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„There is another significant detail in Kleitias' painting. As Dionysus and the mule bearing Hephaestus approach Olympus, attended by a company of Silenoi and nymphs, the first to meet them is not Hera or Zeus but Aphrodite, who makes gestures of dismay. Robert inferred that in the version followed by the artist she had perhaps been promised to Hephaestus as payment for releasing his mother. Wilamowitz developed the idea: Aphrodite, he supposed, had been promised to Ares if he succeeded in his mission, but in the event it was Hephaestus who got her. This would be the background to the situation in Demodocus' tale, where she is married to Hephaestus but has Ares as her lover. … Timothy Gantz allows that Wilamowitz's theory 'would certainly explain a very unusual marriage', but points out that it 'creates … an awkward imbalance of logic', because if Aphrodite had been promised to Ares as the reward for bringing Hephaestus back, she ought then to have been given to Dionysus, who succeeded in the task. 'We might better suppose that Zeus authorized Dionysos to promise Aphrodite's hand if Hephaistos came back; thus, at the mere sight of Hephaistos returning, the goddess knows she is lost.'21 A similar compromise solution might be that Hera promised Aphrodite to whoever could induce Hephaestus to release her,22 and that Dionysus, having obtained her as his reward, then bestowed her on his new friend Hephaestus.” (M. L. West, The Fragmentary Homeric Hymn to Dionysus)

„At the center of the composition [on the François Vase], however, is a surprise: Aphrodite has come out to stand in front of Zeus and observe the arrival [of Hephaistos] firsthand. Possibly her special interest in the event stems from the assumption that Hephaistos is here, as in Odyssey 8, her husband, in which case her look probably denotes disappointment at his return. But it has also been suggested that Hephaistos has demanded her hand in marriage (rather than, as in Hyginus, that of Athena) if he is to release his mother. This last interpretation has, unfortunately, no evidence whatever from antiquity to support it…” (Timothy Gantz, Early Greek Myth: A Guide to Literary and Artistic Sources)

TL;DR: All the supposed „versions” people bring up when discussing how Aphrodite ended up married to Hephaistos in the context of the story of his revenge on Hera are conjectures made by modern scholars rather than being attested in any ancient Greek sources. We simply don't know anything substantial about that detail of the myth, full stop, and it's time people accept that instead of arguing about which variant is more correct.

#hephaistos #aphrodite

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Do any of the Ancient writers cast Eris as Hera's daughter? I know Hesiod makes her the daughter of Nyx (Night) but Homer presents Eris as a "sister and companion" of Ares, do other writers mention this? I think I read somewhere that Hera got pregnant with Eris by touching some enchanted flower... TBH the idea of Ares and Eris being some kind of "messy war twins" wins over me LOL

I don't know of any ancient source in which Hera is called the mother of Eris, and imo not even the sibling relationship between Eris and Ares necessarily implies that Hera was the mother of them both, common as this interpretation is. In Ovid's Fasti Juno conceives Mars after contact with a very special flower, but he is the only child mentioned and if a similar story exists about Eris' I personally don't know of it.

#I do think that Hera would be a very fitting mother for Eris tho #ask #hera #eris

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Does anyone have access to

Ares and Other "Mothers' Sons" in

Greek Mythology: A Structural Analysis'

Or does anyone know a free way to access it.

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Why do I almost exclusively hear about Ixion when the topic of people who were interested in Hera is brought up? Here is a more comprehensive list:

Ixion - the first kinslayer among mortals, purified by Zeus and brought to Olympos, where he proceeded to show his gratitude by trying to sleep with Hera: „For although he received a sweet life among the gracious children of Cronus, he did not abide his prosperity for long, when in his madness of spirit he desired Hera, who was allotted to the joyful bed of Zeus. But his arrogance drove him to extreme delusion; and soon the man suffered a suitable exquisite punishment. Both of his crimes brought him toil in the end. First, he was the hero who, not without guile, was the first to stain mortal men with kindred blood; second, in the vast recesses of that bridal chamber he once made an attempt on the wife of Zeus. … the man in his ignorance chased a sweet fake and lay with a cloud, for its form was like the supreme celestial goddess, the daughter of Cronus. The hands of Zeus set it as a trap for him, a beautiful misery. Ixion brought upon himself the four-spoked fetter, his own ruin.” (Pindar, Pythian 2)

Endymion - Famous for being Selene's sleeping lover, but according to a fragment from the Hesiodic Corpus he was brought to Olympos and fell in love with Hera, slept with a cloud shaped like her just as Ixion, and was sent down into Hades: „In the 'Great Eoiae' it is said that Endymion was transported by Zeus into heaven, but when he fell in love with Hera, was befooled with a shape of cloud, and was cast out and went down into Hades.” Epimenides of Crete has a slightly different account: „Endymion in heaven fell in love with Hera, and Zeus condemned him to eternal sleep”.

Eurymedon - One of the Gigantes, he either raped the young Hera or was her lover before Zeus married her, whereupon both Eurymedon and the son Hera bore to him, Prometheus, were punished. The story is attributed to Euphorion and is quoted in the Iliad scholia: „Hera, while she was being nurtured by her parents, was raped by one of the Gigantes, Eurymedon, and she became pregnant and bore Prometheus. Zeus, after marrying his sister and learning of the event, punished Eurymedon by throwing him into Tartarus, and Prometheus, under the pretext of fire, was bound in chains.” (Schol. ad Il. 14.295); „Some say that Hera, when she was a maiden, fell in love with Eurymedon, one of the Gigantes, and by him bore Prometheus. Zeus, knowing this, hurled Eurymedon into Tartarus, and on the pretext of the stolen fire, chained up Prometheus.” (Schol. T ad Il. 14.296)

Ephialtes - One of the two Aloadai, the gigantic sons of Poseidon who attempted to make war on the gods. According to the Library of Apollodoros, „Ephialtes paid amorous attention to Hera, as did Otos to Artemis.”

Typhoeus - Zeus's greatest adversary, for whose birth Hera is sometimes responsible. In the Dionysiaca of Nonnos, he plans to take Hera as his wife after his defeat of Zeus: „Kronion also shall lift the spinning heavens of Atlas, and bear the load on weary shoulders – there shall he stand, and hear the song at my wedding, and hide his jealousy when I shall be Hera’s bridegroom.”

#I didn't add Porphyrion to the list because Zeus made him desire Hera #but him too #hera

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„But the Bistonian women of evil devices killed Orpheus, having poured about him, their keen-edged swords sharpened, because he was the first to reveal male loves among the Thracians and did not recommend love of women. The women cut off his head with their bronze and straightaway they threw it in the sea with his Thracian lyre of tortoiseshell, fastening them together with a nail, so that both would be borne on the sea, drenched by the grey waves.” (Phanocles, Fragment 1)

#yay #thanks! #phanocles #fragments

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you know I am kinda surprised how recent Artemis reputation as a Kourotrophos is the earliest mention I could find is in Aeschylus, suppliant women which 5th century? Stephanie Lynn Budin Also argues that it’s recent

I mean, I wouldn't really call the 5th century BCE recent, but I get what you're saying. Couldn't she have been considered a kourotrophos in cult before she was presented as such in literature though?

#I'll have to read Budin's Artemis book again #ask #artemis

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Natural 'Love Remedies' in the lanscapes of ancient greek myths. Part I: The White Rock

Sorry for the long post in advance, there are too many references and too much scholarly discussion to make a short snappy post. I abridged as much as I could :)

The White Rock is first mentioned in passing in the Odyssey, as part of the westward journey that the shades of the suitors undertake as they're led to to the underworld:

And they passed by the streams of Okeanos and the White Rock [Λευκάδα πέτρην] and past the Gates of the Sun and the District of Dreams. (Od. 24. 11-12)

This passage has at first glance little thematic relevance to the rest of the attestations to come (if you're interested in theories see further reading below), but I'd be remiss not to mention this first source for a "White Rock". The rest or these sources refer to the White Rock specifically of the island of Leukas (the Leukadian Rock), which was said to have the property of relieving the lovesick from their passion. According to Menander (in Fragment 258 quoted in Stabo's Geography):

It contains the temple of Apollo Leucatas, and also the 'Leap', which was believed to put an end to the longings of love. As Menander says, "Where Sappho is said to have been the first, when through frantic longing she was chasing the haughty Phaon, to fling herself with a leap from the far-seen rock, calling upon thee in prayer, O lord and master". Now although Menander says that Sappho was the first to take the leap, those who are better versed than he in antiquities say that it was Cephalus, the son of Deïoneus, who was in love with Pterelas. (Strab. 10.2.9)

Strabo is presumably quoting Menander's lost play The Leukadia. Unrelated to love but still interesting, Strabo continues:

It was an ancestral custom among the Leucadians, every year at the sacrifice performed in honor of Apollo, for some criminal to be flung from this rocky look-out for the sake of averting evil, wings and birds of all kinds being fastened to him, since by their fluttering they could lighten the leap, and also for a number of men, stationed all round below the rock in small fishing-boats, to take the victim in, and, when he had been taken on board* (alternatively: resuscitated), to do all in their power to get him safely outside their borders. (Strab. 10.2.9 continued) ~~ This might be seen as somewhat paralleling Pausanias 10.32.6 for those who are curious.

According to Wilamowitz (again see further reading below), Menander chose for his play a setting that was known for its exotic cult practice involving a white rock, and conflated it in the quoted passage with a literary theme likewise involving a white rock. There are two surviving attestations of this theme, in which falling off the white rock is apparently a metaphor for fainting (due to lust and wine respectively):

One more time taking off in the air, down from the White Rock into the dark waves do I dive, intoxicated with lust. (Anacreon PMG 370)

I would be crazy not to give all the herds of the Cyclopes in return for drinking one cup [of that wine] and throw myself from the White Rock into the brine, once I am intoxicated, with eyebrows relaxed. Whoever is not happy when he drinks is crazy. (Euripides Cyclops 163-168)

Sappho's legendary (and unfortunately fatal) leap off the Leucadian Rock to relieve herself of her love for the handsome Phaon (a figure that deserves a post of their own) is found also in Ovid's Heroines:

Here, when, weeping, I laid down my weary limbs, a Naiad stood before my eyes. She stood there and said: ‘Since you burn with the fires of injustice, Ambracia’s the land to be sought by you. Apollo on the heights watches the open sea: summoning the people of Actium and Leucadia. Here Deucalion, fired by love of Pyrrha, cast himself down and struck the sea without harming his body. Without delay love turned and fled from his slowly sinking breast: Deucalion was eased of his passion. The place obeys that law. Seek out the Leucadian height right away, and don’t be afraid to leap from the rock! (Ov. Her. 15. 165–220)

Finally, according to the mythographer Ptolemy Chennos (know for his bizarre stories) as quoted by Photius in his Library:

Those who leapt off the cliff are said to have freed themselves from erotic desire. And this is the story that lies behind it: it is said that, after the death of Adonis, Aphrodite wandered about in search of him until she found him in the city of Argos in Cyprus in the sanctuary of Apollo Erithios. She carried him away [for a funeral], having told Apollo about her love for Adonis. Apollo took her to the Leucadic Rock and ordered her to jump off the cliff. As she leapt, she freed herself of her love. They say that when she inquired about the reason, Apollo replied that as a seer he knew that whenever Zeus felt desire for Hera, he would come to the rock, sit there and free himself from the desire. Many other men and women who suffered from lovesickness got rid of it when they jumped off that cliff. (Photius Bibliotheca. 152-153. Bekker)

What follows is a long list of people who are said to have jumped off said cliff, some surviving while others not (in any case, quite darkly, all were relieved of their passions). Notably Sappho, the most celebrated leaper, is not mentioned.

The fact that Zeus is mentioned as only sitting on the rock and not hurling himself from it is interesting. Nagy (see below) notes the similarities between the Leucadic Rock and the "proverbially white" Thoríkios pétros ‘Leap Rock’ of Attic Kolonos (Sophocles Oedipus at Colonus). He also notes the double etymology of "Thoríkios" as derivable from the noun thorós ‘semen’ (e.g. Herodotus 2.93.1) as well as of the verb thrṓiskō ‘leap’ (which can also have the side-meaning ‘mount, fecundate’ e.g. Aeschylus Eumenides 600), and connects it with one of the myths that is said to have taken place on this mountain:

Others say that, in the vicinity of the rocks at Athenian Kolonos, he [Poseidon], falling asleep, had an emission of semen, and a horse Skúphios came out, who is also called Skīrōnítēs. (Scholia to Lycophron 766)

Poseidon Petraîos [= of the rocks] has a cult among the Thessalians … because he, having fallen asleep at some rock, had an emission of semen; and the earth, receiving the semen, produced the first horse, whom they called Skúphios. (Scholia tο Pindar Pythian 4.246)

According to Bednarek (see below), in view of Ptolemy’s humorous intentions in his collection of weird stories, the story becomes a sort of "sophomoric riddle": What cure does Zeus have to administer "repeatedly" (εὶ ἐρῶν … ἐκαθέζετο καὶ ἀνεπαύετο), while sitting down, presumably alone and in secrecy, that clearly only provides a temporary relief, and provides an aitiological name for the White Rock, to free himself from his desire?

All this long-winded post just to make a fucking joke about Zeus having a wank. Worth it.

~~ Cape Lefkatas

Secondary Sources and Futher Reading (these are only the ones I mentioned in this post, apparently there's a lot to say on the subject):

Greek Mythology and Poetics, Gregory Nagy: Chapter 9. Phaethon, Sappho’s Phaon, and the White Rock of Leukas: “Reading” the Symbols of Greek Lyric. https://chs.harvard.edu/chapter/chapter-9-phaethon-sapphos-phaon-and-the-white-rock-of-leukas-reading-the-symbols-of-greek-lyric-pp-223-262/

Levaniouk, Olga. 2011. Eve of the Festival: Making Myth in Odyssey 19. Hellenic Studies Series 46. Washington, DC: Center for Hellenic Studies https://chs.harvard.edu/chapter/17-penelope-and-the-penelops/

Bednarek, Bartłomiej. “Zeus on the Leucadic Rock. White magic of an obscene passage in Ptolemy Chennos.” Acta Classica 62 (2019): 219–27. https://www.jstor.org/stable/26945053.

Sappho und Simonides, Untersuchungen über griechische Lyriker by Wilamowitz-Moellendorff, 1913

#omg #greek mythology #Leucadian Rock #white rock #Sappho #Phaon #Zeus #Hera #Apollo #Aphrodite #Adonis #Zeus why?!

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„Come, do for me A task I’ll tell you of, and that fine toy Of Zeus I’ll give you (when he was a boy With boyish ways in the Idaean cave, His dear nurse Adrasteia made and gave It to him). It is a well-rounded ball. … All its zones are gold, and round Each one of them a double seam is bound. Each stitch is hidden; over everything Is a dark-blue spiral. Toss it – it will zing Just like a flaming star.” (Apollonios Rhodios, Argonautica)

Ok this is cute, but seriously, how many Olympians actually got to be kids and have toys made specially for them by their loving nurses?

#some godlings get to play with cool toys; others get to live inside their father's stomach. Oh well #nobody's ever said life is fair #quotes #excerpts #greek mythology #ramblings #zeus #adrasteia

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"I am ruined, Mother," he cried, "I am ruined and I am dying. A small winged serpent stung me, whom the gardeners call a bee." But Aphrodite said, "If a sting of bee distresses you, how much do you think they distress, O Cupid, those whom you shoot?"

I don’t why but him calling a bee a winged serpent pisses me off for some reason

Oh my god, what a drama queen!

#eros #aphrodite

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I find it interesting how in the aftermath of the sacking of Troy, Athena at least in many versions shows some level of regret and punishes the Achaeans for their actions, while Hera still appeared remorseless and in the Roman versions continued to persecute Aeneas and the other Trojan survivors while Athena left them alone.

Yeah it’s pretty interesting

#not surprising though #Hera is pretty consistent in her feelings #especially hostile feelings #hera #Athena

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Can you tell me about the relationship between Themis and Zeus and Themis relationship with Gaia because she is her first oracle

I like this passage from Euripides' Iphigenia in Tauris where Gaia tries to get revenge on Apollo after he takes over the oracle: „But when he [Apollo] came and sent Themis, the child of Earth, away from the holy oracle of Pytho, Earth gave birth to dream visions of the night; and they told to the cities of men the present, and what will happen in the future, through dark beds of sleep on the ground; and so Earth took the office of prophecy away from Phoebus, in envy, because of her daughter.” This seems to suggest that Gaia and Themis are close, and they can even be identified with each other (like in the Prometheus Bound of Aischylos) or play equivalent roles (as in the birth of Zeus), but they can also appear on opposing sides as when Gaia menaces the cosmic order by giving birth to creatures like the Gigantes while Themis remains on the side of the Olympians and even fights in the Gigantomachy herself.

Aside from the aforementioned Euripides play where Zeus approves of Apollo taking Themis' oracle, the two of them seem consistently on good terms. They plan the Trojan War together, she advises him and Poseidon to avoid a union with Thetis and marry her off to a mortal, they appear conversing in the Homeric Hymn to Zeus. In some accounts she helped Rhea save him from Kronos and gave him advice in the war against the Titans, she is one of his earliest consorts in multiple sources (Hesiod, Pindar, Apollodoros) and they are usually the parents of Eunomia, Dike and Eirene, though sometimes the Moirai, the Hesperides and some nameless nymphs are called their daughters as well.

#ask #gaia #themis #zeus

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which parentage Is more common for the fates was it daughters of Nyx or daughters of Zeus

Daughters of Nyx, definitely. As far as I know they are the daughters of Zeus only in Hesiod's Theogony and in the Library of Apollodoros (where Hesiod is most likely the source), though even in the Theogony they also appear as daughters of Nyx earlier in the text.

#ask #fates #moirai

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On a frieze from Hekate's Hellenistic temple in Lagina there is a representation of her giving to Kronos the stone he will swallow instead of the newborn Zeus, and while Hekate's involvement in helping Rhea to save her child isn't mentioned by Hesiod or attested anywhere else, this idea could be used to explain (at least in part) why Zeus honoured her so greatly.

#ramblings #greek mythology #hekate #hecate #zeus

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She fights, however much a female can.

(Juno, I wish you'd seen - you would be kinder.)

She fights, but what man could a girl subdue,

or who would conquer Jove? As victor, Jove returns to heaven.

- Ov. Met. 2.471-5 (tr. S. McCarter, 2022) Callisto who is denied sympathy from everyone but ovid in this awful story

😭 I must say, Ovid's account of Kallisto is the only instance in classical mythology that ever really made me angry with Hera/Juno. That's a big deal and testament to his writing skills.

#this is so painful #ovid #metamorphoses #callisto #kallisto

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„When Zeus was fully grown, he enlisted the help of Metis, the daughter of Oceanos, and she gave Cronos a drug to swallow, which forced him to disgorge first the stone and then the children whom he had swallowed;” (Apollodoros, Library)

In all extant Greek mythology, this is the one and only account of Zeus (clearly an adult at the time) interacting with Metis before the Titanomachy, so it truly baffles me how often I see it claimed that she was his nurse or childhood teacher or mentor or whatever. I can't figure out why people are so fond of the idea of Zeus getting it on with someone who supposedly knew him as a child while being an adult themselves, but I have good news then because we actually have an instance of him getting it on with someone much older who knew him as a child (in one account at least), except it's not Metis but his auntie Themis.

#but funnily enough... for all that people love this reference from Apollodoros #they conveniently ignore how their relationship is portrayed afterwards in the same source #ramblings #greek mythology #zeus #metis #themis

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honestly Athena and Dionysus seem like perfect opposites while both are born from Zeus one is born from the upper part while the other in the lower part, Dionysus represents the wilderness and it chaotic nature and Athena represents civilization and its orderly nature,Athena rejects her mother but Dionysus embraces his and shows her great affection and Athena is a goddess with masculine characteristics while Dionysus is a god with feminine characteristics

Yep.

#athena #dionysos #ask

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On either side [sc. of the door] there were golden and silver dogs, immortal and unaging forever, which Hephaestus had fashioned with cunning skill to protect the home of Alcinous the great-hearted. (Od. 7.91-94)

Eustathius goes on to suggest that the adjectives 'undying' and 'un-aging' refer not literally to biological life, but rather to the durability of the rust-proof metals from which they were fashioned, and that the dogs were alleged to be the work of Hephaestus solely on account of their excellent workmanship. He does, however, imply that he knows of other testimonia to these hounds when he refers to a certain "silly story" that they were a present from Hera to Poseidon for his help in some attack against Zeus in the Iliad (probably that described at 1.396-406), and that Poseidon gave them in turn to Alcinous. - Hephaestus the Magician and Near Eastern Parallels for Alcinous' Watchdogs by Christopher A. Faraone

Love the idea that after their failed coup against Zeus, Hera is just like: "Oh well, we'll get 'em next time, here are some dope magical robot dogs my son made, just a little something to express my appreciation for helping me try and upturn the order of the cosmos, thanks bro!"

#lol #hera #poseidon