#and the use of the word PROSHIP when they mean DEAD DOVE | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

monstersinthecosmos · 2 years

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I don't have time to get into this right now and I'm happy to expand on it later when I have a minute to sit down, but: Do not give your money to zines runs by antis.

Do not participate in zines run by antis.

Do not trust people who have never participated in your fandom until they show up trying to make money off of you.

ZINE DRAMA is not ~fandom drama~. Zines are independent small businesses. Any time money is exchanged, you risk sharing your legal name. Any time physical media is purchased to be mailed, you share your home address.

Do not trust antis with your personal information. It is not safe.

I really try not to engage in drama and bullshit on here because I think it's irresponsible and wastes everyones time, but when this type of money and personal safety is involved I think it's absolutely crucial to be aware of it. This is not drama, it's very basic safety.

Especially in this fucking fandom, with its history. There is a reason we have not had zines, and they would know that if they actually spent time here before trying to monetize your work. I say this due to their handling of it and also in case fandom folks around here don't have zine experience and don't know what red flags to look for, since we haven't had any. There is a mature and responsible way to navigate this new territory and this is absolutely not it.

#source: i have head-modded a zine LOL #believe me when I tell you how much personal information I have access to of an entire fandom #if i have time later we can also talk about how racism is allowed but !gross sex stuff! is not lmfao #and the use of the word PROSHIP when they mean DEAD DOVE #even if not ill intentioned just very unprepared and i would caution against investing your time and money

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makibaras · 10 days

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Fiction ≠ reality and fiction CAN impact reality are two statements that can and should co-exist. I am a SHIP AND LET SHIP and YOUR KINK IS NOT MY KINK AND THATS OKAY anti-harassment proshipper as much as the next proshipper, but there is some nuance that can get lost through years old discourse.

Antis believe whole heartedly that one can’t exist, which they do use fiction to influence reality by justifying the abuse and indoctrination of others to save the valor of the pixels on screen, never minding the fact that they are perpetuating real harm to victims and minors alike. Antis have told victims that they hope they relive their trauma, no matter what the trauma is (even if it’s CSA). They use fiction to influence reality, absolutely discrediting what Proshippers stand for and even bastardizing the original meaning of proship (which means anti harassment, ship what you want) to “problematic ship” when a lot of proshippers are uncomfortable with themes that are dark in nature.

I’ve also seen where proshippers themselves, the no-limits proshippers, justify writing and drawing RPF of irl minors or perpetrate real bigotry/real propaganda with the whole “fiction ≠ reality” which can be a dangerous argument in itself.

These are thankfully few and far between because most rational people can attest that this is bad and not a thing that should happen.

Basically the nuance is fiction can influence reality when it does. Writing and drawing an incest or underage ship from an anime doesn’t fall into this category. Ship and let ship & YKINMKATO doesn’t fall into this category, most of the time, unless these things are genuinely harmful such as someone using fiction to justify irl bigotry or to sexualize irl minors. The key word is “irl” as well

It takes a dumb person to think fiction is reality and it also takes an equally dumb person to lose the nuance in these kinds of arguments, i say as someone who does enjoy dark fic and dark ship (in regards to the dove is dead an rotting for me)

#txt #proship safe #proshippers please interact #proship

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viaviv124 · 2 months

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Fanfiction Commissions OPEN!!

[UPDATE REGARDING SETTING COMMISSIONS]

Hi! So I've decided i'll try selling fanfictions because why not, worth a try!

Fandoms I'll do:

Undertale

Cult of the Lamb

Hazbin Hotel/Helluva Boss

Danganronpa

Heaven Officials Blessing

Captain Laserhawk

Hamilton

Super Mario

Black Butler

Dear Evan Hansen

Be More Chill

Heathers

Stardew Valley

Anything else i'm familiar with, just ask!

Content I'll do:

Shipping

Angst

Fluff

Crackfic

Hurt/Comfort

Hurt/No Comfort

Lime

Anything that isn't in my don'ts list, really.

Content I won't do:

Proships (Pedophilia, Incest)

Romanticised Abuse

Real People (OCs are fine, i mean primarily stuff like celebraties, youtubers etc)

Anything that makes me uncomfortable (will be discussed when necessary)

Content that's case by case/has requirements:

Dead Dove Do Not Eat: depends if the content makes me uncomfortable or not, but generally I'm up for anything.

Smut/NSFW: i won't post it and please do not post it either. Keep it for private use. I also won't do Non-Con, Necrophilia and other kinks and fetishes that make me uncomfortable.

Gore: bear in mind i'm not really good at it. I'll decline if it gets too extreme for me. Please keep it out of sex.

Please remember that I always have the right to say no, regardless what the lists say.

When the commission is done I'll always ask you first before I post it. It's something I wrote for you so you also decide what's done with it. (again, except NSFW.)

Payment:

SFW: 5€ per 500 words

NSFW: 10€+ per 500 words

NSFW fics can be self determined if you want to pay the initial prize or more.

Payment will occur before I'll send you the finished fic.

Please pay via Ko-fi

I will send you drafts per paragraph once I wrote it to see if you'd like anything changed. You can change stuff up to 3 times per paragraph, afterwards there's a 1€ fee for each change. Please be specific with your prompt and with what you want. If I completely misunderstood your request please tell me and I'll rewrite without additional fees.

Fanfiction Examples: Ao3

I will be writing whenever I can but please bear in mind that I'm very busy throughout the week.

Feel free to ask questions whenever you have them! You can always reach me here and on my Instagram!

If you cannot afford a fanfic but want to Support me regardless, that's totally fine! Reblog and spread the word! I appreciate that just as much!

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cynthrey · 5 months

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i think you’re missing the fundamental fact that scott KNEW about the content ecto posted about.

if you read the doc from ecto, he was given a list of warnings before he followed and supported ectos blog, to which he AGREED

he absolutely was saving face by taking back his support and pretending like he didn’t know

also ecto literally got doxxed directly following the clip of scott retracting support and then when he was told what happened to ecto, told them to get over it as if it was just a bit of normal internet hate

being for/against proship doesn’t matter at this point, it’s basic human decency NOT to dox people. if anyone really cared about it they would have called the bloody police instead rather than putting on such a performance to ruin someone’s career

sorry, i know the original point of your post was about the scott hate and i kind of got off topic, but i have a lot of strong feelings about the situation lol

I perfectly understand having strong feelings on this situation because, yeah, it was a very fucked up mess and thank you for talking about this in a civilized manner. The point on Scott telling Ecto this was just normal internet hate being a bad move on his end and that is basic human decency to not dox someone are actually points that I agree with, and like I've said yeah he should have at least told his audience to not harass Ecto.

But Ecto was already getting doxxed before Scott addressed the situation. Scott addressed the situation on October 9 (even if he doesn't adress who "the artist" is by name, he should had asked his audience to not harass them, even the original account to out Ecto said to not harass them) while Ecto on their document mentions the account ectothrowaway2 on twitter was attempting to find their personal info on the night of the 7th and already getting doxxed on the 8th. (if you meant that the doxxing intensified after Scott's statement then that's a fair point of criticism towards him).

Posting dead dove/don't eat and being a proshipper can overlap on the aspect of dealing with problematic content but they aren't strictly the same. I know people who produce dead dove too might get hate for "condoning problematic content" even when is done from their own trauma or depicting said problematic content in the negative light it deserves. And I agree with the sentiment of not harassing someone of the ships they indulge, but there does come a point where things are not as acceptable (I don't mean by this that past some point is okay to harass someone, just that at some point it becomes something not as justifiable under the lenses of fiction being fiction). Proshipping saddly is a term often used by those who are actually fine with shipping stuff such as underage characters and adults, incest and other problematic dynamics (I myself was not aware of the non-harassing part of the proshipping stance until this situation). What I mean is that they are not 100% mutually inclusive, you can make dead dove content and still think shipping problematic stuff the same way you ship non-problematic stuff is wrong.

Had Ecto mentioned right away they are a proshipper and Scott shown to have no problem with that until this whole situation then he would have absolutely been trying to save face. Ecto themselves mention the user who called them out found their NSFW account through Scott's following list so is not like he kept it a secret that he was following a NSFW artist, especially given the fact Ecto themself would put screenshots of his and Sausage's interactions with their art.

My point on Scott getting so much criticism when he did originally mean to help while Sausage, who was way closer to Ecto than Scott, did nothing yet he hasn't received as much criticism still stands. Sausage has been shouting out Ecto ever since Empires S2 if i recall correctly, they are as known in his community as E. Yet we had no word from him in this whole situation.

Scott deserves criticism for how he acted in this situation, yes, especially when talking to Ecto he should have been more tactful when talking with them in private too. But I don't think the situation is as black and white as him retracting his support for Ecto because it was inconvenient to him. I was disappointed in him too when this first started, him and Sausage, and only retracted my support after actually leaving Ecto messages and comments of support about 2 weeks later when I found out they are a proshipper, and tho I agree (hell even the user who originally called them out agreed this got out of hand) this was too much, I didn't feel comfortable supporting someone who stood for something I don't agree with.

EDIT cuz i realize i got off topic too

Yes, Ecto didnt deserve all this hate and frankly dangerous treatment towards them. Harassing someone to the point to have to be put on a suicide watch and their carreer ruined this way just because on an opinion on how to deal with media is like deciding the best way to deal with a mosquito is launching a nuke at it. If you find out someone indulges in something you don't approve of the best action to take is to block them and, if necessary, report them. Not harassing, not sending death threats, not trying to find where they live, not NOTHING that happened here

Even the person who called Ecto out apologized despite not liking them because this situation was got out of hand. Harassment wasn't justified IN THE SLIGHTLESS AND SHAME ON ANYONE WHO ACTIVELY PARTICIPATED ON THAT BULLSHIT INSTEAD OF BEING MATURE AND SIMPLY BLOCKING THEM

#ecto discourse

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darkxwolf17 · 2 months

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i remember following you at some point when you were arguing with this one proshipper, and at the time i was well... on your side. but lately, i've started thinking.. what's the point of all this discourse?? like... even then, there's a difference between proshipping and comshipping (proshipping- ship and let ship; block and move on) (comship -"complex" shipping; what proshipping in the md and other fandoms are usually confused with) so.. i feel like i've been adopting the proshipping mentality, though i wouldn't call myself a comshipper :] i know you're probably not going to answer this, but what's your full, honest opinion on the pro/anti ship discourse?

EDIT: Proshippers DO NOT INTERACT with this post i dont want you here get out

Hello, thank you for this ask, my opinion on the whole debate is actually more complex than what might be seen. Despite me being very much anti-proship (which I'll get to what that means later), I actually do not consider myself anti-fiction (though some proshippers may disagree with me and call me a "puriteen" or whatever).

Personally, I am in the opinion that the original meaning of dead dove and all that is something i can get behind. Before anyone calls me a proshipper, (I'm not and never will be), let me specify I said the *original* definition. This definition being "okay, there are some things that can be romanticized in fiction that shouldn't be romanticized ever in the real world." By this, I'm mainly meaning toxic relationships (I joke about toxic yuri, and it's because there are some ships that Are toxic i do genuinely enjoy, ie Voll), as well as some other kinks (that I won't get into because this is a safe for work blog that minors follow) that cannot be performed in real life. Fiction is a place to explore these things, and I am fully in support of using it as an outlet for the bizarre and weird.

My issue with proshipping is that, despite what many may claim, nowadays it really is just a fancy word for enjoying drawn csem. I don't care if it's "just fiction." Remember that thing i said earlier about how there are some things that can be romanticized in fiction? Well, children are not and never will be one of them. It is never okay, in ANY universe, to sexualize a child. I will stand by that firmly.

Other things i do not condone being romanticized in fiction is incest, or literal animals. Incest because it's a real thing that is traumatizing just like child abuse, and animals because, well, I hate zoophiles. "But Marven!" you may say. "You're a furry, doesn't your community have a good chunk who draw furry nsfw?" Well, to that I say there is a huge, huge difference between sexualizing an anthropomorphic walking talking consenting creature that is essentially just a human with fur, and a literal dog on four legs. If you can't see the difference between those two, that's your problem.

"But what about trauma? Shouldn't victims be able to express themselves through art?" Why, yes! of course. However, there is a difference between drawing vent art privately in closed circles and posting erotic material featuring children with the intent to arouse publicly. I am in full support of trauma survivors using any method to cope, but forming communities dedicated to drawing and getting off to images of children is not a way to cope. It's illegal! And normalizing terrible behavior, repeating a cycle of abuse.

So yeah, tldr; There are some things in fiction that can be romanticized that shouldn't be romanticized irl. There is some merit to a "Dead dove" label. However, if you do end up calling yourself a proshipper, just know that you will be grouping yourself with some very, very nasty people.

I hope I could be of some help, best of luck to you anon and I urge you, as someone who nearly fell down the proshipping pipeline, to please understand what kinds of people that community holds.

#tw proship mention #tw pedophila mention #tw zoophile mention #tw incest mention

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fancy--that · 8 months

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Rules for thee and not for me, classic hypocrite anti response. You have no idea what you're talking about or what any of the words you're using mean. You get to write what you want because you're only doing it in the good Christian God-fearing Way but no one else can. You're a joke and very uneducated. Proshippers who created Ao3 and fight for anti-censorship regulations paved the way so you can write and share your stories, and you're shitting all over their hard work.

Ao3 is a proship website. Proship is the default anti-censorship stance. You cannot and will never be able to tell what is going on in someone's mind when they read or write, nor are thought crimes real. Your dead dove fiction is not any more or less moral than anyone else's, you're not special, you're not the messiah. And you definitely don't have the right to pass judgment on anyone else. Your self righteousness is truly disgusting.

wow. First of all thank god i'm not religious in any way shape or form but i'm sorry that someone talking with some sense made you think that theres no way an actual human being with morals and opinions could write this no they must be religious theres just no way a non religious person wouldn't condone rape, pedophilia and incest!!! get real

Also i never said i'm the only one who could write that kind of content, many people have and i've read my fair share of dead dove fics that touch on those dark topics, the point a lot of you seem to be missing is the CONTEXT portion. its part of a broader story, it isn't romanticized, it isn't normalized it isn't treated as something cute or funny or romantic. It's just written with mindfulness and within the right context. It's treated as the traumatic, disgusting, depraved thing that it is.

also like i'm not telling people to not write it in the first place at all? Yes ao3 was made by pro-shippers but also like you have to be mindful of what you're consuming out there on the internet. I would never read a pro-ship fic that deals with these topics but also i'm not going to go bashing it in the comments or anything, i just keep scrolling however i find it very telling of your character that all i did was make a post saying that i don't agree with pro-shipping and therefore won't write these certain requests given to me by pro-shippers and suddenly i'm the bad guy for having an opinion. "What do you mean you won't write my father x son fic? You stupid anti you're such a hypocrite" i mean get real.

Also my original post wasn't particularly mean in any way i just said i didn't like pro-shippers and wouldn't write that content, additionally i also gave personal reasons on why i wouldn't write that type of content. Again am i supposed to ignore my own reasons for why i won't engage in it just cause the pro-shippers might get mad at me? I don't think so.

Proshippers made ao3.....thanks proshippers i owe you my....life ig? idrk what i'm supposed to say? should i bow or something??? "hey so we like problematic ships and problematic and often dark undertones in our fics but we romanticize it and we made this website to share those stories and then we're gonna get mad when people mention that these ships are problematic"

You're right i don't know whats going on in someone's mind when they write. What I do know is I have personally seen a lot of adult pro-shippers writing and drawing content of minors and adults who still interact with minors on their platform. I know that if someone were to tell me "read this fic i wrote" and it was romanticizing incest and abuse i'd be uneasy that they were so proud of it. And i know as someone who again has a partner who age regresses, who has a community of people whose ages i don't know, someone who regularly interacts with children for work and likely pre-teens and teens online because ofc people who aren't 18+ are going to look gor this content, i couldn't write it. Not with all of those factors. My own personal reasons for not liking proshipping and refusing to write proship content is not less important than your need to justify why shipping things with rape, incest and pedophilia is okay.

also i would never want anyone to treat me like some savior here to bless the internet. I used my own story as an example of writing these heavy topics in the right context, i never said i was the only one whos ever done it right or whatever, im explaining how i know someone will say "well you've written it before look at this story!" that isn't proshipping so your argument is invalid.

also i can judge as i please its called being a human and if you romanticize rape, incest and pedophilia i will not consume your content, i will not make new content for you and yes i will judge you.

best regards

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fevers-and-emeto-oh-my · 4 months

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The Joeys: Favorite Anti-Gifted Nicknames

username related: "this fevers user" and "fevers blah blah blah"

from the most angry paragraph: "dirty skank fatherless motherless unloved and unlovable creature" and "shit eating cunt" (the paragraph then went on to make HORRIFYING statements about Chernobyl and the Holocaust)

most amusing: "ugly ass rat 🐀" (emoji included)

most uncreative (uncreative adjectives included): "crazy freak," "braindead," "delusional," "disgusting."

favorite sentences: "I hope you get lobotomized at this point" and "if someone wrote a fic about you being r@ped you'd be uncomfortable would you not?" (not when you censor the word raped. and not when i have a rape kink)

most uncreative sentences: "y'all deserve to go to PRISON" and "fiction doesn't mean you're immediately stripped of ethics and morals, ik your pussy ass wouldn't admit this irl" (i have. my friends don't give a shit)

most baffling: "also calling people who are saying that’s things are making them uncomfortable ableist really shows the kind of person you are" (NOWHERE did i call anyone ableist. i simply stated i am a survivor and survivors use dark fic to cope which is endorsed by many therapists) and "Hey you reblogged my [monsterfucking] art and I'm anti-proship and wish you people would be institutionalized" (this person proceeded to unblock me to send an ask explaining that bc they want to fuck las plagas and werewolves it's not dead dove. when i explained that that is bestiality which is indeed dead dove and content proshippers protect, their response was to reblog and say "Besties is it bestiality to want to fuck a human man with tentacles for a head?")

Biggest fan: an anti! assigned biggest fan by tumblr, congrats <3

#antis #joey jabbers #the joeys

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ryukyuin · 12 days

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byi/rules!!

1.) BASIC DNI CRITERIA

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2.) Anti-Proship

Loving reminder that proship means that you don’t harass people over fiction. It’s only a stance on harassment and censorship, and it doesn’t mean you have to like what I do or that I personally approve and enjoy what everyone else does! Quote from fanlore:

"The pro in pro-shipper means for, to contrast with the anti in anti-shipper (anti meaning against). However, possibly due to Fannish Osmosis, in some parts of fandom, the pro in pro-shipper has come to be understood as short for problematic instead.[5][6][7][8] Due to this new definition, many fans (mainly on Twitter) started to insert proshippers in their DNI lists because they do not want any type of contact with problematic ships These fans may also use the term "proship" as a noun to refer to the problematic ship that the proshipper allegedly supports. Others have incorrectly osmosed the word proshipper to be synonymous with pedophile."

So like. Yeah! Dances around. I don't fw most "problematic ships" but I just need pookies to know the actual definition of the term they are using before they start rallying hate mobs.

Fiction DOES affect reality, and you should be aware enough of that to cultivate your own online experience and use the function of blocking/filtering tags, blocking people, and your own common sense to make sure that you stay safe and everyone has fun!!

(Also if ppl block me bc they misunderstood I will scream and wail and sob /lh, DM/toss an ask if you have any questions!!)

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3.) If you can't follow the Three Laws of Fandom/think Dark Media/Dead Dove: Do not Eat/Whump/Yandere enjoyers are normalizing what they are writing about, also shoo. Not the place for you.

I feel like this explains itself, esp since I kinda talked about it above. Please cultivate and foster the online experience you want, follow proper online social etiquette, and realize that just because I find Shaiapouf attractive doesn't mean I want him to gut and eat me in real life. (Most likely. Probably. Maybe. If he asks REALLY nicely and bats his little boytwink lashes and gayass wings /sillyj)

4.) Do NOT compare me with other writers.

They are them and I am me and we both deserve our own little gold sticker stuck to our forehead! I think it's important everyone gets the recognition they deserve and I've been inspired by SOSO many writers on here, so make sure to go send support where deserved!

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WILL WRITE:

JJK, KNY, MHA, GI/HSR, HxH!! Mostly Phantom Troupe + Harbingers + Sampo + Satoru and Suguru + Shouta and Hizashi but like. Throw some crumbs through the tray slot, if I'm interested I will respond.

Yandere/Dark Fiction, reader-inserts, minor character death, non-con/dub-con slash hesitant? (doubtful of my writing skills to bring that justice), body horror/gore, dr**ging, etc...... idk I wanna flap my gay little wings and see whatever horrific shit I come up with /lh

WILL NOT DO:

Detailed pregnancy. I just can't man I don't want kids get those little HEATHENS OUTTA THERE!! I'll consider asks about it/drabbles but don't expect like an entire oneshot about it unless a hybrid AU takes me into a fucking chokehold. Then I might be doomed!

OCs, detailed requests, character/character requests (I can't say character/character as a whole I can feel Satosugu + the other homosexuals beaming lasers into the back of my head), oooomegaverse? Hybrids are neat-o to me but. I think I have Omegaverse PTSD I'll be real, come back when there's a more stable system/lore and less breeding.

SELF-HARM/SUICIDE IS A NO-GO!! Idk not only is it not fun for the reader/mc to just fucking. Croak. Self-harm is just not the way for me I don't think!! I MIIIGHHHT consider it but really don't get any hopes up.

PLEASE LET ME KNOW TO TAG SOMETHING IF IT IS TRIGGERING!! I WILL NOT BE MAD I AM JUST VERY FORGETFUL!! Idm if you ask tbh it honestly helps me find my own stuff once I go back, so win for everyone.

#crux rules #before you interact

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