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nathalie-sancoeur-assistant · 5 years

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Emilie Agreste

(Note, I do NOT remember if I have made an in-depth post on this before and if I have my apologies but I want to put this out there)

Okay so I know I say that I hope Emilie is going to be a villain but this is my OFFICIAL post on it, and I'm going to call it right here, right now, in front of everyone, that Emilie Agreste is not only going to be a villain, but she's going to be a force to be reckoned with (I mean, you can't just have the main-bad of the series NOT be ruthless, cunning and hard to beat, right?)

She's going to be charming. How else would she get Gabriel Agreste to fall for her and practically worship the ground she walks on if he's going to not only tear Paris to shreds for her, but risk the life of, most likely, his only friend in the world and one true ally, Nathalie Sancoeur?

Lemme take some time to break this down okay. Now I've spent a lot of time on this, didn't even initially type it out on Tumblr, mkay? I took this baby to sticky notes on my laptop.

First we gotta look at Adriens past just to get a feel for the type of person she was.

Adrien spent his childhood alone, isolated from other people, homeschooled, sheltered beyond whats normal or, even what can be considered extreme and his social life....well, it wasn't even dead, because something that never existed can't die. His only friend was, of all people, the bratty, entitled, snobbish and selfish person we know of as Chloe Bougeoirs (not to anger any Chloe fans out there, she has her pros and cons and I know its a result of a bad childhood as well, but she still uses people, manipulates them and hurts others purposefully to get attention and I don't care how bad of a childhood you've had, that's not okay and she needs to mature because at this rate she's going to stay an ignorant child for as long as she lives). Now, any normal parent might want their kid to have someone their age who was a good influence- and Chloe probably would have benefitted from Adriens present if he wasn't such a...for lack of a better word, a pushover. The poor boy didn't know what friendship was until Nino came about, before that his expectations were probably very low and he had nothing to compare it to. He was isolated for 14 years. Socially, he's dumb as a pickle and it's not his fault. He fits the perfect stereotype that people who are homeschooled are socially inept. So really, his nature as a pushover is a direct result of his upbringing- he doesn't know how wrong it is sometimes.

Now tell me, what kind of decent parent- especially one that needs their child to be able to put on a good image- would be okay with this? They might think "Oh he has Chloe" but I can guarantee you as they got older they could see more and more how bratty Chloe was getting and what a terrible influence she could be on their son- so why did they not attempt to help him socialize? It's not impossible for homeschooled kids to socialize and have a bunch of friends. There are libraries, parks, churches, social gatherings, community events, etc. that you can bring your homeschooled child to for a healthy dose of social interaction with the possibility of making friends- and with how well off these guys are you know darn well they could have gotten him to one at least once a week. Why go to so much effort to keep your kid behind closed doors? It has serious psychological effects that I'm sure people who are smart enough to get so far would know about. Heck you don't even have to be smart to know it- human beings are social creatures, even if some of us are introverted as heck and never want to leave our house, we still need human interaction otherwise we will get sick in some way shape or form. Emilie had a huge say in Adrien's upbringing and could have easily gotten him out of the house- and the reason I say she had a huge role is because, as soon as she was gone, Gabriel started doing what Nathalie suggested. This man relies on the women in his life to help raise his kid, because he knows he's not good at parenting to a certain degree. He trusted that Emilie, as Adrien's mother, would be able to know what was best and likely went along with it because "She'll know what to do. She's his mother and I trust her. If she says it's what is best, then it's whats best and it's what I want." But then as SOON as she was gone, he didn't have that to fall back on and in comes Nathalie, the second best thing. She knows Adrien, she's helped raise him. She's been around for a long time, surely not all her suggestions are going to be wrong. So he goes along with it. (And note while I stated that SEEMINGLY as fact, it was less FACT and more OBSERVATION on my part. I could be wrong! But based off what I've seen and my own intuition, this is how I PERSONALLY have interpreted the situation). But to clarify- no decent mother is going to allow their child to be so out-of-touch. Its perfectly normal to want to protect them but when its to that degree....something just isn't sitting right. (Not saying that Gabriel is off the hook! He could have influence if he wanted too! He has the power to step in and say no- but he doesn't. He does deserve to be shamed for it, just don't forget that EMILIE IS NOT PERFECT)

Now we move on to her personality. We don't know a lot about it, at least we haven't been directly told, but at one point in Simon Says it is insinuated that she had a temper. What a strange first thing to reveal about how she acted, when she's supposedly the ideal mother and woman? (My own personal opinion is that she is going to have that temper, and be bold, intelligent, strong, cunning, charming, and eventually shown to be ruthless, but that is ONLY because I feel that those are traits that accompany a main villain well. I'm not saying that for a fact and I could be COMPLETELY wrong- I thought Duusu was going to be a bitter bipolar ball of sass but from the small clip we've seen she's sweet as a strawberry. So don't take this as fact, PLEASE.) What a strange trait to put any amount of emphasis on for someone painted as ideally as her.

Also- why was she interested in the Miraculous? She knew about them, we know that for a fact, because she gave Gabriel the book. She, I believe, is the one who started this whole miraculous endeavor. I mean, Gabriel by himself I doubt would have any interest in traveling completely out of the country on some off-chance that these so called "magical trinkets" might exist, would he? That doesn't sound like him to me. Not something he'd partake in by himself. Not to mention, we know the miraculous are directly tied to her coma, and without any villains to fight, why on Earth would she be using the peacock miraculous so much? I don't recall it ever being confirmed but we all basically assume it's canon now that Emilie is in a coma because of the damaged miraculous. What on EARTH could she have been doing that required her to use the broken of their two miraculous so frequently? And not even cause any past of sentimonsters in the city (we know that because of how surprised everyone is about the sentimonsters beforehand, how even Ladybug questioned it when we first saw one) And in the end, the book was her last gift to Gabriel. It was hers, not theirs, hers. So that leads me to question- did Gabriel even know about the book until Emilie gave it to him? And if that's the case, why would she wait until she was THAT sick to give it to him? Something just feels off about that.

Now we go on to think about everything Gabriel says when he talks to her. Now there have been MULTIPLE episodes, I can't give exact quotes or even tell you what episodes they were, where Gabriel said something about ruling the world...yeah nah someone like him isn't interested in governing a world of idiots, I've heard that that was simply bad translation and we can also just chalk it up to him getting carried away and less referring to actual world-domination and more just showing exactly how much power he'll have if/when he gets his hands on those miraculous and make his wish. But Gabriel has said things about "promises" they made and "Righting their mistakes"- there is obviously more going on here than meets the eye. There has BEEN more going on here than meets the eye since day one. And we're still in the dark as to the Agreste's full story. Obviously Gabriel and Emilie have made mistakes and his goal isn't just to wish her back, but I'm going to say to potentially wish away the very mistake that caused the miraculous to be broken and Emilie to go comatose in the first place. Perhaps there's more to it but that seems like the most logical route to me. Again, we don't know the full story yet, which just leaves open so many questions and leaves Emilie up to even more suspicion. What was she doing that needs wished away? What broke the peacock miraculous? What did they promise each other?( I think I've mentioned that before and someone said Astruc addressed it or something but I digress, unless I hear something solid and concrete disproving it Im going to wonder about it forever. )

It's been insinuated I believe that the whole reason Gabriel became Hawkmoth was BECAUSE he wanted to bring Emilie back and right those past wrongs. His whole motivation to keep going could be that once he gets those miraculous and changes the past, he will never have had to have even become Hawkmoth in the first place and therefore his current actions don't matter so long as he succeeds and erases that part of his life completely. The ENTIRE REASON he became the supervillain Hawkmoth is because of his wife. And if he succeeds he could potentially wipe it all away and have a clean slate at the expense of someone else taking his place, of course. That may be what he is relying on to keep himself going and justifying his actions for all we know. People didn't know about Hawkmoth before origins, they were all surprised, so that's more proof that...he wasn't really Hawkmoth until his wife fell ill.

Not to mention all the symbolism we see. In Adrien's post on Instagram with Nathalie helping him with his homework, we see Nathalie, working hard to be of service to the Agreste child and fill the role of a mother while his biological mother's portrait, in all its "perfect" glory (Also a picture that clearly idolizes her, making her look almost like some sort of Goddess) sits blurry in the background...watching. That is the best example I have right now but if anyone else has more, feel free to let me know! I'm sure there are plenty of things here I forgot to mention that can be addressed, and if anyone thinks of any, PLEASE, send an ask my way and feel free to discuss it. But this has been my argument, and official "called it!" post on how Emilie is not all she's cracked up to be.

Also a side note- I'm also calling Gabriel succeeding. I believe he's gonna get the miraculous. Its just the twist the show needs, the 'bad guys' for once seeming to win, but they're all pawns in Emilie's game....that last line may be a bit drastic but Im not going to say I don't believe it to some degree.

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freunwol · 6 years

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theory: freud is chronica is evan??

and this isnt just desperation i have proof

warning this is long as balls

Transcendent related

His disdain for transcendents not barring him from using time magic to seal off travelling prior to that point, which would require him to call upon Rhinne….unless he can do it himself.

Some transcendents reincarnate. *some.* And none of the ones we know of now do that, to our knowledge. So why would they just throw that tidbit in if it’s not relevant? Coughevancough. (relevance explained in heroes section*)

Freud was able to regain a memory that there was a sixth hero. Luminous, the one who is part transcendent, did not. Black Mage remembers Eun because, in his words, he is a transcendent. It’s possible that it is in fact because he made up the plan, but you think you’d remember almost giving up your entire existence for a spell, Lumi? And then suddenly not having to?

Of course there’s the possibility that Lumi’s lying about forgetting or that BM was lying about remembering because of transcendence but that’s a whole other can of worms…

I’m not discrediting him making the plan playing into this though, it could contribute and that’s why Freud remembered and not Luminous The Fragment Of The Transcendent That Remembers

Hero related

Prior to Heroes of Maple trying to make Eun’s situation into a curse, he was fully erased from history. Not only from memories, but from the physical situation of existence, given that he is erased from photographs and any trace of him left behind is erased as well. This is different from a curse, and even with Lucid’s help, Black Mage likely wouldn’t be able to literally obfuscate the past. Time powers could, and if Freud were Chronica his spell would be directly related to time.

Plus it is already, since it stopped anyone from travelling prior to that point.

If that were the case, wouldn’t this make recovering Eun’s existence next to impossible since you can’t change anything relating to the past anymore?

Even making it a curse it’s applicable, if just an extremely powerful curse. I can’t quite logic this part to much beyond pure speculation, but I do think that Freud had much more to do with the effects of this, considering that it was his spell.

Freud said himself that he remembered that there were six heroes since he himself designed the sealing spell!

*Relating to Evan and reincarnation. It’s an obvious conclusion to make that Evan is his reincarnation given that they look alike. It’s made more obvious by a direct connection that Evan does have to Freud- through Mir. Mir was Afrien’s egg, and thus probably(/definitelycuzalltheotheronyxdragonsgotmurdered) his child, and was intended to reinstate the soul bond. A reincarnation and the son of the guy who had a soul bond with the prior incarnation, it makes too much sense to be a coincidence and literally everyone knows it.

Lumi cited Freud as his intellectual match, and the only person ever to be such.

Mirror World related

This one goes in a few different places, so bear with me. In the Zero storyline, Alpha finds the transcript explaining transcendents that states that Rhinne and Alicia were “content in their roles”, and that Black Mage was not and begun chaos because of this. We know for a fact now that Black Mage was not content, not only as a transcendent but as a pawn of whatever greater power exists in Maple World. His methods are of course horrible and he’s the worst yadda yadda but he’s fighting against the system- something Freud is hinted at considering, from his conversation with Lumi. It would make for an interesting perspective, given that he himself is a transcendent, but then it could be that he feels guilty that the transcendence system is causing so much pain and suffering for the world he loves so much, and the only way for it to work is if all three are “content in their roles”, something they are not likely to be.

This is speculation, but it could make sense- could repeated interaction with humans and a closer connection to the world make a transcendent less “content”? We know that White Mage’s intentions were, originally, for the good of the world, trying to reform it into something peaceful, that eventually was corrupted. We also know that Alicia is supremely disconnected from humanity, seeing them as lesser than the other creatures and much worse. This disconnect could make her more content with her existence, with less curiosity regarding humans and the inner workings of the world and more focus on the other creatures. (This may intersect with information about Darmoor, since he’s both the transcendent of life and ruler of the lef he may have gotten too immersed in their life and gotten “discontent?”) Freud, loving Maple world, could have reincarnated himself as a human to learn more about humanity, and is growing discontent with the roles of transcendents seeing its effects as an insider as well as an outsider?

(This is kinda starting to sound like a Jesus thing, being born as a human but also still divine and knowing human pain and all that shit… I’ve jokingly compared him to Jesus before but this is ridiculous if true oh my god this would be the funniest thing if I’m right about any of this FREUD IS JESUS)

BACK TO MIRROR WORLD why was Freud in mirror world if he’s dead? And of all people that we know of? Sure, Phantom and Evan are there, but both of them are connected to those places in some way- Evan grew up in Henesys, and Phantom probably grew up in Ariant. And both are alive. As is everyone else we see in mirror world, younger or older or whatever. So why the fuck is Freud there? We also know for sure that it is in fact all based on the present day since there’s nobody from the past and Leafre isn’t full of demons (used to be demon land but they were forced out…) so why, out of everyone there, is Freud there if he’s dead?

Bit anecdotal, but they did have Freud there in the section where they introduced the idea of relics that help wield the power of the transcendents, and we got Lapis and Lazuli from this.

Could the Freud’s Journal quest somehow be slightly related to this? It’s a stretch, but the ring could be some kind of relic, since restoring it gives you a lil fairy kinda similar to Lapis & Lazuli…

This is a real reach, but in the Mirror World, the chief of Leafre called Freud an explorer, which is what Sugar was before it was revealed she was the spirit of Maple World or whatever…

Speaking of Sugar, do seal stones work into this? I doubt it a little, since you *need* five other people and he likely had those five other people...But then again, that’s quite a fantastic invention to realize how to make… I’m not sure.