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I am once again asking that Adrien and Marinette just be besties and we call it a day

#miraculous ladybug #ml marinette #miraculous #adrien agreste #marinette dupen chang #ml adrien #cat walker #kuro neko #ml season 4

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Adrien Agreste has Clinical Depression

I'm sure this is a "duh" statement for some folks but honestly up until this season I was on the fence about this headcanon, mostly because I wasn't sure if there were enough symptoms. However, when I actually started going through the episodes and looking for specific instances, I found there was more evidence than I would have expected.

I wanted to get this theory/analysis out before the new episodes because I have a feeling it might change or confirm it, and I love speculating! In addition, I have had clinical depression since I was just a couple years younger than Adrien, and I find it really comforting to be able to relate to a character I adore in this way. Clients with depression are also the ones I most enjoy working with, so it's fun to practice my skills this way!

So, here I'd like to talk about how Adrien has clinical Depression complete with symptoms I think we have evidence of within the show, as well as my theory that he has always had it and that he was using Chat Noir to help distract from it, though in season 4 see that there are some cracks that need to be addressed before he can truly heal.

Disclaimer: I am a therapist, but I am not your therapist. Please keep in mind the triggers, including depression and suicide and PLEASE be mindful of your own health. If you feel yourself getting overwhelmed,please take a break and utilize coping strategies as well as seek help and support. In addition, this is just my opinion and I'm not trying to make anyone believe anything.

To start, what is depression and how is different from just being depressed.

When we define clinical depression, which can be sub-categorized as MDD or PDD, we are talking about a person having low mood and little interest in life or enjoyment, often paired with feelings of hopelessness, guilt, and shame. It's different from being sad, because folks with depression might not even feel "sad" per-say. I've heard some folks describe it as numbness or not sad and just "I can't be happy." In addition, their mood affects their ability to function on a daily basis, making life significantly harder for some people whose depression lasts a long time.

It's also different from something like grief, which usually happens in waves as a response to an upsetting event, like death or loss. Adrien has lost his mother, yes, but he is not grieving as his symptoms don't appear to happen for a reason exactly (And I know that you're thinking it's his fighting with Ladybug that's causing it but if you are willing to read to the end I will argue his fight with Ladybug is in part caused by his depression). In depression, these symptoms can appear gradual and get worse over time but they don't always happen for a reason (though stress, which again I will get to, can play a factor in making symptoms worse)

Usually symptoms have to present for a certain period of time(at least 2 weeks in the DSM, and it has to be persistent), but as this is a cartoon and time is meaningless I feel like we can make some exceptions.

Common symptoms of clinical depression include (DSM5):

Depressed mood (defined as feeling sad, empty, hopeless, irritability especially in children and teens)

Marked diminished interest or pleasure in doing things (also known as anhedonia)

Weight loss/weight gain/appetite changes

Insomnia/hypersomnia

Fidgeting more than usual or moving slower than usual

Fatigue and low energy

Feelings of worthlessness or excessive or inappropriate guilt

Harder to concentrate or make decisions

Thoughts of suicide

The DSM requires someone has 5 of these symptoms, with the first two considered mandatory for the diagnosis, and that they cause problems in daily life to be considered depression (And yes I acknowledge the DSM is flawed as hell but it's what I and most others are familiar with). There's also a bunch of other stuff involved so before I go into more details if you are reading this and think "Oh, that's me..." first know that I have been there and it can be scary but you can heal, just please seek help from a professional. This is why we're here.

Again, since this is a cartoon where time is arbitrary, we can ignore the number requirement here I think.

So, which of these symptoms does Adrien have?

I wanted to go through the show and show off specific instances of each of these.

1. Depressed Mood

Hopelessness - We've seen a lot of this throughout the season. In particular, I think Wishmaker showed some of the most obvious examples with Adrien being worried about his future and feeling like he didn't have a path ahead of him. Some of his reactions in Glaciator 2.0 also could be taken as hopelessness as he feels as though his feelings for Ladybug are burdensome and will go nowhere.

Irritability - People love to point out Adrien destroying chiminies in Sentibubbler but honestly this is one of the most obvious examples of irritability he's shown in the season. There's also Hack-san with his anger at Ladybug replacing herself with someone else. These are outward examples of irritability that are rooted in feelings of sadness and fear. He is afraid of losing Ladybug and not being Chat Noir anymore, and he is angry in response. Think of all the times you've been so sad and upset by something that it made you angry. It does not necessarily justify anything he did, but it does offer us an explanation.

Sad :( - There are some other instances throughout the series itself, thought we largely see Adrien when he is surrounded by other people or doing something that can occupy his thoughts. However, in quiet moments like when he's eating, he often sits withdrawn. It's hard to label these emotions exactly when this happens because Adrien is also an optimist (which can happen at the same time as depression, believe me, I am one of those) so his outlook in early seasons were largely positive.

In season 4, we are seeing a lot more moments where Adrien is sad and we the audience get to see him like this. It's worth noting that significant stress can be one of the reasons why we have strong emotional responses like the one Adrien has. In addition to feeling as though Ladybug doesn't need him, he is also experiencing cracks in his friendships, most notably Kagami in Lies, Chloe in Queen Banana, and Nino in Rocketear. This, compounded with his rising realization that his father has been mistreating him and his fear that he is not needed as Chat Noir could definitely cause him enough stress for depressive symptoms to worsen.

2. Little Interest in doing things.

We see this montage in the beginning of Lies that shows Adrien going through a bunch of his works as a model and yes we know it's not his favorite, but we also see him not enjoying himself as Chat Noir. This is odd considering one might think Chat is a way for Adrien to escape the banality of normal life. So to see him so obviously disinterested in this sort of things was alarming.

And yes, it's also because he misses Ladybug, but I would say she serves more as a distraction to help keep his depressed thoughts occupied. This is also why some people, teens especially, might appear "perfectly fine" when they're around others, because those social interactions serve as a source of distraction and provide important support for someone with depression.

So, when that support is gone, we see Adrien's mood diminish significantly. He even says it himself, "The only time I can have fun is when I'm with you." This, to me, serves as enough evidence to say he has anhedonia.

3. Little Appetite

How many times have we seen him not eating, looking forlornly at his food. Yes this is mostly in response to his environment, but I genuinely think we've seen more shots of Adrien picking at his food than we have of him eating it. His diet is restricted, but we rarely see him eating when he's alone. With others, again he can be distracted, but on his own he's not.

Weight loss would also, unfortunately get unnoticed or even worse praised given his status as a model.

4. Insomnia (maybe)

This is a bit of a stretch, so that's why a Maybe. In Sandman, while Mari and what appears like the rest of the city are asleep, we see Adrien awake.

Now this could be a matter of Adrien being up late studying or limited budget preventing them from making him pajamas, but it could also be likely that Adrien has a hard time falling asleep and suffers from insomnia

5. Feeling worthless/Excessive guilt

There are a few examples throughout the series that are implied. I've talked before about how Desperada hinted at Adrien's current struggles and arc, and I think it provides a great example of Adrien feeling worthless when he is Adrien. Here we see him constantly failing again and again to the point of near insanity. This is because he wanted so desperately to prove to himself that he wasn't worthless, not realizing that it's not him as a superhero that he needs to address but him as a civilian. Part of the tragedy of the episode was that he wasn't able to see then that being Chat was never a problem for him; it was learning to accept himself that was the challenge.

In Glaciator 2 we also see a lot of excessive guilt from being the one to make Ladybug angry. Yes, Ladybug did snap at him and get mad, but he wasn't mad at her he was more angry with himself and feeling excessively guilty. In reality, the true person responsible were the media who portray them this way and post pictures without advertising. This is what is considered inappropriate and excessive guilt because Adrien was not entirely at fault for the incident and his response of wanting to destroy every billboard to fix it was an example of how he felt responsible despite it (even thought neither of them remembered the kiss)

I've already talked about it here but I theorize the conflict in Kuro Neko is due to Adrien's feelings of guilt of being unable to help and feeling worthless as a member of the team. But, we shall see tomorrow.

6. Harder to concentrate/Indecisiveness (another maybe)

You could maybe say that Wishmaker was him being overwhelmed with all his options and no idea what to do or what to pick, but that could also be attributed to feeling hopeless about his future. One of the most common answers I get when working with clients with depression is that they don't have a goal or dream for the future, so when I first saw this in the episode I had some alarm bell starting to ring.

7. Thoughts of suicide

A lot of attention when to this moment in Guilt Trip, where Adrien appears suicidal. I think this was him finding himself burdensome, like he only causes other people pain. It plays on his excessive feelings of guilt, and as I see in many clients that guilt often tricks them into believing their loved ones are better off without them.

One might also be able to argue that him giving up the ring in Kuro Neko is him reaching his limits and "giving up on life" since Chat Noir is a representation of his freedom essentially.

I'm not going to go into more detail here, but regardless to say if any of this is affecting you negatively please take a break and utilize coping strategies as well as seek help and support.

Here's the theory: Adrien has had Depression since Pre-Origins

I wanna be clear THIS IS MY OWN SPECULATION.

This might take some explaining. Depression can begin manifesting at any ages (current research is being done to see if it's even possible for onset to occur during preschool), but in my experience with teens especially a lot of signs start to happen early on in puberty, say 12-14.

When we see Adrien, he is actively running away in order to get out of his house. We don't see much of him actually, and there's little for me to analyze about him pre-origins because, well, there's nothing. One could argue that PV Felix and early reiterations of Adrien may have some depressive symptoms, but I am not familiar enough for that. If we ever get to see Adrien before he got his miraculous, there are a few things I'd watch out for. Does he look like he's going through the motions?

What makes me think it could be possible are his actions during the early part of the series. We see him enjoying all the new things he’s trying and gets to do, his birthday party and all of these new exciting things and I think it’s most important to note that folks with depression are not necessarily always experiencing a depressive episode. There are periods of good days in and amongst the bad days. Many things can contribute to fluctuations in mood.

For Adrien, it's likely that experiencing a new environment and meeting all these new people were, for the time at least, powerful enough to make his depression fade into the background for at least a little while. He goes gung-ho into everything, with a zealous for life. But once the honeymoon period has begin to wear off and new and old problems resurface, depression can return. But because Adrien has always used masking as a solution, it's the one he returns to here.

What's notable in Season 4, however, is that while we the audience can see Adrien beginning to break down and enter dark pits of despair, his friends and those around him do not. This I found interesting, because if he was always sunshine boy why is he so good at hiding his negative emotions.

My theory is that he is an expert in masking his emotions. Given that he suffered from significant neglect at least since his mom's disappearance, I think that when these depressive symptoms first began appearing his buried them deep within and did not want to share them, likely for fear of retaliation or disapproval from his father. Common comments I hear from parents and people who know the teen is "they're so different from who they were before. We want our happy kid back" however they don't realize that often times masking emotions is the first response we might see when depression begins to manifest.

Then, when he escapes to become Chat Noir, it solves as the ultimate form of Behavior Activation (the act of doing things to improve your mood). If being trapped in his room or playing the model son is a representation of his depression, then being Chat Noir offers an escape that sets him free. He also gets Plagg, the perfect source of constant companionship to distract him from potential dark thoughts. For the early part of season, Adrien had his depression managed pretty well even without realizing it.

But, as anyone who has ever had depression knows, it can come back.

Cracks started to appear as early as season 2 in Frozer I think and into season 3 with episodes like Desperada and finally in season 4 where his typical distractions and coping mechanisms aren't working. In Furious Fu he also finds out that he might one day lose Ladybug, and that means the careful safe place he's created for himself is under threat, and he's afraid of returning to the dark place he'd been in before becoming Chat Noir.

There's a larger issue here, and that is in part stress from the outside world and also cognitions about his sense of self and purpose. He also has become heavily reliant on masking how he feels, even to the point where he cannot share his true feelings with the people he loves most. In order for Adrien to truly heal from his depression, as opposed to the way he's been managing and distracting from it, is by targeting those specific cognitions and fears as well as learning to allow other people in to help share the burden (Interestingly enough, the same thing Mari needs to do).

This is why I wanted to get this theory out before Kuro Neko. I think that we will find more info about Adrien's feelings about himself. If he is Cat Walker, I also think he will be distraught at the realization that he gave up his only source of treatment. I think that is in part why he is willing to get his miraculous back because he knows he will be lost without it. But I also hope this helps him realize that more needs to change and that he can't just keep relying on being Chat Noir to make him feel.

This felt a lot darker than I intended (surprise surprise, this is depression) so I thought I would end on a note that I see a lot of success stories, and maybe share my own if that helps (If you don't care you don't have to read lol). I, like Adrien, worked really hard to mask my depression and emotions. I was also just always thrilled to have friends and people and things to do that sometimes it felt like "my depression was cured!" and as a result I ignored it and the negative thoughts and opinions I had about myself as well. Then, inevitably and just like Adrien, some stressor would occur and just like Adrien my depression came back with vengeance. I would even start relying so heavily on other people that I created relationships that were doing me more harm than good, and the ones that were good I was slowly ruining because I relied on them so much (Not saying this is Adrien now, but I could see why some of his actions may be linked to thoughts like mine).

I also had to hit rock bottom before I finally got help. And the first thing I did was share with people around me and get support from them. Being vulnerable and learning to let myself feel these emotions and not feel guilty about it was a huge step in my journey, and after that I was able to start advocating for what I needed to get better.

I think Adrien is at a similar crossroads now, and I have a feeling that once this rock bottom passes he will begin to heal stronger than ever, just like I and many others have as well. :)

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Idk y’all ik she meant well and all but I don’t think it was her place to yell at their parents like, I think at most it would have been better if she went to Luka and told him to do something rather than getting so outwardly involved in their family business. This also could have been a good Segway to get her talking to him again (which btw I think I was totally valid that she didn’t want to talk to him but the way she went about it was wrong) and it also could have given us a good scene of Luka standing up for his sister in that accord.

#miraculous ladybug #ml marinette #crocoduel #ml juleka #ml luka #luka couffaine #miraculous juleka #marinette dupain cheng

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Bro why does ml do Juleka so dirty every time she’s on screen like😭 imagine your walking home from school one day and your friend just takes you bike.

You’re excited to go to the movies with your friends for your birthday, but then they make it a combined birthday part for you and your twin (which is dope ig bc your brother is chill) but it’s really so that your friends can trick your other friend into talking to you brother who’s also actually his ex, and then she asks YOU to uninvite your twin brother from his own birthday, and when he’s there she asks you WHY YOU DIDNT UNINVITE HIM😭

And then you have a secret that you were really struggling with and you finally tell one of your friends in confidentiality but it turns out the other friend that he told to stay back actually came and TOLD THE WHOLE CLASS like 😭😭😭 THATS SO OUT OF POCKET?!???

#miraculous ladybug #miraculous #ml marinette #ml juleka #miraculous juleka #juleka my beloved #juleka couffaine

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Ion know y’all I think Marinette and Adrien should just be besties and we call it a day

#miraculous ladybug #adrien agreste #miraculous #ml marinette #ml adrien #marinette dupen chang

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I lightly critique the lack of other characters in miraculous (it turns into an analysis of Marinette’s perspective tho please help)

Bro Miraculous has so much going on and so many element that they’re just not using to their full potential it’s literally painful 😫 what I would give to see episodes that step away from Marinette and focus on other characters. Heck even if she’s still there it would be fine, maybe just a scene of two where everything everyone does DOESNT evolve around her like girl I’m tired.

We would get an Adrien episode and they still somehow make his d*ad (do I have to sensor that) mom’s anniversary about Marinette’s confession or something like!??!?! It really would have been so easy for them to just not?????

Or like when Luka lies to Marinette about knowing their identities it’s like,,, okay?? I just feel like the only scene we got to know about his issue with dishonesty is Truth but besides that it’s like,,, okay????? And even then it revolves around his halfassed barely hanging on relationship with Marinette and his absent father that he didn’t really seem to care about until then 😒

It doesn’t have to be a lot, but if and when (because I think they do sometimes and it’s usually a good time) they take a step back from trying to put Marinette at the center of a situation, the scene could be pretty impactful in character building and give the audience real stakes and better understanding of the characters.

BUT, something I’m an going to try and put into perspective, and though I don’t LIKE the way they’re doing it I think would be a good explanation, is that the show is from Marinette’s perspective.

Maybe to us Adrien gets more, “boring and perfect,” because that’s how Marinette wants to see him. In season one we can see Adrien joking around, throwing light shade, and being somewhat playful in his civilian form. It’s still in season one that Marinette’s crush on Adrien is still somewhat… normal. I saw normal lightly because of the stealing phone thing but I could consider that as more of her absolutely losing her gd mind, because she just accidentally confessed to her crush in a fairly… uncomfortable way. (Imagine getting a call from your shy friend who barely talks to you and it’s just “Heeeeyyyyy Hot stuff” I-)

But as time goes on her view of Adrien, and what she’s willing to do to have him, grows more and more obsessive. It’s less like he’s someone she wants to be around and maybe date, but more like an objective she has, but if she wins then the game is over. She constantly sabotages other girls who she considers as possible threats, willing to do whatever she needs to to eliminate anyone or anything that could possibly get in her way. She holds him at a distance, and idolizes him… which ties into my other post about her a G*briel being foils. She treats him almost the way his father treats not only him, but his wife, Emile. Willing to do anything to have them, and having a perfect image of them in their heads.

As time goes on Adrien is definitely more reserved, but I think part of it is because of his deteriorating mental state (part of it is his strain with ladybug but I think a lot of it is his father. We know Gabriel to be constructive but as the show goes on we see Adrien being able to go out less and less, and his scenes with his father seem more… cold. A bit anxiety inducing. Before Adrien wasn’t too scared to talk back to his father, as seen in Bubbler and Simon Says, but as of late he seems almost scared of him. Which is coupled with Hawkmoths growing frustration and fleeting hope for getting his wife back… do y’all see where I’m going with this) either way though there’s all this going on I don’t actually think he’s as reserved as he’s portrayed.

In emphameral (I- I’m not even close in spelling am I), we see after the reveal Adrien is more “open” he jokes around more and he’s more of his dorky chat noir self. But, the only person who seems surprised is Marinette. Which on the surface it seems “oh he finally revealed himself he’s happy,” but it feels more like Marinette is starting to see him for who he really is. And this leads to the question of, “who is he really?” And until we step away from Marinette who can’t see him as any other way without the identity reveal, when will we be able to find out?

In conclusion, I really do hope in future seasons they’ll move away from Marinette so we can understand other characters, their motives, and actually feel the effects of a broken status quo. Either that or I’m gonna ruin my own life by rewriting the series because I’ve been here since fifth grade and I’m like practically in college now so-

(If I get the energy I’ll probably just elaborate on this more in short little posts, especially discussing how I think Adrien has a lot more relationships than we’re shown, and by relationships I mean platonic since we’ve all had our brains melted into roses)

#ml adrien #mlb adrien #ml gabriel agreste #ml marinette #marinette dupen chang #miraculous ladybug #miraculous #ml analysis #adrien agreste #gabriel agreste #ml ladybug

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Though the writing for the show is,,, incredibly questionable I gotta give them a hand to crafting Adrien’s character.

I don’t know if it was intentional but they way they’ve characterized him from season one to now [aside from when they change up his character a bit to use as a plot device for Marinette (though it’s not just him they’ve done this to👀 maybe I’ll talk about it later)] it’s very well done and pretty realistic when considering the situation he’s in, the implication about his past and how he’s raised, and taking into consideration his social standing and personality.

I think I might make a more detailed post on this later (of course if people are actually reading these, rather a than a void I scream into a cave expecting an echo) but I’m just gonna babble a bit for now.

I’ve seen a lot of criticism of his character because he’s “boring” or “oblivious” or “a pushover” but a lot of the people making these accusations don’t really seem to be looking into why he may seem boring or why the way he does things seem so tame/insignificant to the absolute spectacle that is Marinette.

Adrien, believe it or not, is probably one of the most IF not the most empathetic character in our cast. Often this trait when we see it comes off as passive or “spineless”, his willingness to forgive others for their wrong doings a lot quicker than the other characters of the show. But this also means that he’s a lot more perceptive to the emotions to the people around him than people are giving him credit for (please forgive me if this is incoherent it’s 2 am and I’m on my phone), which is something that’s probably like super important in a city where having a bad day can lead to the Eiffel Tower being destroyed.

His handlings of situations that are,,, not ideal is eerily realistic. When it came to Lila’s lies he was willing to leave it as long as no one was getting hurt, because he saw what happened when she DID get called out, and in the end with her lies (before Marinette got involved) the person who was receiving the most discomfort was him. Of course as soon as he found out this problem was affecting Marinette, one of his friends, he then confronted her about the issue.

Adrien’s a character that tries not to make any unnecessary/selfish moves. When making a decision he considers the outcome, he weighs the importance of dealing with the issue, he tries to see how it’s affecting others, and he tries to find out a solution that can keep the most amount of people happy.

So yeah you can say he’s a bit “boring” because he’s not actively causing conflict, but I really think there’s something very interesting about his character that isn’t often shown (because even in episodes that are about him it somehow becomes about Marinette) and this season has done a lot of interesting characterization that I will try to do into a some point.

I was gonna keep going but this is really turning into something a lot longer than anticipated so I shall touch upon the rest a bit later.

#adrien agreste #miraculous #miraculous ladybug #mlb adrien #ml adrien

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Alright alright alright I wanna discuss something: does anyone else feel that Marinette and Gabriel Agreste are foils?👀

Like idk if it’s on purpose but they are really giving,,, they’re giving similarities.

#miraculous #miraculous ladybug #marinette dupen chang #ml marinette #gabriel agreste #ml gabriel agreste

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if you’re having a bad day, here’s a cute little marching band

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hiya! I figured id make an informational post about the little things ive noticed about being on testosterone that I found weren’t talked about a lot when I was starting my transition and even before when I was doing my research. I think that trans sexual health is an extremely important part of trans peoples lives (and that doesnt necessarily mean sex) seeing as the physical changes that happen during transition are often foreign to us. Sexual health keeps us healthy and comfortable in our bodies, so do your best to stay attentive to your body’s changes! As always, consult your doctor if you feel the need to. These are only tips ive learned from transitioning myself and from my doctor when I asked about certain things.

PATREON

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this is the purest video you will see all day, it includes not only practical advice on how to make cats feel comfortable but also:

the most patient and long suffering clawdia

bob ross, but a vet 

squish the cat

squish the cat, but with a towel

absolute unit mr. pirate

a little chubby but quite beautiful

please watch this immediately

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She got so mad she wrote song lyrics and edited a video and everything omg

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top 10 preminger moments

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Okay hear me out: Mafia au

#sk8 the infinity #the show would make so much more sense this way??? #sk8 langa #sk8 reki #sk8 joe #sk8 shadow #watching the show with that perspective is life changing lmao

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S.H.Figuarts ボディ♂♀の可動が凄く良くデッサン人形に最適です！画像はイラストのポージングを再現したモノ。脳内補完前程のデッサン人形ですが、細かなニュアンスも結構出せます。

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SCRATCH THAT I FOUND THE PERFECT AUDIO