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nerdylittleshit · 4 years

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Thoughts about Spn 15x09

BEWARE! SPOILERS AHEAD!

Uff. What an episode. There is a lot to unpack here, in a good way. On the one hand we have Dean and Cas’s storyline and once again we can speculate how much fanservice there is, though I rather felt that now that we are in the final season every story thread has to come to an end and things that have been unsaid before need to be put in words in order to give everyone’s story a satisfactorily ending. On the other hand we had Sam’s trip in the future, a very meta heavy part of the episode, that leads to a lot of speculation how the show might end.

But, as always, let’s take a closer look.

Cas and Dean’s excellent adventures in pur-gay-tory

We start the episode with Dean initially wanting to go after Sam and save him, until Cas reminds him about their priorities. Without the Leviathan flower they can’t finish the spell, they can’t trap Chuck, and therefore can’t save Sam, but more importantly save the world. Because this is obviously not just about Sam. In the past the brothers used to choose each other, despite the consequences it might would have for the world. Cas reminds Dean of the bigger picture and this is the first time the show hints that is no longer just about Sam and Dean, and them saving each other.

Once in purgatory we get of course a lot of reminders about the last time Dean and Cas spent there. Cas refuses to split up, not wanting to make the mistake again he did last time, though in the end he does the very same thing he did before: he separates from Dean in order to keep him safe. We don’t see exactly what has happened in the time between Dean passing out and finding Cas again. All we have is Cas’s word and I wonder if there is more to it, if something happened in that time that might become relevant later.

Dean once said that purgatory felt ‘pure’, so what better place to do some cleansing? Both Cas and Dean finally vocalize their feelings. Dean is, as always, hurt that Cas left. Cas on the other hand explains that he had no choice. Dean was not able to forgive Cas, so what else could he do? And more importantly Dean did not stop Cas from leaving. We have seen this behaviour so many times before: Dean gets angry, Cas leaves, Dean is hurt, and so is Cas because Dean never asked him to stay. We always joke that the biggest enemy on the show is miscommunication, but the writers use this tool to create tension and in the past to keep Dean and Cas’s story unresolved. But as the show is getting to an end it makes sense that we finally see them both using their words. Cas explaining why he left and why he is hurt. And Dean finally apologizing and admitting his anger issues. The prospect of losing Cas (for real) hits all his triggers, it makes him pray again, on his knees, crying. And though he might use the term ‘best friend’ (and well they are best friends) the way the scene was shot and edited and Jensen’s acting choices made it incredibly romantic.

On top of that we have several parallel between Dean & Cas and Sam & Eileen. Eileen questions at the end of the episode reality, just the way Dean did in 15x02. Cas told him that they are real, whereas Sam kisses Eileen (making this ship officially canon). In the future Sam was shown we saw Sam, Eileen, Dean and Cas all together, splitting them into two couples: Sam & Eileen and Dean & Cas. We learn that both Sam and Dean lose their respective partner some time later, though losing Cas seems to be the breaking point again for Dean, whereas Sam still had hope after losing Eileen.

Apart from that we learn while in purgatory that Benny is dead, though we are told this by a leviathan, therefore an unreliable narrator. Either they wanted to wrap up Benny’s story, informing us about his fate, or there is more to this, and Benny is not dead and might become relevant again.

Back to the future

Meanwhile Sam and Eileen are trapped by Chuck, though as Cas rightly pointed out, there is no risk that Chuck will kill Sam, because this is not the ending he wants. And well, it is all about the end now, isn’t it? And just like in “The End” Sam, like Dean back then, is presented with the future, with what will happen if they stick to their plan. But just as the future Dean saw in 5x04 didn’t come true (despite him refusing to say “yes” to Michael and Sam becoming Lucifer’s vessel) the question is now if the future Sam was presented will become true. Chuck claims he is omniscient, but that would deny any kind of free will. And we do know that free will does exist, that Sam and Dean not always act the way Chuck wants them do, like Dean refusing to kill Jack. And speaking of Jack (welcome back Nougat son), he is not present in any of the visions Sam saw, despite the fact that he will likely soon come back from the Empty.

We learn that without Chuck the world is unbalanced, that he is the one who kept the monsters in check, and that they will overrun the world once he is trapped. Sam and Dean will lose everyone they care about and in the end they will become monsters as well, killed by their friends (and Chuck implies that while this is the end of their story this isn’t even the worst to happen). A world without Chuck can’t exist. But… Chuck is not the only powerful player in the world. Amara is as powerful as he is, Jack is pretty powerful and there is still Michael. None of the three were mentioned or showed up in the future Sam saw, which doesn’t make a lot of sense. Also, while Amara was still locked up, the world was unbalanced as well (it even caused the first murder through the Mark of Cain), but it still held up. We are told that neither killing or locking Chuck up is the solution, so there must be a third option or Chuck did not tell Sam the truth, which I personally believe.

The damage however is already done, Sam has lost his hope, which somehow separated the connection between Sam and Chuck. It is Dean now who fights back, telling Chuck he never gets the ending he wants to see, so something is already different (in the future Sam had still hope whereas Dean was desperate). And speaking of endings, we learn that Chuck’s drafts are indeed memories from other worlds, all showing us the same thing: Sam and Dean giving up. The Butch and Sundance ending though, going out swinging? We only see that once Sam and Dean turned into monsters themselves. So this is an ending we are very likely not going to see. Sam and Dean alone, either killing each other or getting killed, this is Chuck’s vision and therefore not how the show ends.

We also learn about some other manipulations of Chuck: he arranged for Sam bringing Eileen back from the dead, so he could use her as a spy (and possibly as a bait). Obviously learning about all that made Eileen leave (at least for now), though the question is if Chuck still needs her, now that his wound is healed and he perhaps can see Sam and Dean again. We also see that Chuck doesn’t like to get his hands dirty, but instead uses Eileen to hurt Sam, watching the show. But it was implied that he killed everyone in the casino… or did he force the people there to do his dirty work as well?

Chuck also told Sam that he still thinks he is the hero of the story, that he can still win. We will see the consequences of Sam’s lack of confidence next week, because apparently Sam and Dean will no longer be the heroes of their stories, where they always (somehow) get a happy ending.

And something clever other people probably have figured out long ago and that just occurred to me now: the first episode Chuck appeared in was 4x18, “The Monster at the End of this Book”. The story is ending now, we are at the end of the book and who is the monster? Chuck.

#supernatural #spn meta #my meta #spn 15x09 #the trap

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bluephoenixdruidicprincess · 5 years

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SPN 14x19, Jack In The Box -- Review

We're getting there. We're almost at the finale, I can hardly believe it. It feels like season 14 only just recently started airing but yet, strangely at the same time, it feels like season 14 has been going forever. While I can definitely say that season 14 hasn't been my favorite season, it most certainly has been taking me on a wild ride. This week we have 14x19, Jack in the Box.

There will be spoilers so maybe don't read this if you haven't seen the episode.

I do want to say right off the bat that the episode name, "Jack in the Box" while a perfect title for this episode, it also completely spoils the episode before you even get into it. I didn't even need to watch the promo trailer (which I didn't) to know that this episode was going to surround the idea of Jack being stuffed in that malak coffin. But that's neither here nor there. Just a casual observation. I'm not really complaining about it, just simply stating that it's not exactly rocket science to see the title of the episode and make a somewhat accurate conjecture on what's going to happen.

Let's begin with the episode starting off with Mary's "wake" I guess. I'm assuming these extras are meant to be a mix of the regular hunters and the au!hunters that survived au!Michael. Everyone's having a good time reminiscing about Mary and then out of nowhere an axe flies killing one of hunters and it's revealed that the killer is au!Bobby and the hunter he killed was actually a wraith in disguise. And this scene, the tone of the scene, it was a little weird. For one thing, it takes a while before it's made explicit that au!Bobby killed this dude because he was a wraith. I want to say the scene goes on for about 10-15 seconds before they make it clear that au!Bobby was killing a monster and not one of his own and 15 seconds is an eternity in film practically. It was kind of jarring and then just seeing everyone not even blink an eye, just an, "hey, how are you, Bobby? Glad you could make it. Thanks for sticking that axe in that dude's nagen." I do have a certain amount of respect for that wraith, though. Going into a hunter headquarters full of hunters to gloat over another hunter's death...while not necessarily classy and somewhat ill-advised and stupid, I gotta respect the dude's guts. I'm sure the dude's having a grand old time in Purgatory now. Dude was clearly not one to shy away from a fight. But anyway, before, I mentioned how this moment was kind of jarring. And I'm thinking perhaps by design for the sake of symbolism and foreshadowing. We got a monster in the headquarters of hunters so I can see that as symbolism and foreshadowing that there's a monster in our heroes, as well. Throughout this episode we've seen our heroes grappling with things that are bad and could be considered monstrous by their own standards. We have Jack sinking further and further into darkness, basically letting the monster within take control even if it is through Dumah's manipulation. Then we have Sam and Dean grappling with betraying Jack, something neither of them are comfortable with. There's Cas killing Dumah and for Cas, he doesn't take killing angels lightly considering the immense guilt he already harbors towards them. Au!Bobby deciding that finding a way by any means necessary to take Jack off the playing field could be seen as letting the monster take over, as well. And then there's another angle to think about in which au!Bobby killed the monster hiding amongst the hunters which is interesting to think about as his aim is to kill Jack who's technically a monster living amongst hunters. And it also leads into the idea of Sam and Dean taking the same approach with Jack.

And while we're on the subject of Mary's wake, there was something I noticed in that scene where it felt like Dean's body language was very closed off to Cas. When he's giving the speech about how great Mary was, when referring to Mary as a mother, his gestures are always open to Sam but closed off from Cas despite Mary viewing Cas as a son and "one of her boys". So obviously, things are still a little tense between Dean and Cas. I'm not really looking to get into the "you're dead to me" drama here. I'll do that in different posts if I so choose but for the sake of this review and my commentary on this episode, I thought it was worth a mention and was wondering whether anyone else picked up on that.

In this episode, we have Jack getting some more bad advice from Negative Jack which ultimately leaves him quite vulnerable to emotional manipulation by Dumah. And Jack is super relatable in these moments, too. Technically, Jack is only two-years-old but emotionally, I'd say he's probably around 10 or 11-years-old. Emotionally, he's at an age where he wants to be included with adults but still lacks the capacity to make decisions based on his own self and instead he's doing whatever he thinks will make his family happy. It's really easy to be manipulated at that age. You want to hang out with the big kids but you haven't quite figured out that there's a whole new set of rules to hanging out with the big kids.

And Dumah's betrayal actually does make a certain amount of sense. She's the first angel that really showed much of an interest in Jack. She was the first one that really made it known that she saw a use for Jack. She was the one who first mentioned using Jack to create more angels. I haven't really talked that much about Mary's death being a conspiracy. I really just wanted to wait and see but Dumah's actions in this episode kind of lends a lot to that. It doesn't make complete sense because if she was the mastermind behind this why did she wait to talk to Cas before making her move? She clearly could find Jack reasonably quickly (I'm not sure how, but whatever) so why did it take her so long to do the initial search if this was her endgame? Or maybe it's a conspiracy on Billie's end? I'm still kind of side-eyeing her introducing the idea of the malak box when ultimately it wasn't necessary despite her telling Dean it was the solution that allowed everyone to live. Once again, I'll bring up my idea of Billie as an unreliable narrator. I'm certainly not calling Billie a villain or anything, but she is a character with her own agency and her own set of goals and it's important to note that while she may be willing to work with the Winchesters if the occasion calls for it, they have a business relationship with each other not necessarily a friendship one. She's playing the cards to get her own job done, what she feels is productive to this universe.

So I loved the confrontation scene between Cas and Dumah. As I mentioned before, a little bit of symbolism linking back to the beginning scene but I also saw Dumah as a mirror of Cas. A mirror of who Cas used to be. Season 6 Cas with sprinkles of Season 8 Cas. Dumah is all about trying to save heaven much like Cas once was and she isn't too choosy on how she goes about it. And then there was the threat on John and Mary very similar to Cas breaking down Sam's soul wall and telling Dean that he'll save Lisa and Ben if Dean supports his plan. So throughout this scene, Cas was basically looking at a previous version of himself, a side of himself that he hates and the scene culminating in Cas killing Dumah paints a clear picture, at least in my reading, of Cas killing the previous version of himself and perhaps paving the way to him forgiving himself. He certainly hasn't forgiven himself yet but symbolically, I think was a step in that direction. And also a nice parallel with trying to protect his family. He wasnt going to let Dumah do that to John and Mary so it's interesting when at the wake he came off as feeling like a little bit of an outsider of the group who wasn't necessarily being seen as one of the family, and then doing this to protect the family he was being treated as if he didn't belong to.

I'm going to refrain from talking about the whole manipulating Jack into the malak box as I fear I might get a little critical of Dean as a character if I try and do that. Truthfully, I've been somewhat quiet in these reviews in regards to Dean because I just want to wait and see where he ends up at the end of the season before I start really talking about his actions in these past couple of episodes. Needless to say, I understand why he's reacting the way he is but at the same time, it doesn't make it right and I'm not going to make excuses for him and I hope the show does something in which he acknowledges it and grows from it. And also, regarding the Malak box, they couldn't have made it a little bit comfortable for Jack? Throw a pillow in there. A blanket. A book to read? A stuffed animal he cherishes? You know something to make him feel like he wasn't being abandoned.

And locking away your problems in a cage, in a box? How very Chuck-like of the Winchesters considering that's what they got on Chuck about in season 11. If Chuck really is going to make an appearence in the finale, that would be an interesting conversation to have. Perhaps the Winchesters are seeing a little more from Chuck's point of view.

Well, I think that's the end of my ramblings. I hope you all enjoyed it. I certainly enjoyed this episode. Not bad for a BL episode. It could've been way worse but it was quite unlike BL to have such a grounded episode, it kind of took me by surprise. But I did feel like this episode's dialogue and directing was a little bland. Nothing very memorable in the cinematography or musical score. I'd give this episode a B-. It's enjoyable, it kept me interested but it's not something I really have any compulsion to return to.

As always tagging my friends @metafest to weigh in if they so choose. We got the finale next and I'm super excited to see how this season leaves us.

#spn 14.19 #spn 14x19

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mittensmorgul · 6 years

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Do you know of any instances in canon history where Dean's intuition has turned out to be wrong in a major way? Because it seems like we're going to start to see some answers to the "he was brainwashed" question since Jack flapped off and Dean still doesn't trust him.

Hrrrrm. This is a really difficult question, because like the Winchester Hunting Mindset, it’s not this black and white.

Like obviously of course he has and hasn’t, but extenuating circumstances. Context matters. Shades of grey, etc. etc.

Even all during s6 he fought against what his intuition was telling him about Cas, because he so wanted to believe in Cas. I mean, that’s a huge part of why he couldn’t forgive himself, or get over what Cas had done even by 7.17. He blamed himself for not pushing harder for answers, or maybe even for taking that whole year off with Lisa and trying to play normal

But aside from emotional overriding of what he’s got that bad feeling about, I can’t think of a single instance of his intuition being flat-out wrong.

Even in smaller ways, he’s typically right about the case stuff and Sam’s the doubter, but you specifically asked for if he’s been wrong in “a major way,” so I’m going to try and focus on The Big Issues. But again, the only instance I can think of right off the top of my head where he was stubbornly and blatantly wrong about a case was in 12.04– when he was absolutely convinced it was the social services lady who was a witch. Again, waves hello at Davy Perez, for absolutely nailing Dean’s immediate personal trauma and underscoring so many of his personal issues involving Mary’s fresh abandonment, his lifetime of likely run-ins with Family Services and well-meaning social workers, his parentification of Sam, his problematic relationship with John and the responsibility to hide the truth about their lives and protect Sam at all costs… which played right into the case they were working and colored his personal reactions. But again, extenuating circumstances…

Because of his personal issues with Mary and abandonment and the fact the social worker was openly admittedly a witch. Dean also got a very different impression of the family than Sam did (literally, he only had half the information to make his judgment on). He saw the father and son, the “happy families” side of the story where everything was presented to be done by their own choice, for positive family-bonding reasons in the wake of a personal tragedy. Meanwhile, Sam was in the house getting the skeevy third-person retelling of a first-person story by the mother, making it clear to us, who saw both sides of the story, that something was Definitely Fishy in that house. Meanwhile, all Dean could see after that encounter was that Sam had a bizarrely antagonistic reaction to a conversation he could only assume was nearly identical to the one he’d had outside.

This stark division, the reminder that they’d both had an entirely different experience in their respective interviews and thus come away with entirely different theories about the case, is highlighted as soon as they leave. Rather than sharing the reasons for their vastly different impressions and trying to figure out WHY they were given two entirely different impressions of this family, they each stubbornly stick to their guns. That was the entire POINT of this episode, on a meta level. And this lack of communication and understanding of the other’s entirely different experience and viewpoint and insight, Sam’s entirely unprepared for the entire family to be “in on the secret” and Dean’s bowled over to discover the social worker was nothing like she’d appeared to be on the surface.

And as soon as he saw the other side of the story, he instantly figured it out

So that’s the one glaring exception to Dean’s instinct, and it essentially works as an “exception that proves the rule,” because of the meta nature of the reasons he was “wrong” about the social worker.

That brings me to Dean’s role in the overarching narrative of the entire series. He’s the emotional POV for the audience. We’re supposed to ride along with him and even when he’s wrong he’s right. I know this bothers some people, and for some this is a major reason that they just don’t like Dean as a character. But most of the time, he’s the barometer for how the audience is supposed to react and feel and interpret the entire narrative.

We know Dean lies professionally, and is therefore an unreliable narrator, but we’re also given to understand that we’re still supposed to be “on his side” because he’s our emotional POV.

Whether he’s 100% right about Jack puppeting Cas or not doesn’t matter to me, so much as Dean’s reading of it being presented as the correct reading. Whether Jack meant to or not or whatever… (and we have ample evidence that most of what happens with his power is not something he does consciously, but that doesn’t mean he’s not subconsciously doing this stuff anyway), Dean’s read was the presented “main” reading and the events seemed to match it.

But I would argue Dean’s less right than 100%, but not more than 50% wrong. (the 50% being powers vs Jack himself doing it, i.e. the bit he’s partly “wrong” about is his assumption of any sort of intent on Jack’s behalf) and there will be a REASON he is wrong if he is which would necessarily justify his reading.

The fact that DEAN believed in the sock-puppeting, and the fact that JACK believes that it was a possibility, is what’s led directly to Jack’s current dilemma

Now that Cas is back, and he and Dean can finally (as he said in 12.23) “work through our crap,” theoretically he’ll be able to talk with Cas about all of that and try to understand Cas’s motives between 12.19 and 12.23. Unfortunately, Cas is also not objectively placed to talk about it, since it happened TO him and his emotional attachment to Jack /now/ is again a separate thing.

I fully believe he would have formed those same bonds with Kelly and unborn Jack in BETTER circumstances. Even if he’d gone back to the bunker with Sam and Dean as he’d already consented to do before the events at the sandbox. Arguably, it would’ve been a much safer and secure place for Jack to have been born, and for Dean and Sam to have come to understand the larger circumstances at play here.

As it is, Jack or his powers just made it happen for sure. Because of Dean’s stated concern that Cas wasn’t under his own control there, it renders anything Cas would have to say about it moot, because we can’t trust his objectivity. Because of Dean’s stated pov opinion on it.

Cas’s innate goodness and kindness vs his issues with protecting people/being a guardian angel/wanting a win all would lead him to care for Jack, and to feel responsible for caring for Jack, even if Jack’s powers hadn’t become a mitigating factor. I mean that’s why Kelly “picked him” to be Jack’s guardian in the first place. She (or Jack’s power) could plainly see Cas’s “goodness” in direct contrast to Dagon’s “badness.” He was even wavering about his orders to kill Kelly and Jack a few times IN 12x19, but he got pushed over the edge hard. This was not a gentle nudge or a moment of genuine character realization.

In the span of one glowy-golden-eyed sock puppeting (and that part is NOT up for debate, Jack’s power literally took Cas’s hand and used him to destroy Dagon), he went from “Jack must die and go to heaven before he’s born” to “Jack must be born with all his power at all costs” with no logic in between. We didn’t see his process on screen, and "he’s powerful enough to make me zap a knight of hell" is not good enough reasoning.

This was arguably the first instance of Jack’s power trying to do something good (killing Dagon) while having drastically unanticipated consequences (Joshua’s death, Dean being injured, the Colt being destroyed, and Cas abandoning his stated mission to take Kelly to Heaven so that Jack could be born with all his power). His power had already resurrected Kelly and thereby saved Jack, and that had caused cosmic alarm bells to ring in Heaven, providing the homing beacon Kelvin used to locate Kelly in the first place.

If anything it should be more concerning that he has that much power before he’s ever born. That firmly demonstrated his self-defensive instinct that we’ve seen trigger his power repeatedly since he’s been born.

After his power ~does the thing~ he doesn’t even seem to understand that he’d done anything. Like waking Cas up in the empty. Or the fact that his power resurrected Kelly when she’d killed herself, and yet he has no concept that he probably could’ve resurrected the guard he’d accidentally killed in 13.06 in the same way. Jack still is in a stage where he has to WANT to do things and I think understanding the guard is dead was too final to realize he COULD bring him back.

He seems to just ~do stuff~ with his power, not realizing it, and then later once he realizes he CAN, he attempts to do it deliberately– like the whole “throw people around” thing he seems to have perfected so he can do it without killing the rest of TFW at the end of the episode. I mean, the previous time he’d pulled that trick led to the circumstances he was terrified would happen ~without him intending harm~ but being unable to stop it from happening anyway. And yet he still did the Force Throw thing.

Then again, his INTENT when he was throwing that power at Dave the Ghoul was to kill/maim/injure… but he clearly has a lower setting on it and wasn’t afraid to use it on Sam, Dean, and Cas before flapping off, immediately after stating his reasoning for leaving being his desire NOT to hurt them…

He’s so highly conflicted about his OWN relationship with his powers that HE HIMSELF thinks of them as a tool and not inherently a part of himself. Right now his powers are literally acting like the man behind the curtain, and everything Dean’s witnessed with his own eyes has confirmed his initial impression that Jack’s powers are Not Trustworthy.

Over the course of the first six episodes of the season, Dean’s gotten to know Jack //the human person// outside of his powers, and seen what he was struggling with, his self-loathing and self-doubt and fear and confusion, and knowing that Jack’s powers may have set up the circumstances that led to Cas dying but also led directly to Cas coming back… well, that proved Jack’s intent was good, but still doesn’t clear up the whole “my power does what it wants and damn the consequences” issue that brought them to this point in the first place.

It’s rather a moot point if it ever really had been true or not before 13.04, but Dean’s BELIEF that it was true influenced Jack’s belief about whether or not it was true, which led directly to Jack “calling out” for Cas in the Empty… sort of proving the mechanism by which his power acts without his conscious control, and extends a TERRIFYING amount of influence into realms were even God has no power to act. And he does it all without it even registering to him. So in that respect, yeah, Dean’s 100% right.

He’s right because that’s the function of his POV within the narrative itself. And again, I know that has the potential to piss people off, and it’s kind of a hard fact to swallow sometimes, but unless the narrative explicitly proves Dean’s intuition wrong, we’re supposed to trust Dean’s assertions. And so far I’ve seen nothing to contradict this one.

#spn 13.06 #spn 12.19 #Anonymous #jack nougat winchester #seriously though why doesn't everyone just trust dean's gut instincts it's like he's got an uncanny magical gift here...#the special agony of brainwashing #feeling a wee bit rightfully terrified of the Incredible Nougat Power #dean is the center of the universe

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comicteaparty · 4 years

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October 28th-November 3rd, 2019, 2019 CTP Archive

The archive for the Comic Tea Party week long chat that occurred from October 28th , 2019 to November 3rd , 2019. The chat focused on Missing Pieces by Christopher Demetriou (Writer) and Stella Violari (Artist).

Featured Comment:

Chat:

RebelVampire

COMIC TEA PARTY- WEEK LONG BOOK CLUB START!

Hello and welcome everyone to Comic Tea Party’s Week Long Book Club~! This week we’ll be focusing on Missing Pieces by Christopher Demetriou (Writer) and Stella Violari (Artist)~! (https://www.webtoons.com/en/challenge/missing-pieces/list?title_no=192867)

You are free to read and comment about the comic all week at your own pace, so stop on by whenever it suits your schedule! Remember, though, that while we allow constructive criticism, our focus is to have fun and appreciate the comic. Below you will find four questions to get you started on the discussion. However, a new question will be posted and pinned everyday (between 12:01AM and 6AM PDT), so keep checking back for more! You have until November 3rd to tell us all your wonderful thoughts! With that established, let’s get going on the reading and the chatting!

QUESTION 1. What has been your favorite scene in the comic so far? What specifically did you like about it?

QUESTION 2. What are your thoughts on the story’s format of telling everything in a long flashback? In what ways do you think this helps with the blackouts and story’s end?

RebelVampire

QUESTION 3. At the moment, who is your favorite character? What about that character earns them this favor?

QUESTION 4. Why do you think Scott was seeing Laura everywhere? Additionally, what was he seeing? A ghost, an angel, or an illusion? What do you think the symbolic purpose was for the story?

RebelVampire

QUESTION 5. What has been your favorite illustration in the comic so far? What specifically about it do you like?

QUESTION 6. What do you think about the story’s themes regarding death changing one’s perspective on life? Why do you think that was the needed catalyst for Scott to mend his relationship with Marcus?

RebelVampire

1) My favorite scene in the comic is probably the one where ghost Laura realizes that she's dead. The emotions at that moment were unbelievably perfect, both between her and Scott. And like, the story was already sad enough. That really was a gut punch to find out that somehow, Laura never knew. It was trauma that hit really hard and I loved it for that. 2) Normally I'm skeptical of flashback stories, but I think in this case it really did aid how the story was delivered. Even without the blackouts, the format kind of allowed the story to skip around at a much faster pace than you would expect. Thus, despite being a drama, everything felt like it was always moving dramatically fast, even if technically only a few days passed in the course of the story. But I think when it came to the end, this is when the format really shined. Since at the end, we see that it was not just those 5 days where bad stuff happened and everyone moved on. The fact the end is older Scott really reflects just how his life instantly went to hell and changed forever never to be fixed. And I kind of think that captures how death feels sometimes. So in that way, having older Scott reflecting on everything offers a different perspective on life moving on than we otherwise would have gotten.

3) My favorite character is probably Scott. He's a really interesting character of contrasts. Has all the money and luck, but at the same time seems disconnected from it all. And ya know, there's the whole blackouts psychosis thing going on, which seeing him go through that is just overall an interesting journey. By the end, I was actually really upset along with him Laura was dead, cause I wanted Scott to be happy despite it all. But alas, it was not to be. 4) So while I call her ghost Laura, I am skeptical it was an actual ghost. Like I know Marcus said he could see her too, but everything is filtered through Scott's perspective. And well, Scott is the most unreliable narrator if I ever did see one. XD So I lean towards illusion. As for the symbolism, I do think she might have served as an important embodiment of acceptance. Cause while Scott seemed to accept she was gone, I really doubt he did, especially not in the first day or two. And I think Laura was the manifestation of that non-acceptance. Where despite logically Scott knew she was gone, his heart refused that Laura wasn't there as usual. Thus why Laura disappeared after she was buried. Cause burying someone kind of brings closure in certain ways (though not entirely). And with Laura buried, I think Scott finally took that final step towards accepting that she was gone, wasn't coming back, and that was that.

RebelVampire

5) My fave illustration so far is actually probably any landscape picture from the first episode https://www.webtoons.com/en/challenge/missing-pieces/ep-1-confessions/viewer?title_no=192867&episode_no=1 I'm always a sucker for landscapes, and flat out, I love the details on the mansion. Like that took a lot of effort to draw, but I am 100% sold on the design. Like there's even slight texturing on the walls and floors giving it character, and I just love that attention to detail. 6) This actually reminds me of a study that was done recently. Too lazy to find and link, but it talked about how our minds protect us by viewing death as something that only happens to "everybody else" but not ourselves. And while this study was focused on ourselves, I would argue this extends somewhat to the people around us. A lot of people just plain would rather pretend their family, friends, pets, and other loved ones are immune to death. And yet then it happens, and I think no matter who you are, it forces you to contend with that fact that 1) people are mortal and 2) life is never static and constantly changes. And I feel that's what the story shows with its themes. That even if we want things to be the same after someone close to us dies, it just cant be. And even if we don't want it to, the fact we have to change how we go about life is a driving force for changing one's perspective. Thus why it was the needed catalyst for Marcus and Scott. Until Laura died, both were static. There was no reason to change, and there was always the illusion there'd be time later to make amends, fight, etc. Whatever they wanted to do. But with Laura dying, whether they wanted to or not, they had to change, because their lives went from something that had Laura in it to lives that had no Laura.

RebelVampire

QUESTION 7. Which characters do you enjoy seeing interact the most? What about their dynamic interests you?

QUESTION 8. Do you think Scott and David deserved their vengeance? Why or why not? What part of their vengeance made the most emotional impact for you? In the bigger picture of things, what do you think we can learn from the story’s themes of vengeance?

snuffysam

I think one interesting aspect of this series relates to a couple questions that have been asked so far - that death can have both positive and negative aspects. Like, Laura's death caused Marcus & Scott to reconcile. Marcus finally began to accept David. But... there's also the vengeance that consumed and quite literally broke Scott. David was never able to have a loving relationship because of the weight of his actions. Like, the story is facing "death can be a chance to move on and start anew" off against "it's impossible to truly move past the death of a loved one", and it's like... i'm not sure there's a correct answer here. Like obviously the stuff they did to Mike was over the top, but... Revenge!Scott & David were right in that they never would have been truly happy had Mike actually escaped. Perhaps the answer lies in some middle ground, but, like... if they had captured Mike and turned him over to the police before evidence came in, would that have been right? And, like, what if Mike had just spent life in prison? Would they feel that justice had truly been served, and be able to move on with their lives? Or would Scott's desire for vengeance keep bubbling up regardless? Is there any scenario where David has a happy life with Nathan, or was that option taken away the moment Laura was killed?

RebelVampire

QUESTION 9. What sorts of art or story details have you noticed in the way the comic is crafted that you think deserves attention?

QUESTION 10. What do you think the blackouts say about who Scott is? Is it split personalities, parts of one whole person, or something else? Why do you think Scott’s tale of vengeance features this, and what does it say about people in general?

RebelVampire

@snuffysam I love that analysis of the story. It really is a story of contrasts about how death can be a new start but also potentially something you never get past. Although I would like to say that I think David could've had the chance. Even Scott said David wouldn't have gone along with it had they not been drunk. And I kind of believe him when they said that. I easily think there's a parallel world where David noped out, had a good life with Nathan, and Revenge!Scott killed Mike and went to jail or something like that. Which I am saying I don't think the opposite is true; that there's a scenario where Scott could've been happy and moved on. Cause the unfortunate thing about death, is you cant hit ctrl z on it. I don't think Scott could ever forgive Mike ever and no justice would ever be good enough.

RebelVampire

7) I think I enjoyed seeing David and Scott interacting the most. I kind of like all these little hints about the end in the way David interacts with Scott. And yet a lot of it just comes off as David just being kind of weird. And then the whole end just adds so much more weight to their interactions, that it's really worth a second read to just soak in everything that was a red flag. 8) I don't think Scott and David deserved their vengeance, but I'm also not one big on vengeance. Cause sure, Mike is dead and gone. But both of their lives were eternally ruined. It didn't help put Laura to rest (as she already moved on), it didn't help make Scott happier (as he completely broke himself, and it didn't help make David happier (as he lived with guilt forever). So in the end, they gained nothing, and someone else was added to the dead pile for that nothing. And additionally, because Mike wasn't brought to justice through the proper channels, nothing was learned by anybody else in society about how killing is bad and don't do it. And basically, yeah. For me those are the things we should learn. Vengeance is temporary satisfaction. It doesn't fix shit and just leaves everyone worse off. As far as the emotional impact, it was really the whole package and probably the conclusion. Cause again, they broke themselves for this. And I think to a degree, that's the saddest part. That while they could've learned to live with Laura's death, it's the other stuff that killed their souls.

RebelVampire

9) I love the details in the dialogue. To pull off the ending it did, the story really needed tight control, especially with David. And I love how it was executed. There was always that fine line between sensing something is wrong but also kind of wondering if you're being paranoid along with Scott or something. And I love all those little hints and pullbacks to keep you guessing. 10) If you ever listen to people who have killed spontaneously out of rage, you'll often hear them describe it kind of as a blackout. Some barely even remember doing the crime, and all they remember is the feeling of white hot rage. For me, this story somewhat parallels that. And in essence, all they say about who Scott is is that he's an angry person upset over the death of his wife. And I think that necessitated the formation of split personalities, as while not every case, there are cases where they form as a self defense mechanism. So while the first blackout was probably rage, the subsequent blackouts were a split personality thing protecting his mind from dealing with the debate about feeling justified vs. feeling guilty. As for what this tale says about people in general, I think it's that we all have the capacity to make poor choices and kill others. Like even if were nice people who give to charity, we all have the capacity for evil. And that sometimes this is good to remember, cause it reminds us to think our actions through before we act on emotional impulses and do stuff we can never take back.

Copper Mouflon

Hey, writer here. Been watching all the analysis you've done so far and just wanted to chime in and say omg!!! I absolutely love everything you've said! Both of you are right about what you've said. @snuffysam we did indeed not want to offer an answer to the questions posed. Just have the two "sides" collide and let the audience decide after they witness the outcome. @RebelVampire I love how you analyze the story and spot both the intentions and the hard work it took for us to achieve this end result! Makes me happy and proud to see people understanding all the messages and all the stuff between the lines and realizing there were clues throughout the story about the conclusion. I wanted this story to be one that as soon as you read it once you would want to go back and reread it this time knowing how it ends and seeing all the subtle clues we dropped in various episodes. If you want to ask me anything feel free! I thoroughly enjoyed all you've said so far. :D(edited)

RebelVampire

QUESTION 11. What do you think are this particular comic’s strengths? What do you think makes this comic unique? Please elaborate.

QUESTION 12. Given the ending, do you think the righteous side of Scott will ever prevail and turn himself in? Additionally, why do you feel that side of Scott is getting stronger compared to his vengeful side that remembers events?

RebelVampire

QUESTION 13. Do you have any final thoughts to share overall about the comic now that it's finished? QUESTION 14. Overall, how has the story impacted you, whether emotionally, the way you view something about life, or the way stories are crafted? In other words, what will stick with you about this story?

RebelVampire

11) I think the comic's strength is just in how the story is told. I've talked about this to death, probably, but the small hints in foreshadowing and everything really make for great twists. Cause its the kind of twists where thinking back it's so obviously but it's handled so well that in the moment, you cant really see it. And those sorts of twists are hard to pull off. 12) Given Scott's age, I don't think so. I think Scott is likely to die before his non-revenge side manages to gain control and stay in control. Or, optionally, by that point people will just think he's so old he's gone senile and everyone will brush it off as some old man just having memory issues. As for why the non-revenge side is getting stronger, I think it actually has a lot to do with Scott's age. I'm gonna trigger warning here for anyone who feels uncomfortable talking about mortality. Skip this last bit if need be. As we get older, we're faced more and more with the fact of our own mortality. While we can ignore it, the older we get, the less time there is. And once you start hitting close to the average lifespan age, the more you realize that every year you're not dead is kind of a miracle. But that being said, this sort of stuff often makes us think back on life and reflect on whether we lived a good life or not. And I kind of feel like that's what's happening to Scott. He's reflecting and afraid he didn't live a good life after all and that if there are no consequences now, if there is an afterlife, there could be consequences there. So I think those fears are kind of overriding the vengeance side as the end draws near.

RebelVampire

13) My final thoughts are just that I hope more people read it. It is certainly mature with lots of dark themes, but the story is woven together really well and the narrative is kept super tight. Every scene has a purpose, and the comic is just the right length to keep you invested without dragging you along drama after drama. 14) I think what will stick with me the most is the blackouts. How people's brains protect them from themselves is not something I always think about enough. And yet here it was used to beautifully to create not only great themes of revenge, but also create a good twist ending. This is definitely something I'll remember for my own work. This story is a good example of how we can be our own worst enemy and flat out not realize that cause our brains don't let us. I think this is also something that will stick with me because, honestly, that's a little horrifying too. We always want to believe that we're in control of our minds, but that just is not the case all the time. So there's a lot that could be done with these ideas.

RebelVampire

COMIC TEA PARTY- WEEK LONG BOOK CLUB END!

Thank you everyone so much for reading and chatting about Missing Pieces this week! Please also give a special thank you to Christopher Demetriou (Writer) and Stella Violari (Artist) for volunteering the comic and creating it! If you liked Missing Pieces, make sure to continue to support it via some of the links below!

Read and Comment: https://www.webtoons.com/en/challenge/missing-pieces/list?title_no=192867

Christopher and Stella’s Ko-Fi: https://ko-fi.com/coppermouflon

Copper Mouflon’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/CopperMouflon

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