#Gabriel Agrestes villain backstory comeuppance

[familyagrestefanblog]

Me endlessly rambling about the morality of Adriens plot involvement in “Evolution”, bc DAMN!

In "Evolution" there is one aspect I haven't seen anyone talk about yet which bothers me in how tragic and unspeakably unfair it is: Gabriel is not the only person who missed his chance of being able to safe his family that day, so did ADRIEN.

And that's the core stinger of this show not letting Adrien/Chat Noir actually BE the villains son (yet?). It's one thing that Gabriel, the villain, has fallen so far that he is now unable to make the right decision on his own, but the same wouldn't apply to Adrien. And I also wanna talk about how horrible it is that Adriens father basically turned into a collapsing mess further descending into madness right in front of his sons eyes for the entire episode but Adrien isnt given the chance to maybe make the choice to TRY to reach out and help him.

Disclaimer: My post is NOT about me thinking that Gabriel is owed to have his son at his side to help and save him. No, my concerns and feelings regarding the morality of Adriens involvement are 100% about ADRIEN. Gabriel I only care for in this regard of him “being denied his sons help” in the sense that he is Adriens father. Thats it. My priority, as per usual, is Adrien and what all of this means for him.

Because my goodness if s5 continues like this I seriously have to wonder how Adrien is supposed to be able to life with himself after all of this.

Look, I’m going to take the matter seriously if thats not something for you than this wont be the post for you. I am allowed to talk about the portayed morality of a parent-child relationship in an international very popular family cartoon. I’m pretty certain this is all deliberate set up since the writing made way too many specific decisions regarding these two and the big picture in this episode (and in that case I’m gonna LOVE this) but I still wanna talk about it in the way that reflects the fact that we dont have the rest of the season yet. And in this regard this episode got morally questionable at times.

If this IS something you care about too though, dont let me stop you any further and “read more”

My "problem" ( not really problem since with the right continuation I will love ALL of this, so its a “inbetween-problem” right now. You get it) is not that the writing says that Gabriel doesn't have enough true goodness in him to actually safe his family, or that the Agreste family in the end is beyond saving and not worth it and Adrien will end up happy with the Dupain-Chengs. All of that is not my problem. It's that Adrien is denied every opportunity like this in his plot involvement to be allowed to make the choice of saving his family himself. To at least TRY to have the saving grace influence on his family's fate that Adrien embodies.

"Evolution" is actually the first episode where this problem actively crosses the line for me (which I strongly believe was the intention), cause up til the end of season 4 Gabriel/Hawkmoth (or whatever) wasn't straight up a hurting mess on the battle field who, yes, would desperately need his son on the heros side as a familiar and sympathetic influence when no other hero can or maybe even should, who can reach some of his last remaining humanity and possibly make the small but immense difference in how Gabriels and the Agrestes story ends.

Do not get me wrong, I don't care for Gabriel just for his own sake, I primarily care about his fate because he's Adriens father. I am NOT saying Gabriel deserves a happy ending just because he has a sympathetic reason to have started his villainous doom (I know alot of people will disagree here but respect that I absolutely LOVE these kind of morally complex family stories, about the humanity in inhumanity and abuse, even if it doesn't end in a happy ending. Fuck it, ESPECIALLY if it doesn't end in a happy ending!) but I AM saying that this episode did a phenomenal job at characterizing and portraying Monarque through almost all the very core reason of his fall and the horrible consequences he has brought down on himself.

I 👏Love 👏All 👏Of👏THIS👏

And I don't NEED this (or WANT it) to have an happy ending. But what punched me in the face the entire episode through were moments like this:

Or this:

Or this:

Because in the end of the day you can turn and twist it all you want. Condemn Gabriel, understand Ladybug and the other heros, Paris and the general morality of good and bad all you want; in the end it doesn't change the fact that this is Adriens father and Adriens fate and losses too. And that fact alone deserves proper respect.

Cause again, NOT for Gabriels sake but for ADRIENS.

Adriens father is laying motionless on the ground because Gabriel has fallen so far in his grief, madness and almost completely isolation that he is wrecking himself and frying his own brain with too many miraculous at the same time. And Adrien is narratively denied the opportunity to react like the SON he is in this.

Adriens villain father just gave up and therefore lost the opportunity to make everything right again, safe their family on his own accords but then immediately showed immense regret for the decision he made. And Adrien is narratively denied the opportunity to make the choice to reach out to his fathers very open humanity here and perhaps get to solve the problem in his stead.

Chat Noir was literally entrusted by Ladybug in this episode to wield the Rabbit miraculous. Chat Noir and the Monarque were in the same position. Adrien had just as much the power and the opportunity to go back in time and deliver the stick to his parents in the past (even if Gabriel had told him a different reason for why, fixing the peacock wouldn't have stopped Adrien from existing) as his father did.

But whereas Gabriel lost that chance because of his own actions and decisions, Adrien has lost that chance and even the choice to MAYBE save his own mother, his father, HIMSELF, his family, every victim and all of Paris because he is being kept out of the loop.

Adrien lost just as much as Gabriel in this episode if not even MORE, he just doesn't know it and that is the biggest tragedy of this entire show.

Because the thing is, Adrien loves his family. Adrien loves his father. Even if Gabriel has never and will never deserve his sons love or Adrien himself at his side. It doesn't matter, because this is about ADRIEN.

And ADRIEN has done everything he could in the last 4 seasons to reach his father, see the good in him, and forgive and support him. Reach out, see his fathers perspective and be as good of a son as possible to not make the situation even harder for his father as loosing Emilie already was for them. To grow closer as father and son, become a family again and get the chance of a better future.

Adrien LOVES his father and never wanted to loose him. And Adrien has made countless sacrifices too many to give their family a chance to heal through patience and understanding. Adrien is a PHENOMENAL son and the true saving grace of his family. But he never had the needed knowledge to understand the actual PROBLEM that kept Gabriel from moving on and getting better. To possibly help his fathers good side reach the light again.

No, as the kid this is absolutely not Adriens job, but in a family who goes through such extreme circumstances that shit legitimately gets ugly in too many ways as it happens in real life too, this moral ideal of leaving the child out of it becomes a luxury that sometimes just isn't realistic or affordable even for the kids own sake and can also be morally put into question depending on the context.

And in this context I'm absolutely putting it in question:

There is a difference between what happened here in the episode without Adrien knowing it and Adrien actively making the decision to NOT use the Rabbit power to right his fathers wrong and give their family another chance.

There is a difference between Adrien actively making the choice to distance himself from his villain father even as Chat Noir and leaving him to his self-made demise because that's what Adrien choose to do and sees as morally right in his unique position of having one foot on each side of the war, and Adrien not even getting that choice in the first place.

There is a difference between Adrien choosing to stay on Ladybugs side and stand so actively against his father as her partner when shit goes down so fatally for Monarque like this, and Adrien not knowing what siding with her means in the bigger picture.

There is a difference between Adrien making the choice to not save his mother before giving up the Rabbit miraculous, because unlike Gabriel Adrien actually managed to move on from that loss and does what Gabriel can't, and Adrien not even knowing that he had the power to resolve all of this and save his mother, his father, the miraculous and Paris in a way that wouldn't have hurt anyone (to our knowledge right now)

The difference is that in one case Adrien gets to actively make the choice that is right for HIMSELF, so he can properly adjust his role so he can actually LIFE with himself in the end, whereas in the second case he makes the choices while thinking himself to not be connected to Monarque at all and therefore acts only to the benefit of the general greater good and Ladybug.

And it's the SECOND case that rings true in Canon. Adriens actual position in this still remains completely neglected and he is going to stay without any kind of necessary closure and own moral adjustments to his role and actions in his family's demise. And this leaves Adrien in the position where he will/would simply life to regret his actions or at least beat himself up for it. And those are regrets and grief that no one can rationalize away for him, this kind of guilt stays for a life time. Because how THE FUCK could it not??

Cause for all it is, he is the only person for who the overall truth of the good and evil side of this war is not enough to justify or excuse his actions and behavior. Not in his own eyes. Because Gabriel wasn't just Hawkmoth, ShadowMoth, Monarque or whoever. He wasn't just the evil bad guy, he was his father too. And while Gabriel probably has always been difficult, he sure as hell wasn't THIS (Monarque) for Adriens entire life as we know from Adrien himself:

So everyone else has the luxury to, in the end, make peace with the situation through breaking the grey area down to basic black-and-white thinking, because they have the necessary distance to Gabriel and his motivations to do so.

But you can't just apply the same way of thinking and moral standpoint to Adrien/Chat Noir, he simply ISN'T in the same position as everyone else.

In my opinion it always was Miraculous biggest loss that Chat Noir/Adrien is not allowed to actually BE the villains son with all the amazing character and plot potential that comes with it. But "Evolution" was the first episode where this unused connection actually made me grimance while watching.

Adrien deserves the chance to at least TRY to help his father when its already happening right in front of his eyes!

All of this had a chance of being resolved in peace through Adriens best and defining character traits: his compassion, love and loyalty even in the darkness hours. You have to do a FUCK TON to loose him and there are simply too many moments in this episode where I think Adrien would have tried to help his father to do the right thing for me to not talk about this.

And again, I'm not asking for this to actually have happened this way and have a nice sunshine ending. I'm not saying that Gabriel would have absolutely had listened to Adrien and that things would have turned out fine if only Adrien and Gabriel had found out each others identities somewhere in the borrows. No, I'm not giving Gabriel that much credit, neither as a person nor as a father. We have watched the show til now and what happened when Gabriel found out under different circumstances:

No, I'm never bringing this up for GABRIELS sake, in all of this I care with all of my heart for ADRIEN. And what HE goes through in everything going down on both sides, what HE looses and what this means for HIM because he is the one in the almost agenciless and inescapable position. He is the biggest victim in all of Miraculous and season 5 right immediately started off with an event where Adrien is even more wronged regarding his fathers villain backstory comeuppance than Gabriel himself.

Adrien is the actual tragedy in this very episode and entire show and I can only hope that the show will treat his loss with the respect it deserves. "Evolution" actually gave me alot of hope in this regard because of how it treated Gabriel, the Ladynoir moments, Chat as a hero character in general and of course:

Alix family moments paralleling the Agrestes with another father-hero child bond whose family is being seperated (also interesting to remember is that back in s1 people suspected Alix' father to be Hawkmoth as a second option to Gabriel)

These things are intentional, but I'm still anxious, because DUDE

Adrien being left out of the loop in everything is reaching beyond BRUTAL extends. The Ladynoir and father-son sides of his life have now collided in the most painful way with undoable consequences yet (and on both parts he is still kept basically entirely oblivious to the secrets and offenses being done to him). The morality in all of this is beyond questionable at this point, and simply in particular regarding his damn father. This is fucked up.

I really have to ask how Adrien could ever be able to forgive himself for his family's fate, his mother and especially FATHER'S fate, once he looks back on it concidering how actively INVOLVED he was in all of it. Without getting a choice, proper agency or much needed closure while going through this. Adrien isn't doing nothing here, "Evolution" in particular, the episode of Gabriels villain backstory commupance.

You know what? Screw it, this is theoretically speaking just as much of a damnation backstory set up as the one Gabriel has, just so much worse. His fucking father would be the core reason of why Adrien could never forgive himself for what happened to his family while he himself (unknowingly) took huge active actions in making his father go this far (again, THIS episode for example) when in Adriens eyes his father was in desperate need of help through his grief no matter how inexcusable his actions became. Because Gabriel needed and NEEDS help (and not the one Nathalie gave him, you know the person Adrien gave his father his blessing for to MARRY) and COULD have turned back to the light at some earlier point. And Adrien saw that potential the entire time. And tried to help and reach out over and over again. But he was never able to do it "right".

He would think himself a failure of a son when he only finds out about this when it's way too late and he has to let his father behind who is too far gone. Or a failure of a hero all together for not having noticed and stopped it earlier and to his family and the citizens, when he was in the position to all along. How is he supposed to just let that go when Adriens noose has always and forever been his loyalty and LOVE?

This shit is so messed up on a morality level for Adriens position because Adriens situation just gets worse and worse and he is hardly given any chances to chose to adjust his behavior/actions in a way to his actual circumstances or get any true closure with full context to be able to properly DEAL with this. Because he doesn't know what his actions are causing/ influencing! It wouldn't even be Gabriels abuse or bad influence that would be the core of his tragedy, it's the fact Adrien was denied to get closure of not being able to properly help his father and family. That everything went so catastrophically far and hurt so many people and loved ones and he could have helped "but didn't".

How is Adrien supposed to life with himself after loosing his father like this while he was Chat Noir? In a way that is actually in-character for him and his core principles? Adrien, who is taking the blame for his loved ones in too dangerous degrees just so they have to suffer less? If Adrien knew he would react differently, in ways he wouldn't life to regret or at least hold against himself for how it went down. Fuck, let's go with the scenario: If Adriens love would stop him from being able to let this go he would actually become and have the motivation that Gabriel THINKS he is and has!

Have this go wrong and Adrien will step into his fathers footsteps no matter what any third party (including Ladybug) will say that it wasn't his fault. He will just not be evil while doing it, but just as desperate, lost and haunted by the past. Maybe even more so than his father because Adrien is actually a good person.

Seriously, I know Miraculous has pulled some morally questionable stuff by now (hello season 4), but this episode really made me shallow hard in how far Adrien being left out of the loop is being taken and what the consequences of his actions symbolize. Adrien literally left his father back in the past and he didn't even know it.

I know for most people this is hardly a factor they think is important to concider, but for me it is. The episode put Adrien in too specific of a position, take too consistently brutal actions regarding his fathers backstory comeuppance here, and made him be the one to take the lead and therefore alot would fall back to in Adriens mind if he found out in this one particular episode now.

The writing of the episode made deliberate morally beyond questionable choices regarding Adriens position between Ladybug and his father that just... gut punched me.

Because fucking Christ, Adrien is still being kept in almost complete obliviousness and it made him do things and act in ways I cannot imagine him doing like this if he knew, in way too crucial of a situation regarding his entire civilian familys fate.

And therefore: Fuck, he. Should. KNOW. But he doesn't. And I don't know how Adrien is realistically suppose to life with this. This goes against everything Adriens characters has ever been.

Really, we are entering some seriously messed up moralities now for Adriens position between Ladybug and his father...

#ml spoilers #miraculous #miraculous ladubug #ml season 5 #keeping up with the agrestes #adrien agreste #Gabriel Agreste #Emilie Agreste #ml Evolution #ml 5x01 #ml analysis #Family Agreste fate #Gabriel Agrestes villain backstory comeuppance #somehow managed to wrong HIS SON even more than himself in this episode

[familyagrestefanblog]

Hi! Have you seen the season finale of mlb? If so, what are your thoughts on what happened to Nathalie? Do you think she's now in a coma like Emilie or not? If so, I can't even imagine Gabriel having to break those news to Adrien, he was already connecting Nathalie's illness to his mum... I feel like season four is going to be heartbreaking. I always love to read your theories on the Agrestes.

Yes I indeed have seen the finale, a while ago actually and I have alot of thoughts on Natalies situation and what the future holds so this might get longer (edit several hours later: jup it got longer, enjoy! xD)

I don’t think Natalie is now in the peacock coma but the episode gave me the impression that it was literally 5 to midnight concerning her health. So they really dodged her fate by an INCH by having found a solution to the peacock problem through Fu in this very episode.

I honestly can’t tell you how things will continue from here with Natalies health but I can tell you what I think and would love to see!

For season 4 concerning Natalie I hope she actually stays sick and/or damaged now, the peacock may be fixed (even if I’m having the feeling that it’s not quite as fixed as we think it is. Duusu is too suspicious to me but I digress.)

She and her body got gravely insured and “withered” in season 3, I think it would be a waste and a cop out to just let this situation disappear without letting it have an lasting impact on her because that would take alot of the urgency from Natalies creeping doom in s3 and the finale in particular. Also in my opinion it would be weird if Natalie were to get healed through the fixed Peacock but Emilie stays in her coma. Her being healthy again in s4 just feels wrong to me, she got damaged by an broken object that gets powered up by a God, the damage on her body should be permanently just like Emilie.

But I actually have alot more reasons to believe that she will still be sick in season 4 than just “it feels wrong and would undermine the urgency”.

Let me explain

Why I think this could very much be possible for s4 is (beside the cop out etc reason) is that “the battle for the miraculous” finale was a “save point” mile stone which ended the first status quo from s1-s3. Alot has changed for the future and it’s has changed for good (actually so many little and bigger things have changed that I noticed Im starting a new post here when I tried listing them, so I’ll just keep them out of this post)

So why not Natalies health too? Of course she’ll get quite a bit better again, she will have to be able to do something nonetheless. But concidering that we already know that Natalie WILL end up as a villain worse than Hawkmoth it’s save to say that we have witnessed the origins of her villain story in s1-s3 and that she’ll only get “worse” from here. Alot of factors can come into play with this, from all the set up and forshadowing we have gotten by now I would say it comes down to 4:

Adrien leaving his families side (so her too) after finding out the truth (can we please just accept this now, it’s been literally forshadowed to hell and back). Natalie is shown to have grown into the mama bear/parent role for Adrien and we also know from “Felix” that Adrien would accept Natalie with open arms as his new step mother. So him “betraying” his family would not only hurt Adrien and Gabriel, it would also hurt Natalie like hell (likely Natalie would even be the adult to be more sad-betrayed, I can’t see Gabriel as anything but angry-betrayed. Both of these portrayals are depicted like this in “Chat Blanc”)

“Chat Blanc” has shown us that Gabriel would very much turn even more abusive once he finds out Adrien is Chat Noir (and I personally didn’t find it out of character at all but that’s a topic for an other post) and since Natalie cares alot about Adrien and already doesn’t approve of the risks Gabriel takes with Adrien and how he neglects and treats him often, this change can very much start a fight between her and Gabriel and giving Mayura room to truly stand as her own villain because Natalie betrayed Adrien as well so I hardly doubt they will be on the same side. This family is going to break apart into pieces.

Natalie is madly in love with Gabriel and something kinda starts blooming between them (“miracle queen” once again depicts this change the best) but this doesn’t change the fact that Gabriel wants Emilie back and Natalie knows this. For now I can’t see it happening any different but since we one day will get Emilie back(duh) Gabriel will be in a predicament between Emilie and Natalie but will choose Emilie (all of this is happening because Gabriel wants her back, it would imo make little sense to let him go “I did it all for you but I want a divorce” like, no, just no) and Natalie will not handle this rejection well because after everything she did and risked for him. (I also don’t think Emilie will stay with Gabriel either. I think Gabriel will in the end stand all alone, having driven away Adrien, Natalie and Emilie with his actions, behavior and decisions. Mr. man-with-nothing-to-lose will face his comeuppance but that’s not the point now)

And of course Natalies health. Concidering the points I  listed above of what I think will happen Natalie will turn into a full fleshed villain out of betrayal, loss, desperation, spite and revenge. All the puzzles pieces are in place, it just has to escalate. Throwing in the factor that Natalie has damaged herself and her body so much and irreversible (only Ladybug could heal her but I can’t see Natalie allowing her to heal her once we have reached this level) and the villain backstory and motivation of betrayal is complete. Cuz yes, even if she is a villain by own choice she is also still a victim of certain circumstances. The bad decisions Natalie made are her own choices, she knows what she is doing and is frankly having a damn good time doing it, no doubt, but they are still rooted in Gabriels decisions and full control of the overall situation as I’ve already stated my opinion to this in THIS POST. Natalie staying damaged and having it as a constant reminder of Natalies devotion to Gabriel and to the entire Agreste family who could have become her own new family only to end up alone and with nothing because of Gabriels and her own choices and actions while she drifts deeper into villainy and is bloody brutal and one hell of a villain story I want to see!

Another reason why I don’t think Natalie gets healed any time soon (if at all) is this moment in “Feast”.

Adrien has made the connection between Natalies and Emilies conditions and he’s clearly worried for Natalie. This is a set up for future plot and character development handed on a silver plate. It’s a whole new point of view and will bring us more information about what happened to Emilie and the Agreste past. Everything happening in this show is dealt with in, let’s call them little story arcs, introduced and dealt with when the plot development calls for it. Not every Arc gets continued all the time, some only in special episodes dedicated to this Arc and some (like the love square) are a set in stone Arc for every episode.

THIS was the beginning of a new Arc. A Adrien-Natalie Arc where we see him deal with Natalies illness that reminds him so much of his mothers. Season 3 had so much else to close up, introduce and develop that this Adrien-Natalie Arc was only introduced in “Feast” and that’s alright. But this also means this Arc has to be continued in season 4 and it couldn’t be continued if Natalie were healed after the s3 finale. Therefore she is still sick.

Alright, I don’t know why I escalated so hard here but it was actually quite nice to get this out now and rearrange and collect my thoughts.

I hope you didn’t mind this text wall xD

#Miraculous #Miraculous ladybug #Ml spoilers #natalie sancoeur #ml miracle queen #miracle queen spoilers #Mayura #Peacock miraculous #ml season 3 finale #Ml season 3 #Ml season 4 #Ml theory #Ml sugar #adrien agreste #Chat Noir #Cat Noir #Gabriel agreste #Hawkmoth #le papillon