#I also want to break down will’s character more thoroughly because his progression in s1 is so insane to me

[ghostdrinkssoup]

hi!! I was wondering if you could explain how people break up the seasons of hannibal? I understand 3a/3b but is there a 2a and 2b??? (also I love your blog and analysis’ if you see someone spam liking it’s me sorry😭😭)

aww thank you so much, I’m so glad you like my blog :”)) and no worries, I’d be happy to explain! fair warning though, I’m gonna give you a very detailed answer because I love talking about the nuances of plot and hannibal is so neatly structured it makes me want to devour it <3

so throughout the show the story follows several plot arcs at once (which all constitute the main plot) and because s2 and 3 roughly follow two at a time they’re categorised as either ‘plot arc a’ or ‘plot arc b.’ it’s pretty easy to identify the a/b plots in s3 because they’re so distinct (the florence arc vs the red dragon arc, as you know), plus there’s a big time jump and setting shift.

in s2 it’s a little less clear but still identifiable. s2a follows will’s imprisonment arc which roughly makes up the first half of s2 (I’d say from kaiseki until halfway through yakimono since there’s an odd number of episodes per season) while s2b follows his seduction arc. short-term character goals also change between arcs. for example, in s2a will’s main goal is to prove his innocence, hurt hannibal and escape incarceration, which is resolved once will proves the copycat killer and chesapeake ripper are the same and jack finds miriam alive. however, by resolving the central conflict of s2a will is suddenly faced with new problems/circumstances. thus, in s2b he has a new goal, which is to lure hannibal and assist jack with his capture. this plot thread is resolved in mizumono after hannibal escapes, ending s2b and setting up the central conflict and stakes that underpin s3a (and so on until the main conflict is resolved and the show finishes).

s1 is a little trickier to break up since it doesn’t follow the same structural pattern as s2 and 3. there’s no clear shift mid-season and will’s goal throughout stays the same, which is to find the copycat killer/chesapeake ripper while simultaneously trying to find himself during his sessions with hannibal. i.e no one really says ‘s1a’ and ‘s1b’, it’s all just s1. that being said, I personally have a system of breaking down s1 because I think there are small shifts present throughout the season regardless, even if they’re more minor. this is how I do it:

episodes 1-4 (initial set-up): sets up main themes/concepts the show explores + sets up will’s character by mirroring his psychology with each of the killers (and his foil dynamic with hannibal).

episode 5: transition between initial set up and friendship arc. out of all the killers so far (excluding hobbs) the angel maker reveals the most about will directly.

episodes 6-8 (friendship arc): sets up hannibal and will’s relationship more closely, with specific focus on hannibal’s masks (the psychiatrist vs the chesapeake ripper) and person suit. he destroys the two extremes of his personality (represented by franklyn and tobias) and chooses will despite himself. the rest of the show follows the consequences of this choice.

episode 9: transition between friendship arc and encephalitis arc. after the angel maker, the totem maker (interesting that they’re both “makers”) reveals the most about will directly.

episodes 10-13 (encephalitis arc): end result of everything that’s been built so far, concerning both will and hannibal (as observed through the first two mini arcs, the first focusing on will and the second focusing on hannibal). we look into will’s neuroses and understand his nature, separating him from hobbs, gideon, and georgia (note that the latter two are explored through the water/fire symbols, tying them together). hannibal also becomes semi-aware of the conflict between his need for love and want for control. this could also be described as their mutual “coming to awareness” arcs. by the end, both their s1 person suits (the most “human” aka morally acceptable/meek personas) are destroyed, and we’re left to explore their “monster” sides in s2.

I hope this helps and thanks again for the ask !!

#I want to break down s2 and s3 more closely tbh #like I did with s1 #because even though they both follow the a/b plot structure there would definitely be smaller nuances throughout #I also want to break down will’s character more thoroughly because his progression in s1 is so insane to me #I love how the show plays with unreliability #I need to finish rewatching s3 to do this properly though #also want to talk more about how the show uses doubles to explore will and hannibal’s relationship because every minor character is relevant #actual insanity <3 #ask response #nbc hannibal #hannibal #will graham #hannigram #hannibal meta #ghost speaks

[evakuality]

I’ve been thinking of doing this for a long time, but it kind of got kicked into another gear when I got this ask a while back.  That gives a broad overview of the similarities and differences between these boys, but I’m also interested in drilling down and looking at them as their respective stories progress.  Now I know a lot more about Isak because I have actually seen all the seasons of Skam and have only seen the full season 3 of Druck.  So I’m going to stick to the storylines in their own seasons, but bear in mind that there’s a broader understanding of Isak behind what I’m saying.  Having said that, I did watch those ‘season x but it’s just Matteo’ videos for s1 and 2 of Druck but it’s not really helped a huge deal.  I don’t feel like I have that good a handle on his character as it stood before s3 started.  Anyway, the thing about these characters is how fascinating it is that they share a lot of similarities (of course, since Matteo is based on Isak) and yet they’re very different and their stories play out in quite different ways.  So I decided to take a look at why this has happened.  Episode by episode because as usual I’ve been very wordy.

Season 3 introductions: From the start, we get some very different vibes from the two of them.  The music chosen to set the scenes for each is interesting from this point of view.  Isak’s is ‘LiQR’ which holds suggestions of needing social lubricant to enjoy the situation.  And indeed, there is a lot of that on display: people drinking, smoking etc to enable them to enjoy the party.  Matteo’s, by contrast, is ‘turning me on’ with it’s heavy suggestions of sex.  That also plays out.  Lots of sexually charged behaviour happens before we see him and even when he meets up with the boys it’s all very explicitly sexual.  I think in a lot of ways, these things set up how the seasons play out.  Isak does need to learn how to rely on himself rather than the easy drug and alcohol-fueled flippancy he’s been used to hiding behind.   By the end of the season he’s much more secure in his own sense of self and we see much less dependence on those social lubricants.  Matteo has been holding back from his life, including sexually, staying on the edges of those conversations etc (and it’s interesting that when he blows up later in the season at the boys it’s sex talk that he targets as the way they piss him off), and I don’t think it’s a coincidence that Matteo waits til the last episode before this is something he really explores.

Then we get the actual introductions of each of the boys.  Isak’s in a bathtub surrounded by his friends, outside of the party which is what we see first.  Matteo is at the party, but on the wall.  He’s isolated himself not just from the schoolmates but also from his friends who at this point are in the bathtub together.   Isak is far more integrated into the boys’ conversation than Matteo is, and seems to be far more consciously deploying the ‘I’m a straight guy’ cover.   Matteo, as we see later in this episode, almost falls into the pretence without his own impetus, whereas Isak very definitely uses it to convince the boys.  There’s a reason for this: Matteo has fallen into a reluctant relationship with his Sara and is still in it.  Isak has removed himself from the relationship with his Sara, and has no ties at all with Emma.  In fact, he uses her as his cover story before we meet her.  Once she’s there, he has to carry through with it or he risks losing his mask with his friends.  It’s very obvious that he’s only doing this for their sake by how quickly and how thoroughly he pulls back as soon as they’re gone.  Matteo is still with his Sara, and we see him with her before we see him with the boys.  He’s dragged into it by her but doesn’t want to be there at all, and yet he plays along.  He seems kinder at the start (not to say Isak isn’t kind, but he hides that side of himself a lot more at the start of the season), and he doesn’t want to hurt Sara at all.  Isak’s ‘insult her to intrigue her’ thing isn’t something I can see Matteo doing at all, even if he wasn’t already connected to Sara in a deeper way than Isak is to Emma.  

The interesting thing here is that, despite the very deliberate facade Isak is wearing, Isak has a real connection with his friends and he has a happy enough life.  I get the feeling that if Even hadn’t come along, Isak was reasonably happy with how things were.  He may be tired of the pretence but it isn’t affecting his ability to engage in the rest of his life.  For example, Isak has a much longer time with the boys in the bath and he’s much more present in the conversation.  Matteo is very quiet by comparison, and is faced with explicit sex talk immediately, while Isak’s boys are much less forthright at this point (again, this ties into sex being part of Matteo’s learning curve; that’s all part of being present in his own life by the end).   Part of this is because Matteo is isolating himself, putting himself on the edges and he quite clearly doesn’t really enjoy his life.   From the start,  Matteo is a lot softer with less hard edges, and so he feels a lot of the things in his life more obviously than Isak does.  He’s also a lot more internalised than Isak is, even though they are both fairly clearly introverts.

Matteo has already gone through getting with Sara, so his comments to the boys about things with her are all vague; he has no need to convince the boys of his heterosexuality as he’s already got the cover he needs.  Isak has to ‘perform’ in front of the boys to make good on his boasts, and indeed he has to make the boats in the first place to let them know he’s into girls when they question him.  This is partly his own fault: he talks up his chances and talks a good talk so when Emma arrives he’s put on the spot.  Still, even though the situations for each here is different, they’re both left alone with their own thoughts when the boys leave.

Interestingly, they’re both isolated and unhappy at the end of the bathroom section, but how they get there is different.  Isak is there because of Emma and how that whole little farce had felt (pretty awful as it went on and he was left alone with her), whereas Matteo was already there before he got into the room and lets it out properly once the boys have left and he can be alone.  Neither of them has any focus on the girls they’re with at this party; Isak is performing for the boys, and Matteo is so tuned out he can’t wait to get away from Sara.  He’s not performing here, just genuinely totally not into it.  They both reject sexual advances from the girls, though at different points in this episode.  Emma has literally just met Isak and wants to go down on him, which flusters him because she’s just supposed to be an easy cover and not this forward this soon.  Later in the episode, Sara wants to seal their newfound relationship with sex.  Both boys are visibly uncomfortable (to the audience) with the idea and find ways to get out of it.  Both girls don’t recognise how uncomfortable the boys are, though Sara seems to get it faster.  She just always manages to talk herself out of it.

Getting the weed is different too.  Isak’s boys are arguing about who ‘has’ to take it, whereas Matteo keeps it as a way of teasing when Abdi wants it back.  They both have different responses to the police as well.  Isak’s not at his own place, and just wants to get rid of the weed.  Matteo fobs off responsibility for talking to them (but only after Linn also does), and plants the weed on Amira.  Matteo’s actions are far more shitty to the person who confronts him about it, though both are shitty in trying to hide it somewhere that it will come back to bite someone else if found.  This of course means Isak doesn’t know what happened to his weed, whereas Matteo does which in turn changes how they go about getting it back.  

Isak in general is far more glib, able to use his wit to get himself out of trouble (eg with the police the way he talks to Emma etc), apart from the disastrous story he tries to spin Eva to get the weed back from her.  Matteo is much less vocal even with his friends, and therefore less able to talk his way out of things.  They both end the clip (or start the next one) with their Jonas, but Isak’s much more bro-ish.  He seems by this point to be over whatever it was that he felt for Jonas.  Whereas Matteo is very clearly still pining.  This of course changes how they approach their love interests.  Matteo seems hit by a truck, whereas Isak is flustered again.   Isak sees Even in a very public place, catches his eye across a crowded cafeteria and immediately tunes out everything the others are saying.  He’s ready, I think, to find this overwhelming big passion, the thing that will force him to drop his carefully cultivated mask.  Matteo, on the other hand, is tuned out of his life already, moving once again away from his friends, going through the motions of the day.  He wakes up suddenly when David appears.  He doesn’t need to break a facade at all; he’s a bit more self aware I think, in terms of accepting who he is.  So, what he needs is someone to push him out of his apathy and make him face life.

The social media stuff the morning after the party is interesting too.  Isak is included and involved even if Eskild insults him a bit; he’s cuddled up with the others while they talk to Noora.  Matteo leaves before they take the picture and so is once again excluded, even from his own bedroom, though again this is a deliberate choice he makes when Jonas and Hans are talking.   Matteo flinching away from Jonas when Hans comes in is fascinating too.  He’s hiding everything he’s feeling and it’s part of what’s isolating him so much.  We see Isak consciously deploy a persona to cover up for who he is, so he puts himself out there almost as a larger than life version of himself.  But Matteo doesn’t want that; his preference is to fade so far back into the shadows that no-one ever notices him and he does everything he can not to be noticed and not to be seen as different.  

Having said that, Matteo is a lot more proactive in some ways than Isak (again, not to say Isak isn’t, but Matteo takes more action even at this point).  It’s his choice to go and talk to Amira and try to get the weed back.  This is partly because he knows exactly who has it and Isak doesn’t, but it plays out over the rest of the season as well.  He’s an odd mix, actually, because he’ll let people tell him what he should think and he’s passively willing to go along with Sara but I think it’s because it doesn’t really matter to him.  When it does matter, he’s all action and quite determined.  Isak will be proactive in defence of his mask or persona, but he doesn’t do much about pushing in other ways.  This is seen quite clearly at the kosegruppa meeting vs the abistreich meeting.  Isak slips away, sure, but he follows Even outside and kind of lets the conversation come to him.  For the first half, Even is definitely the leader and Isak follows, even if he picks it up more in the second half.  Matteo, by contrast, speaks to David first, gets him to come along with him to the hallway and is the one offering weed.  While they both take an active part in their respective conversations, Matteo is more of a leader definitely at the start.  David does eventually engage further in the conversation and gives as good as he gets, but Matteo is the driver for a lot of the first half.  

So that’s the first episode.  Clearly, while our boys have some similarities and their stories are still mostly the same at this point, the differences in the way they are presented and the way they react have already turned up some big contrasts.  It all boils down to what each has to learn, and as I said earlier, for Isak that’s to open up to himself in a more real and authentic way.  To drop the mask and be true to himself.  For Matteo that’s how to re-engage in life and stop hanging on the sidelines letting things passively come to him.  They both actually make some progress with this stuff in this episode, but they both have a long way to go.

Episode two can be found over here.

#druck #skam #my meta stuff #my isak and matteo comparison stuff

[addictedtostorytelling]

Hello ! I just saw your reblog of a daredevil gif and, do you have an head canon on wether or not Matt and Karen would have been back together and how , if the show had been renewed ? Thx !

hey, anon!

i will admit that few things in television baffle me as much as the way the defendersverse powers that be approach romantic pairings.

don’t get me wrong: i generally like the love stories told in this fictional universe. 

i just also don’t know exactly what to make of them.

usually, even without possessing any foreknowledge as to how each individual ship will pan out, i can still be relatively certain as to whether or not a given story world “believes in great loves.” 

but with the defendersverse, i’m not quite sure. 

that so, my short answer here is: i don’t know whether or not karedevil would have gotten back together, had daredevil been renewed. on the one hand, i feel like they were kind of set up to be endgame from the beginning. but on the other hand, i feel like as the wider defendersverse developed, there were also other viable options introduced for the both of them. 

ultimately, i think it would have come down to how the powers that be conceived of the story universe overall—and whether they were interested in telling structured, trope-compliant love stories or not.

more discussion if you click the “keep reading.”

___________ 

a big part of my uncertainty regarding how the defendersverse treats romances stems from the fact that its shows end mid-story, skewing my perspective of what’s there. 

none of the shows has more than three seasons to their names, and all were cancelled abruptly, without really affording the writers a chance to implement final conclusions. they all suffer for having loose strings, never to be tied.

consequently, it’s hard to tell which broken-up ships of the defendersverse were actually broken-up for good and which ones were just at a midgame impasse and might have later reconciled, had they only been given more time and narrative space in which to do so. 

however, another obstacle to making this determination is not in the circumstances but in the storytelling itself, as the defendersverse powers that be tended to be fairly indiscriminate in how they used romantic devices surrounding their ships, which means that a lot of the usual “midgame” vs. “endgame” signposts in this story world are blurred. 

in the first seasons of both dd and jj, the defendersverse powers create deep and compelling romantic relationships for their respective main characters, playing to all kinds of familiar “this relationship has long-term significance” tropes.

you want the jaded female superhero who’s given up on both love and the world, who then meets a guy who’s both so good and so good for her that she has to reevaluate her priorities? check.  

you want the male superhero who rescues the girl-next-door in body, only to have her rescue him in soul? check again.

there’s all sorts of smiles, talk of “before you, i never allowed myself to think about this kind of stuff,” heartfelt sacrifices, expressed vulnerabilities, etc., etc., etc.

in a story world that “believed in great loves,” no one who watched these seasons could be faulted for thinking that jessica jones would be endgame with luke cage and that matt murdock would be endgame with karen page.

the question, however, is, “is the defendersverse actually a story world that believes in great loves?”

in my mind, the evidence is ambiguous.

at most, the defendersverse powers only allow these relationships to progress for one or two seasons before dismantling them—but whether they mean to dismantle them temporarily or permanently is difficult to say.

the characters lead such complicated, dangerous, and ethically fraught existences that whatever happiness they experience in love is generally and perhaps unavoidably short-lived. 

as secret identities are revealed, moral stances compromised, trauma experienced and assessed, and heroic stakes raised, their relationships inevitably crumble under the pressure.

this crumbling could perhaps speak to this fictional universe being one in which all loves come with an expiration date printed on them, with none being given special narrative priority over any of the others.

however, the crumbling could also be a story component.

maybe the writers planned these breakups, knowing full-well they were temporary and that eventually the couples would get back together in the long term. maybe they’re just a midgame detour en route to the final endgame.

so cut to the next leg in defendersverse development, when tptb reshuffle the pairings between their main properties, sending character a from show 1 to be with character b from show 2. the process then continues and multiplies as more properties are added to the ‘verse, with characters spinning off into new shows and coupling in new and increasingly intricate permutations with one another.

of course, the truly interesting thing is that once these reshufflings take place, the new relationships created often prove just as deep and compelling as the relationships which preceded them and are marked by just as many typical endgame signposts.

matt murdock is willing to die for elektra and very nearly does so.

karen page repeatedly throws caution to the wind to choose frank castle over public opinion, common sense, and even her own well-being.

there are indicators to suggest that these new pairings could be endgame, just as there were with the ones before them. there’s deep connection. there’s ride-or-die stuff. there’s cuteness. there’s even potentially destiny. 

so, as a trope-savvy fan, one is left thinking, “well, okay, if the first pairing wasn’t endgame, then maybe the second one will be,” but then by the next season, the second pairing has often been dismantled much in the same way that the first one was previously.

a salient example here would be claire temple’s various relationships: in s1 of dd, her involvement with matt murdock ends because his vigilantism and masochism drives a wedge between them. after their falling out, she eventually starts dating luke cage. while she and luke are devoted to each other through much of lc s1 and the defenders miniseries, their relationship crumbles at the end of lc s2, when luke’s attitude toward “justice” prompts claire to ask him for “a break.” her second relationship within the defendersverse thus ends much in the same way that her first one did: with claire stepping back from her man because she finds his intense approach to heroism unhealthy.  

by the point of cancellation, the net effect is that because all of these relationships have in some ways been treated as “sacred,” none of them feels sacred overall, or at least not definitively. 

i can’t really look at them and say, “karedevil is the endgame; mattlektra is the midgame”—and especially not when elektra keeps miraculously resurrecting after she’s killed—because both ships have been set up in ways which suggest lasting significance.

i also can’t look to the comics as a cheat sheet, because while most of the relationships depicted in the defendersverse do have some basis in comic lore, the shows themselves don’t strictly adhere to that canon—and, in some cases, actively go against it.

in the new avengers comics, jessica jones and luke cage get married and have a daughter, but in the defendersverse, their relationship is pretty thoroughly trashed in the aftermath of jj s1.

still, where things get truly complicated is in the way that these various relationships interact with one another within the wider defendersverse.

if luke cage is jessica jones’s great love, but he is also claire temple’s great love, then someone is bound to lose out, right? and since the audience should in theory be sympathetic to all three characters, who are we supposed to be rooting for? likewise, if matt murdock ends up with karen page, then she can’t be with frank castle, you know? so does that mean matt has to be with elektra? but what if elektra dies (and for once stays dead)? then what?

the writers are playing “musical chairs” with their ships, but, as per the game, it would seem that someone is going to be left standing at the end.

so.

all of this discussion is a very long way for me to say that i genuinely have no idea what the defendersverse powers intended for romantic karedevil.

they are initially set up using many of the same tropes and storytelling techniques that would be used for an endgame pairing—but that framing only matters if the defendersverse is one where “endgame” is actually a legitimate thing that the writers are actively working toward.

it could be that matt and karen were meant to be a slow burn endgame, but the writers got cut-off midway through telling their story, before they could be romantically reconciled after their midgame falling out.

however, it could also be that, whether they were initially interested in creating a karedevil endgame or not, by s3 of dd, the writers had moved on from the possibility of romantic karedevil altogether, being more enticed to pair karen off with frank due to deborah ann woll’s unexpectedly good chemistry with jon bernthal.

of course, maybe endgame karedevil was never even on the table at all, either because it was always meant to be a midgame ship OR because this isn’t a fictional universe that is geared toward endgames, period.

“endgame” is a concept somewhat antithetical to how comic books work, as there’s always going to be another iteration and another series and another run, and the details will change, depending on who’s doing the writing and which universe the story takes place in; maybe the defendersverse was working on a similar model, where while matt murdock has history with many women, including claire temple, karen page, and elektra, he’ll never be tied one woman forever; his love life will always be a revolving door, depending on what suits the purposes of the story.

or maybe nothing had been decided yet, one way or another.

maybe the powers were more writing from season to season, keeping their options open, seeing what was available to them.

after all, there were a lot of moving parts in play across the wider ‘verse. 

who’s to say what might have happened had some of the defenders shows been cancelled but not others? who’s to say what might have happened due to the changing availability of various actors?

prior to the cancellations, rosario dawson had decided to step down from playing claire, a decision which would have undoubtedly sent ripples across the entire defendersverse, romance-wise.

up until the point when netflix pulled the plug, all sorts of possibilities were still open. there were still so many ways the writers could have chosen to swing things.

as for my personal headcanon (regardless of writer intention or what might have been), i should preface my thoughts by saying that while i enjoy karedevil, they’re not my number #1 preferred ship for either matt or karen, so i would have been perfectly happy with them as a midgame romantic ship that eventually reverted back to a platonic baseline, as per the end of dd s3.

that said, i can definitely see a road that leads to them getting together in the end.

my thoughts are these:

by the end of dd s3, matt and karen are back to being friends again after having been “fallen out” for a long time. since s2, karen has known matt’s secret identity, but now matt likewise knows about karen’s past, meaning that, in a way, the playing field is level between them.

still, their relationship is somewhat fragile. 

for the first time in their history, they’ve been honest with each other, and now neither one of them can “hide” in the ways that they used to. they’re both highly aware of this new vulnerability, and neither one of them wants to screw things up. they’re still sussing out what it will mean for them to work together again.

they don’t want to leave foggy caught in the middle of things like before.

so with that in mind, i see their romantic reconciliation as a slow burn process.

of course, they’ve always had a palpable connection, and that connection would be there from the start, even when they were working hard at “just being friends.” 

gradually, that connection would grow stronger and more impossible to ignore. 

there would be moments when they were working late nights together (after foggy had gone home to marci) when they’d stumble on a lead in their case and start talking excitedly, finishing each other’s thoughts, drawing closer and closer together, until suddenly they realized that there was only an inch of space between their faces and had to pull back, awkward and businesslike once more.

there’d be times when their clients would mistake them for a couple, and they’d laugh and try to brush it off but both be blushing too much to truly convince anyone that they were unaffected by the suggestion.

eventually, they’d start testing the waters—matt purposefully saying flirtatious things, karen touching matt more than she had reason to.

at some point, they’d have to broach the subject.

maybe matt would have taken to walking karen home after work, and one night, after a lot of laughter and arm-holding, she’d stop on the top stair and turn back to him and say, in that breathless, incisive way of hers, “i know you can hear how fast my heart is beating. is yours beating fast, too?” 

but, of course, since their relationship doesn’t exist in a vacuum, matt would probably be on the trail of bullseye or some other villain by this point, and, inevitably, these other story factors would come into play. 

i don’t know exactly how everything would go down, but my sense as a storyteller is that something would have to impede karedevil’s relationship; the path to reconciliation would, by necessity, have to be a long and wending one for them.

maybe for whatever reason they’d decide not to risk their friendship by pursuing a romance.

or maybe they would pursue a romance, only to have that relationship endangered by whatever villain they’re up against OR to have some of their past interpersonal issues resurface.

(for example, maybe as matt gets deeper and deeper into whatever case he’s working, he starts to emotionally shut karen out again, or maybe karen starts to distrust matt because he’s being evasive; etc.)

hell, maybe elektra turns up in hell’s kitchen, flipping their dynamic on its head.

after all, elektra’s body was never found after the destruction of midland circle, and karen has never gotten to talk to matt about finding elektra in his bed in s2; the potential for angst would be huge.

in any case, i imagine that things would deteriorate for a while—maybe to the point where, if they were already together, karedevil might once again break up.

but, ultimately, something would happen that would remind them of the depth of their feelings for each other—one of them would be hurt or captured or undergo another near-death experience; matt might end up fighting elektra to save karen; or karen might do something to help matt, even though they’d been on shaky ground before.

i don’t think karen would ever make matt give daredevil up completely—because she understands his thirst for justice and even his recklessness, to some degree, and she doesn’t begrudge him those parts of himself—but i think that in the end, matt would have to change; he’d have to become less self-loathing and not compartmentalize his feelings to the extent he always had before. he’d have to start to care more about his own life and well-being than he had in the past so that karen didn’t have to worry about him committing passive suicide via superherodom.

dying for a cause is one thing; dying just because you can and because you don’t value your own life enough to take self preserving actions is another.

karen would also have to learn to trust that matt and not to hide things from him. she’d have to learn to be truly emotionally intimate with him, which would be difficult for her at first, considering that she’s spent her whole adult life holding back important parts of her person.

(one of the interesting things about karedevil is that even though they have this deep, implicit understanding of each other, for most of their relationship, they’ve not really known each other, as both of them have been hiding significant secrets.)

i can see an endgame for them where matt is daredevil with karen’s help and blessing, and she provides him grounding and solace, while he proves to her that, despite her prior experiences, not everyone in her life is going to reject her and send her away; he knows her, and he knows her past, and he’s staying for as long as she wants him.

of course, in all fairness, i can also see many endings for these characters that don’t involve them being in a romantic relationship with each other; this is just one of the possibilities.

anyway,sorry i can’t give a more definitive answer, anon! thanks for the question.

#answered #anon #** #let's talk shop #my meta #meta: daredevil #daredevil #matt murdock #karen page #asks: daredevil

[lightsandlostbells]

why I’m not keen on Evak 2.0

fredweasleying replied to your post

“Skam Italia episode 7 reaction”

Im italian and i have the same opinions mostly....why dont you want an evak 2.0 tho im curious!!

Hi, I’m sorry for taking some time to respond! I was feeling a little sick this week and I have a long answer for this question, lol.

The main reason I don’t want an Evak 2.0 is because is that, well, I feel that Evak 1.0 is about as perfect a canon ship you can get in execution, and S3 has no major flaws for me - I only have one gripe of any substance (having to do with Emma outing Isak) and it doesn’t ruin the season for me or anything. Personally I didn’t want any of the seasons to be direct remakes and would vastly have preferred new stories tailored to the culture, with new characters developed around the actors’ personalities and strengths, but there’s not anything we can do about S1, and at least one S2 remake is mid-season, with more being set up. And I believe the contracts required the remakes to do S1 and S2 of the original? But S3 is not a guarantee. Anyway, S3 and Evak had some weird magic going for it where everything worked. Very rarely have I seen a fandom react with near-universal praise and satisfaction toward something, especially a canon ship. Obviously not everyone is going to love S3/Evak but I think it’s hard to deny that they’re overwhelmingly well-received. Not just by fans, either. I’ve seen professional film and TV critics gush about S3, too. Much of S3′s success comes from elements that can’t be replicated just by following the outline of the original. 

The chemistry is hands down pivotal to the success of S3. I can guarantee you that, strength of the writing and directing aside, if those two actors aren’t fantastic together, then the season is just not going to work. Imagine two actors with no chemistry doing all the bed scenes, or the kitchen scenes, or the O Helga Natt scene. It would be so awkward. I think OG Skam overall did really well with cast chemistry, and Tarjei and Henrik’s chemistry was really something special - you can see little things in their body language, the way they mirror each other, turn toward each other, come up with unique gestures for each other that make them seem more real as a couple.  They react to each other and feed off the other’s performance rather than just performing a script. I think it’s going to be extremely difficult to find actors who are even remotely as good with each other. (And frankly this is harder with gay fictional couples due to possible biases in their depiction ... I want to believe the best of the remake production teams but I’m not gonna lie, until I see it in action I’ll be a little apprehensive that they won’t let their Isak and Even be as affectionate together as the original. Even “progressive” shows can display double standards about that.)

You need a seriously gifted actor to play Isak. Not that you don’t need talent for all the characters, but there are quite a few scenes where Isak just looks at stuff on his computer, or gets a text message, or talks on the phone with someone, and you need an actor who can clearly communicate what Isak is feeling without help from other actors or stimuli. Then of course there are the bigger emotional moments, but Isak is a very internal, very vulnerable character for much of the season. As far as the remake Isaks go, Lucas hasn’t felt that believable to me in most scenes and his facial expressions/subtlety are especially what have left me cold, and I like Martino but his performance doesn’t feel that vulnerable to me yet. Matteo from Druck is the one who seems most capable of being Isak-like but IDK what’s up with Druck. I am very willing for these actors to show me excellent performances in the future, I’m just aware that they have a lot to live up to.

You need a seriously gifted actor to play Even. This could make or break the Evak pairing in the remakes, perhaps. I would argue that you need more acting chops to play Even than to play any of the other love interest characters in Skam, because you need someone who can pull off depression and mania convincingly. That’s really tough subject matter and someone who isn’t up to the challenge could potentially make the character a parody or caricature, the last thing you want to do in a season with positive mental illness rep. You also need someone who can walk the tightrope of carrying a big secret through most of the season while still being charming and sympathetic even as we’re stuck in Isak’s POV, being hurt and confused by Even’s unexplained behavior. We need to have some trust in Even. It will be hard to root for Evak if the Even seems like he’s just messing around with Isak and lacks that core sweetness and sincerity. Personally speaking, I never ever doubted that Even’s feelings for Isak were genuine, even when he was ghosting and giving mixed signals, because honestly, Henrik’s heart-eyes were just that convincing, lol.

Some of the symbolism and richness of the original’s writing and directing will be lost no matter what, if they stick to the S3 script. 

For instance, 21:21 does not make sense as birth/rebirth symbolism if the character is not named Isak/Isaac/some variant. Of course the story can still continue and make sense on a surface level, but it will lose aspects that gave the writing additional depth. One reason of many that I love S3 is because the symbolism gives the story so much more weight. It makes Isak and Even’s relationship feel much more important than just a sweet teenage romance. Not to sound ultra corny, but presenting Isak’s love for Even as a form of spiritual rebirth feels downright profound and puts it up there with the “epic love stories” that Even likes, tragedy or not.

The Romeo + Juliet references are not going to make as much sense if they can’t, say, get the rights to the music from the original. Like … if you do a close remake with the pool kiss, and it might be a pretty scene, but you’re going to need some R+J music over it for it to have the same resonance. But then, lol, the scene will be too similar to the OG scene. The R+J references weren’t just fun Easter eggs for the viewers; they were woven into the story very thoroughly and thoughtfully. Even’s love of Baz Luhrmann tells us a lot of about personality and outlook on life. It gives us an idea of his romanticism but also hints at his depression. Thematically, R+J is hugely important in terms of creating tension and suspense throughout the season, that undercurrent of “epic love stories have to be tragic” and making the viewers expect the tragedy, only to subvert that expectation. A story about suicide becomes a story about rebirth.  

They should not even bother trying to redo O Helga Natt, man. Just don’t do it. They’re going to lose a lot of the symbolism anyway. 

There’s some other stuff but IDK, there’s just … so much that can go wrong. The Evak relationship feels really specific - they have so many inside jokes that are unique to them, so many recurring themes, so many little gestures, and they all work together as part of a whole. Copying them wholesale is going to feel artificial. Some of the remakes have handled the adaptation part better than others, but there’s some stuff that I just don’t think will work as 2.0 at all.

Since we’ll likely be getting an Isak season in each of the remakes - it was such an international draw that I can’t imagine it not happening for each remake that is renewed - what I really want is for them to write their own S3 featuring a coming out story, with the same care and detail as Evak, and covering similar themes, just ... not Evak. Not the same scenes, the same dialogue, the same characterization. Make Even have a totally different personality. I wrote a post about different films they could reference in S3 other than Romeo + Juliet, and like, I wrote it as a joke, but also? They should pick different movie references for S3 if they decide to incorporate them. Perhaps they could pick iconic Italian/French/German films from the country of that remake. Think carefully about the story and weave in different symbolism. Just recreating those motifs will be the ultimate sign of a remake’s laziness.

I do think S3 is very important in terms of the issues discussed, and I think it would be wonderful for youth in different countries to get the LGBT and mental illness representation. I would just prefer if they created something thoughtful and original rather than trying to recreate something that’s already considered a masterpiece by many critics and fans.

#fredweasleying #skam remakes #evak