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brightly-painted-canvas · 3 years

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TOG fandom - How to address others in Italian (a little help for fellow writers)

Another one of these posts in quick succession because a thing I’ve noticed in many, many fanfiction is the incorrect use of titles and honorifics in Nicky’s Italian lines. Which... I get it, it’s super-uper difficult to get and also Google is the worst of all to translate the right use and nuance (my suggestion is to always prefer Reverso Context when translating entire phrases, it’s based on examples and it’s more accurate in general). So!

Let’s start with family (famiglia, with a gl, different to the Spanish word).

Papà = dad (please, please, PLEASE USE THE ACCENT. Just like Nicolo ≠ Nicolò, remember that Papa = Pope. And Nicky’s dad - or Nicky as a dad - is not a Pope). Variants! They are mostly regionals, but you can also use: papi, babbo, pa’. Father = padre, so if Nicky has to refer to an austere father figure or someone else’s father? Use padre and the honorific form (we will get to that). Mamma = mom. Variants! Mami, mammà, ma’. Mother = madre. Figlio/a = son/daughter. Sorella = sister. Older sister = sorella maggiore or sorellona (like ‘big sis’), younger sister = sorella minore or sorellina (’lil sis’). Fratello = brother. Older brother = fratello maggiore or fratellone (’big bro’), younger brother = fratello minore or fratellino (’lil bro’). Nonno/a = grandad/grandma. Also: nonnino/nonnina, it’s cute. Zio/a = uncle/aunt. Cute: zietto/zietta. Cugino/a = cousin. Younger cousins could also be called: cuginetto/cuginetta. Nipote = nephew/niece and grandson/granddaughter. Younger ones: nipotino/nipotina. Suocero/a = father-in-law/mother-in-law. Cognato/a = brother-in-law/sister-in-law. Genero = son-in-law. Nuora = daughter-in-law. ... and I’m stopping here, but if you have questions on other particular words just DM me :D

How to address loved ones.

Amico/a = friend. Someone who’s always very friendly and nice to hang up with = amicone/a. The BFF from when you were young kids = amichetto/a. Ragazzo/a = boyfriend/girlfriend. ‘Chi è? Il tuo ragazzo?’ = ‘Who’s that? Your boyfriend?’. Variants (also regionals): ragazzino/a, moroso/a, tipo/a. Fidanzato/a = fiancée. Could also be used as boy/girlfriend, but it’s mostly for couples about to get married. However, nonne all over Italy at Christmas would always ask their nephews/nieces ‘ce l’hai il/la fidanzatino/a?’ which basically is ‘have you found yourself a boy/girlfriend?’. Marito/moglie = husband/wife.

How to address royalty/nobility (to the person who asked about this specifically some time ago: took me some time, but here it is).

Sua/Vostra altezza reale/imperiale = His/Her/Your royal/imperial highness Sua/Vostra maestà reale = His/Her/Your royal majesty Re/Regina = King/Queen Imperatore/Imperatrice = Emperor/Empress Principe/Principessa = Prince/Princess Duca/Duchessa = Duke/Duchess Conte/Contessa = Count/Countess Signore/Signora = Lord/Lady (’mio Signore’ = my Lord)

The clergy (a relevant topic for Nicolò).

Prete = priest. Also: don (mostly used before the name to address the priest, like ‘Don Nicolò’)(yeah I know it reminds you of mafia names, that’s where they get it from... it’s basically a substitute of ‘signore’, frequently used in the South). You can also call the priest padre (father) ‘Padre Nicolò’. Padre superiore = father superior, frate = friar, monaco = monk, eremita = hermit, abate = abbott. To address a friar: fra and the name, like ‘Fra Giacomo’. Suora = nun. To address the nun: suor and the name, like ‘Suor Cristina’. Also: sorella, madre superiora = mother superior (’Madre Teresa’), badessa = abbess. Vescovo = bishop. ‘Sua Eccellenza’ = His Excellency. Arcivescovo = archbishop. ‘Sua Grazia’ = His Grace. Cardinale = cardinal. ‘Sua Eminenza’ = His Eminence. Papa = Pope. POPE. P-O-P-E as in the old holy guy dressed in white living in Vaticano. First rule of Italian, folks: we don’t have as many accents as the French, but when we do THEY MUST BE USED. Also: Santo Padre = Holy Father. ‘Sua Santità’ = His Holiness. I had to translate half ‘Wikihow - come rivolgersi al clero cattolico’ LOL

There should probably be a whole chapter about politics too, but you get the drift: use Reverso, check the examples and write me (or any other Italian user in the TOG fandom) a DM if you’re in doubt.

And we arrive straight to the honorific form. This is hard, I know... English doesn’t really have this form, but it’s extremely important to know it and know the differences to write/talk good Italian.

The basic rule is that when we speak to someone who’s above us in hierarchy (a client, a professor, an older colleague, ecc.) or a stranger, we use ‘lei’. Dare del lei means not referring to the person with the singular form of ‘you’ = tu, but use the female third person singular. Let’s proceed with an example: if you’re writing Nicky as a professor, he’s gonna be called ‘prof Di Genova’ by his Italian students. They wouldn’t say ‘prof, non interrogarmi’ to him, but they would use the ‘lei’ form: ‘prof, non mi interroghi’ (don’t test/question me, professor). This form is basically the most frequently translated by Google. This is why the most frequent mistake in fanfiction is Nicky asking ‘scusi?’ (sorry, in the ’lei’ form) to Joe or Andy or Booker instead of ‘scusa?’. As much as I think Nicky is a very polite guy and he definitely would use the ‘lei’ form with strangers, he knows his family (and his husband!) well enough to use the ‘you’. As a rule, always check if the translated Italian you are using is in the honorific form and, if it shouldn’t be in your fic (as in: Nicky is talking to someone he knows, like Nile or Joe or his family), change it to the ‘you’ form. NB! Nice nuance in fanfiction: Nicky using the ‘lei’ form with Copley or even Merrick (sometimes using the honorific form with asshole strangers adds a very sassy flavour) and Nicky using the ‘lei’ form with Joe if you’re writing a first meeting AU (in a polite/formal environment). It’s cute because there’s frequently a moment during a first meeting conversation where people ask each other: ‘possiamo darci del tu?’ (can we use the ‘you’ form?) and I think it’d work well with them.

You think this is it? THINK AGAIN! We also have an even more reverential form, to use with very veeery important people (nobility, extremely high-up people and the such) which is dare del voi. Voi = you (second person plural). The ‘vostra’ you saw above in the royalty part comes from this. Example: if Nicky is a prince or a king, a counselor should address him with the ‘voi’ form. ‘Vostra maestà, vogliate scusarmi: ho dimenticato di aggiornarvi su questo argomento’ (Your Majesty, please excuse me: I’ve forgotten to give you updates on this topic).

A bit complicated, I know, but I hope I’ve helped. Remember you can DM me anytime if you have questions. If you think I’ve forgotten something, please add a comment so that I can reply! :D

Here are the links to my previous ‘Italian language for fellow writers’ posts:

Terms of endearment

Swear words

Writing ‘good’

#translation #the old guard #tog fanfic #tog fandom #kaysanova #joe and nicky #nicolò di genova #writing #italian 101 #Italian language

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nevermindirah · 3 years

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Dorothy Freeman facts

By facts I of course mean headcanons, because Nile's mom doesn't get a first name in canon (or even confirmation that her last name is Freeman). All we know about her is the picture on Nile's phone lock screen (which is Kiki Layne's real-life mom and brother!) and a few lines that Nile tells Andy about her. I’ve been collecting my Dorothy headcanons for a while now to eventually make a post, and @mprosperossprite‘s excellent post giving non-Americans context for what it means that Nile is from the South Side of Chicago prompted me to go ahead and share this. Disclaimer that I’m white and I will absolutely make corrections if it’s pointed out that I’ve caused harm with any of this.

So here have some fun facts about the version of Mama Freeman who lives in my head rent-free:

Her family and growing up:

she was born in the mid-'60s and named after Dorothy Dandridge

I can’t decide whether she was born in Chicago or moved there later on (maybe with Nile’s dad?) and when in the waves of the Great Migration her family left the South

she came of age in the "post"-Civil Rights movement and went to college in the mid-80s when a lot of what are now the foundational classics of Black feminism were being written

she was a young adult when Anita Hill risked so much to report that a Supreme Court nominee had sexually harassed her, and as a result she HATES Joe Biden

Marriage and babies:

she met Nile's father — I can’t decide how they met and I have two competing headcanons for his name, either Gideon for the hefty Biblical masculinity vibes (Giddy for short among family, that man loved to laugh) or Carl, which started out as a shitty Carl’s Jr burger chain joke that turns out to be perfect (it means free man!), and @knoepfchen used it in the sequel to if you do take a thief where Carl is alive!! — and Dorothy was a little skeptical of his near-religious devotion to the military but he was really hot and really devoted to her and they made it work

she's a little pissed that she was right but it's unbearable if she thinks about it too often

it's going to be a long, long time before she can look back on pictures of Baby Nile stomping around the house in her dad's combat boots (this is a Gina Prince Bythewood headcanon, whyyyyyyyy can I not find a link to where she said this)

she named their second baby Indus, Indy for short (this is nearly as established fanon in Book of Nile circles as how much Booker loves eating pussy, and Indy Freeman as a young adult is portrayed by either Aldis Hodge or John Boyega I don’t make the rules)

Work:

Dorothy did some office jobs but nothing really grabbed her, and she was probably gonna have to move for her husband's career, so she decided on teaching — high school humanities

she’s been active in CTU (one of the strongest teacher’s unions in the US) her whole career and one year she was on the bargaining committee and her babies know damn well never to trust a boss, not even one who says all the right things — if she ever finds out the way Nile said "like Quynh?" when Andy promised to protect her, she will lose her mind with pride

(Nile was 18 and freshly graduated from high school in 2012 when CTU went on strike for the first time in a generation and she brought her mom snacks on the picket line)

one of her very favorite things is getting her students to laugh despite themselves at her "oh my GOD you're so EMBARRASSING" old-people jokes

she's one of those teachers who can get 30+ teenagers to go dead silent with judicious application of body language

she's known to occasionally go easy on grading subjective things like essays when she knows students are having a particularly rough time at home, but the second she gets the feeling they're taking advantage and not trying their best that shit is over and they better mind their Ps & Qs

she's the kind of person who says old-people shit like that

she gives her students assignments like "help 5 neighbors register to vote" and "write a compare/contrast table about the candidates in this local election" and "research 5 different ways you could get grant money to do X" and other practical civic-minded shit

standardized testing is her supervillain origin story, just kidding it’s Rahm Emanuel, why the fuck did Obama trust that asshole

After her husband died:

she would have lost her goddamn mind if it weren't for her church friends after her husband died, people from the church raised money so they could make ends meet while his pension paperwork was taking forever, church friends watched Indy so Nile could go out for the soccer team, etc etc

she sold her and her late husband's house and moved to a 3-bedroom co-op unit when Nile started high school, it's more affordable and it meant she didn't have to worry about household repairs in the same way, she can use a wrench if she needs to but she doesn't have time and it just makes her grief flare up (co-op housing has a long history in Chicago and other US cities (like Washington DC where I live) as a way for Black people to access decent, affordable housing in the face of entrenched discrimination)

the move meant putting a longer commute between her and church, but she didn't even bother looking for a church closer to their new home, she loaded the kids into the car on the weekends, parking is hell in their new neighborhood but it's worth giving up a hard-won parking spot to not have to wait so long for the L on Sunday mornings

Indy lived with her through college and he was gearing up to get his own place when Nile died, Dorothy was planning to move into a one-bedroom in the co-op building because she doesn't need so much space anymore, Indy took a day off from his new job (not so new anymore, her baby's so grown!) to help her sort things to donate when those dress-uniform Marines came to their door

part of her wishes she could've been home more and not had to rely on Nile so much for help with Indy, but he's turned out such a kind young man, and he's a much better cook than his sister is (was, oh God — no wait, is! she’s alive! what do you mean you’ve been alive all this time??)

some of the girls from church are encouraging her to check out this social dancing thing, nobody's pressuring her to date but there's definitely been some ribbing, and with Indy out of the house... maybe? probably not, but maybe

Her feelings and beliefs and likes and dislikes:

she's an absolute badass and also she's a soft human woman with lots of feelings

she's very, very traditional in some ways, and part of her mixed feelings about Nile following in her dad's footsteps is gender stuff, she's proud of her daughter and would never stand in the way of what Nile wants to do with her life, and if Nile came home and told her she's a lesbian she would never reject her, but if Nile came home and told her she's bisexual maybe she can just try focusing on men? “I love you sweetheart and I want you to be happy I just know how hard it is already for us in this world” type shit

she has been on team natural hair basically her entire life and one of the worst fights she and Nile ever had was over Nile wanting to straighten her hair as a pre-teen

Indy takes more after her and Nile takes more after their dad, she's so proud of both of them, but Dorothy's activism was mostly wearing her natural hair to work and daring bosses to give her shit, Indy's out there marching in the streets like her parents had and she WORRIES

she teases Indy for going to so many protests like he's using it as an excuse to meet girls, but she WORRIES

when she turns 60, she gets box braids with streaks of dark purple, subtle enough that it's still work-appropriate but it makes her smile, she may be old now but damnit she’s still pretty!

she loves Grey's Anatomy and Star Trek and she watched Bridgerton all in one day

she has a dirty-old-lady celebrity crush on Chris Hemsworth

if she's ever masturbated thinking about Donna Summer, well, that's nobody's business but her own (do non-Americans know about the queen of disco??)

If you want to read fic featuring Dorothy:

I won't have to leave alone, 1000 words, Nile has a nightmare and decides to go tell her family she's immortal

I See Your Eyes Seek a Distant Shore, 65k, Nile adjusts to immortality and does a lot of soul searching about what it means to "do what we think is right", Booker goes to grad school for trauma studies, the working title of this fic was Booker Reads Edward Said and Gloria Anzaldúa and Goes Down on Nile and the final product has an annotated bibliography in the author's notes if you’re into that kind of thing, a lot of my Dorothy Freeman headcanons were born of my process writing this

Gather round the table, we'll give you a treat, 2279 words, college AU, Nile brings her Jewish boyfriend home for Christmas

a contribution I made to Shitty Old Guard Deaths: (Booker, USA, 2025, cause of death: a mother’s righteous wrath)

#nile freeman #nile's family #dorothy freeman #tog headcanons #tog meta #mine #long post

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in-tua-deep · 4 years

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I sent an ask like this before but I think tumblr ate it so I guess I’m sending it again. I love your tog/tua crossover! It was the post that made me watch the old guard and I’m v happy abt that. I was thinking about Booker ‘I have trauma about my kids growing old and dying’ Le Livre and I can’t help but think he’d go full dad mode on Five at all times. Five gets the father he deserves and Booker gets an undying child. Everyone wins.

oof yeah it would be... complicated to say the LEAST

I’m not sure Booker would be ready in any sense of the word to be a father again, and having an immortal child would be,, really painful honestly, especially when he had to watch his children grow old and die and now there’s this child who gets to live and it’s not fair

and Booker is... a normal father, for lack of a better word. He loved his children. He told them stories and swung them into his arms and pressed kisses against their rosy little cheeks, he held them when they cried and joined in with the laughter, and he loved them

and so he looks at this - this child, because Five is thirteen and he doesn’t deserve this

but Five is not familiar with the idea of a normal father. His father was cruel, was very forthright in the fact that he did not care about the children as human beings. It’s laughable to think that Reginald Hargreeves would ever tell them stories, would ever hold them or kiss their cheeks or laugh with them. Reginald Hargreeves avoided even touching them. A father to Five is monumentally different than what a father is to Booker

they bright side is that if Booker ever acts fatherly, Five doesn’t clock it as fatherly. He might accuse Booker of mothering him? But honestly Booker probably is like “we can’t let Five do X dangerous thing, he’s baby” which,, Grace helped the kids get ready for their missions, she never tried to protect them from their ‘work’

and some of the things are so far outside of Five’s frame of reference that he just assumes they’re an Old Guard thing or something, like when Five gets a smear of dirt on his cheek and Booker automatically grabs a handkerchief to scrub it off

(I can claim this because Five has such non reactions to the same thing in the s2 gifs I have seen that I can only say he’s just like ??? the whole time and just chooses not to address it, especially bc it happens both with a family member AND an enemy and he doesn’t react either time)

To be fair, they all baby Five to an extent, but it looks different for each of them

Andy doesn’t know what to do with a child? She hasn’t really,, been around children for extended periods of time honestly, she’s used to saving kids and is honestly pretty good at awkwardly talking Five through panic attacks. But she’s kind of tough love, and would probably cheer Five up by giving him weapons and letting him blow stuff up tbh

Nicky and Joe are kind of like fun uncles? they tease Five a lot, and he can’t even argue with them because they’re both like 900 years older than him but also they are very emotional and touchy and they like to ruffle his hair and lean on him and give him hugs that pick him up and swing him around. It’s weird and he isn’t sure if he likes it, but it’s kind of nice to be included?? They never had kids so they’re kind of indulgent with him tbh, kids like taking down horrific time based organizations as a pass time right?

Booker is awkward because he is a father and so he does things like ruffle Five’s hair on autopilot or pile more food on Five’s plate or anything, and he freezes because - it’s something he did with his own kids, and,,,,, he might get more than a little emotional about it. which weirds Five out. Booker is definitely one of the more protective of them though and dislikes putting Five in the line of fire

Nile has Big Sister energy, despite being younger than literally anyone else in this au technically considering that the umbrella academy are 3 years older than her. She has what is vastly lacking: emotional maturity. She sort of adopts Five as a kid brother, which makes her nostalgic for her own brother but also Five is so different it’s not a big issue, but Nile used to babysit for money as well and knows how to handle difficult kids and just applies that to Five

(and it actually works more often than not, five is not immune to Nile’s impeccable logic - mainly because Nile doesn’t order Five she lays out her reasoning in a way that he can’t even argue with)

booker has issues, he has a LOT of issues especially regarding kids and stepping into a fatherly role that I’m not sure he would comfortable with for a long time... but he has a lot of time to wrestle with those issues and eventually step into a more parental role since they have... literally hundreds of years together in the future lmao

five has to learn to actually be a child and not just a child soldier, which isn’t exactly easy considering he’s now going to part of the immortal ‘army’

honestly i think a good healing part of this au is just... the og squad learning that surviving isn’t the same as living, and even though they still have to be careful about their footprints even with Copley erasing them... I think they have a lot to learn about living

and having normal human ‘sponsors’ to help out... well I mean - the Hargreeves are super wealthy now that their dad kicked the bucket and are probably very willing to go on camping trips or go to Disney World or drag the squad paintballing. When was the last time the og squad just had fun? no worrying about missions and saving people or saving each other, just pure silly nonsense fun

and the Hargreeves are learning to have fun for the first time as well, even if it means Klaus aggressively putting Mickey Mouse ears on everyone and Diego cheating at paintball and Nile teaming up with Allison to get everyone to go to various plays and musicals

the Hargreeves aren’t immortal but they also aren’t helpless either, and I could see them tagging along on any cool missions for a while. Especially Diego, tbh, with his discount batman schtick he has going on

(honestly if anyone would remind Booker of his kids, it would... probably be Klaus? His children were adults when they died, and he saw them dying, and Klaus is skinny as a rail and sickly looking and probably has health issues thanks to the extended drug use and withdrawal going on

so consider: Booker telling Klaus to sit down and let him cook, get some soup in that boy he’s way too skinny, booker is FRENCH he WILL cook for this beanpole. His mama’s stew could knock the plague right out of a person, probably.

Booker: that is far too heavy for you let me take it

Klaus: oh! no dude it’s fine -

Booker: sit down !! you look like a strong breeze could knock you over. I will bring you some soup.

Klaus: I’m fine !! Don’t worry about me -

Diego: don’t listen to him!! he absolutely needs minding 24/7 or he WILL find a way to get hurt

Booker: !! are you hurting right now? Sit down! Honestly -devolves into muttered french curses as he bustles off to the kitchen-)

but yes there you go the og squad and umbella academy combine into the ULTIMATE FAMILY due to shared custody of Five for the duration of the academy’s lives

#tog/tua au #booker has a lot of issues #booker said 'i WILL be the mum friend'#joe and nicky disagree #booker is the group BABY #actually honestly nile is both the little sister friend AND the mum friend #nile: on god y'all better not be doing stupid shit i need to bail you out for #klaus is a sickly looking young man and booker WILL mother him #five is baby but he's feral baby #booker will try to protect him as best he can but also like #five met him and immediately stabbed him which was a bitch move #five is the squad babiest brother slash gremlin #booker: ANDY !! five STABBED me #andy: well did you deserve it?#the gang send copley one of those roller coaster photos of them to add to his conspiracy boards #it's signed 'xoxo nicky and joe ;3c'#copley cries a little inside over this #copley: STOP HANGING OUT WITH CELEBRITIES #allison: lol oh yeah forgot about that #five literally has a buzzfeed unsolved episode about him #but honestly people just expect that level of shenanigans from the umbrella academy #who are public figures and Very Wealthy so the government can't just make the disappear #or steal them for experiments #nile is the one they send to deal with five when he's being unreasonable #she just has cat herder energy to her but also is unhinged enough to jump out of windows and shit so #nile has babysitter energy #but my old babysitter who let me build a couch cushion train around him because he was Very Tired and I was a Very Energetic Six Year Old #nicky and joe just treat five like an oversized cat tbh #'aww look at the littler murder machine!' they say #swinging him up by his armpits and kissing the side of his head

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