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preciouslittlebhaalbabe3 · 11 days

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Thoughts about Ascended Astarion! (This is a long one, and I'm not trying to change anyones opinion, just highlighting the fact that the player is in complete control of the situation at all times. This game is about choices.) First off, I don't usually prefer to ascend him. But I love all versions of Astarion. His character is so well written and all of his arcs deserve praise and attention no matter what your personal opinion of them are. The devs did an incredible job. If any parts of his arc (ascended or spawn) make you uncomfortable, then romancing him isn't for you. If the dynamic between AA and your character makes you feel scared or upset, don't ascend him. That dynamic is supposed to be 100% consentual. He's a tough nut to crack and his story can be very triggering. I myself broke down a few times hearing him talk about what he went through. There are other companions with lovely character development that you can choose. When people go "ugh he's ruined I didn't want this" My dear, with all due respect. This is the dark fantasy romance option. Emphasis on the fantasy. You didn’t get his approval by being nice. It's not like he's the only option. You chose to romance the vampire. The game warns you of what exactly you're about to do multiple times. You willingly help him murder thousands of people for freedom. A vampire who was a literal slave for longer than he was even alive for just got a MASSIVE amount of power. Were you expecting he was gonna just be a good guy now? He has had NOTHING for so long. His entire life trajectory changed within moments. He’s still figuring himself out. You as the player are still completely in charge. He owes everything to you and he knows that. You can walk away at literally any point. He asks you to kneel and obey to establish trust and a dynamic. To confirm this is what you want. YOU CAN SAY NO. Then, he gets right down on the floor with you. He's either gentle or rough based on your choice. If you don't like the vibe just break up with him at that point like he literally lets you do. Or, even just reload the save. But just remember. "That's what you want, isn't it?". When Astarion ascends, Neil says it best. His mask is off and he's allowed to be at his most terrible with no fear. He doesn't have to perform or be aloof as a distraction from the pain anymore. He was never good aligned. But now, he has the power and ability to give himself and his favourite person the life he thinks they wanted. Otherwise why would you ascend him? His love language becomes acts of service and gifts. He ADORES tav to almost obsession. He's always doting on them and calling them his. The ritual only amplifies that. "but what about what he says if you convince him not to go through with it?"

He’s not lying. He knows tav saved him from himself. It is technically the “good” ending. But that’s not what matters here. The ascension is for characters who are not good aligned. It is for characters that are just as much of a power hungry monster as ascended Astarion is. They want to be a monarch that rules the world over. It’s a role playing thing. Is it wrong? That’s for you to decide for yourself. Not others.

"but what about karlach? He's a massive jackass to her when he ascends" ...Yes. He's not a good guy. Karlach is basically the goodest character in the game. It won't work. And if you do break up with him, he lashes out and says some extremely hurtful things. Because you just broke his heart. It's a perfectly normal response from someone being completely blindsided. He thought you wanted this. You said you wanted this. After everything you both did you get here, he feels betrayed. Not even to mention ascended Astarion does not make you just a regular spawn. You quite literally become his vampire spouse. He thanks you for putting your trust in him. Then eventually you become a true vampire with time. He wants to make sure tav doesn't go insane after being turned. If you wanna learn more about vampire spouses in DnD I highly reccomend doing some google searches. It's fascinating. Is ascending him the right thing to do? No, but it's not "wrong". The game doesn't work that way. Is keeping him a spawn the right thing to do? Maybe, if your character thinks it is. Either route has their sets of pros and cons. It's up to you which ones you think work for your playthrough.

I almost always convince him not to go through with the ritual. But ascended Astarion + durge is a power couple and the vibes are immaculate for evil runs. Just have fun with the game! The devs made all these character arcs for you to explore! Thanks for reading <3

#baldurs gate #baldur's gate 3 #bg3 #astarion #bg3 astarion #astarion baldurs gate #ascended astarion #spawn astarion #vampire spawn #dark consort #dark romance #astarion analysis #ascended astarion analysis #let people enjoy things

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thatdangeroussmile · 2 months

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I ascended Astarion for the first time and I was given the option to Detect Thoughts before I knelt to see “What he really thinks of me”.

Long post but interesting analysis of Ascended Astarion and him turning the player character under the cut

Things to keep in mind (but that I know probably don’t really matter):

Approval was at Exceptional (100)

This is a Dark Urge play through so I’m the literal child of a God (which all companions knew at this point)

No Astral tadpole had been used or discussed (the subject was dropped entirely which now I regret).

I did indeed have sex with Mizora and I am also romancing Halsin (both interactions have no impact on your romance with Astarion)

So tell me why, when I did my wisdom check to detect thoughts, I GOT MY FUCKING FEELINGS HURT.

LIKE MY ACTUAL FEELINGS.

FOR REAL, MY GUY? AFTER EVERYTHING? YOU’RE GOING TO DEGRADE ME FOR ETERNITY?

BUT FOR WHY?

And when I refused, “it’s not hard to find someone like me once in a millennia” is what he spat at me (while checking his nails so unbothered) and the interaction ENDS ABRUPTLY.

I, of course, went back and went through with it because I went through hell trying to ascend this fucking asshole but I could use some insight on why Ascended Astarion decides to start degrading you as soon as he ascends.

I kissed him at camp just after Cazador’s dungeon, and I got one of the three very degrading kisses and my character hadn’t even been turned yet. Thank goodness it wasn’t one with the slap included.

It was all downhill after the long rest.

SO LET’S UNPACK THIS

At first, I was like, after all that he went through it sucks he’d turn me into a spawn too. You have an option to say this to him before he changes you and he again, tries to explain it away, gaslight, and manipulate you into trusting him so he can bite you.

But, it isn’t just a bite. Not like when he was changed right?

RIGHT! In my mind, I was like, I’m not delulu he’s definitely toxic but this toxicity feels unfortunately familiar.

I reblogged a post (I don’t have it now but scroll and you’ll find it) that got me thinking, why would Larian make this choice for Ascended Astarion if AA is the real Astarion without the mask? Spawn Astarion spent the whole game talking about how much being a spawn sucked and then as soon as he isn’t one is going to try to make us one? That doesn’t make any sense story wise OR character wise.

Anyway, the post in question talks about creating a vampire bride and the lore in Dungeons and Dragons 2e.

Even if you are or arent familiar with the lore but have played bg3 to hell and ALWAYS romance Astarion, chances are you always have the dialogue after he feeds on you in ACT 1

Where he says, “If I’d been a true vampire, that bite would have turned you into a vampire spawn, like myself”.

The dialogue goes heavily into what it takes to make a true vampire, but we also immediately learn that if you��re a true vampire, it doesn’t take much to make a spawn (Astarion’s change into spawn follows 5e rules- the bite must take hit points to zero and then he was buried in the ground for him to rise the next night under Cazadors control). Meaning, if us as the MC had been paying attention, there is no exchange of blood to make a spawn. The subject gets nothing. They are bitten, dead and buried to rise as a slave.

Returning to the part of the ACT 1 dialogue about how one makes a true vampire, Astarion says “In Theory” meaning he isn’t sure. But yes, “The Vampire would drink your blood and you’d drink theirs,”.

Sound familiar?

ACT 3 right before he changes you, “I’m going to drink you dry and then grant you one drop of my blood”.

This isn’t how you make a spawn. This is how you make a true vampire or more specifically for the case of the game a vampire bride but the ritual is almost the same.

They drink your blood, you drink theirs.

Another way you can tell that he didn’t turn you into a spawn is that, when Spawns emerge, the emerge knowing exactly what to do and how to be a vampire.

Because your character was not turned into a spawn but is still very much bound to Ascended Astarion (if you’re dark urge and go to the tribunal after and try to throw your weight around as a child of bhaal, they call you a slave and then initiative starts), is because you’re a Vampire Bride(gn).

Vampire Bride’s do not wake up knowing what the hell is going on so AA straight up lies to you. You do indeed have free will and while, no you still cannot just walk away because he’s still your creator, he can’t compel you to do anything. And, that’s why you’ll still be seen as a slave by outside forces and other gods because you would need AA permission to break your bond.

Anyway, why this toxicity felt familiar is because the first thing he says is “Thank you for trusting me”. And then he goes ahead and lies to you and DEGRADES YOU TO MAKE YOU FEEL POWERLESS.

And then love bombs you to make you stay “The world will be yours and mine, etc”

MORE DEGRADATION

BECAUSE FOR ALL YOU KNOW, YOURE A SPAWN AND COULDNT LEAVE IF YOU WANTED TO.

Even though he made you a true vampire, his bride. And instead of telling you that and trusting you, he degrades and lies to you and makes you think he could control you at any time to MAKE SURE YOU NEVER LEAVE HIS SIDE.

#bg3 #ascended astarion #dark urge #ascended Astarion analysis #baldur's gate 3 astarion #baldur's gate astarion #bg3 spoilers #durgestarion

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anotherdarkiboi · 7 months

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Is anyone going to talk about how Cazador was also both victim and abuser? How as Vellioth's spawn, he tried to reach out to a former friend (likely for help) and then Vellioth made Cazador watch as he drained his friend dry as punishment (and how Cazador locked Astarion up in a tomb for a year after being unwilling to kill a "darling boy" and trying to run)? How Cazador tried to rebel against his master and failed, being impaled for 11 years after (and how in Cazador's journals, he records all the actions of his spawn “with particular attention paid to Astarion”, and it's only in recent entries when Astarion disobeys him and goes missing that he “betrays any emotion” and is furious, writing about how he tortured Astarion's "siblings" for not finding him and wanting to torture Astarion himself)? How Cazador kills Vellioth during the Rite of Perfect Slaughter (just as Astarion kills Cazador during his Ascension ritual)?

How Astarion says that Cazador took particular pleasure in torturing him because his “screams sounded the sweetest”, but it's more likely that Cazador saw himself in Astarion from when he was Vellioth's spawn? How Cazador says "You are mine. Forever." in Astarion's nightmare, and how Ascended Astarion says "That's what you want, isn't it? To be mine, forever?" to Tav?

The parallels. The cycle. Augh.

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cheekylittlepupp · 4 months

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You all know A Astarion's epilogue outfit, but have you ever wondered whether it's bats or dragons? Me and @egooppidum were wondering that today and we came to the conclusion that it's 100% dragons. The symbolism is SUPERB. Hats off to Larian for this.

Brace yourselves this might be a bit long ~

"Red dragons are covetous, evil creatures, interested only in their own well-being, vanity and the extension of their treasure hoards. They are supremely confident of their own abilities."

"Rarely, red dragons would adopt a protective yet patronizing manner towards creatures they saw as inferior that lived within their self-imposed borders" - Oh you precious dark consort, how lucky you are to have the greatest vampire lord as your master, for him to bless you with his eternal gift, turn you into his spawn, his right hand.

"Red dragons believed that if a being was not strong enough to protect what it had, then it did not deserve to keep it. This applied not just to treasure, but to life. They despised weakness among their own kind." Literally ANY line from him when he talks about his former 'weak and pathetic self'.

Him being obssessed with power and how that's the only important thing in this world. This would be huge if I added all of those lines tbh.

"Red dragons were known for their swift and fiery tempers—if angered, they would explode into a destructive rage and become even more impulsive and vengeful" - Practically his entire dialogue when you break up with him after the ascension or declining to become his spawn. Even subtly threatening you

"Such rages were in part due to their fragile pride and feeling that any loss, insult, or defeat meant a loss of status if not addressed—causing chaos and destruction assuaged wounded pride and mitigated lost status" - He sees himself as the best version of himself right now and the fact that you reject him, in any kind of way wounds him greatly. This is why he starts hurling insults at you, to hurt you back, to try and cover up the fact that you just shattered his ego

"They were the most avaricious and were constantly looking to expand their hoards with treasure, they were the most obsessive collectors." Recall how he calls you his treasure and how you’ll be together forever, he will have you forever. He is in fact obsessed with wealth. He would also like to sequester you in a deep chamber in his lair, I mean palace and keep you all to himself.

"They would also boast about their magnificent hoards." Him at the epilogue party. ESPECIALLY in the non romanced version.

"Preferring their own company and engaging with others only when it had purpose, they were solitary creatures and cared little for news of other types of dragons, though they did look for news of other red dragons in their area and of affairs in the world in general. They used other charmed creatures as messengers, informants, and spies to bring them information"

"And of course they were recognized by their scarlet and crimson scaled hides" self explanatory really ~

"The vanity of red dragons was often revealed in their prideful postures and the looks of disdain with which they regarded all others"

"To have is nothing, to keep is all."

"In fact, in many ways, they were most like hoursecats" I had to add this, it's too funny

Okay I'm stopping here because This will be massive if I don't shut up. We can replace "red dragons" with Astarion and it would fit perfectly. I'm leaving you guys the link for the red dragon wiki, have fun with it ~

https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Red_dragon

#astarion #baldur's gate 3 #bg3 #ascended astarion #vampire lord astarion #baldurs gate 3 #baldurs gate #baldur's gate astarion #astarion ancunin #bg3 spoilers #baldur's gate iii #mims posts ~#bg3 angst #bg3 analysis

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brabblesblog · 4 months

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Astarion's little look to the right thing

A little something I noticed when researching for Whither is thy beloved gone?

In moments when he's being vulnerable, he looks away and to his right. I always assumed this was a spawn thing.

*It's not just to the right. He looks to the left when asked what you two are in act 3. In act 2, he looks everywhere.

BUT.

This is a conversation you have after breaking up with AA.

Not going to make any judgments on the sincerity of AA here. That's always up to you. But still, interesting.

Disclaimer: I normally don't do the AA route and speedran it, so I may have missed more stuff.

#astarion #astarion baldurs gate #astarion ancunin #astarion bg3 #astarion romance #ascended astarion #vampire ascendant #bg3 astarion #bg3 analysis #astarion analysis #baldurs gate astarion

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sadanduncertain · 5 months

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The parallels in the epilogue between Ascendant Astarion's "I'm always watching" and Spawn Astarion's "I'll always be here, my love" hit me so hard

#a man of true duality #i could write a whole essay about it #bg3 #baldur's gate 3 #astarion #bg3 astarion #astarion ancunin #astarion analysis #ascendant astarion

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astarions-wife · 5 months

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I can’t believe it’s come to the point of analyzing Cazador for all of you, but considering the amount of “Cazador can be redeemed!” And “Cazador x reader” I’ve seen, I feel like i need to make this.

So you feel pity for Cazador because he also suffered at the hands of his master. Good. That’s the point. You should feel something for Cazador, he also suffered abuse, and was dragged into the cycle of it by Vellioth. It’s awful, it’s terrible, but it doesn’t mean he’s redeemable.

Very much so, when Cazador kills Vellioth and chooses to start the cycle of power and abuse over again, he was too far gone. He made the choice, the conscious choice to be the same as his old master. Of course he’s suffering internally, somewhere is the soul of someone who lost everything, and became something awful. However he doesn’t even say he wishes for a reset. He wishes for death. Only in death is he free of the cycle of abuse, for his role in it is too far gone at this point.

“Orin and Gortash have apologists!” They do, but they’re also under different circumstances. It’s also justifiable to absolutely hate Orin and Gortash (believe me, even as someone who believes Gortash could’ve been better, I killed him in my initial run). Specifically as the Dark Urge, you can tell Orin that she’s being used just as Kethric and Gortash were. She’ll even break down as if she’s realizing that all this death she’s done in the name of her father/for her God, has been her being taken advantage of. Though she never gets a chance to be better, because she’s forcibly transformed in this ending, it’s just a sneak peak of what could have been. She was being used, and while it doesn’t erase or justify ANYTHING she did (and you’re well within your right, and should hold her accountable), it at least gives the player insight on to what could have been.

Likewise with Gortash, a victim of abuse at the hands of Raphael, with canonical lines on how he was beaten in the House of Hope as a little boy. His own parents sold him out, and he ended up being so desperate to be bigger, to have more power, that he also let himself be used, and in turn lost everything he worked hard for (and sold out Karlach, which is absolutely unforgivable of course). However he wasn’t too far gone. You can see his loyalty to you depending what options you pick, and although death is his inevitable end, it still shows that there was still a person inside.

There wasn’t a person in Cazador anymore. He was trapped behind the wall of abuse that he continued, and refused to even acknowledge it, or try and see reason. Perhaps it wasn’t possible for him, but ultimately his actions brought him here. Those that say Ascension for Astarion would free him of those chains, are simply wrong. Why does Astarion deserve to live, anymore than his siblings? Or the seven thousand people who were turned against their will? Of course Astarion is more, controlled in his hunger—but so are his siblings. Even speaking to them after the fight they’ll all vow and attest that they can control themselves, and they’ll even help the others if brought to it.

Ascended Astarion picks up the abuse cycle, killing thousands of people with just his first command. Ascended Astarion no longer speaks to you, but instead at you. You’re his “favorite” spawn, but then again Cazador had favorites didn’t he? And all of them suffered just as badly as the rest. Ascended Astarion even mentions “covering the world in darkness for his spawn”, which shows him continuing the abusive cycle that got Cazador in the first place.

Cazador dying, and spawn Astarion choosing to break the cycle is the significant ending. The best ending for Cazador, the only one for him, is to let him die. He’s a horrible, cruel, bitter man, and any sense of his humanity died long ago. Only in his dreams is there anything left, and he’s too cut off to even reach them anymore.

We also know that the Szarr’s had family. There are relatives to Cazador (see his niece), and clearly it wouldn’t have been wrong of him as a vampire to have a family if he so chose. But he didn’t seek out a partner, like some of his other (vampire) relatives did. He chose to only live by his spawn, whom he considered his children, showing that he truly didn’t see a need for a partner. Themes of family are a vital part of his story, but the element of a romantic partner never has been.

TLDR—Some villains in this game are understood, and potentially redeemable if given the option. Cazador is not one of them.

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shadowshrike · 4 months

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The Curious Case of Halsin and Astarion's Ascension

For anyone who's occasionally poked around my stuff, you probably know that I found my Evil run of Baldur's Gate 3 (by which I mean my selfish run where I tried to gain as much power, wealth, and companion trust as I could) to be my most satisfying thus far. Part of that was the unique experience of having Halsin ask to join Tav and Astarion's relationship post-Ascension.

At the time, I said yes because it made sense for my character to "collect" an Archdruid. Out of character, I was tickled by the idea that Halsin confessed after Astarion became the new biggest bad in the land. Halsin was supposed to be a Good guy. Surely, either a possessive Astarion would be spitting mad about the arrangement, or Halsin would have second thoughts about Mr. Vampire Ascendent once he got a taste. I was ready for the drama.

It never came. In fact, the glimpses of their dynamic were so comfortable and playful that I was shocked.

Since then I've been doing a lot of thinking about Halsin and why he might act how he does throughout the Ascension storyline. I realize most of this can be handwaved with 'fanservicey romance writing.' That's true for parts of all romance paths, honestly, and I don't consider it a wholly bad thing given the game's goal to make you its center. However, I think being dismissive of the writing is not as much fun as building headcanons that work with any set of behaviors or lines you get.

So enjoy some theories pulled from datamined dialogue and my personal games. As always, this is completely hypothetical - I encourage everyone to write 'canon' in their personal playthroughs however they prefer.

Note: it's impossible to get all these lines in a single run due to some hinging on Astarion leaving and some may be bugged or near impossible to trigger. They're just being used to explore a character and dynamic that I don't see much of around fan spaces.

Halsin on the value of lives

To briefly set the stage, it's important to understand how Halsin views life and justice. He spells it out rather clearly if Kagha kills Arabella and her parents are also dead.

Halsin doesn't consider himself to be an arbiter of good and evil, only a steward of nature and its Balance. He highly values life. However, it's not him, the leader of the Grove, who is ultimately responsible for deciding Kagha's fate; it's the wronged parties or, barring that, nature itself who should decide her true punishment.

Halsin: As for the idol? It's nothing compared to a life. A mere object, next to one of nature's creations. I cannot absolve you, even if you are repentant. The girl's parents should have decided your fate, but they perished. Instead, nature will judge you. You are banished from this place - banished from everywhere the Oak Father's creations thrive.

But valuing the sanctity of life doesn't mean he doesn't also understand the importance of sacrifice. For example, if Wyll chooses his freedom over his father, Halsin counsels that it's a necessity to sacrifice to grow at times, no matter how unpleasant.

Halsin: You made a hard choice, Wyll. But not one that is unknown in nature. At times, a seedling must strangle the very tree that bore it, if it is to survive.

The price of 7000

So, Halsin's not a big fan of sacrificing life, yet understands that sometimes, people need to die for others to thrive.

But what about 7000 lives? A whole village worth?

That level of sacrifice sounds an awful lot like the day his life was destroyed by Ketheric and the Shadow Curse. A horrible event that haunted his every thought and deed for the next 100 years.

Within this context, it makes sense that all of his responses during the Ascension, whether Astarion does it or not, are focused on the price being paid. He usually emphasizes the sheer number of people affected and never discusses Astarion's potential evil (more on that later) or the undead nature of those lives.

Halsin: Stay your hand, Astarion. To sacrifice so many is a tyrant's ambition.

Halsin: All those lives snuffed out, just to grasp some power. That was craven - unnatural.

Halsin: Astarion resisted the allure of Cazador's would-be powers - and I am glad of it. Whatever he would have gained would have come at a great price.

The interesting part about this is, as an Archdruid of Silvanus, those undead lives should be considered an abomination. The Oath of Ancients oath break if you free the spawn reminds us of this. So Halsin's advice to save the spawn is not necessarily druidic advice - it is a personal opinion wrapped in flimsy druidic justifications.

He even recognizes undead as unnatural when you enter Cazador's home:

Halsin: A lair of undeath - most unnatural. We must tread carefully.

Yet about the spawn, who are undead and an intimate part of that unnaturalness, he says this about releasing them:

Halsin: Good - they deserve a chance at life. Nature will handle their fates from here.

Mercy for all monsters?

This is interesting to compare to another encounter with a smaller version of an eerily similar choice in Act III. The mindflayer in the Windmill - a person turned into a monster, much like a spawn. Allow it to live, and it may devour a family. In that case, Halsin says:

Halsin: We allowed this unnatural thing to live - now a whole family's worth of blood is on our hands.

He joins a host of other Good companions who curse themselves for showing mercy where it wasn't warranted. These are largely the same companions who would also save the spawn.

Karlach: This is our fault. These people died because of us. What were we thinking?

Wyll: Justice does not entail granting mercy to monsters. We should not have let this abomination go free.

Gale: A cruel conclusion to the mercy we showed, but hardly an unpredictable one. As long as it lives, so will its appetite.

The contradictory perspective taken during these two storylines shows the importance of emotional context in how we make decisions. For most, their traveling companion, who also has a tadpole, is the first vampire spawn they've ever met, while mindflayers have generally been the big evil this entire time. This could lead them to feel as though a horde of spawn may have enough humanity to need a chance, while a newborn Mindflayer should be exterminated on sight. Also, most of the other Good companions are relatively young and idealistic, so it makes sense that some may make foolhardy, heroic decisions.

But this encounter also begs the question: if these heroes are so distraught by having the blood of one family on their hands due to a single hungry mindflayer they saved, how could they justify letting 7000 starving monsters with unquenchable bloodlust free? Are they simply kind-hearted and short-sighted? Or maybe they're only optimistic about the hunger of vampire spawn, despite having personal examples of both a spawn and a mindflayer who manage their hunger equally ethically - by feeding on enemies and criminals.

Their naivety is driven home by Jaheira not being moved by the mindflayer or the spawn due to her extensive life experience. She believes in both cases that the greater mercy is to kill the creatures now.

(About the spawn) Jaheira: And what of the living they'll feast on, should they not prove as admirable as Astarion? They deserve a chance, too.

(About mindflayer) Jaheira: Look well. Our stupidity. Our price to pay.

Halsin is even older. He's a devout druid. He recognizes undead as unnatural. By all accounts, he should be on the same page as Jaheira to preserve the Balance. Yet in the face of that, he still advises to give the spawn a chance to live free, likely wreaking havoc wherever they need to feed.

I like to think this strange blind spot in his doctrine is due to a combination of Astarion's presence humanizing the unknown spawn, therefore making their unlives worthy of protection, and his own history as a genocide survivor creating an emotional reaction strong enough to override his usual wisdom. The price of a village is simply too devastating and personal for him to condone. No matter what letting 7000 ravenous undead free may mean.

Making the price worth it

Once you've ascended Astarion, you may be surprised that Halsin - generally a good man - is now steadfastly on Astarion's side. His reactions to the Gur conflict highlight this. If you side with Astarion against them, he's not happy, but resolute.

Halsin: An unfortunate battle... but I must stand by those I count as allies.

And if you decide Astarion is evil now and side with the Gur, Halsin doesn't seem to care about what Astarion has become, only that you allowed the sacrifice to happen and then let it go to waste:

Halsin: We allowed Astarion to sacrifice so many, only to just turn on him soon after? We should have stopped him sooner.

In contrast, many other companions call Ascended Astarion a monster, evil, or maniacal if you turn on him. They believe killing him at that point was the only right answer.

Karlach: It's done. It had to be done. Astarion was... out of control. Gods dammit. Look, he was an evil leech, but he was ours. I thought he'd changed. I was wrong. I always am these days.

Minsc: Do not mourn Astarion. The Gur are known to be a just and righteous people among the Rashemaar. They named Astarion monster, and so monster he was. Yes, Boo - even if he sometimes seemed a friend.

Gale: That's one scourge eliminated. A vampire with that much power would be a death sentence for this city. A pity Astarion didn't understand that. Or rather, didn't care.

Lae'zel: Astarion proved himself no less maniacal than his master. His death was a favour - to him, to us, and to the city.

Wyll: Hunt the monsters of the Sword Coast, protect the people - that was my promise. Killing Astarion was the right thing to do. I have to believe that. But I'm not proud of it. Not after... all this.

Ignoring Astarion's evil and telling you that you shouldn't have betrayed him may seem odd for a character who usually has a strong moral compass. Especially since Halsin doesn't tell you that you shouldn't have betrayed Shadowheart if you choose that path, though he's wary of that decision since you're handing her over to Sharrans. However, if Halsin's focus is on the 7000 lives and not on Astarion's personal kindness or cruelty, it makes more sense.

The people are gone. There is no taking back all those lost. So he's left with the need to make their sacrifice something other than a meaningless slaughter. The power for his companion must be worth it.

Halsin on Evil Astarion

You may be thinking, "Okay, but even if it's all about the mass sacrifice mimicking his own horrific past, shouldn't he still care about Astarion being Evil? He doesn't like evil acts at all!"

That's mostly true. Halsin certainly hates Shar for personal reasons and can get upset when you do cruel things. However, he's also potentially had a bit of a soft spot for Astarion since Act I, when you can decide the vampire spawn is evil and kill him or kick him out of camp.

His lines for this are actually shared with Karlach, Wyll, and Jaheira, according to the data. The uniqueness is primarily in his distraught line delivery.

If you kill Astarion, Halsin admits that he liked the guy even though he was a killer:

Halsin: Rest in peace, Astarion. You may have been a blood-thirsty murderer, but I liked you all the same.

And if you send him away, Halsin says this about Astarion being alone in the woods:

Halsin: He's someone else's problem now, anyway. Woods are full of boars. Maybe he'll learn his lesson and start hunting something that won't miss him when he goes.

His camp reactions immediately after Ascension mirror this attitude of concern rather than condemnation of evil. If Halsin speaks directly to Astarion, he sounds exasperated (the way Halsin says his name always makes me snicker) while Halsin once again brings up the idea of the price being paid.

Halsin: Astarion... you have ascended amongst the ranks of the undead. I can only hope that you do not come to regret the price that you paid.

However, the almost identical line if he's talking to another player character is delivered differently, particularly in how he says Astarion's name. It's more concerned than judgmental, implying that his frustration with Astarion is coming from a place of worry rather than pure anger.

Halsin: Astarion... he has ascended amongst the ranks of the undead. I can only hope that he does not come to regret the price that he paid.

This is particularly notable because it's in contrast to Shadowheart, who has a very similar line after her evil choice, but the emotion behind both sounds more similar to my ear.

After that initial comment, Halsin can banter with Ascended Astarion about how he's turned the player into a vampire spawn if there's a player romance. Unlike most of the other companions who can comment, such as Wyll and Gale, he expresses worry for both of them, not just the player. He also explicitly explains he has no intention of kink-shaming them, just warns about how dangerous having a master/thrall relationship can be if made real.

Halsin: To give oneself wholly, and to have a lover totally in your thrall...? A harmless game, until it becomes real. I worry for the two of you, Astarion. For your sake, I hope some of it is just a fantasy, deep in your heart.

But perhaps the most blatantly accepting we see him of Ascended Astarion is if they go to the Drow twins together. There are always some playful lines with one another if they're both present, but one is unique to Ascension if the player bites Halsin as a spawn during the scene. Halsin's response is light and delighted, acknowledging Astarion's role as not just a vampire, but the lead in your new relationship.

Halsin: Ha - tickles. See what a bad influence you are, Astarion?

Combine with Halsin's direct propositioning of Astarion if Astarion teases him about his night with the player, and there's a case for long-held attraction as well, regardless of alignment.

Astarion: I hear things got wild between you two. I hope no one was too badly mauled. Halsin: We're all in one piece. Perhaps you'll join us next time. Astarion: It's bad enough having one person with fangs trying to keep control of themselves. Two of us could be dangerous.

All these lines, taken together during times when others label Astarion a monster, suggest that Halsin accepts Astarion as a whole. He doesn't believe in trying to change people's nature, so maybe he sees any distasteful deeds as part of Astarion's, the same as an owlbear cub eating its mother might disgust some though it is completely natural.

It makes sense, then, that Halsin might be proud of Astarion for choosing morality or personal growth, but he isn't too bothered if that doesn't happen either. What line Astarion would have to cross to earn Halsin's true ire is unknown. The reverse is a much more complicated question (mostly because it's plausible that many of Astarion's lines are rooted in deception) that I may delve into another time.

Is this whole relationship a little ironic given that Halsin is The Selfless Good Druid and Astarion is The Selfish Evil Undead? Absolutely. But that's the fun of it, in my opinion. It adds depth to these characters in ways that rarely shine through during a singular playthrough, especially since very few will do the crazy thing I did with an Ascended Astarion + Halsin romance.

It sure makes for narrative fun, though.

#baldur's gate 3 #bg3 #halsin #ascended astarion #halstarion #analysis

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astarionconsort · 4 months

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Ascendant Astarion was driven by fear, but can you really blame him?

Okay so I just read the newest interview that mentioned Astarion reasoning behind his ascension was driven by fear and I thought it made sense?

Tho I don't believe that fear was the only force behind the reason of his decision to ascend, there's a longing to be alive again to enjoy everything that the world has to offer, the need for certainty and also to protect his loved ones (when he has a love interest)

But let's talk about this fear part, there are people (even the companions) who expected that 'he should have known better' or 'shouldnt even think about ascension' and sees this fear in the recent interview as something that is so horrid but here's the thing.

"You are right to be afraid." I mean DUH obviously it makes sense. Astarion lives in a very dangerous world where countless undead risen from their graves thanks to necromancer toying with life and death, there are bandits everywhere, monsters, evil gods who never failed to make life even more miserable than ever and even the supposedly good aligned god can be so awful at times, etc etc.

The party that he traveled with and himself were infected with worms that would eat their brain and transformed them into a living husk, the absolute cult and the dead three were on their tail, angry devils, Cazador wanted him back and not to mention the Githyanki and their lich queen wanted them dead as well for what happened with the prism

Even during act 3 where they were supposedly close to victory. The victory was not set in stone yet, nothing is certain and something could have gone wrong. They could have died or even worse!

Not to mention he's a man who was tormented for 200 hundred years. He was stripped of everything that he had and even his own reflection, reduced to catched rats to sustain himself.

Can you really blame him for wanting to seek a way out from Cazador's torment, the hunger for blood and the indignity that he suffered for so long?

Also it would be harder to convince him to not ascend if Tav or Durge romanced him. Because now he's not just afraid for his own safety and his future but also his lover. The only person whom he ever love and genuinely love him back in 200 years (also not ending up as a victim for Cazador)

Most people would have killed him when they found that he's a vampire and infected with an Illithid parasite. Most people would have abandoned him

Tav/Durge was the only light in his life after years of living in darkness and torment, you can't really blame him for wanting to keep this light from being snuffed out by untimely death

And if that means sacrificed 7000 souls that he already damned anyway (undead like vampire wouldn't be accepted by good aligned gods in the after life, not sure about evil gods but most deities most won't accept them) so be it

I don't see this fear behind his decision as something that is objectively awful? I mean it is a natural respond anyone would have if they were in his shoes

Then you might ask "If Astarion loves Tav or Durge that much why he insisted on turning them into a vampire? And break up if they refused?"

Because he was overwhelmed by his beating heart/ his renewed sense, the high from his power and he's also insecure. At that point in act 3 he expected Tav and Durge to stand by his side no matter what

Because they were the only person who didn't kill the parasite infested vampire spawn at the beach, who loves him anyway despite the face he was a man with nothing to his name, who were willing to sacrifice 7000 souls and killed the Gur for him!

Ascended Astarion didn't want THAT special person to be taken by early death or a fate worse than death

He needed the reassurance that his love would be safe and no gods nor fate will take them away

If they refused to be an immortal vampire then they were as good as sealed their fate to death. Astarion didn't want to face that heartbreak

The thing that I don't agree with the interview is that the interpretation that ascension sent him to a horrible place? It was kinda vague? Like worse place when? During or after the ascension? Because this cannot apply after the ascension since I have taken so many screenshot and recording of ascendant astarion and I didn't see him feeling miserable about his fate. He was happy that the hunger gone and he could see his reflection again

Post final battle? The epilogue? After the epilogue party? This cannot be applied to all people, all route, all Tav/Durge and Astarion in general because there's variations. I mean you might see ascended Astarion as a bit lonely because he doesn't end up with anyone but in my Tav's universe he has a consort who stay by his side and their relationship is still going strong because my Tav is aligned with him

#astarion #astarion ancunin #bg3 analysis #bg3 meta #bg3 discourse #ascendant astarion #baldur's gate 3 #bg3 #astarion x dark urge #astarion x tav #ascended astarion

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lesfir · 1 month

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The "tragedy" of the ascension. No, another word beginning with "T".

Triumph of Evil. confide a secret This is Great.

I rate this story as a Triumph of Evil, which however does not mean tragedy for the evil character. Such an assessment requires a basis within the canon.

Original Astarion, describes his story to the Bosk bear Act 1: Astarion: Tell him your tale - wealth, power, vampires, crypt...

He remembers what he once had and what was taken from him. He has several goals depending on how much strength he has and how successfully he plays the cards of fate: defense, free, revenge, power. \get the hedonistic pleasures debauchery but that's another topic.\ A little analysis of Astarion's path of evil to triumph.

I'm more interested in the latter (Power), as it's where the complex moral begins. These are not all examples, but these are the ones I liked this time.

Astarion: What's not to enjoy? I can walk in sunlight, trespass upon any home, manipulate minds - I'm the most powerful vampire in the Realms! Astarion suspects that the parasite may have negated some of the downsides of being a vampire spawn. Perhaps his master has no power over him anymore. I can only add 10 audios :[

Astarion: No, I'll be safe when I'm powerful enough to grind Cazador into the dust. Powerful enough to do whatever the hell I want.

Astarion: But I'd have to climb so many stairs. Anyway, I already have my eye on a palace in Baldur's Gate. devote. NodeContext: 'palace in baldur's gate' Cazador's palace.

Astarion: Now that's what I like to see an elf at the head of an army. Even a Sharran one.

This shows the dialog over cult control very well. 33 Phrase only when the player hesitates. In other cases 31, he says: it sounds fun (it's useful to have and fun) It is well crafted depending on the player's play style. I analyzed that structure here. Astarion: I'm just saying there's an opportunity here. If we can control the tadpoles, we can keep ourselves safe and liberate the world from this evil. devnote. NodeContext: pause be 'liberate' as he considers what would sound good to a goody-two-shoes player. Astarion was thinking less liberate, more dominate

Astarion: I'm just saying there's an opportunity before us. If we can control the tadpoles, we can keep ourselves safe and enjoy a little world domination on the side. Astarion: You can't tell me that doesn't sound fun.

Important to note that Astarion is cunning enough to realize: There's a chance that he won't get any help, a vampire spawn, outcast. Not "Hello, my name is Astarion, give me whatever I want". So he adds logical, understandable, honorable goals. He benefits from emphasizing honorable one, especially for a good player. He also does the "puppy eyes" thing. Goals like his desire for protection and freedom. Power - that he tries (at least a little) to soften. Softening and logic - it will help us, it will protect us and save us. It makes sense. In my opinion he is absolutely right. No one wants to be tentacles, gnomes at duergar or Arabella's parents. Power is a nice thing in Faerun to have. However, his goals are diametrically opposed to the good. Because he tends to have a brutal power style and finds it fun. (this pie wouldn't mind owning the world) depending on the style of play with the evil player, he's more open. And those goals that are half-false - to liberate the world. There is logic in "liberate the world" since mind flayer is a worldwide threat and changing the world as they please. Not Good. Astarion, however, harbors a desire to rule - a city minimum. Which incidentally was his character before slavery, Magistrates do become Magistrates for a reason. Astarion's reason is wealth and power. There are so many moments. Even if you poke at the globe.

Moments aplenty are some of the ones that show his "Evil" by DND traits. Evil in DND is selfishness, doing what I want even if it's harmful, greed. Let's get back to genres. Tragedy implies the death of the hero. This is the meaning of tragedy and the difference from drama. Drama - combines the comic and the tragic. Unlike tragedy, drama can have a positive ending. Since when is a tragedy when a character has everything they've ever dreamed of, enjoys and doesn't give a fuck? This is the arch to the beginning - wealth and power. More greater. Astarion rather doesn't change in his Ascension. It's Astarion who has a Christmas present dropped on him in the first act. And it makes him euphoric, considering "feeling alive" for the undead is quite a thing. It's important to realize that Astarion isn't exactly an ordinary character. He's an evil character. Which for Wyll is hell. For Astarion, it can be considered fun when it's not happening to him. Watching someone fight to the death like on a show, for example. Do I have to include a screenshot here? XD "Astarion Approves It" is the title of a crime book. There's something light, certainly, otherwise it's not interesting. Astarion's dark side is luring. But the book is still on the top shelf, in the "evil" section. Curious how he perceives eternity. Astarion: Immortality is only as good as the life you're living. An eternity of luxury sounds a lot better than an eternity of struggle.

Astarion doesn't like the downsides of vampirism - it's mirror, sun, hunger, and for spawn, lack of power. But the very idea of Immortality, like eternal beauty is tempting.

Ascension - it's a vampire cheat, he feels alive, the vampire depression of the Vampire Lords eternity won't work for Ascension, that's the point of it. A Vampire's dream can't just be the same vampirism.

Here's a great video everything we know about Ascension and how it works. Immortality without the downside. Power, life of luxury. Astarion approves. It's Great. It's a Triumph. And it is the Triumph of Evil. (selfish, hurtful to others, greedy payment) BG3 Epilogue. Original God Gale. Lord Astarion. Astarion: You can't be serious. You miss being weak? Falling ill? Ageing? devnote. NodeContext: Slight stress on 'aging' Astarion: We can be honest with each other, Gale - one immortal being to another: this is great. devnote. NodeContext: "this is great" as if confiding a secret.

#astarion #ascended astarion #lord astarion #bg3 #Astarion analysis #baldur's gate 3 #bg3 astarion #People: see immortality as something sad. People: Heaven and the idea of an eternal soul gardens happiness clouds and peace forever.#astarion meta

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astarionposting · 6 months

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interesting... ascended astarion likes it more if you just let him bite you.

#bg3 #baldur's gate 3 #astarion #bg3 astarion #astarion analysis experts pls i need a more indepth analysis of this thank u #ascended astarion #ascended astarion u break my heart more and more :(#i mean ascended him does not help at all with his healing #probably just makes his trauma even worse

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coffeenonsense · 4 months

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I usually try to stay in my lane most of the time (mostly bc I am far too old for fandom drama) but what the hell, it's friday, let's put that lit degree to use:

the way people are playing morality politics with fiction is really starting to genuinely irk me and I think some of the responses to ascended astarion are a perfect example of why this type of thinking is actually hugely detrimental to one's ability to meaningfully engage with fiction and also to the future of art.

astarion is one of the most well-written complex characters I've seen in recent years bar none (and I'm clearly not alone given the explosion of his personal fandom lol) and he has a truly compelling, emotionally resonant character arc whether you ascend him or not

If you keep him a spawn, you get a deeply touching, realistic character's journey to healing and personal growth where he learns who he is after the experience of his trauma and depending on the player's choice, explores his relationship to sex, romance and intimacy

If you ascend astarion, you get an equally emotional and well-rounded character arc where he chooses the power that allows him to have the desperate freedom and safety he's wanted, but in the process eschews any hope of real healing or personal development, and again, depending on the player's choices, restarts the cycle of abuse by taking cazador's place.

These options offer vastly different paths for the character and experiences for the player, but while yes, ascended astarion is the evil ending, and yes, ascending astarion is a tragedy, and a fucking incredible one (not only do you have astarion reigniting a circle of abuse but you have the narrative weight of KNOWING he could have actually overcome his trauma...hats off to the bg3 team tbh) but that does not mean ascending astarion MAKES YOU AS THE PLAYER EVIL

Ascend astarion because you love tragic story arcs, ascend him because you want to indulge in a master/slave vampire fantasy, don't ascend him because you want a healing character journey, don't ascend him because you want a sweet romance; all of these choices carry the same moral weight for the player, which is to say, none, because they are an exploration of fiction.

I know I'm saying this to the villain fucker website but it bears repeating; just because someone wants to engage with evil, fucked up characters or content does not mean they support evil acts in their real life, and furthermore, exploring dark, taboo or tragic concepts safely is part of what fiction is for. It enables us to look at those things from a distance, work through difficult feelings and develop greater understanding of what makes our fellow humans tick — and before you get it twisted there's also no moral issue with exploring fucked up media bc you're horny or just, because. You can take it as seriously (or as sexily) as you want.

It's starting to really concern me how many people not only do not get, but are violently opposed to this concept, because equating what someone likes in fiction with their real life moral code and actions is an incredibly dangerous and let's be honest, immature way of thinking that not only stunts your ability to engage with fiction but ironically, hampers your ability to deal with complicated issues and emotions in real life.

I don't know what's driving this trend (though purity culture is certainly playing a role) but it's definitely something that's not just impacting individuals but contributing to the commercialization of art, where we get games and stories and tv shows and books that regurgitate the same safe, mass marketable plotlines and character archetypes over and over and over again so corporations can squeeze out as much profit as possible.

Anyway, remember kids: There's no such thing as thought crime, reaching for morally pure unproblematic media is directly contributing to the death of art, and this is why funding the humanities is important.

#so...yeah #idk man i have thoughts and feelings #and i love astarion so much lol #astarion #ascended astarion #bg3 #baldur's gate 3 #fandom analysis #media analysis #fiction #a personal rant because i need to vent about this and i just recalled i have a blog where i can indeed do so lol #astarion ancunin

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oonalovesastarionssimpleplan · 20 days

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I couldn't get this dialogue out of my head for days.

After I refused to become Astarion's spawn, he said.

I tried a few answers to see how he react. But his reaction to that one broke my heart

I was pathetic then

We remember that Cazador called him a pathetic little boy.

"I strove for perfection in all things, even those as imperfect as you"

I think that was Astarion's self-image too. The fact that we called him Perfect hit him hard. There is someone who really liked me as I was?

Aren't we all imperfect in the eyes of someone and unconsciously strive not to fit that image?

So i made a Video to make myself happy again

youtube

#daddy's good girl #spawn astarion #astarion #bg3 #baldurs gate 3 #ascended astarion #charakter analysis #Youtube

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mywitchcultblr · 5 months

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Odd question for you:

So, the humor of Batstarion aside, do some people just elect to read their own biases into things involving Ascended Astarion. I recall being early in the fandom and assuming based on general commentary he just locked you in his basement and then molests you.

Then: when I actually ascended him and am looking forward to this whole fantasy I just get a goofy, camp vampire Lord who literally lets you live your life. Where do I get a refund? Where is my vampire daddy? lol

Am I alone in this???

No, you are not alone. I found a lot of people who have a strong negative opinion about endings for bg3 companion... How I should explain it in English? Playing the telephone game? Where they are only receiving bits of information and never really experienced the ending themselves or at least never really thought about it deeply because they already developed a bias from these fragmented information and encouragement from like-minded people who share the same bias. Thus, the truth and nuance became diluted amidst the buzz and discourse. For example, Gale endings

GALE HAS NO EVIL ENDING. YES, THE GOD ENDING IS NOT EVIL

People mistook his ambition and huge ego as evil? I think this rooted from "God Gale doesn't propose Tav/Durge unlike human gale, so God ending must have been bad"

"Gale become power hungry, so it must be the evil ending and a bad ending" and "Larian said power is bad"

Gale is a neutral guy, as a human he is neutral good and as a God he became a neutral aligned God. His ascension to Godhood doesn't turn him into Bane or Bhaal, developing an ego big enough to the point he became a god doesn't make him evil or this ending evil. You might dislike it, but objectively, this ending is not evil or bad...

Gale bad ending is him dying and never resurrected, never recruited or sacrificed to BOAAL because they led to his untimely death before he can destroy the brain, reach the crown, or determine what he wanted, how he will approach Mystra...

"But Mystra will kill God Gale because he challenged her!" That is a possibility in his origin ending, before the epilogue is even released, now we got to see new and improved epilogue Gale can take his lover to his realm where they will enjoy their life as Gods, and he has a lot of plan, and although he kinda insinuates that he wanted to challenge Mystra, maybe Tav or Durge can persuade him to not do it

"What if he has no romantic partner?" Maybe he will challenge her, or maybe he will not. I found the ending where Gale immediately going after Mystra to be frustrating, it feels like Larian insisting on the 'power bad' thing in such an on the nose and irritating manner

Gale might have a big ego but HE IS NOT AN IDIOT, he is not a barbarian with 8 intellect, even when he's drunk on power he is still a highly intellectual person/being, and surely he should know that it will take a lot of time and resource for him to be able to challenge Mystra, is it even a good idea to fight her? What would AO say?

He should just focus on his own domain and followers

Same thing with Wyll, this guy HAS NO EVIL ENDING. WYLL CANNOT BE CORRUPTED. Yet there are people out there who say that him becoming a Duke is an evil ending, HOW?!

Now, Astarion... God help us all with this guy. The moment I saw his picture for the first time, I know his fandom will be a disaster

White, sassy, morally gray, handsome, twink, vampire with a sad backstory... The perfect tumblr sexyman, I love him, but I knew the conversation about him will be a mess and headache inducing

Ascendant Astarion is NOT a bad ending, is it evil? Yes, is it bad? No.

It is bad for the city to have yet another vampire lord, an even MORE powerful vampire lord who has no vampirism weakness, but this is NOT bad for him. He enjoyed the power, he enjoyed the freedom, and he finally reclaimed everything that Cazador took from him and even more. I found the notion that ascended astarion 'is not truly free' to be baffling because Cazador is gone, no one can compel him and enslave him anymore, and he is freed from all vampirism weakness.

So long Cazador is dead, both spawn and ascended astarion will be free and have the choice to lead the life they wanted. An outsider moral interpretation of his choice is not his own opinion

"Ascended Astarion regret his choice." No, he never did. I didn't find a single conversation or scene that say he regrets his ascension

"Ascended Astarion is meaner and more evil, so this fate is bad." Your feeling about him doesn't translate to what he feels and how he sees his life and choice...

Or like you said about people claimed. "Astarion will lock Tav/Durge in his basement and molest them" Now, is ascendant romance more toxic and darker than spawn romance? Yes (although it is pretty tame by vampire/yandere standard) but how he treat his lover also depends on Tav/Durge attitude towards him, their personality, their goal and YOUR OWN ideas/ interpretation...

Baldur's Gate give you 'hard canon' and things that you can interpret on your own because it is dungeon & dragons! Hard canon or fixed canon is something like "Orin will die either way" and "If you don't spare nightsong then Last Light will be destroyed." and then there are things that you can decide and interpret on your own such as how your Tav/Durge fare after the last battle, their background, their family, and how their romance with companions play out

There are dialogues or scenes that hinted the future but at the same time there are several options and each dialogue option will lead to a different universe such as whatever you encourage Wyll to be the blade of avernus or becoming a Duke

What irritated me is that there's people who doesn't like his ascension romance, and they be like "Well I don't like this romance and i don't like him now, so I see your Tav/Durge WILL NEVER BE HAPPY WITH HIM AND IT IS A FACT!" NO, THAT IS NOT HOW IT IS WORK!

You cannot enforce your own narrative perspective into other people's. "What about the 'freedom' dialogue in patch 5?! If you clash with Astarion he will-" like I said each dialogue choice lead to a branching multiverse, just because one person have a conflict with ascended astarion doesn't mean my Tav who is very devoted to him have the same problem or will not be happy

Also, patch 5 confirmed the theory that Astarion turned his lover into a bride/groom instead of regular spawn. If you chose a dialogue option that hinted Tav/Durge feel trapped and doubted if they are truly flourishing, then Astarion will say something like (I'm paraphrasing here) "Well, I give you everything! And I will make sure that you live your best life, even if you don't appreciate it!"

A bride/groom has an emotional and mental link with their creator, if Tav/Durge is not happy then Ascended Astarion will feel unhappy as well. Mind you my Tav (Astaroth) doesn't say he feels trapped, he said that he is happy with Astarion and grateful to share everything with him and then Astarion said that he is blessed to be with Astaroth as well then he also said:

"I may have power, but it would be nothing without you. You complete me."

I don't do Karlach romance, and although I have my own thoughts that if Astaroth romanced her (tbh the guy is gay so he has to be bi/pan in alternate universe) in the end he will feel a bit disappointed with being trapped in hell, doesn't mean I have the rights to ENFORCE that Karlach/Tav romance in general will be unhappy and tragic just because of MY OWN interpretation...

People also shouldn't enforce their own choice for Astarion as

"THE TRUE AND CORRECT CHOICE FOR ASTARION AND IF YOU DISAGREE WITH ME YOU ARE DELUSIONAL AND DUMB"

#bg3 #ask #bg 3 analysis #baldur gate 3 #baldur's gate romance #baldur's gate 3 #baldur's gate iii #astarion #tav #ascendant astarion #astarion x durge #astarion x tav #dnd #ascended astarion #gale of waterdeep #gale dekarios #wyll #god gale

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