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sketchpancake · 8 years

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On Aywas and their ban-hammering... (ACC #41)

Hey, this is Rae from account #41 that you may have heard was banned for “tracing” with no prior offenses of any sort on the account.

Below is what happened, for those of you who are curious.

I just wanted to say a few things to my friends on aywas that may not have heard it from me or my 3 partners (bee, skelly, keanai) yet.

I did reference a picture of a bear in my art, however I did not “trace” the bear and that is what had me initially outraged. As an artist with years of experience, being accused of tracing is like being told they don’t believe my artwork could have been done without my having to directly place the image below what I’m doing. I am very adept at eyeballing for size and proportions, and that is what I did in the case of the bear. I was asked by the customer to do a bear in this way, and she watched me complete it and vouched for me having not traced anything.

I honestly love the aywas community, you were my friends and my family for six years. And I used to love the mods too, as we never really bumped heads. Until I was treated like scum for defending myself against these accusations.

Here is the message between myself and the mod on aywas. I wasn’t going to get into this, but with the recent thing with Ryou happening, I feel that people need all the information possible to make an informed decision about their feelings on the state of Aywas.

alright, for those of you who read through that.... here are my emails between the mods and myself. I’m going to copy and paste them in chronological order so it isn’t from the latest->oldest like my email displays.

CW is myself.

C W December 6, 2015, 21:28 I've been spending the last few days discussing with my partners and my boyfriend what to do in this case. What I've come to the conclusion to do is the following:I will (and already have) pay back the person for the bear. It was 30gp and you can check my bank history for me sending it back.I will take the three day ban only to lessen the stress for my partners as they had a few things going on involving art, friends, etc that were abruptly cut off for something that they had nothing to do with.I will, and can redraw the bear head to not look so similar, if that was the issue I would have been very willing to do that if this can be made the solution for things that look too similar to a reference. Then the user wouldn't lose her bear either.What I will not do:"admit" to tracing anything. I did not "trace' the bear and I will stand by that for as long as it takes for you to realize you made a mistake in accusing me so assuredly of a crime I have a witness to not committing.I hope this is something we can agree on as it was mentioned in your message to me that the ban would be reduced to three days with my cooperation, Rae #41

Mauri (Aywas) December 7, 2015, 18:03 Hello, I am glad to hear that you are willing to cooperate, however you seem to be under the misunderstanding that this situation is up for negotiation.As the Private Message with Kaiyo detailed, refusal to cooperate with resolving the user issue would result in a minimum of a 3 month ban, with the option of cooperating and reducing that to 3 days. This initial offer was refused and a permanent ban was put into place until such a time as you were willing to cooperate, at which point the ban would then be reduced to the initial 3 months offered (which was stated in the ban message).At no point were you required to admit to tracing, and it was explained to you that the high level of accuracy between the images would still cause a legal liability that could affect not only you, but also the website. This is why we need to know all the images that were created with reference so that it may be investigated to ensure that there are no more pieces on site that could cause legal difficulty for either yourself or us. Since this is a serious situation, and one that cannot reoccur, please understand that the following terms are non-negotiable:1. You will provide all images you have created that have been uploaded to the website (including but not exclusive to custom pets, custom items), as well as the IDs of the users they were created for*. This does not include private artwork, such as pet profile images, or original characters. It is not necessary to provide the reference images, but it will be helpful if you have them and are able to. 1a. Staff will continue the investigation into these pieces and determine which are too close to the reference material. 1b. Of the pieces that are determined too close, you will be required to pay back the commissioning users, in full, or redo the artwork - the choice of which will be up to the commissioning user. 1c. Should Staff find pieces you have withheld, all agreements are void and the account will remain permanently banned with no chance to appeal.* We understand this may be complicated by not having access to your account, so we will work with you to uncover those if you do not have their username or ID saved.2. Future artwork that you are commissioned to do, and will be uploaded to the Aywas website, will need to be monitored for an undetermined length of time. 2a. All public commission threads must be linked to Kaiyo (#489) in a Private Message, where you will post any references that you are using for the artwork. 2b. Any commissions conducted via Private Message must be linked to Kaiyo (#489), along with any references you used for the artwork. 2c. If Staff determine that your work can proceed unmonitored, and you are found after that time to closely reference source material, all agreements are void and the account will be permanently banned with no chance to appeal.Please be aware that this is the only offer available to you, and is non-negotiable. If you do not wish to agree to any of these terms the account will remain permanently banned. Your lair partners, should they wish to return, would be required to contact the Support Email before being given permission to reapply, upon which they will have to start again with a new account, and no access to the currency, pets or items previously owned on the #41 account. The only exception to this would be upon the presentation of a lair partner agreement, suitably dated to the merging of the lair, wherein they will be reimbursed those items, pets and currency should they still exist.Should you cooperate and agree to the above terms the ban will remain in effect for three months as detailed in the ban message, at which point you and your lair partners will be free to access account #41 and it's assets as normal.I hope to hear from you soon.

C W December 7, 2015, 19:47 "refusal to cooperate with resolving the user issue would result in a minimum of a 3 month ban, with the option of cooperating and reducing that to 3 days." yes and I agreed to cooperate, making it a 3 day ban instead of a 3 month. If you doubt the validity of what I'm saying along with the statements I'm making about what Kaiyo said, you can view our full conversation http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq26/princessravens/Unfair%20Ban/messages_zpsrrut7pom.jpg herein which kaiyo DOES state "you must admit to tracing" which is an exact opposite of your statement "At no point were you required to admit to tracing"If you want the images I've made you can see them all on my art thread if you check before my edit. I have no reference images to give you, but it does say the users and the art made. Please consider that there are three other people on the account who did absolutely nothing wrong and that I do plan to leave, or in the very least never do art again on aywas so there is no reason to continue to have a longer ban when 3 days was stated as the time length. Once again I'll restate, I do NOT plan on doing /any/ more art for aywas, on aywas, or otherwise associated with this site. I don't think I wasn't "cooperating" as, if you check the message, it was said I was explicitly tracing and I proved my innocence, thus leaving me to believe I was in the clear. Because once again, I never traced anything.So it wasn't so much as a refusal to cooperate as a misunderstanding in that I believed that if I proved I did nothing wrong, the warning would be lifted. Obviously that wasn't made clear by Kaiyo as she just banned the account instead of continuing to speak to me to make that clear so I would like to re express that the ban should be moved down to 3 days as was stated in the original mail as my "non-cooperation" wasn't because I didn't want to cooperate but was rather because I knew I was innocent of the accusations that were so rudely thrown at me.

Mauri (Aywas) December 8, 2015, 14:12 We apologise if you feel mixed signals were sent regarding a statement or admission about the tracing allegation, it was only mentioned once and upon your extreme adversion to helping rectify the situation because of it, was purposefully never mentioned again.Again, your refusal to cooperate voided the original offer to minimise the ban to 3 days, and resulted in a permanant ban with the option to reduce it to three months. This is non-negotiable and will not be amended further. Staff have considered there are other users on the account, however the rules and terms of lair sharing is very clearly laid out that all users on the account are liable for the actions of their lair mates. We cannot and will not overturn the rules to accommodate this situation, regardless of your assertion that you plan to leave.Please be clear that the terms have been laid out to you, and they are the final terms. We will not discuss, negotiate, or otherwise change these terms. If you agree to these terms then we may move forward. If you do not wish to agree to these terms then the account will remain permanantly banned. These are the only two options open to you as we will not entertain further emails attempting to circumvent or change this.

C W December 8, 2015, 14:40 I'll mention again I did not refuse to cooperate. I don't know where you are getting that from. I was accused of something I was innocent of and proved my innocence. If your messages didn't come off as wholly accusational and unprofessional and maybe if you'd mentioned the option of redrawing the bear at first instead of throwing accusations I would have immediately been like "oh yeah of course sure I'll redraw the bear" Since you say that is an option now, I will take that option. That was never mentioned previously or I would have immediately fixed it. Please make sure your mods are accurately informed on the proper way to communicate with people as Kaiyo came off as hateful and rude as well as unprofessional. Since this was handled so sloppily and rudely, I will discuss with my lair partners about our next step. I will say that I never refused to cooperate and I would have been much calmer if Kaiyo wasn't so directly hurtful and accusational towards me. Please reduce the ban time to 3 days as I never refused to cooperate and the option of redrawing the bear was never offered to me until we reached this point. I would have IMMEDIATELY taken the option to redraw the bear had it been offered at first, which it should have. So therefore I am not refusing to, and have never at any point refused to cooperate I will say for the umpteenth time. -Rae

C W December 10, 2015, 17:21 I understand everything that you are saying and have said. I agree to follow the terms you have set forth and do apologize if at any point it has seemed as though I were trying not to cooperate I just simply wished to maintain my innocence. I will redraw the bear, and you already know where my other art is but will still be taking my leave of the site. I do hope that you will lift the ban on my lair mates after the three months time has passed and do regret this whole mess happened. It has been a learning experience for us all I am sure.

Mauri (Aywas) December 11, 2015, 20:21 "You will provide all images you have created that have been uploaded to the website (including but not exclusive to custom pets, custom items), as well as the IDs of the users they were created for."Please re-read the terms provided and explained to you prior. In addition, it is up to the commissioning users to decide whether or not they want a refund, or a redraw. I am not certain what the owner of the bear has decided as to whether they want a full refund or a redraw. To my knowledge that is still being sorted out.

C W December 11, 2015, 20:53 I already have been talking to the owner of the bear. Not only did I already send her her money back before the banning, but I offered to redraw the bear as well. She told me she'd happily take the redraw and refund me my gp. And secondly, I already provided the images. I said they were on my commissioning thread topic if you look before I edited the post it says the names of the users and has a link to the thing I made'I gave you all this information very early on in our messages.

Mauri (Aywas) December 12, 2015, 20:26 Staff are in contact with the user that commissioned the bear, and they have stated they are unaware of any arrangements being made for you to redraw the artwork for them.You have been repeatedly asked to list all the artwork yourself, and it is a term we laid out in order to move this situation forward towards resolution. Repeatedly instructing staff to look at a thread you deleted all the information from will not aid in resolving this.

C W December 12, 2015, 20:33 I was told you can see what came before an edit that was misinformation that has been posted on your website. I find it hard to believe you can't see what came before an edit. Aside from the topic I had I don't have any names to give you. Well now they know that's an option. As you never told me in the first place that redrawing was an option. Her and I had talked before hand and I've been talking to a lot of people and the topic of redrawing the bear has come up infinitesimal times so I'm sorry I said one thing that was not true I'm trying to keep track of everything you all constantly say and then deny saying on top of dealing with the emotional troubles of handling this problem that shouldn't have even been a big issue in the first place.

Mauri (Aywas) December 14, 2015, 16:55 It has never been posted or suggested that staff are able to view the original contents of a post after it has been edited. I regret that you have been misinformed about this, but it does not change the requirements as laid out in previous email correspondence. If you no longer have the artwork, then this of course causes an issue as we will be unable to locate it on site and remove it.Redrawing the artwork is only an option if the commissioner wishes the artwork to be replaced by yourself. As it stands, those who have come forward with artwork they have found to be infringing copyright law have asked for refunds only.

C W December 14, 2015, 16:58 Can you show me the art of those who have stepped forward as well as the references that were supposedly used as I am not refunding anything that doesn't have a reference that is "too close" Because otherwise anyone can just step up with anything and say they want a refund and that isn't a very sound business practice. Also as site mods don't you think being able to view before an edit is important? You can check the thread and see those who have commissioned me there posting there.

C W December 17, 2015, 21:51 Hey, I was wondering if you got my last message - it's been four days without a response, and I'm worried my message didn't go through. Could you please get back to me ASAP regarding this? I know before I was a bit snappy and I apologize for that. I'm sure you can understand why I've been upset.Unfortunately, I have no way to access who I've made art for without access to Aywas. I kept all the information stored there; I didn't store it elsewhere. A quick question about the unbanning - would it be three months from December 8th, when I gave the location of the information, or would it before from another day?I'm just sending this to make sure my message really did get to you. I have thousands of dollars worth of pets, items and art on my account that I'd really like access to. Also, Asher told me through Skype that she'd like it if I could redraw the bear for her. The only reason she didn't ask me to before is because she was afraid Aywas wouldn't let her upload it.

C W Jan 2, 17:25 Hey, Not sure if you received our other message. We've tried contacting a couple of times, and we're still wondering about a couple of questions - most important being the issue with the account being unbanned from December 8th due to my cooperation. If not, please let me know and I'll promptly resend the message. There are other questions besides this one.

Mauri (Aywas) Jan 2, 20:13 Are you sure you have absolutely no record of any commissions located off site? No png or psd files on your computer? Dropbox? Photobucket? Google drive? Anything? If you can't remember the user IDs at the very least please provide the images. We're aware of more than the bear; and we are aware of some commissions of yours besides the bear that were heavily referenced and we have the reference images. So this really is not a "just the bear" situation, but rather an investigation into all of your commissions. Hence why we are asking you for the images of all commissions you have done on the site (custom pets, custom items, etc.). The unbanning, if you cooperate, would be 3 months from the day you hand over the information we are requesting.Re-copying the terms below to have a more recent reference:1. You will provide all images you have created that have been uploaded to the website (including but not exclusive to custom pets, custom items), as well as the IDs of the users they were created for*. This does not include private artwork, such as pet profile images, or original characters. It is not necessary to provide the reference images, but it will be helpful if you have them and are able to. 1a. Staff will continue the investigation into these pieces and determine which are too close to the reference material. 1b. Of the pieces that are determined too close, you will be required to pay back the commissioning users, in full, or redo the artwork - the choice of which will be up to the commissioning user. 1c. Should Staff find pieces you have withheld, all agreements are void and the account will remain permanently banned with no chance to appeal.* We understand this may be complicated by not having access to your account, so we will work with you to uncover those if you do not have their username or ID saved.2. Future artwork that you are commissioned to do, and will be uploaded to the Aywas website, will need to be monitored for an undetermined length of time. 2a. All public commission threads must be linked to Kaiyo (#489) in a Private Message, where you will post any references that you are using for the artwork. 2b. Any commissions conducted via Private Message must be linked to Kaiyo (#489), along with any references you used for the artwork. 2c. If Staff determine that your work can proceed unmonitored, and you are found after that time to closely reference source material, all agreements are void and the account will be permanently banned with no chance to appeal.

C W Jan 2, 20:49 I can give you the things I have uploaded. I would appreciate if you would reconsider 3 months from december 8th as that was the time that we made clear I was never refusing to cooperate in the first place.http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq26/princessravens/antler%20kitty_ocelot_zpswi2r06xh.pnghttp://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq26/princessravens/ha_helldog_dobe_male_zpscgd9es73.pnghttp://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq26/princessravens/malefoxreve-winter%20and%20autumn-by-rae41-v2small_zpswantpjcb.pnghttp://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq26/princessravens/alt_ornaga_by%20rae_zpsirjyjh2n.pnghttp://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq26/princessravens/lyra%20trash%20shoptiny_zpsuegjrxkx.pnghttp://i4... http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq26/princessravens/aztec%20lion%20shen%20by%20rae%2041_zpsroo4vknd.pnghttp://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq26/princessravens/orbbymelo_zps23841231.png

Mauri (Aywas) Jan 6, 18:11 Thank you for the links, unfortunately one or more seem to have broken - could you please re-link that and any others that may be missing due to this.

C W Jan 7, 11:44 I copied my previous msg and pasted it into a note pad and attached it to this msg. I would appreciate if you would reconsider 3 months from december 8th as that was the time that we made clear I was never refusing to cooperate in the first place.

Mauri (Aywas) Jan 12, 17:01 Part of our asking you to give us the artwork was to verify that which we had already discovered, and to see if you were able to be honest with us so that we felt allowing you back on site was something that was safe to do.We are aware this is not all the artwork you have submitted to the site, or done for users of this website; and much of that artwork is still accessible to you off-site. While we acknowledge your attempt at this late stage, staff feel that you are continuing to stall matters being completed by purposefully withholding work. This does not make us feel that reversing your ban is in the best interests of the Aywas website users, as we cannot ensure that you will not purposefully work to circumvent the restrictions we've put in place just as you have done so here.

C W Jan 12, 20:12 I am not purposefully holding anything from you. I showed you all that i had on my photobucket. I even showed you things I didn't even sell just to show you I haven't traced anything. I will reiterate- I said I wouldn't be doing art anymore and in fact will be leaving aywas I'm just doing this to get my friends back in to the account. If you are aware of other things please tell me and I'll look for them but I got everything I had access to. I don't have to link you things I did for free do I? Because there are a few things I did like that- and that weren't traced I must say again.... Please stop dragging this out for me it's been like 2 months now and you don't respond promptly and your email has been full multiple times delaying my responses. Please just let them back in the account so I can stop thinking about this website.

C W Jan 12, 20:25 I am not purposefully holding anything from you. I showed you all that i had on my photobucket (mostly things i uploaded for people who couldn't do it themselves) You already know my tumblr account and I haven't deleted anything from it. I know you know of it because you mentioned it so why do I need to bring it up to you again? I have uploaded every single thing I've done as a commission on aywas to tumblr. I linked you what I had in my photobucket only because it covered some faux work and stuff I'd done not for anyone else but for me. Don't you think it's rather subversive to "test" me like this when I've been drug around by long wait times for responses and non-responses at all, etc etc. I'm obviously just wanting back in the account and then leaving so there is no reason for you to be doing this other than to make me more upset.I will reiterate- I said I wouldn't be doing art anymore and in fact will be leaving aywas I'm just doing this to get my friends back in to the account. If you are aware of other things please tell me and I'll look for them but I got everything I had access to. Please stop dragging this out for me it's been like 2 months now and you don't respond promptly and your email has been full multiple times delaying my responses. Please just let them back in the account so I can stop thinking about this website.

C W Jan 13, 11:57 I am not purposefully holding anything from you. I showed you all that i had on my photobucket (mostly things i uploaded for people who couldn't do it themselves)You already know my tumblr account and I haven't deleted anything from it. I know you know of it because you mentioned it so why do I need to bring it up to you again? I have uploaded every single thing I've done as a commission on aywas to tumblr. I linked you what I had in my photobucket only because it covered some faux work and stuff I'd done not for anyone else but for me.Don't you think it's rather subversive to "test" me like this when I've been drug around by long wait times for responses and non-responses at all, etc etc. I'm obviously just wanting back in the account and then leaving so there is no reason for you to be doing this.I will reiterate- I said I wouldn't be doing art anymore and in fact will be leaving aywas I'm just doing this to get my friends back in to the account. If you are aware of other things please tell me and I'll look for them but I got everything I had access to- everything that I've done. It's been 2 months now and you don't respond promptly and your email has been full multiple times delaying my responses.I just want my friends to be back in the account and you keep giving me new things to do and new standards to conform to and each time I do something you give me another reason why it wasn't enough. Please just start the 3 month counter so they can get back in already.

Mauri (Aywas) Feb 22, 19:50 For clarification, your ban appeal has been denied and this case is closed.

(I believe at this point my mail is formatted this way because they have barred my email from being received on their end)

C W

Feb 23 at 11:11 AM

To

Aywas Customer Support

Can you give me a reason as to why this went from '3 days with cooperation" and I did cooperate, just didn't want to say I "traced' anything when I clearly didn't. To then "3 months" and I give you the art you say you need to then "your appeal has been denied" without you actually responding to anything I said in my previous message and many before it where I say I clearly was never "resisting" anything and I clearly just wanted the account back for my friends not even for my self? I spent FIVE YEARS of my life playing aywas and I did nothing wrong and then this comes up and it gets tossed around like laundry in a washing machine until you decide that you're bored and just let me go? This is five years of my LIFE we're talking about here that you won't even give me the decency of responding to my message with an actual thought out answer because you have no reason for banning me that you ever gave me that I couldn't prove was a lie or grossly misworded.

end of mails

anyways I hope this helps for people who wondered what happened.

I miss you all, I miss my pets, I miss my friends. If anyone from aywas knew me and wants to keep contact, message me.

For those of you who still want to zealously guard the mods of aywas and the things they do, feel free to. I am not looking to fight though so if you start up with anything more harsh than questioning something or general chatter, I will not be responding. I’m done with having Aywas negatively impact my life.

#aywas #rae #rae 41 #aywas commissions #aywas art #aywas bans #aywas petsite #aywas mods #ban #bans #aywas ban

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