#book discourse

[nedlittle]

it drives me bonkers the way people don't know how to read classic books in context anymore. i just read a review of the picture of dorian gray that said "it pains me that the homosexual subtext is just that, a subtext, rather than a fully explored part of the narrative." and now i fully want to put my head through a table. first of all, we are so lucky in the 21st century to have an entire category of books that are able to loudly and lovingly declare their queerness that we've become blind to the idea that queerness can exist in a different language than our contemporary mode of communication. second it IS a fully explored part of the narrative! dorian gray IS a textually queer story, even removed from the context of its writing. it's the story of toxic queer relationships and attraction and dangerous scandals and the intertwining of late 19th century "uranianism" and misogyny. second of all, i'm sorry that oscar wilde didn't include 15k words of graphic gay sex with ao3-style tags in his 1890 novel that was literally used to convict him of indecent behaviour. get well soon, i guess...

#the picture of dorian gray #lit #this is a pointless text post #guess what i read for the first time in the year of our lord 2023 #and yes this is a real review on storygraph that i took a screenshot of. you people are so stupid god bless #girl he literally censored it himself did your edition have 0 introduction or background at all #greatest (s)hits #book discourse

[volunteerfelinedetectives]

After months of staying silent on literary discourse here on Tumblr, I finally have something to contribute.

Fanfiction is not the problem. Fanfic is a free, communal and valid form of writing which, although not always high quality, has yielded some genuinely great stories. The real problem, the reason for ‘booktok books’ and the flaws in modern literature, is fanfic being hijacked by corporations. The minute people try to make money off of it, the minute fanfic and fanfic-style stories lose their meaning. Fanfiction is written on the notes app at 3am for you and 5 friends who share your taste. It is self-indulgent, chaotic, often told through a queer and/or neurodivergent lens, and free from any pressure to be commercially palatable. The minute a few stereotypical fanfiction tropes and ideas are stolen by commercial publishers and twisted into patriarchal, heteronormative versions of themselves with no character depth beyond the romance (a problem that for obvious reasons doesn’t apply to fanfic), that is where the real problem begins.

Thank you for coming to my TED talk

#booktok #text post #essay #fanfic culture #anti intellectualism #book discussion #book discourse #literature discourse #literature #anti booktok

[curseofmxcbeth]

Is looking down on "trashy" novels like a colleen hoover book classist?

I see this comment a lot on tiktok, and I don't think so myself. There are ways to expand your taste and circle as someone with less education, who is not as well read, who is poor, someone who is using a second language or as someone who is young.

Sally Rooney's novels are similarly accessible in terms of price, availability, and they're written in plain english. They're also a "young adult" romance, but cover some more advanced themes like self discovery and provide more meaningful dialogue on relationships and mental health. You do not need to read the western literary canon/classics to be well read or refine your tastes (there are significant class divides and accessibility issues in relation to some of these texts).

There is poetry available free online that contains more advanced literary devices, meaningful content, and food for thought than the wattpad-esque smutty fiction of booktok.

Reading purely for entertainment is still reading. And there is always a place for books that are just entertainment but some texts in terms of complexity, meaningful content, and the art of the writing some texts are above others.

#dark academia #classic literature #booktok #bookblr #colleen hoover #fiction #popular fiction #academia #romantic academia #writing #book discourse #literature

[icedsodapop]

Feel like we need to talk about the racism within bibliophile communities, the obsession with performing the acts of loving to read and loving books, the consumerism that has infiltrated these circles...

#racism #performative #performativity #books #literature #bibliophile #ya fiction #book discourse #bookblr

[theacemenace]

Just to clarify, although I have many criticisms of the direction the genre is taking, I don't think there's anything wrong with consuming it. However, I don't think it's too much to ask adults (at least they should be adults) not to romanticize what they're reading, as has happened in booktook.

#anti booktok #dark romance #bookblr #anti tiktok #book discourse #yes i am sour and mean #someone stop Rina Kent

[tamelee]

fuck booktok fr it literally recommends the same ten books over and over again, mischaracterises or twinkifies half the characters and then act like theyve done no wrong when other book communities hate on them. LIKE BABES YOU LITERALLY TURNED LITERATURE INTO FAST FASHION. capatalism is at an all time high in booktok, with ppl having 200 physical tbr's and five editions of the same book. but if you say anything about it, you hated on for hating???? we really need to go back to libraries, its like ppl have forgotten those exist. anyway that was my small little rant hehe (sorry feel free to ignore)

Oooooh, book-community discourse is a thing? *-* Interesting. I do know they get a lot of backlash from the art-communities because every damn novel has one of three cover-designs and they all look the same nowadays. You can hardly tell the authors apart. Most are made by AI as well -.- (I mean, shouldn’t writers/authors and artists be on the same page about the matter? No? Imagine complaining about your writing being stolen and then using AI for your cover-art… come on now.) 

Feel free to rant always xD I’m actually happy to know I’m not the only one feeling weird about these 10’ish recommendations that you see over and over again. I picked one out that was Goodreads #1 bestseller once (2022, I believe) and seeing people rave about it and giving the monstrosity 5-⭐️ catapulted me to an alternative Universe to rethink my entire life. I don’t think I’ve ever been more confused. (Beautiful prose though, I’ll give it that.) 

((I put book-tok and -tube together because to me it didn’t seem like it’s much different? I don’t really use tiktok, but they all repost their vids and recs through yt-shorts. Not sure if putting the two together pissed someone off then, but please do correct me if I’m wrong.))

Yeeaaahh, you’re right actually. I never really sat down to think about it, but that analogy you made is pretty brilliant. I mean, it’s sad, but a lot do treat books like fast fashion from what I’ve seen. I may not like majority of these ‘trending’ books, but treating a piece of work that way (cheap and trendy) hurts my book-loving heart a little. If ever possible in the future, I’d love to have a library in my home with my favorite books. (Dark academia style of course.) I usually only buy a physical copy if I really liked it after reading the digital version. Unfortunately around here, most libraries have closed :( So I’m afraid you’re right about that as well— people really have forgotten. 

#asktamelee #book discourse #hehe #book talk #Oh! I do realize Goodreads isn't very reliable #but a bestseller should still say something... #it's like they all infiltrated these sites to make a sport out of rating stories

[oh-katsuki]

the way people are trying to like…. cancel authors who are considered to have written literary masterpieces because the subject matter of their book/s is/are not morally correct…… makes me legitimately nauseous.

I’m sorry but…. a protagonist does not have to be morally correct. they don’t have to do good things in order to be the protagonist. sometimes the point is that they do really really bad things. not every novel is a YA fiction novel where the protagonists are fighting for some greater good. sometimes they are just bad people who make bad choices. that’s what makes them compelling.

writing and literature does not have to stick to the realm of what is considered morally acceptable. it never has. in fact, through much of history, literature (and art in general) was used to explore the taboo and the parts of humanity that are unsavory, malicious, and tragic. that’s why we’re meant to analyze novels about those things. it’s never surface level, but with the recent shift in what is essentially anti-intellectualism, we lose a lot of that retribution/condemnation of what’s going on that is delivered through symbolism and word choice and description. that lack of understanding results in grossly misinterpreting a morally reprehensible protagonist as something the author condones when that is rarely the case.

i don’t know… I just see a lot of very ‘hot takes’ about novels that all seem to fall into this vein of “I didn’t understand what I read and instead decided that because what happened is bad, the book is bad” which is…. not how books or storytelling works.

literature is meant to be layered. the author does not have to spell everything out for you or state clearly what the intention of the book is. in fact, the reason some books are so compelling is the round about way some authors go about condemning their protagonists for their actions.

we’re meant to read books as more than just surface layer. we don’t have to, but a lot of authors deliberately intend for us to pick up on word choice, scenery description, color choice, as well as subtle actions / positions of the characters AROUND the protagonist in order to understand what they are saying about what’s going on. the protagonist doesn’t exist in a vacuum, there are other elements surrounding them, and we’re meant to understand that just because they are morally reproachable, doesn’t mean that the author is condoning their actions.

#that’s my take on this #I’ve been thinking a LOT on this #because I like books that tend to fall into peoples category of ‘bad book don’t read’ #since I REALLY enjoy morally reproachable protagonists #i just….. idk it’s worrisome sometimes #what do I tag this with??? #i need to make a tag for when I’m talking like this I think #book discourse #<- that’s what we’re calling it for now idk #does this need a regular discourse tag #it’s not rly discourse I’m just shouting my opinion

[cubistemoji]

Everyone talking about the TikTokification of books and fast fashion of books and all that needs to look up the history of mass market and pulp fiction and sit down

The only new thing here is that the pulp books are pretty hardcovers now instead of disposable

#book discourse

[sabel-thelocal-farmhoe]

All these fanarts of Jude and she’s got the whole ✨Doe-Eyed Gentle Beautiful Perfect Main Character ✨

No

Draw her like she is, a bitch faced girl who’s constantly exhausted and half poisoned, angry and suspicious of everything. She’s not some doe-eyes waif, she’s a girl who has a gleam of crazy in her eyes, and a smirk on her face. She was forged in fire and she looks like it

#the cruel prince #the wicked king #the queen of nothing #tcp #tcp fanart #the folk of the air #CORRECT tcp #jude duarte #jude greenbriar #taryn is doe-eyed #not jude #book meme #book review #books #fandoms #book discourse #incorrect tcp #angry

[somebogwitch]

The concept of "readers' spaces" confuses communities of interest with marginalised communities on booktok and hey stop that.

#books #reading #booktok #book discourse #booktok discourse

[nedlittle]

wow dude do you think oscar wilde may have been gay? should we tell the discord? should we inform rupaul?

#the picture of dorian gray #book discourse #sorry to keep beating this dead horse but i tried looking for the review i referenced in that damnèd post but only found more horrors #i appreciate storygraph's lack of hierarchy for review sorting but it really is a bitch when you're trying to find a review for something #extremely popular with over 17k reviews #'why is rupaul here' i blanked on mainstream gay celebs and he was the first i thought of which makes it funnier

[geekbetweenthelines]

We didn't expect Cressida to become one of our new favorites when we started our read-through podcast, but that's what happened!

Why? Well, going chapter by chapter and sitting with side POVs each week made us realize that she is an amazing example of a true ally. She always takes her cues from Katniss' lead, uses the skills she gained through privilege to work behind the scenes to platform rebel voices, and continually shows up to support rebels and risk her life for a more equitable world.

After reading #THG several times over the years, it's been a joy to finally witness how sensitive, thoughtful, strong, and brave Cressida is.

👉 Listen on your podcast app, via our biolink, or at: https://bit.ly/mockingjay-podcast

🤔 What characters have you come to understand differently over time?

#thg #panem #currentlyreading #thehungergames #hungergames #maytheoddsbeeverinyourfavor #mockingjay #cressida #allyship #natalie dormer #book discussion #book discourse #THG trilogy #character analysis #The Hunger Games #Hunger Games #hunger games post #Hunger Games Podcast #The Hunger Games Podcast #THG Fandom #the hunger games fan #mockingjay part 2 #Suzanne Collins #the capitol #may the odds be ever in your favor #how to be an ally #badass female characters

[appleinducedsleep]

yEEEEES, I managed to finish The Signature of All Things by Elizabeth Gilbert before the year was out, that deserves fireworks:

🎆

Is anyone struggling with that last book? What will your last book of 2023 be?

#booklr #books #bookblog #book community #bookworm struggles #book discourse #i was dragging my feet at the last 30 pages for some reason

[shvkespearc]

horrific hot take , the publishing landscape for lgbt stories currently is FULL (mostly) of sanitized YA Wholesome stories... I really am not seeing lgbt books in a lot of other genres, especially adult? I see a lot more kid lit having lgbt themes, though. really i'm starting to think it's homophobia (obviously) but in the way of sanitizing lgbt shit. like, if you publish lgbt stories its like wow representation<3 but if it's only for kids and teens, those stories obviously aren't going to contain themes like ACTUAL SEX and HARDER PILLS TO SWALLOW-ESQUE topics. so instead we are only receiving a no-kink-at-pride type of lgbt literary experience lately.

where are lgbt stories in the adult genre? besides more well-known titles from several years-decades ago? there are some currently being published, but the amount is SO scant (in comparison with YA lgbt stuff and adult non-lgbt stuff). AND.... those stories are just like... not really receiving much popularity? maybe one or two here and there?

i want flawed gay characters i want gay characters for adults i want hard topics about gay characters i want REAL gay characters! i can't relate to softboy hold-hands gay boys and i can't relate to powerful edgy no-tears lesbians... what is there to read instead but lgbt stories from decades past with tragic endings and suffering? it's almost like one can only be gay if you're sexless, palatable, easy-to-swallow, marketable at old navy, etc. and if you're flawed, sexual, struggling, human... well get ready for the inevitable tragic ending :/ should've thought twice before embarking on your unwholesome villain era.

#messy post i do not care #.txt #books #publishing #book discourse #booktok #lmao

[out-of-the-forest-i-come]

On book piracy

This post is probably going to be a long one, and I hope it reaches people. I’m not here to be aggressive and yell at people who do or don’t condone book piracy. This post is mostly meant to be informational, so please, if book piracy is something that interests you or that you engage in, do bear with me until the end. And if you wish to oppose arguments at the end of this post, you are welcome to do so in a civil manner (I can’t guarantee I’ll answer you because I have a lot of things going on at the moment, but if you are hateful I guarantee you I will not answer you either way). 

As a disclaimer and so you know where I am coming from, I would like to inform you I am not in the publishing industry and have never been, but I am a writer and hope to one day be able to be traditionally published. As such, I have done rather extensive research on publishing and inevitably, on book piracy, how authors are paid, and how piracy affects authors. I obviously don’t know all the details of how the industry works, but I know the rough structure of it (this information is easily available online if you want to check) and I believe it is enough to write this post. I’m also a student and don’t come from a rich family. While I am not poor and don’t have to worry about having a roof on my head or food on my plate, and while I am lucky enough to live in a country where I don’t have to worry about being arrested for the kind of content I consume, I am still not able to buy all the books I want to read. On top of that, I nowadays read almost solely in english, while living in a non-english-speaking country, which means I can’t have access to english books through my local libraries at all. 

That being said, I also want to tell you I used to pirate books. In fact, the last time I downloaded a book illegally was only a few months ago. I have downloaded hundreds of books this way (and, frankly, not read a great deal of them). I started during quarantine (I was in highschool at the time) because I wanted to read books I did not have and that I did not want to pay for them. My parents knew and did not care. My arguments to justify it to myself were that I could not afford to buy all the books I wanted to read, that I could not get them through the local library, that I was only one person and it would hurt no one, and that if I liked the book I would buy it anyway. I can only speak for myself, of course, but out of the books I read illegally and enjoyed, I only bought a few in the end. Because when I could afford to buy books, I chose to buy books I had not already read. 

The argument that I was only one person and would not hurt anyone was wrong. Did authors feel the difference when I stopped? No, because I am only one person and do not control everyone who downloads books illegally. But participating in book piracy, even just by myself, does make a difference, especially for small authors. And also because I did not hesitate to recommend this method of acquiring books to others (again, I can only speak for myself here, but I have seen enough posts on the Internet to know that people who pirate books tend to recommend that others do it too, which in the end has a great impact on the number of people who pirate books). 

The belief that it would not hurt anyone, that piracy has no real consequences because not enough people do it, was also wrong. First of all, because more and more people resort to piracy, and not all of them are poor or live in non-english-speaking countries. A growing number does it because it’s easy and they don’t want to spend money on books. Second of all, because I think we don’t realize how the publishing industry really works. I think a lot of us still have in mind an idealized way of functioning of the industry, or the old way of functioning. And it’s normal, because it’s a complex industry and no one ever bothers explaining to us how it works. 

I only started realizing how hurtful piracy could be when I saw a post about how Maggie Stiefvater’s series Call Down the Hawk was almost cancelled because of book piracy. I was aware, at that point, that small authors could be impacted by piracy because they didn’t have many readers and so needed their readers to actually buy the book or at least access it legally. But I thought it was alright if I pirated books by well-known and successful authors. So when I saw that post, I was shocked.

I did research. I think I had in mind, like many people probably do or did, that successful authors were all millionaires who would not need to work for a single day in their life if they chose to. Who could very comfortably live on the money made from their one successful book series, and that any other book they would publish would also be successful and bring in millions. I basically had in mind J.K. Rowling (sorry for the reference, but at least it gets the point across since she is a billionaire) or Neil Gaiman. But we forget that they published their first books decades ago, and that the industry has changed a lot since. The market is getting more and more competitive, and it is hard even for successful authors to stay afloat. 

I highly recommend, if that’s a topic you’re interested in, that you go and look for authors’ social media. I personally found information notably on Xiran Jay Zhao’s social media (I can’t remember whether I found the most information on their TikTok or Tumblr) but also on Victoria Aveyard’s TikTok. (Whether you like these authors and their books doesn’t really matter for this topic.) I learned through both, and a little through Brandon Sanderson as well, that in this day and age, authors basically need to be influencers if they want their books to sell. Back when Rowling or Gaiman first published their books, it didn’t work like that at all. There was no social media, to start with, but the publishers took care of the marketing if they thought the book would work out.

Now, not so much. For really big books that the publishers are confident are going to work, they do take care of the marketing. That does not mean the author can afford to do no promotion at all and be absent from social media. As Victoria Aveyard reveals, there are actually very few authors today who can afford that and still be able to make a living. She is not even one of them. It may sound shocking; the Red Queen series had massive success, and now Realm Breaker does as well. Aveyard lives comfortably, and doesn’t try to hide it, and she’s very honest about how privileged and lucky she got. But her career could still collapse in a matter of years. She could still need to find another job in a few years. Despite being popular and earning a living as an author now. 

This is, I think because of two factors. The first one is that whatever money authors make is not a consistent income. Authos are often paid in two ways: the advance and, if they manage to outearn that advance, the royalties (outearning means that their books basically need to pay back the advance to the publisher before they can get royalties on the excess of money made). Advances vary from author to author, but I have seen posts that said authors made five-figures advances regularly and that popular authors like Cassandra Clare, Maggie Stiefvater and Victoria Aveyard were all millionaires. The five-figure advance cited was a 10k advance that was allegedly given to authors every year, and the person making that argument said it was more than enough to live on in, especially in Europe. 

Now, I don’t know where exactly that person comes from. I live in Europe, and I guarantee you 10k a year is not enough. 10k a year is uncomfortable at best in most countries because life is expensive. In the US, 10k a year is impossible to live on, from what I know of the US. Another thing I want to say is that this number of 10k is false. Most authors don’t make 10k a year because most authors are not popular enough to. Most authors earn four-figures advances that they will never outearn. Most authors can’t afford to be full-time authors because of that. And for those who do have bigger advances and do outearn them, we still don’t know how much they make exactly. Victoria Aveyard has to keep a consistent presence on social media to make sure her books sell enough to keep living as a full-time author. Xiran Jay Zhao had to delay the release of Heavenly Tyrant because they were not making enough money to afford living as a full-time author and thus could not finish writing it in time for it to be published last August as planned. 

Authors definitely don’t earn as much as you think they do, even popular ones. So imagine how little less popular ones earn. 

Is it the publishers’ fault? Yes, it is. Publishers don’t pay authors and agents and editors what they should, and instead increase CEOs’ salary every year. That’s true. But it’s also true that authors, agents, and editors complain all the time and it changes nothing. Which means author’s salary does depend on the sales they make. 

Another thing that people may not be aware of is that series are only continued and foreign rights only acquired if the publisher thinks it will make enough money to be worth it. Maggie Stiefvater almost could not continue Call Down the Hawk because it did not make enough money. And the problem here was allegedly (I say allegedly because I don’t have actual numbers, but I’m willing to believe it is true) that Call Down the Hawk was highly popular but too many people read it illegally, and thus did not buy it. And while authors do enjoy when their books are popular, publishers don’t care about popularity and the size of a fandom if it doesn’t bring them money.

Publishers aren’t doing this for the love of literature, they’re doing this to make money. They think in terms of money only, and they don’t care if you say you’ll buy the book later. They care about now and about making the maximum profit. It’s unfortunate, but it’s true. And so, if foreign publishers see that a book is popular abroad but highly pirated, they won’t buy foreign rights. Which means, in the end, that if you pirate books because they’re not accessible in your country, it’s a vicious cycle that will never end. 

Now, I can’t tell you what to do. I’m not here to tell you’re a monster for pirating books either. I understand. I used to do it, and I’m trying to do better now, but I know how tempting it is. And it’s easy to find excuses, whether they are valid or not. In the end, it’s up to you. Maybe you think you have valid excuses and I’m not here to analyze whether they are or not. I don’t know your situation. But before finishing this post, I do want to dive a little more in the why we pirate books. 

I think there are two reason, and the first one is that we do not perceive creating art as a real job. As someone who writes, I can tell you it’s a fucking real job alright. It’s not my full-time job but it is time consuming and it takes a lot of work to write a novel. But I think our society (because it is a societal problem, not an individual one) does not perceive that as work. I think we see it as a hobby only, and while it is a passion, it is also a job because it takes so much effort. And because of that, it is only fair to remunerate authors correctly. For any other job, you would agree, I’m sure, that the worker needs to be paid a decent wage. It’s the same when it comes to art. Now, again, does the problem lie within the publishers? Yes, it does. I don’t have numbers, but I’m certain publishers could afford to pay the authors a higher percentage and still make profit. But the problem is also in the sales. Because no matter how much a publisher pays the author, if there are no sales, there will be no salary. And in my opinion, art deserves to be remunerated. 

This is tied to the second reason, which is that we (again, we as a society) feel like we are owed art. Now, is art nice? Yes, I love it in all its forms. Do I think we could survive as a society without art? Absolutely not. Which is why access to culture is very important. But we should not create that access to the author’s detriment. That is not the way to create that access. And even if you don’t think authors should be paid for what they do, I want to remind you that if they can’t be paid, they’ll end up not publishing their books, which means we’ll end up without access to literature either way. But also, we are not entitled to every piece of literature there is, or every piece of art. Free-domain books and libraries exist for a reason, and it’s to promote access to culture. But we are not entitled to having free content that we cannot pay for if not paying harms the author. We are not entitled someone else’s work in exchange for nothing. And I think we as a society tend to think that we are, in fact, entitled to everything we want for free.

Again, I can’t tell you what to do. I won’t tell you you’re immoral or that you’re the reason authors will perish. As I’ve said before, I don’t know your situation, and this debate, like many others, is one that demands some nuance. But I wanted you to be aware of the consequences of book piracy, because we too often think it doesn’t have any substantial consequences. As for the argument that book piracy still promotes a book, I think it might have been true once but it isn’t anymore. Or at least, not in any way that’s helpful, because as I’ve said before, publishers don’t care if a book is popular if they don’t think people are going to buy it. So please, be aware of those consequences the next time you want to download a book illegally. Be aware that authors are not being greedy, that the harm is very much real. Weigh the pros and the cons without thinking only about your personal situation. And then make your choice, without harassing people who will have made a different choice and without taking the moral high ground. 

If you’ve read until here, thank you, I know this was an ungodly long post. If you want to argue or if you have questions, you are welcome to do so in a civil manner and I’ll do my best to respond. But no hate will be condoned.

#books #book piracy #authors #writers #book discourse #book piracy discourse #zlibrary #libgen #free books #out of the forest out of the brain

[theacemenace]

Killing Stalking is not a love story.

This must be the hundredth time I've complained about this but STOP TREATING KILLING STALKING AS BL. It's not a bl about a misunderstood bad boy and a fragile twink. It's a thriller about psychological torture and abuse of all kinds. Sangwo is a STRAIGHT man. He use and weponize Bum love to manipulate him and that's it. It's not enough that the brainless yaoi fans have distorted the work, but the dark romance freaks have joined in! Please tell me if I'm missing something, because I feel stupid, I always thought it was obvious. Honestly, if you don't have the maturity to differentiate between a thriller and a romance or dark romance, maybe you should consider taking a break from consuming media that involves abuse in general.

#killing stalking #anti booktok #dark romance #book discourse #bookblr #lgbtq #manwha #yaoi bl #the fujioshis want to know my location