i missed that class what dont you like about starlins rendition of their relationship?
(and also like, DID you think he did something in particular well or was it all…meh
the crux of my issues in this regard stems from batman #416. in the post-crisis era you began to see this way more lopsided depiction of bruce and dick's relationship wherein the former was portrayed to be almost.. bitter that dick had moved on to establish his own life. and it stood in great, great contrast to the bruce of the pre-crisis era, who was certainly devastated at the realization that dick was growing up, but also very intent for him to find his own happiness and way in life. they would have their disagreements on occasion (e.g., bruce initially disapproving of dick dropping out of college, bruce immediately taking leadership of a situation where the titans were involved when dick was better equipped to handle it, etc.) but the outcome of those situations was never outright bad yknow. bruce was very much capable of recognizing where he might have overstepped and subsequently stepped back to let dick have his own space. and i think initially max allan collins expanded on that dynamic in the post-crisis era in interesting ways by juxtaposing bruce's desire to see dick flourish against his own constant fear for dick's life. so instead of mike w. barr's comedic and lighthearted backup stories in early 80s tec where bruce disguised himself to keep an eye on dick's shenanigans and assure himself everything was going alright, you got this more serious confrontation within bruce with regards to his position as a parent. i don't think a lot of people read it that deeply but i've always viewed batman #408 as one of the most sensible depictions of that dilemma. the general complaints tend to be that this issue robbed dick of his pre-crisis decision to retire robin on his own, and i'll concede that as a worthwhile concern. but i don't think it's esp damning what with the implication that bruce no longer wants to be the person indirectly making the decision for dick to continue to be in this line of work. their moment at dick's bedside is less about bruce robbing him of the decision and more about him saying, if i let you still be robin, that's a direct reflection on me, bc i'm the one who got you to do all of this originally. i'm the one who put you directly in harm's way. if you're going to do this from now on, you need to do it on your own terms. you need to decide for yourself that this is who you want to be, without your relationship with me even being a factor.
it's a moment contributive to that delicious dynamic between them wherein every decision bruce takes to service dick's agency is inevitably read the wrong way by the latter to imply that he's not valued or not worthy of being seen as bruce's equal (and before the hounds pounce on me this obv does not include the increasingly abusive depiction of their relationship as the 90s progressed). that is an unavoidable dilemma when you're simultaneously someone's ward/adopted son and also their partner-in-crime! dick wants to be bruce's son and to be entitled to all of the love and care and protection that that entails but he also wants to be bruce's brother, his equal, his confidante, the one person he trusts more than anyone else in the world, etc. it's a tough place to be! it is paradoxical! and i'm so, so open to seeing that explored and think the way collins attempted to approach it in #408 was marvelous. but the way starlin (and other writers as well) totally swerved right in #416 to create this sudden resentment in bruce that dick had grown out of needing him was.. so utterly bizarre. like completely out of left field in a way i don't understand why people don't question it anymore bc in light of everything in the immediate fifteen years prior to the crisis it makes so little sense. their relationship with each other was so valued, bruce was so anxious to see dick establish himself while nonetheless maintaining a protectiveness over him, but it was all very much in good will even if he could overstep on occasion. it had all of the potential to allow for a very nuanced, empathetic exploration into the dilemmas of parenthood and esp when you are someone like bruce who has to forever live and contend with the crime of taking kids with him out onto the streets. bc he has to feel guilty! there is no escaping it. this is history, done and dusted forever, can't go back in time, so on and so forth. whatever harm comes any robin's way he has to live with as in some part being traceable back to his own actions. and i frankly believe that would be far more likely to evoke grief and anxiousness and concern than it would be bitterness that his son is charting out his own life
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Indarias random lil hcs:
Constantly chewed on EVERYTHING. Needed to chew on things or she’d get antsy and even start trying to gnaw on her fellow Yakshas. Bosacius once got bit so hard he couldn’t move one of his arms for a solid week
This was partially because her bite and jaw strength overall are ridiculously strong—she’d been known to crunch through bone and even Geovishap armor with a single bite
Prior to becoming one of the Yakshas, she admittedly hunted adepti, minor gods, and humans alike for sustenance. She was caught by Mountain Shaper in his amber while hunting him, but spared due to Moon Carver’s intervention. She fought alongside and under them for a brief time before joining the Yakshas
-She’s constantly hungry—she alone could eat a banquet’s worth of food and still find herself feeling hungry a mere hour after the fact. This continues on even in her present state. She is willing to eat anything and everything she can catch and then some, but, back then, usually stuck to whatever the others ate to be safe. She’s long since reverted to her old diet
It was due in part to her old ways that she fell first out of all the others to her karmic debt. Both habits prior to joining the yakshas and during her fights alongside them—she had a habit of devouring the remains of her enemies before doing away with what she could not with her flames, always saying it was her unique way of ‘purifying’ them when one of the other Yakshas questioned her. When really, she just needed to satiate her hunger
Used to very vulnerable to peer pressure prior to her fall, no matter how independent she boasted herself to be. Once the other Yakshas settled on smth, she would be sure to follow. It was actually due to Moon Carver and Mountain Shaper’s urging that she joined Morax’s cause in the first place
Then stayed because she’d been admittedly smitten by a certain Hydro Yaksha. Though she never made any conscious choice to bridge the gap beyond the relationship the yakshas had with one another, even with how close they were, prioritizing the mission and protecting them all over personal feelings
She had quite the temper and tendency to hold grudges over the smallest offenses, especially in her early days fighting alongside the Yakshas—only Bonanus was ever capable of talking her into at the very least apologizing, and then eventually start swaying Indarias into letting bygones by bygones at all the more they all got to know each other. Though in their later years, she would ease up on this fault of hers
While she still held her sane mind, Indarias learned to weaponize her karmic debt well, both in using the cursed energy to disorient enemies or to help herself get an extra—even if frenzied—boost in strength against an especially tough foe/task
Her fighting style heavily relied on her flames and teeth to deal damage, with twin swords being her secondary weapon
Her sense of smell is unparalleled amid the five Yakshas—she could identify any of the others by scent alone within moments of meeting them, and could follow traces of their respective scents for leagues. Specifically made sure to be able to, in fact, since Mountain Shaper and Moon Carver encouraged her to look after the others as she would them
Even having been consumed by her karmic debt, Indarias can still recognize the scents of her fellow Yakshas even to make her pause—she won’t readily remember THEM entirely, but the familiarity can stave off her urge to kill and devour in the moment
Is immune to fire—her skin is also impenetrable like armor, due to her kind’s nature
The clothes she wore were made from the fur of a qilin she slew in her years prior to the Yakshas and that of her own brethren—the interwoven fibers serve both to be soft and be just as impenetrable as her own skin was like armor, as an extra protection
She had offered to hunt and get her fellow Yakshas more of the same furs so they may all be able to enjoy the armor and comfort as she did…but she couldn’t comprehend Why they were horrified and vehemently rejected her offer until one had finally sat her down and Explained
Indarias had fallen in love with a human man at some point in her last few decades with the Yakshas. Even knowing they could never settle down and have a proper life together, as the Yaksha’s impossible fight would no doubt continue on past his lifespan, she agreed to let the man fight and travel alongside her so they could still be together, even against the warnings of the others
He would just as soon come to succumb to an early death from the miasma of her karmic debt however, much to her grief and rage
That had been her breaking point, where her hold on herself shattered and lead to Indarias succumbing to its influence herself in her anguish shortly after, even finding herself cursing Morax for having given her the mission before the madness took fully hold
She would become akin to a plague to every malevolent monster and fellow adeptus alike after that, fighting out her heartbreak and resentment alike before she'd vanish without a trace
For a time after her rampage and disappearance, she lay dormant until she was roused from slumber summoned by a desperate exorcist looking to bring back his wife
Oh, how his woes moved her. Oh what a pawn he would prove to be, in swaying him into offering her a meal of someone far stronger than himself
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