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mango-unit · 2 months

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something about termina, lorule, demise, and the flames of the dark rites

ok so i was thinking about the sword of demise and the goddess sword

the goddess sword is the blade of the goddess hylia, and is also the sword spirit fi, who is capable of dowsing. this capability is what allows her to track zelda, the reincarnation of hylia.

the sword if demise is the blade of the demon king demise, and is also the sword spirit ghirahim, who has the capability to track zelda, the reincarnation of hylia. this implies some dowsing ability.

in its default form, the goddess sword bears little resemblance to the blade of demise. however, when tempered in the sacred flames of the golden goddesses, it becomes the master sword.

both blades (masyer sword and sword of demise) feature winged hilts, embedded gems, and depictions of the triforce engraved in the steel. the sword of demise is very clearly a demonic counterpart to the master sword - although it was fully forged first. also, its triforce is upside down.

considering that hylia and demise have parallel blades, it is a fair assumption that demise is the demonic parallel to hylia, and was granted the role of king by some greater entities (just as hylia was). i revisit this later once i have some more laid out, bear with me.

it is also a fair assumption that, as the blade of demise resembles the master sword more than the goddess blade, it was similarly tempered in demonic flames.

and i think ive got a pretty strong contender.

the sacred flames are three flames containing the power of the golden goddesses. the flames of the dark rites are three flames containing the power of the demons. in fact, there are theories that the flames of the dark rites are actually the origin of all demonic power, although i dont subscribe to it.

i believe that there are three dark demons, just as there are three golden goddesses. the sacred flames contain the power of the golden goddesses, and embody the virtues of power, wisdom, and courage. the flames of the dark rights contain the power of the dark demons, and embody the virtues of destruction, sorrow, and despair.

i believe that demise tempered his blade in the flames of the dark rites, just as link tempered hylias blade in the sacred flames. this is why the sword of demise resembles the master sword so closely.

these dark demons, the parallels to the golden goddesses, left demise in charge of their domain, just as the golden goddesses did to hylia.

and, just as the golden goddesses created the light realm (hyrule and its sister kingdoms), the dark demons created the dark realm (lorule and its sister kingdoms). this connects to the master sword and demise sword - the master sword features the triforce of light (embodying wisdom, courage, and power) while the demise sword features the triforce of dark (embodying sorrow, despair, and destruction).

the gods rule the light realm. the demons rule the dark realm.

the triforce of dark, bearing the virtues of destruction, sorrow, and despair, was the original triforce of lorule. it, due to it having corrupted virtues, pointed towards the ground. just as the golden goddesses left behind the triforce (to sustain the light realm) and the sacred flames, the dark demons left behind their triforce (to sustain the dark realm) and the flames of the dark rites. the golden goddesses placed hylia in charge of the light realm; the dark demons placed demise in charge of the dark realm.

due to the dark realm being founded upon more corrupted virtues, the people were more cruel and paranoid. because of this, the primary settlement of the kingdom isnt even named - its just a town for thieves to rest before they head back out to rob and crime. i believe that this led to the era of chaos, the war over the triforce, happening much earlier than it would have in the light realm, even without demises interference. i will revisit this.

as for the actual layout of the dark realm, just to cover some bases.

look at the eastern border of termina and the western border of lorule

to the southeast termina, there is swampy jungle marsh

to the southwest lorule, there is swampy jungle marsh

just north of that marsh in termina is a desert

just north of that marsh in lorule is a desert

to the north of both kingdoms is a mountain range said to be cursed into eternal winter

i believe that termina is directly to the west of lorule. the small bit of desert in lorule connects to the ikana desert of termina, and the curse placed upon the termina range extended to death mountain.

there is more in-game evidence for this, in both albw and majoras mask.

the ikana desert bleeds into lorulian territory, so it would stand to reason there would be some transferred iconography. that is exactly what we see. in the stone tower temple - in the ikana desert - we see depictions of the triforce, being licked by demons. the triforce is right-side-up, if youre talking about the light realm, but its upside down, if youre talking about the dark realm. this would imply some connection with the tower and inversion, since such a key symbol is inverted.

oh wouldnt you know the entire dungeon flips upside down.

so, if we say its an inverted dark triforce, it actually serves as a guide to those who travel through the dungeon: it is a dungeon of inversion. similarly, since its a symbol of the dark demons who created the world, it is a simultaneous depiction of defiance against the gods and worship of the dark demons.

when inverted (resembling the light triforce), a pathetic, naked figure with a forked tongue (a weak demon) is licking the triforce from above. this seems to imply that those who defy the dark demons (the gods, represented by the inverted dark triforce) are lesser than even the weakest of demons.

when oriented correctly (resembling the dark triforce), that same pathetic demon is now below the triforce, straining to lick its tip. this seems to depict how most demons, even those greater than the gods, are still lesser than the dark demons who created the world and struggle for just a small taste of their power. this is a flattering image for their creator deities.

so, now that weve discussed the connection to the lorulian dark triforce in majoras mask, we can now discuss the connection to terminas culture in a link between worlds - although this is even more blatant.

thieves town, on the western edge of the kingdom bordering termina, has a group of people who wear masks depicting the faces of monsters in an attempt to become those monsters themselves.

termina is littered with magical masks that transform its wearer into the monster it depicts.

this seems pretty direct. they picked up the culture or myths of those masks from termina and, seeking salvation from the pain of human life in the dark realm, developed a religion from the concept of transformative masks.

so there is a connection to the other kingdoms culture and icons in both games, and theyre both along the proposed common border with similar geographic features.

now as for the mountains: there is a misconception held by some that the curse on biggoron is what caused the winter on terminas mountain. that isnt the case. the curse on biggoron caused the blizzard, yes; but he was only there in termina in the first place to investigate the endless winter.

the mountains were cursed a significant time before majoras mask, allowing for the time it took for biggoron to learn of the curse and travel to termina; this curse affected death mountain in lorule.

now, i said i would revisit what i said about the era of chaos happening earlier in lorule.

i think that there are two things at play: the dark world, which is more aggressive, had the era of chaos earlier as a result. and the light world, which was attacked by demise, had the era of chaos greatly delayed as a result (the hylians were sent to the sky).

i believe that the lorulian sages destroyed the dark triforce just before the events of skyward sword. the world began to unravel, which prompted demise (the dark realms guardian deity, equivalent to hylia) to seek out a new one. this led him to the light realm - to the triforce left by the golden goddesses.

demise did pretty much the same thing hilda would eventually do, except through much more active bloodshed and conquering. he was fighting to save the world he was tasked with protecting, and he was sealed and killed as a result. his attack led to skyloft, which further delayed the light realm era of chaos (and the sealing of the triforce).

the dark realm was left without a guardian deity. this prompted the giants to offer the people of termina the oath to order. they would sleep in the furthest reaches of the kingdom, and their power would sustain the land - and if the people ever needed their intervention, they could play a song which would awaken them.

they became the new guardians of termina, akin to the role the dragons serve in the light realm. lorule, however, had no being to protect it from the decay caused by the absence of the triforce. so it, slowly, ever so slowly, began to rot.

its probably a good idea to wrap this up now, so im gonna recap everything discussed here really quickly.

- termina is directly west of lorule, both are in the dark world

- the lorule desert is a small section of the ikana desert

- the stone tower temple depicts an inverted lorulian triforce, hinting at its ability to flip

- the thieves town picked up the culture of wearing masks to transform into monsters from termina

- the dark world was created by three dark demons who embodied the virtues of destruction, sorrow, and despair; these virtues were embodied in the dark triforce, and in the flames of the dark rites, the demonic counterpart to the sacred flames

- demise is the dark realm equivalent to hylia, tasked with defending the world

- demise tempered his blade in the flames of the dark rites, as link tempered hylias blade in the sacred flames

- the more aggressive dark realm battles over the triforce earlier, and so destroyed it before the events if skyward sword

- this led to demise seeking out the triforce of the light realm, further delaying the era of chaos in the light realm by forcing the hylians to escape to the skies

- the absence of a guardian being led to the giants delivering the oath to order

#legend of zelda #zelda theory #zelda timeline #skyward sword #master sword #demise skyward sword #golden goddess #loz albw #majoras mask #termina #lorule #triforce #flames of the dark rites

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mango-unit · 3 months

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uhhhhh the interlopers?

ok so this is kind of a crackpot theory here but just bear with me here it goes somewhere

it ties into my theory about the nature of the oocca, the zonai, and prehistoric hyrule (before skyward sword) so im gonna give a quick rundown of that just as a reminder of the key points

the golden goddesses create hyrule. din creates the land, nayru creates science and magic, and farore creates life. (the parella, the kikwi, the mogma, the gorons, and the oocca)

the golden goddesses create the triforce to sustain the land in their absence, place it under the care of the goddess hylia, and then peace out

the oocca found prehistoric hyrule. all races of the surface are united in peace.

technology develops, and the zonai evolve from the oocca.

eventually, the hylians evolve from the zonai; around this time, the oocca and the zonai build the city in the sky, the capital of prehistoric hyrule. they both go to the skies; the hylians remain on the surface.

some stuff about the lanayru province, the wind tribe, and the gerudo. ive hashed that out in two previous posts now so maybe ill refrain this time around. point is, around this time is when the lanayru province is desertified.

eventually demise attacks. hylia sends most hylians up to the sky with the triforce to keep it out of his reach, then goes to war. some hylians remain on the surface during the war, becoming the sheikah. hyrule as a kingdom falls, however - everyone who lived there is either in the skies or dying to monsters.

after (barely) successfully sealing away demise, hylia is drained of much of her power, and would be unable to defeat him again should he return. as such, she creates a twofold plan: she forges the goddess blade and imbues it with the spirit fi, sending it up to skyloft to choose a hero when the time comes, and she vows to reincarnate as a human who will be able to wish upon the triforce for the destruction of demise. (gods cannot use the triforce)

finally skyward sword happens. when the hylians descend to the surface, the zonai follow, helping them to re-establish hyrule; the oocca, however, stay in the skies.

so i kind of skipped over a few things that arent super relevant but the theory im about to present directly regards this timeline.

now lets talk about the interlopers. gonna drop a quote from lanayru

"You must know that it was the will of the goddesses that we lock away the forbidden power…

When all was chaos, the goddesses descended and gave order and life to the world. They granted power equally to all who dwelt in the light, and then returned to the heavens. The lands where the goddesses descended came to be known as the Sacred Realm. For ages, the people lived at ease, content in mind and body…

But soon, word of the Sacred Realm spread through Hyrule, and a great battle ensured…

Among those living in the light, interlopers who excelled at magic appeared. Wielding powerful sorcery, they tried to establish dominion over the Sacred Realm. It was then that the goddesses ordered us three light spirits to intervene. We sealed away the great magic those individuals had mastered.

You know this magic… It is the dark power you seek… the Fused Shadow. O hero chosen by the goddesses… Beware… Those who do not know the danger of wielding power will, before long, be ruled by it. Never forget that…

The dark power that you seek is within the sleeping Lakebed Temple in Lake Hylia…"

Lanayru, Twilight Princess

the light spirit lanayru explains here the story of the interlopers. "among those living in the light, interlopers who excelled at magic appeared." most assume the interlopers were hylian; the twili kind of look like distorted hylians. but lanayru never says hylians, it says "those living in the light."

so, just for a moment, dont assume the interlopers were exactly hylian. but dont assume they were exactly zonai, either, in spite of what im about to show you.

im gonna drop some images for you to check out as you wish.

fashion is shockingly similar. almost identical recurring patterns of thin bands of light. even the architecture itself is pretty much the same. not to mention the fact that the twili look like blue, physically deformed hylians (the deformations more than likely due to their time in the twilight realm)...

i believe theres a high chance that the interlopers, the ancestors of the twili, are the evolutionary mid-point between the zonai and the hylians (they are blue and gray). or, if not that, theyre hylians from prehistoric hyrule, who still share much of the zonai culture and design (the blue-gray skin could also be from the time spent in the twilight realm, much like the physical deformations).

when demise attacked, the hylians were sent into the sky and created their own kind of culture, much more akin to the medieval cultures of germanic tribes that is featured in arthurian myth (which zelda draws heavy inspiration from - the master sword being drawn by the one true hero is a clear parallel to excalibur being drawn by the one true king).

the interlopers didnt do that. they were sent into the twilight realm and held on to the culture they were separated from. most likely due to their intimate connection with magic - the zonai infrastructure is fundamental to their magical tech, as we see in totk. so the twili, keeping hold of their magically-oriented culture without trying to reinvent the wheel, would naturally have similar infrastructure.

so if theres a connection between the zonai and the interlopers (who eventually become the twili), and the zonai werent really present by the time of the hyrulian civil wars (which the interloper battle is widely considered to have been a part of), then whats the deal?

i believe the interloper event happened much earlier than previously thought.

much earlier.

as in, before skyward sword. in prehistoric hyrule.

im going to provide one more account of the creation of the world, just for some additional context:

"Before time began, before spirits and life existed…

Three golden goddesses descended upon the chaos that was Hyrule…

Din, the goddess of power…

Nayru, the goddess of wisdom…

Farore, the goddess of courage…

Din…

With her strong flaming arms, she cultivated the land and created the red earth.

Nayru…

Poured her wisdom onto the earth and gave the spirit of law to the world.

Farore…

With her rich soul, produced all life forms who would uphold the law.

The three great goddesses, their labors completed, departed for the heavens.

And golden sacred triangles remained at the point where the goddesses left the world.

Since then, the sacred triangles have become the basis of our world’s providence.

And, the resulting place of the triangles has become the Sacred Realm."

Great Deku Tree, Ocarina of Time

the key takeaway here is the fact that the location where the triforce was created became the entryway to the sacred realm. i will be incorporating this into the theory to make it cleaner.

with all this in mind, let me adjust that timeline from earlier:

the golden goddesses create hyrule. din creates the land, nayru creates science and magic, and farore creates life. (the parella, the kikwi, the mogma, the gorons, and the oocca)

the golden goddesses create the triforce to sustain the land in their absence; the place where it is created becomes the entryway into the sacred realm, where the triforce is initially stored. the goddess hylia is tasked with watching over the world in their absence.

the oocca found prehistoric hyrule. all races of the surface are united in peace.

technology develops, and the zonai evolve from the oocca. as time passes, the interlopers evolve from the zonai; they are more hylian in shape, but keep the blue and gray skin.

eventually, the hylians evolve from the interlopers; around this time, the oocca and the zonai build the city in the sky, the capital of prehistoric hyrule. they both go to the skies; the hylians and the interlopers remain on the surface. the zonai and the oocca rule the kingdom, and the hylians are the favorite of the goddess hylia; the interlopers are widely considered irrelevant, and are treated as just that: interlopers.

the interlopers begin setting a plan in motion. they develop a mastery over powerful magic, as detailed by lanayru, and attempt to establish dominion over the sacred realm. if the zonai were to be worshipped and the hylians were to be coddled, the interlopers were to be respected as the ultimate arbiters of divine power.

the golden goddesses take notice. the light spirits intervene under their direction. they chase the interlopers across hyrule into the desertified lanayru province, sealing them away in the twilight realm. they consider the matter dealt with.

worried about this close brush with the interlopers, the golden goddesses take the triforce out of the sacred realm and place it under the care of the goddess hylia. finally, they leave the world again, this time permanently.

finally skyward sword happens. when the hylians descend to the surface, the zonai follow, helping them to re-establish hyrule; the oocca, however, stay in the skies.

thats pretty much how it fits into the timeline. one thing i can see being a problem is how the interlopers lost their absolutely massive ears from the zonai, but theres a perfectly reasonable explanation for that. a quote from the alttp manual (literal translation from japanese):

これらの記録書を書き残したハイリア民族は、神の声を聞くことができる選ばれた民でした。

The Hylian people, who left behind these written records, were an elected (chosen) people able to hear the voices of gods.

それゆえ、高い耳を持ち、感覚に優れ、魔法を使いました。

For that reason they were in possession of tall ears, excelled senses, and the use of magic/sorcery.

the hylians (or the zonai, as thats who they inherited the trait from) developed their large ears in order to hear the voices of the goddesses. the interlopers were sealed in the twilight realm, far from the goddesses; as such, the need for such ears vanished. as the twilight altered their forms, the unnecessary trait was dropped.

and yeah, thats basically it. to be perfectly honest im not sure if im on to something here or if this is just another crackpot theory with no weight to it that are all over the internet

#zelda tears of the kingdom #legend of zelda #zelda timeline #zelda theory #skyward sword #twilight princess #interlopers #zonai #oocca #golden goddess #crackpot theory?

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