#but he has a major issue with projecting on xie lian

[illuminatedferret]

One of the things that I was always a little confused about was how Mei Nianqing describes that over the centuries, as Jun Wu watched Xie Lian during his second banishment, he 'calmed down' from the displeasure of Xie Lian failing to meet Jun Wu's expectations in Lang'er Bay. Why would he calm down, watching Xie Lian? After all, he was suffering, sure, but we can see from Yong'an and Banyue that he was still living in accordance with his principles, standing strong despite his experiences. What made Jun Wu think that what he was seeing was a sign that Xie Lian, upon ascending and witnessing the sins of the gods up close and personal, would finally give in and become the second White No-Face?

And I realized that, just like he does across the entire series, he was probably projecting on Xie Lian, wasn't he? He probably thought (or, decided to believe) that deep down, each indignity Xie Lian suffered built up resentment and frustration, that he bargained with himself at every hardship, that he was struggling not only physically but also mentally. Surely a man like that would falter, to see that such indignities continue even among the gods.

And I wonder if this is perhaps a look into Jun Wu himself. Is this a sentiment Jun Wu developed over the years, accustomed to hiding away all the ugly and angry pieces of himself, waiting until he was alone to let them out? Or is this perhaps a sentiment that he always carried, deep down? Even as a prince, did he feel some little niggle of resentment when things didn't go his way? When soldiers killed civilians to take their land? When worshipers turned away but still expected to benefit off of him?

When his friends said he'd changed, to suggest human sacrifice, had he truly? Or was he simply finally showing a part of himself that he'd never expressed before? One that grew stronger the more he endured, but that had always been there, deep down?

Or maybe Jun Wu didn't think any of this at all, and he just wanted to see Xie Lian crack, one way or another. But I wonder if we can read deeper into this than that.

#tgcf #tian guan ci fu #heaven officials blessing #xie lian #jun wu #illuspeaks #i think that by book 5 he was also operating under a sunk cost fallacy #like 'ive spent too much time on this to turn back- xianle is doing what i want no matter what he thinks about it' #considering he does basically just. give up at the end. and xie lian speculates on that #but he has a major issue with projecting on xie lian #so i wonder if this sort of underlying resentment is something that #well. jun wu definitely has it now. but i wonder if he had those sorts of feelings as a prince too #i like highlighting xie lian and jun wu's differences because it really accents how blind jun wu's actions were

[evilsexy]

Reading about the serialisation on tgcf's post script (skip to the serialisation section ) where mxtx talks about her own disappointments and the conditions she worked in gave me an insight on why it is the way it is. I do have to agree with mxtx's own assessment of tgcf that indeed it is unsatisfying.

Tbh I also found tgcf to be a very enjoyable read but I am disappointed with the fact that it could have been better, I wouldn't care much about this if it was my entry into mxtx's work but it lacks the tight narrative , subversions and commentary that made her work stand out in the first place. MDZS was the first work I was familiar with and I was surprised by how inherently political it was.

Webnovel industry sucks 😕 but I was kind of rooting for her considering how young she was when she wrote everything and despite other complaints I have about her works I consider her a good story teller who is naturally humorous.

Yep, i remember being a little shocked when i first read the postscript when finishing the novel, because i didn't expect so much self-awareness

TGCF is a complete accident, I haven’t matured yet, this took me by surprise... Had I known the content was going to be this huge, I probably would’ve approached the outline much differently. Only a few chapters in of the serialization, and the problems I had long thought of poked their heads out, and persisted until midway, towards the end, and they’re still there even when the story’s concluded

something else that really stuck out to me was

In any case, Hua Hua is a good boi. Whether he’s smiling fakely, or if he’s got a little silver chain on his boots, all of his designs and related decisions came fast and delightfully. My greatest happiness is to change his clothes and give him new appearances, and felt regret that I couldn’t manage to put together ten sets. Hopefully I can work on this during the edit!

It was actually the Shou, Xie Lian, who tortured me for up to half a year’s time. When the novel started serializing, I was still torn over him for a long time... In the past, when I write, even if I’m not familiar with the character at the beginning, I can usually grasp the feeling within three days. But for Xie Lian, I was still struggling even after five, six days, and my heart lurched.

I think the weakness of the central couple is something that MXTX understands, so she leaned heavily into their indulgent aesthetic value instead. I mean, that's what 耽美 is right, "indulging in beauty"? But maybe that isn't for the best. I feel like this is very telling as to why neither HC nor XL really "feel like" real people; I really don't think that MXTX has an idea of who they are, even after all this time. And maybe to fans who want a blank slate couple to project onto and write AUs and other fanworks, this is ideal, but it's bad writing practice. In MDZS and SVSSS, the main couples feel like real people as do the rest of the cast, but in TGCF that privilege is only granted to side characters.

With Wei Wuxian and Shen Yuan, you can immediately get a grasp of who they are as a person, even from the first chapter, and you can relate to their struggle. With Xie Lian, this isn't the case. We find out he's a "failure", but since he doesn't let it get to him, we end up learning almost nothing about his identity. The reader has no real idea of who he is until book 2, and not even really then. If you asked me what Xie Lian's core motivations and fears are at most points in the novel ... I don't really know if I could give a solid answer. He takes every hit with so much grace and magnanimity that it's hard to put yourself in his shoes, this is the opposite of what you want from a protagonist.

This is also another central issue of TGCF: it has no plot. Xie Lian has no major directive, implicit or explicit, after his third ascension, he just goes with the flow. Not every good novel follows a hero's journey style plot, but I think that MXTX understands that her stories work best under that traditional structure. Seriously, please if you think you can give me a coherent plot summary I encourage you to, but I really struggle to briefly sum up what goes on in this book.

Almost all fans can agree that books 2 and 4 are the strongest sections of the novel. They have the most tension, most interesting character dynamics, and are overall the most memorable. By the time Xie Lian ascends for the third time, the events of these books are so long gone that the tension has dissipated. The plot meanders, and then meanders more. It does not feel like a “finished story”, and we can see that MXTX also feels this way from her comments. 

Cutting the 800 year timeskip could solve so many of this novel's problems; with all of the emotional wounds fresh, character interactions could have been so much more tense and engaging. In my reading it primarily functions to exaggerate Hua Cheng's absolute perfection as a romantic object, but otherwise, it only serves to degrade the novel. At some level, this book seems to exist to sell the reader on the idea of Hua Cheng as the perfect love interest (and hualian as the perfect couple), and looking at the fanbase for this book I think to that end it succeeds.

So, with all that, what does MXTX think this book is about?

This is a love story. It’s about gentleness, dreams, something never to be given up on, and someone never to be forgotten.

I think this is a perfect summary, it evokes a feeling, but certainly not a story. To many fans, that's fine, they sought this work for the feeling of a beautiful romance. To me though, this was not enough, I am infinitely unsatisfied. I wanted to be pulled into a story and then come away with something like I got with SVSSS and MDZS, but in the end I only came away with disappointment.

#again disclaimer that this is my subjective opinion and i really welcome your response if you have a comment or criticism #anon #asks #mxtx #tgcf #long post

[ocdhuacheng]

Hey, so can I ask about the thought process (idk words but anyway) behind why you headcanoned Hua Cheng as having OCD cuz I'm very interested? :0

KSJDNKSJDFN sorry it took so long to reply to this I promise I wasn’t ignoring you I was just overwhelmed this week and then after I actually sat down to write out my very long answer I accidentally unplugged my computer and I LOST IT ALL so sorry but this version Is going to be rather incoherent and missing stuff probably bc its pretty much just copied and pasted from one of my discord rambles/previous posts bc I don’t have the energy or memory to rewrite everything how I had it before.. but ive kept u waiting long enough so. Yeah. Sorry.

Also if I sound salty at all its not anything directed at you im just pissed at myself for writing like >3k words all in tumblr like a fool and not backing it up then accidentally yanking on my computer cord like RIGHT as I was going to post it. But I promise im actually very happy getting asks like these even if it takes me a long time to respond ;_;

So anyway basically the tldr version is that I have ocd and I love rubbing my terrible little projection paws all over my favorite characters, but also I do genuinely think that what we are shown of hua chengs personality and actions does naturally lead to the headcanon that he has ocd (and ocpd), kind of like how it seems very clear to me that wwx has adhd and lwj is autistic.

Longer version under cut bc. Well. Sorry in advance lol

So. To start off. my ocd got suuuuuper bad in my second year of college, like to the point where my parents and psychologist was considering putting me in a hospital, so i know how awful ocd can get. and because of that ive always been kinda annoyed that all the ocd """""rep""""" in media is just comedic relief kinda stereotypical clean-freak perfectionist haha look at this weirdo sort of thing. like I was barely functional I couldn’t do basic tasks the majority of the time. ironically, my room was extremely dirty and messy despite my main obsession being about contamination. so yeah not all ocd manifests as the spotless perfect room perfect closet perfect desk or whatever the fuck. sometimes its the opposite. I also got put on academic probation bc I failed all but one of my classes (the one I passed was an art class. Lowkey think that class was the only thing keeping me out of a psych ward that quarter. lol. But anyway. That’s a different conversation) BUT ANYWAY it was all around Awful. Like idk it makes me feel kind of stupid for being such a mess before my medications when everyone just sees ocd as a joke or something. like for example, i loove death the kid soul eater, and hes a good character to make fun of urself after you’ve been medicated for ocd, but i wouldnt exactly call him good rep lmao. But after that relapse episode, I kind of really really really desperately needed a character/story to relate to about it but yippee! there are approximately zero (0) canon ocd characters that aren’t comedic relief! but anyway, i know hua cheng isnt canonically ocd but i was actually able to project on him alot from what we got of his personality (and i do gotta say, sorry but despite my attachment to him i dont actually think hes written all that well, but thats another rant), and its part of the reason why i love him so much bc hes like, definitely my biggest projecttion in this regard. so anyway

i mean theres no argument that his personality and actions are very. obsessive, and rather unhealthy to a degree, especially when he was younger, not so much as he matured over literally 800 years lol but he still has some hella issues. so like, [gestures to all of him] with how he chose xie lian as. HIS PERSON, and proceeded to revolve his entire personality and life around him is obvi v obsessive, i think its very obsessive compulsive personality disorder, which is slightly different than just ocd, one difference being (besides ocd being an anxiety disorder and ocpd being a personality disorder.) in that with ocpd, you dont really think theres anything wrong with how obsessive or compulsive you are, while with ocd it causes a lot of distress. (i havent been formally diagnosed with ocpd, but i do think i definitely at the very least have tendencies in that direction too. Like with certain things i know what im doing/thinking is irrational and it upsets me, but with others im just like. why cant other people see this the way i do? why cant they just understand why this is important? like I just get so! Angry! all the time! with people or in general when things aren’t how I want them to be. I get so judgemental even when other people cant possibly know how specific my standards are like I know its bad and I know it makes me act like a bitch and im sorry) anyway……….. sorry about the tangent but back to hua cheng. he is never distressed by how much he fixates on xie lian, the only thing that distresses him is his own percieved shortcomings with how he cannot serve xie lian the way he wants to. im not sure im explaining this well but i do definitely think hua cheng has ocpd as well. his fixation on xie lian actively prevents him forming meaningful relationships with other people, and even causes a lot of antagonism between him and others (especially fxmq). he just doesnt think anyone else is worthy of his attention. which is obviously, very unhealthy and kind of sad. (i do like to think he grows out of this a bit like with yin yu and he xuan, even if he doesnt want to admit it. AND YUSHI HUANG, bc i am also a ysh/hc brotp propaganda machine as well, and well because she was the only one that was willing to help xie lian during the war too. gay lesbian solidarity mwah <3)

so this ocpd thing.. i believe it extends to things like how the temple in ghost city, or paradise manor, is set up, he'd be classic perfectionist for the layout of it all, probably gave yin yu a lot of grief over it every single time he changed his mind and decided to burn it to the ground or redecorate it because it didnt seem good enough anymore for the hypothetical day when he can bring xie lian there. i dont like to think hua cheng treated yin yu badly on purpose, i dont like thinking hes cruel to him for the sake of being cruel like ive seen some people imply or outright suggest, i mean yin yu is obviously overworked but i think part of that is just hua cheng is so perfectionist about certain things (how the temples and manors look, how theyre run, anything that can be used for or by xie lian in the future) and he just doesnt see that its become a large burden on yin yu because he thinks this kind of stuff is just the rational thing to do, and that everyone should put as much thought into these things as he does. and if he doesnt feel like he can get things to be set up the way he wants it to be it becomes. catastrophic lol

so thats more of the pure ocpd side, though there is a lot of overlap between ocpd and ocd obvi

one thing about ocd is like. its all about wanting to be in control of every tiny part of your life. like for me when certain things are out of my control it freaks me out so much that it basically disables me. Its why I hate planes so much despite cars being statistically much more dangerous. Because if something happens in a car I at least have some semblance of control over how I can escape the situation. In a plane youre just. Fucked. (sorry to all pilots its nothing personal I think youre braver than I will ever be but its basically impossible for me to trust you (and the engineers and inspectors) with my life like that) anyway, i despise ambiguity of any kind and i hate not knowing things or having concrete answers to any questions or worries i have. like. i couldnt decide on a hypothetical grad school because i was weighing the possibilities down to like, ridiculous perceived probability percentages of how likely a natural disaster were to occur in the area, and how dangerous said natural disasters could be, etc. (well. i didnt have to worry about any of that in the end bc i got rejected from literally every school i applied to LMAO RIP but anyway.) so you get the gist. its all just very irrational, and time consuming, and ridiculous to try to gain control of every single possible path your life can take. AND I HATE IT. that was kinda yet another tangent but, to apply this concept to hua cheng. one thing that i find super funny about him is how he always has his nose in everyones personal business like hes such a fucking gossip girl its hilarious. like jokes aside its obvi helpful as a ghost king to know whats going on in the 3 realms, but i think he takes his info gathering up to 11 like he definitely has these control issues about having to know about everything thats going on at all times, having to be on top of everyones business so he cant be caught off guard by anything. over those 800 years of sending his butterflies out recording things he was primarily looking for xie lian, but hes also just kind of. snooping. lmfao. Because If He Doesnt Know Whats Going On Everywhere He Will Die. (again)

and well. with his butterflies to help him, it does work, i mean. hes always on top of things hes always got a plan, hes always the one that people are going to in the book if theyre in trouble. He seems so put together but the things he cant get information on completely eat him alive sometimes. cant let others know that tho, bc hes Cool(TM), hes Chill(TM). cant let anyone know there are things that, god forbid, hes IGNORANT of. embarrassing. tch.

his hoarding im a little ? about because i dont exactly remember the details of it but i do know he has a ridiculous amount of like trinkets and weapons and magical items and stuff in paradise manor, but i also know he doesnt really care if they get destroyed or not, which is kind of strange but i do what i want and im making him a hoarder bc im somewhat of a hoarder and i love projecting. though now that i think about it. like if i have a big pile of something that i dont want to get rid of, but someone else does it for me without asking or something happens to it like yeah i get angry but sometimes i also just get kind of relieved……….. idk.

so now about intrusive thoughts, i bet he has suuper disturbing ones. Like we  know how he was debating slaughtering those humans on mt tonglu but ended up not because xie lian would have saved them. obviously that was already a stressful unusual situation but like i dont think that kind of thing gets any better even when hes just like. chilling. he gets visions of himself burning ghost city to the ground or attacking humans or destroying his own ashes or otherwise causing harm to others, like yin yu. like he pretends he doesnt care about yin yu and he xuan and stuff but i do think hes fond of them, but he tries to keep his distance because 1) hes dumb and 2) he gets really freaked out by these violent thoughts he has about them. the worst is, when he finally meets xie lian again he gets these thoughts about him too and it takes literally everything he has not to like. throw himself into a volcano, or something.

and its already been established his self image isnt. great. which is a kind way of saying it. he thinks hes worthless and ugly, esp if he does even the slightest thing wrong. I mean I definitely think hes better by the current timeline of the book, but it still reads as a kind of precarious thing to me? Like he wants to be a companion to xie lian instead of just a servant like wu ming, but even after 800 years he still feels this inferiority and disregard for himself u know? If im explaining in an okay way? and body dysmorphia is also something that can be ocd related. OH and i forgot to say this before but ocd/ocpd can also sometimes be a way that ptsd can manifest and id definitely say with all that he was said to have gone through as a child he has ptsd, leading to, well, exacerbated ocd symptoms, among other things. his body dysmorphia is obviously something he internalized (for 800 years!!!) from when he was a child, and i can imagine him absolutely agonizing for centuries over his san lang form, because it was supposed to be his most perfect form, he needed to make it perfect, and he never felt like he could

similarly, for the cleanliness side of ocd that i feel is kind of stereotypical? at least how its portrayed in most media, hua cheng has been show a couple times not wanting to get things (or xie lian) dirty. he was very poor and dirty as a child so now he has the connection of being dirty = being miserable, and this is taken to the extreme when he becomes a supreme bc now hes rich and able to be clean and any dirt or blood on him or something/someone he cares about (’cant let you down the ground is dirty’; shielding the flower, etc) is like. an attack on this power he has now ? iykwim

anyway sorry this is long and rambly. if you actually read it all… respect……. Also ignore those parts where I might get a little too personal :^) like idk if it is but I feel like I might regret some of this in the morning. honks. Anywayyyy as you can see im completely normal about hua cheng im saaaaaauuuuur normal and well adjusted and I just think hes neat oky byeee jumps out my window

#yiling-patriarch-kinnie #hua cheng #ocd tag #asks #tgcf #.txt #cc #anyway a lot of this is copied from other stuff so if anyone sees me repeat things verbatim from another post/chat..... mind ur business <3