#because he's midge from vertigo

[rosstrytobe]

Me: *Not be able to study or do anything all week just edits and read fanfction of buddie*

Me this morning: *It's time to study*

Tim minear fb post this morning: "I'm not so sure about that"

#like #what do you mean #we are gettin buck feelings realization #because he's midge from vertigo #scott best friend and secretly still in love with him #???!! #what do you meaaaaaan #this is insane #we are so back #my collage exams are looking at me #with jujdge eyes #my collage life is burning down for them #buddie #911 spoilers #vertigo #tim minear #fb post #911 abc

[simplylupin]

Vertigo and Eddie Diaz

because the connection has been made between eddie's current arc and hitchcock's vertigo, i thought i'd give my two cents on the topic as a mediocre film student whose had to study vertigo for two years of her life

so here's a basic (very over-simplified) summary of vertigo for those who are unfamiliar

The protagonist, Scottie, is a policeman who took a break/was discharged/retired because he couldn't save a fellow police officer from falling off a building to his death

Because of this he suffers from vertigo and/or fear of heights

He's hired by his old friend Gavin to follow Gavin's wife, Madeline, for fear that she's been possessed by someone called Carlotta Valdez

He does so, and slowly falls in love with Madeline - and her him

We also learn that Scottie's best friend Midge is in love with him, but he's too obsessed with Madeline to notice Midge

Him and Madeline go to a church bell tower where Madeline seemingly offs herself by jumping off

Some time later, Scottie goes to Madeline's old hotel room, and finds a woman called Judy who looks exactly like Madeline

She agrees to go on a date with him

We, the audience, find out that Judy actually is Madeline (and vise versa). She was hired by Gavin to pretend to be Madeline.

Scottie grows more and more obsessed, forcing Judy to change her appearance to look like Madeline

He makes the connection that Madeline and Judy are the same person, and drives her to the bell tower

He forces her up the tower, over coming his fear of heights

Once at the top, they have a confrontation

A nun appears, scaring Judy and she once more falls to her death (really this time)

So, from what I've gathered, the loose connection between characters is:

Scottie = Eddie

Madeline = Shannon

Midge = Buck

Judy = Kim

The Nun = Marisol

Scottie's unable to save his fellow police officer. Eddie was unable to 'save' the people he pulled out the helicopter: "I pulled them out. But I didn't save them." Because of this he suffers from immense guilt and PTSD (as seen in his season 5 arc). He's unable to move on and this hinders him to a certain extent - just like Scottie.

After Shannon's death, he's thrown through the loop again, with the added bonus of him not having been able to save her too. Scottie's job was to save Madeline, and he failed at that, resulting in her 'death'.

Eddie is constantly trying to find a woman to fill that role of Shannon in his and Christopher's life; we see this with both Ana and now Marisol. He's looking for her in them. Scottie does the same - he visits the places he went with Madeline, he goes to her old room.

Eddie finds Kim, Scottie finds Judy.

For a little while, Judy helps Scottie get over and get closure on Madeline. She fills that empty space and allows him to move on. This is what I think Kim is going to do for Eddie.

She looks so much like Shannon but she simply isn't her. We know in later episodes that Buck is going to meet her and proclaim that she's "nothing like Shannon." There's a clear distinction there - Eddie is only seeing Shannon in her because he wants to, because he's still holding onto that idea. I think Kim is going to be the closing point of this ongoing search for Shannon's 'replacement'; someone who looks exactly like Shannon should be perfect, right? But when she too doesn't 'fill' that role that surely must spark some sort of realisation in Eddie, because if not her then who.

For Scottie, he feels betrayed by Judy. He brings her to the last place he saw Madeline, and ultimately, indirectly, causes her death. Obviously I don't believe Kim is actually going to die, but more the idea of her. She's the final chapter of him pursuing Shannon's ghost.

Midge is Scottie's best friend. They met in college and were engaged for a few weeks before breaking up. They spend a lot of time together, staying at each other's houses and going out. She helps Scottie through his vertigo and acrophobia, and tries to 'bring him back' in his grief. At one point, Midge paints her face onto a painting of Carlotta Valdez, showing that she's there and ready for Scottie's love, if he's willing to give it to her.

I believe, in this scenario, Buck takes on her role (for seemingly obvious reasons). Him and Eddie are best friends, they do so much together, he helps Eddie when he's struggling etc etc. Midge is the idea of the 'other woman', someone who is right in front of Scottie's eyes, someone whose always been there for him. However, Scottie is too obsessed and fixated on Madeline that he can't see this and continually brushes it away. You see where I'm going here...

Although Buck potentially doesn't even realize it himself, he has taken on Shannon's role in the Diaz family for years. Eddie already has the 'replacement' for Shannon that he's so desperately been searching for right in front of his eyes.

In Vertigo, Judy and Madeline are the same person, whereas Shannon and Kim are obviously not. However, the comparison still stands.

Scottie meets Judy and immedietely latches onto her because she looks so much like Madeline (duh) and he is so desperate for anything that'll keep Madeline's memory with him. He makes her undergo a series of phsyical changes (dyeing her hair, changing her wardrobe, her style etc etc) so that she appears more like Madeline - so he can get that closure and pretend.

Eddie clearly isn't going to do this to Kim. However, whatever way you spin it, he is projecting Shannon onto her. He saw her, and thought of Shannon, he pursued her because of that, he's doing all this because of Shannon. He is chasing that closure and that moment were he can be like 'Ah. I've finally found someone who can be Shannon for me and Chris.'

I doubt Kim is going to be around particularly long. As much as it sounds diminishing, she really is just a tool for Eddie to have this realization that nobody can replace Shannon, and that that's okay. He doesn't need to find Shannon 2.0.

Now, in Vertigo, when Scottie and Judy are arguing on the bell tower, a nun appears from the shadows and startles them - causing Judy to fall to her death. It's a very abrupt and out of nowhere.

The character of the nun, I think could represent either one of two things. Marisol, as we know, used to be a nun (i'm still not over this btw). That's a pretty straight-forward, clear cut comparison. The nun causes Judy to die, Marisol causes 'Shannon', and the idea of Shannon, to 'die'. This interpretation leans more heavily on Marisol and Eddie staying together, however, so I'm not sure.

The nun could also just represent religion as a whole, and Eddie's Catholic guilt particularly. Eddie tells Bobby that he only really married Shannon because he felt like he had to, he felt pressured into it because of his religious guilt. Despite this, "There was still a part of me that loved being married to her."

There's no doubt in my mind that Eddie loved Shannon. He did, they loved each other, and he still does love her - he always will. I do think that the choice of focussing on his marriage to her and how he "loved being married to her" is interesting though, he doesn't try to clarify that he was in love with her. This could just be because it's a given orrr

Whatever, not really the point.

The point is, the fact he's now "awakened" his Catholic guilt by finding out Marisol was a nun, must mean something for his upcoming arc. In Vertigo, the nun kills Judy. Here, his religious guilt 'kills' the idea of Shannon??

I'll definitely have more ideas about this later but this was my word vomit for now! Let me know what you think please.

(Also something I find funny is that the actress of Madeline/Judy is called Kim!)

#eddie diaz #shannon diaz #911 abc #911 spoilers #911 on abc #911 season 7 #911 season 7 episode 7 #buddie #evan buckley #eddie and marisol #eddie and buck #eddie and shannon #911 textpost #911 analysis

[buddiebitch]

WHY are BT shippers so vehemently against actually analyzing the symbolism and choices made for this show?

i mean i saw multiple people saying we were overthinking the vertigo poster. they were saying that it was weird to assume that Buck would fill the pining best friend role that Midge did in the original movie??? (haven’t seen the movie, i just read a few synopses)

i’m sorry, so you agree that he put Ryan Guzman in the main character and Devin Kelley as the love interest because they’ll fill those roles in the storyline, but we’re overthinking when we point out what role he put Oliver Stark in?

or when i bring up the possible symbolism of Tommy always calling him Evan, the only response i get from BT stans is “well he would tell him if he didn’t like it” or “i think it’s because he was introduced that way and that’s why” or even “i think he probably likes that Tommy calls him Evan” (all real responses i saw) and it’s like, yeah that’s cool, those are great headcanons for you, but that actually isn’t what i was talking about. nothing wrong with having a headcanon, but it doesn’t explain anything about the show or answer any of my questions.

i mean in s4 he corrected his PARENTS and told them his name was Buck, and in s6 it was used to emphasize the strangeness of his coma dream, how everyone was calling him Evan, the whole show him being called Evan has almost always been used to emphasize that someone doesn’t know him very well, how are y’all convinced that it’ll mean something different this time? i get that some people think it’s supposed to be growth, that he’s cool with being called his first name, but if that’s the goal it definitely isn’t reading that way to me.

like i wish i could see things through the same lens as these people so it could make sense to me, i just don’t get how you can willfully ignore SO many hints just so you can ship what you want.

no hate to the ship or the shippers obviously, i’m just baffled by the lengths they’ll go to in order to convince themselves that plot device man is endgame for Buck.

#buddie #i know now that i’m not allowed to tag this bucktommy #i still feel like i should but i know they’ll get mad at me #911 #911 on abc #evan buckley #eddie diaz #tommy kinard #and like it’s fine to ship what you want but why do you have to try and convince everyone it’s endgame? #like just ship it and be happy you get content #you actually don’t have to convince us to ship it as well #you don’t have to try and stop buddie fans from shipping what we want #you are actually allowed to ship what you want without trying to discredit everyone’s theories #plus like even if i’m wrong theories are still fun #even if the show turns out nothing like i’m predicting it will(it most definitely won’t turn out like my predictions) #i still had fun speculating #even if it is all over analyzed (it probably is) it’s still fun #also didn’t tim minear say this season would parallel s4? #in s4 it was HEAVILY emphasized in buck begins that his parents calling him Evan made him uncomfortable #if this season really does parallel s4 (not seeing it yet but idk) then that choice HAS to be intentional

[frenchonionsunchips]

i have never been so convinced that we are gonna get a buddie feelings reveal/realization (probably from buck), and yes it’s because of the vertigo poster.

if y’all are like me and have never seen vertigo before, i did a lil deep dive into it and here’s what i found and how it relates to the vertigo poster that tim dropped.

so in vertigo, scottie (eddie) basically falls in love with this woman madeleine (shannon) who ends up dying right in front of him. while he’s ‘recovering’ from her death, he meets judy (kim), who looks exactly like madeleine and he basically tries to force judy to become her.

however this is not the important part of the whole vertigo thing, that’s just pointing out how similar this eddie storyline already is to the movie.

the important thing is the poster (which @911bts has posted). on the bottom, it has a bunch of names, which for the most part are all names of people who worked on the original vertigo movie. except one. barbara bel geddes is switched to oliver stark which is sooooo significant, specifically because it was so unnecessary (it could have easily been switched to edy or just not been switched at all). this is so significant because barbara bel geddes played midge, scottie’s ex-fiancee who still has feelings for him. midge is the character who is always there for scottie, always tries to do what’s best for him, and is trying to make him fall in love with her again. in my opinion, midge also represents a type of love that scottie isn’t necessarily ready for. in the movie that love is a more mature settled down type of love, however i do think its can easily be translated into eddie not being ready at this moment in the show to love another man.

also here are a couple little screenshots from some analyses about midge that i think are just a little too similar to the eddie storyline right now

so anyways buck pining era is cominggggg

#also the woman who played madeleine/judy was kim novak #idk if tim made new shannon’s name kim on purpose but i thought that was interesting #911 #911 abc #buddie #eddie diaz #edmundo diaz #evan buckley #shannon diaz #911 kim #tim minear #vertigo #911 spoilers #911 abc spoilers

[buckttommy]

i'm curious about your thoughts on the whole vertigo/eddie/buddie theories floating around. if you'd like to dm that's fine too! but i'm more of an outsider looking in, although i do like buddie and bucktommy equally :D

Hi Jag! I don't mind!

My perspective is that Tim was inspired by Vertigo. That's it. He was inspired by a cool movie, just like he was inspired by a cool movie with The Poseidon Adventure. Just like In Another Life (6x11) was inspired by It's A Wonderful Life (?). This is not new. 9-1-1 has always taken inspiration from and paid homage to classics. I think people are reading too much into this because, from where I'm standing, the only parallel that can be concretely drawn to the text is "Eddie sees his dead wife in a woman that is, quite literally, nothing like her and he's unwell and obsessive about it."

That's it.

I, personally, don't see any explicit, soon to be textual, "Buddie" connections. I don't think Buck being "cast" as Midge means anything except a little wink nod to Buddie as a concept. I don't even think it was done maliciously tbh. I've already said I don't think anything explicitly romantic with Buddie is happening until 8B at the earliest. So. This is not a particular brand of speculating or clowning that I enjoy and it really feels like the more naive, new, or inexperienced members of the fandom are setting themselves up for frustration and disappointment.

I am not one to rain on anyone's parade and I love to see people have fun, but this is not a theory I am willing to put much weight in!

#jack answers mail #tv: 911

[bucksdaffy]

can i ask about your thoughts about this vertigo-esque storyline with eddie and what do you think buck's role in this?

oh boy, this is a long one. i'm sorry in advance.

i'll be honest, i haven't watched that movie so i don't feel too confident speaking on this, but i'm not really worried.

from what i have gathered, it's a story about a retired detective, scottie, who is hired to follow the wife of his acquaintance, madeleine, and he becomes increasingly obsessed with her. he learns that she visits a grave of her grandmother, who committed s**c*de, and he is worried she is possessed by her ghost. he then rescues her when she attempts to jump from a bridge. they spend some time together, and then at some point she runs up the bell tower, and scottie can't follow her because he has a fear of heights, so he essentially watches her plunge to her death, and as a result, he spirals into depression.

so, up until this point, the only common theme between this story and eddie's is that the women they are in love with die, and both of them have a hard time dealing with it. i don't think there is anything else, but if someone who actually watched the movie wishes to correct me, please do.

later, scottie encounters a woman named judy who bears a striking resemblance to madeleine, and he becomes obsessed with transforming her into the image of his lost love because he is convinced that will allow him to overcome his grief.

so, this is basically what we see happening with eddie right now. he meets kim, and he is so struck by her resemblance to shannon he can't help himself but think he can rebuild with her what he had with shannon. so, he makes some questionable choices by telling her he's single, going on a date with her, and lying about it not only to marisol but also to buck and chris. we obviously haven't seen him trying to transform kim into shannon (i think at this moment he is only fascinated by her), but it is possible he is going to attempt to do so. maybe not in the same way scottie does, but perhaps in a more subtle way. he has looked for shannon in every relationship he has had so far. and now that he met her lookalike, he thinks that god gave him a second chance, and he doesn't want to waste it.

then, scottie learns that the acquaintance who originally hired him to follow madeleine actually orchestrated the whole thing. madeleine was never madeleine – she was judy. she was hired to impersonate his acquaintance's wife. they took advantage of scottie's fear of heights because they knew he wouldn't follow madeleine up the bell tower, and then the acquaintance killed his real wife (and she was the body that was thought to be madeleine/judy). madeleine/judy was never dead. scottie takes judy to the bell tower and confronts her about it. he overcomes his fear of heights so they are together on top now. at some point, a nun appears to investigate the noise and surprises judy, causing her to fall off the bell tower.

now we don't know yet what they are going to do with eddie and kim, but i don't think any of that is going to happen. we have to keep in mind those are two different stories. yes, they do share some common themes, but at their core, they are vastly different. i don't want to speculate about the outcome of it much because 911 always manages to surprise me, so i'll just leave it there.

but now on to the real question of this ask – what's buck's role in it? i suppose you have seen buddie shippers screaming from the rooftops that this is basically a confirmation that buddie will go canon because oliver/buck is mentioned on the poster as well (in a place where there originally is the name of the actress that plays midge, a character who is scottie's friend and who is in love with him). so, i guess everyone thinks there is going to be some kind of feelings realization (god do i hate this phrase) moment on buck's part and whatnot. SIGH.

well, first of all, i want to point out that midge's feelings are one-sided. and from what i've heard she does move on in the end. she and scottie do not end up together.

and second of all, i have said it already, but those are two completely different stories. the only common denominator is that in both cases, a male character becomes infatuated with a female character who eventually dies, and later on, they encounter their lookalike. for buck to be midge, there would have to be some already established romantic feelings for eddie on buck's part, and there simply aren't any. not in canon anyway. i don't think this is the time or place for "feelings realization".

i think buck is mentioned simply because he will be present in this arc, but certainly not in the way midge was. i think his role in it will be actually more important than that.

we know that he and kim do have a scene together. so i assume he's going to find out about eddie's shenanigans one way or another. i doubt eddie will tell him voluntarily, so i'm guessing he's going to run in on them somehow. and i don't think he's going to be happy. well, first of all, i think he's going to be confused. because what do you mean you're here with a woman who resembles your dead wife? but once he realizes what's going on, he's going to get a little angry. both for marisol, because this is NOT how you treat a woman you supposedly love (or any woman for that matter), and for himself, because eddie lied to him. and for chris, of course, don't get me started on that! one thing i'm pretty certain about is that he will be disappointed with him.

perhaps they'll also touch more on this honesty issue, actually. we all know buck is a pretty open and straightforward person, whereas eddie likes to keep things to himself unless he's directly asked about them. so, how this lie affects their friendship would definitely be very interesting to see.

either way, i think their bond will be a bit severed as a result of that. i don't think buck's going to support what eddie's doing and will call him out on it instead (will eddie fight back? that is quite possible, yes. and because of that they might take a longer time to patch things up). but they will make up eventually. if that's going to be this season or next, only time will tell. i also don't think buck will completely turn his back on eddie. he still has to work with him, and i think he's going to see him struggle, which will for sure hurt him inside. he might not support what he's doing, but he still cares about him after all. that's his best friend.

also, this is not really what i think will happen, but what i really hope to see – buck leaning on tommy throughout all of this, especially if it continues into the next episodes or even season 8. i think that would be a great way to kind of solidify their relationship. and if it continues into season 8 (which i doubt, but who knows?) i'd LOVE if tommy was encouraging buck to patch things up with eddie and perhaps encouraging eddie to patch things up with buck as well. i think that would introduce a great dynamic between all three of them.

#anon 🫶🏼 #idk if i'm right but that's how i see it #you won't catch me giving in to the idea of romantic buddie that easily #911 speculation #911 abc #evan buckley #eddie diaz #bucktommy

[1doesnotsimplyhavejust1fandam]

So what I’m getting from Tim posting a 9-1-1!Vertigo movie poster and including Buck, not Marisol, in what is presumably Midge’s role, is that there didn’t necessarily need to be cheating for this arc to work. Please correct me if I’m wrong.

I love a good dramatic arc and Vertigo is a banger choice for Eddie’s Catholic guilt and Shannon grief arc, but as far as I know (yes, in my hour of Wikipedia and Twitter deep-diving), that movie doesn’t actually contain cheating, so I’m curious if there’s a reason for it other than drama or not making a carbon copy 9-1-1 version of Vertigo. Is it to make the audience start to dislike Eddie like the Vertigo audience is meant to slowly dislike Scottie, as he continues to make bad choices? Is it to encourage the GA to see Buddie with Buck as the pining Midge? Desperately want reassurance that Tim realizes by making Buck a part of this storyline (especially as Midge), there is no feasible way to dismiss that. Even if Buck’s feelings aren’t explicitly addressed, that poster and any potential on-screen pining aren’t going to be swept away. Season 7 paralleling season 4 regarding Buddie and it’s because The Will and the Vertigo Arc won’t be ignored by the fandom. We’re all gonna go a little crazy methinks, and I can’t wait.

#yes i’m still on this #I’m rarely this annoying about character choices #but cheating in this storyline is an odd choice #tim minear #I want to crack open your mind and read it like an ancient scroll #what are we meant to glean from your characters by this storyline? #why keep Marisol around when Eddie clearly now has a different mother figure stand in for Shannon? #eddie diaz #Eddie I’m just as confused as you right now #evan buckley #vertigo #vertigo on 911 #buddie #Scottie vertigo #midge vertigo #you’re closing on buddie? #you’re closing on buddie and Tim is out here writing AUs of them into his own damn show??? #top gun vertigo #Eddie Diaz’s will #the will scene #marisol nolastname #911 #9-1-1 #911 abc #9-1-1 abc #911 spoilers

[jesuisici33]

Buck as Midge

okay so we get that Eddie is Johnny/Scottie and Kim is Judy in 911's version of Vertigo, and now with the poster shared on Tim Minear's FB, we now know that Buck is Midge. Midge, like a lot of people quickly figured out, was Scottie's ex-fiancee who is still harboring feelings for Scottie in the movie and has hopes that he will come around and see that she's the one for him. (which does not happen.) so let's focus on exactly how Buck fits in this version of Vertigo on 911.

so first of all, Buck is with Tommy. and with how positively that's been received, I highly doubt they're going to break up at the end of the season with Buck realizing he's in love with Eddie while Eddie is in the middle of a cheating arc. what I do think is going to happen is that Buck is going to act like Midge in that he's, like what he's been always like on the show, Eddie's confidant and ride or die. The person Eddie goes to when he's in trouble and the one that shows up when Eddie needs help, only to be pushed away because Eddie feels like no one can help him. just like Scottie does to Midge. (scene showing that here)

and Ryan said at the end of the season, Eddie is going to feel isolated from everyone. Which parallel's Scottie's isolation in the movie. Both when he's in the psych ward, ignoring/pushing away Midge, and also at the end of the movie when he's left standing on the edge of the bell tower shocked at Judy's death. so I'm guessing Eddie is going to be in his metaphorical psych ward/ledge of a belltower, standing in his mess with no one to help him because he pushed everyone, including Buck away.

#i know people narrowed in on the ex-fiancée part #but i doubt it’s going to be a straight on parallel #that would be too on the nose #and also out of character for buck imo #but buck and midge are both always there for eddie and scottie #and that’s the most important parallel #911 #911 spoilers #eddie diaz #evan buckley #buck buckley #vertigo

[headless-horsegirl]

there's an alternate ending to Vertigo where Midge does not disappear, she stays by his side and they get drinks together at the end of the movie, showing that even after all that happened she won't abandon him.

as far as i remember hitchcock did not want to have that tag ending (see Vertigo: The making of a Hitchcock classic by Dan Auiler, p.130, very interesting read) and only included it in the filming process cause some higher up wanted it, he ultimately (in the us) released his version. it would be a cool parallel to now have that be included (buck stays by eddie, from what they said about eddie feeling like he has nobody to run to this seems unlikely but what do i know, could be eddie just running from everyone but in reality buck is still there by his side) because initially the higher ups at fox were against buddie and now the vision of tim gets fulfilled. would be a fun parallel and i am excited to see where this goes

#ask and i shall answer #so we are either gonna read this whole poster thing as buck being perfect for eddie and pining (now and or later) #or we are gonna read it as buck staying by eddies side even after he goes crazy #or we are gonna read it as buck trying to fix eddie and ultimately walking away from him because he cannot help him #or we are gonna read it as buck delivering an emotional shock to get eddie out of his situation #no matter how that might go #i mean #i think we all know what the ultimate emotional shock would be #but i dont think they will go there #i am so excited to see how this goes #buddie #911 abc #eddie diaz #evan buckley #vertigo

[likegoldintheair]

They're really going the vertigo route with Kim being an actress and Marisol being a nun! Question is if Buck becomes Midge the best friend/ex fiancé or if Eddie snaps out of it because of Chris.

they are for sure taking inspiration from it! i'm wondering if whatever conversation christopher and eddie have in those stills has nothing to do with kim, but something completely different, but will still have some effect on eddie and possibly send him further into this spiral of delusion. buck does meet kim at some point, and he will most definitely have opinions about that (even if he doesn't actually say anything right there and then, he'll definitely be confused about it and wonder what's going on with eddie). either way, i can't wait to see it all unfold!

#brevlådan #eddie diaz #911 spoilers

[iwantasquaresbar]

Really digging into all the vertigo analysis and comparisons has like made me so unbelievably excited for the rest of this season and next season. I’m so excited for Eddie’s journey and yes it’s going to be painful and I know I’m going to get so angry at him but in the end it’s probably going to be so fulfilling.

Obviously Eddie is taking on the role of Scottie, this perfect man, upstanding great detective. Who fall for a woman Madeline (Shannon) who dies falling from a church tower, Scottie never reaching the top because of his trauma, he’s overcome with grief. His best friend Midge (Buck) tries to be there for him and console him but has no luck, Midge is perfect for Scottie knows him so well, and loves him, we as the audience know she’s perfect for him but he pushes her away in pursuit of another woman Judy (Kim) who is identical to Madeline. He stalks her and tries to turn her in to Madeline, Judy adores him and changes to be more like Madeline. He then ends up chasing Judy up the same Church tower Madeline fell to her death but this time he makes it to the top with her overcoming his trauma. He realises he doesn’t want to be with Judy then Judy falls to her death after being scared by a Nun (Marisol).

It’s a strange movie but it weirdly fits there are was better analysis made by smarter people. I am very excited however to see how this all plays out on the show because it will obviously be adapted differently.

#i love being delusional #I don’t really think we will get a oh moment from Buck but speculating is fun #911 on abc #eddie diaz #buddie #evan buckley #evan buck buckely #911 speculation #vertigo

[thehumantrampoline]

Vertigo actually sucked so bad I gotta make a vent post about it. If you love Vertigo and wanna get mad please don't hate read this, but if you love Vertigo and wanna discuss it in earnest I'm not gonna flame you lmao.

Like after I finished it I immediately looked up critical reviews about why it's a classic because I was so baffled I wanted someone to explain it to me. People talked about the cinematography (fair) the score (true) and the acting (deserved) and then the tiny little juicy nugget of the big twist, which I think is one of those mind benders that sticks in your brain and that's 100% understandable.

But the film didn't earn the twist!!! It was clunkily delivered and I can't see any foreshadowing in retrospect. There was about a third of a good movie in the last act but I wasn't any richer for watching the first two thirds.

Because it wasn't Scottie's story!!! He's not interesting, he's not dynamic, he's an observer, and an absolute shit one. It was Judy's story, Judy was always the most interesting character, and yet the majority of the movie is this echoing boring hollow where his inner life is supposed to go. And it doesn't feel intentional, it feels like I'm supposed to be compelled by his search for meaning and I'm fucking not. I'm compelled by Judy and the narrative is fucking not.

I think Hitchcock wrote complex women by accident by writing complex plots and putting women in them. I don't think there's any intentional motive written into Judy except suddenly and inexplicably falling in love with this non-person, but holy shit the feminist narrative buried in Judy written and written over by men until there's nothing left, of Madeleine wherever she was and what led to her end, of Midge and her art and her stupid pointless torch and unceremonious exit from the story, even of long dead Carlotta, a toy put away in a toy box for a man to play with when he wanted until he got tired of her. Like it's all THERE but it's almost entirely unexplored while I'm supposed to worry about this Fuckin Cop.

As a pissy little side note did you really name the movie after a plot point that didn't seem to have any clear thematic resonance

#script was bad. disjointed and felt made up as it went along #it was a whole movie to get to a twist. first Hitchcock movie to ever disappoint me so thats something I guess #original posts

[shaunashipman]

What do you make of the whole "Vertigo movie poster edit that Tim Minear posted with Oliver Stark as Midge" thing that has buddie-stans believing Tim's hinting at canon Buddie?

srsly, this is what i wake up to? (not directed at you nonny)

i think this is people once again ignoring anything that doesn't fit their view. eddie and shannon/kim are clearly not a one-for-one copy of scottie and madeleine/judy. for starters the relationship between eddie and shannon is completely different what with them being the married ones, so the feelings involved are coming from a different place. and also, you know, i don't think kim is gonna die at the end.

but they think buck is gonna be a direct stand-in for midge regarding his feelings. ignoring that, outside of an alternate ending that the TPTB demanded that wasn't shown and that hitchcock didn't like, midge disappears halfway through and her and scottie don't end up together. i've already talked about how deleted scenes aren't canon, and i think we can agree that a deleted ending that was only filmed to satisfy the hays code and that the directer is on record as not liking and wasn't actually discovered until 1993, is definitely not canon. so that would actually mean that buck is going to disappear halfway through this arc and eddie is going to have to deal with his fear/grief himself, which hey, kind of fits with ryan saying eddie was going to be isolated, doesn't it? funny huh

so, buck is probably going to be in the midge role, as the one who expresses worry about eddie/scottie's behaviour and tries to help him, not in terms of feelings for eddie/scottie. because like i said, this isn't a recreation of virtigo, it's using the elements of vertigo to address similar themes

oliver and tim have talked about not wanting to go the route of "this character is now queer and in love with their best friend" and you want him to be pining for his heterosexual best friend while said friend is stringing along two women in a mental spiral?

as for tim putting buck's name there, idk, it's the only other name that stands out on the poster so he wanted to change it, there is no gavin elster stand-in and people either don't know who edy ganem are or they do know who she is and don't like her, so he used buck as the only other person who's gonna be playing a role in this, which we already knew from interviews

oh, yeah, and tim minear is a little shit goblin.

#cleo gets mail #anonymous #911 #911 critical #anti buddie #i can't believe y'all made me do an analysis of a fucking hitchcock film #not that it was much analysis i mean it's not that fucking deep

[sleepymarmot]

Vertigo (1958)

[Watched on August 28th]

Please enjoy a liveblog of me watching this classic completely blind and having An Experience. (But only if you’ve seen it yourself, because this is one of the films that work much better when you know nothing in advance.)

Liveblog

The first scene between the man and the woman was the height of “as you know”. They just talk and talk in exposition while I spend several minutes trying to figure out whether they’re a couple or father and daughter.

I decided to watch this film right now because I know it was brought up in Laura Mulvey’s article about male gaze and wanted to read it without getting spoiled, and I don’t know what exactly she said about it, but I immediately noticed how the man is filmed “objectively” but the woman is shown through his eyes, following his line of sight.

Glad I know nothing about the plot because I’m genuinely intrigued.

Has she really not noticed an extremely obvious trail even once?

Oh my god I misread the dates on the headstone as the 20th century instead of the 19th and kept thinking Carlotta died just before the events of the movie. Well, this makes more sense now!

Really pretty shots with the Golden Gate Bridge.

My late grandmother must have looked a lot like the main character when she was young… They were probably born around the same time, she wears her hair in a similar way to what I remember...

Bro I know she’s the other main character and the two of you are probably going to have at least some romantic tension, but why are you grabbing her hand like that, she’s married to your friend…

I am hoping more and more that we’ll get a recap of the entire film from her POV at some point. Like her hiding in the hotel room when he came in to check, or listening in to his conversation with her husband on the phone.

This black-and-white outfit slaps

I’m glad I know nothing about this movie because I genuinely have no idea whether it’s going to be supernatural or not

I didn’t expect her to die so soon. There’s 45 minutes left! So what now? Has the husband been driving her mad to take possession of the inheritance? Is the film going to be about him from now on?

Damn, the effects in this dream sequence did NOT age well

I like how the film draw attention to the 50s pretty women looking indistinguishable. I kept wondering whether Midge and Madeleine were played by the same actress!

Huh, I suspected that she threw a fake body, but didn’t think she wasn’t alone!

Oh, so the dead body wasn’t fake, the living one was.

The film really shifted POVs, and not in a way I expected. Now we know what she’s thinking but have no idea what the fuck he is.

Oh I bet there’s class commentary on this too. I can see where the gender commentary is. I thought the perfect alluring image of upper class white femininity, mysterious and vulnerable, was just a patriarchal cinema convention, but it’s actually constructed even within the fictional universe! What a pity, to know that a man does not want a real you, only a mirage designed to be as stereotypically attractive as possible. “If I let you change me, will that do it? If I do what you tell me, will you love me?” “Yes. Yes.” “All right. All right, then, I’ll do it. I don’t care anymore about me.”

Either he has figured it out and is trying to set up a trap for the murdering husband, or he’s oblivious and poor Judy needs to grab her IDs and run far far away asap

Like, I have to be fair to the dude. From his perspective, he found a woman who is somehow an exact copy of an innocent who’s been murdered by a ghost. He’s living in a fairytale now, as far as he’s concerned she might as well be some magical changeling and if he believes enough he can bring his beloved back or something.

It’s amazing how makeup can change a face — she’s a great beauty as Madeleine and barely noticeable in Judy’s garish facepaint

Oh no is he going to push her into the bay now

“One final thing I have to do.” Nooo motherfucker

“And then, I’ll be free of the past.” Noooo

Oh he’s not pushing her into the water, he’s pushing her off the top floor

Can she push him off instead? Please Mr Hitchcock

Noo why did she kill herself at the last second??

What? That’s the end? He didn’t even jump after her?

Well this was a great movie until literally the last minute. RIP

Why are women so in love with this below average guy anyway???

Rating: between 8 and 9, I think.

[End of liveblog]

Full disclosure: I am publishing this “review” months after watching the film itself, because after reading Mulvey’s “Visual Pleasure and Narrative Cinema” I fell into a research rabbit hole, got my hands onto a bunch of academic writing on the film, and didn’t want to post my thoughts on the film until I went through it all, in case my future self wanted to make this movie review double as literature review.

I read “Visual Pleasure and Narrative Cinema” immediately after watching the film (fighting for my life throughout the psychoanalytical sections, and skipping the paragraphs about the films I haven’t seen yet). Turns out, the analysis of Vertigo takes up only two and a half paragraphs, but it spoils everything so I’m glad I watched the film first. These paragraphs are, of course, quite insightful, except for one weird part where the author describes Judy’s acquiescence to Scottie’s demands as “exhibitionism” and “masochism”. I hope these words had very different connotations half a century ago, because this sounds like downright victim-blaming to me. The current day meaning of these words would imply that Judy enjoyed what was happening, and she made it very clear that she didn’t.

Another essay, “‘The look,’ narrativity, and the female spectator in Vertigo”, written by Karen Hollinger more than a decade later, is a more thorough analysis of this film alone that takes into account the shifts in POV I mentioned in the liveblog above, but to my disappointment, it also describes Judy’s attempts to mollify Scottie as “masochistic”. For the sake of my own sanity, I’m going to assume that word really meant something else in old academic writing.

“The Critic as Consumer: Film Study in the University, Vertigo, and the Film Canon” by Virginia Wright Wexman is a much more grounded essay: it does away with psychoanalysis and talks about the film in the context of its production, which was pretty informative, as well as provides the class commentary I wished for in the liveblog. It was enjoyable to read an analysis based on the material realities of the world that actually exist, and not on someone’s fever dreams. This might be my first dive into this corner of academia, and I was unpleasantly surprised to see people spend so much effort on a methodology that seemed so obviously inadequate to me.

I went through 5+ more articles in addition to the ones I named above, but that reading had diminishing returns. The more I read, the more familiar with the material I became, and the less interesting it was to read other people’s analysis, especially because I kept disagreeing with it. Broadening my horizons in this way was pretty fun and I don’t exactly regret it, but the process wasn’t a great use of my time and energy, and actively demotivated me from watching more films because after months and months I still wasn’t done with this one.

Here’s something I learned from one of the articles: there doesn’t seem to be a singular canonical explanation for whether Judy fell accidentally or jumped to her death on purpose. The initial screenplay, which I found online, indicates it was an accident; Kim Novak herself said in an interview that it was suicide. Not only did Hitchcock not show what happened, he didn’t seem to bother to either inform the actress of his interpretation or come up with one at all. That's how little he, and therefore the film itself, cared about the main female character. Nothing matters but the man and his trauma. Scottie’s storyline is concluded poetically regardless of the reason why Judy falls, but Judy’s own storyline is literally dropped as if it was never there.

#vertigo #liveblogs and reviews #blah blah blah #last day to post all the reviews i've been accumulating throughout the year!

[singitforthegirls]

Okay, haven’t watched ep yet or anything. And it’s 4:32 here and I woke up and just had to check shit online.

BUT from what I’ve read Buck is like legit 100% Midge in this Vertigo scenario. Just saying. What with him saying he’s worried about him and all that. Pretty sure Midge said something like that to Scottie too.

And like her apartment or work studio was tiny and kinda open plan so some of it happened in a kitchen to. Lol

I recently watched that movie lol and he’s so Midge. The worried (still in love with him) friend.

Sure, obviously in that movie they don’t end up together (and Scottie is kinda a dick) and even the cut end scene is very vague about if they end up together. But Midge def still loved him and wanted him back. She just didn’t totally commit to it maybe because she was still scared of it.

Also still thinking about how Midge and Scottie were engaged for a few weeks in college or something and she broke it off after a bit, but they stayed friends and she obviously still had feelings. Hmm. But that’s probably irrelevant. Lol

#911 speculation #vertigo #911 spoilers #maybe

[filmista]

Vertigo (1958)

“Here I was born, and there I died. It was only a moment for you; you took no notice.”

Alfred Hitchcock was generally a no-nonsense man who, when interviewed about his work, kept on talking about plot and audience manipulation: how do I keep the audience in suspense with a good story? Intellectual, thematic discussions of his own work were largely foreign to him, but of course that doesn’t mean that those themes were not there. 

Fear of the irrational, a perverted sexuality and obsessive thoughts were just a few of his hobbyhorses, which, consciously or otherwise, popped up again and again. And that may never have been more the case than in "Vertigo," his most personal and complex film.

At the time, the film didn’t receive good reviews and the public wasn’t interested either, but over the years its reputation grew, until it was routinely included in lists of the greatest films of all time. Most Hitchcock films show the director as a professional. "Vertigo" shows him as an artist.

James Stewart plays John "Scottie" Ferguson, a  police inspector who sees a colleague jump off a rooftop. Physically injured and mentally traumatised he decides to say goodbye to old job, only to be hired as a private investigator shortly after by his old school friend Gavin Elster (Tom Helmore). Gavin's wife Madeleine’s (the unforgettable Kim Novak) behaviour becomes increasingly absent,  she makes long journeys through the city and speaks increasingly about death and suicide. 

Scottie starts to follow here and slowly but surely he discovers that Madeleine believes she is possessed by the ghost of Carlotta Valdes, a woman who died tragically many years before. He also discovers that he fell in love, perhaps for the first time. Scottie becomes dangerously obsessed with Madeleine.

And that romantic-erotic obsession is an immediately important theme of "Vertigo". Basically this is a movie about people in love with people they can’t be with.  Scottie falls for Madeleine, who - beyond the fact that she’s the wife of his friend - also lives under the delusion that she is possessed by the ghost of a dead person. 

Meanwhile, Midge (Barbara Bel Geddes), a friend of Scottie’s is in love with him, without Scottie seeming to realise it or feeling the need to correspond that love.  The characters are frustrated from the start, and the events in the film only serve to trigger those frustrations to a critical. 

 Madeleine kills herself by jumping from a church tower. Scottie's fear of heights prevents him from stopping her, and afterwards he stays behind with a sky-high sense of guilt.  several months later he meets Judy (again Novak), who bears an eerie physical resemblance to Madeleine. He talks to her and as the two enter into a relationship he purposefully changes her appearance to that of Madeleine (clothes, haircut, and so on). 

He uses Judy as blank canvas on which to bring Madeleine back to life, and she allows that. Why? Because Judy was hired by Gavin to frame Scottie.  Gavin killed his wife and threw her body down from the tower. 

Scottie's story made that no one would have trouble accepting the suicide. Undercover  Judy, however,  really falls in love with Scottie. Which immediately causes the third unrequited love in the movie - Scottie doesn't feel anything for Judy, he was in love with Madeleine, with the fictional creation Judy and Gavin had made for him.  With which Hitchcock reintroduced a time-honoured question: when we fall in love with someone, do we feel affection for that person themselves, or for the image we’ve imagined of that person. 

That was a very personal theme for Hitchcock. He was himself Married for more than 50 years to his wife Alma Reville, but his movies are packed with icy blondes who in most of his stories who in most of his work have to endure  at least one scene of mental humiliation or physical pain. From his work speaks a very ambiguous attitude towards women, and in "Vertigo” director decides to study that for the first time, on a psychologically profound level. 

After all, what else does a director do other than fill the actress’s empty  canvas with the behaviours and appearance that he himself has in mind to make his film? Judy / Madeleine is dominated by two men in the movie (or, if you like, directed): first off camera by Gavin, then by Scottie. In who she herself is, neither gentlemen are interested. 

Visually, "Vertigo" is probably Hitchcock's most ambitious film, in the sense that there is a strong symbolism throughout the film.With important roles for the colors green, red, yellow and blue. Green is continuously associated with Madeleine, her green dress when we first see her,  her green car to the natural green that often surrounds them. Why specifically that color? 

Green is traditionally the color of jealousy, and further it provides a kind of traffic light contrast with the red identifying Scottie: just look at his red ties, his red front door and the bright red interior of his favourite restaurant, where some important scenes take place. 

Scottie is someone who until he meets Madeleine, keeps romantic feelings at bay as much as possible: he pretends  he doesn’t understand Midge’s advances, has never married and prefers to be  so. 

He is a rational man, who rejects everything that threatens his rational, carefully demarcated world (including powerful emotions such as love). When Gavin is asked at the start of the film  if he believes in ghosts, he answers immediately, resolute and without thinking "no". As the story continues that certainty crumbles - as is often the case with Hitchcock, rationality disappears the life of the main character. 

During a key scene in a forest, Madeleine walks away from Scottie as if in a trance, only to disappear behind a tree. Scottie stares dubiously: Where has she gone? Suddenly disappeared as the ghost she is? No, of course not, she’s standing just behind the tree, but Scottie (and the audience) are in doubt briefly. 

Yellow then is the color of Midge, a safe, warm color which suggests homeliness. Her relationship with Scottie is in part love, partly motherly. And blue than reappears when the feelings of guilt of the characters returns (note Scotties bright blue suits during the second half of the film). The visual motifs of ‘Vertigo’ don’t end there - spiral forms constantly return as a visual representation of Scottie’s dizziness and then of course there's the infamous technique that Hitchcock used to zoom in while he camera physically moves backwards, which made Scotties fear of heights palpable. It's perhaps one of the most imitated shots in film history. 

James Stewart had played darker roles more often than ever since the 1950s  (as opposed to his overbearingly wholesome image that he acquired in the 30′s in  films like ‘It’s a Wonderful Life ’and‘ Mr Smith Goes to Washington ’). He knows how to give Scottie real emotional depth, nominally the hero of the movie, but actually a mentally deeply hurt person. 

His monologue at the end, in which he confronts Judy / Madeleine and his own  anxiety is probably one of the best moments from his career. Kim Novak, who during the first half hour of the film has almost no lines plays the ultimate Hitchcock blonde with Madeleine: cool, distant, troubled and - for the hero at least - irresistible. The complete opposite way in she plays Judy indicates how good and varied her register as an actress was. 

"Vertigo" is a slow, methodical film, especially according to current  standards. It’s a film that requires patience, but one that also rewards that patience. Thematically, this is without a doubt the best film that Hitchcock has ever - not to mention his most daring - visually its his most complex and thoughtful. With "Vertigo", Hitchcock faced some of his own demons. The confrontation resulted in unforgettable cinema.

@idasessions​ @mad-prophet-of-the-airwaves​ @siobhanlovesfilm​ @purecinema​

#back with a new movie analysis! #vertigo #50’s cinema #vertigo 1958 #alfred hitchock #kim novak #movies #films #cinema #review #film analysis #filmista