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the-redeemed-anon · 3 years

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Villains vs Antagonists, what each word means because this fandom uses them as synonyms when they are not

Oh boi, who would’ve thought that this was my debut analysis post on Tumblr for this fandom? Hi, it is I, Redemption Anon from @kateis-cakeis’ blog. This isn’t the post I promised to post first, but this topic has bugged me, especially in the current events. It is time to talk about villains and antagonists, DSMPblr.

Disclaimer before I get into it: I am what would be considered an old dog in this fandom, I’ve watched in a weird way Season 1 while it was still going down, and I officially started lurking on Tumblr through anons on a couple of blogs right at the start of Season 2. It’s just that now I felt the need to make a blog where I analyse stuff. So, I feel like I have some knowledge, albeit imperfect, of characters and events, across the story. Also, I am talking about the characters here, not the CCs. If I mention a CC, their name will be labeled accordingly.

With that out of the way, let’s jump into it.

Now, you may see the words “villain” and “antagonist” being used a lot when discussing the DSMP and other media in general, but the thing is, they are not synonyms, and I feel like a lot of people fail to grasp that, because oftentimes, we have characters that are both at the same time, making the line blurry. Well, let me try to explain my take on these terms.

An antagonist is a person who opposes the protagonist, it’s the rival of the main character, the anchor of the POV that is followed in the story. This usually means that an antagonist can be paired up with the villain role, and the protagonist with the hero role, but it’s not always the case. There are stories where the protagonist is the villain, and the antagonist is the hero (for example, the Genocide Run of Undertale). And even then, there are antagonists that aren’t the villain in the grand scheme of things (for example, you wouldn’t call Gary from Pokemon a villain, would you?) Basically, antagonists are very much POV-centric. In the DSMP, the best example I can give is the BA versus Techno. From Techno’s POV, the BA was his antagonists, while from the BA POV, Techno was the antagonist. Bear in mind, neither party was a villain, or a hero.

A villain is very much a person that serves an evil purpose, the opposing force to the hero of the story, whose actions point to a good purpose. While the hero is the person you are supposed to root for, the villain is the one who is supposed to lose, to not cause a bad ending to your story. The villain and the hero depend a lot on morality. Villains can have downright evil goals, like say, destroying the planet or something repulsive enough to make most people root against them, or morally-grey goals, where they intend to do evil for what they think is the greater good. The last one works well with sympathetic villains or protagonist villains, because you get to see them from another angle. In the DSMP I think it’s safe to say we have two true villains, that being Dream and the Egg, because almost everyone agrees that if these two got their way, it would be bad. I am going to talk just about one of them, however.

Okay, now that we made those two terms clear, let me repeat: antagonists depend on the POV that is observed, while villains depend on morality. On the DSMP these two factors make saying the categories characters belong to tricky, especially when some self-assign or are assigned by other characters or even the fandom into archetypes. In this analysis I want to analyse Wilbur, Puffy (the characters that self-assigned themselves as villains at one point in their arcs) Tommy (who I saw people assigning him as a villain recently) and Dream (one of the true villains of this story, and not only that, he fits the classic combo of antagonist and villain).

The Self-Appointed

Welp, time to talk about my favorite character, Wilbur, and sympathise with Puffy fans, because they’re going right through what we, Wilbur fans, went through since “Then let’s be the bad guys” was uttered.

So, Wilbur and Puffy self-appointed themselves as villains. That makes them villains, right? Not quite. See, the thing with villains is that they are dependant on morals. The audience isn’t the only one that has a moral code, characters have one too. And, in my opinion, in this case we have to talk about the moral codes of these two.

Both Wilbur and Puffy have, or, had, moral codes that revolved around peace, not killing, and the like. Moral codes that you would generally label under “morally good”. What happened to these two, then, for them to go and call themselves villains? Well, it’s quite simple actually.

They broke their own moral codes. I’ll start with Wilbur because I am more familiar with him, and I can use the quotes provided by kateis-cakeis here (thank you my dude for your hard work collecting these!).

So, we all know that at the beginning, Wilbur had a very peace-oriented mindset, wanting to use words over weapons in conflict [“We don’t win wars with battles and with armour. We win wars with our words, Tommy. We’re starting a revolution, not a war.” - (Wilbur’s The Wall: 4:54, 29th July)], and, as such, he saw himself as a good guy [“It was Dream, he’s kinda the bad guy. Yeah, we’re the good guys, we’re the good guys here.” - (Wilbur’s Niki joins L'Manberg: 22:28, 6th Aug)]. What changed? Well, for starters, Wilbur underwent a spiral from paranoia that started from the Independence war. We can see his opinions change thanks to the flashback to the Election era [“And power isn’t gaining from diplomacy, and bureaucracy, and giant courthouses suspended in the sky, blah blah blah. It’s gained from swords, Quackity. It’s gained from blades, it’s gained from steel, iron.” - (Quackity’s Killing My Enemies: 1:06:19, 12th Apr)]. Of course, his spiral worsened after the Election, but we can assume he still thought of himself as a good guy.

That is, until the infamous scene. You know the one: [“Tommy, I’ve got a question for you, right. Because this festival, this is a good idea, this doesn’t seem like a bad like, this doesn’t seem evil. You know? This seems like a nice friendly thing Schlatt’s doing. Tommy, are we the bad guys?” - (Wilbur’s who are you go away: 1:08:14, 8th Oct)]. Oh yes, here, after about two weeks of being in a high stress situation, high paranoia and Schlatt seemingly doing a good thing for his nation, Wilbur starts to question himself. He starts to question if this is the moral thing to do, the right thing to do. And, logically, if you’re not in the right, you’re in the wrong, so the conclusion he reaches, is this: [“Tommy, am I, am I a bad, am I a villain of this story. Am I the villain in your history?” - (Wilbur’s who are you go away: 1:08:59, 8th Oct)]. He self-appoints himself as a villain, and then embraces the role, as well know. As Season 1 progresses, Wilbur doubles down more and more on this idea that he is the villain, and his story ends tragically. Even his ghost thinks of him as a villain, and compares Phil to Saint George, a hero, for killing him (I will get back to this).

So, was Wilbur an antagonist? Yes, definitely, especially from his POV, I would argue, because if he thought he was in the right, he would have never uttered the infamous “Then let’s be the bad guys.” Hell, other Wilbur analysts have pointed out that Wilbur may have wanted to be stopped from pressing the button. Even from his POV, you could argue he’s against the protagonists of the arc. The fact he had some potent self-hatred just helps cement that he was an antagonist, someone who must be stopped.

Was he a villain? I would say no. Look, I don’t see Wilbur as a villain, even if he tried to place himself into this archetype. In Season 1, I think the villain was Schlatt, followed by Dream, starting at the end of the Season. Wilbur strikes me more as a fallen hero, as a man who was okay, who would be cherished and loved and looked up to by others, but at one point took a wrong turn, didn’t find his way back, and continued down the path that doomed him, while his loved ones turned away from him, because they didn’t know how to help and he distanced himself from them by lashing out. It’s a tragic story arc.

“But Redemption Anon!” I hear you say, “CC!Wilbur’s DnD Alignment Chart classifies him as Neutral Evil, bordering on Chaotic Evil!” The DnD Alignment Chart is a chart that while it helps to get the vibe of a character, it can be often arbitrary or can be blurred because characters fit in with characteristics of more than one alignment (see the debate from around that time surrounding Techno’s assigned alignment). Plus, if we look at Wilbur from the POV of most, if not all, characters, without reading into his reasonings, yeah, he looked evil. Even to himself, we see it from quotes like these: [“Here’s the thing, I genuinely think, if it weren’t for me and you dying right, the server would be in shambles. I know for a fact that if I come back, or if I’m brought back to life in some way it’s definitely gonna just go [shit again]” - (Tommy’s am i dead?: 10:10, 4th March)], [“I know what I’m like, that’s the issue.” - (Tommy’s am i dead?: 10:29, 4th March)]. Was he evil, though? I would say not, more misguided than anything. That doesn’t mean he was a saint, nor was he the devil. Of course, he did some wrongs, and me denying that would be weird, because that’s why I say he should get a redemption arc, if he had a clean record, he wouldn’t be in need of one. He’s hurt people, intentionally or not, and he has to make up for those actions, if he is to be redeemed, but that doesn’t make him evil or a villain.

“But Redemption Anon!” I hear you say again, “Ghostbur considers him a villain and the quote from Ghostbur says he was a villain that wasn’t convinced to be a hero!” Yes, true, but we’re forgetting here two things:

1. Ghostbur is biased against Alivebur because he remembers his death as a good thing, and people don’t like him, therefore he rationalises it as Alivebur being the villain of the story and Phil being the hero, pulling out a Christian story that blatantly, hard-line shows us who is the villain and who is the hero: [“I- I- I’ve read the history books, Phil. I’ve read the history books. You- You- You slayed the dragon, you slayed Alivebur. You were the- You- You are the St George of the Dream SMP. We understand, everyone understands that, Phil.” - Wilbur’s First Time Ghostbur Live: 17:58, 6th Jan)]. Honestly, if I was in his shoes and I was everyone hating my past self and I didn’t remember my actions, I would assume I was evil too, because that is easier to comprehend than the fact that they are hating a mentally ill person that didn’t get the help, support and guidance they needed while they had a paranoia-fueled spiral.

2. Ghostbur, when he said: [“But a villain is just a- Sometimes the line’s a little blurry, you could say, a little blurry. It’s a tiny bit. It’s like, a villain, a villain is just a hero you haven’t convinced yet.” - (Tommy’s The Plan To Kill Dream: 1:01:31, 14th Mar)] he was talking to people who considered Wilbur a villain, and he tried to make them consider another side. This context matters, if he dismissed that Wilbur was a villain, there was a risk of his point being dismissed completely. Tommy and Tubbo, while they knew Alivebur from the beginning, his later actions tainted their view of him, and he has caused them hurt, and Ranboo has never met him, only knows of him from word of mouth. It’s hard to make these three consider him from the angle that he was not a villain. The line is still very good, but, again, context matters.

“But Redemption Anon!” I hear you yet again, “Wilbur is even worse in the Void and Dream will be killed to prevent him from being ressurected!” Okay so I don’t think we can speak about the Void here, in this context. You see, all we got out of the Void was a 5 minute conversation that sounded more like snippets out of a longer conversation, or even multiple conversations, that took place over what Tommy perceived as 2 months. From that conversation, all we got is that Wilbur’s self-loathing worsened, he thinks he, and by projection, Tommy, are better off dead for the good of the server, he knows when the Universe will end and he plays solitaire. The rest of the information we got about him was from Tommy, who is, sadly, an unreliable source, because he is not disclosing what Wilbur told him he’d do, beside a general “it will be bad and we have to stop it”. Tommy was also dealing with the trauma of being brought back, and let’s not forget that the Void didn’t give him peace, he was essentially tortured constantly for what he felt were 2 months. To me, it feels like it’s an intentional lack of detail and information, with a lot of discrepancies (like, if Wilbur scared Tommy so much, it’s interesting he refused to talk to MD when offered the chance, and Schlatt mentioned both Wilbur and Tommy being together at the gym) to throw us off. For all we know, Wilbur could be planning the end of the world if he is resurrected, or, he could’ve been making empty threats, or, he was rambling with no thought of it being taken seriously, or, he intentionally scared Tommy into not bringing him back, because he wants to stay dead. All of those could be what happened, and we may not know until he gets resurrected. Until then, I can’t call him a villain, or evil, even if he thinks of himself as a hazard to others, or Tommy’s motive to kill Dream.

Also, don’t be surprised Wilbur’s mental health seemingly went downhill ever since he’s been there. It’s possible the feeling of being constantly pulled apart isn’t just a Tommy thing, Wilbur may feel it too, and he’s been in there for what he may feel as being 10 to 15 years. Add the fact he’s been in Schlatt’s presence for that time, don’t act surprised he’s gotten worse. He didn’t have the conditions to plateau, let’s not even talk about getting better.

I think I defended Wilbur’s honor long enough lol, now onto Puffy.

I am not as familiar with Puffy as I am with Wilbur, but I will try to present her side as best as I can. We all know that post-Doomsday, Puffy took on the knightly goal of protecting people, especially the minors of the server. Puffy had the misfortune, however, that her closest friends and allies turned to be at least antagonists and at most villains, their actions leaving her feeling hurt and betrayed.

If she tried her best to try to help Bad and Ant, her friends, with the Egg problem, the Banquet shattered the remaining trust she had in them because they killed Foolish, and whether her belief that they killed him first to hurt her is true or not, they did hurt her. She felt betrayed, and accusing her of being the reason her son was dead didn’t help.

The moment she got the axe from Quackity Ant’s fate was sealed, because in that moment of grief and anger, Puffy sought out a retribution, a revenge that went against her moral code. We can see this clearly affect her, because once she leaves the Banquet’s hall, she mourns the death of Foolish and the fact that she killed her best friend, when she swore to protect lives. The Banquet, overall, is a highly traumatic event for her.

No wonder that the next day, her outlook on things changed. She branded herself a villain. She started making vague references to what she can do as a villain, because no one would expect it from her, even name-dropping Doomsday, one of the worst events she witnessed, and the one that turned her to her knightly arc. For me it’s clear that what she said was out of trauma, out of shock and out of desperation.

If you think about it, the world of the DSMP is very bleak, canonical minors have heavy trauma and continue to pay for wrongs they did long ago or suffer because people think they need to learn something or because they are used by others. Puffy noted it herself, Doomsday came and went and the perpetrators were never punished for it. While Techno and Phil aren’t villains per se, they are antagonists in this situation, aiding the villain, Dream, neither of them has suffered any consequence for destroying L’Manberg. No, getting locked into Pandora does not count, because Dream was imprisoned just because he had the Revive Book and he was too dangerous to let loose. It would seem that you can perform evil acts without care or consequence half the time, so why not turn to what you perceive as villainy to exact your justice on those who wronged you?

As of me writing this, all Puffy has done so far is say that she will be a villain, yet I have seen some takes that treat her as if she has been pulling the strings all along. I have seen people claim she has the Nuke, that she, for some reason, controls Ranboo’s enderwalk and even that she will break out Dream. I think this is ridiculous, not only because some of those things happened before she even considered calling herself a villain, but also because she has yet to take action. This is another “Then let’s be the bad guys” situation, because we have a character, that, after getting their moral code flipped on them, in a moment of vulnerability, they see themselves as a villain, and being the villain is the way to resolve their problems.

With that said, is Puffy an antagonist? Surprisingly, I say she was one already. If you look at the story from the Eggpire’s perspective, she is an antagonist, because she wants to stop the Egg. From other POVs, she’s not, and she hasn’t done anything to cement her as an antagonist with bad intentions so far.

Is she a villain? No, and I think that call is too soon to make, regardless of what she says. Remember, she feels herself as a villain, she is an unreliable narrator for herself in this situation. All she did was make a promise, with no action or plan. She also doesn’t seem to want to cause mass harm on the server, rather concentrating on the Eggpire. Another thing to note, she sees her killing Ant still something bad she did, even if she doesn’t regret it, because she is open to receiving consequences for the kill.

Truly it’s a matter of time to see where Puffy will go with this promise, and I hope she doesn’t go down the same path Wilbur went, not only because of story purposes, but also meta purposes.

The Fandom-Appointed

Ah, Tommy, one of the most misunderstood characters on the DSMP. So, why am I discussing Tommy here? Because I saw an influx of people calling him a villain after the last lore stream, and I want to set the record straight, because, just like how the reaction to Puffy’s “I’m a villain now” moment are ridiculous, so are the reaction to Tommy’s… especially because Tommy didn’t have an “I’m a villain now” moment.

I have to say, since Season 2 started the parallels between Tommy and Wilbur and Tubbo and Schlatt, people, at the beginning of Exile, were rooting for “VillainInnit”. People seemingly wanted him to follow Wilbur’s path, but he didn’t. He saved himself and went to Techno’s. While at Techno’s, while he was attempting to heal from Exile, due to wanting to feel accepted and gain Techno’s friendship, he started making actions of violence, that painted him in an antagonistic light. He even quoted Wilbur, which, as I remember, sent the fandom in a panic, because people found this as confirmation for Tommy turning to villainy, history repeating itself.

… But it never happened, because Tommy realised at the Green Festival that what he’s doing is wrong, and set off to make up for his actions. Yet since then people have been dogpilling him and calling him a villain, for following his moral compass, finding his way back and trying to make things better. Every mistake he makes or flaw he has is highly scrutinized to a ridiculous level. At this point blaming Tommy for all the wars is a meme.

It’s funny, actually, that Tommy gets pushed into the hero archetype by the people on the server, and the moment he makes a wrong step, by accident or because he was messing around, he’s at best an antagonist and at worse a villain, proving a point I always make when talking about the archetype of the hero, in any media: the title of hero puts the character on a tiny pedestal, and if they make the smallest misstep, they will fall into the pit of being branded evil and a villain. And that pit, story-wise, is hard to climb, because characters forget easy the good someone does, and often remember the bad they did, because it’s easier to see someone in a black-and-white perspective. They did bad? Then, they must have always been bad. Tommy doesn’t even want to be a hero or a villain, he just wants to vibe, but external forces do not let him have peace, forcing him to act, for his and the server’s sake.

Now, I have seen people condemn Tommy and already trying to push the narrative that he’s bad for wanting to kill Dream. Let’s look at Tommy’s morals: he, before he visited Dream for a second time, told Sam that he believes no one deserves to die, not even Dream. We can say that this is a core part of his moral code, not killing people.

This belief, as far as I remember, has been contradicted twice, once when he was killing Dream in the Season 2 Finale, and now, as he plans to kill Dream. Tommy himself recognises that this isn’t the right thing to do, but it’s the only thing to do. Why isn’t he a villain or an antagonist then? Because the context of why he did and does this is important.

Dream was planning to kill his best friend right in front of him, lock him up in Pandora and use the attachments of everyone on the server to control them. Tommy, and everyone on the server, realised Dream was a serious threat then, someone too dangerous to wonder around. Tommy took to killing Dream as a necessity to protect himself and everyone else. The only reason Dream was put in Pandora is because he revealed he knows how to revive the dead, thus they can’t kill him without dooming everyone to being dead, forever. Pandora was the only solution they found to keep Dream alive while keeping him powerless.

Second, Dream killed him, and brought him back, telling him he can send him back and declaring himself a God. Whatever Tommy and Wilbur spoke about in the Void clearly marked him, because he was willing to forgive Dream, if he is to not bring Wilbur back. Dream refused, and Tommy realised Dream is too dangerous for everyone on the server to be kept alive, especially to the people that came to the Vault, thus, for everyone’s safety, he must kill him.

This is not an evil, villainous or antagonistic goal, it is quite stereotypically good, protagonistic and heroic (ironically it’s what Aang was advised to do in ATLA, kill Ozai for the good of the world, even if he betrays his pacifist beliefs). Tommy has been pushed in the role of a reluctant hero, and even if he fails his goal and Dream escapes, that will not make him a villain or evil.

At the same time, as I said, antagonists are POV-centric, so, of course, Tommy is an antagonist in certain POVs. The Egg dislikes him, Jack wants him dead, Dream and Tommy at the point are sworn enemies and Techno doesn’t like him. He is an antagonist with good intentions, and that is the final nail in the coffin that I do not see him as a villain. He never saw himself as in the right doing bad things, never tried to justify them as being the right thing, and has apologised for his actions. He’s not a saint, but he’s not the devil either, and neither is he evil or a villain.

The True One (Story-Appointed)

Okay, now we are talking business. Dream, flat out, is a both an antagonist and a villain. The classic combo people think of when they think of a bad guy in a story. I’ll be honest I like him as a villain. You know you wrote and acted a good villain when you cheer as they hit rock bottom, and you love to hate them. That’s exactly what Dream is.

What in my mind separates Dream from the rest of the characters I have discussed in this analysis so far is intent and moral code. Make no mistake, all the characters I mentioned up until now know they’ve done something bad, whether they doubled down, plan to, or made up for their actions. And all of them, Dream included, started out from the same slate: characters with intentions and goals that are neutral to good on the general morality scale. Yeah, that’s right, I don’t consider Dream to have been evil from the start. At the beginning and middle of Season 1, I would have put him in the trickster category because he seemed to vibe with whoever he wanted, as long as he came on top, but without too much malice. He fanned the flames (like lavacasting Sapnap’s Eiffel Tower and giving Tommy Mars) but nothing big enough to make him a definite villain.

It was at the end of Season 1 that I could see him slowly shaping up as the definite villain we will witness from Season 2 to possibly the end of the DSMP. Allying with Schlatt over the Revive Book, telling Eret he plans to bring every faction under him, the traitor deal and him cheering for L’Manberg’s death all pointed to him becoming the next big threat. Then Season 2 happened, Exile happened, and this cemented him as the villain of the DSMP.

Doomsday came and we finally got a window to see why Dream did what he did: “You’re too fun”. People may wonder why I don’t consider Techno and Phil as villains for participating in Doomsday. This is why. While Techno and Phil had reasons that, while controversial, could be understood as valid motives to do what they did, Phil saying they were sending a message when talking to Ghostbur, Dream did all of that, all of that destruction, because he found it fun. He found it fun to torment and tear down a nation, because it was standing in his way, and it was something Tommy cared about.

The Vault scene also shows that Dream was planning to backstab everyone, by stealing their pets or their valuable items, or, in Bad’s case, cage an entire sentient being, Skeppy, in a cell smaller than an animal’s pen. Not even Techno, a guy that owes him a favor, was going to be spared. Let’s not even talk about him wanting to kill Tubbo just so he can make Tommy a hero by giving him a tragic backstory. All of these, plus killing Tommy and threatening to send him back to the Void for more info and declaring himself a God, point to Dream being a villain.

And then we have the morality side. In the last visit, Dream told Tommy that everyone thinks they are in the right from their perspective, which Tommy immediately denied. Both Dream’s line and the reply he got are very important. Dream’s line establishes that, as far as we know, Dream sees himself as in the right. Everything he did, Exile, abusing Tommy to the point of the latter considering ending his life, Doomsday, the Vault, almost killing Tubbo? All of that seems to have been not bad or evil actions in his mind. He sees himself as in the right, and that makes him a great villain. Tommy’s reply, well, him denying it, I always saw it with double meaning. On a surface level, Tommy’s obviously talking about himself, he has said time and time again that he’s done wrong and he needs to right it. On a deeper level, however, I saw him referring to Wilbur with this line, too. Because, as established before, Wilbur chose to do bad, even if he knew it was bad. He wouldn’t have said “Then let’s be the bad guys” if he thought they were in the right, and that is the fundamental difference between Wilbur, Puffy, Tommy and Dream. The former three, as shown in the previous sections, know that they did bad things, even from their moral perspectives, while Dream thinks he is in the right.

This is why Dream is the villain, while the others are antagonists at best and conflicted, broken and forced to walk a certain path, at worst.

#dream smp #dsmp #wilbur soot #dsmp wilbur #captain puffy #dsmp puffy #tommyinnit #dsmp tommy #dreamwastaken #dsmp dream #dream smp analysis #dsmp analysis

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ilcuoreardendo-fic · 4 years

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Overall Thoughts on TROS

It's definitely a Star Wars movie. Full of pew pew and snap-hiss crackle. There's not much time to stop and absorb anything because it's just go go go: we have a lot of fanservice to give and not a lot of time to give it.

I enjoyed myself. I'm just kind of....whelmed. (Neither over nor under.) It was fun. But with the ending of the trilogy, I’m finally able to put all my thoughts together (or at least somewhat together) and I have a lot of them...but I think they can be somewhat summed up like this: I wanted the sequel trilogy to be something more than what it was. But I digress.

Spoilers under the cut. Including my peeve with "generational midichlorians." Yeah. Kind of like “generational wealth.”

Also, this is stream of thought. Not a well put together essay/analysis.

Specific things I liked:

Confirmation that Leia did train as a Jedi (and built a saber).

The festival on Pasaana. (Honestly, this is the kind of thing I like most about Star Wars - seeing the worlds and the peoples [humanoids or otherwise] on them.)

The Dyad Bond. More than a Force bond. Two sides of the same coin. Not just able to see the other but to physically interact with the other (Kylo taking Rey's necklace; Rey giving Ben the lightsaber.)

Poe and Finn running things together. (But it would have been better as space boyfriends. Come on, Disney.)

The voices of the past Jedi. In Star Wars, no one is ever really gone.

Things I didn't Like

A trilogy complaint: the lack of tight, cohesive storyline. For the love of god, this is not the 1970s and you are not George Lucas with a one-off idea. Disney is a megacorp that purchased the most well known story/franchise in history and you're going to come into this thing and fucking wing it? Stop!

Palpatine introduced in the crawl. This goes back to my issue with the lack of a solid overarching storyline for the trilogy. This feels like shoehorning in a bigger bad. There should have been some hint of this from the beginning. And since JJ did TFA, I'm looking at him. He could have laid down some foundation instead of just questions in TFA. (Outlines! People, come on.)

Tying on to those first two things: Exposition. Oh, Snoke? I created him. All those voices in your head? Yeah, that was me. I know there was a comic that showed the abuse Ben Solo suffered at Snoke’s hand. This stuff would have been good to see within the trilogy. Cut down on some of the extraneous characters and pew-pew moments and give us some depth by showing us not telling us. (I know it’s Star Wars, but come on.)

Retconning Rey's lack of lineage. Don't retcon things because some parts of fandom don't like it. Tell the story being laid out. Do not pander. The whole point of TLJ was that those of lineage don't own the Force. The Jedi and the Sith do not own the Force. The Force just is. And you don't have to be from a specific bloodline to have a strong connection to it. The reason Rey was so strong was already established in the earlier films. Snoke said: Darkness rises and Light to meet it. The Force isn't a passive element; it seeks a balance. That's why Rey was so strong. We didn't need the "Oh, well, generational midichlorians, ya know." Sigh. We could have even kept the whole Palpatine as the hidden big bad without having Rey related to him. "Darkness rises and Light to meet it" applies to Old Palpy as well.

Redemption and Death. This is a peeve for me. I'm tired of the "redeemed through sacrificing my life" trope. For once, I'd like to see the redeemed bad guy survive and go out into the world and work on actively making things right. Ben's death was poetic and all. And it did run counter to Anakin in that he was able to save/bring back to life the woman he loved. But.... I want more. I want different. I was never expecting Reylo on screen or happily ever afters and riding off into the sunset. But I was hoping for something different than Return of the Jedi, Part Deux. I don't even have to see it. (In a less than two hour movie, that's not going to happen.) Just give me a hint.

There are more things, but they can pretty much be taken from these articles:

The Lack of Anakin Skywalker

From a storytelling/craft perspective. All of this. In all of the newness and nostalgic fan service, we just didn’t get the ties to the first six movies.

https://screenrant.com/star-wars-9-rise-skywalker-disrespects-darth-vader-anakin/?fbclid=IwAR1JG34DPkgKF1ho9cs6cP_qDEcQB7Tu0mwBgA0KGLhK-AvDwoylp27eUiE

While the sequel trilogy shouldn't be bogged down by too many ties to past movies, it should be the culmination to a nine-part saga that had, thus far, revolved around the rise and fall of Anakin Skywalker. To feel cohesive as episodes 7, 8, and 9 as opposed to just another trilogy that happens to take place after the first six movies, the final three movies should be tied to his legacy as well.

Lack of Substance, Lack of Loss, Too Much Myth

https://www.cbr.com/the-rise-of-skywalker-star-wars-rian-johnson/?fbclid=IwAR3TRCtLL-Uxehr7Vn2U2CmSkhbX4pmWXXUHcv3eWX-4RD0TCvpfhf6xipk

In The Last Jedi, Johnson uses conflict as a means to make the situation direr. Every flashy scene pushes the plot forward, but it pushes it in a way that makes it more clear the heroes are in over their heads. Holdo lightspeed ramming those ships? It's beautiful and epic, but it also leaves the Resistance vulnerable. The Kylo/Rey fight against Snoke's guards? That's a crowd-pleaser, but it also ends with Kylo Ren leading the First Order.

In every fight, there was some risk. And, as Yoda puts it in The Last Jedi, "The greatest teacher failure is." Every character learned from their failure, no matter how severe it may be.

There is plenty of fights in The Rise of Skywalker that are intended to entertain fans of action, but they add precious little. Chewie dying? Oh, no, he's fine. Wait, a planet blew up? Oh, no, don't worry, all the relevant characters on the planet escaped. Hold on, Palpatine electrocuted every ship in the sky? Oh no, none of the characters fans liked died. Don't worry. It's a lot of style, but we never get that substantial loss.

Things I'm Mixed About

There will probably be more of this as I digest but, right now:

The Kiss

I’m always the person rooting for the conflicted villain to come back to good. To become, if not a hero, then an anti-hero.

And I’m a Reylo shipper. I glommed onto the Bastilla Shan/Revan vibes, the Hades and Persephone symbolism, etc. from the get-go.

I’m glad to see a kiss between the two. It gives me a warm fuzzy. But it’s so sudden, it feels somewhat dizzying. But then Rey and Ben are probably having an entire conversation as they’re sitting they’re staring at each other, so...

The Tatooine Ending

It's fan service. I get the whole nod to where things started, with the dual sunset. Luke looked out on the horizon wondering what was out there in the galaxy. Rey's doing the same, but from a different perspective (she knows something of what's out there, but she still doesn't know what the future will hold for her as the last Jedi).

But functionally, I'm just like...why bury them in the sand? Keep them with you. Start a new training temple and keep them there.

Also...all that sand. Anakin’s turning in his grave. Rude.

Things People Have Complained About that I Don’t Mind

This has mostly been from other Reylo shippers, but....

“Rey stuck on Tatooine” She’s not stuck. She has the Falcon. She went to bury the lightsabers. Luke already told her, essentially, to not do what he did and cloister herself away. I don’t know why some people think she was going to build herself a new lightsaber and become a hermit on Tatooine.

“Rey’s lack of grief over Ben”

This is a Star Wars movie. In a Star Wars movie we don’t really see grief. We see a bit with Leia, but that’s in large part because Carrie Fisher died and this was essentially a memorial for her on film.

Beyond that...characters die all the time throughout every movie. (Look how many died in the battle between the Resistance and Final Order. And what do we get? Partying. Congratulations. Kissing. “Yay, we’re still alive!” Not grief.) Maybe we get a funeral or a mention in passing, but we don’t really see characters working through their feelings.

I’m sure Rey did her grieving. And may still be. Grief changes form as time passes and it looks different from person to person.

#star wars: the rise of skywalker #ben solo #rey #reylo #kylo ren #tros spoilers #star wars #star wars sequels #star wars sequel trilogy #outlines people outlines

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cdc1345711 · 6 years

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Cartoon-Force/My Hero Academia Crossover:Prison Massacre

(Note this is a story before the events of the Raid and the Peace talks-starting with the Cartoon-Force making their first appearance to the world of My Hero Academia wanting to leave a BIG message to the League of Villains and any other wannabe villains out there-enjoy)

(At a maximum state prison-housing the most horrible of villains-ones who attacked Thirteen’s USJ and the Hero Camp-were locked up for life or early parole.............until now)

Guard 1:So got any plans for after work?”

Guard 2:Got my daughter’s ballet recital tonight-said I’d be there”

Guard 1:How old is she now-3?”

Guard 2:6 actually and still cute as a button”

Guard 1:Usually are.....”

(But before more chatter can be made the lights flicker on and off)

Guard 2:What the.......?”

Guard 1:Probably just the rain-messes up the tech”

Guard 2:But-the weather didn’t call for rain........”

(And the power finally comes off and the 2 guards see out in the halls as other guards are being transported)

Guard 2:What the Hell is that?(Then he sees his fellow officer dragged into whatever is transporting them)WAKANOMI?????!!!!!”

Guard 1:I’m sinking fast kid......″

(And finally the last guard is transported-but instead of inside a volcano or in the sky every guard is on an island-far away from the prison-many guards are asking if it’s a villain attack but others say if it were than they wouldn’t be alive-this.............this was something else)

Muscular:Looks like the joint is all ours(activates his quirk)and these quirk nullifying necklaces have run out of juice”

Mustard:Let’s bust this joint.....I plan to get even with those UA brats”

Muscular:Me too”

(Every criminal makes it outside-the swimmers head for the water,the ground prisoners run out and the flyers fly but once they reach the prison walls-intending to break it-is blasted by what they perceive to be an energy weapon-and out of the smoke a bunch of shadowy figures become known)

Inmate:I’m guessing you’re the guys who did all this? did the League of Villains sent you to save us?”

(One of them just looks down at the prisoners with what can be said is an unfeeling expression)

Inmate:(Kinda getting scared)Is.......is this a rescue”

(The same person open his beak and utters the words in a cold,quiet,kinda creepy tone)

‘No’

(Then in mere seconds the figures with guns shoot down the prisoners)

Jerome:You heard our orders C-Force-Boss says not to let any of these pricks alive”

Muscular:I just gained my freedom-no way am I gonna(then a leg falls down near his feet)What the........good God”

(The sky rains blood and body parts from the flying villains)

Inmate:They......they just cut them down to pieces”

Carbon Villain:So let’s get them-the faster we kill them the faster we are to freedom”

(The villains attack the ones dubbed ‘C-Force’ in hopes of freedom-while below in the waters)

Aqua Villain:Ha-while those nimrods are busy being slaughtered we’ll be off Scott free”

Shark Villain:Hell yeah”

(But as the water themed villains reach the open waters they too are attacked-swiftly and without mercy)

Tiburone:Isn’t it sad not one of these bastards can put up a good fight?”

Slammu(Street Sharks):Yeah-but beating them is always fun”

(In less than a mili-second the water is painted red in blood-and on top side)

Pig-Gun Villain:It’s no use we can’t fight these guys-our bullets just either bounce off or are ineffective”

Gun Finger villain:Yeah”

Mustard:(Who sees the blasted down doors unguarded)No ones at the door c’mon,anyone who doesn’t want to die today follow me”

(The small villains make it to the outside)

Mustard:(Reveling in the outside air)I see the boats we’re home fr-(he is shot in the head)”

Gun Finger Villain:WHAT THE...... ?????(And he and the other escaped prisoners are shot in the head)”

(Because in the distance a Banana Slug with both eye stalks in 2 sniper guns shot anyone down before they escaped)

Talon:Nice shooting Slink-”

Slinkman:Thank-you and Kludd weren’t so bad hacking those Flyers to bits either-how’re our guys doing?”

Kludd:Still beating the bad guys........and gals”

(A gorilla armed villainess charges at a cyborg man only to be caught in his grip)

004:Sorry chick(snaps her neck)you chose the wrong target”

Inmate:Let’s get the dog.......”

Jerome:Speaking of ‘choosing the wrong targets’(he pops out his claws and starts slicing the villains to pieces)RAAAAAAAAAWR”

(Muscular was fighting an African American with unbreakable skin)

X:You killed those water hose heroes and tried to kill that Midoriya kid right?-then buddy this is gonna be fun.......(he continues to pummel Muscular)”

(Inside not all villains and villainesses left the gate-some stayed because they wanted redemption-and once the CFs entered inside they left those prisoners be)

(Outside again)

Jerome:Hit them fast and hit them hard boys-no one left standing”

‘HEY BITCH-BOY!!!!!!!”

(A villain lunges at Jerome only to be hit by a knife to the forehead)

Jerome:(Turns to see who threw the knife)You.........(seeing it was none other than-.......)”

Stain:I take it you got a boss who sent you here to ‘kill’ us all right?”

Jerome:Only those who were in the League of Villains with no shot of redemption(looking at Stain’s hands gripping his knives and he readies his claws)wanna bring it on boy bring it on.....”

(Instead he flings his knife at another inmate)

Stain:You don’t follow the laws of our society,you are not one of those fake heroes-so for now i’m your ally”

Jerome:Fine by me blades”

(He and Stain walk to meet up with the others)

Ozzy:(Blasting down baddies)How’s Jerry doing?”

Eric:(Using his telepathy)He’s fine-he’s actually got Stain with him”

Ozzy:He on the list?”

T-Bone(Extreme Dinosaurs):Yes(as he snaps the necks of 4 prisoners)”

Ozzy:Okay-hope he doesn’t stab any of us”

Black Dynamite:(Inside the base)Moonfish is dead”

Eric:Good job BD-and Tiburone and the sky boys called in their posts are clear too”

X:I still got this ass-hole(holding the head of Muscular now looking like battered and beaten underground pit fighter)thought he could help ‘send the message’ to his old friends”

Eric:Yes-but after we’re done here”

(And hour has passed since the attack and the news has already arrived)

Newscaster:I am here on a scene as a maximum state prison was under attacked-luckily no guards were harmed but(sees the prison)oh dear God(the side of the prison hangs the dead bodies .......and written in their own blood was ‘LoV is NEXT!!!!’)what....what I can describe ladies and gentleman is a house of horrors littered with the dead bodies of the villains behind the USJ and Hero Camp attacks-oh gawd-how this happened we go no.....”

‘I do......’

(A prisoner walks out and tell them what he saw)

Inmate:A group of heavily armed and very strong guys came in and massacred everyone from the skies,ground and seas-wanting to send this to you(it was a DVD and due to her curiosity the newscasters played it-showing a man in a black and red suit and wolf mask)

‘Charles:Hello-I am Knight Raider and this is the ‘Cartoon-Force’ we’v observed the horrid deeds your criminals have committed especially this piece of shit right here(his group brings out Muscular)we won’t talk long only to say that the age of villains is gone,anyone wishing to join the ‘League of Villains’ has sent their death warrant and will be given two choices-stay down or be put down-as for the league themselves-Shigaraki,Dabi,Toga,Twice,Compress,Kurogiri,Spinner and Magne-like the blood of the dumbasses that joined you wrote ‘You’re Next!!!!’ as for any other wannabe villain the same applies,and the heroes,stay out of our way,we’re dishing justice our way to make the world a better place-see ya now(they show the one named X pinning Muscular to the wall with metal pipes)’

Newcasters:As you’ve seen it folks there are new players on the field-Knight Raider and his Cartoon-Force are now on the loose-what will happen next-stay tuned for more”

(Charles turns off the TV)

Artemis:Was slaughtering all those villains real necessary?”

Charles:Yes-it’s to show that there’s people out there stronger than the League of Villains who don’t give two shits about putting them down-All-For-One’s world will dies”

Artemis:And Shigaraki-you plan to kill him too?”

Charles:Kill? no no no no-just to hurt him so hard he never wants to fight again-or even think about it-(walks outside to see his workers move their vehicles and guns)because now it’s time to bring out some much needed justice”

THE END

#Cartoon-Force #My Hero Academia

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