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From Critical Role C3EP92
Dorym - so close, yet so far.
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😭😭😭😭😭 ORYM, MY HEART
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Okay, I just need to get something out of the way when it comes to the Kipperlilly conversation nobody's brought up yet, which I think is insane. Almost all of The Bad Kids would be more powerful if they didn't have their tragedy porn tragic backstories.
First of all, this doesn't apply to Fig and Gorgug because if Fig wasn't Gorthalax's child she would be a lot like Kipperlilly and not the ruler of hell. I wouldn't say Gorgug has a tragic backstory, he's got a pretty normal growing up experience with ups and downs.
Let's start with her #1 nemesis, Riz Gukgak. She's so jealous that his dad was murdered and that gives him an advantage in the adventuring life. To be crude, no, it doesn't. What would give Riz an advantage in the adventuring life would be living with someone who has a direct contact to all the government's inner workings and conspiracies. Now that would be an advantage. That gives you connections and clues that no one else can get. This is not what happened. What happened was eating cereal with water for breakfast, what happened was not getting an opportunity at college, what happened was a 9 year old who stopped sleeping, what happened was not your secret agent dad giving you an advantage in the school conspiracy because he's dead. Otherwise he fucking would've.
And now Kipperlilly's new #1 nemesis, Kristen Applebees. She was ostracised from her religion for her sexuality, she achieved sainthood, and raised a dead god back to life. None of this would've happened if she hadn't been raised in The Harvestmen. No, it wouldn't, but what would have happened if Kristen had been straight? Disgusting thought, yes, I know, but let's talk about it. A Kristen who never left Helio behind would have so many more fucking advantages than the one with Cassandra has. If she had followed her birthright she would be the only chosen one of one of the world's most powerful gods. Sol is the biggest god in Spyre and Helio is his son. Helio does not have a chosen one anymore because Kristen left. It's not a title that's just given out, it could only have been Kristen. You know what's an advantage? Being the chosen one of one of the world's most powerful gods, being a god's spoken favourite, and deified by all of that god's followers. Now that would be an unfair advantage. You know what's not an advantage? Being homeless at 14 and being at the mercy of your ex-girlfriend's uncle for housing, dying and having absolutely no one there for you so you're only option to survive is to trust your own abilities enough to raise yourself from the dead, and failing school because of biased teachers.
And what of Adaine Abernant? The Elven Oracle? Her tragedy porn tragic backstory is surviving an abusive home. Now I just have to imagine that Adaine would have it a lot easier than most students, an incredible amount of unfair advantages, if her old money parents paid for every wizard whim she wanted, kept her diplomatic immunity so she could do literally anything she wanted without consequences, and gave her a direct contact into the heart of the Fallinell government. Now that is what I would call an insane amount of unfair advantage. I would be furious at this rich kid who's never had to work for anything myself. This is not even close to the case. She's barely passing classes because she can't afford the material you're required, she goes to the guidance counsellor for panic attacks, and she's being hunted by her home government. I'd say that's about every single thing in her life working against her having it easy.
Fabian Aramais Seacaster. He's complicated since he is very privileged already. He gets 5000 gold a month just for existing. He's the captain of the Owlbears because he killed the previous one. He lives alone in a mansion. Yeah, that's pretty privileged. His parents are also so severely fucked up that if they hadn't been filthy rich they would've been absolutely horrible for him. If he had parents who unconditionally supported him and stayed with him through everything, then we could talk about perhaps the most powerful person in Elmville. In Solace possibly. The most feared pirate in history who single-handedly dismantled a monarchy and fights against armies on his own is at your beck and call, does whatever you ask him to, and loves you more than anything. The greatest swordswoman in the world, that bested the most feared pirate in the world, the daughter of one of the most influential elven families and immortal will do anything you ask her, loves you to bits, and would cheat any rules for you. To have that would just be insane. You can argue that Fabian already has unfair advantages because of his social status and inheritance. This is true, but this is also true within his own adventuring party. Now his parents aren't helping him with anything and are determined that he reach his legendary status on his own. Otherwise talk about a fucking advantage.
All this to say is that if Kipperlilly got all of The Bad Kids tragedy porn like she wanted she wouldn't have been better, but she would've made them better. There is an adventuring party out there in the multiverse that has a secret agent at their disposal, the only chosen one of a Sol religion, Bill Seacaster and Hallariel Lomenelda unprompted in their corner, and a seer with unending resources and diplomatic immunity. These would've been people you start a platform about adventuring not being fair for everyone because of. The people you went against was a homeless kid, a kid with an anxiety disorder, a trust fund kid, and someone with PTSD.
I've seen your posts about Kipperlilly being wrong for her validation, but right in the fact that The Bad Kids have been given larger plots and mysteries because of their families and circumstances and I don’t want to fucking see another one. When you make that I want you to think about the adventuring party they would've been without their backstories. The insanely powerful and privileged adventuring party that almost happened. Their life got made worse, not easier because their life could have been so fucking easy. Kipperlilly can take all the tragedy porn she wants and then maybe realise that that's not what makes the adventurer. That the reason she's mad at The Bad Kids is the only reason she can even tangentially compete with them.
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I’m rewatching EXU in preparation for next week and seeing Matt’s continuous dogshit rolls, reminded me of an old conversation I had online right around EXU Kymal. So I gotta ask…
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i couldn't rest until i made something this is driving me insane. so what if i dismissed your success as because of your hardships instead of in spite of them
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The Legendary Adventures of the Bad Kids: Entries in the Legend Lore Database*
Adaine Abernant:
Latest in the line of Elven Oracles
Current wielder of the Sword of Sight, Sword of the Elven Oracle
She who invoked the name of Ankarna and broke Obliviati Mori
Kristen Applebees:
The Chosen of Helio, God of Corn
The Creator of Yes!/Yes?
She who Resurrected Herself
The Blessed Saint of Cassandra, Deity of Mystery, Night and Magic
Figueroth Faeth:
Mortal daughter of Gorthalax the Insatiable, Prince of the Nine Hells and former ruler of the Bottomless Pit
Current Archdevil of Rebellion, Figueroth the Infaethable, the Dark Mistress of the Bottomless Pit
Paramour of Ayda Aguefort, the Mistress of the Compass Points Library
Riz Gukgak:
Fifth of the World of Spyre to summon the Night Yorb to the Material Plane
He who slayed the Dragon Kalvaxus, Emperor of the Red Waste
Fabian Aramais Seacaster:
Mortal son of William "Old Bill" Seacaster, Legendary Pirate and the Current Captain of the Infernal Wastes, Scourge of the Nine Hells
Grandson of Telemaine Lomenelda, swordsmith of the Elven Kings
He who killed William "Old Bill" Seacaster
Current wielder of Fandrangor, Sword of the North Star
Dance Champion of the Elven Oracle, the Oracle of Dance
Gorgug Thistlespring:
Creator of the Barbificer Specialty, the first in the World of Spyre to combine barbarian rage and artificer spellcasting
Currently has the Night Yorb sealed in his personal vehicle, the Hangvan
The Bad Kids (Adventuring Party):
Defeated Kalvaxus, Emperor of the Red Waste
Ended the Nightmare King's Curse on Sylvaire
Defeated the Nightmare King, the King of the Dark Dreaming
Defeated the Cult of the Night Yorb
Defeated the Night Yorb
The first adventuring party in living memory to survive the Last Stand-ard Exam with no party/proctor fatalities
*Updates with corrections as legendary statuses of individuals are verified
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Riz has spent this whole season, struggling so much and trying so hard to squeeze blood from a stone, to be in a dozen places at once, to stay afloat, to secure his future, to save the world (again), barely having time to spend with his mom and literally having to be in hell so he can have a few blessed minutes to chat with his murdered father about work (which yes, is an act of love when a Gukgak is doing it but God, he's so tired).
And Kipperlilly is watching this kid, who is taking stress tokens for his friends even though he's at capacity himself, whose blood is more coffee than anything else at this point because you can't solve problems when you're asleep, who signed up for an exam with a 100% mortality rate for lack of other viable options, and saying to herself, "You lucky bastard. It's not fair."
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Ok here's an updated timeline of the Rat Grinders based on the new info we got this episode:
Freshman Year
On the first day of classes Kipperlily and the others meet and form their adventuring party. Kipperlily comes up with the name the High Five Heroes.
Kipperlily excels academically, but the High Five Heroes only go on easier adventures, presumably to ensure they will succeed rather than fail at something challenging.
Ruben is primarily an acoustic/soft rock musician.
Kipperlily begins to have childish rage and resentment towards Riz and the other Bad Kids, which start out petty but gradually grow in intensity over the next couple years.
Sophomore Year
An increase in hostility, one of the first meetings Kipperlily has this year is being jealous that Riz's dad was killed by Kalvaxus, that if a person has suffered immense magical hardship it is an unfair advantage in adventuring.
Kipperlily tries to find evidence of conspiracy with her parents and is enraged that they are boring.
A week after spring break the High Five Heroes go on their first quest to the mountains of chaos, chaperoned by Jace Stardiamond.
After this, the High Five Heroes seem to undergo a shift where their rage is amplified. Kipperlily's counselor files become much more venomous towards the Bad Kids, Ruben shifts to emo music, etc.
At some point after this Ivy and Oisin propose changing the name to the Rat Grinders. Kipperlily opposes this and Lucy is on her side, but Ruben votes against her because it makes her upset and Mary Ann also votes against her but doesn't explain her reasoning.
A piece of paperwork is submitted for Lucy to change her god, but another piece of paperwork is filed afterwards rescinding that application, presumably by Lucy herself changing her mind.
Towards the end of the year, after grades are finalized but before classes are over thus avoiding the pass/fail penalty, Lucy dies in the far haven woods near Aguefort. Presumably, she could have been resurrected in service of this unnamed rage god, but chose not to. She "stuck to her guns".
Kipperlily's rage towards the Bad Kids has transitioned from childish to venomous, she "hates them".
Junior Year
At some point between the end of Sophomore year and the beginning of Junior year, the Rat Grinders specifically request Buddy Dawn join their party as a cleric.
At 8:01 am, the first day of classes, Kipperlily goes to Ashgrove to dig up the rogue teacher's grave, thus forcing her to reveal herself and granting Kipperlily a pass for all her rogue classes for the year. Presumably she was aware of the rogue teacher's grave beforehand (information only available in Arthur Aguefort's office) but waited until the start of Junior year so she could pass all her classes for the year.
Kipperlily announces her bid to run for student council president, with a platform based on equity, equanimity, and fairness.
Kipperlily asks Jawbone about the creation of Yes! and the events of prompocalypse
Her counselor notes become extremely enraged, with her straight up wanting to kill Kristin and being angry that she can't get to her thanks to Fig's protection.
Oisin, Ivy, and Buddy are seen at Fabian's house party during the first week of classes. Kipperlily is not seen but is possibly there invisible. The Bad Kids are asked to do drugs but decline. That same night, mephits steal part of a cloud rider engine kept in Seacaster Manor.
At the school assembly the following day Principal Grix reveals he was notified of students doing drugs off campus, meaning its possible the Rat Grinders tipped him off in an attempt to get the Bad Kids in trouble.
Ruben performs presumably some kind of ritual at the Frosty Fair Folk festival, with the other Rat Grinders conspicuously absent. Simultaneously, Yolanda Badgood falls dead in the same place where Lucy Frostblade died, after Yolanda had been made aware of Lucy's change in god and was investigating it. Yolanda also refuses to be resurrected in service of the rage god.
The Rat Grinders are seen at the assembly addressing Yolanda's death and how all clerics would be moved to pass/fail. Most look bored, Mary Ann isn't paying attention, and Buddy is unconcerned.
Kipperlily and Oisin get caught trying to sabotage the Bad Kids' Last Stand exam, and Kipperlily kills Buddy. Ten minutes after the Bad Kids plane shift away, Buddy is revived by an unknown figure and he pledges his allegiance to the rage god.
Now the Rat Grinders are scheduled for another trip to the Mountains of Chaos and are on complete lockdown, hiding all of them from Adaine's divination magic.
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finding out that people either choose to be consumed by the rage god or die makes lucy frostblade all the more tragic to me. like jesus this kid had to decide between the fire that warmed her in the dark and death and she chose to die.
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They optimized the hell out of that fight. Well done intrepid heroes!
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ok but all the bad kids were so strategic and effective in the last stand. i know gorgug's crits and fig's spells were huge but everyone really played to the best of their class. look here for the questions and killing blows.
adaine's spell usage was super effective--the mephits granting advantage and blinding opponents. the scatter to get the melee fighters where they're the most effective. using mirror image and her bonus action divination cantrips to not get hit. the use of the portents was excellent--keeping gorgug from taking huge damage from the purple worm and allowing fig to crit on the wyvern enhanced both of their strategy immensely. she split the difference between damage and utility very well.
kristen's bless let the melee attacks hit when they would have missed and she held that concentration the entire time, while intermittently healing and reducing the number of enemies they had to face (skeletons & manticore) and getting out of the way where she wouldn't be targeted. if she hadn't been moved to the side by buddy no one would have caught kipperlilly. absolutely critical support casting. ally really took a lot from playing margaret and applied it here.
fig, despite feeling insecure about her melee attacks, did a ton with her melee cantrip/smite combos (insane) and ambient spirit guardians. by moving around the battlefield strategically and drawing attention as the fake proctor she dealt with the smaller enemies (jellies, stirges, rust monsters, mimic) and actively took down the shrimp dragon, wyvern, and pentacorn.
riz went the other direction; hiding and using the extra action from haste to get sneak attack multiple times in the round. his sneak attacks really served to whittle away at high hp counts when the bad kids had to split focus. plus the clutch defeat of the roper and umber hulk was excellent.
fabian wasn't critting as often as gorgug, but he followed a similar strategy to fig; where she drew attention and killed enemies with AOE and melee, fabian drew attention from single combatants and dealt with them effectively: he practically soloed the hydra and roper with assistance from riz and kept the umber hulk and crab man off of his allies as the final wave converged.
gorgug thistlespring. the crit king. initially he was doing big damage in a similar strategy to riz; he got huge hits on the gorgon and shrimp dragon before taking on by far the most challenging enemy, the purple worm, with assistance from adaine's attack spells. two full turns as the only combatant taking damage from the worm, while knocking it prone every single turn.
this was the battle of the brands for the bad kids, scaled for level 13 combatants. they put everything into this fight.
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Alright everyone complaining can chill the fuck out, they gave a return date
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In the wake of FCG' fate I've been thinking about death in ttrpgs, and how it kind of exists on three levels:
There’s the gameplay level, where it only makes sense for a combat-heavy, pc-based game to have a tool for resurrection because the characters are going to die a lot and players get attached to them and their plotlines.
Then there’s the narrative level, where you sort of need permanent death on occasion so as not to lose all tension and realism. On this level, sometimes the player will let their character remain dead because they find it more interesting despite there being options of resurrection, or maybe the dice simply won’t allow the resurrection to succeed.
Then, of course, there’s the in-universe level, which is the one that really twists my mind. This is a world where actual resurrection of the actual dead is entirely obtainable, often without any ill effects (I mean, they'll be traumatized, but unless you ask a necromancer to do the resurrection they won’t come back as a zombie or vampire or otherwise wrong). It’s so normal that many adventurers will have gone through it multiple times. Like, imagine actually living in a world where all that keeps you from getting a missing loved one back is the funds to buy a diamond and hire a cleric. As viewers we felt that of course Pike should bring Laudna, a complete stranger, back when asked, but how often does she get this question? How many parents have come and begged her to return their child to them? How many lovers lost but still within reach? When and how does she decide who she saves and who she doesn’t?
From this perspective, I feel like every other adventurer should have the motive/backstory of 'I lost a loved one and am working to obtain the level of power/wealth to get them back'. But of course this is a game, and resurrection is just a game mechanic meant to be practically useful.
Anyway. A story-based actual play kind of has to find a way to balance these three levels. From a narrative perspective letting FCG remain dead makes sense, respects their sacrifice, and ends their arc on a highlight. From a gameplay level it is possible to bring them back but a lot more complicated than a simple revivify. But on an in-universe level, when do you decide if you should let someone remain dead or not? Is the party selfish if they don’t choose to pursue his resurrection the way they did for Laudna? Do they even know, as characters, that it’s technically possible to save someone who's been blown to smithereens? Back in campaign 2, the moment the m9 gained access to higher level resurrection they went to get Molly back (and only failed because his body had been taken back by Lucien). At the end of c1, half the party were in denial about Vax and still looking for ways to save him, because they had always been able to before (and had the game continued longer it wouldn’t have surprised me had they found a way). Deanna was brought back decades after her death (and was kind of fucked up because of it). Bringing someone back could be saving them, showing them just how loved and appreciated they are. Or it could be saving you, forcing someone back from rest and peace into a world that's kept moving without them because you can’t handle the guilt of knowing you let them stay gone when you didn’t have to. How do you know? How would you ever know?
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Sometimes self care as a DM is taking a break to be your PC with 8 INT
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And we catch up with the Crown Keepers…
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I’m dying DORIAN????
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