. Nova didn’t, staying sitting next to Ava, face turned towards the window in silence, lost in her daydreaming. Ava asked her a few fifteen minutes ago if she wanted to join them, but Nova had shaken her head, saying that she was here to support Ava through this whole excruciating evening and that leaving was defeating that purpose — a part of Ava wondered if the other kids weren’t picking on her like they were already back in the city, because quiet kids are always the best targets and Nova is a word for word definition of that.

She looks so much like her father right now, little Nova, with her dark tousled hair falling over her shoulder, but the way she makes herself small, forgotten and guarded, that is entirely a Nova-thing, Ava sometimes can’t help but understand a little the stupid and baseless rumors about whether or not the kid is JC’s.

Her phone buzzes just as the math teacher stops his long litany that neither Ava nor Nova listened to, a picture from Camila. In the photo, Nina and Neves are both sitting at the kitchen table, hunched over their drawings and the stickers Camila bought them, apparently unaware that Camila is taking a picture of them with how they seem entranced in their own conversation, little fingers pointing at the stickers — there is a sticker on Nina’s hand and another on Neves’ forehead, no doubt they probably fought for a while before Camila took the photo. Ava shows the picture to Nova, who smiles at her sisters and nods politely, before sending a text back to Camila.

Its almost over theyre about to explain the language options and all

Camila sends a thumbs up back.

Nova has her paper open in front of her, keeping track of the subjects that have been presented. On the language options panel are the ones Ava remembers: Spanish and German (it’s a small town with an even smaller school, so small that basically all the levels are in the same campus — it’s helpful for Ava, that way she’ll just have to drop Nova off at her middle school, watch Nina make her way into the primary school and take Neves to her kindergarten classroom, although Nova has made it very clear that she will go on foot every morning, as she likes the quiet and the cold air on her face before an exhausting day of social interactions). But there are also a few new languages: French, Italian, Arabic. Damn, this is better than when Ava was here — she took Spanish even though she was already fluent, both because that way she could get good grades without moving a finger and because twelve-year old Ava really wanted to get close to the cool guy: JC (stupid twelve-year-old Ava, stupid stupid).

Lilith Villaumbrosia enters the room in all her brooming glory, like they’ve disturbed her slumber by entering her school and that she’s about to make it their problem. She really grew into her role of the librarian, Ava can tell — she knows Lilith is the librarian after Nova came home on that first day telling her about ‘Miss Villaumbrosia who works at the school library and hates everyone’. Ava is really tempted to wave at her just to fuck with her, but she doesn’t want to draw more attention onto poor Nova, and so she just settles for a grin when Lilith’s gaze sweeps the room and inevitably lands on her. Her jaw clenches, she looks towards poor Nova who closes her eyes and blows through her nose, like she just knows that Ava’s stupidity is about to make her teenage years a living Hell — Ava really is genuinely sorry about that, but she’s not too worried, they’re going to realize that the kid is nothing like her parents in about a month anyway (and they’re probably going to feel really relieved about that until they meet little Nina who tells marijuana jokes at school and whose greatest achievement is saying the whole alphabet while burping).

Finally, after a few seconds of really intense staring that Ava is definitely set on winning, Villaumbrosia looks away (Score!).

“The French teacher was held back by another parent, she’ll be here in just a mom— She’s here.”

The door opens to another woman who enters the room in a bit of a hurry, cheeks slightly red from running and a few strands of hair escaping from her bun. Ava feels her heart stop in her chest and her brain melting inside her skull all the way out of her nose.

“I apologise for making you wait,” the teacher says in her full British accent that is definitely not doing things to Ava’s single brain cell, walking towards the board in front of the whole classroom. “I’m Miss Young, a few of you already know me from the primary school where I teach 3rd grade, it’s a pleasure to meet the others.”

Ava buries her burning face in her hands, Nova’s confusion coming in waves from her left — “Ma, are you okay? What’s going on?”.

What is going on is that Mrs Young isn’t just the most beautiful and intriguing woman Ava has ever seen, no, she also has to be Nova’s soon to be (because the kid speaks Spanish already and thinks German is from the basement of Hell with how hard it is to learn) French teacher. And she also has to be Nina’s Teacher Beatrice ‘who didn’t laugh at my marijuana joke, mama’.

And Ava’s hot neighbor who she’s been watching go on her morning run every day from her kitchen window with her coffee in hand.

Jesus Christ. Whoever is up there really loves to fuck with her.

#fic: strangers in this town #ava silva #sister beatrice #avatrice #sister lilith #warrior nun #warrior nun fanfic #posting this because my cousin is getting married meanwhile i'm still in the closet (like taylor swift said: that made me want to die)

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incarnadinedreams · 1 year

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What do you think about jc and wwx's relationship? And how sometimes it seems like wwx is not very kind(?) thinking about jc? I don't perceive him having a good opinion about jc (as he does with wn and lwj that he praises)

Oh, this is a tricky one for me! Thanks for the ask, it sparked a lot of thinking... probably too much, oops... and sorry it took so long to reply, there was a small tornado over the weekend so I've been busy picking up the yard for the last couple days...

I definitely agree that's the overall vibe. It's tough because I go back and forth on this and can probably be swayed in different directions depending on my mood or if I read a persuasive argument or something. (And if anyone has any thoughts on the topic I definitely welcome commentary or different perspectives! It's an interesting topic with a lot of different angles to explore, I think.) Or rather what I think the cause of it is, because I agree that he doesn't think of him in particularly nice ways, especially post-resurrection.

Because of the framing of the story, it's a little hard to tell if it's how he's thought about Jiang Cheng all along, or if it's his post-resurrection resentment coloring his recollections.

So then the question I waffle on is exactly how much of these opinions are from anger over everything that happened, how much stem from avoiding painful topics, and how much are from his ideas of Jiang Cheng that took root long before everything that happened? Or why not a little bit of all three!

(Cut for length. 'Challenge: Shut the Fuck Up and Have a Concise Point' has been a spectacular failure. Brevity is the soul of wit but these two make me stupid, so.)

As much as I do dearly love the most precious purple darling of my heart Jiang Cheng, from Wei Wuxian's perspective I can't really blame him for being at least a little bit peeved! There was a siege, after all, and it's not like Jiang Cheng is exactly nice to him either in the present timeline. So there's some 'turnabout is fair play' involved there. I might think he's simply objectively wrong in some of his evaluations of Jiang Cheng, but from an emotional perspective it makes sense and is probably on the mild side, all things considered.

In some ways, I think Wei Wuxian is somewhat invested in the idea of being someone that lets anything and everything go. Partially because it's true that he really does let go of a lot, perhaps to the point where the line is between a healthy amount of letting go and plain avoidance could be called into question, but also because it's what Jiang Yanli told him that's what he was like:

Jiang YanLi said that he was born with a smiling look. No matter what unfortunate thing happened, he wouldn't cling on to them; no matter what situation he was in, he would be happy.

-- Ch. 24, ExR translation

To some extent I think he wants to live up to that, to still be who his shijie said he is, back before everything horrible happened and he was trapped in a downward spiral. So he tries to suppress the greater part of both his anger and resentment, but it still sort of... leaks out, in all those small comments.

In some ways they're mirror opposites of each other: Jiang Cheng is aggressively bitter and angry to suppress how much he still cares about Wei Wuxian, and Wei Wuxian is comparatively civil and pleasant, considering the circumstances, to suppress the genuine pain and anger he feels.

And in some way, that response - the muted sort of civility - sets Jiang Cheng off even more, because it plays so strongly into his fears and insecurities that he cares more about Wei Wuxian than Wei Wuxian cares about him. The way their personalities and coping mechanisms and miscommunications all compound and echo off each other and create this awful swirling chasm between them is tragic but also rings so painfully true.

I think their first big confrontation after Jiang Cheng knows for sure that he was right, that it's really Wei Wuxian - in the inn after Jiang Cheng 'borrows' Fairy - really encapsulates that dynamic between them.

Although his face had always been clouded, marked with arrogance and satire, it seemed as if every corner of it had come alive. It was difficult to determine whether it was vengeful wrath, fathomless hatred, or raving ecstasy.

-- Ch. 23. Love or hate, that's... a lot of feelings going on right there on Jiang Cheng's side. And then (from his perspective) he gets a whole lot of bland nothing back.

For a moment, no one spoke a word. The cup of tea was still steaming hot. Without having a single sip of it, he hurled it onto the ground. Jiang Cheng pulled a curt smile on his face, "... Don't you have anything to say to me?" […] With a sincere tone, Wei WuXian replied: "I don't know what to say to you." Jiang Cheng whispered: "You really don't learn, do you?"

And then to add insult to injury, later in the scene what finally provokes a real response from Wei Wuxian is insulting Lan Wangji.

If I had to take a stab at it, I'd probably say that Jiang Cheng's terrible reaction to non-reactions probably has something to do with his father's vague non-confrontational disappointment and general apathy, on top of just being infuriating in general.

But it's the scene in ch. 32 where the random children are playing out the Sunshot campaign where we see that Wei Wuxian's really not so unbothered about what happened between them at all:

"Jiang Cheng", "Hmph, I can't be better than you? Do you remember how you died?" The light smile on Wei WuXian's face dissipated at once. It was as if he had suddenly been pricked by a poisonous needle. A faint, sharp pain came from all around his body.

Even though it's the situation as seen through third parties who only having rumors to go off of (and the novel reminds us over and over again how accurate that is, even following up in later chapters to have Wei Wuxian clarify), it's obvious that being reminded of the general situation actually is pretty painful for him even if the details aren't particularly accurate. It takes him by surprise and hits where it hurts.

I think this whole pattern between the two of them plays heavily into the lead-up to the Ancestral Hall confrontation, actually - which is also where Wei Wuxian's sourness and dismissiveness is at its peak, and so is Jiang Cheng's fury and bitterness at Wei Wuxian's flippant attitude.

From Jiang Cheng's perspective, he's having just how little Wei Wuxian cares about him shoved in his face right after he'd just been prepared to do something that looks vaguely like dying for him at the Second Siege. Meanwhile, I'm pretty sure Wei Wuxian doesn't know any of that preparing-to-sacrifice-himself stuff even happened, since he was a little busy turning himself into bait with spirit lure flags and all.

So, as usual, everything is horribly amplified by all the things each of them doesn't know about the other. All the things they don't know they don't know come to a head.

Unfortunately only Jiang Cheng comes out of that Ancestral Hall really knowing anything that he didn't know before.

For most of the novel, there's also just... less that he knows about Wen Ning and Lan Wangji. There's so much less baggage, less intensity.

Wen Ning, bless him, Wei Wuxian only knew as a living person for one afternoon at an archery tournament and then for three days at the Supervisory Office in Yiling. (Well, plus the time spent on the mountain for the golden core transfer but I don't think they were sitting around chatting over a nice cup of tea for that.) Of course some of what Wen Ning does really does deserve praise - he did help them at great personal danger to himself. But does Wei Wuxian even really know him? Wen Ning's suppressed resentment in life becomes a powerful tool for Wei Wuxian later, but how much does he really know about his hopes and fears and dreams? A significant chunk of time in the Burial Mounds is spent with no consciousness on Wen Ning's part, and once he regains consciousness there's still this sort of... lingering weird vibe with them until the very end of the novel when Wen Ning becomes more independent. There's genuine friendship, but there's also a sort of avoidance of ever really touching the topic of how Wen Ning feels about being used as his weapon, about being raised as a fierce corpse, about the possibility of being controlled by him, about the decisions Wei Wuxian made for him.

Wen Ning is also just... easy to like. He's sweet and polite -- and he never really pushes back or questions Wei Wuxian's decisions or hits him where it hurts the way Jiang Cheng does.

All he really knows about Lan Wangji for a good chunk of the novel is that he's the goody-two-shoes Lan from summer camp who condemns evil or whatever. Obviously that perception changes drastically throughout the story as more information is revealed and misunderstandings from the past are corrected, but he'd never really had any expectations in his past life for LWJ, and so it left far less room for disappointment, since he didn't realize how LWJ really felt. So what's not to praise?

Of course from a more meta standpoint LWJ is frequently used as a direct contrast to Jiang Cheng, often in ways that are intentionally deceptive on MXTX's part in service to the overall goal of trickle-truthing us about Jiang Cheng over the course of the novel. The setup is constantly reframing his character with tidbits of new information. For example the way Wei Wuxian reacts when seeing Lan Wangji's discipline whip scars in ch. 11 is clearly meant to lead us to believe Jiang Cheng committed some horrible transgression to recieve his own discipline whip scar... and then we find out actually it was from Wen Chao torturing him after the fall of the Jiang sect, because he foolishly, impulsively rushed back to recover his parents' bodies from Lotus Pier, forcing his long-suffering shixiong to sacrifice his own core... except oh wait, that's not what happened at all, except Wei Wuxian doesn't know that last part. So some of the early comparisons I think were also meant to serve that purpose.

But in terms of how Wei Wuxian uses this sort of dismissiveness to avoid confronting how much he's really lost, I think the way he regards Lotus Pier itself is pretty telling:

Although he had always dreamed of returning to Lotus Pier once more, he didn't want to go back to the tattered one nowadays!

Because isn't it just easier to think about how it's not that great anyway, so who cares if you've lost it?

#thinking too much about them again #yunmeng shuangjie feelings #I probably have more thoughts on this topic that I forgot before I wrote them down because really it can go on forever #there's just so much!#they're just so them!#they make me so stupid over them!#they keep me up at night thinking about tragic inevitability!

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