#anti targ restoration

[spacerockfloater]

Cersei Lannister & Rhaenyra Targaryen:

Are forced to marry someone they don’t love, so they find solace in the arms of a family member and commit incest

Seduce members of the Royal Guard

Have their husbands murdered because they didn’t like them

Have three bastard kids

Commit atrocities to claim the Iron Throne

Betray their allies when they feel threatened

Rule with fire and blood

Live in constant paranoia so they murder innocent servants whom they believe will betray them, even if said betrayal would be a direct consequence of the way they treat their subjects

Are hated by the people

and lets us not forget the -

But no, please go ahead and tell me all about how Rhaenyra is this feminist icon who has the divine right to rule over hundreds of thousands of people because her daddy said so, therefore if I don’t support her I’m a misogynist.

#house of the dragon #house targaryen #team green #hotd #anti rhaenyra targaryen #pro team green #anti targ stans #anti targ restoration #anti rhaenyra stans #game of thrones #got #asoif/got #cersei lannister #house lannister #hotd critical #anti team black #the hypocrisy #the audacity #performative feminism #anti daemyra #anti daemon targaryen

[rise-my-angel]

I think its funny that technically Jon has "the blood of Old Valyria" in him as well. But if you told him that as if it meant something, you know Jon would dismiss it entierly as unimportant, and that he does not give a single shit about it. Being Valyrian is so integral to someone like Danaerys or really any mainstream Targaryeans identity.

Then you have Jon Snow whose just like "I have things to do, I don't care" literally anytime something tries to convince Jon hes special. He's the opposite of everything Valyrians stand for and it would be so funny if hes the only one with Targaryean blood to survive, so that the last living relic of the ancient Valyrian Freehold is stuck inside the most grouchy, anti prophecy Northerner known to man.

#game of thrones #a song of ice and fire #asoiaf #jon snow #anti targaryen #anti targ restoration #anti targ stans #anti daenerys targaryen #those last 2 are just to cover my butt idk what targ/dany stans consider slander these days im just trying to be funny here

[sad-hippie]

I can't understand how anyone could look at the Storming of the Dragonpit - the greatest act of courage to ever be seen in Westeros - and despise the smallfolk for it.

The bravery, the discontentment, the hopelessness for their own future, and yet, the undying hope for the chance of liberation that would push those who suffer the most from the vicious wars for a metal chair that is meaningless, to finally say - Enough.

To risk being burned alive so that their children won't be. Knowing that the chance for failure is tremendous and nevertheless trying. Because they have to. Because enough is enough. Because no one is safe, not even their own. Because there is no other way. Because the Targaryens will always resort to this. They will always resort to Fire and Blood.

The rule of the dragons must come to an end.

And to look at the greatest act of revolution against the Iron Throne and think it anything else but justified, earned, bought and payed for with their own blood. That anyone would find it in their hearts to pity the dragons, that are nothing more than weapons of mass destruction is so contrary to the spirit of the series that I wonder if people know what they're reading/watching at all...

#storming of the dragonpit #anti targaryen #anti targ restoration #asoiaf #hotd #the shepherd #the burning knight

[ghostofashina]

welcome to asoiaf fandom

you want:

- nice theories and deep analysis

you receive:

- neonazi power fantasy about pure blood supremacy

#anti targaryen #anti targ restoration #asoiaf

[atopvisenyashill]

how many times do i have to see “you’re a slavery apologist for disliking dany” before someone actually gives a good answer to “so why is dany allowed to profit from slavery & keep slaves herself”

the answer is “i will be waiting until i am dead and buried.”

#the vs tag…..omg. so many people going ‘if you hate dany you’re anti slavery’ so my dislike of dany comes from her being a slaver #and her best friend being a slaver himself. that’s what my issue is with her. what is your answer to that. #anti targ restoration #anti dany stans #i don’t even hate her i’m actually quite fond!!!! she’s really funny & complex but she is not smart. and she’s too angry. #also SHE KEEPS SLAVES.

[irintican]

it would be too simplistic to have daenerys targaryen save westeros as its “rightful” queen. ignoring that her family was uprooted and her claim is weak, and given her track record in various places such as qarth and slaver’s bay, i think she is not a benevolent ruler. she scoffs at counsel and ruling, however, i do think that she is the ultimate villain. the tyrant who believes she is righteous and good is such a great trope and it fits her like a glove. she has three dragons that are uncontrollable which remains terrifying to her enemies. she enforces what she thinks is right, not for the good of her “children.” forget the savior princess trope and explore daenerys for what she is: bloodthirsty as the rest of them.

#anti daenerys targaryen #i do love her character but just to be safe. #anti targaryen restoration #asoiaf #a song of ice and fire #anti targ restoration

[gwenllian-in-the-abbey]

Is there anything good (positive achievement) about the Valyrian/ghiscarian empires? I feel GRRM didn't bother giving them nuanced and interesting history beside mass slavery, rape and genocide, esp the ghiscarians they are mash up of the all the racist oriental tropes you can think of

Hi anon, this is a really good question. I think you can look at it two ways.

On the one hand, if we're analyzing the books from a literary perspective, GRRM's portrayal of the entire continent of Essos is pretty Orientalist and doesn't hold up that well. And we can blame this to some extent on GRRM being a white boomer who clearly did not think all that deeply about the stereotypes he was playing into when he created his "exotic" eastern continent. 90s fantasy was rife with this stuff (even my beloved Robin Hobb is not completely immune-- I'm looking at you, Chalcedeans), and at the time Orientalism was, much like critical race theory or decolonization, a grad school level concept, unless you ran in activist circles. You didn't have Tumblr and Twitter and TikTok and Youtube generating Discourse, you had to actively seek out different perspectives. And ex-hippie liberal white boomers often assumed that they already had the right perspectives, that they knew what traps to avoid, and so you'd get 90s SFF authors thinking they were very cleverly subverting these tropes by going, "I know, I'll have an intensely misogynistic culture of desert dwelling nomads who have harems and slaves but I'll make them white." It was pretty bleak. Luckily for all of us, fantasy has come a long way since then.

And yeah, once you see the Orientalism in ASOIAF, you can't unsee it. Lys is basically the fantasy version of the "pleasure planet" trope, the Dothraki are a stereotype of the Mongol armies without any of the many positive contributions the Molgols made, Qarth is like the Coleridge poem come to life with people riding camels with jeweled saddles and wearing tiger skins, with its women baring one breast and it's sophisticated assassin's guild, and Mereen has its pyramids. The entire continent is brimming with spices and jewels and pleasure houses and people saying "Your Magnificence." It is also a place of blood magic and dragons and Red Gods and shadowlands. It is everything exciting and "exotic," juxtaposed against what appears to most readers to be very mundane--septas and pseudocatholicism and maesters in the citadel. So yeah, it's an Orientalist's fantasy world, and the point of all this is not necessarily to cast it as evil per se, but to cast it as "Other" (and to be clear, Orientalism is harmful and GRRM deserves the criticism he gets for leaning into stereotypes). Valyria and the Valyrians are certainly included in that-- they are explicitly Other as foreign born ruling family in Westeros, and they are treated that way both in-world and by the narrative.

The question then becomes, although GRRM's depictions of Essos lean heavily and inelegantly into Orientalist tropes, why did he create these worlds the way he did? Why is Valyria an "Other" and what significance does it have to the story? And I think that some of this is GRRM's shorthand for something magical that is lost and forgotten and fading away, just like Valyria itself is in the memories of the Targaryen family. It is the Xanadu of Coleridge's Kubla Khan, not just the East viewed from the West, but the past viewed from the present, a nostalgic yearning for a place that only ever existed in the imagination. When the narrative does visit these places in person, rather than telling us about them secondhand, they become ugly and brutal, the jeweled facade hiding a rot underneath. In ASOIAF we have Dany ripping that facade off of Meereen and Yunkai, but she idealizes her own Targaryen heritage, and that is not insignificant, and as readers, we are invited to idealize it right along with her, in spite of plenty of hints that perhaps we should not (like the aforementioned slavery). We even hear Astapori and Yunkish slavers speaking to Dany echo sentiments about the even older Ghiscari empire, also lost, "Ours is the blood of ancient Ghis, whose empire was old when Valyria was yet a squalling child." Old Ghis and the Valyrians who conquered them are both long gone at this point, and yet their descendants are clinging to the legacies of cultures that would be wholly foreign to both of them. Because if Valyria is Xanadu, the Old Valyrians and Old Ghiscari are also Ozymandias, the mighty who have fallen, their once grand civilizations nothing but forgotten ruins. The Targaryens don't yet realize that they are that "half-sunk shattered visage," that they are yearning for something that is gone and never returning, something they never really knew in the first place.

Westeros is not immune to this either. I think it's a consistent theme that GRRM plays with is the ways which the past is glorified and distorted and romanticized. Even in a meta-sense, his entire medieval world is, in many ways, a half-remembered medieval fantasy, the medieval world as imagined by people who read Ivanhoe, rather than a medieval world as actually was. And GRRM simultaneously presents this romanticized world alongside the brutality of the past (and to drive that point home, George's medieval world is much more brutal than the real medieval world was), and so he asks us, just like Dany must ask herself at some point, is the past really all that romantic? Or are we simply yearning for something unnamable and Other? And if we yearn for that, why?

On the other hand, from an in-world perspective, if you are Westerosi, are there any redeeming qualities to Valyrian culture? And I think we can answer that question by asking ourselves, is there anything salvageable from the past, even if the past was terrible? Even if what we perceive of Old Valyria wavers between a horrific empire based on conquest and slavery, and an idealized homeland full of magical dragonriders, depending on who is doing the telling, if we accept it as a fully fleshed out world, then I think we can remember no cultures are monoliths. Old Valyria had art, architecture, fashion, music, literature, and I like to imagine that there were good freeholders, perhaps even Valyrian versions of the Roman Stoics and the Cynics, who raised moral objections to slavery. Certainly the Valyrian "freeholder" government itself, a kind of proto-democracy, similar to that of Athens, was innovative for its particular time and place, even if it was not as democratic as our modern democracies are, and that model of government is replicated throughout Essos, where strict hereditary monarchy seems to be relatively uncommon. Valyria also had a great deal of religious freedom, which persists throughout Essos as well. And as with any empire, it's important to keep in mind that the ruling class made up only a small percentage of actual Valyria, and we know there were Valyrians who were not dragonlords but just normal people, going about their lives who had nothing to do with the atrocities committed, and those people were telling stories, creating art, writing songs, and producing culture too. So I think, tying back into how GRRM uses Valyria and Essos in his narrative, we do not have to discard the past entirely, nor do in-world Targaryens, but it's the romanticization that's the problem, and I think that's something that both in-world characters and readers are cautioned against.

#asks #old valyria #grrm #asoiaf #orientalism in asoiaf #essos #house targaryen #anti targ restoration #grrm critical #anti targaryen

[sayruq]

do you think the t@rgs are colonizers?

Yes, they were in Valyria, again in Westeros (after Aegon got done interfering with Essos politics) and of course the repeated attempts to conquer Dorne

#Anonymous #anti targaryen #anti targ restoration #song of ice and fire #game of thrones

[spacerockfloater]

In the show, Rhaenyra is just as weak and self centred as Viserys is.

The fact that she repeats her father’s mistake, remarrying and producing legitimate children who would overshadow her chosen yet questionable heir, is so stupid.

Viserys desires another woman and male heirs, therefore he gives into the temptation of obtaining Alicent and having male children, without realising that by doing this he’s making it difficult for Rhaenyra, a girl, to keep the throne.

Rhaenyra desires her uncle above everything else, therefore she gives into the temptation of obtaining Daemon and having children with him, without realising that by doing this she’s making it difficult for Jacaerys, a bastard, to keep the throne.

The dance would have happened anyway, maybe it could be postponed for one generation had Otto not been so eager to chase the throne, but it would still happen.

And let’s be real: had Viserys not chosen Alicent, he’d pick another girl, like Laena, whose father would want the exact same thing Otto wanted: his blood on the throne. Corlys admits that’s what he’s after. Anyone would do the same thing. All the great houses are ambitious. The issue is that Viserys and Rhaenyra kept making stupid choices that made it easier for them to be undermined and then they cry about it.

#house of the dragon #team green #anti rhaenyra targaryen #hotd #house hightower #pro team green #alicent hightower #anti hotd #anti targaryen #anti house targaryen #pro house hightower #targtowers #anti rhaenyra stans #anti daemyra #pro alicent stans #pro alicent hightower #pro aemond targaryen #anti targ restoration #anti targ stans

[rise-my-angel]

Sometimes targ stans just baffle me. Saw someone making the claim people say the lords wouldnt accept Jacaerys because hes a bastard and went "uh no they wouldnt say anything cus he has fucking dragons."

Like

You do know that's worse right?

You do realize being bigoted against a bastard is nowhere near as bad as not being objected to rule because you could burn alive entire cities in seconds right? You do realize having dragons is not actually an argument for why someone should be King right?

Someone tell Jon Snow hes been insecure about being a bastard for no reason, turns out no one would care as long as he could destroy cities and burn people alive with a dragon.

Please listen to yourselves talk for once.

#game of thrones #a song of ice and fire #asoiaf #anti targaryen #anti targ stans #anti targ restoration #hotd #house of the dragon #anti team black

[radicalsansa]

I have theory TB fans are just hardcore dany fans who champion the "i don't why jon chose the Starks over his family??? He was a TARGARYEN!" Take. When he was literally called "the bastard of winterfell" he was an acknowledged (not legitimatized but acknowledged.) bastard of house stark for years. Dany, the last Targaryen and head of her "house" literally told him she didn't acknowledge him, to his face. Like, thats the only way the cognitive dissonance makes sense.

YESS!!! Ofc Jon is going to take the people he was raised by over some random aunt who doesn't give a shit about him (also dad's side which is always a bit iffy)

I've noticed that a lot of TB stans are also targ stans whereas most TG stans do not like the targ family in anyway whatsoever.

How dare I say this but i think even Dany was more politically savvy than Rhaen*ra (I'm only on ACOK qnd I haven't seen GOT) given she actually tried? TB likes to say that the realm would be in better hands with Rhaen*ra on the throne when it's so obvious it wouldn't. Rhaen*ra couldn't give less of a shit about politics given that during her obvious big shot she just fucked off with her groomer uncle and her bastard children.

Obviously, Jon would choose House Stark over House incestuous dragon

#ask #asoiaf #hotd #anti team black #pro team green #jon snow #anti rhaenyra stans #anti rhaenyra targaryen #anti targaryen #anti daemon targaryen #anti targ stans #anti targ restoration #anti daenerys targaryen

[atopvisenyashill]

thoughts on unsullied

i think the reason it takes so long for dany to realize “slavery bad” as well as her continued weirdness surrounding slavery is because dany “learns” through her emotional attachments and then doesn’t really dig in anymore after the “lesson.”

she identifies with the unsullied despite never having been a slave so she sees their slavery as the same as her mistreatment. i think the dissonance between how she sees the dothraki (mostly as same faced servants) and how she sees the unsullied and meereenese (as her loving and useful children) is because she can relate to the unsullied emotionally in a way she can’t to the dothraki. her bloodriders were never slaves so while she’s fond of them for their loyalty to her she doesn’t love or relate to them the way she does Jorah, Barristan, Missandei, or Grey Worm. Irri & Jhiqui were slaves but they accept their fate without a fight; Irri & Jhiqui are mentioned to be the daughters of Khals that Drogo defeated. They are very dothraki in that they don’t try to break free from their enslavement; Dany associates strength with violence so often that I think she looks down on them for not having her same thirst for freedom, nor Doreah’s interest in stories, nor Jorah’s Westerosi heritage. The Unsullied are different; like Dany, they experience terrible violence through no fault of their own and like Dany, their worth is tied to their name (Unsullied vs Targaryen) and their ability to do great violence.

Therefore, unraveling the institution of slavery should be as easy as her own freedom - standing up to Drogo, killing Viserys, and gaining her dragons saved her so surely killing the masters of astapor with her dragons will save the Unsullied. of course, it’s so much more complex than that! Not everyone is given gifts of food and clothes just for being who they are. as queen she has the job of ruling but that’s not really a paid position and she doesn’t even think of how to pay the Unsullied or anyone in Meereen.

this wine of courage…it seems that while Unsullied who have already been cut have been on this for a long time and likely don’t feel pain, but the unsullied from astapor aren’t just the fully trained ones - dany explicitly buys and takes the young boys with her as well. i’m wondering if it’s going to come up once she leaves Meereen or if it was just another “look how dehumanizing the Unsullied training is” thing.

it’s this passage that i think convinces Dany to do something riskier than just buy them but sack Astapor. I don’t think it’s something that occurred to her before she talks to Missandei partially because she’s been so surrounded by slavery for so many years that it clearly doesn’t occur to her that slavery is awful. Dany is impressed with Missandei’s ability to translate on the fly & work under pressure so when Missandei opens up quickly it makes Dany question her decision to buy the Unsullied even more.

Then Quaithe makes her worry about getting to Westeros fast enough with the worst advice in the world. I think - just me guessing - that Quaithe chooses now to message her because Dany is weighing her options. Kraznys suggests they sack smaller cities and send the captives back to him to train into more Unsullied. While I think it’s unlikely Dany would have sent the Unsullied back, I do think there’s evidence that Dany is weighing the idea of sacking several towns with her Dothraki anyway.

Whether she means to attack more slaver cities to conscript the slave soldiers into her army or whether she’s thinking of other cities, to me it seems the idea is already there to sack a city. It’s only Missandei mentioning her brothers that makes Dany realize she doesn’t like the deal she’s made because there’s a human face and emotional connection there, then Quaithe makes her nervous about the long road ahead of her.

but the sack…that’s the dragon in her. she might have left by killing the unsullied masters, using her dragons as a threat to allow anyone who wants to be freed and come with her. instead she leaves astapor a ruin. again, it’s because of her emotional reactions. she’s not actually breaking any wheels or ending slavery; it’s the same as when she takes the lhazareen women into her personal slave khalasar. Better to serve Dany than serve an evil person, no matter if they don’t want to serve anyone at all.

they are the dragon’s now. bought and paid for.

#rani liveblogs asoiaf #anti daenerys targaryen #anti targ restoration #daenerys is old valyria risen again #daenerys as orestes #her first few chapters make me deeply sad #daenerys of the dothraki

[disneyprincessbuffyannesummers]

GRRM: *gives D&D the broad strokes of how ASOAIF will end*

Some-people: THIS IS NOT THE TRUE ENDING! BLAH BLAH BLAH! BLAH DRAGONS! BLAH!

#anti targ restoration #anti targaryen #anti targ stans #anti dany stans #anti daenerys #anti house targaryen

[martellspear]

— power went out and I ran out of things to think this afternoon;

— this is a anti targaryen restoration post, be warned :)

One of the most surprising things in the entire ASOIAF books is simply HOW did that family manage to be around for over 300 years. I’ve never seen so many individuals being so dense – of course, we have exceptions – but ?? Perhaps that’s what you get for the inbreed, the stupidity gene remains and grows strong and turns into a parasite that eats brains.

Let’s start with the C trio; A united the Seven Kingdoms because he thought unity was the right path to defeat the Long Night, which is great, but then he did NOTHING to actually prepare for it ?? The Wall was built by the Starks. In F&B we see that, Targ after Targ, the prophecy has little impact on how they conduct things; I’d love to say something like: fine, let’s blame it on time and wars (which, they caused) but ?? your ancestors' most important words about saving the place you, and your descendants will, live just do not carry enough crucial significance for them to be carefully passed down to the next generation?

Then, we have R. I will admit that when I first read the books I liked him - and although I still find him an interesting character, I cannot let go of the idea of how obtuse he is (it’s deeper than that in his case but I’m annoyed) -. Since I’m venting, let me just say that it completely baffles me how some still view RL as a love story; that man was OBSESSED with the prophecy, he drastically changed his lifestyle for it, but he’d abandon everything for love? And then… proceed to – likely – hide from his lOvE that her loved ones are dead (his dad killed them) while keeping said person in a place that, regarding both climate and social aspects, is detrimental for her. Furthermore, to defy and insult three powerful Houses because he fell in love with someone he saw a few times?

Yes, love can make people take routes they wouldn’t normally take, but the cost was too high for it not to be “means to an end”.

Coming back to my original thoughts: I believe that Targs are unfit to rule – if you want evidence, you can literally just open F&B, any page will do – and the couple good monarchs that family produced doesn’t make up for all the damage they caused since they sat foot in Westeros. They feel entitled to a land that doesn’t belong to them and are saviors because the Gods said they are ??

It's a funny concept when you contrast it with how the series ended: Cersei on the Throne, Arya defeating the Night King and the two last Targs with awful endings (that’s martelldoo): one dead and the other exiled.

Anyway, I just wanted to vent because the thought of a Targ restoration pissed me off this afternoon – it validates every horrendous thing that happened to those considered “casualties” and puts these people in that obnoxious concept we see in succession: no real person involved. But since “we” have the power to save the world, it was worth it and everything it valid, RIGHT?–

#anti targaryen restoration #anti targ restoration #anti targaryen #anti rhaegar targaryen #anti rhaegar #you have no idea how much free time I have in my hands until february #asoiaf

[thesunfyre4446]

Lmao House Hightower, an ancient house. They are literally one of the first houses in Westeros and have lasted for thousands of years and is more powerful in terms of wealth, influence and military strength than their overlords of the region. The other houses of the Reach don’t even hate the Hightowers, neither does the whole of Westeros. Their house has a good reputation despite the Dance and are known to basically mind their business and prosper behind the scenes. It’s the fans of HOTD that hate them, not even book fans.

The Targaryens and their superior blood on the other hand is despised throughout Westeros. They brought their house to the brink of extinction many times within 300 years until they succeeded. All that’s left is a bastard who doesn’t even want the superior Dragon’s blood, he would rather be a Stark/Snow 😭

What does that person think of Rhaenyra’s sons? The Vale has the highest percentage of Andal blood in all of Westeros and Aemma was an Arryn. Their bio Dad Harwin is both Andal and First men blooded. I’m no geneticist but wouldn’t they have less Valyrian blood than the Targtowers?

exactly!

"The Hightowers of Oldtown were an ancient and noble family, of impeccable lineage; there could be no possible objection to the king’s choice of bride."

what more do these people want?

for all their dragons and "superior blood", when GOT starts the targs are completely ruined. they're hated and NO ONE wants them back in power. meanwhile the hightower are sitting high in their tower still a powerful and respected house. ;)

this person will prob say that rhaenyra's sons are legally velaryons so they legally have more valyrian blood then the targtowers lol

#house hightower #anti targ restoration #anti targ stans #house of the dragon #hotd

[sayruq]

I'm cackling at some of the Targ stans on Twitter freaking out about rumors that some of the dragonseeds might be bastards of Baelon, Viserys and Daemon's dad, saying things about HotD like "fuck this show if it turns out Baelon had bastards!" They're acting like Baelon and Alyssa had the greatest love story! And it's been a long time since I read F&B but what was so great about Baelon? Or his relationship with Alyssa?

lmaooooo there's no way there are legitimate Baelon/Alyssa shippers but then again, they're the only incestuous relationship seemingly without any issue

Aegon and Rhaenys had infidelity rumours (that I actually believe)

Aenys and Alyssa aren't this great love story and also they're not siblings

Jaehaerys and Alysanne became abusive

Rhaenyra and Daemon was very dysfunctional by end and also involved infidelity

Aegon II and Helaena were not exactly in love

Aegon IV and Naerys was very abusive, Naerys and Aemon is only romantic I'd you ignore that the fact he put his duty to Aegon above Naerys' wellbeing

Jaehaerys II and Shaera were responsible for Aerys II's marriage to Rhaella, etc

So Baelon and Alyssa are the sole incestuous relationship where the couple seemingly loved each other. If you love House Targaryen for all the incest, this is probably the ideal Targaryen ship, nevermind that it's plagued by the same issue of grooming (wanting to marry your own brother isn't natural. You have to be groomed into believing your only role in life is to be your brother's spouse).

This is actually so funny. Though, I am a little bummed there won't be any ambiguity with the dragonseeds.

#Anonymous #anti targaryen #anti targ stans #song of ice and fire #anti targ restoration