Bunnyās Moral Crisis and Julian being Anti Judeo-Christian
I was positive I got the impression, during my first read of TSH, that Bunny was truly morally bothered by the farmer-killing. Then I started wondering, post-reading, if I was being too generous, and Bunny legit was just worried for his life and was angry that the group was keeping secrets from him (that second one is what Henry told Richard).
But I got to the part in my on-and-off listening to the audiobook where Julian tells Richard heās wondering whatās going on with Bunny. Julian says Bunny keeps approaching him and asking to talk about morality (particularly sin and forgiveness). Julian says heās getting concerned that Bunny may convert to Marionās religion. He asks Richard what denomination she is, and Richard says he thinks sheās Presbyterian. Julian is disappointed and says the only Christian denomination he can gracefully accept losing a student to is Roman Catholic.
Now this scene is interesting to me for a couple reasons. Firstly, it does indicate there may be more going on with Bunny internally than the Greek class gives him credit for. If Bunny is trying to approach Julian privately to talk about ethical dilemmas, this shows some level of genuineness in his questions (Julian also believes it to be earnest questioning). But secondly, Julianās comment about only finding the Roman rite to be a worthy foe is so, so interesting to me.
The scene shows that something more is going on with Bunny, but it also reveals that Julian hates Judaism and Christianityā making exceptions for people like Dante and Giotto. The thing thatās fascinating to me about this detail is that Julianās statements show the central theme of the whole book: that beauty is worth something if itās backed by things of substance (Georges Laforgue says this, and the same thing is said by Theo in The Goldfinch. This is a concept important to Tarttās writing).
Julian has a basic respect for Catholics, because Catholicism traditionally also has emphasis on art, philosophy, and classical aesthetic beauty. And, perhaps most importantly, Roman Catholics have kept Latin as the language of the Church and Vatican. The medieval Catholic Church was perhaps the biggest patron and commissioner of artists, and from the Catholic Church came Notre Dame, Aquinas, Dante, etc. Here, Julian mentions that the Catholics make āworthy foesā for the pagans, and what he means is that thereās all this aesthetic beauty and classical study within the Catholic Church. But itās key here that Julian hates other branches of Christianity. The scene emphasizes that the only thing he enjoys about Catholics is their classical history.
The thing I like about this detail is that it is a really specific bit of characterization to show that Julian does not care about morality or the search for truth thatās at the heart of all religions and mythologies. Heās different from people like Aquinas because he does not see human art and language as a means to articulate and pay homage oneās moral beliefs. He sees art/language as the highest good in and of itself. Once you remove the classical aspects of Catholicism, Julian does not care. And we see this because of his apparent disdain for Protestants and Jews.
I guess I like how Donna Tartt understands her own theme and can show how itās applicable so naturally. We get a lot of hints about how closed-minded and shallow Julian actually is before we get to the end of the book where itās confirmed.
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if i knew how to code and shit id make this a custom animated cursor on my blog
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While I do completely get that it makes thematic sense for Josh to just have the Wendigo end and death, I think takes about this can get over-the-top in tone. Like dang, Iāve run into people who act like youāre not literary if you wish Josh could be saved (I would honestly like that as a VERY hard-to-earn thing). I even saw a take that people who do āJosh livesā AUs are ābad readers.ā Thatās a wild leap.
The devs have said that Until Dawn is ultimately Joshās tragedy.
But they have ALSO said they really enjoy looking at takes on āJosh lives.ā Josh having a bad end is not some sacred thing.
i saw a post saying something about how josh being unsavable is because the story is supposed to be a tragedy and i do see the vision but i would like to argue that even if he is rescued with the others its still not a happy ending. like he's probably gonna have some kind of legal trouble on his hands and i could see the police thinking his friends are covering for him by saying there are monsters so he's probably getting in trouble AND realistically he would've lost most of his friends and it wouldn't be the same again. not to mention the possiblility of him being institutionalized- in every ending he would end up alone.
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Until Dawn fan theory (development theory about the gun-and-saw trap)
Okā¦. Hear me out. I want to get my thoughts straight before I post something similar on Reddit.
I am wondering if Chris initially was not going to have the option to actually fire at Ashley. And Iām wondering if ādo nothingā is meant to be the most ācorrectā decision.
A few months ago, I was trying to figure out why the fallout of the gun-and-saw trap scene was so weird. I started wondering if Chris had ever actually shot the gun. It actually makes no sense that he did. I looked at these things:
Thereās no animation for him actually doing it. The gun gets aimed then the screen goes red with the gun shot effect.
No matter what, Mike and Sam can hear Chris telling Ashley heās still deciding when they break into the room.
Chris is always surprised that the gun has blanks when he tries to shoot the Psycho. If heās already tried to kill himself or Ash, he shouldnāt be surprised.
Chrisās choice is NEVER brought up by anyone even once. Nothing in the actual dialogue refers to him shooting Ash OR himself. (Josh mocks Chris for attempting to shoot Ashley in the face, but that dialogue is actually NOT tied to Chris making the choice to kill her. Itās tied to him aiming at her first. If Chris aims at himself but then shoots Ashley, this dialogue doesnāt happen which is actually so weird. Of course, Ashleyās behavior changes if he did. Thereās no kiss, and she locks him out. But letās note one thing: Ashleyās flashback when she kills Chris also doesnāt show him shooting. It shows her reaction to him aiming at her, even if that didnāt happen).
Thereās also the fact that blanks will still kill you at close range, but itās also possible weāre just supposed to accept that blanks are harmless in this world.
Now, after taking time to think and read moreā I get that he is meant to have fired even if it makes no sense. The trophy says he did and so did the devs in their Halloween stream.
But Iām not done thinking about this.
My next thought was that the scene acts as though ādo nothingā is the ācanonā choice here. The story proceeding from this scene just behaves as if he did nothing, even if he fired already. Iāve seen people point out holes in this scene that Iāve already addressed above. BUT these largely check out if the player did nothing. Chrisās āI canāt decideā dialogue then makes sense. Him shooting at the Psycho makes sense. Nobody giving him shit for shooting Ashley or praising him for shooting himself makes sense.
To further this thoughtā the totem attached to this scene ALSO indicates the player should do nothing. We get a guidance totem of Chris putting the gun on the table.
So thatās where I am with this. The whole scene behaves:
like aiming at Ashley was really bad. Itās given an odd amount of narrative attentionā in comparison with Chris ACTUALLY having shot her. Again, of course, him actually doing so triggers the death scene. But it was always funky to me that we have Joshās dialogue and Ashleyās flashback only referring to the aim.
like Chris never shot. Thereās no indication he did after you make the choice. So many things proceed like he did nothing. The totem tells you to do nothing even though Chris shooting himself also saves him.
So we come to my main point. I had a theory that, originally, Chris could only aim at Ashley but not shoot her after, and that, for some reason, the story was meant to lean into ādo nothing.ā
I stopped thinking about this theory for a while until I was just browsing through more PS3 footage, as one does. And saw this:
Here, Chris picks up the gun and thereās no initial aim option. Ashley just gives the āit should be meā dialogue. Then we have the following options: AIM AT ASHLEY or SHOOT.
Oh my gosh guys. Iām justā THIS COMPLETELY SUPPORTS MY THEORY FROM MONTHS AGO which I deleted off of Reddit because I got self conscious about it being wrong. I mean, I still donāt think this proves anything. Of course, I canāt know for sure because I canāt find a build where Chris does aimā but it looks like there was only a choice to aim at Ashley or fire at Chris. In any case, Ashleyās āit should be meā dialogue does not seem determinate. She just says it whereas thatās attached to a choice in the final game. Here, it looks like there is just one choice and itās this.
Final thoughts:
Iām actually not sure how there initially being no option to actually shoot Ashley fits with all this emphasis that Chris should do nothing. I think there are still dev conversations that happened that I donāt know about, obviously.
I was thinking about when and why this was changed. The easiest answer is thatā¦ itās way lame for Ashley to kill Chris over him just aiming at her. If he actually fired, her not opening the door is less petty (thoughā¦. Ugh I hate that scene either way).
Another thing to point out is that, in a Halloween stream, a dev mentioned that the gun trap was VERY hard to get right and took a lot of their energy. It seems as though they tried lots of directions with it and filmed different things.
If you have any other helpful info on this, tell me!! Iād like to post this on my theory account on Reddit but Iād love to talk it out with people more.
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Afterword.
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Iāve written fanfic for a few fandoms. And every time I get a compliment, my heart swells with joy and my head explodes with serotonin. But thereās like an extra hit of glee when Iām complimented on a The Secret History one shot. Because the person commenting has read The Secret History.
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I haaaaaate what TikTok is doing to the way we consume media.
Someone said Jess is one of the most well-written characters in *Until Dawn*, and that this is shown by her number of TikTok videos. ITāS FAN CAMS, GUYS. Jess does not have a lot of engagement because people are writing video essays about her (What would a video essay about Jess even say after ten minutes? Youād have to talk about the process of creating her character which has some interesting points. But her story lore? Barely enough for a video.) Sheās prime for girl boss fan cams. But she and Matt are the most under-developed characters in the game.
Josh has way less TikTok engagement yet he is at the center of the story. He is psychoanalyzed between every chapter. He is the ONLY CHARACTER whose family we actually get lore, designs, and names for. Not to mention that his sister is VERY lore relevant and that splashes onto him, and heās the antagonist of a whole story arc.
TikTok is going to be the death of me. Itās not even likeā I hate seeming like Iām just shitting on Jess. Iām not. Sheās fine! Iām not saying itās weird to find Jess really appealing and enjoyable and like her best as a character. But the fact that weāre measuring the story value of a character in *number of fan cams* is nutso. This is like the person who said Emily is an overall main character due to her number TikTok vids.
Iām so tired of the clock app. Every opinion that escapes the clock app and makes it into my lap is so odd.
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Me, tears streaming down my face because Chris is fighting for his life and if he dies, itās my fault: āHell yeah I love this game.ā
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obsessed with them
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Todd?!!!!???? Knox????!!!?
Here for the The Dead Poet Society x The Tortured Poets Department crossover.
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whenever i'm trying to talk myself out of buying something i don't need i always hear my old russian professor's voice echoing in my head: "WHAT??? WILL YOU DIE THE RICHEST MAN IN THE GRAVEYARD?" and then i make an unwise financial decision
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Ok more listens to THE TORTURED POETS DEPARTMENT. Here are some thoughts.
Praises:
Lyrics š¤š¤ I know that the lyrics are polarizing, from what Iāve been seeing, but I like the metaphors and strong imagery.
The vibes are relaxing and thoughtful
This album continues on with the things I loved about Folklore and Evermore (though I donāt think anything will ever, ever top Evermore) while being still different.
Criticism
Too many songs and they start to sound similar. I generally am opposed to the criticisms that Taylor Swiftās music all sounds the same, because her whole thing is dabbling in new themes. I feel like I can really articulate the differences. That said, TTPD has 31 songs, and I love a lot of them but some of them just blend. It feels like she took a book of poetry sheād written and put it all to music, and some songs were excellent and some were just kind of there. Maybe Iām just overwhelmed.
I wish certain things had been more subtle. For example, spelling out Kim Kardashianās name in caps in āthanK you aIMeeā felt very inelegant.
Anyway, people are always really surprised when I actually talk about liking Taylor Swift. I guess I donāt give that off lol. I had her first album as a kid. I loved her at debut and have nostalgia. I was very into her music until Reputation and Lover. I did not like either of those albums aside from a few songs (āDelicateā and āCornelia Streetā š¤). And basically I was over her. But I ended up getting Evermore to listen to during like one of the most emotionally confusing years of my life, and it was the exact music I loved and needed then. I went back and listened to Folklore and liked it. So I was back full force. Evermore just means that much to me.
Midnights and TTPD both get good marks from me. Itās not the same emotional shot-in-the-head, but both are good. I liked the lyrics better in TTPD, but Midnights had more variation.
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Uh, hello! Taylor Swiftās THE TORTURED POETS DEPARTMENT: The Anthology is great?! Holy hatā the lyric-writing is so pretty. She crushed it.
I canāt stop thinking about āThe Albatrossā and its possible allusions to Rime of the Ancient Mariner and the way the chorus flips. Pure magic.
And thatās before I got emotional to āI Hate it Here.ā
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"What do you want for your birthday"
"Whatever possessed Donna Tartt when she wrote The Secret History"
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girls donāt want boys. girls want to know what henry whispered to camilla.
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Another āØļøWORK IN PROGRESSāØļø cause I can't bring myself to finish anything lately
It looks better in my head and I WILL make it look better
I just have to gather some stamina...
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