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iaintyourbro · 3 years

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The Unknown Journey Continues

Part 1

I know it's been a while... but I've been going down a rabbit hole with @starlight-samurai regarding time loops, Jenova, Minerva, and more fun. So I figured I'd try to put it into one post to get the insanity out of my head. Everything in here is based on things we've found by either going through more obscure Ultimanias, learning more about Dirge of Cerberus and trying to decipher what the hell Jenova is by putting together various sources - including other Square Enix games - and how they handled freakishly similar scenarios.

Did you know there is a companion mobile game for it that was out on the good old flip phones? Did you know there was an online mode in Dirge of Cerberus only available in Japan, but had story elements that were not in the main game?

The sad part is, there's still so much to go through...

(I've also had various discussions with @ourfinalheaven, Manu, who doesn't have Tumblr, so here is her Twitter. and Somebody's Nightmare (here is her Twitter). So I wanted to tag them here, as it's much more fun to discuss these ideas as a group, since it'll only help you build on and strengthen your own ideas.)

Please be aware, there will be Spoilers for FFVII - Almost all Compilation titles, Xenogears, and NieR Automata throughout this.

So let's go on a journey where we explore what actually already exists in the compilation - including the idea of the whispers and timeloops - how Minerva may play into everything, and what exactly Jenova is capable of doing.

I asked Sesi if he'd ever played any of the NieR games, because he'd said something that made me wonder if they were going to take a similar approach. As a very, very quick high level summary: NieR Automata deals with a time loop type of idea. The androids will be rebooted and repeat the same things over and over again. This is broken when 2B is killed by A2 because she becomes infected with a virus. That being said, you have the option after Ending E to either erase all of your data and end the cycle OR you can try again. The Pods have a discussion, and one asks, "But won't they just do the same thing again?" and the other replies with "Maybe. But it could also be different this time."

Here's Sesi's message back to me when I asked him about this (cleaned up a bit since we were having a casual conversation over Discord):

Maybe I could just guess based comparatively on the Dirge storyline, because that was sort of SE's first flirtation with “robots and androids” since they’re all programmed and locked behind like task managers and shit that can shut them down. The story of the online mode for DoC that came out in Japan, we never got to see it, you’re basically an Android OC and you have to get to “the end of the level” and then essentially die, and a new one takes its place. This keeps happening until Weiss is essentially freed from being able to be task managed by the guys who are suppose to be able to control them and I know from tons of years with Square games that they’re verrrrry bad at differentiating their narratives they tend to just keep “ripping themselves off” so is it anything close to that?

Cuz if so I think I kinda know what you’re saying and yeah, I agree, I think with CC bringing in its poetic symbolism and LOVELESS, and DoC bringing back the cyclic nature of the lore, whispers, premonitions and future visions, proto-Materia and the perversion of this next cycle since the planet can no longer cleanse and protect itself and its will is weakening lesser and lesser to the point where it’s fate is “in a true sense of jeopardy This time essentially it’s all tied in together and sort of played as though it's a fated track; a cycle of events and something has hitched it, thus the whispers manifesting and Sephiroth's higher implied control over his destiny. Of course, even all that is just their new red herring game, but it’s definitely a part of the lore they want to play with, in order to go back and reMAKE the OG with the comp inserted from inception. Also gut punch a lot.

Time Loops

I was somewhat surprised to find out that this concept is NOT new to FFVII's universe. It's discussed in Dirge of Cerberus... probably one of the least played and least understood of the compilation. (Trying to sell a third person shooter with terrible controls to a market of mostly people used to turn-based combat wasn't going to go well.)

On top of it, we didn't even get all of it, since online mode was never released outside of Japan, and the Dirge of Cerberus Lost Episode was on Amp'd Mobile and Verizon flip phones back in 2006. Were you around for the cell phones in 2006? I had the ones on the list, and how somebody could play a game on those blows my mind.

Square has a tendency to reuse themes from their other titles. Probably one of the most blatant is the similarities between Xenogears and Final Fantasy VII. They were both being developed at the same time and a lot of ideas that didn't make it into FFVII ended up in Xenogears.

NieR

So how does this work? In NieR (both Replicant and Automata), you play the same path multiple times. Each time, it's slightly different depending on what side quests you did your first and second playthrough, but there's also other subtle differences throughout the story. In Automata, you get to play as 2B your first playthrough and 9S for your second. They follow the same path, but you get it from his perspective the second time and it reveals a bit more of what is going on. However, even with some slight differences, the main plot points stay the same and the ending result it also the same.

Then on your third playthrough, you wake up in the Bunker, and you're getting ready to go on a new mission. This time, though, 2B is killed and shit hits the fan. Things get crazy, you play as a new character: A2. In the end, pretty much everyone "dies", but you can choose to "reboot" and try again. You also can say you are done and let them all rest and delete your save data (the game gives you the option for both Automata and Replicant, and with Replicant, it actually leads to a new ending).

The striking thing for me is... There are certain events that will always happen, no matter what.

Fixed Points in Time

It's been years since I've watched Doctor Who, but there was something that stuck with me, and that was the fixed points in time. You can read about all of them here, but here's the basics:

Now, of course Doctor Who goes into this with much more detail and it's a recurring theme. However, as you read through that page, you'll probably find many aspects that have been used in various JRPGs that you've played. And Doctor Who most likely pulled some of the idea from classic Science Fiction novels. Each story puts its own spin on it.

How does this relate to FFVII Remake? Well, when they say that the major plot points will stay the same, it reminds me of this. No matter what, Cloud must fall into the Sector 5 Church, the Sector 7 Plate must be dropped, Aerith and Zack both must die, and Meteor has to be summoned, to name a few. So, with a time loop, those things would still have to take place in order to prevent a complete collapse of reality (at least in how Doctor Who uses it).

Therefore, the Whispers are ensuring that the Will of the Planet is followed.

One of the major themes in FFVII is that of loss. People die and they do not come back. Yes, other FF games do allow this to happen (FFX, FFXIII, FFXV), but VII is not those games. It was written with that idea in mind, that once a person dies, they, just like in real life, are dead and cannot be brought back.

I've previously written that I think they'll make us believe we are able to change fate, but we will eventually be slammed with the reality that we can't. That is because the planet has determined that certain events are fixed points.

Xenogears

Xenogears takes a bit of a different approach to the loop idea. Instead of repeating the same time period over and over, it has the characters reincarnated, and the same outcome happens each time: Elly dies. However, each time it's different. After all, they're in various time periods, in some cases thousands of years apart.

In all of the lives of Fei (who will have a different name in each time period) and Elly (who is always Elly/Elhaym), Elly will end up dying trying to protect Fei and the others. In one life, she is a religious figure at a totally not Catholic church, in another she's the wife of a scientist who was working to create children from nanomachines due to mass infertility issues. But she is ALWAYS with Fei, even if his name changes.

In her Mother Elhaym time, this is when Lacan (Fei) finally snaps. Though he's not fully aware of his past lives, he becomes aware, the anger consumes him, and he becomes Grahf. Fei is then reborn into the time period you play the game in.

There's a lot to unpack with this, so I won't go into it. Grahf wants to destroy God (Deus) because he thinks if he does, then it'll stop the suffering (his suffering).

If you do want to read more about Grahf, you can do so here, but it probably won't make much sense unless you've played Xenogears up to that point... Since it's much later in the game that this is all explained.

Lacan's desire was to stop the cycle of Elly always sacrificing herself for his sake. Though Grahf is not a perfect existence - he's not fully "The Contact", he sacrifices himself in order to let Fei move forward, and hopefully stop the cycle, by destroying the Deus system. (Elly also tries to sacrifice herself here, but Fei goes after her and stops her.)

Now, some people may think I'm saying that Cloud or somebody is going to do this in order to save Aerith or Zack (or his village or mom), but in FFVII if they do the loop method, I don't think Cloud, Tifa, Barret, and the others are aware of it. Most likely, it's only 'Sephiroth' and Aerith who are aware of it.

How this Could Be used for Final Fantasy VII

I'm stressing could because there's so many different possibilities on how they use this (if they are using this), so please, don't take this as fact. This is based on speculation based on what we know.

A time loop is a great way to explain away the differences in the story that we've seen: Biggs being alive, Wedge living for longer than he should have, etc. Since these are not major plot changes, they can simply say that this time it'll be slightly different... but your fixed points (major plot points) will remain the same.

It's a way to pull in some of the more obscure themes from Dirge of Cerberus and also play with the LOVELESS lore.

It could all simply be a big red herring and it's really just a remake of OG, but with the compilation tied together nicely... since it works much better when it's combined and not in 50 different games, books, movies, etc.

I don't think it's a "sequel" per say, not in the way I generally perceive a sequel. It's more of a loop of the same thing. The question is, when is the loop started and what will cause it to end? When will the planet (if it even is the planet) determine that it's good enough to begin moving forward?

JENOVA, Sephiroth, Genesis, and Minerva - Oh My!

Let's be real... Genesis isn't exactly the most popular character in the FFVII Compilation... but what if they make him one of the most important to the story? //Ducks as various fruits and vegetable are thrown in my direction//

I think what Genesis is probably most known for is his love of LOVELESS. He has the entire thing memorized and randomly says lines from it throughout Crisis Core. LOVELESS lore is still something I'm trying to grasp, so I am not going to comment much on it. Once I understand it more, I'll update this.

...And then this happens. The secret ending for Dirge of Cerberus, where Genesis picks up Weiss. Weiss, who has now been introduced along with Nero in FFVII INTERmission and is an optional ridiculously hard boss in the Shinra battle simulator in chapter 17 of the main story. There is some lore associated with the battle sim - so if you don't plan on beating it or you just can't, you can look up the pre-battle and post-battle cut scenes on YouTube. They're very short, but interesting. (I beat this asshole last night - it's a hell of a fight.)

....To Be Continued because apparently Tumblr won't allow more than 10 images per post now.... Next will be more on JENOVA and Sephiroth along with Minerva.

#ffvii #ffvii genesis #ff7 genesis #ff7 intergrade #ff7 intermission spoilers #FFVII intermission spoilers #FFVII Intermission #Final Fantasy VII #Dirge of Cerberus #FFVII Weiss #Xenogears #nier automata #final fantasy vii #ff7r #final fantasy 7 #timey wimey

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captainshazamerica · 3 years

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If this Bruce doesn't adopt Tim I will! But I'm kinda scared for Tim I mean he's either gonna end up with Buce or the titans at some point, im afraid that something terrible is gonna happen his family and then titans/bruce takes him in? That boy loves batman and robin so much like even his family seeing the news knew how much it would upset him although I will say that for the brain that kid has he makes some pretty stupid decisions, hes driving around GOTHAM plastered in the bat-symbol that's not a good idea! the amount of lunatics that roam free in Gotham (and possibly have escaped from arkham) and hate the bat and hes driving around with the bat symbol on him KID be careful!

Some kind of Anti-fear toxin does seem more accurate cuz he's clearly taking something to not be afraid. Maybe it's something he found in Gotham and decided to try it and got addicted so he's using that lab place to try recreate it? and maybe he can't recreate it perfectly cuz in the crowbarring scene he seemed kinda anxious about his surroundings and he'd just taken that inhaler thing to overcome fear so I dunno?? Or maybe he went to arkham to see Crane for some reason and Crane has orchestrated the whole thing and told him about the drug but then wouldn't Crane have to know everyone's identity then? Dude I dunno I need more episodes even tho the low quality glitchyness is painful lol

There's probably an abundance of rooms to choose from at Wayne manor yet Jason takes Dicks old room and keeps the flying graysons posters up! I like to think that he does view dick as an older brother and just took his room to kind of have a connection to him and that he admires him hence the graysons posters being left up, yooo dick calling him his brother! I really want a nice family reunion with dick jason and bruce 💕

Babs was too mean to bruce when she went off like I get where she's coming from but yo lady his son just died dial it down like a notch yikes but also babs being like 'i wonder how long it'll take for bruce to replace jason and dick is all 'what no the last thing bruce is gonna do is rope another kid into this mess'. Cut to scene of Bruces potential robin folder 😅 but I also like that dick was trying to be considerate and compose himself for bruce but once he found out that bruce is idiot enough to pull another kid into this, that that's when he got mad and bruce so brokenly begging dick to come back and be robin 😢😢😢

I know the show is constantly trying to push bruce out/sideline him cuz it's a titans show not a bruce wayne show and I know they're going for a different portrayal of bruce which I'm not complaining about I do like this version of bruce (more than I thought actually) and this universe but I feel like they could have gave more cracks you know, I like that they showed him trying to avoid the reality of jasons death and just not stopping not even for a second and just immediately jump into another case and that breakdown verge where he's begging dick to be robin and then when he finally I guess let's the weight of jasons loss sit on him to the point where he whacks in jokers head with a crowbar just like he killed jason (he could have killed joker so many other ways like a less violent bullet to the head but oh no brucey crowbars him to death!!)

There's a lot of character stuff that i do like but that scene where he's in the cave on his knees scrubbing his sons blood out of the suit he died in, the suit that he only ever wore because of batman. 😢 I feel like they could have had him crack there and let out a gut wrenching scream and then just continue on doing what he was doing as if nothing happened and dick walking in on that should have had more of a reaction!? like he could have stopped in his tracks at the sight of his brothers blood all over his father and bruce screaming, dick could have like took a step back almost like he's gonna run but forces himself to stay there, because who wouldn't want to run from that and no matter how much horrible things you've dealt with before sometimes your brain does just take over against your will and makes you react, the rest of the scene just could have played out the way it did. Literally one ounce more emotion is all I wanted.

No one really emotionally cracked at jasons death. I get that it just happened and that people put walls up and denial can be such a prominent thing when a loved one dies but it couldn't have been that difficult to put in little mannerisms now and again to show that everyone is deeply hurt but holding it in. Honestly gar seemed more hurt to me than dick did. But I do like that dick reacted in detective mode and started trying to figure things out from jasons side so at least there's that.

This redhood is defo not an anti hero he has well and truly landslided into villian territory and I dunno how that's gonna be reconciled? they better not kill him off! and they better not just straight up keep redhood/jason as a full on villian! but if they do get through to jason and bring him back a little how the heck is that little man gonna deal with what he did to Hank?? I feel like they had a bond you know and for all Hanks talk about putting Jason down I really don't think that Hank would actually have killed him even if it came down to Hanks life vs Jasons I think Hank would rather die than kill Jason (but that's heavily biased cuz in my mind jason is my son and I freaking love hank sooo) but Hank to me puts on a hard front like 'yeah I'll get in your face I'll come at you b*tch' but internally he's like 'yeah I'll come at you to help you' 😅 like internally he defo has a lot of soft spots though that's not to say he'd be like this for someone like the joker or scarecrow or whatever guys like that he'd be like no screw you you die or go to arkham like byeee

Nevermind how jason is gonna come back from this though HOW IN THE ACTUAL SH*T is dawn gonna come back from this!!?!!

Random side note here but imagine Jasons first time in the batcave he would be so excited and trying to mess with everything and being like ohh what's that do and pressing random buttons and bruce having a hernia trying to get jason to stop before he accidentally blows the cave up 😅 also he has probably been caught several times trying to 'borrow' the batmobile, I can just picture him trying to sneak down the halls of the manor without the floor creaking and making it all the way into the cave and doing a victory dance cuz he didn't get caught and he hops on into the batmobile in his pj's and let's out a scream cuz alfred is sitting in the freakin passenger seat waiting for him and then they just hang out in the batmobile alfred had the good foresight to bring a flask of tea books and a blanket for jason

Speaking of Alfred I think it would have been more angsty and hurtful if Alfred died shortly after Jason and after a few days Jason claws his way out his grave and the first thing he sees is Alfreds headstone and that's how he finds out Alfred died : (((

This is so long girl I'm sorry I know it doesn't seem like it but I did restrain myself 😅 one more thing before I go maybe this Dick is the absolute worst mf and the reason babs feels betrayed by him and is so upset with him could be that he left her (or cheated on her) with Dawn cuz of that weird flashback thingy in the other season where dick dawn was a thing I dunno I hope not though that would be ughhh

Oh crap, you right about probably something bad will happen to Tim for Bruce or Titans to take him in, I was gonna say he could just demand to be in their lives to save Bruce/Dick like in the comics but he also has kinda shitty parents normally and these people seem cool so really it could go either direction, but like it’s Titans so it doesn’t look good lol. Also, I wonder if it’s gonna be Dick who is basically gonna adopt him this time since we already had a huge track record in just 2 seasons lmao. But I know right, true I like how his parents knew immediately how much the news would effect him 😭 I hope he goes down the making himself robin and forcing himself in Dick and Bruce’s life xD I love that route. Lmao, the kid is all book smart, very little street smart when it doesn’t have to do with outsmarting someone XD

I was also rewatching and that gas he takes def has to be some anti fear toxin cause he mentions fear so many times and flash backed to his near death fall, which he felt was probably holding him and back and thus had to prove himself and adds to whatever is influencing him. But ohhh he did seem pretty dang anxious at the carnival grounds, that’s a really interesting theory but recreating something he found hmm, I can see that.

Apparently according to a YouTube who got to see the first 5 episodes, we find out what his deal is a lot more in episode 5, so one more week hopefully

Brooo trueee, I couldn’t believe jason took dick’s room and like didn’t even change anything. Like Jason looks or at least use to look up to Dick SO much, like in his first episode in the first season, he went on quite a lot about how much he had always wanted to meet him and how much he looked up to him, which is probably also fueling his red hood rage, being hurt by your idol and brother like he did in S2 must have really just killed the boy. But yes omg, there freaking better be a dang family reunion scene like, after so much angst we deserve that 😭

And yesss, I loved seeing how mature Dick is getting and just how much he is growing as a character, the fact he was so calm and considerate with Bruce at first really shows that compared to s1 Dick, only breaking when Bruce tried to get more kids involved. That scene by Brenton was sooo well acted omg, the way he yelled that he doesn’t want to robin again, heartbreaking man. And Bruce begging like that omg

Yeah, this version of Bruce is def so different than any Bruce we have seen on screen before, like def the most emotionally constipated, and that’s saying something xD But I like how they are taking a risk, it also helps Dick’s character more and give him more of an arc, as he seems to be taking on Bruce’s normal role with Jason and red hood. Bro, you are so right omg, like the fact Bruce could have killed the joker in any way and he does it with the dang crowbar. It really shows how broken he really was and why the man shouldn’t depressing any and every damn feeling and emotion lol.

Omg, I love how you have the exact details of what you wanted to happen in that one Bruce and Dick scene 😂👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 bro if you dont already you should totally write fanfics cause that was so detailed, I love it

Yeah, I do wish someone cracked (other than Bruce lmao) a bit more, but I do think each character reacted in character though, like it is very Dick(at least this version of Dick, other versions may break down tbh) to put everything into solving the case and figuring out what was up, that’s more this version’s way of caring than just breaking down, like he rarely ever has broken down completely. I think dawn could have been a little more emotional about the death (tho she has enough coming for her lmao). Connor didn’t know Jason that well so it makes sense he would just be sad. Gar seemed pretty sad and in character about it, maybe could have had a bit more, same with Kori, tho she showed it by being almost angry and fiercely protective of everyone else, so I think that makes sense for her. It would have been interesting to see how Rachel and Rose would have reacted though (where did rose go btw?! She would so have a reaction to Jason’s death). But yeah, i wish there was more resolution and break downs for Jason, but also it may have just not felt real since they weren’t there? But I agree

You think? Idk, I think they could def still make him an anti hero towards the end, especially if it’s crane behind the whole thing. Cause if they don’t they are gonna have to go down the gosh awful overused villain gets redeemed while he dies/only to die right freaking after , and I will be so freaking livid if they do that omg. Like they better freaking not. But true, he would be broken by what he did to Hank, oh yikes. But I can see him then that leading to the anti hero path, like he would never go back to be on the titans cause he would feel too guilty, thus giving more of a reason for the anti hero life. But I know, I loved Jason and Hank’s love hate relationship 😭😭😭😭 You know Hank secretly loved the kid and probably saw himself in him.

Yikes poor dawn, you right. Like I have no idea how she is gonna be now like wow.

OMG GIRL, You are on a hc angst train today!!!! That scenario of Alfred dying right after jason and Jason climbing out to see Alfred’s?! Heartbreaking!

But I can’t believe they killed Alfred off so casually tho😭

Omg I swear if they freaking show Dick having cheated on Babs I will be so freaking pissed omg, he better have not! Im hoping they had a more high school romance thing/grew up together then got together type of thing

And omg don’t apologize I LOVED IT and reading your asks!!! I feel ya too!

#batanon #titans #titans spoilers #Titans S3 #titans season 3 #Titans speculation #speculation #ask #Meredith gets an ask #Jason Todd #dick Grayson #Meredith thoughts

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blackasmidnightcats · 4 years

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QfG Rants and Remakes part 5

Big thanks to both @agathasarmy and @yarasquad for sharing their ideas with me and believing that I could actually make a coherent rant without being too swallowed up by my emotions and hopefully I'll be able to do the same here.

P.S. Imma change the title of the next Rants and Remakes cause it's definitely not focusing on QfG anymore and it's gonna focus of AWWP so yeah...there's that to look forward too.

Chaddick & Yara + Tagatha interlude

Note: This post was originally gonna be titled "Chaddick & Yara + Mourning the Departed" and would have turned out as how it is explained below but as I was writing about Chaddick I realized that I needed to talk about something concerning Tagatha and realized that this post would have been too long for all three so I gonna move the "Mourning of Departed" in its own post. Hope you guys understand. Tagatha has a strong pull with me.

Imma actually gonna outline this cause I need to organize my thoughts and at least with this I could remember the direction that I would be heading.

First part's definitely going to talk about how Chaddick and Yara's death is bs

Then imma explain why them staying alive would have impacted the TCY storyline a lot more meaningfully (p.s. this is where the Tagatha interlude will be found)

And last (and this has been moved to its own post so stay tuned for it), I would also like to nitpick Soman's obvious lack of thought when it comes to the characters that have departed (mainly Callis and Lady Lesso and August Sader) and how it should have affected the characters (mainly Sophie and Agatha)

How Chaddick and Yara could have helped the storyline better

WARNING: I realized while writing this that I kinda made Chaddick and Yara more flawed than they are writen because I have to think about their character growth and they can't have that without having any flaws. So expect some more drama with these two than needed as I share my thoughts on how their characters could have went. They get better in the end believe me.

So I think that everyone in the fandom is one with the idea that Chaddick's death was one of the MOST worst decisions that Soman made.

As @agathasarmy said it once, Chaddick's death is more frustrating than sad because of how out of nowhere it is.

Via @agathasarmy:

but… Chaddick??? dying??? IN THE BEGINNING OF THE SERIES????

IT DOESNT MAKE SENSE, AND THE ONLY WAY IT MAKE SENSE IS COS SOMAN OBVIOUSLY DID IT TO INTRODUCE RHIAN AND THATS THE SHITTIEST THING ABOUT IT

HE REDUCED CHADDICK’S DEATH AS A PLOT DOOR WITHOUT PROPERLY SUBSTANTIATING CHADDICK’S CHARACTER FIRST SO INSTEAD OF US TRULY MOURNING HIS LIFE WE’RE JUST LEFT WITH THIS HOLLOW FEELING OF WHAT HE COULD’VE BEEN AS AN INTEGRAL CHARACTER TO THE PLOT

THIS

Chaddick's death felt hollow because it was a PLOT DEVICE. It didn't (or at least Soman didn't) conscider Chaddick much of a character but a means and once this happens some deaths can be very very hollow.

Like his POV chapter was very hard to read all because especially once you find out that he's dead by the end of it (SHAME SOMAN, SHAME) because his story and plot had so much potential. We weren't able to properly feel sad about his lost because we didn't get to know him better.

It just feels tragic. So much potential lost, all because Soman wanted Tedros to feel vulnerable because he lost his close friend.

WHICH SOMAN DIDN'T REALLY NEED TO DO

I explained already why this is bull and I'm gonna explain later what could have happened for Chaddick's character.

But in summary on why Soman didn't need to do it: EXPECTATIONS

Chaddick and Tedros would have been stressed out with all the expectations and comparison with Arthur and Lancelot. One wrong move could have broke them apart easily.

But Soman could have also not wanted to deal with Chaddick against his Sophie obssession so there could be that too.

SHAME SOMAN

Now, Yara.

Our little Soft Girl

She should not have died.

She really shouldn't have

W h y ?

Because her being alive would have impacted the story more than her death ever did. Just like Chaddick.

And if the problem was what she could have affected in the storyline in TLEA, then she could have been on the sides like. . . as Tristan from time to time or something.

Her being alive would have not affected or change TLEA at all. Like if more important characters like the Coven and the League can fade into the background then so could she.

But I really don't imagine her being in the school for New Evil with Aric as Dean. No, maybe Yuba could have hidden her with the League and she could have accompanied Princess Uma when they were getting Tedros and Agatha and then accompanied the Leuge or something.

Really it would have been that simple. C'mon.

Plus Kiko has been reduced to wreck after that. At least, with Yara being alive she could have fixed herself a bit more.

Okay

So in summary again: CHADDICK AND YARA SHOULD NOT HAVE DIED AND SHAME ON SOMAN FOR KILLING THEM OFF

Now, let's get to the juicier part, what could these two have contributed to the TCY storyline.

On Chaddick

It's pretty obvious what Chaddick's role should have been. He should have been important to the plot because his role would have been about breaking the comparison between the Past and the Present (see Soman, it could have been integrated into your canon plot) between him, Tedros, and Agatha to Lancelot, Arthur, and Gwen.

I'm pretty sure that Camelot has its eyes on these three.

It's pretty freaking convenient that they all have a predecessor to be compared to. And I'm pretty sure that it's not just Camelot who notices the pattern. I mean the whole freaking Woods read about this affair.

So Chaddick, along with Tedros and Agatha, should have been the ones that break this chain. It could have symbolized that Camelot was entering into a new, better era after a similar relationship broke it.

Like, a King, his beloved Queen and his most trusted Knight brought hope but ended in a Tragedy.

Now, another King, his beloved Queen and his most trusted Knight are skeptically judged for having the same pattern and they instead bring the Glory that first trio didn't

With Tedros, Agatha, and Chaddick united with each other bringing Camelot out of its traumatic experience with Tedros's parents, Camelot finally accepting that these three are not the same as Arthur, Gwen, and Lance and fully supporting them DESPITE the fear, would have been a much stronger message of that 'the past doesn't always repeat itself.'

Because with Rhian being known and most propably remembered as Tedros's most trusted Knight and betraying him in the end, it's like a copy of what Lance technically did to Arthur.

It just further proved that Camelot's King would always be betrayed by the ones they trust most.

Sadly for Arthur, he was betrayed by both Gwen and Lance and they left him alone.

While Tedros still has Agatha but without Chaddick the lesson simply is not learned.

Chaddick was integral to this formula because Camelot would have had to face yet another propable tragedy for their beloved King in the hands of the people he loves. With Tedros, Agatha, and Chaddick, complete, proving that they could do better despite having just a strong a bond as what Arthur and co had and Camelot accepting and trsuting this, the previous wounds would be replaced with new Hope.

Because even if that whole affair happened and ruined the Kingdom, at least they have proof that it's not always gonna happen that way.

And that's why Rhian being remembered as Tedros's Knight hurts this idea. Cause he betrayed him too.

Anyway, hopefully I made my point with this legacy thing.

Plus Chaddick and Arthur's Round Table training him. WHY SOMAN WHY?!?!?!

And now, imma explain what I think should have happened with Chaddick and how his character development and his role should have played out.

Because Chaddick is a pretty well rounded character, his POV chapter proves that he's brave, and is willing to die for his friends and what's right, and there isn't really much flaws to him aside from that he can sometimes make the most worst decisions despite being pretty wise.

I honestly cannot tell if he is stupid sometimes or Soman just does this to him cause PLOT.

Fandom I need help with this. Give me some opinions.

Like. . . he's wise enough to know what was right, examples being warning Tedros about Sophie and the first to listen to Agatha in AWWP, but also dumb or ignorant enough to bully Agatha in Book 1 and that VERY IMPORTANT THING ABOUT completely ABUSING Tedros is AWWP.

Like I'm kinda confused with him.

Well maybe we can say that he's a bit ignorant and maybe was raised with privilege so that's why he bullied Agatha in Book 1 and kinda wisened up in Book 2 about her.

But I am not excusing his attitude towards Tedros in AWWP because that was messed up. Well, AWWP was messed up so there is that but if we have to acknowledge that mess and have some closure then I vote for it to come from Chaddick and Yara.

Like maybe the reason why Chaddick is more wise now is because of that very experience. Maybe he could still be a bit guilty about it and that kinda messes with his mind cause he still thinks that Tedros is still the same boy those years ago in their second year and Rhian uses this to his advantage.

Actually, thinking about it this makes so much sense.

Like instead of AGATHA having the trust issues (thought I wouldn't completely vanish it, just not at the same level as she does in canon) it's CHADDICK that has them. Cause he's always kinda gets haunted by what happened in AWWP.

I mean Tedros replaced him with ARIC of all people when he failed to retrieve Agatha. There has to be some animosity between them since. I can imagine that Chaddick kinda felt like him and Tedros could never be as close as when they were during their first year. And he would totally understand it if Tedros never really forgave him for what happened and was at peace with it even if he didn't have enough guts to find a closure for it. He'd respect his friend first and foremost.

But then comes Tedros, all fine and inviting him to be his Knight like that would mess Chaddick up.

He propably couldn't believe it at first and maybe even kindly refused the offer at first but then he sees the heart break in Tedros's face and Chaddick realizes that Tedros really wanted this.

Tedros still sees Chaddick as his closest friend despite what happened in AWWP. And maybe after some thinking, Chaddick realizes that he still wants to have the bond with Tedros like what they had in Book 1. So he accepts.

But of course, they've changed and Chaddick still gets eaten by guilt because I think that he's the kind of person that knows that he did something wrong and wants to repent for it.

So instead of that wise friend that Tedros had in Book 1, Chaddick can't trust his judgement about Tedros because he's scared he'd go too far. So he kinda just agrees to Tedros's ideas and doesn't really give advice. Tedros kinda notices this and tries to talk to Chaddick about it but Chaddick would be all formal to him. Tedros, I don't really know, would think that it would be for his sake with the comparison with Arthur and Lance and all. So he kinda just goes along with it.

It's messy right now guys, I know, I'm kinda butchering Chaddick's character here but I promise it gets better and in my mind he'd be like this for only Book 4. He'd be Wise Chaddick again right after. Just give me a chance to explain.

So they have this kind of miscommunication thing that Canon Tagatha had in QfG instead and that would have made so much more sense and here's why;

Warning: this is officially where the Tagatha interlude starts so if you wanna skip it (why though???) find the sign that states it's the end. It's gonna be in pink too.

The fact that Tagatha was having a miscommunication failure was kinda off with me because 1) they've been over this in AWWP and TLEA. In TLEA Tedros has absolutely no problem with pushing Agatha to share more when she wouldn't and 2) he could easily read her like a book, especially when it counts. Like he could get her favorite food wrong but he always seemed to know what Agatha was having trouble with and was there to help her out and is not afraid to call her out on it (i.e. the Cinderella thing, he was on point there)

Imma provide some examples of Tedros totally getting Agatha when it counts;

AND THIS

AND THIS TOO

WAIT THERE IS MORE (The Tagatha Moment)

AND LET US NOT FORGET

THIS IS WHY TLEA TAGATHA WILL ALWAYS BE BEST TAGATHA.

I get that Agatha's insecure about herself and maybe she was kinda influenced with the Excalibur thing (but I highly doubt it though) but it's no reason for her to get to the conclusion she did at the end of QfG.

I mean girl, you were always thinking that Tedros would be a Great King in TLEA and that's why you've been so insecure about yourself. WHAT HAPPENED TO THAT???

Someone call me out on this PLEASE. I'm hurting myself by judging her too hard.

I can imagine that she would be sceptical with Tedros's ideas and kinda doubting him about it (you guys have no idea how much it hurts typing this) but I can also imagine that she would never doubt that Tedros's heart is in the right place even if she thinks that the way he gets there isn't always the best.

Like we have literal proof that Tedros gets Agatha almost like Sophie does and the best thing is that I'm sure that Tedros would think of the best in mind.

The mess in QfG makes no sense because they should be over this miscommunication bs and it should not have been a thing.

And if it was because of the stress with Excalibur and his responsibilities as King that made Tedros suddenly not get Agatha then WTF Soman!?!?!? I did not ask for this. They were literally about to die in TLEA and yet they could still joke and tease each other and have these cute little scenes with the other.

Instead I got Rhian's b*tch ass being Tedros's therapists when he knows sh*t about this boy and Agatha doubting Tedros like he did something horrible. (Well he did for trusting Rhian but i digress)

I could have had more of these cute Tagatha scenes instead. Like, is it too much to ask for these two to just show their love for each other in other ways than "I will save you" and "You're the best thing ever and I don't want to lose you for this horrible thing that I did or say" like give me small softer moments anytime.

Tedros gently teasing Agatha when she's being difficult and Agatha being totally trying not to show that she's smitten over it.

Agatha trying to be romantic at the most outrageous moments and Tedros being like "?????" but totally finding it cute.

Other character just not getting these two when they do and they are just as confused.

These are the kind of scenes I wanted from them. And if I have to use Chaddick to get it then so be it. (I'm sorry about this, I'm mostly projecting at this point and these really affecting my personal opinions on this matter but I'll try to tone it down a bit so that it's still coherent)

Note: this is the official end of the Tagatha interlude but i'm not keeping any promises that it'll be the last

Anyways, Chaddick and Tedros, they have more reasons with having communication problems because;

They have not been together for a very long time and they've both propably changed since

AWWP. So far, the two of them have had horrible experiences as the last thing that they remember about each other.

As I explained, I headcanon that Chaddick has a somewhat formed a sort of PSTD with it and is very scared that he's gonna mess it up.

I'm not even going to try to explain the PSTD thing cause I feel like I'm not gonna do it justice but I hope you get what I mean.

Chaddick must have become more unsure of himself after AWWP and he must still be trying to fit this new Tedros with the old one that he used to hang out with in Book 1. It would have been a good comparison to show that Tedros has indeed change and grown since then.

Like Chaddick kinda feels like he needs to intervene when Tedros shares a very outrageous suggestion but doesn't know how and kinda ends up in a mess.

Basically imagine Tagatha's problems in QfG and apply to Tedros and Chaddick instead.

And Chaddick would have been suspiscious about Rhian from the beginning. He's a smart savy guy afterall.

So Rhian kinda exploits this and gets the two boys against each other. Because say that Tedros and Chaddick have this big fight propably like the one when Agatha comments that Tedros was being a horrible king but Chaddick's the one that said it instead. Say that this happens around the middle of the Book and it's the final straw between them because they haven't been properly communicating and all the pressure on them. Rhian could easily worm his way to Tedros's side and replace Chaddick nicely. Cause unlile Chaddick, Rhian would make Tedros believe that HE'S the one that believes in him the most.

So they kinda fall apart and Chaddick and Tedros are trying to understand where it all went wrong.

Agatha would try to understand each side and get them to better terms again but she can't do it alone plus a-hole Rhian is butting in.

I imagine that, for me, the logical person that Chaddick might approach on his dilema with Tedros might be Ravan.

Cause the two of them basically think the same way and are usually calm and wise. The only difference would be that Chaddick's more active while Ravan's more passive and choses to observe before making a move. So he calms Chaddick down when he's being too impatient.

Chaddick and Agatha would be talking of course. And I don't know why but I imagine that they're more numb to all the gossip about the three of them especially around each other because they're both sort of level headed and wise then when they're with Tedros individually.

And I imagine this is where the Tagatha drama happens. Only after Rhian cause I wanna be clear that without him, Tagatha would have been fine. He also tries to break them up by saying that Agatha sides with Chaddick and that she doesn't have much faith in Tedros too.

Agatha's going to deny this of course (because it's all bs from Rhian) but Tedros has been too stressed and vulnerable that he sorta starts to believe it and Agatha gets frustrated that Tedros is choosing to believe Rhian when she's known him longer and after everything that they've been through.

But Tedros isn't fully under Rhian's spell. I would have put several times when they would doubt each other especially when Rhian talks crap about Agatha and Chaddick and it would be beserk button for Tedros so Rhian doesn't really go there.

Now Chaddick would be having his little personal battle with himself and Ravan and Agatha would be there to support him and give some advice.

The real kicker would have been when Rhian is adored by Camelot as Tedros's Treasured Knight, someone better than Lancelot and Chaddick kinda has a heartbreaking moment because HE'S supposed to be the one that was known as Tedros's Treasured Knight not this stranger. Not this stranger that stole everything from him especially his best friend.

Agatha hears about this and reflects the time when she gave up her own position as Tedros's queen in TLEA and remembers that Tedros knows her and all her monsters and has been the light to help her fight them.

So she and Chaddick have this talk and she tries to concinve him that Tedros wouldn't want for Chaddick to just give up on him like that. Chaddick thinks about it but is still not completely convinced but Agatha reminds him that Tedros CHOOSE HIM to be his Knight and Liege and they both have to fight for it.

It's Ravan who finally manages to get Chaddick to gear when he asks Chaddick if he's going to regret anything he should choose to either regret letting Tedros go and not fighting for their friendship or make a complete idiot of himself but fight for their friendship instead.

So Chaddick does the latter but everything is too late and the Rhian thing happens as I explained in the first Rants and Remakes post and Chaddick gets tossed into jail with Tedros.

It's in book 5 that I imagine their relationship actually starts to heal itself and they both try to get through everything. I haven't thought of all the kinks out yet but I imagine a lot of fights and Chaddick just kinda shouting what he thinks before he startsvthe regret it and Tedros being this physic and just getting Chaddick too like how he does Agatha.

Again, I haven't thought of everything yet but I'll share it when I do

Now let's move on to Yara

On Yara

Yara would have been more influencial alive then dead and I already explained why how she could have been handled in TLEA cause where I really see exploiting her is in the storyline of TCY.

With the Balance vs Chaos in mind as well as the Lady of the Lake villainess plotline, Yara could have been the answer to this.

She'd be a living reminder of everything that all the characters went through in AWWP and how horribly toxic it is to everyone. Especially those like Yara who lives in the between.

Like with the Lady plotline she would have promoted ultimate purity for both Good and Evil and doesn't believe that each side could be able to understand each other so she thinks that she's promoting Balance that way and that letting each side corrupt the other is Chaos.

She would have believed that Yara is an abomination to the Balance because she is the embodiment of the idea that you can choose some charcteristic from two sides and still be yourself.

Plus with Yara alive the other characters would be forced to rethink their ideals and how to approach this new possibility and reflect on the old ways that have been hurting the ones that are similar to her.

I imagine that Yara's gonna have an internal struggle with this like she's still trying to understand it herself and as she tries to understand it the more that the other characters do as well.

I haven't actually thought out her actual detailed storyline just yet and even though I wanna say more I know that I might butcher her character as I go on but I definitely know her importance to the possible story.

As I explained before, if in TSY was Good VS Evil and that the TCY was about Good AND Evil and how both sides need each other to grow and develop and that the importance of the School still teaching Good and Evil in its most purest form is so that they'd all have a guideline to go by but the curriculum has become more flexible with their beliefs OF Good and Evil and that every student just have shades of grey but choses to go by these either of the two and can still be a Hero or a Villain then Yara could have been the right person to show that it doesn't matter if your not completely on one side and was given the characteristics of the other, it matters what values you choose to follow despite it and how tou choose to use it to help everyone else for the better.

Cause it's canon already that it doesn't matter what they are, it's what they do that counts.

NGL I'm not completely satisfied with how I explained Chaddick and Yara I feel like I didn't do them justice here and I will definitely get back to this when I have organized and fleshed out my thoughts on them

Anyways, if you guys would like to add your own thoughts to this post pls do.

#tedros #agatha #sge #sfgae #tsfgae #the school for good and evil #school for good and evil #soman chainani #chaddick of foxwood #chaddick #yara of avalon towers #tristan of avalon towers #tagatha #agatha of woods beyond #agatha of camelot #tedros of camelot #I personally feel like this was messy and not as detailed as the rest #sorry guys but gonna do them justice #once i've fixed my thoughts m

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