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atopvisenyashill · 5 months

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THE PACT OF ICE AND FIRE

so there's an aspect of this one i don't think has really been delved into that I think may be important when it comes to canon jonsa and I wanted to do my own lil analysis, along with maybe some tin hatting at the end here.

this is what the pact is (or what we know of it at any rate, Munkun is not exactly a good source of information):

Cregan Stark and Jacaerys Velaryon reached an accord, and signed and sealed the agreement that Grand Maester Munkun calls “the Pact of Ice and Fire” in his True Telling. Like many such pacts, it was to be sealed with a marriage. Lord Cregan’s son, Rickon, was a year old. Prince Jacaerys was as yet unmarried and childless, but it was assumed that he would sire children of his own once his mother sat the Iron Throne. Under the terms of the pact, the prince’s firstborn daughter would be sent north at the age of seven, to be fostered at Winterfell until such time as she was old enough to marry Lord Cregan’s heir.

There's two parts to this that I think are important here. Here is the first, which is the basics of the pact, and that most Jonsas are familiar with:

Jacaery's First Born Daughter Is Fostered At Winterfell -> She will marry Cregan's first born son and heir.

Obviously, this never happened for several reasons and the pact is forgotten but perhaps it will be fulfilled anyway by...

Jon, a secret Targaryen bastard, is "fostered" at Winterfell -> he will fulfill the pact by marrying a Stark Maiden aka Sansa.

Basically, it's a genderswapped version of what the pact entails. I think given George's fondness for how Tolkien was a hater of Macbeth because he thought the "no man of woman born" should have indicated a girl and not just a man born via c-section, I think the genderswap aspect fits George's style.

The second part however, has more to do with Jacaerys and Sara and I feel like it's glossed over a bit. See here:

They had spoken their vows in Winterfell’s own godswood before a heart tree, and only then had she given herself to him, wrapped in furs amidst the snows as the old gods looked on.

Jacaerys, a "secret" Targaryen bastard who gets his family name and allegiances through his mother, not his father -> Rumors of a secret marriage in front of a Weirwood with a Stark bastard, Sara

Listen. It doesn't matter whether Sara Snow is real, you believe whatever makes you happy! But what IS real and relevant is that this part was included in F&B for a reason, and is indicated to be the catalyst for the pact. Jace and Sara get secret married in front of a Weirwood, and this is what calms down Cregan so they can make their pact. And here is how (I believe) it applies to Jonsa:

Jon, a secret Targaryen bastard, but who gets his look and his allegiance not through his father but Lyanna's blood -> Jon, a Stark bastard, will marry an Heir in secret in front of a Weirwood tree.

THAT is, imo, the most important aspect of this scandalous story from Mushroom - that a secret bastard, a targaryen and a stark, secretly marry in front of a Weirwood tree just before a bloody war kicks off. People tend to make Sansa the Sara in this part, which is valid, but I think Sansa's role in this is not just to be the pretty Stark maiden, but to be the HEIR that is secretly marrying for love, like Jacaerys is, and that Jon's role will be about his status as a bastard, so that both parts kind of apply to both characters. And given that, if Jace and Sara had married, their daughter would have been a Starkgaryen with "secret" bastard heritage (from both her parents), marrying a Stark Heir, it does make sense (at least in my mind) that this may apply to Jon and Sansa's future plot. the That's something I touched on here in my "what will Jon's endgame" post.

Then there's the Vermax of it all...

Mushroom also claims that Vermax left a clutch of dragon’s eggs at Winterfell, which is equally absurd. Whilst it is true that determining the sex of a living dragon is a nigh on impossible task, no other source mentions Vermax producing so much as a single egg, so it must be assumed that he was male. Septon Barth’s speculation that the dragons change sex at need, being “as mutable as flame,” is too ludicrous to consider.)

This brought to mind the ole' Jonnel and Sansa (the first) thing - beyond the J&S similarities (Jacaerys & Sara, Jon & Sansa, Jonnel & Sansa), I think it's also important that Jonnel and Sansa never have any children, though they're married for several years. Jacaerys and Sara also never have children, yet there's the rumor Vermax laid eggs in the crypt, with some believing this may have meant Sara was pregnant (but perhaps miscarried) when Jacaerys left. I think however, the fact that both J&S couples kind of mysteriously do not have children of their own, and that their Houses descend from someone else to be important.

I've kind of briefly gone into the idea that Bran rules in a parliamentary style over (what's left of) Westeros, and while I'm not too committed one way or the other on whether he physically has children or whether they elect the ruler on the Iron Throne more often starting from Bran, the succession is significantly less of an issue because of the permanent Great Council/Parliament that will exist. Sansa (and Jon, for that matter), however, is the heiress to a long line of kings and lords and needs some sort of heir. I don't think it's out of the realm of possibililty that while in the Vale, she connects with some of Jocelyn Stark's descendants (the famous "Vale cousins" that Catelyn mentions as heirs for Robb) and makes one of them her heir, or even names the children of Arya her heir, and pulls a Queen Elizabeth, but then I thought of Vermax laying dragon eggs that are never found, and Jonnel and Sansa never having children, and George's love of threes and thought...perhaps Jon and Sansa will have an heir, but Sansa can't claim the child as hers.

In that same vein, it’s noteworthy to me as well that Serena and Edric (Sansa's younger sister and Jonnel's younger brother) have TWO sons but the line completely bypasses them. We have no idea how the Northerners felt about these marriages beyond the fact that they didn't like Lynara's sons because their rules were plagued by troubles. Is it possible that they chose to bypass Edric's sons because of the incest, and Sansa/Jon may be forced to reconcile with how the realm views him (as Ned's son) and what he actually is (Lyanna's son) when it comes to the line of succession? IE - Vermax is rumored to lay an egg in the crypts but no one ever finds out, Sansa is rumored to have have had a child with her “brother” but no one ever finds out the truth.

TO SUM UP: I think the Pact of Ice and Fire is a hint that Jon and Sansa will secretly marry in the godswood of Winterfell, and it's likely that when Sansa is named Queen in the North, her heir will be "fathered by a wolf" or a "wildling" and she and Jon won't be able to tell anyone that Jon is the father.

#i was going to end this with the 'much to think about' billy ray cyrus meme but i stopped myself #jonsa #jonsa meta #actually jonsa #jon snow #sansa stark #jacaerys velaryon #jacaerys targaryen #getting on my soap box #serena stark #jonnel stark #edric stark #sara snow #rani attempts meta #twow speculation #ados speculation #stone and snow remains #i think that's all my tags #i'm literally so nervous posting this bc i think the last part might be a stretch so if u think its dumb do Not tell me or i'll throw up lo #i also know a lot of non jonsas follow me and the opinion of most non jonsas tends to be 'those people are crazy' :'(((((((#it's not relevant to the meta but i have kinda theorized that sansa was going to say her kids were fathered by a wolf for a long time.#and then i read twoiaf and f&b and this all clicked into place for me. so i feel even if jonsa doesn't happen. we'll get something similar #where *we* the reader knows that sansa has a secret husband/lover and he's the father but the north doesn't know (and doesn't care tm)

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araminakilla · 1 month

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Tad 4 theory: The main theme of the movie

My brain: Seriously, already??? The movie comes out in-

Shhhhh, it's never too early to cook.

It's not that deep but I'm just wondering what is the main theme of Tadeo Jones 4. We know the group will travel to the past and make it to their present before it's too late.

Maybe the theme will be something about "letting your past go and focusing on what you have in the present" and I could be wrong, but this is a lesson that it will most likely affect not Tad, but MUMMY the most.

Yes, Tad may have some other issues to resolve that we don't know about. Maybe he's going to marry Sara and he's sad his parents (and probably his granny) aren't with him while Sara has her father still present.

Maybe Ramona has also something to say regarding her tragic past and how it was unfair her reign only lasted 3 days or maybe even Sara has some problems regarding her past, be with her father or Victoria or who-knows-who.

But it is Mummy the one who is going to make the wish...

Why? As seeing this is going to be the funniest movie of the franchise, I think I can't have some sad undertones. It could be he isn't making the wish for him, but for his friends.

Maybe he want Tad to encounter his parents or for Sara, her mother.

Maybe he want to take Ramona to her era when Egypt was great so she can see her subjects again (she mentioned at the end of the third movie that she misses them)

Or maybe he just wants to randomly travel through time so he and his friends could see past events that were only recorded in books. It would be interesting if the "travel between time" is decided on whoever holds the lamp or maybe they get a travel machine or a clock or something.

Would be interesting if Mummy didn't even say where/when he wants to travel and the magic of the lamp just transports him to the time he was alive because... lore and stuff, but I think this won't happen.

Also Mummy will finally had to confront his mistakes for once because he was partially responsible for the curse of the third movie. He unleashed Hermes from his chains, made more easy to the police to follow his friends and destroyed the Mona Lisa, but never said "I'm sorry"

He was probably sorry, but the movie didn't show that. And now that his wish is going to reshape the world as they (and we) know it, he is finally going to realize that "yes, I messed up big time and it's my fault"

We still don't know if someone (coughTad) motivated him to make the wish, but he still did it, and the reasons behind that peculiar wish could be more deep than the others realize.

Back with the theme of letting your past go, maybe if they DO have a villain in that movie they could be motivated by the fact that they can't and WON'T let their past go. Probably if there's a genie inside the lamo, it could be their case as part of their backstory.

Or maybe some of the funny characters they meet in the past have their own reasons as to why they cling to the past, and some will let it go, while others (the villains/antagonists) don't.

The possibilities are endless. But I'm pretty sure the lesson would be something related to the past and not let that define you (kind of like Kung Fu Panda 2, but less serious and more funny)

#tadeo jones #tadeo jones 4 #tad the lost explorer #tad the lost explorer 4 #tadeo jones theory #tad stones #sara lavroff #mummy (tadeo jones)#ramona (tadeo jones)

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