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apenitentialprayer · 2 days

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i know that as a catholic you just have to believe with what the church says but i really dont like the belief of the original sin, i feel like its such a horrible thing to believe about yourself and about other human beings too

There are actually ways of legitimately dissenting from Church teaching from less essential teachings in a way that leaves you in good standing with the Church; I'm not sure if Original Sin is one of those things, though, to be honest.

But, anon, I'm going to offer another perspective here, starting from a quote (perhaps ironically?) from my favorite heretic. One of the things that James Carroll believes is that Original Sin has been given a bad wrap. In Constantine's Sword, he says:

I referred to Augustine’s assertion of the idea that the human condition implies a perennial state of finitude, weakness, and sin, all of which will be overcome, even for the Church, only with the end of time. [...] Augustine is thus regarded as the father of a severe, flesh-hating, sin-obsessed theology, but that dark characterization misses the point of his insight. His honest admission of the universality of human woundedness is a precondition for both self-acceptance and the forgiveness of the other, which for Augustine always involved the operation of God’s grace, God’s gift. Only humans capable of confronting the moral tragedy of existence, matched to God’s offer of repairing grace, are capable of community, and community is the antidote to human woundedness. Augustine sensed that relationship as being at the heart of God, and he saw it as being at the heart of human hope, too. This is a profoundly humane vision.

I wish I had understood the spirit of this quote when I was in high school. I remember learning in my World History class that Islam teaches that all children are born good, and then the world makes them evil. And I remember my teacher asking how that compares with Christianity, and I raised my hand and said that Christianity teaches that all of us are born evil. Because I believed that at the time. And, really, the whole framing of that question was wrong and gave really simplistic representations of what Islam and Christianity teaches, but I don't think we're alone in having internalized that understanding, anon. And that's a shame.

I thin it's important to remember the worldview that the doctrine of Original Sin is actively defending us against; there was an idea, that gets called "Pelagianism" (the poor guy it got named after may not even have believed it), that said that humans were capable of being saved on their own, by their own power. Someone on this site recently asked what people's thoughts on Pelagianism were, so you can read my thoughts here. But to keep it short and sweet, I think Original Sin is an important doctrine because it saves you from the need to be perfect.

There are ways to treat Original Sin that I think are certainly unhealthy, and I think the doctrine can be a source of anxiety and fear. But I also think, very deeply, that Original Sin should be a reason why we treat ourselves and especially our neighbor with kindness and understanding. I can look at myself and say "What I do, I do not understand. For I do not do what I want, but I do what I hate. […] For I do not do the good that I want, but I do the evil I do not want" (Romans 7:15, 19). And I can say that because I know I am ontologically wounded; that all of us have our weaknesses. That while we may still be in the moral wrong for committing a morally wrong action, our wills are compromised in a way that causes us to incline towards the comfortable and the easy rather than the good.

I wish I could go back in time and tell that class that Christianity does not teach that people are born evil. I wish I could go back and tell them that it teaches that we are born in a state of dis-integration, that we are wounded beings yearning for wholeness; alienated beings seeking everlasting belonging; beings lost in darkness, seeking the light. But I can say it now: the doctrine of Original Sin doesn't have to be an occasion to think you're depraved and without value, but it can be an invitation to come to terms with your own woundedness, because doing that (to use the words of Lutheran theologian Nancy Eiesland) "opens a space for the inflowing of grace and acceptance."

#Christianity #Catholicism #Original Sin #James Carroll #asks #Saint Augustine #Pelagianism #grace #Epistle to the Romans #sin #weakness #Lutheranism

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greater-than-the-sword · 1 month

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Saw American Gospel part 2. Pretty good. I agree with it like 98% the other 2% I'm still thinking about but I think y'all need to see it. When they were spot on they were spot on and they were really good about giving examples of exactly what errors they're debunking right from the mouth of the people who say them. Mike Winger was in it too. They interviewed the deconstructionist podcast guys and some other people. It was really painful to hear these guys speak to be honest.

#even the 2% i disagreed on was uncomfortable to disagree on bc i really respect these guys #that said as much as i disagree with Entire Sanctification i think they mislabeled it when calling it pelagianism #that was more of a nitpick though

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july-19th-club · 3 months

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was looking up the only ash wednesday song ive ever loved (offering of ashes. btw. or just ashes. tom conry 1978 i know nothing else about this man except that he wrote this song) (for fic purposes) and stumbled upon a forum full of catholics discussing the revised version that was included in the 2021 hymnal and boyyyyyyyy the trads HATE this song. it was a 70s piece and a bit hippydippy in the sense that, for a catholic song, it is low on guilt and strong on self-forgiveness, and the first guy in the thread just has to point out that the unrevised version was too pelagian to be properly catholic

#pelagianism is one of my favorite heresies and i dont even know how this song could be that #next commenter 'i wouldnt use either in church if you put a gun to my head' third commenter 'i love it when heresy is removed from hymnals'#so far im feeling great about what i want this song to DO in the fic. like i knew i liked her for a reason #she's actively contrary to the spirit of lenten guilt! she's doing her own thing! and she's doing it hauntingly #lots of the commenters dislike the fact that the song contains the refrain 'an offering of ashes' because the ashes of ash wednesday #are not an offering they're *an outward sign of penance*#which even as a child i thought was sort of self-aggrandizing. like ohhhhhhhh we get it you went to church and we all see it #it always made me feel like a guilt trip if i washed mine off #i love when religious folks get SO up in arms about theology of lyrics in songs. girl i think he was just trying to make it rhyme #do you not have bigger things to worry about. religiously?#theology is like grammar. to me. it's fascinating to learn about its history and usage but some people treat it like the laws of physics

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skelkankaos · 1 year

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Christian Heresy tier list

#Pelagian is S tier #That's all I've got so far #Xtianity cw

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milfbro · 1 year

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I love wikipedia rabbit holes, we were talking about hypnosis and I told my brother that I think catholic confession existed to fill the role of therapy before they invented psychology, and my brother asked when did catholics start doing confession

well now I'm 30 popes in and trying to understand what the fuck is semipelagianism

#apparently there's such a thing as an “antipope”#this has nothing to do with pelagianism i just thought it was funny #the aside about whether confucionism is allowed in the catholic church was also very fun #(confession is part of judeism btw. They will say it starts with jc but it was already a thing before he existed)

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wisdomfish · 2 years

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Where something prevails by lies, revealing them is victory: “they will proceed no further: for their folly will be made evident to all men” (2Tim. 3:9). So revealing error puts a stop to it, for no one will be willingly deceived. Let truth have its full scope without check or restraint, and let Satan and his instruments do their worst, they shall not prevail. Jerome says of the Pelagians in his time: “The revealing of your opinions is the vanquishing of them; your blasphemies appear at the first blush.”

Richard Sibbes

#jerome #pelagian #lies #victory #satan

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mereinkling · 2 years

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C.S. Lewis, the Psalms, and Penitence

When do you feel closest to God? When you’ve been about holy business all day and are now praying at your bedside? Or, when everything in your life seems to have imploded, and you look about you helplessly, with nowhere else to turn than your heavenly Father? In The Four Loves, C.S. Lewis provides a brilliant insight into the nature of our souls. Man approaches God most nearly when he is in one…

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#Anne Boleyn #Antinomianism #Book of Common Prayer #C.S. Lewis #Forgiveness #Girdle Books #Henry VIII #John Fisher #Martin Luther #Pelagianism #Penitence #Psalms #Reformation #T.S. Eliot #Tyndale

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geopolicraticus · 22 days

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youtube

TODAY IN PHILOSOPHY OF HISTORY

Husserl and Philosophy of History as a Crisis Discipline

Monday 08 April 2024 is the 165th anniversary of the birth of Edmund Husserl (08 April 1859 – 27 April 1938), who was born in Proßnitz, Moravia, on this date in 1859.

Husserl is known for developing the method of phenomenology, but in the final years of his life he turned to the problems of history as a philosophical response to contemporaneous crises. Husserl was an arch-rationalist who saw the pursuit of reason as the infinite task of humanity. I argue that there is a path that can be traced from Plato through Pelagius and Siger of Brabant to Husserl, and it is in this tradition that Husserl’s philosophy of history is to be located.

Quora: https://philosophyofhistory.quora.com/

Discord: https://discord.gg/r3dudQvGxD

Links: https://jnnielsen.carrd.co/

Newsletter: http://eepurl.com/dMh0_-/

Podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/nick-nielsen94/episodes/Husserl-and-Philosophy-of-History-as-a-Crisis-Discipline-e2i5mja

Text post: https://geopolicraticus.substack.com/p/edmund-husserl-and-philosophy-of

#philosophy of history #youtube #Edmund Husserl #phenomenology #Pelagianism #teleology #crisis #Erich Voegelin #Youtube

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fatedprophetess-perfectstorms · 4 months

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#ok but just imagine being accused of arianism or pelagianism when you are just a dutch reformed girl #i need to read less theology #christianity #personal

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dashmore-springs · 8 months

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Pelagianism & Buddha Dharma

Did you know that Pelagianism is Buddha Dharma in its conception?

#buddhism #dharma #Pelagianism

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apenitentialprayer · 5 months

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We have seen that for Paul, to be in Christ is to live a life of cruciformity, to be shaped by his presence and his story, not only from without but also from within, because it is true that "Christ lives in me." As noted briefly earlier, the intimacy of this Pauline experience often finds expression in phrases and words that are translated into English using the word "with." […] English expressions containing the word "with" simply do not do justice to much of Paul's language, experience, or thinking in this regard. The prefix "co-" does a better job; Paul says that we have to be co-buried and co-crucified with Christ, that we have to been co-formed with his death and will be co-formed with his resurrection in glory, that if we co-suffer with Christ we are coheirs with him and will be co-glorified with him. The focus of this participation is on suffering and death with Christ in the present, and on resurrection and glory in the future. […] The language of Romans 6:5, though it focuses on the future resurrection, suggests, by using the perfect tense ("we have been united with him in a death like this"), that union with Christ's death is not a one-time past event but an ongoing reality.

- Michael Gorman (Cruciformity: Paul's Narrative Spirituality of the Cross, pages 45, 46)

Michael Gorman cites Albert Schweitzer's contention that "in-Christ" mysticism, not justification by faith, was the center of Paul's theology and experience. [...] Being united with Christ in this way answers those who may think that salvation through [...] praxis is "Pelagian." It is not our actions that save us; it is our being united with Christ in his way of the cross that saves us. This way of the cross continues across time through his Body, the church.

- Terrence Rynne (Gandhi & Jesus: The Saving Power of Nonviolence, page 181)

The means by which the new society [of Christ] spread was [...] discipleship: a non-envious identification with this person.

- Norbert Lohfink (Church Dreams: Talking Against the Trend, page 97), trans. Linda Maloney

Crucified to the World, by Chris Powers

#Christianity #Catholicism #Jesus Christ #Crucifixion #kenosis #Resurrection #grace #Saint Paul #Imitatio Dei #Pelagianism #mysticism #Co Redemptrix #sola fide #Epistle to the Romans #Via Crucis #Letter to the Galatians #salvation #Ecclesia

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theologyforthelayman · 1 year

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What Is Pelagianism?

Many Protestant Christians say that the Catholic Church teaches Pelagianism, or at the very least semi-Pelagianism. This line of reasoning shows a fundamental misunderstanding of not only what the Church teaches, but what Pelagianism is. Pelagianism is a heresy that was condemned by the Church and is superfluous for beatitude. When Did Pelagianism Start? What is Pelagianism? It is a system…

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#catholic #christianity #faith #pelagianism #theology

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theexodvs · 2 years

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>Download sobriety app for substance abuse disorder

>Every day when preparing for another day of sobriety sends a word of encouragement

>Includes Pelagian garbage like, “Believe in yourself!”

>”Believing in myself is what got me here in the first place!”

#believe in yourself #believe in yourselves #pelagius #pelagianism #pelagian #pelagians #be yourself #be yourselves #follow your heart #follow your hearts #sobriety #sober #i am sober

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h0kxqiccv9pk8 · 1 year

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